From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 01:38:33 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:38:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! In-Reply-To: <-2147439724726695908@unknownmsgid> References: <9DA9DDA0D0CA44ED9A9B12757DEE85BC@Gloria> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817CCC@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7DE54E85AAAE43788A0F0C27AF250FDE@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B005DBF304B4B0FAEB09BF85397FCF0@BrandonsLaptop2> <-2147439724726695908@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <016f01cd87e2$805c8c80$8115a580$@gmail.com> Hi Bryce, I couldn't have said it better myself! We've only just finished the first week of my freshmen year in high school, and already I'm finding that what you say here is so true! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brice Smith Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 7:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! Joshua, Your inability to be flexible is hurting you. Why can't you download the book as an etext file and read with your screen reader? It might not be your preference, but you need to pass the class. You have various options for doing so but you will never succeed if you aren't willing to think creatively and problem solve to find a solution that let's you get your work done.. This applies to everything, not just schoolwork. You must learn to control the problem and not let the problem control you. On Aug 31, 2012, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Well, audio is all I can get, since Rehab won't help me get a Braille display. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf > of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Blio does not have anything but audio books to my knowledge. I loathe > audio books, so I've never used Blio. But if I'm wrong, I would really > like to know! > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Wow! > I'd be better off with Blio. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf > of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Hello, > I was kind of confused frankly. I guess it is because A, Kindle is not > accessible directly from Amazon and B, the kindle reader isn't accessible. > But other than that it is pretty easy to get HTML Kindle books. You > need to download both the converter program: > https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14968661/Kindle%20converter.zip > and the latest accessible Kindle for PC that I believe is: > https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14968661/KindleForPC-installerNew.exe > There is instructions in the zip folder, first link. Please let me > know if you have any questions. > Oh, and note that you aren't to redistribute the HTML files once they > are converted from the kindle format. They are only for personal use. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > With all due respect, Brandon, did you pay attention at this year's > convention? > Kendall is inaccessible! > That's why the NFB is suing Amazon! > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf > of Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Hello, > Kindle should have them, but you won't get the Braille or descriptions > for the math book. > Have you checked NBP or NLS? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Wasif, Zunaira > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 12:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Obtaining textbooks in braille is a really big issue for many of my > students. We should bring this to the NFB. Advocacy in this area is > necessary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > Hi, > Do you have a victor stream or something like that? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > > >> I don't have a notetaker to download the book to, from Bookshare. >> I'd prefer Braille, because of the graphs. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf > of >> Ashley Coleman [amc05111 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:00 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Hey, go to the Learning Ally site and see if they have it. You could >> also check bookshare. >> Ashley >> >> On 8/31/12, Joshua Lester > wrote: >>> I thought that I had my Anatomy and Physiology book, and my Medical >>> Terminology books, in audio! >>> I didn't! >>> All I have, are my Behavioral Health, and Healthcare Delivery books! >>> The VR people that Brailled my MedTerm book, didn't do what they >>> were supposed to do, so I'm having to get the worksheets, (which are >>> out > of >>> the >>> book,) E-mailed to me! >>> How am I supposed to find the answers to my A and P homework, when I >>> can't have an audiobook? >>> The people at Learning Ally told my DSO, that they don't have it! >>> The DSO won't allow my work-study to look up the answers for me, >>> from > the >>> Print book, so my mom has to do it. >>> There's a problem! >>> She can't see well enough to do it, due to the small print! >>> I'm tired of this discrimination! >>> Please help! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.c > om >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > ae > du.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm > ai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. > fldoe.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > aedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > aedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > aedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40g > mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sat Sep 1 03:22:54 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:22:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joshua, How is it that you didn't know you didn't have the audio books until now? If your DSS office is handling your book ordering, it sounds as though you need to get involved more in the process even if you shouldn't have to. You may need to talk to someone about getting access to paying some readers. It is harder to do this at short notice, but it can be done. You are going to have to deal with situations like this on the job in all liklihood. I don't blame you for feeling frustrated if you thought something was done that isn't, but since it is your grade on the line, you are the one who has to check on this stuff all along to make sure things are happening as you expect. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:58:38 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote: >I don't have a notetaker to download the book to, from Bookshare. >I'd prefer Braille, because of the graphs. >Thanks, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Coleman [amc05111 at gmail.com] >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:00 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >Hey, go to the Learning Ally site and see if they have it. You could >also check bookshare. >Ashley >On 8/31/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I thought that I had my Anatomy and Physiology book, and my Medical >> Terminology books, in audio! >> I didn't! >> All I have, are my Behavioral Health, and Healthcare Delivery books! >> The VR people that Brailled my MedTerm book, didn't do what they were >> supposed to do, so I'm having to get the worksheets, (which are out of the >> book,) E-mailed to me! >> How am I supposed to find the answers to my A and P homework, when I can't >> have an audiobook? >> The people at Learning Ally told my DSO, that they don't have it! >> The DSO won't allow my work-study to look up the answers for me, from the >> Print book, so my mom has to do it. >> There's a problem! >> She can't see well enough to do it, due to the small print! >> I'm tired of this discrimination! >> Please help! >> Thanks, Joshua >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 04:25:20 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:25:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joshua, 1. Call Learning Ally yourself and see if they have the book. Even an older edition of the book might work. If not, check BookShare. 2. See if the DS office can scan your book. If not, see if your college has any public scanners available, like in the library. 3. You can also hire a reader and pay them yourself if you have the funds, or see if anyone who is in a community service organization could read it to you for community service credit. Arielle On 8/31/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Joshua, > > How is it that you didn't know you didn't have the audio books until now? > If your DSS office is handling your book ordering, it sounds as though you > need > to get involved more in the process even if you shouldn't have to. You may > need to talk to someone about getting access to paying some readers. It is > > harder to do this at short notice, but it can be done. You are going to > have to deal with situations like this on the job in all liklihood. I don't > blame you for > feeling frustrated if you thought something was done that isn't, but since > it is your grade on the line, you are the one who has to check on this stuff > all > along to make sure things are happening as you expect. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:58:38 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote: > >>I don't have a notetaker to download the book to, from Bookshare. >>I'd prefer Braille, because of the graphs. >>Thanks, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Ashley Coleman [amc05111 at gmail.com] >>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:00 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! > >>Hey, go to the Learning Ally site and see if they have it. You could >>also check bookshare. >>Ashley > >>On 8/31/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I thought that I had my Anatomy and Physiology book, and my Medical >>> Terminology books, in audio! >>> I didn't! >>> All I have, are my Behavioral Health, and Healthcare Delivery books! >>> The VR people that Brailled my MedTerm book, didn't do what they were >>> supposed to do, so I'm having to get the worksheets, (which are out of >>> the >>> book,) E-mailed to me! >>> How am I supposed to find the answers to my A and P homework, when I >>> can't >>> have an audiobook? >>> The people at Learning Ally told my DSO, that they don't have it! >>> The DSO won't allow my work-study to look up the answers for me, from >>> the >>> Print book, so my mom has to do it. >>> There's a problem! >>> She can't see well enough to do it, due to the small print! >>> I'm tired of this discrimination! >>> Please help! >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 1 11:54:48 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 07:54:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As an individual who completed an undergraduate degree, and who is now completeing a masters degree, I have some advice for you. First, I would take a proactive approach and obtain information on your courses and texts well in advance. For example, if you are interested in the material for the Fall, you should start doing the leg work in April or May at the earliest. If you are doing leg work during the summer, when many are out or having strange office hours, it is good to go in to the department offices and discuss your situation to see what information you can find. Finally, in regards to obtaining texts, it always looks better when you (we) approach disabilities service offices with information on what we need and the steps taken thus far. Remember this, in all aspects of life (even on a job), there will not always be a disabilities service office. One needs to be proactive, thinnking outside the box, and ready, showing there work. Have a good day. Sent from my iPad On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:26 AM, "Arielle Silverman" wrote: > Hi Joshua, > 1. Call Learning Ally yourself and see if they have the book. Even an > older edition of the book might work. If not, check BookShare. > 2. See if the DS office can scan your book. If not, see if your > college has any public scanners available, like in the library. > 3. You can also hire a reader and pay them yourself if you have the > funds, or see if anyone who is in a community service organization > could read it to you for community service credit. > Arielle > > On 8/31/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Joshua, >> >> How is it that you didn't know you didn't have the audio books until now? >> If your DSS office is handling your book ordering, it sounds as though you >> need >> to get involved more in the process even if you shouldn't have to. You may >> need to talk to someone about getting access to paying some readers. It is >> >> harder to do this at short notice, but it can be done. You are going to >> have to deal with situations like this on the job in all liklihood. I don't >> blame you for >> feeling frustrated if you thought something was done that isn't, but since >> it is your grade on the line, you are the one who has to check on this stuff >> all >> along to make sure things are happening as you expect. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:58:38 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> I don't have a notetaker to download the book to, from Bookshare. >>> I'd prefer Braille, because of the graphs. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>> Ashley Coleman [amc05111 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:00 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >>> Hey, go to the Learning Ally site and see if they have it. You could >>> also check bookshare. >>> Ashley >> >>> On 8/31/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I thought that I had my Anatomy and Physiology book, and my Medical >>>> Terminology books, in audio! >>>> I didn't! >>>> All I have, are my Behavioral Health, and Healthcare Delivery books! >>>> The VR people that Brailled my MedTerm book, didn't do what they were >>>> supposed to do, so I'm having to get the worksheets, (which are out of >>>> the >>>> book,) E-mailed to me! >>>> How am I supposed to find the answers to my A and P homework, when I >>>> can't >>>> have an audiobook? >>>> The people at Learning Ally told my DSO, that they don't have it! >>>> The DSO won't allow my work-study to look up the answers for me, from >>>> the >>>> Print book, so my mom has to do it. >>>> There's a problem! >>>> She can't see well enough to do it, due to the small print! >>>> I'm tired of this discrimination! >>>> Please help! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From amc05111 at gmail.com Sat Sep 1 20:06:44 2012 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 16:06:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! In-Reply-To: <-2147439724726695908@unknownmsgid> References: <9DA9DDA0D0CA44ED9A9B12757DEE85BC@Gloria> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817CCC@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> <7DE54E85AAAE43788A0F0C27AF250FDE@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B005DBF304B4B0FAEB09BF85397FCF0@BrandonsLaptop2> <-2147439724726695908@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Joshua, It isn't nessessary to have a braille display to access the Etext. You're not always going to have access to an audio book so you should get used to using the Etext. Ashley On 8/31/12, Brice Smith wrote: > Joshua, > > > Your inability to be flexible is hurting you. Why can't you download > the book as an etext file and read with your screen reader? It might > not be your preference, but you need to pass the class. You have > various options for doing so but you will never succeed if you aren't > willing to think creatively and problem solve to find a solution that > let's you get your work done.. > > This applies to everything, not just schoolwork. You must learn to > control the problem and not let the problem control you. > > > On Aug 31, 2012, at 6:51 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> Well, audio is all I can get, since Rehab won't help me get a Braille >> display. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:45 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Blio does not have anything but audio books to my knowledge. I loathe >> audio >> books, so I've never used Blio. But if I'm wrong, I would really like to >> know! >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Wow! >> I'd be better off with Blio. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 5:25 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Hello, >> I was kind of confused frankly. I guess it is because A, Kindle is not >> accessible directly from Amazon and B, the kindle reader isn't >> accessible. >> But other than that it is pretty easy to get HTML Kindle books. You need >> to >> download both the converter program: >> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14968661/Kindle%20converter.zip >> and the latest accessible Kindle for PC that I believe is: >> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14968661/KindleForPC-installerNew.exe >> There is instructions in the zip folder, first link. Please let me know >> if >> you have any questions. >> Oh, and note that you aren't to redistribute the HTML files once they are >> converted from the kindle format. They are only for personal use. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> With all due respect, Brandon, did you pay attention at this year's >> convention? >> Kendall is inaccessible! >> That's why the NFB is suing Amazon! >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Brandon Keith Biggs [brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Hello, >> Kindle should have them, but you won't get the Braille or descriptions >> for >> the math book. >> Have you checked NBP or NLS? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Wasif, Zunaira >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 12:15 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Obtaining textbooks in braille is a really big issue for many of my >> students. We should bring this to the NFB. Advocacy in this area is >> necessary. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:11 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> Hi, >> Do you have a victor stream or something like that? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >> >> >>> I don't have a notetaker to download the book to, from Bookshare. >>> I'd prefer Braille, because of the graphs. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >> of >>> Ashley Coleman [amc05111 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:00 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! >>> >>> Hey, go to the Learning Ally site and see if they have it. You could >>> also check bookshare. >>> Ashley >>> >>> On 8/31/12, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >>>> I thought that I had my Anatomy and Physiology book, and my Medical >>>> Terminology books, in audio! >>>> I didn't! >>>> All I have, are my Behavioral Health, and Healthcare Delivery books! >>>> The VR people that Brailled my MedTerm book, didn't do what they were >>>> supposed to do, so I'm having to get the worksheets, (which are out >> of >>>> the >>>> book,) E-mailed to me! >>>> How am I supposed to find the answers to my A and P homework, when I >>>> can't >>>> have an audiobook? >>>> The people at Learning Ally told my DSO, that they don't have it! >>>> The DSO won't allow my work-study to look up the answers for me, from >> the >>>> Print book, so my mom has to do it. >>>> There's a problem! >>>> She can't see well enough to do it, due to the small print! >>>> I'm tired of this discrimination! >>>> Please help! >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuae >> du.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. >> fldoe.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > From herrinar at muohio.edu Sun Sep 2 20:22:15 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 16:22:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] food courts and counter restaurants In-Reply-To: <9D0140F8-CE42-4BF6-83F3-DAC909FAE396@gmail.com> References: <9EEEB32F499840C5BD5DAE001B2C42C3@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120812155653.01e15378@comcast.net> <170E9219C2164E71A3675D408B1467EC@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120812162219.01dcf628@comcast.net> <89714D9EB0C4417892E9707D9C3D1420@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120812170119.01c728f0@comcast.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120812173055.01c912b8@comcast.net> <9D0140F8-CE42-4BF6-83F3-DAC909FAE396@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Though I am a bit late to this topic, I would add one technique regarding the drink dispenser. Rather than fervently praying someone walks passed the fountain as I reach it, or standing around feeling dumb waiting on someone, I tend to ask the assistant at the counter a couple of very vital questions: 1-Where is the fountain located from our current position? About this question: I try to make sure to relate to them in the best way I can. 'is it in front of you?' ' 'is it to your left?' 'is it to your right?' This allows them to feel comfortable giving directions from the way they're facing rather than struggling to describe everything backwards. With their response, I am able to flip it around and obtain the location of the fountain. So if they say that the fountain is to their right, then I know that since I am facing them and the counter that they are standing behind, that it is to my left. if it is in front of them, it is directly behind me. Etc etc. 2-What drinks are on the fountain? This allows me to choose the drink I would like without naming a million pops before guessing one that they actually have. Once they are done listing, I pick one and then I ask the final question. 3-can you describe to me, using the ice dispenser as a starting point, which dispenser dispenses (insert your drink here.)? The reason I say ice is because this dispenser typically looks different, even if the buttons or handles pressed are identical to pop dispensers. The ice dispenser has to allow ice to fall through, which has shape and substance. This means that the opening has to be much larger than that of the drink dispensers, which only dispense liquid. So if I can use my hand, or, if you are nervous touching random things, a napkin placed over your hand, to locate the ice dispenser on the machine, I can then count left or right however many mentioned by the clerk. The only other thing about this that you might take note of and ask about is the location of lids and straws. Often you manage to obtain your drink alone only to discover that you still need someone to help you, because you cannot find the lids and straws. Ask this question before leaving the counter if it is a problem you face. I personally just check on each end of the machine, because typically, that is where they are located. One more thing regarding ice. Sometimes the clerk might have a dilemma when describing to you about where your pop is because a machine is so big that it has two or more ice dispensers. Ease their fears by explaining that you are capable of starting at one end of the machine and working your way to wherever you need to in order to get your drink. Some people are more independent than others about this and it is not for me to judge one way or another. I offer my personal preferences because it is my belief that whenever possible, and wherever possible, I should do as much for myself as I can. Not because others are unwilling to help me but because it is what is expected of the rest of society, and if I would like to be treated just like everyone else, then I should take responsibility for myself and act just like everyone else. Just my two-sense. HTH, Amber On 8/16/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Try doing a cane, tray,, and communication > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 12, 2012, at 21:16, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Ashley, >> I think most of us have experienced this frustration, to a certain >> degree. We all have our own ways of dealing with it; I'll tell you >> what I try and do because, mostly, it works for me. I'm not trying to >> shove "rebellious independence" down your throat, I'm not saying what >> works for me will necessarily work for you, but I am saying that I've >> learned I don't need to have someone there every step of the way >> guiding me. >> First, I like to hold my tray in one hand and my cane in the other. >> This takes practice, I'm still not a pro at it, but after learning and >> trying the technique for a while I've figured out how to hold a tray, >> a drink, and a cane all fairly comfortably. LIke I said, it takes >> some getting used to and it doesn't come over night; it took months at >> a training center for me to become halfway competent doing it, but it >> works for me. This does, however, mean I'm not taking somebody's arm >> if I'm doing it that way. Of course I have someone help me get my >> dang drink when I order (I suppose I could just randomly test all the >> drinks until I stumbled upon the right one, but I'm having a hard time >> fathoming why the hell anybody would want to do that), but I don't >> really have to go that far out of the way. In fact, most of the time, >> the person behind the counter offers to just take my drink and fill it >> for me; I usually politely refuse and ask the kindhearted worker to >> show me what button I have to push to get the drink I want. In the >> rare event the cashier just hands me my cup without offering to help >> (very rare indeed), I listen to where I hear ice clinking in to cups >> and walk over that way. Nine times out of ten, (maybe even nineteen >> out of twenty) someone is there and I can just ask that person to help >> me know what drink is what. >> As for finding a table, I often just walk around until I bump in to >> one with my cane. I can usually hear where people are sitting and >> eating, so I'm not just wandering aimlessly. If I can't find one (or >> if someone finds me first), I'll ask to be pointed towards an empty >> table and I'll walk in the direction I'm pointed until I find a place >> to sit. If someone decides to grab me and take me to an open seat, >> I'll either make a fool of myself telling the person I'm really ok and >> I can find it or, sometimes, I just ask them to walk a couple steps in >> front of me and guide me that way. I usually don't like someone >> taking my arm unless that person is a close friend who I know I can >> trust; there are, however, a few acceptions to this rule. (I just >> showed up to the airport with minutes to spare before my flight home; >> I had no problem taking the arm of a stranger because I didn't know >> the area and I didn't have the time to figure it out.) >> As far as asking for help goes, I do it all the time! Usually, if >> I'm eating a meal in a food court by myself and I'm done, I'll try and >> find somebody if I couldn't hear people throwing things away. (most >> of the time I can't; I'm not that skilled yet! :)) Anyways, that >> person could either be someone I hear talking at a table or someone >> behind the counter at a restaurant. I'll say something like "would >> you mind pointing me to the nearest garbage?" If they offer to take >> my trash for me, I usually thank them and let them take it. If they >> do what I asked and point me, then off I go, usually with people >> giving me directions as I go if I can't find the dang thing. (which >> is happening less and less, thanks to some fantastic training.) >> But, most importantly, don't stress about it! If you feel really >> awkward, chances are it'll show and the people around you will feel >> even more awkward in kind. If, however, you are confident and >> enjoying yourself, however you choose to do it, people will generally >> be more responsive and helpful. >> Oh, one last thing that I learned in training. (I feel like an >> idiot for not thinking of this before) If you aren't sure where >> someone is directing you, point to where you think it is. That way >> people will be able to confirm that you are right or just move your >> hand so you're pointing in the right way. That also works, sometimes, >> when people seem to not feel comfortable giving you directions. >> Simply point somewhere (even somewhere random if you have no clue) and >> ask, with a smile, "you mean that way?" Then, all of a sudden, people >> know how to explain it to you. >> I hope I'm not coming off as dedactic or self-rightious. I don't >> intend to. I guess alll I'm trying to say is I've found a way that >> works for me, find one that works for you (whatever it is)and enjoy >> yourself! That is, after all, the point. Right? >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 8/12/12, David Dodge wrote: >>> It makes a great deal of sense. However, I would argue that immediate >>> help >>> is rarely as valuable or enduring as that help which takes time. >>> >>> David >>> ---------------------------------- >>> David Dodge >>> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >>> English Major >>> University at Buffalo >>> 306 Clemens Hall >>> Buffalo, NY 14260 >>> daviddod at buffalo.edu >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, David, >>>> >>>> It is true, we do help when we are able, like by widening people's >>>> threshholds, and convictions, and expanding what is believed to be >>>> possible, yet, the ways in which we are able to help, often are not as >>>> immediate as the kind of momentary, on-the-spot,help from which we are >>>> likely to benefit. Does that happened to make any kind of sense?wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks, Carly. But, I would even say our chances to help others are >>>>> more >>>>> than just few. Everyone has talents and knowledge and we are >>>>> responsible >>>>> for using them to help ourselves and others just like anyone else. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> ------------------------------**---- >>>>> David Dodge >>>>> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >>>>> English Major >>>>> University at Buffalo >>>>> 306 Clemens Hall >>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260 >>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Carly Mihalakis >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Glad to see David's approach to giving, and receiving, assistance >>>>>> seems >>>>> a >>>>>> bit healthier. Because, it is true, Ashley, in cases in which we are >>>>> able >>>>>> to help which granted, are few, we do it gladly. When sighted people >>>>>> see >>>>>> the blind person struggling o do what he routinely takes for granted, >>>>>> instinctively, a first thing they wanna do is lend a hand. It's part >>>>>> of >>>>>> being a member of society. >>>>>> Fact is, you are lacking same access to the senses as everyone else, >>>>>> that's a fact. So, one would argue, there's nothing whatsoever wrong >>>>> with >>>>>> accepting help, once in a while. Remember, ol' Sighty cares not about >>>>> your >>>>>> motives for proving yourself by being completely, solo in this here >>>>> world. >>>>>> Dodge wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Try to feel grateful and not bad about asking people for help when >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> give it to you. After all, people ask you for help in different >>>>> situations >>>>>>> and you kindly give it to them too right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David >>>>>>> ------------------------------****---- >>>>>>> David Dodge >>>>>>> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson >>>>>>> English Major >>>>>>> University at Buffalo >>>>>>> 306 Clemens Hall >>>>>>> Buffalo, NY 14260 >>>>>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>>>> ****wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> true, I find other customers help me. I kind of feel bad about >>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>> though and like it when they ask me first. >>>>>>>> I feel by asking, I'm kind of obligating them to help before going >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> their table or carrying their food away. >>>>>>>> Oh, well, I need the help. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 7:23 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National >>>>>>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] food courts and counter restaurants >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, Ashley, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the personel behind the counter are >>>>>>>> too busy to help, other customers are often also >>>>>>>> more than happy to grab you a napkin or throw >>>>>>>> away your garbage./12/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi carley, In food courts, that is not always my experience. >>>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> where I live. Like you, I may plan ahead about the menu thing. For >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> drinks thing, they do help me if I ask for it, but they seem busy >>>>> and >>>>>>> I may >>>>>>>>> have to wait a few minutes. The staff are busy taking orders, >>>>> filling >>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>>> and taking money from customers. Often, they just seem too busy to >>>>> help >>>>>>>>> out; so, a friendly customer in line offers to assist me and I >>>>>>>>> take >>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> They read the drink options and I pick one I want. Some places >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> bottle >>>>>>>>> drinks and I find these easier. In this case, they can just hand >>>>>>>>> me >>>>> the >>>>>>>>> bottle as they hand me the food too. I'm glad you have found the >>>>> staff >>>>>>>>> helpful because they should be as an accomodation. Ashley >>>>> -----Original >>>>>>>>> Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 >>>>> 7:02 >>>>>>> PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: >>>>>>>>> Re: >>>>>>>>> [nabs-l] food courts and counter restaurants Hi, Ashley, If I know >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> be visiting a particular restaurant who has their menu Online, I >>>>>>> definitely >>>>>>>>> read it, selecting what sounds good ahead of time. If such a menu >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> available I just ask the folks behind the counter, or on the floor >>>>> to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> it. As for the food court, the host personnel who seat me, are >>>>> usually >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> than happy to help out by carrying, even getting the drink. After >>>>> all, >>>>>>>>> that's what there there for right? CarHi all, Food courts are >>>>> crowded >>>>>>> noisy >>>>>>>>> places. They hand you the food on a tray. But often the customer >>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>> to get >>>>>>>>> their own drink from a row of drink spickits. I am talking about >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> row of >>>>>>>>> them where the cups are at the end and the drinks are gotten by >>>>>>> pressing >>>>>>>>> something to release the liquid. So any tips on them? How do you >>>>> deal >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> these drink areas? Does someone help you? I suppose you could >>>>> memorize >>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> if you went there before. How do you find an empty table since >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>> hands >>>>>>>>> are full with the tray, unless you ask someone to carry it for >>>>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> Then, >>>>>>>>> how do you find the trashcan? Do you explore where the trashcans >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>> before >>>>>>>>> you get your food? Do you ask someone to read the menu to you >>>>>>>>> while >>>>> in >>>>>>>>> line, or do it beforehand? Some venues have their menu online >>>>>>>>> which >>>>> I >>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> if possible; other times they don’t. Next, how do you deal with >>>>>>>>> restestaurants requiring you to order at the counter and pick it >>>>>>>>> up >>>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> counter? A fast food place usually gives you the food right there >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> counter. You do not sit and wait. So that isn’t an issue. If I >>>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>> say, waiwait for fries, I do so right at the counter, as anyone >>>>>>>>> else >>>>>>> would. >>>>>>>>> Restaurants where you do this include: Johnny Rockets in some >>>>> locations >>>>>>>>> deli places such as Philadelphia mikes Fudruckers Corner Bakery >>>>>>>>> How >>>>> do >>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> find the counter and locate your seat? For me, I’m not good at >>>>>>>>> revreversing routes, and all tables look the same! I’m am >>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>> since I >>>>>>>>> may order at such a restaurant with a blind friend and could use >>>>> some >>>>>>> tips >>>>>>>>> on this. Thanks. Ashley ______________________________**** >>>>>>> **_________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/** >>>>>>>>> listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<**htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/** >>>>>>> listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>>>> listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****** >>>>> options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> carlymih%40comcast.net>> >>>>> nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%****40comcast.net>>>> org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.**net >>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________**___________**___ >>>>>>>>> **_________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> To >>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****** >>>>> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 03:02:55 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 23:02:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] turnitin.com In-Reply-To: References: <503bfed6.c4d5e00a.2e7b.ffffd283@mx.google.com> <5BFEF93116A945F5BD54B879D563265F@ZachlaptopPC> Message-ID: <000b01cd8980$9e785d80$db691880$@gmail.com> Hi Nathan and everyone, So it seems like this Turn It In Web site is semi-accessible, but could use some improvement when it comes to accessibility. For Nathan, Jackie and I are going to play with it once she gets the information for my teacher's account. Thanks to everyone who responded for your input! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Clark Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 4:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] turnitin.com Dear Chris, At Carroll Community College, Turnit in is a mandatory site to be used by all teachers and departments. So to answer your question I have used it but it isn't all that great of a site for Jaws users. Sincerely, Nathan Clark PS: how is high school mister Chris? On 8/29/12, Zach wrote: > I have used this and it is somewhat accessible. Am using it now for > freshman > > college literature. > > > > Zach Griego-Dreicer > Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com > Skype and Twitter: Chickerland > Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using > this > > email address. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:12 PM > To: NFB NABS list > Cc: jsotwel at carrollk12.org > Subject: [nabs-l] turnitin.com > > Hi everyone, > > Today was our first day of classes, and my English/Freshman Seminar > teacher informed us today that she uses the Web site TurnItIn.com to > turn in certain assignments, particularly long-term projects and > essays. Has anybody on this list used this Web site to turn in work > to your teachers? If so, how accessible is it with JAWS? If it is > accessible, how do I use this site with JAWS to turn in work? By the > way, in the event that this Web site is inaccessible, I've already > talked with my teacher and she gave me permission to email projects > usually turned in on turnitin.com to her. > > Thanks in advance, > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chicker > land.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gma > il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 03:59:48 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 20:59:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB Message-ID: HI ALL, ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? THANK U. DEB -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 16:46:09 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 12:46:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> Hi Deb, You might want to check the Arizona affiliate's Web site for the agenda. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB HI ALL, ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? THANK U. DEB -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 20:40:46 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 14:40:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues Message-ID: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> HEy, guys. I was wondering what games for ipod and iphone you'd recommend me to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. Thanks in advance, Beth From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 20:48:59 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:48:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Frustrated with school! Message-ID: <504517bc.0952650a.5082.788d@mx.google.com> You aren't wrong. Blio has nothing but audio, but I have found it to be a useful source. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. Sent from my iPad On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote > HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend me to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. > Thanks in advance, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 21:29:11 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 14:29:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB In-Reply-To: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> References: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not there Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 On Sep 3, 2012 9:46 AM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Deb, > > You might want to check the Arizona affiliate's Web site for the agenda. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > HI ALL, > > ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE > SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? > > THANK U. > > DEB > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:05:33 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:05:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Wordpress Message-ID: Hi all, I am trying to work with Wordpress, but it seems completely inaccessible for blogging purposes. The new entry page does not allow me to paste text into the text fields, and my screen reader gets locked within the edit fields. I tried saving an entry as a draft, but when I go to the draft, the page appears to be blalnk, and other inaccessible things happen to the point I have to close Internet Explorer. I will try Firefox, but would be interested in your experiences with Wordpress accessibility. Thanks, Antonio From freethaught at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:15:23 2012 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:15:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Wordpress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50452BFB.2070805@gmail.com> I'm happy to report wordpress looks and feels much better in Firefox. And best of all: it works. Antonio On 9/3/2012 6:05 PM, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to work with Wordpress, but it seems completely > inaccessible for blogging purposes. > > The new entry page does not allow me to paste text into the text > fields, and my screen reader gets locked within the edit fields. > > I tried saving an entry as a draft, but when I go to the draft, the > page appears to be blalnk, and other inaccessible things happen to the > point I have to close Internet Explorer. > > I will try Firefox, but would be interested in your experiences with > Wordpress accessibility. > > Thanks, > > Antonio -- Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. From amc05111 at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 22:26:44 2012 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:26:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Wordpress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, I've had these same issues with word press. I do not know a way to get around the problems there. On 9/3/12, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to work with Wordpress, but it seems completely > inaccessible for blogging purposes. > > The new entry page does not allow me to paste text into the text > fields, and my screen reader gets locked within the edit fields. > > I tried saving an entry as a draft, but when I go to the draft, the > page appears to be blalnk, and other inaccessible things happen to the > point I have to close Internet Explorer. > > I will try Firefox, but would be interested in your experiences with > Wordpress accessibility. > > Thanks, > > Antonio > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 23:04:16 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:04:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB In-Reply-To: References: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005b01cd8a28$723233b0$56969b10$@gmail.com> Hi Deb, It seems to me they should have posted it by now, if the convention is September 7-9. But maybe they're like Maryland can be at times, in that they, like us, take a long time to update their Web site. Since you are getting close to your convention, it may be a good idea to call your affiliate's President or contact him through the Arizona affiliate's Web site. Here is the contact information for Arizona, copied from the NFB national Web site: NFB of Arizona Bob Kresmer, President 9014 East Bellevue Street Tucson, Arizona 85715-5652 Home: 520-733-5894 Send message: http://www.az.nfb.org/contact Web site: http://www.az.nfb.org Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AZ NFB Not there Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 On Sep 3, 2012 9:46 AM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Deb, > > You might want to check the Arizona affiliate's Web site for the agenda. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:00 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > HI ALL, > > ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE > SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? > > THANK U. > > DEB > > -- > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40g > mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 23:07:48 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:07:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> Hi Lavonya, I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot of visual elements to it. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. Sent from my iPad On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote > HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend me to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. > Thanks in advance, > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 23:18:18 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 19:18:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006501cd8a2a$67ca40a0$375ec1e0$@gmail.com> Hi Beth, A fun game I found is called Hanging Free, which is an accessible alternative to the popular Hanging with Friends game, which is an online version of Hangman. I've also heard of an app called De Steno Games which is supposed to be accessible, but I haven't played with it nor do I know what games it has. I really wish RS Games would make an iOS app! That would be so cool! Speaking of games, I have a question. Has anybody played Words with Friends on iOS? If so, how does it work with VoiceOver? I downloaded the app, and it was reading the board to me, but I couldn't figure out how to move my letters to different tyles on the board or how to know where I was putting the letters. If the regular Words with Friends app isn't accessible, is there an accessible alternative to it? BTW, Beth, I haven't talked with you in a really long time, so feel free to Skype me when you get a chance! :) Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:41 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues HEy, guys. I was wondering what games for ipod and iphone you'd recommend me to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. Thanks in advance, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 00:08:16 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:08:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues Message-ID: <5045469d.04a9320a.02e6.60fd@mx.google.com> For you all's information, I have an ipod touch. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" wrote HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend me to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. Thanks in advance, Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo se%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 00:08:17 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:08:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues Message-ID: <5045469f.04a9320a.02e6.60fe@mx.google.com> For anyone's information, my Skype is um1um15. Chris, feel free to make sure you're added or if not, add me. My Jazzychic2 account was suspended by some bozo who destroyed it with abuse reports or something. I'll try your game suggestions. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" References: <5045469f.04a9320a.02e6.60fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007701cd8a34$5740cf10$05c26d30$@gmail.com> Hi Beth, Oh, OK. No wonder I haven't seen you online in forever! LOL! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues For anyone's information, my Skype is um1um15. Chris, feel free to make sure you're added or if not, add me. My Jazzychic2 account was suspended by some bozo who destroyed it with abuse reports or something. I'll try your game suggestions. Thanks. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" References: <017501cd8521$1e7e48a0$5b7ad9e0$@labarrelaw.com> Message-ID: <009b01cd8a36$cc0921b0$641b6510$@gmail.com> Her email is lblake at nfb.org. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:29 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Voting Lou Ann Blake at our National Center is our national HAVA coordinater and would be happy to provide updates and answer questions etc. Best, Scott C. LaBarre, President National Federation of the Blind of Colorado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 10:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Voting When I voted for the first time in 2004 (before Help America Vote Act, HAVA, went into effect) I was living in Arizona and I used a mail-in Braille ballot. I was able to complete the entire process independently and I marked my answers on the ballot by circling them with a pen. I may have had to sign something but my signature was never matched against anything and as far as I know, my vote was counted properly (though my vote never really counts in AZ, but I digress). Do any other states offer accessible Braille ballots? I think it's an awesome idea and was surprised that Colorado apparently does not have them. When I voted again in 2006, I went to the poll excited about using an accessible voting machine, but the machine was nonfunctional. My mother and I had gone to the poll together and I was comfortable having her fill out my ballot, so I did that to ensure my vote went through. In that year the voting machines were brand-new and I reported the problem to an NFB committee that was collecting reports about the successful implementation of the HAVA regulations. I have used the voting machines in CO with no major issues. I am shocked and exasperated that people are still having problems getting the talking machines to work even four years after HAVA went into effect. It is also disturbing that a poll worker would suggest who to vote for when filling out a ballot as a reader and it makes me worry that some poll workers might be altering the votes of the people they assist. It might be good for someone in NABS leadership or on the membership committee to contact someone at national to find out what is currently happening with accessible voting and what the major issues are. I agree an informational call about how to use the voting machines, and what our rights are as blind voters, might be helpful for NABS members, although this of course is not just a student issue. Nevertheless, young folks voting for the first time could uniquely benefit from this info. Arielle On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca wrote: > This website is very informative. The following link takes you to a > page where they have links to several laws relevant to people with disabilities. > > http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Laws > > In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. > ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854 > > > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca > wrote: > >> Heh, I mean Cynthia, sorry! >> >> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. >> ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854 >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca >> wrote: >> >>> I'm excited to see that other people support the idea of getting >>> involved but sad to admit that it's a problem. >>> >>> My story is this: In 2008, I went for early voting at one of the >>> designated places in Nashville. When it was my turn, they >>> designated a polling machine to me. Before I began the process, I >>> asked about assisted voting. Maybe I should have asked about >>> accessible polling machines? >>> Anyway, he just said he'd have to help me and that was the only >>> option I had. I turned him down and went through the process myself >>> (I do have some vision). >>> >>> It seems that the voting issues fall into a few categories: >>> 1) lack of knowledge of rights/responsibilities on behalf of the >>> voter >>> 2) lack of training and knowledge of polling staff >>> 3) lack of a functioning accessible voting machine on site >>> 4) difficult-to-follow tutorials/instructions for the accessible >>> machine >>> >>> For me, numbers 1 and 2 seem to be the biggest problems. How do we >>> get the word out and how do we insure that the people at the polling >>> places are trained and that there is a funcitoning machine >>> available? >>> >>> I like the idea about having demos. Barring that, would it be >>> possible to record a tutorial and post it online? Maybe by someone >>> who has used it recently? I've heard that the tutorial provided at >>> the polling place is often not straightforward or easy to follow and >>> that a blind user could do a better job haha >>> >>> I think we should at the very least inform people of their rights. >>> I think finding the federal law wouldn't be too hard, but some rules >>> vary state by state. I'm having trouble tracking down the >>> information for TN, for example. Anyway, here is the federal law (I >>> think). >>> >>> *Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act* >>> >>> The Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984 >>> generally requires polling places across the United States to be >>> physically accessible to people with disabilities for federal >>> elections. Where no accessible location is available to serve as a >>> polling place, a political subdivision must provide an alternate >>> means of casting a ballot on the day of the election. This law also >>> requires states to make available registration and voting aids for >>> disabled and elderly voters, including information by TTYs (also >>> known as TDDs) or similar devices. For more information, contact: >>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice >>> Civil Rights Division >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. >>> Voting Section - 1800 G >>> Washington, D.C. 20530 >>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY) >>> >>> >>> >>> *National Voter Registration Act* >>> >>> The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, also known as the >>> "Motor Voter Act," makes it easier for all Americans to exercise >>> their fundamental right to vote. One of the basic purposes of the >>> Act is to increase the historically low registration rates of >>> minorities and persons with disabilities that have resulted from >>> discrimination. The Motor Voter Act requires all offices of >>> State-funded programs that are primarily engaged in providing >>> services to persons with disabilities to provide all program >>> applicants with voter registration forms, to assist them in >>> completing the forms, and to transmit completed forms to the >>> appropriate State official. >>> For more information, contact: >>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice >>> Civil Rights Division >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. >>> Voting Section - 1800 G >>> Washington, D.C. 20530 >>> >>> www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting >>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY) >>> >>> It seems that the NFB has a lot of lawyers. Is it possible for us >>> to get someone trained in law to help us with this one? >>> >>> Here is another good resource, the Department of Justice: >>> http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/ >>> >>> One question I have is, why aren't ALL voting machines accessible? >>> It seems like this is more of a software issue. Would it not be >>> possible to write accessible software to be used on all machines? >>> >>> One other thing is that we should encourage people to file a >>> complaint if they have these aforementioned problems this year and >>> in the future. We (the NFB) should provide information on that, as >>> well. >>> >>> While I think this is a concern for the whole NFB on a national >>> level, I think as students, we are in a good spot to target new >>> voters and college students who have not voted before. Maybe we >>> could draft a brochure about rights and responsibilities and general >>> information (maybe even for people who aren't blind but are >>> disabled?) and make sure it gets distributed at voter registration >>> drives going on campus. >>> >>> Cindy also makes a good point about getting to the voting place. >>> Also, this will become even more difficult in many states that >>> require valid state IDs (like TN, AL, AR, etc.). How should we deal with this? >>> >>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. >>> ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Cynthia Bennett >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Stephanie: >>>> >>>> That is a great idea. I had a similar experience as Josh as I voted >>>> in my first election. They were the 2008 primaries, and I was very >>>> excited. When the machine did not work, I asked a poll worker to >>>> assist me. They filled in the ballot as I wished, but the worker >>>> did make some comments about their preference on a politician. This >>>> occured when I said that I did not want to vote for a particular >>>> office, because I was unfamiliar with any of the candidates. I said >>>> something like, "I don't want to fill in anything for this," and >>>> the worker responded with "Oh, I heard that ___ is pretty good. Do >>>> you want me to fill in his/her name?" I chose to still not vote for >>>> that particular office. This practice is illegal, and I chose not >>>> to say anything about it. But I do think that an informational call >>>> about rights and accessible voting machines would be awesome. >>>> Unfortunately, each state is a little different, but information >>>> about federal mandates on the presence of accessible voting >>>> machines/rights and some typical patterns in accessible voting in >>>> states would be great. For example, Washington conducts mail >>>> ballots. There are a few precincts around town, but if you work in >>>> a neighborhood in which it takes a while to get to a precinct, you >>>> are at a disadvantage as a blind person. So, you can either take >>>> off work and use public transportation to navigate to one of the >>>> few and very busy precincts and wait in a 3-hour line, or you can >>>> find a reader and disclose your voting preferences. The other >>>> animal in this issue is that if you choose to get a reader to fill >>>> out your signature does not match the signature on your state ID >>>> which is kept on file, then your ballot can be deemed as false and >>>> not counted. As a blind person, I do the best I can with my >>>> signature, but I do think that even the most ambitious blind people >>>> are at a disadvantage when having to match a signature, and our >>>> ballots could not be counted, and we may not hear about it, or we >>>> would learn of it after elections are closed. If we are afraid that >>>> our signature may not match that of our state ID, then we can have 2 witnesses sign. But that is 2 more people that have to see my ballot. >>>> I do not think that this practice is common within the states, and >>>> I would definitely not like my experience to dominate the nature of >>>> the call, but I wanted to relay it to show that I think this is a >>>> very good idea. I would personally like some professional/legal >>>> advice/legal suggestions on how this can be changed. >>>> >>>> So, if you have any suggestions on people to conduct this call, or >>>> resources for where this information can be found, please share it. >>>> If not, the membership committee will certainly take the initiative >>>> to conduct an informative call if we do in fact decide to pursue >>>> this topic. But I wanted to make sure that since you made the >>>> suggestion, you are welcome to provide suggestions on people to conduct the call. >>>> >>>> I know that someone comes to each NC state convention with an >>>> accessible voting machine to show in the exhibit hall. During this >>>> time, people can vote in a fake election and orient themselves to >>>> the machine. I am not sure if NC is still doing this since it has >>>> been a few years since the accessible machines were introduced, but >>>> I think there is still a need for outreach about accessible voting. >>>> >>>> Keep the good membership call suggestions coming! >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> On 8/27/12, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> > Hi, Stephanie! >>>> > That's a great idea! >>>> > I went to my voting site, earlier this year, and the machine >>>> > didn't >>>> work. >>>> > My Disability Rights person that works for the governor, here >>>> > said >>>> he'd come >>>> > down, to show them how to work it, but he never showed up! >>>> > Thanks, Joshua >>>> > ________________________________________ >>>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>> > behalf >>>> of >>>> > Stephanie DeLuca [sjhhirst at gmail.com] >>>> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:53 PM >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Membership Call Survey >>>> > >>>> > I think a discussion on voting as people with disabilities would >>>> > be >>>> good. >>>> > Since a lot of people are on college campuses, it'd be a good >>>> opportunity to >>>> > get involved with informing people with disabilities (mainly VI) >>>> > about rights and responsibilities for voting. I've been >>>> > to/worked at several voter registration drives, and I have NEVER >>>> > seen information on voting >>>> if >>>> > you have a disability. >>>> > >>>> > On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Cody Bair wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Hi All, >>>> >> As you are probably already aware, NABS conducts monthly >>>> >> membership >>>> calls. >>>> >> In order to get this school year started we are currently >>>> >> seeking your input on what topics you would like to see us cover >>>> >> this year. >>>> >> Please >>>> >> either reply directly to this thread with your suggestions or >>>> >> mail >>>> them >>>> >> directly to >>>> >> Nabs.membership at gmail.com >>>> >> Sincerely, >>>> >> The NABS membership Committee >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >> info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o nmicrosoft.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> > for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cynthia Bennett >>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> 828.989.5383 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 01:20:09 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:20:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB In-Reply-To: <005b01cd8a28$723233b0$56969b10$@gmail.com> References: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> <005b01cd8a28$723233b0$56969b10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: HI Chris, Unfortunately, we are mere Human Beings who make mistakes including not uploading stuff to the website on time. With the information you sent, I was able to contact Bob Kresmer and Kristen Johnson to obtain the agenda. Thank you so much! Deb On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Deb, > > It seems to me they should have posted it by now, if the convention is > September 7-9. But maybe they're like Maryland can be at times, in that > they, like us, take a long time to update their Web site. Since you are > getting close to your convention, it may be a good idea to call your > affiliate's President or contact him through the Arizona affiliate's Web > site. Here is the contact information for Arizona, copied from the NFB > national Web site: > > NFB of Arizona > > Bob Kresmer, President > 9014 East Bellevue Street > Tucson, Arizona 85715-5652 > Home: 520-733-5894 > Send message: http://www.az.nfb.org/contact > Web site: http://www.az.nfb.org > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > Not there > > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 > On Sep 3, 2012 9:46 AM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > > > Hi Deb, > > > > You might want to check the Arizona affiliate's Web site for the agenda. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:00 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > > > HI ALL, > > > > ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE > > SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? > > > > THANK U. > > > > DEB > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > > mail.c > > om > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40g > > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 03:16:43 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:16:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues In-Reply-To: References: <1D01A23120654BC2BC0C23FD13CAC2FD@OwnerPC><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817CB1@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net><346FC1BA797741B29B10D4AFB41C34B5@OwnerPC><74F53312-56DD-4290-8DD1-54841CF4DFAC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ashley, I use jaws 13, but also have 12. I did not think to try jaws 12. I attempt to click on file links in course documents and nothing happens, even when I right click via the applications key. If I right click, all that opens is a new window with the same info. So I cannot open the files. how annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Coleman Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard issues Ashley, it may be the newer version of JAWS. I have JAWS 12 and 13 on my computer and mostly use 12, but I will look around on Blackboard this weekend and see what I get. Ashley C On skype and twitter On 8/30/12, Greg Aikens wrote: > Hi Ashley, > I am using JAWS 12 and Windows 7 and Firefox and am not having this issue. > When I click the file name, it automatically begins downloading it to the > downloads folder. I would give Firefox a try. You could also check to > see > which version of blackboard your school is using. If it is an older > version, it might not work as well, although you said you were able to do > this before…. > > -Greg > > -Greg > > > On Aug 30, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> well that doesn't help. I paid a lot of money to use jaws. >> I thought nfb worked and was continuing to work with blackboard on this. >> I >> am really frustrated. Also, I do not know if it is a jaw issue. I don't >> know how it could be. It reads the link and the name of the link, yet I >> cannot click on it. That is why I need someone to try with a mouse. Then, >> I will know it’s a jaws thing and can complain. I might also take it into >> school and have my professor guide me through how to use blackboard. With >> frames, you do not always see the links with jaws. They could tell me >> what >> to click on. >> >> Well, I hope I can find a solution to this. I did not have this problem >> last two semesters. And I thought blackboard was supposed to be more >> accessible now! >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Wasif, Zunaira >> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 5:09 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard issues >> >> Supposedly, System access works really well with blackboard while JAWS is >> problematic. I heard this info second hand. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:22 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues >> >> Hi all, >> >> Well, my classes use blackboard. My professor for pr has posted most >> handouts which would help me because I got the paper copy in class but >> need an electronic copy. But, the problem is this. I go to blackboard and >> click the class, click course documents, and then cannot click on the >> file >> link to open and download the file. Gee. Anyone have this issue? >> I thought it was just this professor, but then I realized it happened for >> my second class too! I press enter wich is the key for clicking usually. >> I then tried the application key, which is a right click, and still >> nothing. I am meerly taken to another screen with the same info. >> >> Any ideas? I’ll ask a sighted person to try and see if the same issue >> comes up with the mouse. But as far as I can tell, I cannot open these >> files with the keyboard. Note, I could last semester using the method I >> just described, by either pressing enter or right clicking on the >> document. FYI, I have windows 7 and internet explorer with jaws 13. >> >> Any ideas. thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.fldoe.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 03:21:43 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:21:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues In-Reply-To: References: <1D01A23120654BC2BC0C23FD13CAC2FD@OwnerPC><2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817CB1@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: Jewel, But it depends on what you need to do with blackboard; I've heard many users report problems with the discussion board. I'm trying to download files now. maybe its IE 9 and the file is in the notification bar; jaws did not say that though. But last time I used BB, I was using IE 8 and as I clicked on the file a download dialogue box appeared. Last year I also had issues using the discussion feature. not sure if that is accessible yet though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard issues I use JAWS with Blackboard without any problem, so there goes that theory. --Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Wasif, Zunaira" wrote: > Supposedly, System access works really well with blackboard while JAWS is > problematic. I heard this info second hand. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues > > Hi all, > > Well, my classes use blackboard. My professor for pr has posted most > handouts which would help me because I got the paper copy in class but > need an electronic copy. But, the problem is this. I go to blackboard and > click the class, click course documents, and then cannot click on the file > link to open and download the file. Gee. Anyone have this issue? > I thought it was just this professor, but then I realized it happened for > my second class too! I press enter wich is the key for clicking usually. > I then tried the application key, which is a right click, and still > nothing. I am meerly taken to another screen with the same info. > > Any ideas? I’ll ask a sighted person to try and see if the same issue > comes up with the mouse. But as far as I can tell, I cannot open these > files with the keyboard. Note, I could last semester using the method I > just described, by either pressing enter or right clicking on the > document. FYI, I have windows 7 and internet explorer with jaws 13. > > Any ideas. thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.fldoe.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 4 03:53:11 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:53:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Wordpress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0144A0F6AC6344498FBD1C5E8AE61986@OwnerPC> Antonio, I am trying to learn wordpress too. I find my screen reader also gets locked on some pages and will not move around; I mean the virtual cursor does not move so I cannot read the page. I can post new entries by going to the dashboard and clicking on new post or something like that and pasting in my text to the box. I cannot read stuff from there. So to publish it I press b for button and jaws goes to the next button. when jaws says publish button, I hit on that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 6:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Wordpress Hi all, I am trying to work with Wordpress, but it seems completely inaccessible for blogging purposes. The new entry page does not allow me to paste text into the text fields, and my screen reader gets locked within the edit fields. I tried saving an entry as a draft, but when I go to the draft, the page appears to be blalnk, and other inaccessible things happen to the point I have to close Internet Explorer. I will try Firefox, but would be interested in your experiences with Wordpress accessibility. Thanks, Antonio _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 11:44:54 2012 From: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com (McMahon, Cory J) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 06:44:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fw: Disability.gov Update: Justice Department Settles with Public Library Authority over Inaccessible E-Readers Message-ID: Disability.gov Update: Justice Department Settles with Public Library Authority over Inaccessible E-Readers ----- Original Message ----- From: Disability.gov To: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:41 AM Subject: Disability.gov Update: Justice Department Settles with Public Library Authority over Inaccessible E-Readers Justice Department Settles with Public Library Authority over Inaccessible E-Readers The U.S. Department of Justice and the National Federation of the Blind have settled a disability discrimination case with the Sacramento Public Library Authority for violations under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). The library used inaccessible electronic reader devices in a patron lending program. The library has agreed to acquire e-readers that are accessible to people with disabilities and it will train its staff on ADA requirements. Need help finding the information you’re looking for on Disability.gov? Visit How to Use this Site. Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Questions about the subscription service? Contact Us STAY CONNECTED: SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Preferences | Unsubscribe | Help -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com using GovDelivery, on behalf of: Disability.gov · 200 Constitution Avenue, NW · Washington, DC 20210 From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:42:14 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 13:42:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have seen blind people play angry birds weather they can c it or not. They tell me that the sounds are cool. Sent from my iPad On Sep 3, 2012, at 19:07, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Lavonya, > > I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot of > visual elements to it. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues > > Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not played > angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They just do not > care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote >> HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend me > to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not sure > it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry Birds, but I > don't think any of us have played that game before. Do any of you guys know > why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't working? I know someone > who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. >> Thanks in advance, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.co > m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 4 23:30:37 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:30:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] TOWARDS more STEM in Braille with graphics: [john.boyer@abilitiessoft.com: [absoft-members] A milestone in BrailleBlaster development] Message-ID: > >The BrailleBlaster software can now be used for Braille translation on >Windows. See the links below. It handles Nemeth and will eventually >handle tactile graphics as well. It is free and open source. > >John > >----- Forwarded message from "John J. Boyer" > ----- > >Subject: [absoft-members] A milestone in BrailleBlaster development >From: "John J. Boyer" >Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 17:43:34 -0500 >To: absoft-members at freelists.org >List-archive: > >Below are links to previews of the BrailleBlaster software for Windows. >The purpose of this software is to make Braille and tactile graphics >available at low cost. The software itself is free. It is also Open >Source. Please take a look at it and pass this message on to others who >might be interested. We need feedback. A final release of this version >will be placed on the BrailleBlaster website soon. > >Here are the links to the Windows preview installers: > >Windows 64-bit: >https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3404449/BrailleBlaster_2012.1_win_x64.exe > >Windows 32-bit: >https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3404449/BrailleBlaster_2012.1_win_x86.exe > >John > >-- >John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer >Abilitiessoft, Inc. >http://www.abilitiessoft.com >Madison, Wisconsin USA >Developing software for people with disabilities > > >----- End forwarded message ----- > >-- >John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer >Abilitiessoft, Inc. >http://www.abilitiessoft.com >Madison, Wisconsin USA >Developing software for people with disabilities From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 00:52:02 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 20:52:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 Message-ID: I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the accented letters required for Spanish? Thanks, Patrick From brlsurfer at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 00:55:28 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:55:28 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] EDMODO AND downloading files onto a usb stick Message-ID: <5046a301.a5e4440a.6b04.0e27@mx.google.com> Hi, For school, I am using a sight called edmodo. I'm not sure if any of you have heard about it or had experienced it before. I needed to get a couple of files, so I inserted my USB stick and found the save button for the file I want. After this, how do I get it onto the USB stick? Also, I had one more question. Have any of you who used edmodo ever had any accessibility problems, or is it completely accessible on the computer? Thanks for your time. Vejas From dsykora29 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 01:03:29 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:03:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patrick, To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control with ` and then a. Hope this helps, Danielle On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of > Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on > the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the > accented letters required for Spanish? > Thanks, Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 5 01:12:30 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:12:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] 11 new history book collections now available as downloads Message-ID: > >From: Richard Seltzer [mailto:seltzer at samizdat.com] >Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:47 AM >To: seltzer at samizdat.com >Subject: 11 new book collections now available as downloads > >I'm continuing to convert our book collection CDs and DVDs to >downloadable files. These are large, organized collections of >related books, in plain text (.txt) format. These books can be read >on Windows PCs, Macs, and the blind can use them on devices that >convert text to voice or to Braille. You can also upload individual >book files to most e-readers (Kindle, Kobo, and Sony, but not Nook), >but that is a slow and awkward process. For PC and Mac, when you >unzip, all the sub-folders and files are located in the same folder >and you can use the index document to click and open the individual >books, or you can browse through the files and open the books >directly using any word processor or web browser. Each book is a >separate file that you can edit, print, highlight, or take excerpts >from; and each sub-folder has the works of a particular author or >books on a common topic. In other words, you can creatively control >these files on your PC or Mac. None of the major ebook retailers >having offerings of this kind. > >We continue to sell our CDs and DVDs (nearly 200 of them) at our >Yahoo Store http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/ > >Our downloadable collections, which we call "Virtual Library >Packages", are available at our Quench Editions store >http://samizdat.com/quencheditions/ > >This week I added 11 such packages, all of them history books: > > >History -- 2345 books for >$9.99 >subsets of History, available separately: > > * British History -- 262 books for > $9.99 > * French History -- 181 books for > $9.99 > * Australian History -- 56 books for > $9.99 > * Canadian History -- 84 books for > $9.99 > * History of Exploration -- 112 books for > $9.99 > * US History -- 996 books for > $29.99 > * subsets of US History, available separately: > * Colonial and Revolution -- 151 books for > $9.99 > * Civil War History -- 176 books for > $9.99 > * Black History, Slavery, and Abolition -- 121 books for > $9.99 > * Native American History -- 94 books for > $9.99 > >This store is open for business, for pre-launch testing and >fine-tuning. The official launch will take place later this month. > >Meanwhile, this week's Free Ebook of the Week is "Bill Nye's Comic >History of England" and the Kid's Book of the Week is At the Back of >the North Wind by George MacDonald. I send these out as email >attachments. Please let me know if you'd like me to add you to >either or both distribution lists and whether you'd like .txt, >.epub, or Kindle format. > >Suggestions always welcome. > >Please spread the word. > >Best wishes. > >Richard > >Richard Seltzer, B&R Samizdat Express, >seltzer at samizdat.com, 617-469-2269 >http://www.samizdat.com, >http://www.samizdat.com/blog, http://twitter.com/richardseltzer >Ebooks by download -- Quench Editions http://www.samizdat.com/quencheditions/ >Book collections on CD and DVD http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/ As >featured in the New York Times >http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/09/arts/09conn.html >Latest book ="Saint Smith and other Stories" >http://samizdat.stores.yahoo.net/sasmandotstb.html From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 01:33:17 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:33:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does that work the same way with NVDA? Sent from my iPad On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi Patrick, > To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then > the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control > with ` and then a. > Hope this helps, > Danielle > > On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >> accented letters required for Spanish? >> Thanks, Patrick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 01:45:14 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 18:45:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> Yes, it should work with NVDA. I also have some tricks for those of you JAWS users. When you want to insert a Spanish accented letter or the letter n-tilde, while you are in the document you are working, press Insert+4, the number 4 on the numbers row above your letters. It will bring up the "select a symbol to print" dialog box. There you can select a plethora of symbols and kinds of letters you want to insert. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 Does that work the same way with NVDA? Sent from my iPad On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: > Hi Patrick, > To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then > the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control > with ` and then a. > Hope this helps, > Danielle > > On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >> accented letters required for Spanish? >> Thanks, Patrick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Sep 5 01:55:02 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 21:55:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> References: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Just one other option, for that who may write in a different language a little more frequently than just "sometimes." Add another keyboard layout. I won't clutter the list with info no one wants, but if you are interested in the steps to do this, please get in touch with me. herrinar at muohio.edu is my e-mail address. Don't be shy. I won't be upset. HTH, Amber On 9/4/12, Humberto Avila wrote: > Yes, it should work with NVDA. > > I also have some tricks for those of you JAWS users. > When you want to insert a Spanish accented letter or the letter n-tilde, > while you are in the document you are working, press Insert+4, the number 4 > on the numbers row above your letters. It will bring up the "select a symbol > to print" dialog box. There you can select a plethora of symbols and kinds > of letters you want to insert. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 > > Does that work the same way with NVDA? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: > >> Hi Patrick, >> To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then >> the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control >> with ` and then a. >> Hope this helps, >> Danielle >> >> On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >>> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >>> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >>> accented letters required for Spanish? >>> Thanks, Patrick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From herrinar at muohio.edu Wed Sep 5 02:01:24 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 22:01:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] EDMODO AND downloading files onto a usb stick In-Reply-To: <5046a301.a5e4440a.6b04.0e27@mx.google.com> References: <5046a301.a5e4440a.6b04.0e27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I have never used it but if you were able to find the save button, then you should be able to activate that button, shift tab to the list view, which is a list of all folders and files on your computer. You can navigate to the place where you want to save it by pressing the backspace key until you find yourself on the desktop or in the computer. At this point, you should be able to point to the drive that is your USB stick (if you do not know what this is called for sure, then you may have to do some exploring before you discover the correct one) and if you press enter, you should be then focused inside that drive. If this does not work, you can save as normal to documents or downloads, and then copy. If you are still having trouble, feel free to write me off list. I would be more than happy to help you. Unfortunately, you were a little vague as to what you mean about making it save, so perhaps if you could explain it in a little more depth, or if we could connect and possibly discuss this on the phone or skype etc, I could be of more assistance. It is also very possible that because I have never used this thing, I am way off base and have no clue what I'm talk about, in which case, I am sincerely apologetic. One slightly confused but trying to help, Amber On 9/4/12, vejas wrote: > Hi, > For school, I am using a sight called edmodo. I'm not sure if > any of you have heard about it or had experienced it before. I > needed to get a couple of files, so I inserted my USB stick and > found the save button for the file I want. After this, how do I > get it onto the USB stick? > Also, I had one more question. Have any of you who used edmodo > ever had any accessibility problems, or is it completely > accessible on the computer? > Thanks for your time. > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:13:44 2012 From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (aleeha dudley) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 22:13:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues In-Reply-To: References: <1D01A23120654BC2BC0C23FD13CAC2FD@OwnerPC> <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817CB1@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Message-ID: Try the notification bar. The options should be there. Aleeha Dudley President, Ohio Association of Blind Students Changing what it means to be blind On Sep 3, 2012, at 11:21 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Jewel, > But it depends on what you need to do with blackboard; I've heard many users report problems with the discussion board. > I'm trying to download files now. maybe its IE 9 and the file is in the notification bar; jaws did not say that though. But last time I used BB, I was using IE 8 and as I clicked on the file a download dialogue box appeared. > > Last year I also had issues using the discussion feature. not sure if that is accessible yet though. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jewel > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:39 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard issues > > I use JAWS with Blackboard without any problem, so there goes that theory. > --Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 30, 2012, at 5:09 PM, "Wasif, Zunaira" wrote: > >> Supposedly, System access works really well with blackboard while JAWS is problematic. I heard this info second hand. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:22 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard issues >> >> Hi all, >> >> Well, my classes use blackboard. My professor for pr has posted most handouts which would help me because I got the paper copy in class but need an electronic copy. But, the problem is this. I go to blackboard and click the class, click course documents, and then cannot click on the file link to open and download the file. Gee. Anyone have this issue? >> I thought it was just this professor, but then I realized it happened for my second class too! I press enter wich is the key for clicking usually. I then tried the application key, which is a right click, and still nothing. I am meerly taken to another screen with the same info. >> >> Any ideas? I’ll ask a sighted person to try and see if the same issue comes up with the mouse. But as far as I can tell, I cannot open these files with the keyboard. Note, I could last semester using the method I just described, by either pressing enter or right clicking on the document. FYI, I have windows 7 and internet explorer with jaws 13. >> >> Any ideas. thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.fldoe.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com From amc05111 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:42:54 2012 From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 22:42:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] EDMODO AND downloading files onto a usb stick In-Reply-To: <5046a301.a5e4440a.6b04.0e27@mx.google.com> References: <5046a301.a5e4440a.6b04.0e27@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I have heard of Edmoto, and I'm just starting to use it. If you are part of a class and try to send a message to a specific class; when you go to select the group to send it to. That is where I have found problems. You should be able to copy and paste your files to the USB drive or save them there. Ashley On 9/4/12, vejas wrote: > Hi, > For school, I am using a sight called edmodo. I'm not sure if > any of you have heard about it or had experienced it before. I > needed to get a couple of files, so I inserted my USB stick and > found the save button for the file I want. After this, how do I > get it onto the USB stick? > Also, I had one more question. Have any of you who used edmodo > ever had any accessibility problems, or is it completely > accessible on the computer? > Thanks for your time. > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 03:10:03 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 23:10:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> References: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0BE63D-223B-4A73-BED0-09247B459244@gmail.com> That u so much. I will play around with it, to c how it works. Sent from my iPad On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:45, "Humberto Avila" wrote: > Yes, it should work with NVDA. > > I also have some tricks for those of you JAWS users. > When you want to insert a Spanish accented letter or the letter n-tilde, while you are in the document you are working, press Insert+4, the number 4 on the numbers row above your letters. It will bring up the "select a symbol to print" dialog box. There you can select a plethora of symbols and kinds of letters you want to insert. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 > > Does that work the same way with NVDA? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: > >> Hi Patrick, >> To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then >> the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control >> with ` and then a. >> Hope this helps, >> Danielle >> >> On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >>> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >>> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >>> accented letters required for Spanish? >>> Thanks, Patrick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 04:15:56 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 00:15:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A0BE63D-223B-4A73-BED0-09247B459244@gmail.com> References: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> <4A0BE63D-223B-4A73-BED0-09247B459244@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks! I'm definitely curious about the keyboard layout. Patrick On 9/4/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > That u so much. I will play around with it, to c how it works. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:45, "Humberto Avila" > wrote: > >> Yes, it should work with NVDA. >> >> I also have some tricks for those of you JAWS users. >> When you want to insert a Spanish accented letter or the letter n-tilde, >> while you are in the document you are working, press Insert+4, the number >> 4 on the numbers row above your letters. It will bring up the "select a >> symbol to print" dialog box. There you can select a plethora of symbols >> and kinds of letters you want to insert. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 >> >> Does that work the same way with NVDA? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: >> >>> Hi Patrick, >>> To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then >>> the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control >>> with ` and then a. >>> Hope this helps, >>> Danielle >>> >>> On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>>> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >>>> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >>>> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >>>> accented letters required for Spanish? >>>> Thanks, Patrick >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 15:13:33 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:13:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <00a101cd8b08$18a3f550$49ebdff0$@gmail.com> <4A0BE63D-223B-4A73-BED0-09247B459244@gmail.com> Message-ID: I do it a little differently. I press Insert + the number 4 on the number line above the alphabet keys, and then select the symbol by pressing the letter it relates to. For example, if I want to write ¿Comó esta? I press Insert + 4 and select i for inverted question mark and scroll down to that symbol. Then for the accented o, I press o and it's the first one. The accented letter will always be the first one for a particular letter, such as á, é, í,ó, and ú. The second in the list will be the same letter, capitalized. Then it will follow with other accent symbols and other symbols, such as æ or the inverted question mark I mentioned earlier. This is very useful for Spanish as the accents needed for Spanish are first in the list. Hope that helps, Jewel On 9/5/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Thanks! I'm definitely curious about the keyboard layout. > Patrick > > On 9/4/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> That u so much. I will play around with it, to c how it works. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:45, "Humberto Avila" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, it should work with NVDA. >>> >>> I also have some tricks for those of you JAWS users. >>> When you want to insert a Spanish accented letter or the letter n-tilde, >>> while you are in the document you are working, press Insert+4, the >>> number >>> 4 on the numbers row above your letters. It will bring up the "select a >>> symbol to print" dialog box. There you can select a plethora of symbols >>> and kinds of letters you want to insert. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 6:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accents in Microsoft word 2010 >>> >>> Does that work the same way with NVDA? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 21:03, Danielle Sykora wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Patrick, >>>> To insert an accented letter you need to press control with ` and then >>>> the letter you want to enter. For example, to create à press control >>>> with ` and then a. >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Danielle >>>> >>>> On 9/4/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: >>>>> I wonder if anyone can help me with this one: I'm taking a couple of >>>>> Spanish classes this semester. For the most part, I do my writing on >>>>> the BrailleNote, but for those times when I don't, how do I insert the >>>>> accented letters required for Spanish? >>>>> Thanks, Patrick >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 02:36:42 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:36:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all Message-ID: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Hello all, I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? Koby Sent from my iPhone From ray214 at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 02:37:46 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 22:37:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all In-Reply-To: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51AAFDC5F5224279ADAD645E4929D7D1@RaymondPC> Just let her know whenever you can. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Koby" Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked > me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense > last Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 03:47:53 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 20:47:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all In-Reply-To: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, What do you want? Is she within easy traveling distance from you? Are you ready for a huge time commitment and a whole lot of confusion? Are you ready for your perspective of this girl to change drastically? Are you finding yourself with lots of extra money floating around? If the answer is yes, then by all means, say yes. But if there is any doubt, I would definitely not go through. I'd just tell her that you are not ready for a relationship at this point and ask if you can please just keep your relationship at the friend level. Hope this helps, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Koby Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all Hello all, I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? Koby Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 04:30:59 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:30:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all In-Reply-To: References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C48BBF3-306E-4514-9BFD-4DBC830F6195@gmail.com> I think that these types of questions are completely legitimate. And I think that it is very smart to seek advice from others before making decisions. But this list is in place to provide blind students and interested parties a place to share information and to ask questions related to student and/or blindness issues. So I think it would be best if unrelated discussions were taken offlist. We are glad that you subscribe to the list, and we look forward to learning from and to assisting you in regard to student and blindness related issues. Thanks for understanding. Cindy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2012, at 8:47 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > What do you want? Is she within easy traveling distance from you? Are you ready for a huge time commitment and a whole lot of confusion? Are you ready for your perspective of this girl to change drastically? Are you finding yourself with lots of extra money floating around? > If the answer is yes, then by all means, say yes. > But if there is any doubt, I would definitely not go through. I'd just tell her that you are not ready for a relationship at this point and ask if you can please just keep your relationship at the friend level. > Hope this helps, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Koby > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 6 04:54:08 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:54:08 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all In-Reply-To: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Message-ID: I hope I'm not overstepping here, but isn't this off topic for this list? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all Hello all, I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? Koby Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 05:01:32 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Message-ID: Hi all, Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar situations might find it helpful. During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is something to give a little serious thought to before you make that kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. Hope this helps, Arielle From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 6 05:23:59 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 01:23:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all In-Reply-To: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46EDB934DADD41B8A40D064784747E91@OwnerPC> Koby, This is hard to answer without more details. What do you want? Is she blind? When you say you were asked to come see her, what exactly does this mean? Come for a weekend visit, come move in with her? Does this mean she expects you to move to have a serious relationship? I am guessing that you two are far apart and thus have not seen each other yet in person after reconnecting. So, it depends on what you want. Ask yourself the questions Brandon suggested. Keep in mind that traveling a long distance to see someone gets to be expensive when you add up transit costs and food and perhaps lodging, unless you stay with her. My advice would be not to have a long distance relationship. I just feel there are many cons to it. You cannot bond and share things together like you would when you see each other face to face. But if you want the relationship and the girl is reasonably nearby, then you could pursue it. Also consider your interests and goals before commiting. HTH, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Koby Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all Hello all, I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? Koby Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 05:53:28 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:53:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Message-ID: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> Hi, Arielle and all, Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman References: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F@gmail.com> <46EDB934DADD41B8A40D064784747E91@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <53179163-785B-48ED-94BF-1199450290D0@gmail.com> Yes she's blind and I want a serious relation ship. Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:23 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Koby, > This is hard to answer without more details. What do you want? Is she blind? > When you say you were asked to come see her, what exactly does this mean? Come for a weekend visit, come move in with her? > Does this mean she expects you to move to have a serious relationship? > > I am guessing that you two are far apart and thus have not seen each other yet in person after reconnecting. > So, it depends on what you want. Ask yourself the questions Brandon suggested. > Keep in mind that traveling a long distance to see someone gets to be expensive when you add up transit costs and food and perhaps lodging, unless you stay with her. > > My advice would be not to have a long distance relationship. I just feel there are many cons to it. You cannot bond and share things together like you would when you see each other face to face. But if you want the relationship and the girl is reasonably nearby, then you could pursue it. Also consider your interests and goals before commiting. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Koby > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From treyman19 at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 08:02:20 2012 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:02:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Off Topic Message-ID: Hi I have a couple things for sell that I need to get arrid of one of them is a Eye Pal made by ABISee and then I also have a trecker Breeze and then I have a Duxbury. Please email or call me at treyman19 at gmail.com -- Roosevelt Bradley From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 11:33:23 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:33:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all Message-ID: <50488a08.0a4bec0a.782a.68ad@mx.google.com> Koby, I have a boyfriend who lives in Australia. We facetime a lot and communicate through emails and go out together whenever he comes in town. Our relationship is going smoothly, so distance isn't necessarily a factor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Like I said before in a private email Beth, you had every right to send that email out and if his family doesn't like you anymore for that, they need to ask for forgiveness from the lord. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth" Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:53 AM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's > nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, > bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think > Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. > His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this > December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so > I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's > blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. > HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are > nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my > coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least > he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate > things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and > wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs > myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not > made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity > issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother > because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really > inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no > matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that > it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is > good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im > glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I > make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to > see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. > That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > From isaac.hebert at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 17:35:49 2012 From: isaac.hebert at gmail.com (Isaac Hebert) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 12:35:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would take the relationship slow andtry to find out what she has been doing before you reconnected with her. On 9/6/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question for you all (Koby) > 2. Re: Question for you all (raymond lombardi) > 3. Re: Question for you all (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 4. Re: Question for you all (Cindy) > 5. Re: Question for you all (Joshua Lester) > 6. Long-Distance Dating (Arielle Silverman) > 7. Re: Question for you all (Ashley Bramlett) > 8. Re: Long-Distance Dating (Beth) > 9. Re: Question for you all (Koby) > 10. Off Topic (Trey Bradley) > 11. Re: Question for you all (Sophie Trist) > 12. Re: Long-Distance Dating (raymond lombardi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:36:42 -0500 > From: Koby > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <8182F361-3570-4F33-87AF-09C1752CF63F at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me > when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last > Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 22:37:46 -0400 > From: "raymond lombardi" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <51AAFDC5F5224279ADAD645E4929D7D1 at RaymondPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Just let her know whenever you can. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Koby" > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > >> Hello all, >> I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If >> >> we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked >> me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense >> last Saturday. What should I tell her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 20:47:53 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > What do you want? Is she within easy traveling distance from you? Are you > ready for a huge time commitment and a whole lot of confusion? Are you ready > > for your perspective of this girl to change drastically? Are you finding > yourself with lots of extra money floating around? > If the answer is yes, then by all means, say yes. > But if there is any doubt, I would definitely not go through. I'd just tell > > her that you are not ready for a relationship at this point and ask if you > can please just keep your relationship at the friend level. > Hope this helps, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Koby > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me > > when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last > Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:30:59 -0700 > From: Cindy > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <1C48BBF3-306E-4514-9BFD-4DBC830F6195 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I think that these types of questions are completely legitimate. And I think > that it is very smart to seek advice from others before making decisions. > But this list is in place to provide blind students and interested > parties a place to share information and to ask questions related to student > and/or blindness issues. So I think it would be best if unrelated > discussions were taken offlist. We are glad that you subscribe to the list, > and we look forward to learning from and to assisting you in regard to > student and blindness related issues. > > Thanks for understanding. > > Cindy > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 5, 2012, at 8:47 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > >> Hello, >> What do you want? Is she within easy traveling distance from you? Are you >> ready for a huge time commitment and a whole lot of confusion? Are you >> ready for your perspective of this girl to change drastically? Are you >> finding yourself with lots of extra money floating around? >> If the answer is yes, then by all means, say yes. >> But if there is any doubt, I would definitely not go through. I'd just >> tell her that you are not ready for a relationship at this point and ask >> if you can please just keep your relationship at the friend level. >> Hope this helps, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Koby >> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all >> >> Hello all, >> I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If >> we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked >> me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense >> last Saturday. What should I tell her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:54:08 +0000 > From: Joshua Lester > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I hope I'm not overstepping here, but isn't this off topic for this list? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me > when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last > Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 01:23:59 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <46EDB934DADD41B8A40D064784747E91 at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Koby, > This is hard to answer without more details. What do you want? Is she > blind? > When you say you were asked to come see her, what exactly does this mean? > Come for a weekend visit, come move in with her? > Does this mean she expects you to move to have a serious relationship? > > I am guessing that you two are far apart and thus have not seen each other > yet in person after reconnecting. > So, it depends on what you want. Ask yourself the questions Brandon > suggested. > Keep in mind that traveling a long distance to see someone gets to be > expensive when you add up transit costs and food and perhaps lodging, unless > > you stay with her. > > My advice would be not to have a long distance relationship. I just feel > there are many cons to it. You cannot bond and share things together like > you would when you see each other face to face. But if you want the > relationship and the girl is reasonably nearby, then you could pursue it. > Also consider your interests and goals before commiting. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Koby > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked me > > when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense last > Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 23:53:28 -0600 > From: Beth > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > Message-ID: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on > each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but > people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you > say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side > to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom > was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't > this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to > pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want > Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and > all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can > marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. > Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even > Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he > was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't > engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate > things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good > sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. > (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and > turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice > as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity > issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent > to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did > that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with > this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or > whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's > emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this > relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in > our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good > boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with > Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to > see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending > that email. That's the only thing about the relationship > that I don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more > relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, > especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for > many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and > because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a > long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd > like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone > I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret > that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very > hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other > for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not > think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current > boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be > living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I > enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I > think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way > to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying > and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make > that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure > that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see > each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about > the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally > on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 02:50:30 -0500 > From: Koby > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <53179163-785B-48ED-94BF-1199450290D0 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yes she's blind and I want a serious relation ship. > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:23 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Koby, >> This is hard to answer without more details. What do you want? Is she >> blind? >> When you say you were asked to come see her, what exactly does this mean? >> Come for a weekend visit, come move in with her? >> Does this mean she expects you to move to have a serious relationship? >> >> I am guessing that you two are far apart and thus have not seen each other >> yet in person after reconnecting. >> So, it depends on what you want. Ask yourself the questions Brandon >> suggested. >> Keep in mind that traveling a long distance to see someone gets to be >> expensive when you add up transit costs and food and perhaps lodging, >> unless you stay with her. >> >> My advice would be not to have a long distance relationship. I just feel >> there are many cons to it. You cannot bond and share things together like >> you would when you see each other face to face. But if you want the >> relationship and the girl is reasonably nearby, then you could pursue it. >> Also consider your interests and goals before commiting. >> >> HTH, >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Koby >> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:36 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all >> >> Hello all, >> I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she asked me If >> we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then she asked >> me when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together sense >> last Saturday. What should I tell her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 04:02:20 -0400 > From: Trey Bradley > To: nabs-l > Subject: [nabs-l] Off Topic > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi I have a couple things for sell that I need to get arrid of one of > them is a Eye Pal made by ABISee and then I also have a trecker Breeze > and then I have a Duxbury. Please email or call me at > treyman19 at gmail.com > > -- > Roosevelt Bradley > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:33:23 -0500 > From: Sophie Trist > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > Message-ID: <50488a08.0a4bec0a.782a.68ad at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Koby, I have a boyfriend who lives in Australia. We facetime a > lot and communicate through emails and go out together whenever > he comes in town. Our relationship is going smoothly, so distance > isn't necessarily a factor. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 20:47:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello, > What do you want? Is she within easy traveling distance from you? > Are you > ready for a huge time commitment and a whole lot of confusion? > Are you ready > for your perspective of this girl to change drastically? Are you > finding > yourself with lots of extra money floating around? > If the answer is yes, then by all means, say yes. > But if there is any doubt, I would definitely not go through. I'd > just tell > her that you are not ready for a relationship at this point and > ask if you > can please just keep your relationship at the friend level. > Hope this helps, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Koby > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Question for you all > > Hello all, > I reconnected with this girl that I've known for years and she > asked me If > we could be boy friend and girl friend and I said yes and then > she asked me > when I'm going to come see her and we have only been together > sense last > Saturday. What should I tell her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 08:07:34 -0400 > From: "raymond lombardi" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Like I said before in a private email Beth, you had every right to send > > that email out and if his family doesn't like you anymore for that, they > need to ask for forgiveness from the lord. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Beth" > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:53 AM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's >> nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, >> bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think >> Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. >> His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this >> December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so >> >> I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's >> >> blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. >> >> HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >> desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are >> >> nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my >> >> coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least >> he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate >> things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and >> >> wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs >> >> myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not >> made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity >> >> issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother >> >> because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really >> inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no >> matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that >> >> it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is >> >> good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im >> glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I >> make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to >> see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. >> That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6 > ************************************* > From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 00:36:46 2012 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 19:36:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LSAT Update Message-ID: Hi all, Just wanted you all to know that my LSAT Accommodations request was granted. Respectfully, Jordan Richardson Mn-abs president Sent from my iPod From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 02:47:15 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 21:47:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] LSAT Update Message-ID: <50496038.056f650a.2700.1dd8@mx.google.com> Good for you, Jordan! It's so nice when they cooperate. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Richardson ,National Association of Blind Students mailing list ,Minnesota Association of Blind Students References: <50496038.056f650a.2700.1dd8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jordan, What kind of accommodations did you request? Did you ask to use JAWS? Arielle On 9/6/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > Good for you, Jordan! It's so nice when they cooperate. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jordan Richardson To: Blind Law Mailing List ,National > Association of Blind Students mailing list > ,Minnesota Association of Blind Students > Date sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 19:36:46 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] LSAT Update > > Hi all, > Just wanted you all to know that my LSAT Accommodations request > was granted. > > Respectfully, > Jordan Richardson > Mn-abs president > > Sent from my iPod > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From sjhhirst at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 18:48:45 2012 From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 13:48:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] voting accessibility Message-ID: Dear Lou Ann, The National Association of Blind Students (NABS) has been discussing voting accessibility lately, especially since, as students, we are all in a good place to inform the public about the need for accessible voting and educating blind/VI voters on their rights and responsibilities. One key part of this is that we need to know what exactly ARE our rights and responsibilities? Which laws should we read? Do you know how we can access that information? We all feel that this is quite important, as voting is something that every citizen has a right to do, but several stories have been shared on the list in which the blind/VI voter was not able to vote in private using the "accessible" voting machine. We look forward to hearing from you soon! Thanks! Stephanie DeLuca From sjhhirst at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 19:52:20 2012 From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:52:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: voting accessibility References: <169538947A2BAC4694FA18579A4F871004F68B@BL2PRD0711MB397.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <650F1990-3CA6-4093-8650-8F3A1EDF7A70@gmail.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Blake, Lou Ann" > Subject: RE: voting accessibility > Date: September 7, 2012 2:27:19 PM CDT > To: Stephanie DeLuca > > Hi Stephanie, > > Thanks so much for your e-mail! I am very glad to hear that the members of the blind students division are interested in accessible voting. > > The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires that at least one accessible voting machine be provided in every polling place for all federal elections. Therefore, there should be at least one accessible voting machine in every polling place for the upcoming presidential election on November 6th. However, HAVA does not apply to state and local elections, so when a blind voter goes to her local polling place for a state/local election there may not be an accessible voting machine available. > > It has been my experience, both personal and from what other blind voters have told me, that the biggest barrier to a blind voter's ability to cast a private and independent ballot is the untrained poll worker who does not know how to set-up or operate the accessible voting machine. In most of these instances, if the blind voter is patient and politely insist that she wants to use the accessible voting machine, the poll workers are able to get the accessible machine operating. When a blind voter is not able to cast a private and independent vote because an accessible machine is not present or the poll workers cannot get it operating, she should file a complaint with her state board of elections. > > I have attached The Blind Voter's Guide, which provides additional information about the rights of blind voters. This guide was prepared under the Jernigan Institute's 2008-2009 HAVA grant from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Please feel free to distribute this guide to other blind voters. > > If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me. > > Best regards, > > Lou Ann > > Lou Ann Blake, J.D. > HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator > Jernigan Institute > NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND > 200 East Wells Street > at Jernigan Place > Baltimore, MD 21230 > Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 > Fax: (410) 659-5129 > E-mail: lblake at nfb.org > Web site: www.nfb.org > > > Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephanie DeLuca [mailto:sjhhirst at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 2:49 PM > To: Blake, Lou Ann > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: voting accessibility > > Dear Lou Ann, > > The National Association of Blind Students (NABS) has been discussing voting accessibility lately, especially since, as students, we are all in a good place to inform the public about the need for accessible voting and educating blind/VI voters on their rights and responsibilities. One key part of this is that we need to know what exactly ARE our rights and responsibilities? Which laws should we read? Do you know how we can access that information? We all feel that this is quite important, as voting is something that every citizen has a right to do, but several stories have been shared on the list in which the blind/VI voter was not able to vote in private using the "accessible" voting machine. We look forward to hearing from you soon! Thanks! > > Stephanie DeLuca > > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Fri Sep 7 21:20:50 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fw: NYLN 2013 Governing Board Applications Now Available! Message-ID: <1347052850.2627.YahooMailClassic@web160704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> On Fri, 9/7/12, National Youth Leadership Network wrote: From: National Youth Leadership Network Subject: NYLN 2013 Governing Board Applications Now Available! To: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Date: Friday, September 7, 2012, 1:30 PM 2013 NYLN Governing Board Applications Now Available! Apply to serve on the NYLN Governing Board! Reminder: Learn more about NYLN and what serving on our Board includes by attending an informational call on September 10th, 7pm EST.  The call in info is: Phone: (866)200-5786     PIN#: 2867077    The National Youth Leadership Network (NYLN) is accepting applications for our Governing Board (GB). NYLN is a membership-run organization. This means our members lead the work we do.   What does the Governing Board do?  GB members are NYLN's organizational leaders. They make decisions for NYLN and are often the leaders in NYLN projects. Examples of GB responsibilities include: Serving on at least one committee; Representing NYLN in coalitions and at conferences; Building collaboration with other organizations; Recruiting new members; and Finding ways for NYLN to be active in your local community.   What is the time commitment like? Serving on the GB involves an average of two meetings a month. Meetings happen by phone or in an online chatroom. GB members spend about 15 hours a month on NYLN.   Requirements for serving on the Governing Board: Be between 14 and 28 years old Have a disability Live in the United States or its territories Have a passion for social justice, and Believe in and practice full-inclusion.   NYLN is a cross-disability organization. This means we are made up of people with all kinds of disabilities. Anyone with any kind of disability is welcome to apply.   A downloadable application can be found in both Word and PDF format by going to:    http://www.nyln.org/get-involved-2/apply-for-leadership-position/    Important dates: Learn more about NYLN and what serving on our Board includes by attending an informational call on September 10th, 7pm EST.  The call in info is: Phone: (866)200-5786     PIN#: 2867077 Applications for the Board must be postmarked by Monday, September 17, 2012. Applicants will be notified of selection no later than September 30, 2012. The first Board call for those who are selected will be October 17 at 7pm EST. More information will be sent to selected members prior to this date.   If you have questions, please contact either of the following:   Jessica Croner, President, jessica.croner at gmail.com  Betsy Valnes, Executive Director, betsy.valnes at gmail.com, 866-480-6565, ext. 1     The National Youth Leadership Network (NYLN) is a youth-driven, youth-led organization. We work to build power and community among young people with disabilities. We are a formal non-profit. Please visit our website, www.nyln.org, for more information.       Forward this email This email was sent to anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com by kristenejones at utexas.edu |   Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. National Youth Leadership Network | PO Box 5908 | Bethesda | MD | 20824 From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 21:26:54 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 14:26:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: voting accessibility In-Reply-To: <650F1990-3CA6-4093-8650-8F3A1EDF7A70@gmail.com> References: <169538947A2BAC4694FA18579A4F871004F68B@BL2PRD0711MB397.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> <650F1990-3CA6-4093-8650-8F3A1EDF7A70@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9223021F-D8EA-4B38-BA95-E777A54D9DE7@gmail.com> Thanks for sharing. This is great information. We can definitely use it as a starting point for our call. Cindy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Stephanie DeLuca wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Blake, Lou Ann" >> Subject: RE: voting accessibility >> Date: September 7, 2012 2:27:19 PM CDT >> To: Stephanie DeLuca >> >> Hi Stephanie, >> >> Thanks so much for your e-mail! I am very glad to hear that the members of the blind students division are interested in accessible voting. >> >> The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires that at least one accessible voting machine be provided in every polling place for all federal elections. Therefore, there should be at least one accessible voting machine in every polling place for the upcoming presidential election on November 6th. However, HAVA does not apply to state and local elections, so when a blind voter goes to her local polling place for a state/local election there may not be an accessible voting machine available. >> >> It has been my experience, both personal and from what other blind voters have told me, that the biggest barrier to a blind voter's ability to cast a private and independent ballot is the untrained poll worker who does not know how to set-up or operate the accessible voting machine. In most of these instances, if the blind voter is patient and politely insist that she wants to use the accessible voting machine, the poll workers are able to get the accessible machine operating. When a blind voter is not able to cast a private and independent vote because an accessible machine is not present or the poll workers cannot get it operating, she should file a complaint with her state board of elections. >> >> I have attached The Blind Voter's Guide, which provides additional information about the rights of blind voters. This guide was prepared under the Jernigan Institute's 2008-2009 HAVA grant from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Please feel free to distribute this guide to other blind voters. >> >> If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Lou Ann >> >> Lou Ann Blake, J.D. >> HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator >> Jernigan Institute >> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >> 200 East Wells Street >> at Jernigan Place >> Baltimore, MD 21230 >> Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 >> Fax: (410) 659-5129 >> E-mail: lblake at nfb.org >> Web site: www.nfb.org >> >> >> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stephanie DeLuca [mailto:sjhhirst at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 2:49 PM >> To: Blake, Lou Ann >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: voting accessibility >> >> Dear Lou Ann, >> >> The National Association of Blind Students (NABS) has been discussing voting accessibility lately, especially since, as students, we are all in a good place to inform the public about the need for accessible voting and educating blind/VI voters on their rights and responsibilities. One key part of this is that we need to know what exactly ARE our rights and responsibilities? Which laws should we read? Do you know how we can access that information? We all feel that this is quite important, as voting is something that every citizen has a right to do, but several stories have been shared on the list in which the blind/VI voter was not able to vote in private using the "accessible" voting machine. We look forward to hearing from you soon! Thanks! >> >> Stephanie DeLuca >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Fri Sep 7 22:08:41 2012 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:08:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: voting accessibility In-Reply-To: <9223021F-D8EA-4B38-BA95-E777A54D9DE7@gmail.com> References: <169538947A2BAC4694FA18579A4F871004F68B@BL2PRD0711MB397.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> <650F1990-3CA6-4093-8650-8F3A1EDF7A70@gmail.com> <9223021F-D8EA-4B38-BA95-E777A54D9DE7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Stephanie, The Blind Voters Guide attachment didn't come through; could you send that in a separate message, please? It seems as though it could be very informative. Warmest Regards, Courtney On 9/7/12, Cindy wrote: > Thanks for sharing. This is great information. We can definitely use it as a > starting point for our call. > > Cindy > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Stephanie DeLuca wrote: > >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Blake, Lou Ann" >>> Subject: RE: voting accessibility >>> Date: September 7, 2012 2:27:19 PM CDT >>> To: Stephanie DeLuca >>> >>> Hi Stephanie, >>> >>> Thanks so much for your e-mail! I am very glad to hear that the members >>> of the blind students division are interested in accessible voting. >>> >>> The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires that at least one accessible >>> voting machine be provided in every polling place for all federal >>> elections. Therefore, there should be at least one accessible voting >>> machine in every polling place for the upcoming presidential election on >>> November 6th. However, HAVA does not apply to state and local elections, >>> so when a blind voter goes to her local polling place for a state/local >>> election there may not be an accessible voting machine available. >>> >>> It has been my experience, both personal and from what other blind voters >>> have told me, that the biggest barrier to a blind voter's ability to cast >>> a private and independent ballot is the untrained poll worker who does >>> not know how to set-up or operate the accessible voting machine. In most >>> of these instances, if the blind voter is patient and politely insist >>> that she wants to use the accessible voting machine, the poll workers are >>> able to get the accessible machine operating. When a blind voter is not >>> able to cast a private and independent vote because an accessible machine >>> is not present or the poll workers cannot get it operating, she should >>> file a complaint with her state board of elections. >>> >>> I have attached The Blind Voter's Guide, which provides additional >>> information about the rights of blind voters. This guide was prepared >>> under the Jernigan Institute's 2008-2009 HAVA grant from the U.S. >>> Department of Health and Human Services. Please feel free to distribute >>> this guide to other blind voters. >>> >>> If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Lou Ann >>> >>> Lou Ann Blake, J.D. >>> HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator >>> Jernigan Institute >>> NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND >>> 200 East Wells Street >>> at Jernigan Place >>> Baltimore, MD 21230 >>> Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 >>> Fax: (410) 659-5129 >>> E-mail: lblake at nfb.org >>> Web site: www.nfb.org >>> >>> >>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund >>> via your phone bill. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stephanie DeLuca [mailto:sjhhirst at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 2:49 PM >>> To: Blake, Lou Ann >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: voting accessibility >>> >>> Dear Lou Ann, >>> >>> The National Association of Blind Students (NABS) has been discussing >>> voting accessibility lately, especially since, as students, we are all in >>> a good place to inform the public about the need for accessible voting >>> and educating blind/VI voters on their rights and responsibilities. One >>> key part of this is that we need to know what exactly ARE our rights and >>> responsibilities? Which laws should we read? Do you know how we can >>> access that information? We all feel that this is quite important, as >>> voting is something that every citizen has a right to do, but several >>> stories have been shared on the list in which the blind/VI voter was not >>> able to vote in private using the "accessible" voting machine. We look >>> forward to hearing from you soon! Thanks! >>> >>> Stephanie DeLuca >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 01:42:00 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:42:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Sep 8 01:46:50 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 01:46:50 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com>, <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From ray214 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:01:43 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:01:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: this totally off topic and there might be kids and highschoolers on here. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Koby" Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:42 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no >> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >> think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in >> June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't >> this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it >> again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just >> because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his >> life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids >> if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. >> Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with >> the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with >> me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other >> inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good >> sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), >> though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I >> see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. >> Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a >> stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething >> he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this >> list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. >> All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near >> me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in >> our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. >> Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending >> an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents >> me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship >> that I don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:10:47 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:10:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <43E0E5FE-9026-4A1A-B8A2-73669A4DE245@gmail.com> No It Isn't. Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 02:13:29 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:13:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a > good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Sep 8 02:15:33 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 02:15:33 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <43E0E5FE-9026-4A1A-B8A2-73669A4DE245@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> , <43E0E5FE-9026-4A1A-B8A2-73669A4DE245@gmail.com> Message-ID: Koby: to answer the question, I personally wouldn't do it, until marriage. Now, please stop talking about this stuff on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating No It Isn't. Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:20:18 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:20:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> Message-ID: <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> Yes. How should I convey this to her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. > > Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> All, >> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >> >>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a >> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>> situations might find it helpful. >>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>> Hope this helps, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 02:32:53 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:32:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. Respectfully Submitted Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > Yes. How should I convey this to her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >> >> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> All, >>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a >>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:42:06 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 21:42:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> Message-ID: <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > >> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >> >>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>> >>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> All, >>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>> Koby >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a >>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 02:56:09 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:56:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating Message-ID: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Joshua, Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain discussion can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a high school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not mature enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, why is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about the truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who knows anything about the education of children to teach their children about sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged (and often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as young as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. Then we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do in regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and don't learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be properly prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important that they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at an early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school students from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as well as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the option not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with reading, and that there were many people on this list and others who are much older than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) does not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or being a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just don't use my age as support for your claim that something is inappropriate for this list. Chris Nusbaum -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co > m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o nmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 03:08:09 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:08:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your words represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. Respectfully Submitted Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: > What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: >> >>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >>> >>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>>> >>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> >>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>> Koby >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has > a >>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:09:48 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:09:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all my name is Tiffany and I have a question I am trying to find free audio descriptive movies they were accessable on blindmicemart.com but are no longer there does anyone know where i can go to find movies like the ones on blindmicemart.com On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Joshua, > > Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain discussion > can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on > Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this > topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for > this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a > discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a high > school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to > offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not > mature > enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, > why > is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about > the > truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the > first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents > encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who > knows anything about the education of children to teach their children > about > sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged > (and > often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of > the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as young > as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that > has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we > learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. > Then > we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do in > regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and don't > learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be > properly > prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that > parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important that > they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the > real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at > an > early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of > inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school students > from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, > borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as well > as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world > which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the option > not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with > reading, > and that there were many people on this list and others who are much older > than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as > much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's > right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school > student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) > does > not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to > discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for > this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or being > a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is > the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just > don't use my age as support for your claim that something is inappropriate > for this list. > > Chris Nusbaum > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each > other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no > good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think > Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. > His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this > December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so > I > can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's > blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. > HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, > and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous > about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing > and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't > engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that > sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He > loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If > I > look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice > as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see > myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly > upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want > to > share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft > I > do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having > Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune > blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good > boyfriend. > Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending > an > email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me > for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that > I > don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >> m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o > nmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:09:52 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:09:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: which movies are you looking for? I might have them and then some. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:09 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating > Hi all my name is Tiffany and I have a question I am trying to find > free audio descriptive movies they were accessable on > blindmicemart.com but are no longer there does anyone know where i can > go to find movies like the ones on blindmicemart.com > > On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Joshua, >> >> Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain >> discussion >> can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on >> Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this >> topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for >> this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a >> discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a >> high >> school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to >> offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not >> mature >> enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, >> why >> is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about >> the >> truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the >> first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents >> encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who >> knows anything about the education of children to teach their children >> about >> sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged >> (and >> often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of >> the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as >> young >> as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that >> has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we >> learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. >> Then >> we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do >> in >> regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and >> don't >> learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be >> properly >> prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that >> parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important >> that >> they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the >> real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at >> an >> early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of >> inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school >> students >> from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, >> borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as >> well >> as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world >> which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the >> option >> not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with >> reading, >> and that there were many people on this list and others who are much >> older >> than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as >> much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's >> right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school >> student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) >> does >> not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to >> discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for >> this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or >> being >> a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is >> the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just >> don't use my age as support for your claim that something is >> inappropriate >> for this list. >> >> Chris Nusbaum >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >> here. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> All, >> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >> >>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no >> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >> think >> Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. >> His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this >> December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again >> so >> I >> can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's >> blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is >> over. >> HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >> desires, >> and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous >> about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing >> and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he >> doesn't >> engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that >> sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He >> loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. >> If >> I >> look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad >> choice >> as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I >> see >> myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was >> truly >> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want >> to >> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >> whuaft >> I >> do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having >> Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good >> fortune >> blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good >> boyfriend. >> Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending >> an >> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me >> for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship >> that >> I >> don't like very much. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>> situations might find it helpful. >>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>> Hope this helps, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o >> nmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:18:09 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:18:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: do u know where i can find the accessable movies that were on blincemart.com i have a lot i am looking for On 9/7/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > which movies are you looking for? I might have them and then some. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tiffany miles" > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:09 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: > Long-Distance Dating > >> Hi all my name is Tiffany and I have a question I am trying to find >> free audio descriptive movies they were accessable on >> blindmicemart.com but are no longer there does anyone know where i can >> go to find movies like the ones on blindmicemart.com >> >> On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> >>> Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain >>> discussion >>> can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on >>> Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on >>> this >>> topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for >>> this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a >>> discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a >>> high >>> school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to >>> offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not >>> mature >>> enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, >>> why >>> is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about >>> the >>> truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the >>> first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our >>> parents >>> encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who >>> knows anything about the education of children to teach their children >>> about >>> sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged >>> (and >>> often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part >>> of >>> the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as >>> young >>> as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something >>> that >>> has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we >>> learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. >>> Then >>> we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do >>> in >>> regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and >>> don't >>> learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be >>> properly >>> prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that >>> parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important >>> that >>> they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the >>> real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex >>> at >>> an >>> early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of >>> inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school >>> students >>> from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, >>> borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as >>> well >>> as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real >>> world >>> which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the >>> option >>> not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with >>> reading, >>> and that there were many people on this list and others who are much >>> older >>> than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to >>> as >>> much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's >>> right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school >>> student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) >>> does >>> not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to >>> discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for >>> this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or >>> being >>> a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he >>> is >>> the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just >>> don't use my age as support for your claim that something is >>> inappropriate >>> for this list. >>> >>> Chris Nusbaum >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >>> here. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>> Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> All, >>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him >>> no >>> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >>> think >>> Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. >>> His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this >>> December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again >>> so >>> I >>> can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's >>> blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is >>> over. >>> HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >>> desires, >>> and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous >>> about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my >>> coaxing >>> and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he >>> doesn't >>> engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that >>> sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. >>> He >>> loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. >>> If >>> I >>> look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad >>> choice >>> as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I >>> see >>> myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was >>> truly >>> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't >>> want >>> to >>> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >>> whuaft >>> I >>> do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having >>> Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good >>> fortune >>> blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good >>> boyfriend. >>> Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without >>> sending >>> an >>> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents >>> me >>> for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship >>> that >>> I >>> don't like very much. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>>> m >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o >>> nmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:19:55 2012 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:19:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> Message-ID: <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> How often should we communicate? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 10:08 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your words represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: > >> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >> >>> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. >>> >>> Respectfully Submitted >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: >>> >>>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >>>> Koby >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >>>> >>>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>>>> >>>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>>> Koby >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has >> a >>>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From ray214 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:19:48 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:19:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <80086DC2028D42F8BD5D77213D50A446@RaymondPC> I can send you the link off of list. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:18 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating > do u know where i can find the accessable movies that were on > blincemart.com i have a lot i am looking for > > On 9/7/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >> which movies are you looking for? I might have them and then some. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "tiffany miles" >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:09 PM >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: >> Long-Distance Dating >> >>> Hi all my name is Tiffany and I have a question I am trying to find >>> free audio descriptive movies they were accessable on >>> blindmicemart.com but are no longer there does anyone know where i can >>> go to find movies like the ones on blindmicemart.com >>> >>> On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> >>>> Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain >>>> discussion >>>> can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on >>>> Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on >>>> this >>>> topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic >>>> for >>>> this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a >>>> discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a >>>> high >>>> school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to >>>> offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not >>>> mature >>>> enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual >>>> implication, >>>> why >>>> is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions >>>> about >>>> the >>>> truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn >>>> the >>>> first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our >>>> parents >>>> encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else >>>> who >>>> knows anything about the education of children to teach their children >>>> about >>>> sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged >>>> (and >>>> often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part >>>> of >>>> the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as >>>> young >>>> as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something >>>> that >>>> has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we >>>> learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. >>>> Then >>>> we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do >>>> in >>>> regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and >>>> don't >>>> learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be >>>> properly >>>> prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that >>>> parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important >>>> that >>>> they be honest with their children about what is really out there in >>>> the >>>> real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex >>>> at >>>> an >>>> early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of >>>> inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school >>>> students >>>> from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the >>>> extreme, >>>> borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as >>>> well >>>> as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real >>>> world >>>> which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the >>>> option >>>> not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with >>>> reading, >>>> and that there were many people on this list and others who are much >>>> older >>>> than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to >>>> as >>>> much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect >>>> everybody's >>>> right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high >>>> school >>>> student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) >>>> does >>>> not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to >>>> discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic >>>> for >>>> this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or >>>> being >>>> a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he >>>> is >>>> the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But >>>> just >>>> don't use my age as support for your claim that something is >>>> inappropriate >>>> for this list. >>>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >>>> here. >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of >>>> Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> All, >>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>> Koby >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him >>>> no >>>> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >>>> think >>>> Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in >>>> June. >>>> His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this >>>> December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again >>>> so >>>> I >>>> can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because >>>> he's >>>> blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is >>>> over. >>>> HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >>>> desires, >>>> and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are >>>> nervous >>>> about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my >>>> coaxing >>>> and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he >>>> doesn't >>>> engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that >>>> sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. >>>> He >>>> loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. >>>> If >>>> I >>>> look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad >>>> choice >>>> as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I >>>> see >>>> myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was >>>> truly >>>> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't >>>> want >>>> to >>>> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >>>> whuaft >>>> I >>>> do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having >>>> Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good >>>> fortune >>>> blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good >>>> boyfriend. >>>> Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without >>>> sending >>>> an >>>> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents >>>> me >>>> for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship >>>> that >>>> I >>>> don't like very much. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>>>> m >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o >>>> nmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:24:39 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:24:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] LSAT Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00e601cd8d71$7b81afd0$72850f70$@gmail.com> Jordan, Congratulations! Great work!! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 8:37 PM To: Blind Law Mailing List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Minnesota Association of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] LSAT Update Hi all, Just wanted you all to know that my LSAT Accommodations request was granted. Respectfully, Jordan Richardson Mn-abs president Sent from my iPod _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:25:32 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:25:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <80086DC2028D42F8BD5D77213D50A446@RaymondPC> References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> <80086DC2028D42F8BD5D77213D50A446@RaymondPC> Message-ID: that would be great raymond thanks On 9/7/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > I can send you the link off of list. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tiffany miles" > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:18 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: > Long-Distance Dating > >> do u know where i can find the accessable movies that were on >> blincemart.com i have a lot i am looking for >> >> On 9/7/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >>> which movies are you looking for? I might have them and then some. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "tiffany miles" >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 11:09 PM >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: >>> Long-Distance Dating >>> >>>> Hi all my name is Tiffany and I have a question I am trying to find >>>> free audio descriptive movies they were accessable on >>>> blindmicemart.com but are no longer there does anyone know where i can >>>> go to find movies like the ones on blindmicemart.com >>>> >>>> On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>> Joshua, >>>>> >>>>> Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain >>>>> discussion >>>>> can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment >>>>> on >>>>> Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on >>>>> this >>>>> topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic >>>>> for >>>>> this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a >>>>> discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a >>>>> high >>>>> school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go >>>>> to >>>>> offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not >>>>> mature >>>>> enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual >>>>> implication, >>>>> why >>>>> is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions >>>>> about >>>>> the >>>>> truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn >>>>> the >>>>> first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our >>>>> parents >>>>> encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else >>>>> who >>>>> knows anything about the education of children to teach their children >>>>> about >>>>> sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are >>>>> encouraged >>>>> (and >>>>> often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part >>>>> of >>>>> the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as >>>>> young >>>>> as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something >>>>> that >>>>> has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that >>>>> we >>>>> learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of >>>>> it. >>>>> Then >>>>> we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will >>>>> do >>>>> in >>>>> regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and >>>>> don't >>>>> learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be >>>>> properly >>>>> prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that >>>>> parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important >>>>> that >>>>> they be honest with their children about what is really out there in >>>>> the >>>>> real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex >>>>> at >>>>> an >>>>> early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of >>>>> inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school >>>>> students >>>>> from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the >>>>> extreme, >>>>> borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as >>>>> well >>>>> as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real >>>>> world >>>>> which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the >>>>> option >>>>> not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with >>>>> reading, >>>>> and that there were many people on this list and others who are much >>>>> older >>>>> than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to >>>>> as >>>>> much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect >>>>> everybody's >>>>> right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high >>>>> school >>>>> student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my >>>>> opinion) >>>>> does >>>>> not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to >>>>> discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic >>>>> for >>>>> this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or >>>>> being >>>>> a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he >>>>> is >>>>> the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But >>>>> just >>>>> don't use my age as support for your claim that something is >>>>> inappropriate >>>>> for this list. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >>>>> here. >>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of >>>>> Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>> Koby >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him >>>>> no >>>>> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >>>>> think >>>>> Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in >>>>> June. >>>>> His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this >>>>> December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it >>>>> again >>>>> so >>>>> I >>>>> can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because >>>>> he's >>>>> blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is >>>>> over. >>>>> HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >>>>> desires, >>>>> and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are >>>>> nervous >>>>> about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my >>>>> coaxing >>>>> and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he >>>>> doesn't >>>>> engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that >>>>> sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. >>>>> He >>>>> loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. >>>>> If >>>>> I >>>>> look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad >>>>> choice >>>>> as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I >>>>> see >>>>> myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was >>>>> truly >>>>> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't >>>>> want >>>>> to >>>>> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >>>>> whuaft >>>>> I >>>>> do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not >>>>> having >>>>> Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good >>>>> fortune >>>>> blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good >>>>> boyfriend. >>>>> Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without >>>>> sending >>>>> an >>>>> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents >>>>> me >>>>> for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship >>>>> that >>>>> I >>>>> don't like very much. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a >>>>>> long-distance >>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be >>>>>> living >>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think >>>>>> if >>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to >>>>>> see >>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >>>>>> m >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o >>>>> nmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 03:32:47 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 22:32:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> Message-ID: <831EB34E-8D83-4C9D-8FCC-4E17B44FDDBF@samobile.net> If you're considering physical intimacy, you probably want to communicate often. Otherwise, you run the risk making a choice that's not in your best interest. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 10:19 PM, Koby wrote: > How often should we communicate? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 10:08 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your words represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: >> >>> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >>> >>>> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. >>>> >>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >>>>> Koby >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to the point where these questions become central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>>>> Koby >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He ha > s >>> a >>>>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:39:44 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 20:39:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their health centers. I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he has protection for his gender. Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help there... Koby, Just say what you feel and know she is not a mind reader. Be honest and if you question, take note of your response when you are emotional and just sleep on it. If in the morning you are still happy with what you are wanting to say, send it. But when you are talking on the phone or Skype, just know that words are words, they are just week expletives for the thoughts and feelings inside. In my opinion, art and using language to say the most it possibly can is the most fascinating way to communicate. But of course that doesn't help if you are trying to figure out a place to go on a date. In my experience, there are few women who will have sex on the first date. It may just be me, but if sex is something you really want with this woman, I would in the date itself, gently see how far physically she is willing to go. If she gives you a good make out session, that probably means that it is OK for you to be touching her shoulders, back, arms and possibly her leg, closer to her knee. If you are doing that it is a pretty easy thing to read someone's intentions. It may also not hurt to menschen even before you meet this girl that you like women who are forward in their intentions because you are a bumbling oaf when it comes to reading women :P. It would be fascinating to hear what women think on first date subjects and their opinion on hooking up on the first date... I don't think it is very common, lets just say that. But all the girlfriends I have had I have asked them about their sexual status and history before I really consider having sex with them. Often times bringing up sex and past boyfriends in conversation will get her opinion on sex. If she has never had sex, it may be good to point her to some books on virgin sex, because it is something both partners should be aware of. But again, I am a guy and this advice is not coming from a woman. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Koby Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each > other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no > good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I > think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in > June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't > this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it > again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just > because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his > life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids > if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some > men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the > help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. > At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other > inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good > sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), > though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I > see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. > Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid > email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did > that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I > love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can > do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this > relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. > Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, > how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really > want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that > email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like > very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:45:07 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:45:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Joshua, How about instead of being condescending because you're uncomfortable with the topic at hand, you just don't respond to messages that make you uncomfortable? Oh boy, what a novel concept! Besides, whether you like it or not, high schoolers have in fact heard the word sex. Sex itself isn't a dirty word, nor is it an inherently dirty and shameful act. And, guess what, many high schoolers have sex, and not all of them are drug addicts or derelicts, either. This guy obviously is having trouble figuring out what a relationship consists of. Do you really want to shoot him down by being so ignorant? On 9/7/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no >> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I >> think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in >> June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't >> this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it >> again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just >> because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his >> life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids >> if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some >> men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the >> help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. >> At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other >> inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good >> sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), >> though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I >> see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. >> Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid >> email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did >> that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I >> love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can >> do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this >> relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. >> Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, >> how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really >> want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that >> email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like >> very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:45:01 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 21:45:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Message-ID: <504abf73.eac2320a.7ccb.427a@mx.google.com> Tell her to low it down. Things may be rushed if you do that ex thing now. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Koby wrote: Hi, Arielle and all, Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman I've been overprotected till I met my ex, and then the sexual question came up. High schoolers need to know these things because teenagers often ask these questions about sex and stuff. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: SA Mobile wrote: Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: Hi, Arielle and all, Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Very well said, Chris. I feel we need to ask questions about sex that even our parents won't tell u. There were discussions at conventions past about teenage issues, including sex. Adrienne Asch led a discussion about blind teen women issues. I was told I could not have sex until marriage, but for me, when is marriage as a blind woman? Jason and I are perfectly ok with each other, and I see my life with him as the best life I've ever had so far, and even at a distance, Jason and I, both being blind, have questions. He loves me, and I do him, but because my parents were so overprotective, men think I am using them to get out of what my parents set up. They want protection, even from sexual matters, and they want me to marry, if anything, a man with a job. Jason's heart condition prevents him from seeking and retaining employment. I could be deemed unemployable due to bipolar disorder. Chris, you said it all quite right. Lots of u are unemployed, so I think we're further at rik for contracting HIV and AIDS and other STI's. Sex matters! Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: Hi, Arielle and all, Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com><7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com><0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net><470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com><4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net><05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com><0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net><4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> <831EB34E-8D83-4C9D-8FCC-4E17B44FDDBF@samobile.net> Message-ID: Hello, More you communicate, more you will need to find things to talk about. I had a girlfriend that called me 5-15 times a day and each call lasted from 10 mins to 3 hours. I had another girlfriend who would send me like 5 texts a day. I thought the first was excessive and the second was very unresponsive. I would call her though if you want something cereous. Texting has its place, but not in a relationship that may be something more than a word here and there. I would insist on 2 or 3 phone or face to face conversations a week. Because more than that you are approaching on being annoying. Less than that you will never get to know her. If calling is too difficult, than that relationship will either be a friend with benefit's or not working. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: SA Mobile Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating If you're considering physical intimacy, you probably want to communicate often. Otherwise, you run the risk making a choice that's not in your best interest. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 10:19 PM, Koby wrote: > How often should we communicate? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 10:08 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your words >> represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: >> >>> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we >>> communicate? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. >>>> Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. >>>> Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the >>>> responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have >>>> plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other >>>> ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. >>>> >>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >>>>> Koby >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get >>>>>> graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as >>>>>> anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual >>>>>> and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are >>>>>> overprotected to the point where these questions become central when >>>>>> we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you >>>>>> and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You >>>>>> don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers >>>>>>> on here. >>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>> behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All, >>>>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>>>> Koby >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>>>>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call >>>>>>>> him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it >>>>>>>> about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so >>>>>>>> much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, >>>>>>>> but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make >>>>>>>> it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with >>>>>>>> him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart >>>>>>>> issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE >>>>>>>> can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >>>>>>>> desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some >>>>>>>> men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with >>>>>>>> the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy >>>>>>>> himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child >>>>>>>> porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage >>>>>>>> in. He ha > s >>> a >>>>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. >>>>>>> (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the >>>>>>> clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led >>>>>>> to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at >>>>>>> fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly >>>>>>> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't >>>>>>> want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does >>>>>>> to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's >>>>>>> emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship >>>>>>> is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. >>>>>>> Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all >>>>>>> of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an >>>>>>> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom >>>>>>> resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the >>>>>>> relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more >>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a >>>>>>>> long-distance >>>>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very >>>>>>>> hard >>>>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current >>>>>>>> boyfriend >>>>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be >>>>>>>> living >>>>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I >>>>>>>> enjoyed >>>>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to >>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see >>>>>>>> each >>>>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:54:03 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:54:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE: Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> References: <00d501cd8d6d$80af5ba0$820e12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Very well said! I'm really glad you have such a healthy attitude about this. You certainly seem mature for your age and I applaud you for eloquently saying what I don't think I could have nearly as well. On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Joshua, > > Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain discussion > can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on > Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this > topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for > this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a > discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a high > school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to > offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not > mature > enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, > why > is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about > the > truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the > first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents > encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who > knows anything about the education of children to teach their children > about > sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged > (and > often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of > the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as young > as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that > has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we > learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. > Then > we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do in > regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and don't > learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be > properly > prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that > parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important that > they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the > real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at > an > early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of > inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school students > from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, > borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as well > as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world > which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the option > not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with > reading, > and that there were many people on this list and others who are much older > than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as > much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's > right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school > student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) > does > not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to > discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for > this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or being > a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is > the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just > don't use my age as support for your claim that something is inappropriate > for this list. > > Chris Nusbaum > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Arielle and all, >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each > other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no > good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think > Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. > His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this > December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so > I > can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's > blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. > HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, > and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous > about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing > and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't > engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that > sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He > loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If > I > look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice > as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see > myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly > upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want > to > share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft > I > do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having > Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune > blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good > boyfriend. > Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending > an > email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me > for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that > I > don't like very much. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> Hi all, >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >> situations might find it helpful. >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >> Hope this helps, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.co >> m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o > nmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 03:57:55 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:57:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> <831EB34E-8D83-4C9D-8FCC-4E17B44FDDBF@samobile.net> Message-ID: I see no problem with talking on the phone with someone every day as long as it doesn't become obsessive. I'd say an hour or two a day is reasonable. If you're in a long distance relationship, you need that level of communication, because you're not geting those hours in with face-to-face interactions and dates. Texting is the same way, it should never be your primary method of communication, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with texting the person when you wake up in the morning just to say you're thinking of them, providing the other person is OK with that, of course. Mornings and nights are the most vulnerable times, I've found, because those are the times you're most relaxed and wishing you could be near your significant other. So I say getting that need met in whatever way you can definitly beats being depressed because you can't be together at the moment. On 9/7/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > More you communicate, more you will need to find things to talk about. I had > > a girlfriend that called me 5-15 times a day and each call lasted from 10 > mins to 3 hours. I had another girlfriend who would send me like 5 texts a > day. I thought the first was excessive and the second was very unresponsive. > > I would call her though if you want something cereous. Texting has its > place, but not in a relationship that may be something more than a word here > > and there. I would insist on 2 or 3 phone or face to face conversations a > week. Because more than that you are approaching on being annoying. Less > than that you will never get to know her. If calling is too difficult, than > > that relationship will either be a friend with benefit's or not working. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: SA Mobile > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > If you're considering physical intimacy, you probably want to communicate > often. Otherwise, you run the risk making a choice that's not in your best > interest. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 07/09/2012, at 10:19 PM, Koby wrote: > >> How often should we communicate? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 10:08 PM, SA Mobile >> wrote: >> >>> That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your words >>> represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. >>> >>> Respectfully Submitted >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: >>> >>>> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we >>>> communicate? >>>> Koby >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. >>>>> >>>>> Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. >>>>> Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the >>>>> >>>>> responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have >>>>> >>>>> plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other >>>>> ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >>>>>> Koby >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get >>>>>>> >>>>>>> graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as >>>>>>> anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are >>>>>>> overprotected to the point where these questions become central when >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You >>>>>>> don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers >>>>>>>> on here. >>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>> behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All, >>>>>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>>>>>> Koby >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>>>>>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it >>>>>>>>> about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, >>>>>>>>> but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make >>>>>>>>> it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with >>>>>>>>> him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart >>>>>>>>> issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE >>>>>>>>> can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so >>>>>>>>> desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some >>>>>>>>> men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy >>>>>>>>> himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage >>>>>>>>> in. He ha >> s >>>> a >>>>>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. >>>>>>>> (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly >>>>>>>> upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does >>>>>>>> to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's >>>>>>>> emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship >>>>>>>> is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. >>>>>>>> Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all >>>>>>>> of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an >>>>>>>> email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom >>>>>>>> resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> relationship that I don't like very much. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more >>>>>>>>> relevant >>>>>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, >>>>>>>>> especially >>>>>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for >>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a >>>>>>>>> long-distance >>>>>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>>>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very >>>>>>>>> hard >>>>>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current >>>>>>>>> boyfriend >>>>>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be >>>>>>>>> living >>>>>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I >>>>>>>>> enjoyed >>>>>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see >>>>>>>>> each >>>>>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>>>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 04:09:26 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:09:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] blind mice megamall Message-ID: <504ac52c.81c1320a.05b6.47f1@mx.google.com> I would love to download movie files myself. Blind Mice Mart i now Blind Mice Megamall for your info, Tiffany. Thanks. Beth From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 04:16:38 2012 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:16:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blind mice megamall In-Reply-To: <504ac52c.81c1320a.05b6.47f1@mx.google.com> References: <504ac52c.81c1320a.05b6.47f1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It's kind of tricky now, but here's what you need to do to download movies: First, go to www.blindmicemegamall.com. Then register for an account. Once you're account is created, go back to the homepage and log in. From there, you'll find the movie vault. It's been updated so searching is a lot easier, and it's getting updates frequently. Patrick On 9/8/12, Beth wrote: > I would love to download movie files myself. Blind Mice Mart i > now Blind Mice Megamall for your info, Tiffany. Thanks. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 04:19:56 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:19:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blind mice megamall In-Reply-To: References: <504ac52c.81c1320a.05b6.47f1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: hi patrick thanks On 9/8/12, Patrick Molloy wrote: > It's kind of tricky now, but here's what you need to do to download > movies: First, go to www.blindmicemegamall.com. Then register for an > account. Once you're account is created, go back to the homepage and > log in. From there, you'll find the movie vault. It's been updated so > searching is a lot easier, and it's getting updates frequently. > Patrick > > On 9/8/12, Beth wrote: >> I would love to download movie files myself. Blind Mice Mart i >> now Blind Mice Megamall for your info, Tiffany. Thanks. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 8 04:32:19 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:32:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Koby, We cannot answer that for you. Its personal. Do you feel ready? If you don't want to create a baby, have safe sex, and find out what it means. I won't go into protection techniques as its off topic. Do you trust her enough? If it does not feel comfortable to you, say no. I'd have to say though that one who has sex on their first face to face encounter seems like nuts to me. I mean you said you don't even know her well and just reconnected with her! Really think about it Koby. I also would think about your religious beliefs. Do you really believe in sex before marriage? I do not, but there are many, many other reasons I would not advise sex on the first encounter with a girl I just reconnected with! They include its too intimate, not feeling ready, not able to enjoy it with a stranger and the fear of an STD. So that is my ideas. But as I said it’s a very personal decission. Koby, just think of the ramifications of your choices before doing it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Koby Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each > other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no > good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I > think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in > June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't > this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it > again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just > because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his > life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids > if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some > men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the > help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. > At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other > inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good > sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), > though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I > see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. > Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid > email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did > that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I > love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can > do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this > relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. > Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, > how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really > want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that > email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like > very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 8 04:36:00 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:36:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com><7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com><0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net><470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> Message-ID: <9843D756D33B4273BFA3EEF56B4A3382@OwnerPC> Jedi, great advice. That is what I meant. I wouldn't rush into physical intimacy. Koby, talk it over and think through it. Do you really want to rush into it with a girl you seem to be reacquainting yourself with? Joshua, while I share your views on sex and marriage, we cannot tell people to stop talking it over. We are not the moderators, and besides as Jedi said, its an issue people struggle with. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: SA Mobile Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 10:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. Respectfully Submitted Sent from my iPhone On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > Yes. How should I convey this to her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get >> graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, >> maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are >> not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to >> the point where these questions become central when we finally experience >> true autonomy for the first time. >> >> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you and >> do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't have >> to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >>> here. >>> Thanks, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>> Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>> >>> All, >>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>> Koby >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him >>>> no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. >>>> I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met >>>> in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she >>>> won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay >>>> for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know >>>> that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't >>>> mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, >>>> he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's >>>> whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even >>>> Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to >>>> enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of >>>> child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage >>>> in. He has a >>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee >>> hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock >>> back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to >>> believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault >>> for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at >>> sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to >>> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >>> whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying >>> not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds >>> of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you >>> have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with >>> Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him >>> again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's >>> the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 8 04:40:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com><7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com><0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net><470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com><4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> Message-ID: Koby, You can only answer that. You seem unsure of yourself. I suggest you discuss this with your family or any close friends you have. Without knowing the situation, we cannot suggest words. I'll just say be honest but listen to her too. Express your feelings but don't be rude. Try to comprimise to make things work out. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Koby Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 10:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same page. > Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional consequences. Consider > these carefully and decide as a couple how you will handle the > responsibilities involved. Above all, don't rush into things. You have > plenty of time that you can use to develop your relationship im other ways > that make physical intimacy more meaningful for you. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > >> Yes. How should I convey this to her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: >> >>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things don't get >>> graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as much as anyone, >>> maybe more because of the misperception that we are aesexual and/or are >>> not capable of making these decisions. Some of us are overprotected to >>> the point where these questions become central when we finally >>> experience true autonomy for the first time. >>> >>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean for you >>> and do you feel your relationship is at that level of meaning? You don't >>> have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on >>>> here. >>>> Thanks, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>> >>>> All, >>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >>>> Koby >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, >>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each >>>>> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him >>>>> no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. >>>>> I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we >>>>> met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid >>>>> she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to >>>>> pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to >>>>> know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that >>>>> doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a >>>>> relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in >>>>> sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and >>>>> relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm >>>>> manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't >>>>> engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that >>>>> sighted men would engage in. He has a >>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee >>>> hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock >>>> back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to >>>> believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault >>>> for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at >>>> sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to >>>> share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or >>>> whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying >>>> not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds >>>> of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you >>>> have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with >>>> Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him >>>> again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. >>>> That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very >>>> much. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to >>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance >>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant >>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially >>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many >>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because >>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar >>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance >>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to >>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar >>>>> situations might find it helpful. >>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I >>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that >>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still >>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard >>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my >>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for >>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I >>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend >>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living >>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed >>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if >>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see >>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and >>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is >>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that >>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that >>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a >>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each >>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the >>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on >>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. >>>>> Hope this helps, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 04:40:16 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies Message-ID: hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until they update again From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 8 05:47:20 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:47:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120907224428.01e94360@comcast.net> Evening, Koby, Lover since although you two have yet to have bodily, sex you spend a lot of time having sex upon a mental, plane as well as contemplating the scenario. sexy, hot stuff, Ms. wonderful... Good luck and remember, terms of endearment ar only meaningful, I've found if coming from the heart or the loins. type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when we communicate? >Koby >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > > > Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the same > page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional > consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how > you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't > rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to > develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy > more meaningful for you. > > > > Respectfully Submitted > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > > > >> Yes. How should I convey this to her? > >> Koby > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> > >>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things > don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as > much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are > aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of > us are overprotected to the point where these questions become > central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. > >>> > >>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean > for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of > meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. > >>> > >>> Respectfully, > >>> Jedi > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high > schoolers on here. > >>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > >>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >>>> > >>>> All, > >>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > >>>> Koby > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, > >>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on > each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people > call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it > about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so > much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, > but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make > it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with > him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart > issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE > can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some > men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with > the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy > himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child > porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a > >>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for > breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back > and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as > some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I > see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because > I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really > inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love > Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I > can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near > me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune > blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good > boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's > family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, > and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's > the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > >>>>> Beth > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > >>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > >>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > >>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > >>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > >>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > >>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > >>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > >>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > >>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > >>>>> situations might find it helpful. > >>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > >>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > >>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > >>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > >>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > >>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > >>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > >>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > >>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > >>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > >>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > >>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > >>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > >>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > >>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > >>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > >>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > >>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > >>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > >>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > >>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > >>>>> Hope this helps, > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >>>>> se%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 8 06:04:37 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:04:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120907230344.01bf7ea8@comcast.net> You said it! Grow up, Josh and think of simply not responding to those messages that cause your little, hands to grow clammy.At 08:45 PM 9/7/2012, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >Joshua, >How about instead of being condescending because you're uncomfortable >with the topic at hand, you just don't respond to messages that make >you uncomfortable? Oh boy, what a novel concept! >Besides, whether you like it or not, high schoolers have in fact heard >the word sex. Sex itself isn't a dirty word, nor is it an inherently >dirty and shameful act. And, guess what, many high schoolers have sex, >and not all of them are drug addicts or derelicts, either. This guy >obviously is having trouble figuring out what a relationship consists >of. Do you really want to shoot him down by being so ignorant? > >On 9/7/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > > Thanks, Joshua > > ________________________________________ > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > > > All, > > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > > Koby > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > > > >> Hi, Arielle and all, > >> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each > >> other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no > >> good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I > >> think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in > >> June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't > >> this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it > >> again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just > >> because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his > >> life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids > >> if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some > >> men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the > >> help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. > >> At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other > >> inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good > >> sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), > >> though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I > >> see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. > >> Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid > >> email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did > >> that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I > >> love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can > >> do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this > >> relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. > >> Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, > >> how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really > >> want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that > >> email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like > >> very much. > >> Beth > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > >> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > >> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > >> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > >> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > >> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > >> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > >> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a long-distance > >> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > >> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > >> situations might find it helpful. > >> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > >> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > >> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > >> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > >> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > >> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > >> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > >> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > >> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be living > >> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > >> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I think if > >> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way to see > >> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > >> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > >> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > >> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > >> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > >> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > >> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > >> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > >> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > >> Hope this helps, > >> Arielle > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >> se%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 8 06:10:21 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:10:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <0DD666E9-3258-49B7-9C8E-610E34367C3D@samobile.net> <470B73C4-5224-4E5E-AFD1-4F840D6B5EBC@gmail.com> <4B480896-7CD6-4278-8D47-0A4B0CB67F36@samobile.net> <05917A1B-E234-4188-BB88-1C6456C22397@gmail.com> <0BC62241-6D39-478B-855A-E9C1F2A366E8@samobile.net> <4912C0A4-F16D-4C9E-8122-93D60DEA0129@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120907230654.01e6b310@comcast.net> Hi, Koby, With all due respect, this stuff isn't rocket science. If you think of each other as much as you say, you ought simply to be moved to initiate reaching out to your honey! Matters of the heart usually are not sciences, with a correct recipe, or perscription. If you feel it, chances are it's okay to follow your heart. She will probably aplaud you! Loving, Car 08:19 PM 9/7/2012, Koby wrote: >How often should we communicate? >Koby >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 7, 2012, at 10:08 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > > > That is a question only you can answer. Just be sure that your > words represent your inner truth and are considerate of her feelings. > > > > Respectfully Submitted > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 07/09/2012, at 9:42 PM, Koby wrote: > > > >> What type of words should I use with her on a Dailey basis when > we communicate? > >> Koby > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:32 PM, SA Mobile wrote: > >> > >>> Communicate honestly with her. Make sure you are both on the > same page. Also remember that sex has physical amd emotional > consequences. Consider these carefully and decide as a couple how > you will handle the responsibilities involved. Above all, don't > rush into things. You have plenty of time that you can use to > develop your relationship im other ways that make physical intimacy > more meaningful for you. > >>> > >>> Respectfully Submitted > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 07/09/2012, at 9:20 PM, Koby wrote: > >>> > >>>> Yes. How should I convey this to her? > >>>> Koby > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:13 PM, SA Mobile > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> His question is appropriate in my opinion so long as things > don't get graphic. Blind people struggle with these questions as > much as anyone, maybe more because of the misperception that we are > aesexual and/or are not capable of making these decisions. Some of > us are overprotected to the point where these questions become > central when we finally experience true autonomy for the first time. > >>>>> > >>>>> Koby, do you feel ready for sex? What does that activity mean > for you and do you feel your relationship is at that level of > meaning? You don't have to answer publicly, it's just something to consider. > >>>>> > >>>>> Respectfully, > >>>>> Jedi > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>> On 07/09/2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high > schoolers on here. > >>>>>> Thanks, Joshua > >>>>>> ________________________________________ > >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All, > >>>>>> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > >>>>>> Koby > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, Arielle and all, > >>>>>>> Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on > each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people > call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it > about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so > much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, > but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make > it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with > him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart > issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE > can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so > desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some > men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with > the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy > himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child > porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has > >> a > >>>>>> good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for > breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back > and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as > some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I > see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because > I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really > inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love > Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I > can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near > me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune > blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good > boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's > family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, > and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's > the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. > >>>>>>> Beth > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 23:01:32 -0600 > >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > >>>>>>> blindness-related discussions. However, I do think long-distance > >>>>>>> dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more relevant > >>>>>>> to us blind students than they are for sighted students, especially > >>>>>>> those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for many > >>>>>>> reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and because > >>>>>>> our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > >>>>>>> situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a > long-distance > >>>>>>> relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd like to > >>>>>>> offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > >>>>>>> situations might find it helpful. > >>>>>>> During college I was in a long-distance relationship with someone I > >>>>>>> met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret that > >>>>>>> decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are still > >>>>>>> friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very hard > >>>>>>> to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between my > >>>>>>> location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other for > >>>>>>> five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not think I > >>>>>>> would do another long-distance relationship and my current boyfriend > >>>>>>> and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have > to be living > >>>>>>> in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I enjoyed > >>>>>>> the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. > I think if > >>>>>>> you and this girl really like each other and you can find a > way to see > >>>>>>> each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in trying and > >>>>>>> you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it is > >>>>>>> something to give a little serious thought to before you make that > >>>>>>> kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make sure that > >>>>>>> the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > >>>>>>> relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see each > >>>>>>> other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused about the > >>>>>>> relationship than the other. But if the two of you are generally on > >>>>>>> the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > >>>>>>> Hope this helps, > >>>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From ray214 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 12:00:07 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:00:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52DDD70259064AAA910CEAB4250E9F12@RaymondPC> you're very welcome. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 12:40 AM To: Subject: [nabs-l] movies > hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately > i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until > they update again > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From sjhhirst at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 13:56:58 2012 From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie Hirst DeLuca) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 08:56:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: voting accessibility References: <169538947A2BAC4694FA18579A4F871004F68B@BL2PRD0711MB397.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <-1008748084102579088@unknownmsgid> Sorry about that Begin forwarded message: *From:* "Blake, Lou Ann" *Date:* September 7, 2012 2:27:19 PM CDT *To:* Stephanie DeLuca *Subject:* *RE: voting accessibility* Hi Stephanie, Thanks so much for your e-mail! I am very glad to hear that the members of the blind students division are interested in accessible voting. The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires that at least one accessible voting machine be provided in every polling place for all federal elections. Therefore, there should be at least one accessible voting machine in every polling place for the upcoming presidential election on November 6th. However, HAVA does not apply to state and local elections, so when a blind voter goes to her local polling place for a state/local election there may not be an accessible voting machine available. It has been my experience, both personal and from what other blind voters have told me, that the biggest barrier to a blind voter's ability to cast a private and independent ballot is the untrained poll worker who does not know how to set-up or operate the accessible voting machine. In most of these instances, if the blind voter is patient and politely insist that she wants to use the accessible voting machine, the poll workers are able to get the accessible machine operating. When a blind voter is not able to cast a private and independent vote because an accessible machine is not present or the poll workers cannot get it operating, she should file a complaint with her state board of elections. I have attached The Blind Voter's Guide, which provides additional information about the rights of blind voters. This guide was prepared under the Jernigan Institute's 2008-2009 HAVA grant from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Please feel free to distribute this guide to other blind voters. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me. Best regards, Lou Ann Lou Ann Blake, J.D. HAVA Project Manager and Law Symposium Coordinator Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, MD 21230 Telephone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2221 Fax: (410) 659-5129 E-mail: lblake at nfb.org Web site: www.nfb.org Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund via your phone bill. -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie DeLuca [mailto:sjhhirst at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 2:49 PM To: Blake, Lou Ann Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: voting accessibility Dear Lou Ann, The National Association of Blind Students (NABS) has been discussing voting accessibility lately, especially since, as students, we are all in a good place to inform the public about the need for accessible voting and educating blind/VI voters on their rights and responsibilities. One key part of this is that we need to know what exactly ARE our rights and responsibilities? Which laws should we read? Do you know how we can access that information? We all feel that this is quite important, as voting is something that every citizen has a right to do, but several stories have been shared on the list in which the blind/VI voter was not able to vote in private using the "accessible" voting machine. We look forward to hearing from you soon! Thanks! Stephanie DeLuca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Lrg Prnt HAVA08_Blind_Voter's_Guide.doc Type: application/msword Size: 65024 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 17:00:57 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:00:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Message-ID: Hi all, I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. There are a few places to buy condoms online, including www.condomania.com www.undercovercondoms.com and www.condomdepot.com Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at www.amazon.com If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind of information: www.plannedparenthood.org (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or www.scarleteen.com This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which these online forums will talk about. I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. Best, Arielle From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 17:36:08 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:36:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving the room. Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not pleasant. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Hi all, I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. There are a few places to buy condoms online, including www.condomania.com www.undercovercondoms.com and www.condomdepot.com Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at www.amazon.com If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind of information: www.plannedparenthood.org (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or www.scarleteen.com This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which these online forums will talk about. I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 18:06:45 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:06:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Message-ID: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> Unfortunately for me, my privacy as an adult patient i violated on a daily bais if I'm in Florida with my parents. They want protection, protection, protection, but there' nothing wrong with telling them to go away at thi point. I am not going to tell you guy whether or not I wa exually active, but I have a quetsion. Mot of u are on Medicaid, right? I wonder if any of you can tell me whether a government ervice uch a Medicaid will cover birth control pills. I've been told to try birth control, but I already take mental health meds, o I wonder if I should put even more bad chemical in my body, and the other thing i that government insurance may not cover birth control because it' the government. I don't know because of thoe comment made by the demagogue Limbaugh (ome p0o9litical people might know whuat I"m talking about.) And if we elect the wrong peron, I might not be able to get free birth control. Thank. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Hello all, I am fairly new to the list, so I apologize if this topic has already been discussed. I am finishing up my English minor and my courses are getting much more research intensive. I have no problems finding articles that I can use for research, but am not as successful at finding accessible books. The research I will mostly be doing revolves around culture and literary criticism. In the past, I have utilized bookshare, amazon, ibooks, and NLS. Sometimes I find what I'm looking for, but not always. I am aware of Learning Ally, but can't afford the membership fee at this time. I would love to hear your feedback and what sources you use for obtaining braille, audio, and electronic books. Thank you for your help. Sincerely, Ashley Bradner From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 19:37:57 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 15:37:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Promises" - Reflections School of Dance Message-ID: <27475568-1382-4539-94E0-CADEFEF3F3C3@gmail.com> Check out this video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbRHSSy9jQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 20:43:31 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 13:43:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Promises" - Reflections School of Dance In-Reply-To: <27475568-1382-4539-94E0-CADEFEF3F3C3@gmail.com> References: <27475568-1382-4539-94E0-CADEFEF3F3C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <066854A5B6FC4B7AA4C96F2F407E7836@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, What is it? The video is just a song... Thanks, Brando Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 12:37 PM To: tiffany miles ; Ty ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; Brittney 1 Subject: [nabs-l] "Promises" - Reflections School of Dance Check out this video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JbRHSSy9jQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 21:47:02 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 15:47:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> References: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, Regarding privacy and decisionmaking: I am pasting some information to the bottom of this email regarding the conditions under which your parents are legally allowed to take charge of your medical and other life decisions. I do not know your mental health history well enough to judge whether or not your parents' involvement is still justified, but if you feel they are overstepping their bounds, you may want to consult with the psychologist who wrote this blurb (who happens to be based in Florida). His contact info is at the bottom of this message. Best, Arielle A: Competency, in civil legal terminology, refers to the capacity to make independent decisions and conduct legal and financial transactions on one's own behalf. Adults are generally presumed competent to handle their own affairs, but this presumption may be set aside by law if there is compelling evidence to the contrary. Both the state and private parties, usually family members, may raise the issue. If the court declares a person to be incompetent, that person is usually appointed a guardian, who is legally empowered to make decisions regarding another individual's person and property. Again, this is often a family member, but in some cases the court itself becomes the guardian, and then the person is declared a ward of the court. The role of the psychological expert in a determination of incompetency is to conduct an evaluation of the individual's mental function via a thorough clinical examination, review of records, interview of family members or other collaterals, and the administration of a number of psychological and neuropsychological tests. Mental function skills relevant to competency include attention, concentration, reality orientation, memory, reasoning, judgment, emotional state, and especially knowledge and appreciation of the nature and purposes of the decisions that are the subject of the competency action (e.g. manage finances) and the ability to carry them out (mathematical ability or knowledge of banking rules, investing, etc.). The law's presumptions of competency of its adult citizens means that the burden of proof is generally on the party challenging the subject's competency, and what defines "competency" often differs from case to case. For example, the type or degree of mental impairment that would render an individual incompetent to make a will or manage finances, might not be sufficient to deprive them of their right to marry or consent to medical treatment. Another complication is the nature of the clinical syndrome that produces the incompetency, which falls into three major classes. First are relatively stable conditions such as severe mental retardation or autism which present lifelong disability, and for which the need for permanent guardianship is evident. Second are slowly progressive syndromes, such as schizophrenia or Alzheimer's disease, where the point at which impairment worsens to a level warranting incompetency may hardly be clear-cut. Third are abrupt-onset impairments in mental functioning in a previously healthy individual, such as from a stroke, traumatic brain injury, or bipolar manic episode. In addition to the issue of impairment level, these are syndromes that may actually show improvement over time, so a person incompetent at one point may well meet formal criteria for competency a year later. The problem is that, in most jurisdictions, guardianships are plenary, that is, they don't distinguish between different types of competencies (medical, marital, financial), and they don't include time limits. A person that has recovered from a brain injury, for example, may now have the burden of proof of demonstrating restoration of competency and setting aside the guardianship. Guardians may not always be willing to relinquish their control. For their part, guardians should consider that they are obliged to be responsible and legally liable for the actions of their ward. To reduce such risks, some guardians may restrict and control their wards even more than necessary. When difficulties in this area arise, parties should seek both legal and psychological counseling. Laurence Miller, PhD is a clinical, forensic, and consulting psychologist in Boca Raton, Florida. This information is for educational purposes only, and is not intended to make a clinical diagnosis or render a legal opinion. Dr. Miller can be reached at 561-392-8881, or at docmilphd at aol.com. On 9/8/12, Beth wrote: > Unfortunately for me, my privacy as an adult patient i violated > on a daily bais if I'm in Florida with my parents. They want > protection, protection, protection, but there' nothing wrong with > telling them to go away at thi point. I am not going to tell you > guy whether or not I wa exually active, but I have a quetsion. > Mot of u are on Medicaid, right? I wonder if any of you can tell > me whether a government ervice uch a Medicaid will cover birth > control pills. I've been told to try birth control, but I > already take mental health meds, o I wonder if I should put even > more bad chemical in my body, and the other thing i that > government insurance may not cover birth control because it' the > government. I don't know because of thoe comment made by the > demagogue Limbaugh (ome p0o9litical people might know whuat I"m > talking about.) And if we elect the wrong peron, I might not be > able to get free birth control. Thank. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:00:57 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in > a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, > since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to > blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, > I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one > and > that there might be other blind people out here, including > teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control > or > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to > depend > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can > make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it > shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with > a > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I > feel > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the > first > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for > preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms > and > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this > kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment > because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control > pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe > that > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some > responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing > the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other > ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to > sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might > also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive > you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my > home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' > appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while > he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw > many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity > to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she > was > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor > recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while > it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an > adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was > seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and > in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are > 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right > to > privacy of your medical information and it is important to > establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person > interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the > time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your > sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents > being > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should > know > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go > to the > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of > you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 8 22:15:48 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 16:15:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Message-ID: <504bc3cb.c4bb320a.331a.ffff99bd@mx.google.com> I can't believe this, Arielle. I'll have to tell you ometime over the phone. Do you want my number? I'll be happy to talk to you off lit. Email me for my number. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Unfortunately for me, my privacy as an adult patient i violated on a daily bais if I'm in Florida with my parents. They want protection, protection, protection, but there' nothing wrong with telling them to go away at thi point. I am not going to tell you guy whether or not I wa exually active, but I have a quetsion. Mot of u are on Medicaid, right? I wonder if any of you can tell me whether a government ervice uch a Medicaid will cover birth control pills. I've been told to try birth control, but I already take mental health meds, o I wonder if I should put even more bad chemical in my body, and the other thing i that government insurance may not cover birth control because it' the government. I don't know because of thoe comment made by the demagogue Limbaugh (ome p0o9litical people might know whuat I"m talking about.) And if we elect the wrong peron, I might not be able to get free birth control. Thank. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Very well stated, and you are absolutely right! We can continue this conversation on Skype, once I've actually signed on and added your new account... ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth I can confirm what Beth and Desiree have said, as I myself am a teenager and am in high school. Sex often is brought up at the lunch table and in other social settings, and I believe it is important for us to know the truth about it. Please see my more detailed message from last night with the subject "adult discussions and high school students." Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth wrote: Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth Hi Desiree, That's very kind! Thank you!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Desiree Oudinot wrote: Joshua, Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain discussion can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a high school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not mature enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, why is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about the truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who knows anything about the education of children to teach their children about sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged (and often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as young as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. Then we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do in regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and don't learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be properly prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important that they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at an early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school students from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as well as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the option not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with reading, and that there were many people on this list and others who are much older than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) does not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or being a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just don't use my age as support for your claim that something is inappropriate for this list. Chris Nusbaum -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: Hi, Arielle and all, Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on each other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people call him no good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about him. I think Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met in June. His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't this December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for it again so I can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just because he's blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his life is over. HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he so desires, and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are nervous about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of my coaxing and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least he doesn't engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things that sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and wrong. He loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs myself. If I look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a bad choice as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, and I see myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because I was truly upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I don't want to share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me or whuaft I do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not having Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of good fortune blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a good boyfriend. Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family without sending an email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom resents me for sending that email. That's the only thing about the relationship that I don't like very much. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman Hi Tiffany, Did you check the DVS catalog? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: tiffany miles Hi Brandon, That's interesting! I wonder what a doctor touching somebody has to do with the patient's blindness? Well, I guess it's just one of those misconceptions about blindness that we can't even comprehend or figure out the logic for. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" --- On Tue, 9/4/12, Patricia R. Koski wrote: From: Patricia R. Koski Subject: FW: P.E.O. International Peace Scholarship for International Women Pursuing a Graduate Degree To: GRADINFO-L at LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 3:07 PM     From: Vicky Lynn Hartwell   Dear Students,   The Philanthropic Education Organization (P.E.O.) is now accepting eligibility forms for the International Peace Scholarship.  This scholarship is for women who are NOT citizens of the United States or Canada.  Some of the eligibility requirements are:   1.       Must be admitted into a graduate degree program at an accredited college or university in the United States or Canada; 2.       Must have a full year of course work remaining and be enrolled full-time and in residence during the entire award year; and 3.       Doctoral students who have completed all course work and are working on the dissertation only are not eligible as first-time applicants.   Interested graduate students may find out more about the eligibility requirements and the award, and submit the Eligibility Form at the following web site:   http://www.peointernational.org/peo-projectsphilanthropies, see International Peace Scholarship section.   Deadline for submitting the Eligibility Form is December 15.  DO NOT submit any materials to me.   Thank you.       Vicky L. Hartwell                                        UAspire. UApply. UAchieve. Director of Graduate Fellowships/                                                                     Associate Director of Graduate Recruitment   Phone:                   479-575-4327 FAX:                        479-575-5246 Toll free:                866-234-3957   346 N. Arkansas Ave., STON 50 1 University of Arkansas Fayetteville, AR 72701                                   -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4479 bytes Desc: image004.emz URL: From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 23:52:54 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 18:52:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. Just make sure the shop is of good repute. Respectfully, Jedi Sent from my iPhone On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 8 23:54:09 2012 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 18:54:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> References: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes it does... currently anyway. Sent from my iPhone On 08/09/2012, at 1:06 PM, Beth wrote: > Unfortunately for me, my privacy as an adult patient i violated on a daily bais if I'm in Florida with my parents. They want protection, protection, protection, but there' nothing wrong with telling them to go away at thi point. I am not going to tell you guy whether or not I wa exually active, but I have a quetsion. Mot of u are on Medicaid, right? I wonder if any of you can tell me whether a government ervice uch a Medicaid will cover birth control pills. I've been told to try birth control, but I already take mental health meds, o I wonder if I should put even more bad chemical in my body, and the other thing i that government insurance may not cover birth control because it' the government. I don't know because of thoe comment made by the demagogue Limbaugh (ome p0o9litical people might know whuat I"m talking about.) And if we elect the wrong peron, I might not be able to get free birth control. Thank. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 11:00:57 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 9 01:32:09 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 21:32:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good evening, You bring up some great points on a issue that many blind people face. First, the issue of trust and discussing "nature." Unfortunately doctors (although they have the medical advice) are ill-intentioned when it comes to blindness and sexual questions. Many of the privacy laws, including Hippa were not around when I was a teen. My Parrents often found out what I asked or were told to explain to me what I had asked. Furthermore, as an adult, I notice that a general assumption that sexual activity is non-existent since they will often say: "you are not allowed to be sexually active? right?" The low expectation of us once again has taken hold. Once they are awed at us for what we may tell them, it is downplayed as "childs play." So, I do not think health care practitioners are the people to turn to. I here stories about this issue constantly. I am glad that it is surfacing to make people aware. Havve a good evening Sent from my iPad On Sep 8, 2012, at 1:09 PM, "Arielle Silverman" wrote: > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 01:53:05 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 21:53:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Tiffany, > > Did you check the DVS catalog? > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tiffany miles To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] movies > > hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart > unfortunately > i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait > until > they update again > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 02:16:15 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:16:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Hi Tiffany, I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you can't find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive Video Service catalog. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tiffany miles Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Tiffany, > > Did you check the DVS catalog? > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tiffany miles To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] movies > > hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately > i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until > they update again > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 02:37:43 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:37:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi chris thanks i will try that On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Tiffany, > > I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you can't > find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive Video Service > catalog. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of tiffany miles > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies > > Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? > > On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> Did you check the DVS catalog? >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: tiffany miles > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] movies >> >> hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately >> i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until >> they update again >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 02:41:53 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:41:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi all i have a jaws question I am a jaws user i am using jaws 11 and thinking about upgrading to jaws 13. Could anyone who uses jaws 13 tell me if they have any difficulties or is it a good upgrade and if I decided to upgrade could i upgrade from 11 to 13 with my curent license or will i have to get a new one for the upgrade thanks in advance On 9/8/12, tiffany miles wrote: > hi chris thanks i will try that > > On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you can't >> find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive Video >> Service >> catalog. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of tiffany miles >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies >> >> Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? >> >> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Hi Tiffany, >>> >>> Did you check the DVS catalog? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: tiffany miles >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] movies >>> >>> hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately >>> i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until >>> they update again >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 02:46:09 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:46:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is not blindness-related -- and inappropriate for this list. David Andrews, List Owner At 08:42 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >All, >What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >Koby >Sent from my iPhone From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 02:47:23 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:47:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Please leave moderating the list to the moderators, as this creates unnecessary traffic, and isn't your place to do anyway. Dave At 08:46 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >Thanks, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > >All, >What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >Koby >Sent from my iPhone From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 02:50:16 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:50:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <43E0E5FE-9026-4A1A-B8A2-73669A4DE245@gmail.com> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <43E0E5FE-9026-4A1A-B8A2-73669A4DE245@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am the list owner and I say it is. No arguments! Dave At 09:10 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >No It Isn't. >Koby >Sent from my iPhone > >On Sep 7, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. > > Thanks, Joshua > > ________________________________________ > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > > > All, > > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > > Koby > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth wrote: From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 02:55:45 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 21:55:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. Dave At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >Hello, >Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered >in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their >health centers. >I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that >is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health >center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I >would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there >every few months... >Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is >few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them >around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex >unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to >make sure he has protection for his gender. > >Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other >things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the >internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they >are any help there... From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 02:58:31 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:58:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <775691885734862822@unknownmsgid> I think we all should keep that in mind. Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:48 PM, David Andrews wrote: > Please leave moderating the list to the moderators, as this creates unnecessary traffic, and isn't your place to do anyway. > > Dave > > At 08:46 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >> Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. >> Thanks, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating >> >> All, >> What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? >> Koby >> Sent from my iPhone > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 03:02:25 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 22:02:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think that Arielle gives good advice and frames the question well. I initially said off topic, I meant just the aspect of sex the first time -- it isn't a blindness issue, but I know there is grey areas here to--and there are blindness to the discussion. I also know that some people aren't comfortable with this discussion, but as long as it is in good taste, and on topic you will just have to delete and move on. People can conduct themselves like adults -- or young adults, and be tasteful and appropriate, and still have a meaningful discussion -- if you try. Dave At 12:00 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote: >Hi all, >I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >www.condomania.com >www.undercovercondoms.com >and >www.condomdepot.com >Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >www.amazon.com >If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >of information: >www.plannedparenthood.org >(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >www.scarleteen.com >This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >these online forums will talk about. >I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >Best, >Arielle From dsykora29 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 03:09:47 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:09:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students was RE:Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <504bc8ad.53a13a0a.3c39.479f@mx.google.com> References: <504bc8ad.53a13a0a.3c39.479f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, That is very well said. As another high school, student I completely agree with your statements. Danielle On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Desiree, > > That's very kind! Thank you!! > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Desiree Oudinot To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 23:54:03 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] adult discussions and high school students > was RE:Long-Distance Dating > > Hi Chris, > Very well said! I'm really glad you have such a healthy attitude > about > this. You certainly seem mature for your age and I applaud you > for > eloquently saying what I don't think I could have nearly as well. > > On 9/7/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Joshua, > > Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain > discussion > can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to > comment on > Koby's original question because of my age and lack of > experience on this > topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is > on-topic for > this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. > If a > discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate > for a high > school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools > we go to > offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we > are not > mature > enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual > implication, > why > is time set aside during the school year to have class > discussions about > the > truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even > learn the > first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are > our parents > encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody > else who > knows anything about the education of children to teach their > children > about > sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are > encouraged > (and > often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is > a part of > the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young > people as young > as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do > something that > has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important > that we > learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly > of it. > Then > we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we > will do in > regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you > suggest, and don't > learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not > be > properly > prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is > important that > parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally > important that > they be honest with their children about what is really out > there in the > real world and the consequences of getting involved in things > like sex at > an > early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list > free of > inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high > school students > from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the > extreme, > borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this > list as well > as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the > real world > which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had > the option > not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable > with > reading, > and that there were many people on this list and others who are > much older > than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been > exposed to as > much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect > everybody's > right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a > high school > student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my > opinion) > does > not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this > list to > discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on > topic for > this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness > and/or being > a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is > off-topic, he is > the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. > But just > don't use my age as support for your claim that something is > inappropriate > for this list. > > Chris Nusbaum > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high > schoolers on here. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > behalf of > Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > All, > What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? > Koby > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth > wrote: > > Hi, Arielle and all, > Jason is the love I thought I'd never have. YEs, we get on > each > other's nerves. YEs, he argues with me sometimes, but people > call him no > good, bad, really stupid, whuatever you say they say it about > him. I think > Jason has a sweet side to him. I love Jason so much and we met > in June. > His mom was able to pay for the flight, but I'm afraid she won't > this > December or so. I'm trying to make it easy for her to pay for > it again so > I > can be down there with him. I want Jason to know that just > because he's > blind, heart issues and all that, that doesn't mean that his > life is over. > HE can marry, he can have a relationship, he can have kids if he > so > desires, > and he may engage in sex if that's whuat he wants. Some men are > nervous > about sex and relationships, even Jason. But with the help of > my coaxing > and calm manner, he was able to enjoy himself with me. At least > he doesn't > engage in the trade of child porn and other inappropriate things > that > sighted men would engage in. He has a good sense of right and > wrong. He > loves chocolate for breakfast. (hee hee), though I prefer eggs > myself. If > I > look back and turn the clock back, I see that I have not made a > bad choice > as some are led to believe. Honestly, I have insecurity issues, > and I see > myself at fault for a stupid email I sent to his mother because > I was truly > upset at sommething he did that was really inappropriate and I > don't want > to > share with this list. I love Jason no matter what he does to me > or whuaft > I > do to him. All I can do is say that it's emotionally trying not > having > Jason near me, but this relationship is good when the winds of > good fortune > blow in our direction. Arielle, Im glad at least you have a > good > boyfriend. > Btw, for all of us, how can I make up with Jason's family > without sending > an > email? I really want to see him again, and supposedly his mom > resents me > for sending that email. That's the only thing about the > relationship that > I > don't like very much. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating > > Hi all, > Cindy, I generally agree with you about keeping this list to > blindness-related discussions. However, I do think > long-distance > dating issues like the one Koby brought up are perhaps more > relevant > to us blind students than they are for sighted students, > especially > those of us who are involved in the NFB. This is because, for > many > reasons, some of us want to date other blind/NFB people and > because > our community is so spread out, we may often end up in similar > situations where we have to decide if we want to enter a > long-distance > relationship with someone we know from this community. So I'd > like to > offer a brief response on-list and hope that others in similar > situations might find it helpful. > During college I was in a long-distance relationship with > someone I > met through NFB for about a year. In hindsight I do not regret > that > decision at all. I had fun, learned a lot and he and I are > still > friends. I will also say that parts of it were emotionally very > hard > to deal with--in my particular case an airplane ticket between > my > location and his cost nearly $500 and we did not see each other > for > five months, which was emotionally trying at times. I do not > think I > would do another long-distance relationship and my current > boyfriend > and I will be making an effort to ensure we will not have to be > living > in separate places for any length of time. However, again, I > enjoyed > the one experience I had overall and learned a lot from it. I > think if > you and this girl really like each other and you can find a way > to see > each other on a somewhat regular basis, there's no harm in > trying and > you can always decide later on to just be friends. However, it > is > something to give a little serious thought to before you make > that > kind of commitment. You also want to talk with her and make > sure that > the two of you have similar expectations for how serious of a > relationship this will be and how often you will be able to see > each > other. It will be hard if one of you is much more enthused > about the > relationship than the other. But if the two of you are > generally on > the same page and are really committed to it, it can be fun. > Hope this helps, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma > il.co > m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 > 0pccuaedu.o > nmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 03:13:10 2012 From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug oliver) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 22:13:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] movies References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com><000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: do you know if your software maintenance agreement prohibits you to upgrade? If not, and you have further questions write me off list and I'll direct you on how to check to see if you have a software maintenance update available. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiffany miles" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies > hi all i have a jaws question I am a jaws user i am using jaws 11 and > thinking about upgrading to jaws 13. Could anyone who uses jaws 13 > tell me if they have any difficulties or is it a good upgrade and if I > decided to upgrade could i upgrade from 11 to 13 with my curent > license or will i have to get a new one for the upgrade thanks in > advance > > On 9/8/12, tiffany miles wrote: >> hi chris thanks i will try that >> >> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Hi Tiffany, >>> >>> I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you >>> can't >>> find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive Video >>> Service >>> catalog. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of tiffany miles >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies >>> >>> Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? >>> >>> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Hi Tiffany, >>>> >>>> Did you check the DVS catalog? >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: tiffany miles >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] movies >>>> >>>> hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately >>>> i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until >>>> they update again >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. >>>> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 03:18:12 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:18:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] movies In-Reply-To: References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: send me an email i am not sure On 9/8/12, Doug oliver wrote: > do you know if your software maintenance agreement prohibits you to upgrade? > > If not, and you have further questions write me off list and I'll direct > you on how to check to see if you have a software maintenance update > available. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tiffany miles" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies > > >> hi all i have a jaws question I am a jaws user i am using jaws 11 and >> thinking about upgrading to jaws 13. Could anyone who uses jaws 13 >> tell me if they have any difficulties or is it a good upgrade and if I >> decided to upgrade could i upgrade from 11 to 13 with my curent >> license or will i have to get a new one for the upgrade thanks in >> advance >> >> On 9/8/12, tiffany miles wrote: >>> hi chris thanks i will try that >>> >>> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> Hi Tiffany, >>>> >>>> I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you >>>> can't >>>> find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive Video >>>> Service >>>> catalog. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of tiffany miles >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies >>>> >>>> Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? >>>> >>>> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>> Hi Tiffany, >>>>> >>>>> Did you check the DVS catalog? >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: tiffany miles >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] movies >>>>> >>>>> hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart unfortunately >>>>> i could not find any movies i was looking for i will just wait until >>>>> they update again >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. >>>>> com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From brlsurfer at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 03:49:53 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:49:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video Message-ID: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> Hi, Today I was trying to play some videos on Kahn Academy (which many of you probably have heard of, it helps people with schoolwork and also has informative videos.) Anyway, when I clicked on the video, a pop-up thing opened, and wouldn't allow the video to play. I had to have my dad help me play it by closing the pop-up with his mouse. How do you get around these? Vejas From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Sep 9 03:52:14 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 03:52:14 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video In-Reply-To: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> References: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Have you tried Alt F4? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of vejas [brlsurfer at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:49 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video Hi, Today I was trying to play some videos on Kahn Academy (which many of you probably have heard of, it helps people with schoolwork and also has informative videos.) Anyway, when I clicked on the video, a pop-up thing opened, and wouldn't allow the video to play. I had to have my dad help me play it by closing the pop-up with his mouse. How do you get around these? Vejas _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 04:00:17 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:00:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video In-Reply-To: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> References: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Most, if not all browser scan be set to prevent pop-ups. Dave At 10:49 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote: >Hi, >Today I was trying to play some videos on Kahn Academy (which many >of you probably have heard of, it helps people with schoolwork and >also has informative videos.) Anyway, when I clicked on the video, a >pop-up thing opened, and wouldn't allow the video to play. I had to >have my dad help me play it by closing the pop-up with his >mouse. How do you get around these? >Vejas From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 9 04:01:25 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:01:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video In-Reply-To: References: <504c11e1.67ddb60a.7b82.3954@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Depending on how the popup is done, that might close the whole session. Control-F4 would be a better choice -- if you were in the popup itself. Dave At 10:52 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote: >Have you tried Alt F4? >Thanks, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of vejas [brlsurfer at gmail.com] >Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:49 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video > >Hi, >Today I was trying to play some videos on Kahn Academy (which >many of you probably have heard of, it helps people with >schoolwork and also has informative videos.) Anyway, when I >clicked on the video, a pop-up thing opened, and wouldn't allow >the video to play. I had to have my dad help me play it by >closing the pop-up with his mouse. How do you get around these? >Vejas From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 15:44:33 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:44:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem Message-ID: Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how to stop jaws from freezing From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 15:52:29 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 09:52:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem Message-ID: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> ARe you using a crack or a license? Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: tiffany miles References: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> Message-ID: hi Beth I am using a license On 9/9/12, Beth wrote: > ARe you using a crack or a license? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tiffany miles To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:44:33 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > > Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone > know how to > stop jaws from freezing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Sun Sep 9 16:04:47 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 10:04:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> References: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <504CBE1F.1020908@tysdomain.com> Does this really matter? As to the origenal question, I think it's probably due to what's running in the background, more than jaws itself. If you're running on a low end system that you bought, it's likely there's a ton of stuff running. Either you, if you have the knowledge to remove the stuff or someone else can remove a lot of your startup items. On 9/9/2012 9:52 AM, Beth wrote: > ARe you using a crack or a license? > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tiffany miles To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:44:33 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > > Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know > how to > stop jaws from freezing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 16:08:45 2012 From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug oliver) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:08:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem References: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> <504CBE1F.1020908@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <745DA7ECA8F4406EAA08C29D9746A30B@computer> honestly that doesn't matter, I agree with Tyler. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > Does this really matter? As to the origenal question, I think it's > probably due to what's running in the background, more than jaws itself. > If you're running on a low end system that you bought, it's likely there's > a ton of stuff running. Either you, if you have the knowledge to remove > the stuff or someone else can remove a lot of your startup items. > On 9/9/2012 9:52 AM, Beth wrote: >> ARe you using a crack or a license? >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: tiffany miles > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:44:33 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem >> >> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how >> to >> stop jaws from freezing >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 16:33:44 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 12:33:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: <745DA7ECA8F4406EAA08C29D9746A30B@computer> References: <504cbb76.a82a320a.29d3.5925@mx.google.com> <504CBE1F.1020908@tysdomain.com> <745DA7ECA8F4406EAA08C29D9746A30B@computer> Message-ID: i am using windows 7 On 9/9/12, Doug oliver wrote: > honestly that doesn't matter, I agree with Tyler. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Littlefield, Tyler" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > > >> Does this really matter? As to the origenal question, I think it's >> probably due to what's running in the background, more than jaws itself. >> If you're running on a low end system that you bought, it's likely there's >> >> a ton of stuff running. Either you, if you have the knowledge to remove >> the stuff or someone else can remove a lot of your startup items. >> On 9/9/2012 9:52 AM, Beth wrote: >>> ARe you using a crack or a license? >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: tiffany miles >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:44:33 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem >>> >>> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how >>> >>> to >>> stop jaws from freezing >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 9 16:54:54 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 12:54:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What OS do you have? I know that my versions regardless of the addition froze when i used Windows Vista. However, this problem did not happen with Windows 7. Hope this helps. Have a good day. Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2012, at 11:46 AM, "tiffany miles" wrote: > Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how to > stop jaws from freezing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 9 16:58:46 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 12:58:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Now that I see you are using windows 7, you should see what is runnning in the background. Then, you can disable items as needed. Can you come out of the problem without restarting the machine? Does disabling JFW with INS F4 and enter work? Are you then able to restart JFW with a CTRL+ALT+J? Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2012, at 12:56 PM, "wmodnl wmodnl" wrote: > What OS do you have? I know that my versions regardless of the addition froze when i used Windows Vista. However, this problem did not happen with Windows 7. Hope this helps. Have a good day. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 9, 2012, at 11:46 AM, "tiffany miles" wrote: > >> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how to >> stop jaws from freezing >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sun Sep 9 17:03:11 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:03:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing these topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a search area for people to locate educational material, and local centers in there area. Finally, if I remember, there are confidential hotlines that individuals can call through local hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you think about the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for it, and a demand for correct information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: > I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. > > Dave > > At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >> Hello, >> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their health centers. >> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... >> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he has protection for his gender. >> >> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help there... > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Sun Sep 9 17:19:27 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 11:19:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <504CCF9F.1040008@tysdomain.com> I'm sure asking for a tour of the condums would look a lot weirder after they see you stuffing a couple month's supply in your pocket and you're somehow more eager to get a flue shot. I recommend ordering online (just punch it into google, I'm sure amazon would have them), or go to the drug store and ask for help or take someone with you. If you make it weird, it's going to be weird. On 9/9/2012 11:03 AM, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing these topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a search area for people to locate educational material, and local centers in there area. Finally, if I remember, there are confidential hotlines that individuals can call through local hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you think about the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for it, and a demand for correct information. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: > >> I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. >> >> Dave >> >> At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their health centers. >>> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >>> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... >>> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >>> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >>> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >>> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he has protection for his gender. >>> >>> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help there... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 17:25:48 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:25:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you able to install the updates to Jaws 11? sometimes installing the updates will get the bugs out. The latest version of jaws 11 is 11.0.1476. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:44 AM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how > to > stop jaws from freezing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 17:31:55 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:31:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: no i have not installed the jaws 11 update i will give it a try to see if that helps thanks On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > Are you able to install the updates to Jaws 11? sometimes installing the > updates will get the bugs out. > The latest version of jaws 11 is 11.0.1476. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tiffany miles" > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:44 AM > To: > Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > >> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how >> to >> stop jaws from freezing >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 17:31:54 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:31:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Do you need help obtaining the update? if so, write me off list and I'll give you the steps. Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 1:31 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > no i have not installed the jaws 11 update i will give it a try to see > if that helps thanks > > On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >> Are you able to install the updates to Jaws 11? sometimes installing the >> updates will get the bugs out. >> The latest version of jaws 11 is 11.0.1476. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "tiffany miles" >> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:44 AM >> To: >> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem >> >>> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how >>> to >>> stop jaws from freezing >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:19:04 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:19:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi everyone i have updated jaws 11 and thanks for the help i have one more question When i am on a webpage i sometimes have to hold down the controol key and down arrow to get it to read what is on the page. do you know how to make that go away and just use thee arrows to navigate the page thanks again in advance On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tiffany miles" Do you need help obtaining the update? if so, write me > > off list and I'll give you the steps. > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 1:31 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > >> no i have not installed the jaws 11 update i will give it a try to see >> if that helps thanks >> >> On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >>> Are you able to install the updates to Jaws 11? sometimes installing the >>> updates will get the bugs out. >>> The latest version of jaws 11 is 11.0.1476. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "tiffany miles" >>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:44 AM >>> To: >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem >>> >>>> Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know >>>> how >>>> to >>>> stop jaws from freezing >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:21:15 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:21:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What exactly happens when you use the arrow keys? From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:27:20 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:27:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: with out using the controol key and i just use the arrow keys it woun't read what is on the webpage but if I hold down the controol key and arrow it reads can you tell me how to fix this On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > > What exactly happens when you use the arrow keys? > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:29:49 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:29:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC> I've never seen Jaws do something like that before. Go into configuration manager under the utilities menu then check under user options under set options menu and check to see if highlighted text is set and if it isn't set it and tab to ok and press enter. then press control s to save. then press alt f4 to close out configuration manager. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:27 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > with out using the controol key and i just use the arrow keys it > woun't read what is on the webpage but if I hold down the controol key > and arrow it reads can you tell me how to fix this > > On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >> >> What exactly happens when you use the arrow keys? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From codyjbair at yahoo.com Sun Sep 9 18:36:49 2012 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] research resources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1347215809.47166.YahooMailClassic@web110711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ashley, Although learning ally charges a fee. There is a fee waver form that you can find on their website and fill out. I would reccomend doing this in order to get access to the wealth of books that learning ally offers. Thanks, Cody --- On Sat, 9/8/12, Ashley Bradner wrote: > From: Ashley Bradner > Subject: [nabs-l] research resources > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Saturday, September 8, 2012, 12:38 PM > Hello all, > I am fairly new to the list, so I apologize if this topic > has already been discussed. I am finishing up my English > minor and my courses are getting much more research > intensive. I have no problems finding articles that I can > use for research, but am not as successful at finding > accessible books. The research I will mostly be doing > revolves around culture and literary criticism. In the past, > I have utilized bookshare, amazon, ibooks, and NLS. > Sometimes I find what I'm looking for, but not always. I am > aware of Learning Ally, but can't afford the membership fee > at this time. I would love to hear your feedback and what > sources you use for obtaining braille, audio, and electronic > books. Thank you for your help. > Sincerely, > Ashley Bradner > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:42:40 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:42:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC> References: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC> Message-ID: I checked and highlighted text is checked On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > I've never seen Jaws do something like that before. > > Go into configuration manager under the utilities menu then check under user > > options under set options menu and check to see if highlighted text is set > and if it isn't set it and tab to ok and press enter. > then press control s to save. > then press alt f4 to close out configuration manager. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "tiffany miles" > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:27 PM > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > >> with out using the controol key and i just use the arrow keys it >> woun't read what is on the webpage but if I hold down the controol key >> and arrow it reads can you tell me how to fix this >> >> On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >>> >>> What exactly happens when you use the arrow keys? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:44:22 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:44:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC> Message-ID: <6746F8DA39304F4DB393035592E5DC69@RaymondPC> Do you know how to do a repair on jaws? Go into the jaws 11.0 submenu, and find tools submenu then find installation maintenance and then tell it repair. Write me off list if you get stuck. From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:50:36 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:50:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: <6746F8DA39304F4DB393035592E5DC69@RaymondPC> References: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC> <6746F8DA39304F4DB393035592E5DC69@RaymondPC> Message-ID: ok raymond thanks On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: > Do you know how to do a repair on jaws? > Go into the jaws 11.0 submenu, and find tools submenu then find installation > > maintenance and then tell it repair. > Write me off list if you get stuck. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From ray214 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 18:53:36 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:53:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: <0F82F1771DD046FD9070F0EC400D1686@RaymondPC><6746F8DA39304F4DB393035592E5DC69@RaymondPC> Message-ID: <51CB9BD80D0D4480AC1BD24CD73F6FD2@RaymondPC> If you get stuck, write me. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:50 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > ok raymond thanks > > On 9/9/12, raymond lombardi wrote: >> Do you know how to do a repair on jaws? >> Go into the jaws 11.0 submenu, and find tools submenu then find >> installation >> >> maintenance and then tell it repair. >> Write me off list if you get stuck. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:16:42 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:16:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401cd8ebf$a6b3a060$f41ae120$@gmail.com> Hi Lavonya, Hmmm... interesting. I wonder how VoiceOver deals with the app. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues I have seen blind people play angry birds weather they can c it or not. They tell me that the sounds are cool. Sent from my iPad On Sep 3, 2012, at 19:07, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Lavonya, > > I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot > of visual elements to it. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues > > Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not > played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They > just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote >> HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend me > to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not > sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry > Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do > any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't > working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs are welcome here. >> Thanks in advance, >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.co > m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 19:34:39 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:34:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EFE3B5162C3403F8A6FCC6089FB47EA@OwnerPC> Arielle, Thanks. I think discussing access to information on sexual health is fine as long as its not too graphic. You definitely also tied it to blindness too! As with many things, people learn via observation where as we depend on someone else for such info. We cannot just go in and browse a store for such private stuff and as you said we often depend on a parent or someone else for transportation. I know I do because where I live there is no sidewalk to walk to a bus, or I can get paratransit. I was also going to suggest buying condoms online or with a trusted friend. Thanks also for the websites on preventing pregnancy and STDS as this is something I wanted to research. Also, regarding medical appointments, I struggled there too. I was driven there and had a parent assist me in filling out forms there. I am still fine with that. Oh on another note, with touch screens now, its nearly impossible to walk into a clinic alone. In my area, the walk in clinics at the pharmacy have you sign in via a touch screen with personal information. I want a trusted person such as a family member taking me there because there is no way I'd want to reveal such private info such as date of birth or social security number or the name of my insurance provider to a stranger! I also had a parent take me into the doctors for a long time. Finally I insisted as you did that they wait for me. I felt as you do that I have a right to medical privacy and that there was no need for them to discuss such info with them. Besides I am pretty healthy and only take one med and over the counter stuff on occasion, so there really isn't much for them to know about. Good to know. I'm not the only one that had to assert some independence. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Hi all, I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. There are a few places to buy condoms online, including www.condomania.com www.undercovercondoms.com and www.condomdepot.com Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at www.amazon.com If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind of information: www.plannedparenthood.org (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or www.scarleteen.com This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which these online forums will talk about. I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. Best, Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:40:50 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:40:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB In-Reply-To: References: <003a01cd89f3$a08c9b40$e1a5d1c0$@gmail.com> <005b01cd8a28$723233b0$56969b10$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003801cd8ec3$05717160$10545420$@gmail.com> Hi Deb, No problem! I'm glad you were able to contact the people in charge! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 9:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AZ NFB HI Chris, Unfortunately, we are mere Human Beings who make mistakes including not uploading stuff to the website on time. With the information you sent, I was able to contact Bob Kresmer and Kristen Johnson to obtain the agenda. Thank you so much! Deb On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Deb, > > It seems to me they should have posted it by now, if the convention is > September 7-9. But maybe they're like Maryland can be at times, in > that they, like us, take a long time to update their Web site. Since > you are getting close to your convention, it may be a good idea to > call your affiliate's President or contact him through the Arizona > affiliate's Web site. Here is the contact information for Arizona, > copied from the NFB national Web site: > > NFB of Arizona > > Bob Kresmer, President > 9014 East Bellevue Street > Tucson, Arizona 85715-5652 > Home: 520-733-5894 > Send message: http://www.az.nfb.org/contact Web site: > http://www.az.nfb.org > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > Not there > > Deb Cell (520) 225-8244 > On Sep 3, 2012 9:46 AM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > > > Hi Deb, > > > > You might want to check the Arizona affiliate's Web site for the agenda. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > > On Behalf Of Deb Mendelsohn > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 12:00 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] AZ NFB > > > > HI ALL, > > > > ANY ONE GOING TO AZ CONVENTION? DOES ANYONE HAVE THE AGENDA FOR THE > > SEPTEMBER 7-9 CONVENTION? > > > > THANK U. > > > > DEB > > > > -- > > *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 > > 0g > > mail.c > > om > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%4 > > 0g > > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40g > mail.com > -- *Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244* _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 19:41:36 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:41:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> References: <504b896c.e45b320a.5dd6.ffff8c34@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, That is a question for your doctor or the medicaid office. Unless your parents have something legal on you as being your guardian, legally after age 18, your privacy is yours. So if they can legally violate your privacy, I assume there is something going on that lets them do this. I think waiting for sex till you have a firm commitment and are either near marriage or married is best. But if you chose to be active beforehand, I'm sure there are sources for pills other than medicaid. If you are in school, your health center may have something or go to some charity. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 2:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Unfortunately for me, my privacy as an adult patient i violated on a daily bais if I'm in Florida with my parents. They want protection, protection, protection, but there' nothing wrong with telling them to go away at thi point. I am not going to tell you guy whether or not I wa exually active, but I have a quetsion. Mot of u are on Medicaid, right? I wonder if any of you can tell me whether a government ervice uch a Medicaid will cover birth control pills. I've been told to try birth control, but I already take mental health meds, o I wonder if I should put even more bad chemical in my body, and the other thing i that government insurance may not cover birth control because it' the government. I don't know because of thoe comment made by the demagogue Limbaugh (ome p0o9litical people might know whuat I"m talking about.) And if we elect the wrong peron, I might not be able to get free birth control. Thank. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> <003401cd8ebf$a6b3a060$f41ae120$@gmail.com> Message-ID: The people that I know who do play angry birds, are using android cell phones. And they play the sounds of the game. Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2012, at 15:16, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Lavonya, > > Hmmm... interesting. I wonder how VoiceOver deals with the app. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues > > I have seen blind people play angry birds weather they can c it or not. They > tell me that the sounds are cool. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 3, 2012, at 19:07, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> Hi Lavonya, >> >> I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot >> of visual elements to it. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues >> >> Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not >> played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They >> just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote >>> HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend > me >> to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not >> sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry >> Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do >> any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't >> working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and soundoffs > are welcome here. >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.co >> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:57:04 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:57:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> <003401cd8ebf$a6b3a060$f41ae120$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004101cd8ec5$49949c30$dcbdd490$@gmail.com> Oh, OK. That would be a little different, then. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues The people that I know who do play angry birds, are using android cell phones. And they play the sounds of the game. Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2012, at 15:16, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Lavonya, > > Hmmm... interesting. I wonder how VoiceOver deals with the app. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:42 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues > > I have seen blind people play angry birds weather they can c it or > not. They tell me that the sounds are cool. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 3, 2012, at 19:07, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> Hi Lavonya, >> >> I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot >> of visual elements to it. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues >> >> Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not >> played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They >> just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote >>> HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend > me >> to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not >> sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry >> Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do >> any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't >> working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and >> soundoffs > are welcome here. >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >> m >> ail.co >> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >> m >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:58:19 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:58:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] scree readers and torrents Message-ID: Hi all i have a question I have a friend of is using jaws and is having problems using jaws on the torrents sites are any of you experiencing this issues as well if so do you have a sollution to fix it From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:58:52 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:58:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] turnitin.com In-Reply-To: <503c0446.e45b320a.2862.3127@mx.google.com> References: <503c0446.e45b320a.2862.3127@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004201cd8ec5$8a4658e0$9ed30aa0$@gmail.com> Hi Beth, Thanks for the info! I'll look at the Web site more carefully once I have the account information from my teacher. Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 7:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] turnitin.com Well, I've got some good news about that. turnitin.com is accessible with JAWS, but it's been a while since I looked at it. SafeAssign may not be accessible, but the weird thing about SafeAssign is that professors tend to embed a button for tturning something in using SafeAssign. Turnitin has a pasword you type in, whicch you should get from your teacher. Then, you have access to all the tabs and links to the assignments. Then, you browse the computer and ssee which asignment you need to turn in, and upload files that way. Usually, colleges use turnitin, but I'm not surprised high schools have started this. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Nusbaum References: <504bc8af.53a13a0a.3c39.47a0@mx.google.com> <000a01cd8e31$1843f160$48cbd420$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000801cd8ec5$93d60270$bb820750$@gmail.com> Hi Tina, My name is Becky Sabo. I had jaws 11 and I upgraded to 13 and it made a big different. If you have any questions about it you can email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tiffany miles Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies hi all i have a jaws question I am a jaws user i am using jaws 11 and thinking about upgrading to jaws 13. Could anyone who uses jaws 13 tell me if they have any difficulties or is it a good upgrade and if I decided to upgrade could i upgrade from 11 to 13 with my curent license or will i have to get a new one for the upgrade thanks in advance On 9/8/12, tiffany miles wrote: > hi chris thanks i will try that > > On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Hi Tiffany, >> >> I believe it is on www.wgbh.org, but don't quote me on this. If you >> can't find the catalog on WGBH's Web site, try Googling Descriptive >> Video Service catalog. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of tiffany miles >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:53 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] movies >> >> Hi chris no i didnkt check the dvs catalog where can I find it? >> >> On 9/8/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> Hi Tiffany, >>> >>> Did you check the DVS catalog? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: tiffany miles >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 00:40:16 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] movies >>> >>> hi all thanks to everyone who helped with blindmicemart >>> unfortunately i could not find any movies i was looking for i will >>> just wait until they update again >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail >> .com >> > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 20:00:56 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:00:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] turnitin.com In-Reply-To: References: <503bfed6.c4d5e00a.2e7b.ffffd283@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004401cd8ec5$d430c580$7c925080$@gmail.com> Hi Cindy, Thanks for the information! So is it a browse button? Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Bennett Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] turnitin.com Chris: Although I haven't used this website in a few years, I remember it being accessible. I think there is an option to either paste your paper into an edit box or to browse for it as if you were attaching a file to an email. Cindy On 8/27/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Today was our first day of classes, and my English/Freshman Seminar > teacher informed us today that she uses the Web site TurnItIn.com to > turn in certain assignments, particularly long-term projects and > essays. Has anybody on this list used this Web site to turn in work > to your teachers? If so, how accessible is it with JAWS? If it is > accessible, how do I use this site with JAWS to turn in work? By the > way, in the event that this Web site is inaccessible, I've already > talked with my teacher and she gave me permission to email projects > usually turned in on turnitin.com to her. > > Thanks in advance, > > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.co > m > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 19:59:47 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 15:59:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: On 9/9/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing these > topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a search area for > people to locate educational material, and local centers in there area. > Finally, if I remember, there are confidential hotlines that individuals can > call through local hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you > think about the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for > it, and a demand for correct information. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: > >> I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer birth >> control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go to >> drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I >> remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to >> procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie >> The Summer of '42. >> >> Dave >> >> At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in >>> High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their health >>> centers. >>> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is >>> something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >>> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? I >>> can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen as >>> the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... >>> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few >>> people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >>> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them >>> around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >>> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >>> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless he >>> has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he has >>> protection for his gender. >>> >>> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other things >>> off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet >>> really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help >>> there... >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > Hi, You're right, I think a list for these topics is definitely a good idea. There's the Blind Talk mailing list which is for general discussion, and I guess things of this nature could be brought up there, but I don't think that's the right place for it either. Here are my suggestions for the guidelines of such a list that might cater more towards young people and provide a comfortable place for these discussions: 1. Restrict the age of participants so that members must be between the ages of 13-21. Although I could see how 13 might be a bit young, so perhaps 16 is a better compromise. The reason for the age restriction is simple: young people feel more comfortable asking their questions and sharing their concerns when there are no "parental" or "authority" figures around. Of course, as an exception, the moderator of such a list could be whatever age is necessary. 2. Discussions that would be appropriate to this new list could include, but are not limited to: A. dating, sex, and sexual health, B. socializing, making friends, and dealing with awkward situations as they relate to blindness, C. questions related to taking care of oneself such as shaving, applying makeup, cutting nails, and other basics of personal care that teenagers and young people may want to know about, but have not either gone to a training center to learn, or whose parents have protected them to the point that they don't know how to do those things and are seeking independent guidance, and: D. emotional support for dealing with struggles with parents, issues of privacy with health care providers and/or family, or any other problem that may or may not be related to blindness that affects high school or college students that is not related to academic life. I see this type of forum as a support group, something like teencentral.org, which is a site where teens write in for advice on their problems, but of course is not blindness-related. There was also the former teenadviceonline.org, which was a wonderful peer-support group where teens asked their questions and other teen peer counselors responded with advice. There is a definite void that needs to be filled for an email list like this. If the NFB won't consider adding this idea to its already comprehensive catalog, I must say I'm highly considering creating the group myself. I've never moderated an email list before, though, so I'm not sure what interfaces are accessible or how to use them, like Yahoogroups or Google groups. I'm sure that if there actually is interest in this idea, though, I could certainly pick one and figure it out. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 20:01:52 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:01:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C30A0089F714CD88A9E43F65828D909@OwnerPC> since jaws 14 is coming out, I don't think she'd be able to install jaws 11 updates. -----Original Message----- From: raymond lombardi Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 1:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws problem Are you able to install the updates to Jaws 11? sometimes installing the updates will get the bugs out. The latest version of jaws 11 is 11.0.1476. -------------------------------------------------- From: "tiffany miles" Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 11:44 AM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws problem > Hi all I am using jaws 11 and sometimes it freezes? does anyone know how > to > stop jaws from freezing > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 20:04:24 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 16:04:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues In-Reply-To: <004101cd8ec5$49949c30$dcbdd490$@gmail.com> References: <504515fb.e6de320a.48ee.52e8@mx.google.com> <0E9FE9B8-66CB-4970-AD68-359BFC88CE04@gmail.com> <006101cd8a28$f05416a0$d0fc43e0$@gmail.com> <003401cd8ebf$a6b3a060$f41ae120$@gmail.com> <004101cd8ec5$49949c30$dcbdd490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have never tried it but maybe I should. Sent from my iPad On Sep 9, 2012, at 15:57, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Oh, OK. That would be a little different, then. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 3:53 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues > > The people that I know who do play angry birds, are using android cell > phones. And they play the sounds of the game. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 9, 2012, at 15:16, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> Hi Lavonya, >> >> Hmmm... interesting. I wonder how VoiceOver deals with the app. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 1:42 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues >> >> I have seen blind people play angry birds weather they can c it or >> not. They tell me that the sounds are cool. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 3, 2012, at 19:07, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: >> >>> Hi Lavonya, >>> >>> I don't think Angry Birds is accessible. I do know that it has a lot >>> of visual elements to it. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:59 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone and ipod games issues >>> >>> Do u have an iPad, iPod, and or iPhone? I have an iPad. I have not >>> played angry birds. Mu sister does, and a friend of mind does. They >>> just do not care that they cannot see it. They just have fun playing. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 3, 2012, at 16:40, Beth wrote >>>> HEy, guys. I was wondering what gamesfor and iphone you'd recommend >> me >>> to play. I would have loved to play Jeopardy platinum, but I'm not >>> sure it's accessible with Voiceover. Not that I want to play Angry >>> Birds, but I don't think any of us have played that game before. Do >>> any of you guys know why for instance Slotomania and Songpop aren't >>> working? I know someone who's playing Bingo Bash. Thoughts and >>> soundoffs >> are welcome here. >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>> m >>> ail.co >>> m >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >>> g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>> m >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 20:32:32 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:32:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Desiree, I have created a list on GoogleGroups before and it was very accessible. A GoogleGroup administrator can also control who can join the list, if we are concerned about age restrictions or at least not letting in those who don't have an established link to the blindness community. The moderator should also have the power to kick someone off the list if they are using it for inappropriate purposes, particularly if they are communicating in inappropriate ways with teens. If you want to set such a list up on GoogleGroups, I would be willing to help moderate. I would probably want to expand the upper age limit a bit beyond 21, so that older blind folks who have more experience and perspective with these issues can provide advice to younger ones. Arielle On 9/9/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > On 9/9/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing >> these >> topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a search area >> for >> people to locate educational material, and local centers in there area. >> Finally, if I remember, there are confidential hotlines that individuals >> can >> call through local hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you >> think about the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for >> it, and a demand for correct information. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: >> >>> I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer >>> birth >>> control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go to >>> drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I >>> remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to >>> procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie >>> The Summer of '42. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in >>>> High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their >>>> health >>>> centers. >>>> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is >>>> something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >>>> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? >>>> I >>>> can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen >>>> as >>>> the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... >>>> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few >>>> people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >>>> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them >>>> around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >>>> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >>>> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless >>>> he >>>> has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he >>>> has >>>> protection for his gender. >>>> >>>> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other things >>>> off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet >>>> really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help >>>> there... >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > Hi, > You're right, I think a list for these topics is definitely a good > idea. There's the Blind Talk mailing list which is for general > discussion, and I guess things of this nature could be brought up > there, but I don't think that's the right place for it either. Here > are my suggestions for the guidelines of such a list that might cater > more towards young people and provide a comfortable place for these > discussions: > 1. Restrict the age of participants so that members must be between > the ages of 13-21. Although I could see how 13 might be a bit young, > so perhaps 16 is a better compromise. The reason for the age > restriction is simple: young people feel more comfortable asking their > questions and sharing their concerns when there are no "parental" or > "authority" figures around. Of course, as an exception, the moderator > of such a list could be whatever age is necessary. > 2. Discussions that would be appropriate to this new list could > include, but are not limited to: > A. dating, sex, and sexual health, > B. socializing, making friends, and dealing with awkward situations as > they relate to blindness, > C. questions related to taking care of oneself such as shaving, > applying makeup, cutting nails, and other basics of personal care that > teenagers and young people may want to know about, but have not either > gone to a training center to learn, or whose parents have protected > them to the point that they don't know how to do those things and are > seeking independent guidance, and: > D. emotional support for dealing with struggles with parents, issues > of privacy with health care providers and/or family, or any other > problem that may or may not be related to blindness that affects high > school or college students that is not related to academic life. > I see this type of forum as a support group, something like > teencentral.org, which is a site where teens write in for advice on > their problems, but of course is not blindness-related. There was also > the former teenadviceonline.org, which was a wonderful peer-support > group where teens asked their questions and other teen peer counselors > responded with advice. There is a definite void that needs to be > filled for an email list like this. If the NFB won't consider adding > this idea to its already comprehensive catalog, I must say I'm highly > considering creating the group myself. I've never moderated an email > list before, though, so I'm not sure what interfaces are accessible or > how to use them, like Yahoogroups or Google groups. I'm sure that if > there actually is interest in this idea, though, I could certainly > pick one and figure it out. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 20:49:18 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 14:49:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, It is very sad that some medical professionals still don't understand the capacities of blind people. I have been fortunate not to have had doctors who thought I couldn't be sexually active. But I'd be curious to know if others have had experiences with medical providers where they felt discriminated against or where important information was withheld. If you have experienced something like this, how have you handled it and did you feel you had any recourse to complain? I also wonder how common those self-checkin kiosks are in medical offices. They have them at my campus health center and I always just have the receptionist check me in. They don't need my birthdate or SSN to check me in but I have had to fill out forms with staff at the health center that contained personal information. I have discussed this with the disability office at my university and they are working on making the forms available online so students can fill them out at home before coming in, but I'm sure many private medical practices don't have accessible forms yet. Arielle On 9/8/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good evening, > You bring up some great points on a issue that many blind people face. > First, the issue of trust and discussing "nature." Unfortunately doctors > (although they have the medical advice) are ill-intentioned when it comes to > blindness and sexual questions. Many of the privacy laws, including Hippa > were not around when I was a teen. My Parrents often found out what I asked > or were told to explain to me what I had asked. Furthermore, as an adult, I > notice that a general assumption that sexual activity is non-existent since > they will often say: > "you are not allowed to be sexually active? right?" The low expectation of > us once again has taken hold. Once they are awed at us for what we may tell > them, it is downplayed as "childs play." So, I do not think health care > practitioners are the people to turn to. I here stories about this issue > constantly. I am glad that it is surfacing to make people aware. > Havve a good evening > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 1:09 PM, "Arielle Silverman" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 9 21:31:42 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 17:31:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle, I think touch screen for self checkin are more common; it’s a trend so people don't have to wait in line and I suppose its faster for many people. Fortunately, at my doctor's office, they do have both a self check in and a traditional receptionist to check in with. Even though I'm with someone, I opt for the receptionist way as I feel more comfortable handing my money for a co-pay to them and want to talk to a live person. But at some clinics around here called Minute clinics at the pharmacy, they have only self checkin kiosks and its here where you would need some sighted help. Then even when you see a person for check in, you usually have forms. I suppose I could ask an office staff person to help me, but it seems more comfortable and confidential to have someone I'm with assist me. I think as kiosks come more common, NFB should advocate for their accessibility. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Hello, It is very sad that some medical professionals still don't understand the capacities of blind people. I have been fortunate not to have had doctors who thought I couldn't be sexually active. But I'd be curious to know if others have had experiences with medical providers where they felt discriminated against or where important information was withheld. If you have experienced something like this, how have you handled it and did you feel you had any recourse to complain? I also wonder how common those self-checkin kiosks are in medical offices. They have them at my campus health center and I always just have the receptionist check me in. They don't need my birthdate or SSN to check me in but I have had to fill out forms with staff at the health center that contained personal information. I have discussed this with the disability office at my university and they are working on making the forms available online so students can fill them out at home before coming in, but I'm sure many private medical practices don't have accessible forms yet. Arielle On 9/8/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good evening, > You bring up some great points on a issue that many blind people face. > First, the issue of trust and discussing "nature." Unfortunately doctors > (although they have the medical advice) are ill-intentioned when it comes > to > blindness and sexual questions. Many of the privacy laws, including > Hippa > were not around when I was a teen. My Parrents often found out what I > asked > or were told to explain to me what I had asked. Furthermore, as an adult, > I > notice that a general assumption that sexual activity is non-existent > since > they will often say: > "you are not allowed to be sexually active? right?" The low expectation > of > us once again has taken hold. Once they are awed at us for what we may > tell > them, it is downplayed as "childs play." So, I do not think health care > practitioners are the people to turn to. I here stories about this issue > constantly. I am glad that it is surfacing to make people aware. > Havve a good evening > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 1:09 PM, "Arielle Silverman" > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From lindsay3.14 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 22:46:46 2012 From: lindsay3.14 at gmail.com (Lindsay Yazzolino) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 18:46:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Introductory statistics textbook to donate Message-ID: <92A5E0F0-0C67-4B7F-AA66-824F98114E51@gmail.com> Hi ALl, I have an incomplete set of Braille introductory college statistics textbooks that I am hoping to donate. Unfortunately, there are a number of volumes missing, but since it was Brailled within the past three years I'm guessing that it may be possible to reorder the missing volumes from the transcribing agency, though if so I'm not certain of how much this would cost. The book comes with a probability review supplement and I'd be happy to include some additional lecture material from my professor if interested. Please feel free to contact me offlist. Thanks. Best, Lindsay Lindsay Yazzolino Program Coordinator, Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary Research Assistant, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Phone: (425) 417-9239 Lindsay3.14 at gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 22:57:32 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 18:57:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] list idea was Re: Long-Distance Dating Message-ID: On 9/9/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Desiree, > I have created a list on GoogleGroups before and it was very > accessible. A GoogleGroup administrator can also control who can join > the list, if we are concerned about age restrictions or at least not > letting in those who don't have an established link to the blindness > community. The moderator should also have the power to kick someone > off the list if they are using it for inappropriate purposes, > particularly if they are communicating in inappropriate ways with > teens. > If you want to set such a list up on GoogleGroups, I would be willing > to help moderate. I would probably want to expand the upper age limit > a bit beyond 21, so that older blind folks who have more experience > and perspective with these issues can provide advice to younger ones. > Arielle > > On 9/9/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> On 9/9/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >>> I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing >>> these >>> topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a search area >>> for >>> people to locate educational material, and local centers in there area. >>> Finally, if I remember, there are confidential hotlines that individuals >>> can >>> call through local hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you >>> think about the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need >>> for >>> it, and a demand for correct information. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't offer >>>> birth >>>> control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. You could go >>>> to >>>> drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for what it's worth, I >>>> remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers agonizing over how to >>>> procure condoms. And ... then there was the famous scene in the movie >>>> The Summer of '42. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being offered in >>>>> High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube in their >>>>> health >>>>> centers. >>>>> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, that is >>>>> something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >>>>> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health center? >>>>> I >>>>> can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I would be seen >>>>> as >>>>> the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there every few months... >>>>> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is few >>>>> people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >>>>> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show them >>>>> around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >>>>> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >>>>> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex unless >>>>> he >>>>> has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to make sure he >>>>> has >>>>> protection for his gender. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other >>>>> things >>>>> off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the internet >>>>> really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are any help >>>>> there... >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> Hi, >> You're right, I think a list for these topics is definitely a good >> idea. There's the Blind Talk mailing list which is for general >> discussion, and I guess things of this nature could be brought up >> there, but I don't think that's the right place for it either. Here >> are my suggestions for the guidelines of such a list that might cater >> more towards young people and provide a comfortable place for these >> discussions: >> 1. Restrict the age of participants so that members must be between >> the ages of 13-21. Although I could see how 13 might be a bit young, >> so perhaps 16 is a better compromise. The reason for the age >> restriction is simple: young people feel more comfortable asking their >> questions and sharing their concerns when there are no "parental" or >> "authority" figures around. Of course, as an exception, the moderator >> of such a list could be whatever age is necessary. >> 2. Discussions that would be appropriate to this new list could >> include, but are not limited to: >> A. dating, sex, and sexual health, >> B. socializing, making friends, and dealing with awkward situations as >> they relate to blindness, >> C. questions related to taking care of oneself such as shaving, >> applying makeup, cutting nails, and other basics of personal care that >> teenagers and young people may want to know about, but have not either >> gone to a training center to learn, or whose parents have protected >> them to the point that they don't know how to do those things and are >> seeking independent guidance, and: >> D. emotional support for dealing with struggles with parents, issues >> of privacy with health care providers and/or family, or any other >> problem that may or may not be related to blindness that affects high >> school or college students that is not related to academic life. >> I see this type of forum as a support group, something like >> teencentral.org, which is a site where teens write in for advice on >> their problems, but of course is not blindness-related. There was also >> the former teenadviceonline.org, which was a wonderful peer-support >> group where teens asked their questions and other teen peer counselors >> responded with advice. There is a definite void that needs to be >> filled for an email list like this. If the NFB won't consider adding >> this idea to its already comprehensive catalog, I must say I'm highly >> considering creating the group myself. I've never moderated an email >> list before, though, so I'm not sure what interfaces are accessible or >> how to use them, like Yahoogroups or Google groups. I'm sure that if >> there actually is interest in this idea, though, I could certainly >> pick one and figure it out. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > Hi Arielle, Fair enough. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it won't be as concrete as keeping everyone above a certain age out. For one thing, it would be helpful to have people who have experience with counseling on this list, if it goes the way I'm hoping it will. I'm thinking it will be a support group of sorts. However, as I said, I do not want it to become an authoritarian place with too many restrictions. As we all know, the last thing teens want to deal with is more authority! Lol. I also realize that in practice, restricting people by age just isn't realistically going to happen. People can lie about their age easily. I'm not saying I expect people to do that, but I definitely want to have some security measures in place to prevent that sort of thing from happening too often. As for the Googlegroups interface, I've heard that it's changing rapidly and may not be as accessible as it once was. Maybe that's not so, but I remember when I joined a Google group recently, the page said something about the classic interface would be going away soon. It's entirely possible that it will be more accessible with Jaws 14 when it comes out, or with NVDA, but if you would like, feel free to write me off list to discuss how we can set up this list. Now, to everyone else, would this be of interest? Would you all benefit from a relaxed environment where you can discuss your more non-student related problems? Do you have any suggestions for me about setting it up, or what you would like to see it consist of? From mistydbradley at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 00:41:52 2012 From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:41:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? Message-ID: Hi, I am doing an assignment for my Intro to Computers course as one of my basic general education requirements in college, and I am being asked to take a picture that I have inserted in a Word 2010 document and align it with the horizontal and vertical rulers on the side of the page. Is there any way to do this with Jaws without being able to see it? I have Windows 7, Jaws 12, and Microsoft Office 2010. Thanks, Misty From ambradner at yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 01:35:46 2012 From: ambradner at yahoo.com (Ashley Bradner) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 21:35:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research resources In-Reply-To: <1347215809.47166.YahooMailClassic@web110711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1347215809.47166.YahooMailClassic@web110711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cody, Thank you for letting me know. I will most certainly fill this out. I didn't think to look for such a form. I think this will help greatly. Sincerely, Ashley Bradner On Sep 9, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Cody Bair wrote: > Ashley, > Although learning ally charges a fee. There is a fee waver form that you can find on their website and fill out. I would reccomend doing this in order to get access to the wealth of books that learning ally offers. > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Sat, 9/8/12, Ashley Bradner wrote: > >> From: Ashley Bradner >> Subject: [nabs-l] research resources >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Saturday, September 8, 2012, 12:38 PM >> Hello all, >> I am fairly new to the list, so I apologize if this topic >> has already been discussed. I am finishing up my English >> minor and my courses are getting much more research >> intensive. I have no problems finding articles that I can >> use for research, but am not as successful at finding >> accessible books. The research I will mostly be doing >> revolves around culture and literary criticism. In the past, >> I have utilized bookshare, amazon, ibooks, and NLS. >> Sometimes I find what I'm looking for, but not always. I am >> aware of Learning Ally, but can't afford the membership fee >> at this time. I would love to hear your feedback and what >> sources you use for obtaining braille, audio, and electronic >> books. Thank you for your help. >> Sincerely, >> Ashley Bradner >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ambradner%40yahoo.com From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 02:29:45 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 22:29:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi i am not sure i took computers in college and had to have sighted assistance with projects like that. at the time I was using jaws 11 hopefully you can get some help with this project On 9/9/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi, > I am doing an assignment for my Intro to Computers course as one of my basic > general education requirements in college, and I am being asked to take a > picture that I have inserted in a Word 2010 document and align it with the > horizontal and vertical rulers on the side of the page. Is there any way to > do this with Jaws without being able to see it? I have Windows 7, Jaws 12, > and Microsoft Office 2010. > Thanks, > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Sep 10 03:27:04 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:27:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F784C0578B54E2F9AD1BA6F6E12D8AD@OwnerPC> Hi, correction. word 2012 does not exist. the latest is word 2010. Maybe you mean jaws 12. Anyway, not sure about the alignment. All I can think of is to use control L to left align it. You might need sighted help. -----Original Message----- From: tiffany miles Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 10:29 PM To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? hi i am not sure i took computers in college and had to have sighted assistance with projects like that. at the time I was using jaws 11 hopefully you can get some help with this project On 9/9/12, Misty Dawn Bradley wrote: > Hi, > I am doing an assignment for my Intro to Computers course as one of my > basic > general education requirements in college, and I am being asked to take a > picture that I have inserted in a Word 2010 document and align it with the > horizontal and vertical rulers on the side of the page. Is there any way > to > do this with Jaws without being able to see it? I have Windows 7, Jaws 12, > and Microsoft Office 2010. > Thanks, > Misty > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/qtiffany1%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From colorado.students at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 03:58:04 2012 From: colorado.students at gmail.com (colorado.students at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 21:58:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello I do not know of any way you can do that with Jaws but I would suggest to you that you maybe check the jaws help file for that program. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty Dawn Bradley Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 6:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Word 2012, Jaws, and Graphics? Hi, I am doing an assignment for my Intro to Computers course as one of my basic general education requirements in college, and I am being asked to take a picture that I have inserted in a Word 2010 document and align it with the horizontal and vertical rulers on the side of the page. Is there any way to do this with Jaws without being able to see it? I have Windows 7, Jaws 12, and Microsoft Office 2010. Thanks, Misty _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai l.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Sep 10 04:00:33 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:00:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> Message-ID: <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> No brandon, you probably don't want to lather your condom in lube before you pop it in her mouth. The lube is for other areas, generally. As for the flavored condoms, they work fine wherever, though the flavor only matters during oral, obviously. Or maybe not so obviously. I do find that picking them up being blind can be a bit awkward, but if you inject some common sense it's not a huge issue. Then again, I guess common sense is relative, and "I'm blind" is akin to "I don't have any for this area." On 9/9/2012 9:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on the bigger, > ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub I had at the time, to > get myself off with the faucet. Traditionally, I need something in my > ass, to cum. If I remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at > the blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If you're > relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be the bookstore, > personnel. Let us know how goes it, okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA > Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are professional >> and are trained to make customers feel at ease. Just make sure the >> shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> wrote: >> >> > Hello, >> > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said >> addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though >> that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me >> because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving >> the room. >> > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are >> something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before >> unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. >> > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral >> intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? >> > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind >> shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not >> pleasant. >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > >> > Hi all, >> > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >> > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >> > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >> > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >> > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >> > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >> > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >> > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >> > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >> > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >> > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >> > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >> > www.condomania.com >> > www.undercovercondoms.com >> > and >> > www.condomdepot.com >> > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >> > www.amazon.com >> > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >> > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >> > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >> > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >> > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >> > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >> > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >> > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >> > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >> > of information: >> > www.plannedparenthood.org >> > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >> > www.scarleteen.com >> > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >> > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >> > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >> > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >> > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >> > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >> > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >> > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >> > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >> > these online forums will talk about. >> > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >> > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >> > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >> > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >> > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >> > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >> > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >> > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >> > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >> > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >> > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >> > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >> > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >> > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >> > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >> > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >> > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >> > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >> > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >> > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >> > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >> > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >> > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >> > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >> > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >> > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >> > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >> > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >> > Best, >> > Arielle >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 04:08:01 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:08:01 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <3191284589205369337@unknownmsgid> You can find vending machines that sell condoms. There's also nothing wrong with ordering online from a trustworthy website. The good side of doing this is that the website will give you a lot more information about the product you are ordering than a regular store or vending machine, especially if you don't feel comfortable asking someone to read condom boxes for you... Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > No brandon, you probably don't want to lather your condom in lube before you pop it in her mouth. The lube is for other areas, generally. As for the flavored condoms, they work fine wherever, though the flavor only matters during oral, obviously. Or maybe not so obviously. > > I do find that picking them up being blind can be a bit awkward, but if you inject some common sense it's not a huge issue. Then again, I guess common sense is relative, and "I'm blind" is akin to "I don't have any for this area." > > On 9/9/2012 9:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: >>> >>> > Hello, >>> > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. >>> > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? >>> > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not pleasant. >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >>> > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >>> > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >>> > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >>> > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >>> > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >>> > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >>> > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >>> > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >>> > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >>> > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >>> > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >>> > www.condomania.com >>> > www.undercovercondoms.com >>> > and >>> > www.condomdepot.com >>> > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >>> > www.amazon.com >>> > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >>> > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >>> > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >>> > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >>> > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >>> > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >>> > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >>> > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >>> > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >>> > of information: >>> > www.plannedparenthood.org >>> > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >>> > www.scarleteen.com >>> > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >>> > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >>> > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >>> > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >>> > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >>> > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >>> > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >>> > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >>> > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >>> > these online forums will talk about. >>> > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >>> > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >>> > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >>> > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >>> > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >>> > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >>> > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >>> > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >>> > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >>> > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >>> > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >>> > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >>> > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >>> > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >>> > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >>> > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >>> > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >>> > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >>> > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >>> > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >>> > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >>> > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >>> > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >>> > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >>> > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >>> > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >>> > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >>> > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >>> > Best, >>> > Arielle >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Sep 10 04:12:58 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:12:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <3191284589205369337@unknownmsgid> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> <3191284589205369337@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <504D68CA.7030509@tysdomain.com> I don't remember seeing the vending machines. They used to be really popular, but they're sort of a gone deal, at least as far as I've seen. Ordering online is your best bet. If you can't, just catch a cab to the drug store and ask for some. It's kind of weird standing there asking some dude in front of everyone, but it's better than the alternatives. On 9/9/2012 10:08 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > You can find vending machines that sell condoms. There's also nothing > wrong with ordering online from a trustworthy website. The good side > of doing this is that the website will give you a lot more information > about the product you are ordering than a regular store or vending > machine, especially if you don't feel comfortable asking someone to > read condom boxes for you... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > >> No brandon, you probably don't want to lather your condom in lube before you pop it in her mouth. The lube is for other areas, generally. As for the flavored condoms, they work fine wherever, though the flavor only matters during oral, obviously. Or maybe not so obviously. >> >> I do find that picking them up being blind can be a bit awkward, but if you inject some common sense it's not a huge issue. Then again, I guess common sense is relative, and "I'm blind" is akin to "I don't have any for this area." >> >> On 9/9/2012 9:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? >>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >>>>> sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>> and >>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >>>>> partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >>>>> birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >>>>> of information: >>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >>>>> the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 04:14:18 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:14:18 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-3146190969873513571@unknownmsgid> Oh and you can always go and buy these things along with your partner, girlfriend or whoever it is that enjoys these things with you. It can be fun and stimulating to pick these up together. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > No brandon, you probably don't want to lather your condom in lube before you pop it in her mouth. The lube is for other areas, generally. As for the flavored condoms, they work fine wherever, though the flavor only matters during oral, obviously. Or maybe not so obviously. > > I do find that picking them up being blind can be a bit awkward, but if you inject some common sense it's not a huge issue. Then again, I guess common sense is relative, and "I'm blind" is akin to "I don't have any for this area." > > On 9/9/2012 9:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: >>> >>> > Hello, >>> > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. >>> > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? >>> > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience is often not pleasant. >>> > Thanks, >>> > >>> > Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >>> > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >>> > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >>> > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >>> > will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >>> > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >>> > that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >>> > who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >>> > sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >>> > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >>> > on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >>> > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> > There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >>> > www.condomania.com >>> > www.undercovercondoms.com >>> > and >>> > www.condomdepot.com >>> > Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >>> > www.amazon.com >>> > If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >>> > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >>> > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >>> > partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >>> > it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >>> > time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >>> > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >>> > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >>> > birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >>> > of information: >>> > www.plannedparenthood.org >>> > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >>> > www.scarleteen.com >>> > This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >>> > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >>> > inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >>> > known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >>> > but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >>> > sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >>> > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >>> > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >>> > to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >>> > these online forums will talk about. >>> > I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >>> > health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >>> > struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >>> > doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >>> > participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >>> > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >>> > and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >>> > was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >>> > the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >>> > ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >>> > there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >>> > to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >>> > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >>> > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >>> > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >>> > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >>> > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >>> > privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >>> > good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >>> > This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >>> > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >>> > activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >>> > around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >>> > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >>> > On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >>> > the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >>> > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >>> > emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >>> > Best, >>> > Arielle >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Sep 10 04:38:53 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 21:38:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504D68CA.7030509@tysdomain.com> References: <198047D4E5AE4A89BB5D24474BEA4206@BrandonsLaptop2> <2EC65016-DF23-4CAA-B045-22922BF075E0@samobile.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> <504D65E1.7070901@tysdomain.com> <3191284589205369337@unknownmsgid> <504D68CA.7030509@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909213517.01be7868@comcast.net> Guys, relax! Tyler is right, asking for a box of rubbers, to me, seems far better than the alternative I.E, unwanted pregnancy or disease. Get over it! They're just condoms and again, I believe a person's apprehension or embarassment or whatever, weill project onto other people, and you will most definitely be embarassed! 12 PM 9/9/2012, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >I don't remember seeing the vending machines. They used to be really >popular, but they're sort of a gone deal, at least as far as I've >seen. Ordering online is your best bet. If you can't, just catch a >cab to the drug store and ask for some. It's kind of weird standing >there asking some dude in front of everyone, but it's better than >the alternatives. >On 9/9/2012 10:08 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>You can find vending machines that sell condoms. There's also nothing >>wrong with ordering online from a trustworthy website. The good side >>of doing this is that the website will give you a lot more information >>about the product you are ordering than a regular store or vending >>machine, especially if you don't feel comfortable asking someone to >>read condom boxes for you... >> >>Sent from my iPhone >> >>On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:02 AM, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>>No brandon, you probably don't want to lather your condom in lube >>>before you pop it in her mouth. The lube is for other areas, >>>generally. As for the flavored condoms, they work fine wherever, >>>though the flavor only matters during oral, obviously. Or maybe >>>not so obviously. >>> >>>I do find that picking them up being blind can be a bit awkward, >>>but if you inject some common sense it's not a huge issue. Then >>>again, I guess common sense is relative, and "I'm blind" is akin >>>to "I don't have any for this area." >>> >>>On 9/9/2012 9:54 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>>>Hi, Brandon, >>>> >>>>I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on the bigger, >>>>ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub I had at the >>>>time, to get myself off with the faucet. Traditionally, I need >>>>something in my ass, to cum. If I remember, the folks in their >>>>wer very cool, look at the blind girl going to by herself a >>>>dildo! Don't worry! If you're relaxed, and cool about what you're >>>>doing so will be the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes >>>>it, okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>>Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>>professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>>Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>> >>>>>Respectfully, >>>>>Jedi >>>>> >>>>>Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hello, >>>>>>Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I turned 18, he >>>>>>said addio to being in with me at the doctor. I do find it >>>>>>amusing though that some doctors are actually really >>>>>>uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That only >>>>>>happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>>>Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel that condoms >>>>>>are something I want to buy from a website I've never heard of >>>>>>before unless someone I know has gotten or knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>>>I was told that flavored condoms were only to be used in oral >>>>>>intercourse. The same is not for lube I presume? >>>>>>Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How was it as a >>>>>>blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear the experience >>>>>>is often not pleasant. >>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >>>>>>gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >>>>>>most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >>>>>>So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >>>>>>will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >>>>>>Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >>>>>>that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >>>>>>who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >>>>>>sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >>>>>>embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >>>>>>on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >>>>>>going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>>>There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >>>>>>www.condomania.com >>>>>>www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>>>and >>>>>>www.condomdepot.com >>>>>>Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >>>>>>www.amazon.com >>>>>>If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >>>>>>be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >>>>>>I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >>>>>>partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >>>>>>it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >>>>>>time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >>>>>>pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >>>>>>disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >>>>>>birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >>>>>>of information: >>>>>>www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>>>(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >>>>>>www.scarleteen.com >>>>>>This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >>>>>>boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >>>>>>inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >>>>>>known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >>>>>>but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >>>>>>sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >>>>>>planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >>>>>>risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >>>>>>to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >>>>>>these online forums will talk about. >>>>>>I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>>>health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >>>>>>struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >>>>>>doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >>>>>>participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >>>>>>city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >>>>>>and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >>>>>>was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >>>>>>the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >>>>>>ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >>>>>>there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >>>>>>to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >>>>>>wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >>>>>>patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >>>>>>the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >>>>>>hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >>>>>>unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >>>>>>privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >>>>>>good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >>>>>>This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >>>>>>you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >>>>>>activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >>>>>>around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >>>>>>taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >>>>>>On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >>>>>>the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >>>>>>chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >>>>>>emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >>>>>>Best, >>>>>>Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>info for nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>>-- >>>Take care, >>>Ty >>>http://tds-solutions.net >>>The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Sep 10 05:53:56 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:53:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909225221.01e395a0@comcast.net> Hi, Dave, and others, I can't believe so much is being made of one of life's essential, building blocks! What's so significant? Call me blind but I just don't see it! Another list? Grow UP! oAt 10:03 AM 9/9/2012, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing >these topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a >search area for people to locate educational material, and local >centers in there area. Finally, if I remember, there are >confidential hotlines that individuals can call through local >hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you think about the >idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for it, and a >demand for correct information. > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: > > > I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't > offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early > 70's. You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And > -- for what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity > brothers agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then there > was the famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. > > > > Dave > > > > At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: > >> Hello, > >> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being > offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube > in their health centers. > >> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, > that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. > >> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health > center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I > would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there > every few months... > >> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there > is few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? > >> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show > them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. > >> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? > >> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex > unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to > make sure he has protection for his gender. > >> > >> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other > things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the > internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they > are any help there... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Mon Sep 10 06:51:15 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:51:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <3EFE3B5162C3403F8A6FCC6089FB47EA@OwnerPC> References: <3EFE3B5162C3403F8A6FCC6089FB47EA@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909235013.01bf3e70@comcast.net> Guys, ask the folks in the store, or at the touch screens! 'ts why they're there, is it not? for todyatoday, Car9/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Arielle, >Thanks. I think discussing access to information on >sexual health is fine as long as its not too graphic. You definitely >also tied it to blindness too! As with many things, people learn via >observation where as we depend on someone else for such info. >We cannot just go in and browse a store for such private stuff and >as you said we often depend on a parent or someone else for transportation. >I know I do because where I live there is no sidewalk to walk to a >bus, or I can get paratransit. > >I was also going to suggest buying condoms online or with a trusted >friend. Thanks also for the websites on preventing >pregnancy and STDS as this is something I wanted to research. > >Also, regarding medical appointments, I struggled there too. I was >driven there and had a parent assist me in filling out forms there. >I am still fine with that. >Oh on another note, with touch screens now, its nearly impossible to >walk into a clinic alone. In my area, the walk in clinics at the >pharmacy have you sign in via a touch screen with personal information. >I want a trusted person such as a family member taking me there >because there is no way I'd want to reveal such private info such as >date of birth or social security number or the name of my insurance >provider to a stranger! >I also had a parent take me into the doctors for a long time. >Finally I insisted as you did that they wait for me. I felt as you >do that I have a right to >medical privacy and that there was no need for them to discuss such >info with them. Besides I am pretty healthy and only take one med >and over the counter stuff on occasion, so >there really isn't much for them to know about. > >Good to know. I'm not the only one that had to assert some independence. > >Ashley > > >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:00 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >www.condomania.com >www.undercovercondoms.com >and >www.condomdepot.com >Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >www.amazon.com >If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >of information: >www.plannedparenthood.org >(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >www.scarleteen.com >This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >these online forums will talk about. >I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >Best, >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Mon Sep 10 08:06:05 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 03:06:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909225221.01e395a0@comcast.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909225221.01e395a0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carly, you are just going to have to accept that not everybody views stuff the same as you. Something that is easy for you might make someone else very nervous. There is no right or wrong, we are all different, we have different views, and different things scare us. That is just the way it is. Dave At 12:53 AM 9/10/2012, you wrote: >Hi, Dave, and others, > > I can't believe so much is being made of one of life's > essential, building blocks! What's so significant? Call me blind > but I just don't see it! Another list? Grow UP! > oAt 10:03 AM 9/9/2012, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >>I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for >>discussing these topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ >>page, with a search area for people to locate educational material, >>and local centers in there area. Finally, if I remember, there are >>confidential hotlines that individuals can call through local >>hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you think about >>the idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for it, >>and a demand for correct information. >> >>Sent from my iPad >> >>On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: >> >> > I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't >> offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early >> 70's. You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And >> -- for what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity >> brothers agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then >> there was the famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being >> offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and >> lube in their health centers. >> >> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, >> that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >> >> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health >> center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I >> would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in >> there every few months... >> >> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there >> is few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >> >> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show >> them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >> >> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >> >> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex >> unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to >> make sure he has protection for his gender. >> >> >> >> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and >> other things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms >> before the internet really became big because my brother is 16. I >> doubt they are any help there... >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org Mon Sep 10 12:23:42 2012 From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:23:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] research resources In-Reply-To: References: <1347215809.47166.YahooMailClassic@web110711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D01309C2F5D5C4C93CC5DE084807DF207817D0D@DBSSOEXCHANGE.fldbs.net> Your rehab program can pay for these membership fees as well if you are currently a student. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bradner Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research resources Hi Cody, Thank you for letting me know. I will most certainly fill this out. I didn't think to look for such a form. I think this will help greatly. Sincerely, Ashley Bradner On Sep 9, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Cody Bair wrote: > Ashley, > Although learning ally charges a fee. There is a fee waver form that you can find on their website and fill out. I would reccomend doing this in order to get access to the wealth of books that learning ally offers. > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Sat, 9/8/12, Ashley Bradner wrote: > >> From: Ashley Bradner >> Subject: [nabs-l] research resources >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Saturday, September 8, 2012, 12:38 PM Hello all, I am fairly >> new to the list, so I apologize if this topic has already been >> discussed. I am finishing up my English minor and my courses are >> getting much more research intensive. I have no problems finding >> articles that I can use for research, but am not as successful at >> finding accessible books. The research I will mostly be doing >> revolves around culture and literary criticism. In the past, I have >> utilized bookshare, amazon, ibooks, and NLS. >> Sometimes I find what I'm looking for, but not always. I am aware of >> Learning Ally, but can't afford the membership fee at this time. I >> would love to hear your feedback and what sources you use for >> obtaining braille, audio, and electronic books. Thank you for your >> help. >> Sincerely, >> Ashley Bradner >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ambradner%40yahoo. > com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs. fldoe.org From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Sep 10 13:23:01 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:23:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909235013.01bf3e70@comcast.net> References: <3EFE3B5162C3403F8A6FCC6089FB47EA@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909235013.01bf3e70@comcast.net> Message-ID: <504DE9B5.1030406@tysdomain.com> Yes, carly. But we kind of differ here. I'd kind of like to quickly do a self checkout, especially if it could be made accesible. On 9/10/2012 12:51 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Guys, ask the folks in the store, or at the touch screens! 'ts why > they're there, is it not? > for todyatoday, Car9/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Arielle, >> Thanks. I think discussing access to information on >> sexual health is fine as long as its not too graphic. You definitely >> also tied it to blindness too! As with many things, people learn via >> observation where as we depend on someone else for such info. >> We cannot just go in and browse a store for such private stuff and as >> you said we often depend on a parent or someone else for transportation. >> I know I do because where I live there is no sidewalk to walk to a >> bus, or I can get paratransit. >> >> I was also going to suggest buying condoms online or with a trusted >> friend. Thanks also for the websites on preventing >> pregnancy and STDS as this is something I wanted to research. >> >> Also, regarding medical appointments, I struggled there too. I was >> driven there and had a parent assist me in filling out forms there. I >> am still fine with that. >> Oh on another note, with touch screens now, its nearly impossible to >> walk into a clinic alone. In my area, the walk in clinics at the >> pharmacy have you sign in via a touch screen with personal information. >> I want a trusted person such as a family member taking me there >> because there is no way I'd want to reveal such private info such as >> date of birth or social security number or the name of my insurance >> provider to a stranger! >> I also had a parent take me into the doctors for a long time. Finally >> I insisted as you did that they wait for me. I felt as you do that I >> have a right to >> medical privacy and that there was no need for them to discuss such >> info with them. Besides I am pretty healthy and only take one med and >> over the counter stuff on occasion, so >> there really isn't much for them to know about. >> >> Good to know. I'm not the only one that had to assert some independence. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:00 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Mon Sep 10 14:12:38 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:12:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909225221.01e395a0@comcast.net> References: <50483a8a.04a9320a.1cd5.6afd@mx.google.com> <7C5BEBD4-D824-405D-8B61-B260931E0E2E@gmail.com> <9F3E63CD588B4A6FAF386E6E251AFEAD@BrandonsLaptop2> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909225221.01e395a0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <504DF556.6060101@tysdomain.com> Carly: I'm kind of half and half here. I think a lot of the "xomg sex" issue is the fact that a lot of blind people are sort of socially weird, which doesn't help if they're insolated from everything. Things like whether or not to get oral with lube on the condom for example might be common sense, but something like how to do a pregnancy test or something may not, since I believe that's all visual. Same with getting condoms; sure you can go to a drug store, but I think the links arielle gave are good for a lot of people to order online and not have to mess with the drug store. Anyway, my point is we're going to get a lot of weird stuff any time this topic comes up, but I think there are people that have genuine intelligent questions that maybe a blind person could answer. On 9/9/2012 11:53 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Dave, and others, > > I can't believe so much is being made of one of life's > essential, building blocks! What's so significant? Call me blind but I > just don't see it! Another list? Grow UP! > oAt 10:03 AM 9/9/2012, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> I think this discussion calls for a new list. A list for discussing >> these topics in the open. Maybe, we can offer a FAQ page, with a >> search area for people to locate educational material, and local >> centers in there area. Finally, if I remember, there are >> confidential hotlines that individuals can call through local >> hospitals to ask these questions. Dave, what do you think about the >> idea for adding a list for this topic? We see a need for it, and a >> demand for correct information. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 8, 2012, at 10:57 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: >> >> > I don't know what the norms are at health centers, they didn't >> offer birth control stuff when I was in school, back in early 70's. >> You could go to drugstore, and ask, what I always did. And -- for >> what it's worth, I remember some of my sighted fraternity brothers >> agonizing over how to procure condoms. And ... then there was the >> famous scene in the movie The Summer of '42. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 10:39 PM 9/7/2012, you wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Bring a condom... I still haven't heard about condoms being >> offered in High schools, but Colleges do have free Condoms and lube >> in their health centers. >> >> I've never gone in to ask for a condom at one of those places, >> that is something I would like to hear experiences from other people on. >> >> Is there a tactful way of asking for a free condom at a health >> center? I can go and ask point blank, but that feels to me like I >> would be seen as the horny blind guy. Especially if I came in there >> every few months... >> >> Perhaps I can go in for a flue shot and when I finish if there is >> few people there, ask for a tour of the condoms? >> >> Or do people try and get their friends to go with them and show >> them around? I could also ask my mobility instructor to show me. >> >> Do people know what would be most socially acceptable? >> >> It is my opinion that a guy should not even consider having sex >> unless he has a condom. It's very much the man's responsibility to >> make sure he has protection for his gender. >> >> >> >> Does anyone also know of a good website to buy condoms and other >> things off of? I know my parents stopped using condoms before the >> internet really became big because my brother is 16. I doubt they are >> any help there... >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Sep 10 15:28:47 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120909204728.01cb4900@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > > > Hi all, > > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > > > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > > > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > > > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > > > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > > > www.condomania.com > > > www.undercovercondoms.com > > > and > > > www.condomdepot.com > > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > > > www.amazon.com > > > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > > > be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > > > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > > > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > > > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms  and > > > birth control. There are  a couple different > websites with this kind > > > of information: > > > www.plannedparenthood.org > > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > > > www.scarleteen.com > > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > > > sex  should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > > > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > > > these online forums will talk about. > > > I also want to bring up  an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > > > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > > > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > > > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > > > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > > > hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > > > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > > > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > > > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > > > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > > > the names of all medications you take on  a > regular basis and any > > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > > > emergency room, this kind  of information may > be requested of you. > > > Best, > > > Arielle > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 17:35:47 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:35:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > > > Hi all, > > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > > > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > > > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > > > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > > > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > > > www.condomania.com > > > www.undercovercondoms.com > > > and > > > www.condomdepot.com > > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > > > www.amazon.com > > > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > > > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > > > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > > > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > > > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > > > of information: > > > www.plannedparenthood.org > > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > > > www.scarleteen.com > > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > > > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > > > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > > > these online forums will talk about. > > > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > > > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > > > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > > > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > > > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > > > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > > > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > > > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > > > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > > > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > > > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > > > Best, > > > Arielle > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 17:35:39 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:35:39 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2189861266444063116@unknownmsgid> That actually sounds like a good idea, but for some reason I feel as though it would make some people very uncomfortable. I can't wait for someone in here to go off on how awfully inappropriate it would be to publicly display condoms or something like that. Or maybe who know... I'll be surprised and people will find it useful? I believe selling condoms at the NABS table would not only be useful to some, but it would also have other meanings. Interesting idea. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2012, at 5:30 PM, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >>>> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >>>> www.condomania.com >>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>> and >>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >>>> www.amazon.com >>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >>>> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >>>> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >>>> of information: >>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >>>> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Sep 10 21:47:01 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:47:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video Message-ID: <504e5fe7.f2a83a0a.1f13.3224@mx.google.com> Hi Dave, How do you set this in Internet Explorer? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews Thank you, Danielle! I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking the way I do! :) Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Danielle Sykora wrote: Hi Desiree, That's very kind! Thank you!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Desiree Oudinot wrote: Joshua, Please don't use me as a reason to tell somebody that a certain discussion can't be had on this list. Although I'm not in a position to comment on Koby's original question because of my age and lack of experience on this topic, I do believe it is a valid question and one which is on-topic for this list, or at least for the list as it was intended to be. If a discussion about having sex as a blind person is not appropriate for a high school student such as myself to read, why do the high schools we go to offer sex education classes as part of their curricula? If we are not mature enough to even read a question which has any sort of sexual implication, why is time set aside during the school year to have class discussions about the truth about sex? If we are to be so sheltered as to never even learn the first thing about sex until we are full-grown adults, why are our parents encouraged by their children's schools and just about everybody else who knows anything about the education of children to teach their children about sex at an early age? We learn about sex, and our parents are encouraged (and often do) teach us about it because it is a fact of life; it is a part of the real world, whether you like it or not. Too often young people as young as 13 or 14 are peer-pressured to have sex or to say or do something that has a sexual implication. This is why I believe it is important that we learn about sex at an early age; the good, the bad, and the ugly of it. Then we will be able to make a truly informed decision as to what we will do in regards to sex. Conversely, if we are sheltered, as you suggest, and don't learn the first thing about sex or similar subjects, we will not be properly prepared for the real world as it is today. While it is important that parents teach their children morals, I believe it is equally important that they be honest with their children about what is really out there in the real world and the consequences of getting involved in things like sex at an early age. While I appreciate your efforts to keep the list free of inappropriate discussion and protect me and our other high school students from inappropriate content, I feel that you are doing it to the extreme, borderlining over-protectedness and sheltering. I joined this list as well as others knowing that I would be exposed to some parts of the real world which are somewhat adult in nature, but also knowing that I had the option not to comment on or follow those threads I felt uncomfortable with reading, and that there were many people on this list and others who are much older than I and therefore might talk about things I haven't been exposed to as much yet. But I don't have a problem with this, as I respect everybody's right to freedom of speech. In short, the fact of my being a high school student as well as a member of this list should not and (in my opinion) does not restrict the freedom of speech of any other member of this list to discuss what he/she wants to discuss, as long as it remains on topic for this list; that is, that it has something to do with blindness and/or being a student. If the moderator feels that the discussion is off-topic, he is the one whose job it is to tell whoever started the discussion. But just don't use my age as support for your claim that something is inappropriate for this list. Chris Nusbaum -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating Koby: this is off topic, especially since there are high schoolers on here. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Koby [kobycox at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 8:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Long-Distance Dating All, What should I do If this girl wants to have sex when I see her? Koby Sent from my iPhone On Sep 6, 2012, at 12:53 AM, Beth Hi all, I am currently taking a college statistics class. While I am not having any difficulty understanding the concepts, I am unsure how I should go about comunicating them to the professor in a way that will make sense to him. For example, signs such as the summation sign and X bar. I do all of my work on a computer with JAWS. Any input on how you have handled this issue in the past would be greatly apreciated. Thanks, Cody From iperrault at hotmail.com Tue Sep 11 00:28:50 2012 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:28:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics Class In-Reply-To: <1347321569.92626.YahooMailClassic@web110706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1347321569.92626.YahooMailClassic@web110706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Actually, I'm also taking a Statistics class. I have a note-taker, and have the teaching assistant write me the formulas. For math signs, just have the professor write them out in words like plus, minus, equals, stuff like that. The trick is to have all the notes, concepts, and assignments in all text, and in as many words as possible so that you'll totally understand them. From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 01:22:34 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 19:22:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics Class In-Reply-To: References: <1347321569.92626.YahooMailClassic@web110706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cody, I have taken several stats courses (on my fifth one this semester, to be exact) and I always make up my own symbols or write Greek letters in words, i.e. "sum(x+y) or "sigma(x+y), "x-bar" etc. I have never had any issues with this method and I think it is completely justified because as far as I know, JAWS is unable to read Greek letters and it is important that your homework assignments are written in a way that makes sense to both you and the professor. You may want to go back and review your homework as a study aid later so it is best to have it written in a manner that JAWS can read. The only time in my researcher life when using the right letters mattered is when I am writing a paper for publication and in that case, it is easy to have a reader change the word "sigma" to the actual character. But for homework or tests, using the words should be fine. Similarly, if an assignment requires drawing a graph or diagram, like a histogram, I think writing a verbal description of what the graph would look like is just fine. The professor just wants to know that you understand what the graph should look like and, like with the symbols, a verbal description has the advantage of being meaningful for both you and the professor. Again, invest the time with a reader if you are presenting the graph to other students, or writing a formal paper with it, but if it's just homework, the main thing is to show you understand what the graph should look like, what the relationships are between variables, etc. BTW, I started a new listserv on NFBNet, called "Social-Sciences-List", where we talk about statistics among other things. It is not very high-traffic so you may want to join it. Best, Arielle On 9/10/12, Ian Perrault wrote: > > Hi > Actually, I'm also taking a Statistics class. I have a note-taker, and have > > the teaching assistant write me the formulas. For math signs, just have the > > professor write them out in words like plus, minus, equals, stuff like that. > > The trick is to have all the notes, concepts, and assignments in all text, > and in as many words as possible so that you'll totally understand them. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 03:18:00 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:18:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or bringing on an unwanted political debate. I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. Arielle On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > Jedi >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Hello, >> > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > > >> > > Hi all, >> > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> > > that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> > > who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> > > sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> > > on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> > > www.condomania.com >> > > www.undercovercondoms.com >> > > and >> > > www.condomdepot.com >> > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> > > www.amazon.com >> > > If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> > > partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> > > it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> > > time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> > > birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> > > of information: >> > > www.plannedparenthood.org >> > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> > > www.scarleteen.com >> > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> > > sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> > > to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> > > these online forums will talk about. >> > > I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> > > health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> > > and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> > > was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> > > there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> > > privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> > > activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> > > around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> > > On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> > > the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> > > emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> > > Best, >> > > Arielle >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 04:15:16 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E4016164C0E405E90F0FAFD09CDED37@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe sex. There is a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with some practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... :) I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a sighted community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the blind community. I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or not) have some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against the grain of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has suggested that the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted world thinks. Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world looks at a gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. or a sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him and when she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something really weird and she turns around and walks a mile away. This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but both sexual health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of attention among blind individuals, and students in particular. I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that aren't meant to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would greatly improve convention. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Hi all, I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or bringing on an unwanted political debate. I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. Arielle On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > Jedi >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Hello, >> > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > > >> > > Hi all, >> > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> > > that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> > > who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> > > sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> > > on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> > > www.condomania.com >> > > www.undercovercondoms.com >> > > and >> > > www.condomdepot.com >> > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> > > www.amazon.com >> > > If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> > > partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> > > it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> > > time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> > > birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> > > of information: >> > > www.plannedparenthood.org >> > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> > > www.scarleteen.com >> > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> > > sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> > > to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> > > these online forums will talk about. >> > > I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> > > health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> > > and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> > > was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> > > there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> > > privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> > > activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> > > around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> > > On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> > > the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> > > emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> > > Best, >> > > Arielle >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Tue Sep 11 04:35:39 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:35:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <6E4016164C0E405E90F0FAFD09CDED37@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <1347290927.42177.YahooMailClassic@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <6E4016164C0E405E90F0FAFD09CDED37@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120910212913.01c39db0@comcast.net> Hey, Brandon, Yeah, I realize people's regard of topics differ widely, otherwise the whole messy affair of human sexuality wouldn't be so damned, minifying! and So I say to you, mysteries that are layered in a universe such as this, will only lurk there in the shadows if people don't TALK about it because presumably, talking about it leads to certain understanding. We are, after all talking about a building block of life. :15 PM 9/10/2012, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Hello, >We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe sex. >There is a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >with some practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... :) >I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >sighted community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >the blind community. >I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >not) have some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >against the grain of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a >TVI, has suggested that the NFB should really give some instruction >on how the sighted world thinks. Otherwise what will happen (and >what has happened) is the world looks at a gathering of blind people >and cringes because they are so weird. or a sighted girl sees a >blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him and when she is about >to sit down and say hi, the guy does something really weird and she >turns around and walks a mile away. >This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but both >sexual health and social issues are topics that are very much in >need of attention among blind individuals, and students in particular. >I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >aren't meant to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo >problems would greatly improve convention. >Thank you, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit >condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some >NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS >selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among >young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, >but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an >NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or >bringing on an unwanted political debate. >I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity >camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available >as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, >this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about >sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >Arielle > >On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>Hello, >>This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen >> >>a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be >> >>embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in >>the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, >> >>lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to >> >>provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or >> >>use a dental dam. >>Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing >>guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one >>don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot >> >>serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box >>for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course >> >>we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their >> >>own utensil's). >>Thanks, >> >>Brandon Keith Biggs >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Anmol Bhatia >>Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >>You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... >> >>Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them >> >>so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >>Anmol >> >>I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >>among flowers. >>Hellen Keller >> >> >>--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >>>From: Carly Mihalakis >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> >>>Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>Hi, Brandon, >>> >>>I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> > >>> > Respectfully, >>> > Jedi >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPhone >>> > >>> > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >>>wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hello, >>> > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>knows that site is trust worthy. >>> > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>presume? >>> > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>the experience is often not pleasant. >>> > > Thanks, >>> > > >>> > > Brandon Keith Biggs >>> > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>Silverman >>> > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> > > >>> > > Hi all, >>> > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>are kind of in a >>> > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>for this list, since >>> > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>unique to blindness. >>> > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>too far afield, I >>> > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>also think that >>> > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>legitimate one and >>> > > that there might be other blind people out here, >>>including teenagers, >>> > > who have similar concerns about how to get >>>condoms, birth control or >>> > > sexual health information without a lot of >>>awkwardness or >>> > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>you have to depend >>> > > on someone else (especially parents) for >>>transportation which can make >>> > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>including >>> > > www.condomania.com >>> > > www.undercovercondoms.com >>> > > and >>> > > www.condomdepot.com >>> > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>choices at >>> > > www.amazon.com >>> > > If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>reason, it shouldn't >>> > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>about condoms. >>> > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>having sex with a >>> > > partner because that is a highly individual >>>decision. However, I feel >>> > > it important that anyone who is considering having >>>sex for the first >>> > > time ensure you understand what all of your >>>options are for preventing >>> > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>advantages and >>> > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>to use condoms and >>> > > birth control. There are a couple different >>>websites with this kind >>> > > of information: >>> > > www.plannedparenthood.org >>> > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>or >>> > > www.scarleteen.com >>> > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>the moment because my >>> > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>pregnancy at a very >>> > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>guy she had only >>> > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>birth control pills, >>> > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>don't believe that >>> > > sex should be feared, it is something that >>>takes some responsibility, >>> > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>while minimizing the >>> > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>there are other ways >>> > > to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>less risky, which >>> > > these online forums will talk about. >>> > > I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>somewhat relevant to sexual >>> > > health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>of you might also be >>> > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>parents drive you to >>> > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>sit in or even >>> > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>college in my home >>> > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>doctors' appointments >>> > > and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>doctor while he/she >>> > > was examining me. This was partly because my >>>parents and I saw many of >>> > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>good opportunity to >>> > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>health while she was >>> > > there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>doctor recommended >>> > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>realized that while it >>> > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>privacy as an adult >>> > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>room while I was seeing >>> > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>until I was 21 and in >>> > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>By the time you are 18, >>> > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>you have a right to >>> > > privacy of your medical information and it is >>>important to establish a >>> > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>person interfering. >>> > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>health and by the time >>> > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>discussing your sexual >>> > > activities or questions with your doctors without >>>your parents being >>> > > around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>driver or even >>> > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>this problem. >>> > > On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>school, you should know >>> > > the names of all medications you take on a >>>regular basis and any >>> > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>ever have to go to the >>> > > emergency room, this kind of information may >>>be requested of you. >>> > > Best, >>> > > Arielle >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>your account info for nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > nabs-l mailing list >>> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>your account info for nabs-l: >>> > > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>account info for nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Sep 11 23:27:04 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:27:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef Message-ID: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet that Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What does that say about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of people watched it. sound off if you wish. Beth From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 01:27:03 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:27:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef In-Reply-To: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> References: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004001cd9085$b86354a0$2929fde0$@gmail.com> This just demonstrates to the entire community and the world that it is indeed respectable to be blind and that it is OK to be blind. It is also a great example of that, given the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical nuisance. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:27 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet that Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What does that say about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of people watched it. sound off if you wish. Beth _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From ray214 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 01:35:01 2012 From: ray214 at gmail.com (raymond lombardi) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 21:35:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef In-Reply-To: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> References: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <91B79A242A8C4BD0807723BBFA7229B9@RaymondPC> that says blind people can do whatever we want if we just set our minds to it. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Beth" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:27 PM To: Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef > Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet that > Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What does that say > about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of people watched it. > sound off if you wish. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ray214%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 02:06:13 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 20:06:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef Message-ID: <504fee15.05e3640a.69eb.ffffbc62@mx.google.com> That's just what I was thinking! Blindness should be reduced to a characteristic. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" <004001cd9085$b86354a0$2929fde0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a701cd908d$110919d0$0201a8c0@bfa617c5f939410> I think that this is just wonderful! I knew that this could be done. Before I ever thought about becoming a Holistic Health Practitioner, when I was 18/19, I wanted to be a Chef but, when I went to the rehab center in Richmond, VA, I was told that there was no way I could ever become a Chef and it was impossible and I could only prep for a Chef so, I gave up that career dream. I had no others to turn to discuss this at the time and no other resources I knew about at the time either. I just couldn't stand people who work with the visually impaired/blind and state that you can do anything if you work hard and put your mind to it and blind persons can do anything a sighted person can do and then every time I tried to do anything new, I was always told I couldn't do this or couldn't do that. I know much better now that many things are quite possible. Melissa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef > This just demonstrates to the entire community and the world that it is > indeed respectable to be blind and that it is OK to be blind. It is also a > great example of that, given the proper training and opportunity, > blindness > can be reduced to a mere physical nuisance. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:27 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef > > Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet > that Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What > does that say about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of > people watched it. sound off if you wish. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nightfury19%40verizon.net > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2437/5262 - Release Date: 09/11/12 > From steve.petrica at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 02:41:18 2012 From: steve.petrica at gmail.com (Steve Petrica) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:41:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef In-Reply-To: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> References: <504fc8c8.c2a0320a.5a4d.ffffa653@mx.google.com> Message-ID: There's a good interview with her at http://entertainment.time.com/2012/09/05/the-blind-chef-triumphs-christine-ha-masterchefs-surprise-finalist-talks-underdogs-and-inspirations/ Here's a small excerpt: Q. Since the show has been airing, what kind of reaction have you been getting from the vision-impaired community? A. I think they’re proud that I’ve been on national TV representing our community in a positive way. There have probably been negative representations before in the media about what the vision-impaired can do, or turning it into a sorrowful disability. I think I’ve been portrayed in a way that’s been more enabling than disabling. I’ve been grateful for that. Q. How do you feel about having your eyesight emphasized so much when your performance on the show is discussed? A. Sometimes it feels like a double-edged sword. It is something that should be mentioned because it is a challenge that I have to deal with and it is a part of me. It’s not something that can be really ignored. Then there was an episode where it shows me crying in my confessional interview saying, “I want to be taken seriously, I don’t want to be just an inspiration” and I think about that too. I don’t want people to feel sorry for me. It’s good to be an inspiration but I don’t want people to think that I’m just this ratings story. Steve On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet that > Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What does that say > about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of people watched it. > sound off if you wish. > Beth From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 12 08:22:20 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 03:22:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video In-Reply-To: <504e5fe7.f2a83a0a.1f13.3224@mx.google.com> References: <504e5fe7.f2a83a0a.1f13.3224@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It may vary from version to version, but in IE8 which is probably most common now, alt-t for tools, up arrow to internet options, and shift-tab to the tabs control and right arrow to privacy. Then there is a checkbox for popup blocker, which should be unchecked. Dave At 04:47 PM 9/10/2012, you wrote: >Hi Dave, > >How do you set this in Internet Explorer? > >Chris > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:00:17 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pop-ups when clicking on a video > >Most, if not all browser scan be set to prevent pop-ups. > >Dave > >At 10:49 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote: >Hi, >Today I was trying to play some videos on Kahn Academy (which many >of you probably have heard of, it helps people with schoolwork and >also has informative videos.) Anyway, when I clicked on the video, a >pop-up thing opened, and wouldn't allow the video to play. I had to >have my dad help me play it by closing the pop-up with his >mouse. How do you get around these? >Vejas From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 13:58:39 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:58:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Message-ID: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Sep 12 14:03:00 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:03:00 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: I've never heard of it. Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 14:11:53 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:11:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > I've never heard of it. > Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help > you can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Sep 12 14:18:26 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:18:26 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> , <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: That's the only accessible one I know of. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > I've never heard of it. > Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help > you can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 14:26:23 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:26:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria>, <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: <1E36A89647BE422F9E9CD2807DD39AFE@Gloria> thanks for your suggestion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > That's the only accessible one I know of. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >> is >> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have >> had >> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >> you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 14:28:00 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:28:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria>, <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi Joshua, Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of cites that talk about those programs? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > That's the only accessible one I know of. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >> is >> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have >> had >> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >> you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 12 14:56:05 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:56:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> , <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make you look well, blind. On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > That's the only accessible one I know of. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >> you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 12 14:58:36 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:58:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the same way. On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From robin-melvin at comcast.net Wed Sep 12 15:46:02 2012 From: robin-melvin at comcast.net (Robin) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:46:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> Hello, Gloria c., If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >I've never heard of it. >Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hi all, >I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >Gloria >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net From robin-melvin at comcast.net Wed Sep 12 16:14:35 2012 From: robin-melvin at comcast.net (Robin) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 09:14:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just wondering. I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! Just Sayin' At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a >lot of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of >accessibility, IMO. And you don't need braille overlays, they just >get in the way and make you look well, blind. >On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>That's the only accessible one I know of. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >>Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joshua Lester" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>>I've never heard of it. >>>Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>Blessings, Joshua >>>________________________________________ >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>>Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>>Hi all, >>>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >>>it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >>>situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >>>speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >>>you can give. >>>Gloria >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 16:26:00 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:26:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7E11CD96-C85F-4F7C-BE72-64E53A7F9908@gmail.com> I do not like the haven. I have an android that lets me go on line Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:58, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the same way. > On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 16:28:13 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:28:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <99E842F9-1842-4143-8083-6D9C2C54382D@gmail.com> The iPhone is great? As soon as I can, I am getting 1 Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:56, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. > As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make you look well, blind. > On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> That's the only accessible one I know of. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >>> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >>> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >>> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >>> you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From colorado.students at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 16:28:09 2012 From: colorado.students at gmail.com (colorado.students at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:28:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> Message-ID: I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robin Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just wondering. I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! Just Sayin' At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >you look well, blind. >On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>That's the only accessible one I know of. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >>Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joshua Lester" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>>I've never heard of it. >>>Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>Blessings, Joshua >>>________________________________________ >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>>Hi all, >>>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>Thanks for any help you can give. >>>Gloria >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>mail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>aedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >ast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai l.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 16:00:30 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:00:30 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7E11CD96-C85F-4F7C-BE72-64E53A7F9908@gmail.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <7E11CD96-C85F-4F7C-BE72-64E53A7F9908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D466A5B736B4A06B0901D2073419B02@userPC> I like the Haven because I can do more than what I was able to. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I do not like the haven. I have an android that lets me go on line Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:58, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the same way. > On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.co m _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 17:43:47 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:43:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Kristine Ha Crown Master Chef Message-ID: <5050c9d4.052b650a.0a82.4804@mx.google.com> Congratulations to Kriste Ha on being crowned a Master Chef. This means that even though we are blind we can do anyshing. We just have to put our minds to it. Even though Helen Keller was blind and deaf, she has influenced me in a very special way. From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 17:46:21 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:46:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> Message-ID: <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> Hi, Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Hello, > > Gloria c., > > If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone > Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone > 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader > (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly > IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. > OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted > Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. > > However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually > a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE > FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. > The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible > features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only > offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. > > I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which > Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. > > At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>I've never heard of it. >>Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >>Hi all, >>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >>it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >>situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >>speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >>you can give. >>Gloria >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 12 17:48:44 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:48:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: > I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore > they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals > choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something > makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Robin > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just > wondering. > > I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! > > Just Sayin' > > > > At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >> you look well, blind. >> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>> mail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>> com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >> ast.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 18:23:02 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:23:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi Tyler, Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. > On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Robin >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >> wondering. >> >> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >> >> Just Sayin' >> >> >> >> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>> you look well, blind. >>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>> com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>> ast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From zerone1683 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 18:24:01 2012 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:24:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria>, <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> Gloria: I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone independently. The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a matter of one year. Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise known as gingerbread. it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then the S3. Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to Android 2.36. I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a out-of-the-box handed to me. For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we can discuss the prospect further. You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. Regards, C.C. Alan -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi Joshua, Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of cites that talk about those programs? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > That's the only accessible one I know of. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf > of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >> Thanks for any help you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >> mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu > aedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 12 18:55:15 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:55:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> Message-ID: <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> Gloria: If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from > TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech > capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a > phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly > transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to > use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Hello, >> >> Gloria c., >> >> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of >> a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored >> that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader >> for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The >> BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box >> Screen Reader VoiceOver. >> >> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone >> at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the >> Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been >> discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >> >> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, >> which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >> >> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>> behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>> versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 17:39:08 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:39:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: Hello, Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). Or be a rebel and get an Android. AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android are basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are not very good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I don't know about the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came out and it was not very good. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > I've never heard of it. > Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of > Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help > you can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:06:45 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:06:45 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> Message-ID: <-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> Gloria, What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best experience. Just my opinion... Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: > Hi, > Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Hello, >> >> Gloria c., >> >> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >> >> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >> >> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >> >> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:09:22 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:09:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Gloria: > If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. > On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Gloria c., >>> >>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>> >>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>> >>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>> >>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:08:40 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:08:40 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-7843584671240317502@unknownmsgid> Mainly I don't really see the point of having a Braille overlay for the iPhone. I don't have anything against it, I just think the iPhone is fine as it is... Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:22 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Hi Tyler, > Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > >> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Robin >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>> wondering. >>> >>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>> >>> Just Sayin' >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>> you look well, blind. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:11:00 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:11:00 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-8300991133793951276@unknownmsgid> I have a similar keyboard. Mine is the Nuu Mini Key. Works flawlessly. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:56 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Gloria: > If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. > On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Gloria c., >>> >>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>> >>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>> >>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>> >>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:14:54 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:14:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> Message-ID: I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: > Gloria: > > I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone > independently. > The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a > matter of one year. > Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise > known as gingerbread. > it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then > the S3. > Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to > Android 2.36. > > I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I > am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted > assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. > Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to > explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a > out-of-the-box handed to me. > For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we > can discuss the prospect further. > You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. > > Regards, > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Joshua, > Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of > cites that talk about those programs? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> That's the only accessible one I know of. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:14:07 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:14:07 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > >> Gloria: >> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Gloria c., >>>> >>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>> >>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>> >>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:20:45 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:20:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4CFB85B3-D075-4F9D-A13F-FC6F94DCBB5D@gmail.com> Do you no of any? I want to look them up Thanks Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:14, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it > won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth > keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone > case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> Gloria: >>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Gloria c., >>>>> >>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>> >>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>> >>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 20:43:32 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:43:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Message-ID: <5050f402.27f6640a.5bd2.7f82@mx.google.com> Tyler, while I do not use the braille overlay with my iPhone and find it easier to just use it with VO, I agree with Robert. There is nothing wrong with looking blind. Besides, if you say that braille overlays make one look blind, you can say the same of a phone that talks or a braille notetaker, both of which I use and am not ashamed of. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> Message-ID: <1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> Hi, this samson side kick is it touch screen? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to >me. I am with t Mobil > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: > >> Gloria: >> >> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >> independently. >> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within >> a >> matter of one year. >> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 >> otherwise >> known as gingerbread. >> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and >> then >> the S3. >> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >> Android 2.36. >> >> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and >> I >> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >> out-of-the-box handed to me. >> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >> can discuss the prospect further. >> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Gloria G >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Joshua, >> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:03:07 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:03:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: hi, just so i am getting things correct. There is a keybord tha tis the same size as the eye phone and it just slides under the phone in the case? Thanks this sounds great. They will have these keybords in the stores, or do I need to special order it? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Gloria, > What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have > an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you > want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there > that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone > because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case > for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that > slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point > the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are > many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone > users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the > iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked > iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on > T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best > experience. > Just my opinion... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: > >> Hi, >> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, >> but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a >> touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch >> screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue >> my search. Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Gloria c., >>> >>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >>> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a >>> Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that >>> Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for >>> Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who >>> have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader >>> VoiceOver. >>> >>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at >>> this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box >>> accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued >>> and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>> >>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>> >>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >>>> is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I >>>> have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:09:06 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:09:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> <1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> Message-ID: <0F52C59E-C74E-498E-AE9F-4521408B2570@gmail.com> Yes and has a keyboard that pulls out. I use accsessability Mobil On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:50, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi, > this samson side kick is it touch screen? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >> >>> Gloria: >>> >>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>> independently. >>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a >>> matter of one year. >>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise >>> known as gingerbread. >>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then >>> the S3. >>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >>> Android 2.36. >>> >>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I >>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >>> can discuss the prospect further. >>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>> >>> Regards, >>> C.C. Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi Joshua, >>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 12 21:07:24 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:07:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5050F98C.60006@tysdomain.com> You don't actually buy a case, the keyboard snaps to the bottom of the phone. I ordered the keyboard on Amazon. On 9/12/2012 3:03 PM, Gloria G wrote: > hi, > just so i am getting things correct. There is a keybord tha tis the > same size as the eye phone and it just slides under the phone in the > case? Thanks this sounds great. They will have these keybords in the > stores, or do I need to special order it? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Gloria, >> What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have >> an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you >> want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there >> that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone >> because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case >> for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that >> slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point >> the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are >> many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone >> users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the >> iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked >> iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on >> T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best >> experience. >> Just my opinion... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >>> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech >>> capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a >>> phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly >>> transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to >>> use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Gloria c., >>>> >>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which >>>> SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I >>>> believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in >>>> the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been >>>> widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the >>>> Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the >>>> masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own >>>> out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple >>>> iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most >>>> out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has >>>> been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>> >>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, >>>> which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>> >>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>> behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? >>>>> If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen >>>>> Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say >>>>> something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not >>>>> and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:17:19 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:17:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Statistics Class Message-ID: <5050fbf4.2f1c340a.01b7.ffff9bc5@mx.google.com> Hi Cody and Arielle, Great advice as always, Arielle! Cody, I believe there are symbols in the Nemeth Code for Greek letters, so if it's possible for you to write your homework in Braille, that's also an option. I don't know all of them, as I'm only in intermediate algebra. I do know that the delta sign in Nemeth is 4-6 d. Arielle, I agree with you about verbal descriptions of graphs; in fact, that's what I do as well. Yesterday in math we did a lesson on graphing linear equations. In this lesson we had to create our own graph, including a title, a scale for the x and y axes, and labels for the x and y axes. Of course my math teacher didn't know how I was going to handle this, so she asked my TVI, who said (answering the same question asked by both my math teacher and me) that I could write a verbal description. For these kinds of problems, I put below my work as my verbal description "x equals (label,) y equals (label.)" I then put the increments used for the x and y axes, for example "x incrament equals counting up by 2's" or "y incrament equals counting up by 5's, every other space on graph." If I'm graphing a linear equation with a slope and a y-intercept, I'll write a verbal description that looks something like this: "Line starts at (y-intercept number) on the y axis, then goes up (rise) and to the left or right (run.) As long as the teacher/professor knows that you understand the concept and how the graph should look if there is a graph, I think you'll be good. They don't necessarily need to see an actual visual graff from everybody, and (in my experience) they definitely don't want the one blind person in the class to take forever and frustrate themselves trying to make a graph that looks correct. I think the verbal description would be enough. Hope this helps, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi Actually, I'm also taking a Statistics class. I have a note-taker, and have the teaching assistant write me the formulas. For math signs, just have the professor write them out in words like plus, minus, equals, stuff like that. The trick is to have all the notes, concepts, and assignments in all text, and in as many words as possible so that you'll totally understand them. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g mail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau m%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:23:01 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:23:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria><-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> <5050F98C.60006@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: so can you find a case to fit all of that? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > You don't actually buy a case, the keyboard snaps to the bottom of the > phone. I ordered the keyboard on Amazon. > On 9/12/2012 3:03 PM, Gloria G wrote: >> hi, >> just so i am getting things correct. There is a keybord tha tis the same >> size as the eye phone and it just slides under the phone in the case? >> Thanks this sounds great. They will have these keybords in the stores, or >> do I need to special order it? Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:06 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Gloria, >>> What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have >>> an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you >>> want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there >>> that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone >>> because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case >>> for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that >>> slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point >>> the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are >>> many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone >>> users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the >>> iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked >>> iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on >>> T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best >>> experience. >>> Just my opinion... >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >>>> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, >>>> but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both >>>> a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the >>>> touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will >>>> continue my search. Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Gloria c., >>>>> >>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>>>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >>>>> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a >>>>> Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that >>>>> Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for >>>>> Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who >>>>> have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader >>>>> VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>>>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>>>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone >>>>> at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the >>>>> Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been >>>>> discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>> >>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>>>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>> >>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:24:07 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:24:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com><1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> <0F52C59E-C74E-498E-AE9F-4521408B2570@gmail.com> Message-ID: <72840893541B424AAC75896AD288DEBA@Gloria> so you are able to put in all your own contacts, text, have messages read to you, and be able to go through all the minues on the phone? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Yes and has a keyboard that pulls out. I use accsessability Mobil > > > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:50, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi, >> this samson side kick is it touch screen? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything >>> to me. I am with t Mobil >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >>> >>>> Gloria: >>>> >>>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>>> independently. >>>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated >>>> within a >>>> matter of one year. >>>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 >>>> otherwise >>>> known as gingerbread. >>>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and >>>> then >>>> the S3. >>>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >>>> Android 2.36. >>>> >>>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone >>>> and I >>>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer >>>> to >>>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and >>>> we >>>> can discuss the prospect further. >>>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> C.C. Alan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi Joshua, >>>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >>>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:30:46 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:30:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <72840893541B424AAC75896AD288DEBA@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> <1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> <0F52C59E-C74E-498E-AE9F-4521408B2570@gmail.com> <72840893541B424AAC75896AD288DEBA@Gloria> Message-ID: Yes. And even download whatever I want or need. You may email me off list of you want. Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 17:24, "Gloria G" wrote: > so you are able to put in all your own contacts, text, have messages read to you, and be able to go through all the minues on the phone? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Yes and has a keyboard that pulls out. I use accsessability Mobil >> >> >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:50, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> this samson side kick is it touch screen? >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Gloria: >>>>> >>>>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>>>> independently. >>>>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a >>>>> matter of one year. >>>>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise >>>>> known as gingerbread. >>>>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then >>>>> the S3. >>>>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >>>>> Android 2.36. >>>>> >>>>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I >>>>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>>>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>>>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >>>>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>>>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>>>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >>>>> can discuss the prospect further. >>>>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> C.C. Alan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>> Of Gloria G >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi Joshua, >>>>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >>>>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:39:04 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 16:39:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com><1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria><0F52C59E-C74E-498E-AE9F-4521408B2570@gmail.com><72840893541B424AAC75896AD288DEBA@Gloria> Message-ID: <76CB58DEB5D8417E831CBB94CB73A315@Gloria> hey what is your email so we can talk off list? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Yes. And even download whatever I want or need. You may email me off list > of you want. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 17:24, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> so you are able to put in all your own contacts, text, have messages read >> to you, and be able to go through all the minues on the phone? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Yes and has a keyboard that pulls out. I use accsessability Mobil >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:50, "Gloria G" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> this samson side kick is it touch screen? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads >>>>> everything to me. I am with t Mobil >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Gloria: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>>>>> independently. >>>>>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated >>>>>> within a >>>>>> matter of one year. >>>>>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 >>>>>> otherwise >>>>>> known as gingerbread. >>>>>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and >>>>>> then >>>>>> the S3. >>>>>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up >>>>>> to >>>>>> Android 2.36. >>>>>> >>>>>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone >>>>>> and I >>>>>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>>>>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>>>>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer >>>>>> to >>>>>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>>>>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>>>>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address >>>>>> and we >>>>>> can discuss the prospect further. >>>>>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> C.C. Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Gloria G >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Joshua, >>>>>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know >>>>>> of >>>>>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>>>> versa. >>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 12 21:44:19 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:44:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <76CB58DEB5D8417E831CBB94CB73A315@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> <1AA2C1DBB7164B39BD3BAA94ACC4EBF8@Gloria> <0F52C59E-C74E-498E-AE9F-4521408B2570@gmail.com> <72840893541B424AAC75896AD288DEBA@Gloria> <76CB58DEB5D8417E831CBB94CB73A315@Gloria> Message-ID: Hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 17:39, "Gloria G" wrote: > hey what is your email so we can talk off list? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:30 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Yes. And even download whatever I want or need. You may email me off list of you want. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 17:24, "Gloria G" wrote: >> >>> so you are able to put in all your own contacts, text, have messages read to you, and be able to go through all the minues on the phone? >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Yes and has a keyboard that pulls out. I use accsessability Mobil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 16:50, "Gloria G" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> this samson side kick is it touch screen? >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavonya Gardner" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Gloria: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>>>>>> independently. >>>>>>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a >>>>>>> matter of one year. >>>>>>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise >>>>>>> known as gingerbread. >>>>>>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then >>>>>>> the S3. >>>>>>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >>>>>>> Android 2.36. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I >>>>>>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>>>>>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>>>>>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >>>>>>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>>>>>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>>>>>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >>>>>>> can discuss the prospect further. >>>>>>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> C.C. Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of Gloria G >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Joshua, >>>>>>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >>>>>>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>>>>>>> ail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 01:06:16 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 18:06:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi Tyler, Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all > that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch > of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover > and use it, it's kind of weird. > On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >> furthermore >> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >> blindness. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Robin >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >> wondering. >> >> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >> >> Just Sayin' >> >> >> >> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>> you look well, blind. >>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>> com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>> ast.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 01:12:13 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:12:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: this may be something to think about, but i think those keyboard/iphone cases would use up more battery life than if you had an overlay. Or is that wrong? don't the keyboard/iphone cases use bluetooth mechanisms, and doesn't bluetooth drain power? On Sep 12, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it > won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth > keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone > case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> Gloria: >>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Gloria c., >>>>> >>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>> >>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>> >>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 13 01:24:58 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:24:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <505135EA.8010509@tysdomain.com> Bluetooth does drain power. But it's nicer than one of them dotted overlay thingies, and they're really not the same thing. On 9/12/2012 7:12 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > this may be something to think about, but i think those keyboard/iphone cases would use up more battery life than if you had an overlay. Or is that wrong? don't the keyboard/iphone cases use bluetooth mechanisms, and doesn't bluetooth drain power? > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it >> won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth >> keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone >> case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> >>> Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>> >>>> Gloria: >>>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >>>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Gloria c., >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>>> >>>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>>> >>>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 13 01:25:58 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:25:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, > is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... > That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in > as time goes on. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Tyler, > Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? > Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? > I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the > blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness >> and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone >> with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to >> turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>> furthermore >>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>> blindness. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf >>> Of Robin >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>> wondering. >>> >>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>> >>> Just Sayin' >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>> you look well, blind. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>> behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>> versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>> >>>>> com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>> fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>> >>>> ast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>> >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >> he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 02:00:41 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:00:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hello, It will be around $2500 with a Braille display. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is > the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... > That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as > time goes on. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Tyler, > Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do > they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I > think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind > t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and >> all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a >> bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off >> voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>> furthermore >>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>> blindness. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Robin >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>> wondering. >>> >>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>> >>> Just Sayin' >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>> you look well, blind. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 02:02:54 2012 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:02:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to ultimately do the same thing, right? or no On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. > > On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Tyler, >> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Robin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>> wondering. >>>> >>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>> >>>> Just Sayin' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 13 02:11:01 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:11:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to cover the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able to type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can still use home row on my bluetooth. On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to ultimately do the same thing, right? or no > On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > >> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. >> >> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi Tyler, >>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>> Of Robin >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>>> wondering. >>>>> >>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>> >>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>> com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Ty >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>> ast.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 13 02:12:29 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:12:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5051410D.6020105@tysdomain.com> I must say, that's a perfectly reasonable price. I'll dash off to my money tree where I get the money for the other equipment made "for the blind by the blind," and I can be sure to pre order it as soon as it comes out! On 9/12/2012 8:00 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > It will be around $2500 with a Braille display. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got > mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the > money for it. > > On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the >> blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in >> as time goes on. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Tyler, >> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? >> Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned >> off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment >> for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness >>> and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone >>> with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to >>> turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>>> furthermore >>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the >>>> individuals >>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that >>>> something >>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf >>>> Of Robin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>> wondering. >>>> >>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>> >>>> Just Sayin' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, >>>>> IMO. >>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and >>>>> make >>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>> behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say >>>>>>> something is >>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>>> versa. >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>> >>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>> >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>>> fool; he >>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>> >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>> >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From treyman19 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 05:19:54 2012 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 01:19:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: <504DE9B5.1030406@tysdomain.com> References: <3EFE3B5162C3403F8A6FCC6089FB47EA@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120909235013.01bf3e70@comcast.net> <504DE9B5.1030406@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: It would be awesome to have a break out session about this subject. I also think that there should be a break out session on Blind dating. On 9/10/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > Yes, carly. But we kind of differ here. I'd kind of like to quickly do a > self checkout, especially if it could be made accesible. > On 9/10/2012 12:51 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Guys, ask the folks in the store, or at the touch screens! 'ts why >> they're there, is it not? >> for todyatoday, Car9/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Arielle, >>> Thanks. I think discussing access to information on >>> sexual health is fine as long as its not too graphic. You definitely >>> also tied it to blindness too! As with many things, people learn via >>> observation where as we depend on someone else for such info. >>> We cannot just go in and browse a store for such private stuff and as >>> you said we often depend on a parent or someone else for transportation. >>> I know I do because where I live there is no sidewalk to walk to a >>> bus, or I can get paratransit. >>> >>> I was also going to suggest buying condoms online or with a trusted >>> friend. Thanks also for the websites on preventing >>> pregnancy and STDS as this is something I wanted to research. >>> >>> Also, regarding medical appointments, I struggled there too. I was >>> driven there and had a parent assist me in filling out forms there. I >>> am still fine with that. >>> Oh on another note, with touch screens now, its nearly impossible to >>> walk into a clinic alone. In my area, the walk in clinics at the >>> pharmacy have you sign in via a touch screen with personal information. >>> I want a trusted person such as a family member taking me there >>> because there is no way I'd want to reveal such private info such as >>> date of birth or social security number or the name of my insurance >>> provider to a stranger! >>> I also had a parent take me into the doctors for a long time. Finally >>> I insisted as you did that they wait for me. I felt as you do that I >>> have a right to >>> medical privacy and that there was no need for them to discuss such >>> info with them. Besides I am pretty healthy and only take one med and >>> over the counter stuff on occasion, so >>> there really isn't much for them to know about. >>> >>> Good to know. I'm not the only one that had to assert some independence. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:00 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/treyman19%40gmail.com > -- Roosevelt Bradley From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 07:24:27 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:24:27 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <3B2B042A-B8CA-402E-B8FA-5583ACF53D5A@gmail.com> Yes, that's exactly what it is. You can order them from Amazon, but I'm sure you can find them in some stores. I think mine can be ordered straight from the maker at www.gonuu.com. It's a great product, for iPhone 4 and 4s. On Sep 12, 2012, at 11:03 PM, Gloria G wrote: > hi, > just so i am getting things correct. There is a keybord tha tis the same size as the eye phone and it just slides under the phone in the case? Thanks this sounds great. They will have these keybords in the stores, or do I need to special order it? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Gloria, >> What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have >> an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you >> want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there >> that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone >> because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case >> for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that >> slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point >> the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are >> many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone >> users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the >> iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked >> iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on >> T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best >> experience. >> Just my opinion... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Gloria c., >>>> >>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>> >>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>> >>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 07:25:58 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:25:58 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria><-6456055001230801367@unknownmsgid> <5050F98C.60006@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <8673B89D-B471-41CB-8119-FB74AF45D9F8@gmail.com> You don't need it. At least my keyboard is pretty much like a case. It snaps right under the phone so it protects the back and sides of the iPhone, still giving you access to volume controls etc. On Sep 12, 2012, at 11:23 PM, Gloria G wrote: > so can you find a case to fit all of that? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> You don't actually buy a case, the keyboard snaps to the bottom of the phone. I ordered the keyboard on Amazon. >> On 9/12/2012 3:03 PM, Gloria G wrote: >>> hi, >>> just so i am getting things correct. There is a keybord tha tis the same size as the eye phone and it just slides under the phone in the case? Thanks this sounds great. They will have these keybords in the stores, or do I need to special order it? Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Gloria, >>>> What's for sure is that the LG phone you are talking about won't have >>>> an accessible touch screen. I don't know what kind of research you >>>> want to do, but unfortunately there aren't that many phones out there >>>> that have an accessible touch screen. If you are scared of the iPhone >>>> because of its lack of a physical keyboard you can get a keyboard case >>>> for it. It's a regular iPhone case that has a small keyboard that >>>> slides out, just like on HTC or some Blackberry phones. At this point >>>> the iPhone is the best option in my opinion. It works great, there are >>>> many accessible apps for iOS and there are many other blind iPhone >>>> users out there to help you learn the new interface. Now that the >>>> iPhone 5 came out it shouldn't be too hard for you to find an unlocked >>>> iPhone 4 or even a 4s for a reasonable price. That phone would work on >>>> T-Mobile's network and it would almost certainly give you the best >>>> experience. >>>> Just my opinion... >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Gloria G wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Gloria c., >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>>> >>>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>>> >>>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 07:28:10 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:28:10 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <6FE8E32F-158E-42EC-91E5-D84203F8064E@gmail.com> They do use bluetooth, but typing on one of those is way faster than using the Braille overlay. In my case I turn off screen brightness completely so I think it makes up for VO and bluetooth usage. I use my iPhone a lot and it's fine. I just need to remember to charge it at night. On Sep 13, 2012, at 3:12 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > this may be something to think about, but i think those keyboard/iphone cases would use up more battery life than if you had an overlay. Or is that wrong? don't the keyboard/iphone cases use bluetooth mechanisms, and doesn't bluetooth drain power? > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 3:14 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > >> The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it >> won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth >> keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone >> case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> >>> Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>> >>>> Gloria: >>>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >>>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my search. Thanks >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> Gloria c., >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>>> >>>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>>> >>>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 13 08:41:35 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 03:41:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: An Immersion into System Access Standalone is Now Available Message-ID: > >I'm pleased to announce the release of a new textbook. An Immersion into >System Access Standalone. This textbook explores the basics of System >Access as well as some of the advanced features such as accessing Word, >Excel and the basics of accessing Internet Explorer 9 with System Access >Standalone. > > > >To review the table of contents and purchase your copy, please visit: > >http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/SystemAccess.htm > > > >CathyAnne > > > >CathyAnne Murtha > >Director > >Access Technology Institute > >cathy at blindtraining.com > >www.twitter.com/CathyAnneMurtha > >www.blindtraining.com > > > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 09:45:21 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 05:45:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Oh wow. I am sure I have never seen an overlay. I am also sure I wouldn't need itt. I am using a touch screen to type this, and I am doing just fine.looking blind isn't a big deal to me, however looking like an idiot, would be. Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 22:11, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to cover the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able to type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can still use home row on my bluetooth. > On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to ultimately do the same thing, right? or no >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. >>> >>> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >>>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi Tyler, >>>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>> Of Robin >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>>>> wondering. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>>> com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>>> l.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 09:52:23 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 05:52:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <55247C53-9677-4B22-B1F1-2D391D633294@gmail.com> This is y I try to use mainstream technology. They way, I don't need to cell my liver to get things. And I don't need to send thing away, pay to sen and the caust of the repairs. Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 21:25, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. > > On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Tyler, >> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Robin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>> wondering. >>>> >>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>> >>>> Just Sayin' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 13:01:16 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:01:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <9F85984B94CE4E059FF070736D2816B0@Gloria> Hi, Do you have contact info for APH? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Hello, > I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is > the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... > That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as > time goes on. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Tyler, > Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do > they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I > think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind > t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and >> all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a >> bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off >> voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>> furthermore >>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>> blindness. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Robin >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>> wondering. >>> >>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>> >>> Just Sayin' >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>> you look well, blind. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 13 14:49:46 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:49:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5051F28A.3060400@tysdomain.com> Well, look blind all you want. I have a guide dog and run around with my cane, so it's not that that I really ment as much as it just makes you look weird with dots all over your screen. People already have this weird "o he's blind" perception, I'd rather fix it over furthering it. "look, his screen is dotted. That's... cool!" On 9/13/2012 3:45 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Oh wow. I am sure I have never seen an overlay. I am also sure I wouldn't need itt. I am using a touch screen to type this, and I am doing just fine.looking blind isn't a big deal to me, however looking like an idiot, would be. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 22:11, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > >> The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to cover the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able to type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can still use home row on my bluetooth. >> On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to ultimately do the same thing, right? or no >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>> >>>> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. >>>> >>>> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >>>>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi Tyler, >>>>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>> Of Robin >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>>>>> wondering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Ty >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From agrima at nbp.org Thu Sep 13 17:25:27 2012 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:25:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Library Lion" - a new classic! Message-ID: <005f01cd91d4$c55a34d0$500e9e70$@org> September 2012 Book Club Selection Library Lion By Michelle Knudsen In contracted braille, $6.99 Ages 4 and up "One day, a lion came to the library..." Miss Merriweather, the head librarian, is very particular about rules in the library: There's no running allowed, and you must be quiet. So when a lion comes to the library one day, no one is sure what to do. There aren't any rules about lions in the library! Miss Merriweather decides that as long as the lion follows the rules, he is welcome. As it turns out, this lion seems very well suited to library visiting - and he never roars in the library, at least not since being shushed. But when something terrible happens, the lion quickly comes to the rescue in the only way he knows how. This disarming story will win over even the most ardent rule-keepers, with its feel-good ending and a reminder that sometimes there is a good reason to break the rules! An affectionate storybook tribute to that truly wonderful place: the library. Order at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/BC1209-LION.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 17:34:34 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:34:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <9F85984B94CE4E059FF070736D2816B0@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <9F85984B94CE4E059FF070736D2816B0@Gloria> Message-ID: Hello, There is a list for the Braille Plus 18, but on that list it is called the Orion. Orion-discuss-request at freelists.org?subject=subscribe Here is an article on it as well: http://accessibleworld.org/content/accessible-world-tek-talk-presents-braille-plus-18-american-printing-house-blind Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 6:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi, Do you have contact info for APH? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Hello, > I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is > the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... > That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as > time goes on. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Tyler, > Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do > they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I > think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind > t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and >> all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a >> bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off >> voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>> furthermore >>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>> blindness. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Robin >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>> wondering. >>> >>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>> >>> Just Sayin' >>> >>> >>> >>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>> you look well, blind. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>> com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>> ast.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 13 17:40:45 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 10:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fw: J.R. Martinez | I Want To Hear From You! Message-ID: <1347558045.15876.YahooMailClassic@web160702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 9/12/12, J.R. Martinez wrote: From: J.R. Martinez Subject: J.R. Martinez | I Want To Hear From You! To: "*|FNAME|*" Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 3:51 PM #yiv1114100772 #yiv1114100772outlook a{ padding:0;} #yiv1114100772 body{ width:100% !important;} #yiv1114100772 .yiv1114100772ReadMsgBody{ width:100%;} #yiv1114100772 .yiv1114100772ExternalClass{ width:100%;} #yiv1114100772 body{ } #yiv1114100772 body{ margin:0;padding:0;} #yiv1114100772 img{ border:0;height:auto;line-height:100%;outline:none;text-decoration:none;} #yiv1114100772 table td{ border-collapse:collapse;} #yiv1114100772 #yiv1114100772backgroundTable{ height:100% !important;margin:0;padding:0;width:100% !important;} #yiv1114100772 body, #yiv1114100772 #yiv1114100772backgroundTable{ background-color:#FAFAFA;} #yiv1114100772 #yiv1114100772templateContainer{ border:1px solid #696969;} #yiv1114100772 h1, #yiv1114100772 .yiv1114100772h1{ color:#202020;display:block;font-family:Arial;font-size:34px;font-weight:bold;line-height:100%;margin-top:0 !important;margin-right:0 !important;margin-bottom:10px 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Martinez Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your browser. Like me on Facebook Follow me on Twitter Forward to a Friend I want to hear your story! Traveling across the country has given me the unique opportunity to talk with people from all walks of life. I might be in your city to share my story, but my favorite part of the job is being able to hear your stories. Think you’ve got a story of hope and inspiration? I want to hear it. Send it to jr at jrmartinez.com, and I’ll pick stories every month to spotlight on my website at JRMartinez.com. Can’t wait to hear ‘em! Hi Everyone! I’m excited to announce that I’m teaming up with Timex Sports to run the 2012 ING New York City Marathon. On November 4, I'll be starting the marathon in last place -- that's right -- LAST PLACE. For every runner I pass, Timex will donate $1 to the New York Road Runners’ Youth Programs. You can follow my journey here on Facebook. But I need your help! 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Twitter: @iamjrmartinez "Like" me on Facebook Instagram: @iamjrmartinez  follow on Twitter | like on Facebook | forward to a friend  Copyright © 2012 J.R. Martinez, All rights reserved. You signed up to receive updates on KnowJR.com Our mailing address is: J.R. Martinez 4151 Prospect AvenueHollywood, CA 90027 Add us to your address book  unsubscribe from this list | update subscription preferences  From gloria.graves at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 17:42:15 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:42:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net><5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com><9F85984B94CE4E059FF070736D2816B0@Gloria> Message-ID: <9F14F0B71B264F3F98650F217DDC2809@Gloria> thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Hello, > There is a list for the Braille Plus 18, but on that list it is called the > Orion. > Orion-discuss-request at freelists.org?subject=subscribe > Here is an article on it as well: > http://accessibleworld.org/content/accessible-world-tek-talk-presents-braille-plus-18-american-printing-house-blind > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 6:01 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi, > Do you have contact info for APH? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:06 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> Hello, >> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is >> the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as >> time goes on. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Tyler, >> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do >> they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I >> think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the >> blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and >>> all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a >>> bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off >>> voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>>> furthermore >>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>>> blindness. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Robin >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>> wondering. >>>> >>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>> >>>> Just Sayin' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>>> versa. >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>> com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he >>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>> ast.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 18:00:49 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:00:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Message-ID: <50521f56.8595320a.234a.51da@mx.google.com> Ha anyone heard that the iphone 5 i coming to Cricket? Cricket i an unlimited phone ervice, so I'm thinking I might get the Iphone ometime next summer. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gloria G" References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> <5051F28A.3060400@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: People look at my eyes and can tell that I am blind. That is what I ment by that. Sorry if I confused you. Sent from my iPad On Sep 13, 2012, at 10:49, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Well, look blind all you want. I have a guide dog and run around with my cane, so it's not that that I really ment as much as it just makes you look weird with dots all over your screen. People already have this weird "o he's blind" perception, I'd rather fix it over furthering it. "look, his screen is dotted. That's... cool!" > On 9/13/2012 3:45 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> Oh wow. I am sure I have never seen an overlay. I am also sure I wouldn't need itt. I am using a touch screen to type this, and I am doing just fine.looking blind isn't a big deal to me, however looking like an idiot, would be. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 22:11, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >> >>> The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to cover the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able to type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can still use home row on my bluetooth. >>> On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to ultimately do the same thing, right? or no >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>>> >>>>> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the money for it. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little while... >>>>>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in as time goes on. >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Tyler, >>>>>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore >>>>>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals >>>>>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something >>>>>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Robin >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just >>>>>>>> wondering. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >>>>>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >>>>>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >>>>>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >>>>>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >>>>>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>>>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:52:27 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:52:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> <5051F28A.3060400@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I have an iPhone 4S with a tactile overlay on the keyboard. I also use a RefreshaBraille (made by APH) that connects wirelessly to my phone as a Braille display and wireless keyboard for my phone. The RefreshaBraille cost me $1800, so not cheap, but much less costly than a Braille notetaker. I don't think anyone should be put to shame for using the tools that they find most effective in their own personal case, whether that tool "looks blind" or not. Remember that everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and touch-screen typing may be easy for some of us, but may be very difficult for others of us to do quickly or accurately. I see nothing wrong with using a tactile overlay on my phone, just as I see nothing wrong with using my cane in public or using sighted guide at times when it is most convenient for me and my companion to do so. My sighted friends do have trouble using my phone when VoiceOver is active; however, they eventually figure it out, or I tell them how to turn VoiceOver off. The tactile overlay doesn't interfere with their access to my phone. Best, Arielle On 9/13/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > People look at my eyes and can tell that I am blind. That is what I ment by > that. Sorry if I confused you. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 13, 2012, at 10:49, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Well, look blind all you want. I have a guide dog and run around with my >> cane, so it's not that that I really ment as much as it just makes you >> look weird with dots all over your screen. People already have this weird >> "o he's blind" perception, I'd rather fix it over furthering it. "look, >> his screen is dotted. That's... cool!" >> On 9/13/2012 3:45 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >>> Oh wow. I am sure I have never seen an overlay. I am also sure I wouldn't >>> need itt. I am using a touch screen to type this, and I am doing just >>> fine.looking blind isn't a big deal to me, however looking like an idiot, >>> would be. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 22:11, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to cover >>>> the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide >>>> it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen >>>> stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys >>>> are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able to >>>> type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can >>>> still use home row on my bluetooth. >>>> On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the same >>>>> the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. okay, >>>>> granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to >>>>> ultimately do the same thing, right? or no >>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got >>>>>> mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out the >>>>>> money for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the >>>>>>> blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little >>>>>>> while... >>>>>>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put in >>>>>>> as time goes on. >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Tyler, >>>>>>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look like? >>>>>>> Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned >>>>>>> off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment >>>>>>> for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness >>>>>>>> and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal phone >>>>>>>> with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to >>>>>>>> turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>>>>>>>> furthermore >>>>>>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the >>>>>>>>> individuals >>>>>>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that >>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of Robin >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? >>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>> wondering. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an >>>>>>>>>> IPhone. >>>>>>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a >>>>>>>>>> nokia >>>>>>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a >>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, >>>>>>>>>> IMO. >>>>>>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and >>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be >>>>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? >>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobil, >>>>>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say >>>>>>>>>>>> something is >>>>>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>>>>>>>> versa. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>>>>>>>> fool; he >>>>>>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>>>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Ty >>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Take care, >>>> Ty >>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jty727 at gmail.com Thu Sep 13 21:58:20 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:58:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> <5050CAFC.6020008@tysdomain.com> <50513626.4090307@tysdomain.com> <5D2B792E-7D0E-4AE6-A38D-149AED9D168A@gmail.com> <505140B5.7040703@tysdomain.com> <5051F28A.3060400@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: What exactly is the "tactile overlay"? On 9/13/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I have an iPhone 4S with a tactile overlay on the keyboard. I also use > a RefreshaBraille (made by APH) that connects wirelessly to my phone > as a Braille display and wireless keyboard for my phone. The > RefreshaBraille cost me $1800, so not cheap, but much less costly than > a Braille notetaker. > I don't think anyone should be put to shame for using the tools that > they find most effective in their own personal case, whether that tool > "looks blind" or not. Remember that everyone has different strengths > and weaknesses, and touch-screen typing may be easy for some of us, > but may be very difficult for others of us to do quickly or > accurately. I see nothing wrong with using a tactile overlay on my > phone, just as I see nothing wrong with using my cane in public or > using sighted guide at times when it is most convenient for me and my > companion to do so. > My sighted friends do have trouble using my phone when VoiceOver is > active; however, they eventually figure it out, or I tell them how to > turn VoiceOver off. The tactile overlay doesn't interfere with their > access to my phone. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/13/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> People look at my eyes and can tell that I am blind. That is what I ment >> by >> that. Sorry if I confused you. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 13, 2012, at 10:49, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>> Well, look blind all you want. I have a guide dog and run around with my >>> cane, so it's not that that I really ment as much as it just makes you >>> look weird with dots all over your screen. People already have this >>> weird >>> "o he's blind" perception, I'd rather fix it over furthering it. "look, >>> his screen is dotted. That's... cool!" >>> On 9/13/2012 3:45 AM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >>>> Oh wow. I am sure I have never seen an overlay. I am also sure I >>>> wouldn't >>>> need itt. I am using a touch screen to type this, and I am doing just >>>> fine.looking blind isn't a big deal to me, however looking like an >>>> idiot, >>>> would be. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 22:11, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The overlay is this sorta sticky sheet of dots that's supposed to >>>>> cover >>>>> the keys when the keyboard is active. When I want my keyboard, I slide >>>>> it out. When I don't want it, I push it back in. End result my screen >>>>> stays dot free and I can type much faster. You'll learn where the keys >>>>> are if you type on the screen anyway, but you'll never really be able >>>>> to >>>>> type like on a normal keyboard. I type a bit differently, but I can >>>>> still use home row on my bluetooth. >>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:02 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>> How are the overlay and the bluetooth iphone case/keyboard not the >>>>>> same >>>>>> the are suppposedly to make it easier to type, or so i've heard. >>>>>> okay, >>>>>> granted one of them has a case, but they both are supposed to >>>>>> ultimately do the same thing, right? or no >>>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:25 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And because it's by the blind and for the blind, I hope you all got >>>>>>> mantions to sell or a friendly local Uncle Sam willing to dish out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> money for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 7:06 PM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> I believe the only phone built especially for the blind, by the >>>>>>>> blind, is the Braille Plus 18 coming out from APH in a little >>>>>>>> while... >>>>>>>> That will have Sim Card support on release with more carriers put >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> as time goes on. >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:23 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Tyler, >>>>>>>> Have you seen a phone with a Braille display? What do they look >>>>>>>> like? >>>>>>>> Do they have print numbers that show up when the speach is turned >>>>>>>> off? I think I understand the hole explaining specialized equipment >>>>>>>> for the blind t lay people. It is not easy. Laugh out loud >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 13:48, "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the psychological diagnosis. I've accepted my blindness >>>>>>>>> and all that. Yes, they make you look blind. You have a normal >>>>>>>>> phone >>>>>>>>> with a bunch of dots on the screen and if anyone sighted wants to >>>>>>>>> turn off voiceover and use it, it's kind of weird. >>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 10:28 AM, colorado.students at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for >>>>>>>>>> furthermore >>>>>>>>>> they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the >>>>>>>>>> individuals >>>>>>>>>> choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that >>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>> makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their >>>>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of Robin >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? >>>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>>> wondering. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just Sayin' >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an >>>>>>>>>>> IPhone. >>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >>>>>>>>>>> As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a >>>>>>>>>>> nokia >>>>>>>>>>> phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> lot >>>>>>>>>>> of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of >>>>>>>>>>> accessibility, >>>>>>>>>>> IMO. >>>>>>>>>>> And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>> you look well, blind. >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be >>>>>>>>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>>>>>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch >>>>>>>>>>>>> Q? >>>>>>>>>>>>> If >>>>>>>>>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobil, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say >>>>>>>>>>>>> something is >>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>>>>>>>>>> versa. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gloria >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>>>>>>>>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>>>>>>>>>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>>>>>>>>>>> com >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>>>>>>>>> fool; he >>>>>>>>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >>>>>>>>>>> ast.net >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai >>>>>>>>>> l.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a >>>>>>>>> fool; >>>>>>>>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>> Ty >>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>>>> he that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Take care, >>>>> Ty >>>>> http://tds-solutions.net >>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>>> he >>>>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 22:31:05 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:31:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120913152914.01bf9e10@comcast.net> Hi, List, Wouldn't myself get a Iphone if it were the last phone on this hear earth, even if I could afford it. The Haven is great! CarAt 10:39 AM 9/12/2012, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Hello, >Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). >Or be a rebel and get an Android. >AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android >are basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are >not very good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I >don't know about the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came >out and it was not very good. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Gloria G >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >>I've never heard of it. >>Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >>Hi all, >>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something >>is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>Gloria >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 13 22:57:27 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:57:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> Hi, Gloria, The Haven ought to fulfill your phone, needs including reading text messages! . Where do you get that it isn't accessible? let us know, kay? . /12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>Hi all, >>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something >>is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>Gloria >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 02:29:49 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 20:29:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> Message-ID: It's actually called a "tactile screen protector" and you can get it for around $10 from SpeedDots ( www.speeddots.com ) and AT Guys also sells it. It's not Braille, but just dots that cover all the letters on the on-screen keyboard as well as the row of controls at the bottom of the screen. It also acts as a screen protector so you don't get fingerprints or dirt on the screen. Arielle On 9/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Gloria, > > The Haven ought to fulfill your phone, needs including reading text > messages! . > Where do you get that it isn't accessible? > let us know, kay? > . /12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>Hi all, >>>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something >>>is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>Gloria >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >>-- >>Take care, >>Ty >>http://tds-solutions.net >>The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jty727 at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 02:35:23 2012 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 22:35:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> Message-ID: Oh cool. Thanks. On 9/13/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > It's actually called a "tactile screen protector" and you can get it > for around $10 from SpeedDots ( > www.speeddots.com > ) and AT Guys also sells it. It's not Braille, but just dots that > cover all the letters on the on-screen keyboard as well as the row of > controls at the bottom of the screen. It also acts as a screen > protector so you don't get fingerprints or dirt on the screen. > Arielle > > On 9/13/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> Hi, Gloria, >> >> The Haven ought to fulfill your phone, needs including reading text >> messages! . >> Where do you get that it isn't accessible? >> let us know, kay? >> . /12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>>Hi all, >>>>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something >>>>is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice >>>>versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>Gloria >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Take care, >>>Ty >>>http://tds-solutions.net >>>The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>>http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>>He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >>>he that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 10:06:02 2012 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:06:02 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120913155244.01dc9a10@comcast.net> Message-ID: I think it all depends on what you want to do with your phone. I use mine for calling and texting, but also email, browsing the internet, GPs and all kinds of other thins. If you don't need all that, I'm sure the Haven is a great alternative if you can find one. On Sep 14, 2012, at 12:57 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Hi, Gloria, > > The Haven ought to fulfill your phone, needs including reading text messages! . > Where do you get that it isn't accessible? > let us know, kay? > . /12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 18:37:33 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:37:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] talks program Message-ID: <68157A114E0845289EBCAD6BA8C715E6@Gloria> hi all, Does anyone know who is the manufacturer for the talks program? Thanks From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 14 21:04:07 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:04:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society at social gatherings Message-ID: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" If states have student seminars, this should be a topic covered during those sessions. I, for one, I am going to run the idea by the president of my state's student devision. I have friends at my school, but many times I have wanted to be included in their parties and gatherings. I imagine I am not alone in this and am trying to become just as socially active as my sighted peers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Nusbaum , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Hi Arielle, I, for one, have never even seen a condom to know what one feels like, so I'm kind of curious as to what a condom really is and what it looks like. This may be because of my age, but I don't think it is entirely that. If we were to take a survey of sighted high school students, probably a good many of them have seen a condom or could at least describe what one looks like, all weirdness and uncomfortable feelings aside. So, I really like your idea of doing a breakout session either at Washington Seminar or at another NABS/NFB event. Perhaps the NABS board could start by submitting the idea to the state NABS Presidents to see if they would be interested in doing such a breakout session at their respective state student seminars. While there is some truth to Carly's point that sex is a fact of life for everybody, I also believe that blind people, particularly blind students, don't get the exposure to sex and related things that sighted students get. This is partly because we're not able to see the visual models and representations that sighted students are seeing. Some of them can be reproduced into a tactile graphic, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tactile graphic of a condom. Therefore, if NABS could do something in this area, either on the state or national level, I think it would be a great help to those blind students who are curious about safe sex as a blind person. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50539bdb.4244340a.24f8.2571@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <940F4FDB93AB4622BAE8A24CAB826CD4@OwnerPC> Chris, Well, if you haven't seen a condom by when you attend college you can. Just go to your college health center and they'll show you one. I think I saw one once or twice at George mason when I went there. It’s a rubber piece that fits on you to protect stuff from going through to the girl. I believe its kind of baloon shaped. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health Hi Arielle, I, for one, have never even seen a condom to know what one feels like, so I'm kind of curious as to what a condom really is and what it looks like. This may be because of my age, but I don't think it is entirely that. If we were to take a survey of sighted high school students, probably a good many of them have seen a condom or could at least describe what one looks like, all weirdness and uncomfortable feelings aside. So, I really like your idea of doing a breakout session either at Washington Seminar or at another NABS/NFB event. Perhaps the NABS board could start by submitting the idea to the state NABS Presidents to see if they would be interested in doing such a breakout session at their respective state student seminars. While there is some truth to Carly's point that sex is a fact of life for everybody, I also believe that blind people, particularly blind students, don't get the exposure to sex and related things that sighted students get. This is partly because we're not able to see the visual models and representations that sighted students are seeing. Some of them can be reproduced into a tactile graphic, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tactile graphic of a condom. Therefore, if NABS could do something in this area, either on the state or national level, I think it would be a great help to those blind students who are curious about safe sex as a blind person. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" --- On Fri, 9/14/12, Peggy Fain wrote: From: Peggy Fain Subject: [talkshopchatters] News line conference To: talkshopchatters at yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 3:40 PM   Do you subscribe to  news line/ Are you interested in finding out more about news line? Please join us in room 393 on Saturday, September 15 when a special guest, Nijat Worley will be joining us to talk about news line. Mr. Worley is the manager of marketing/outreach for N.F.B. news line and will be presenting information for prospective news line subscribers and will entertain questions about news line from people who are using it.    We hope to have a big group of us so we can let news line know we are an important service made up of blind an visually impaired people from all over. I hope to see         you at 8;00 pM eastern time on the 15th. See you there.   peg __._,_.___ Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback . __,_._,___ From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:27:21 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:27:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: <4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC> Gloria, I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the I Phone and you do not want one. If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it has when you won't use it. I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as you dial; I think that is all is voiced. The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being made. You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last time I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found accessible phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold online. So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all accessible, but the major functions of it would be. And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:29:06 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:29:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> Message-ID: Hi all. With these touch screen phones, do you just memorize what button is what? What does the braille overlay do? I know its too small to label with braille, even one letter would take too much room. I guess the overlay would provide tactile marks so you know where the buttons are. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:03 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I've never heard of it. Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:32:40 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:32:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Tyler, Oh, that is why the haven isn't completely accessible. I know people who used the en V 3 and it seemed accessible. It would even read you text messages and allow the user to text and read the menus so you knew the missed calls. Unfortunately, the EN V 3 is not produced anymore; I wanted to buy one last time I needed a phone, and learned it was not produced. I heard the haven isn't made anymore either. But if it is, gloria might want to explore that option. If you just need to make calls, you do not need all the menus read. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the same way. On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help > you can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:34:29 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:34:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8EF829404BAC4D20AC82B91CB6FB0824@OwnerPC> gee, why did they have to discontinue the haven. too bad. -----Original Message----- From: Robin Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:46 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hello, Gloria c., If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >I've never heard of it. >Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hi all, >I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you >can give. >Gloria >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:37:02 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:37:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><5050A285.1000400@tysdomain.com><7.0.1.0.2.20120912091131.04b21280@comcast.net> Message-ID: <0A3977DE0535406EB8BFB3E9938BD473@OwnerPC> yep, that is an individual choice. I thought the overlays are clear, so it would not draw attention from anyone. I suppose it would benefit the user in locating the buttons as well. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: colorado.students at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:28 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I don't think that the braille overlays get in the way, and for furthermore they don't make you look blind. I would say that it is the individuals choice if he or she wants to use it. Also, if one fills that something makes them look blind then they are not yet ready to except their blindness. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robin Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:15 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones What's that supposed to MEAN? What's WRONG with lookin' BLIND? Just wondering. I'm TOTALLY Blind, and I'm PROUD!! Just Sayin' At 07:56 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >You don't need the braille overlay. I really do recommend an IPhone. >I wanted to avoid jumping on the band wagon, but I love it. >As an alternative, you can get talkx or uh, the other one on a nokia >phone, or you can get an android. They're nice, but they've got a lot >of issues. IPhone is the most advanced in terms of accessibility, IMO. >And you don't need braille overlays, they just get in the way and make >you look well, blind. >On 9/12/2012 8:18 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>That's the only accessible one I know of. >>Blessings, Joshua >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >>Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joshua Lester" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>>I've never heard of it. >>>Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>Blessings, Joshua >>>________________________________________ >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>>Hi all, >>>I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>Thanks for any help you can give. >>>Gloria >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>mail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>aedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain. >>com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comc >ast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/colorado.students%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sat Sep 15 01:41:39 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:41:39 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> , Message-ID: The overlay just gives tactile marks. Also, you can use a Braille keyboard to go with it. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all. With these touch screen phones, do you just memorize what button is what? What does the braille overlay do? I know its too small to label with braille, even one letter would take too much room. I guess the overlay would provide tactile marks so you know where the buttons are. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:03 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I've never heard of it. Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:45:16 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:45:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <-8300991133793951276@unknownmsgid> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria><5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-8300991133793951276@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5AB7CD3B108945AEA0D8E7DFD44FAD03@OwnerPC> so those of you who use keyboards, do you connect them to your phone or use a fuller size keyboard? Me, I'd have to have a closer to normal size keyboard because those small keyboards seem hard to type on, I can hardly feel one button from another. Also, curious how they run. Do you charge them up when you charge your phone? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I have a similar keyboard. Mine is the Nuu Mini Key. Works flawlessly. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 8:56 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > Gloria: > If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. > I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and > that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and > it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and > you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. > On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi, >> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, >> but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a >> touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch >> screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue >> my search. Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Gloria c., >>> >>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >>> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a >>> Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that >>> Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for >>> Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who >>> have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader >>> VoiceOver. >>> >>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at >>> this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box >>> accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued >>> and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>> >>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>> >>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >>>> is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I >>>> have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he > that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:50:37 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:50:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria><5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi, well, I am not as tech savvy. Do these bluetooth keyboards all hook to IOS devices like the I touch and Ipad? Is blue tooth a wireless technology? If so, do you just hold the keyboard near your device and type, and if not how do you connect the keyboard to your device? Sounds cool. If I ever got an I pod touch or smart phone with touch screen, i'd buy a bluetooth keyboard because I could then feel the keys to type. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> Gloria: >> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. >> I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and >> that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone >> and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit >> thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but >> it's not to bad. >> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >>> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, >>> but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a >>> touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the >>> touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will >>> continue my search. Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Gloria c., >>>> >>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >>>> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a >>>> Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that >>>> Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for >>>> Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who >>>> have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader >>>> VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at >>>> this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box >>>> accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued >>>> and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>> >>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>> >>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but >>>>> I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Sat Sep 15 01:56:36 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:56:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <5053E054.8000108@tysdomain.com> There were tons of menus that the ENV3 didn't read. It read contacts I think, but messages, a lot of the settings etc it wouldn't read. There was also no way to find out who texted you if you happened to miss the text. On 9/14/2012 7:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Tyler, > Oh, that is why the haven isn't completely accessible. > I know people who used the en V 3 and it seemed accessible. It would > even read you text messages and allow the user to text and read the > menus so you knew the missed calls. > Unfortunately, the EN V 3 is not produced anymore; I wanted to buy one > last time I needed a phone, and learned it was not produced. > > I heard the haven isn't made anymore either. But if it is, gloria > might want to explore that option. > If you just need to make calls, you do not need all the menus read. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really > "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the > fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't > read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the > same way. > On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >> Thanks for any help you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> > > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 01:51:52 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:51:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> Message-ID: <9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> Lavonya, Is your androyed a smart phone? What does it do besides make calls and connect to the internet? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: > Gloria: > > I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone > independently. > The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a > matter of one year. > Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 > otherwise > known as gingerbread. > it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then > the S3. > Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to > Android 2.36. > > I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and > I > am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted > assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. > Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to > explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a > out-of-the-box handed to me. > For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we > can discuss the prospect further. > You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. > > Regards, > C.C. Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi Joshua, > Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of > cites that talk about those programs? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> That's the only accessible one I know of. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 02:06:07 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:06:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net> <9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria> <5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi ashley not to change the subject but I have boost mobile as my service provider and my phone is the samsong transform autra and I am using wireless accessability also called mobile accessability. On Sep 14, 2012 9:59 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Hi, > well, I am not as tech savvy. Do these bluetooth keyboards all hook to IOS > devices like the I touch and Ipad? > Is blue tooth a wireless technology? If so, do you just hold the keyboard > near your device and type, and if not how do you connect the keyboard to > your device? Sounds cool. > If I ever got an I pod touch or smart phone with touch screen, i'd buy a > bluetooth keyboard because I could then feel the keys to type. > > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Ignasi Cambra > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it > won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth > keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone > case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner > wrote: > > Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >> Gloria: >>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. >>> I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and >>> that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone and >>> it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit thicker, and >>> you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but it's not to bad. >>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >>>> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, but >>>> I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both a touch >>>> screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the touch screen >>>> while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will continue my >>>> search. Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Gloria c., >>>>> >>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>>>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe Windows >>>>> Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a Screen >>>>> Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that Android has >>>>> vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for Android Phones. >>>>> OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who have adopted Apple's >>>>> iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>>>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box ACCESSIBLE >>>>> FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone at this time. The >>>>> only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the Box accessible features >>>>> is the Samsung Haven, which has been discontinued and was only offered on >>>>> Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>> >>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>>>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>> >>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>>>> behalf of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I >>>>>> have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible >>>>>> or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any >>>>>> help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>>> robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/**aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From qtiffany1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 02:19:11 2012 From: qtiffany1 at gmail.com (tiffany miles) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:19:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> <9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: For those that would consider this product it is free on sprint boost and version. It is called wireless accessability. The payed version is the same but it is called mobile accessability and it costs $99 I like this ap I can text make and receive calls it reads everything it is cool On Sep 14, 2012 10:06 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Lavonya, > Is your androyed a smart phone? What does it do besides make calls and > connect to the internet? > Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to > me. I am with t Mobil > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: > > Gloria: >> >> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >> independently. >> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a >> matter of one year. >> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 >> otherwise >> known as gingerbread. >> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then >> the S3. >> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >> Android 2.36. >> >> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and >> I >> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >> out-of-the-box handed to me. >> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >> can discuss the prospect further. >> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >> On Behalf >> Of Gloria G >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Joshua, >> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ______________________________**__________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> jlester8462%40pcc >>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> gloria.graves%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> jlester8462%40pccu >>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> gloria.graves%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> zerone1683%40gmail.com >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > ______________________________**_________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** > qtiffany1%40gmail.com > From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 02:37:00 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society at social gatherings In-Reply-To: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> References: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <78898D5E-D539-42C7-8A74-B79EC510B11F@gmail.com> Chris wrote, Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, self-loathing, and anguish. We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is interested. Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right way to act. This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people how to look and act like sighted people. Regards, Marc On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 03:22:56 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:22:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Message-ID: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most of the other people there are wearing suits. I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to these decisions for ourselves. Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that made some sense. Best, Arielle On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 04:29:55 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From kaybaycar at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 04:49:08 2012 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:49:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hieveryone, This is a very interesting topic. I feel like in this case the most important thing is for each of us to think about how we feel about our blindness. I believe that if we are not comfortable with ourselves as blind people, we cannot properly show sighted people that we should be included in things. Is it socially acceptable to call out a friend's name at a gathering because you know that person is near by but can't exactly place where? I don't see why not, unless you are screaming or in a seriously formal setting. But the rules of society would not look upon this method favorably. I'm sure there are other examples. I'm still getting to the point where I feel comfortable raising my hand or asking a neighbor for description of an essential part of something in a class or social setting. It's hard when you've been trained all your life not to disrupt things. But how else are we supposed to get the information? How else are we to participate if we don't ask for descriptions or explanations? I grew up thinking this was not socially acceptable. if a teacher described something, great, but if not, I was to deal with it and address it after class. I think it will be impossible for us to act just like sighted people in social settings, and like Mark I question whether it's always a good thing to conform to social norms, but if we can learn to use alternative techniques for social interactions, party games, and other things that might come up, and we can be comfortable with the fact that we are blind and may need to gather information in a different way, I think we will be on our way to showing sighted people that we are more than just the lonely blind person in the corner. Sorry for the horrible run-on sentence. :) I got really excited there. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 04:53:32 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:53:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2089220BADB2432499FE900C11ECF1A0@OwnerPC> Desiree, I would join such a list if it were created. You can create groups with yahoo sponsorship or another host. I think Arielle said she was interested too at one point; perhaps you and her can talk off list about it. Good topic. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:29 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 04:54:16 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:54:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: My short answer to this question is that I do not believe there is one single way that all sighted people interact, so there is not one way for us to emulate. Arielle On 9/14/12, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 05:01:55 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:01:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Arielle, Yes, you certainly made a lot of sense to me. What we all should be taking away from your message is that none of us has the right to pass judgment on another just because we should feel that someone else, whether we know them in real life or not, is making the so-called "blind community" look bad. yes, I put that in quotes, because you know what? I don't believe it exists. We are all individuals who are perhaps bonded by the common trait of seeing less than those in society who are deemed to see more than us. But again, seeing is relative. Some supposedly sighted people are shallow, while blind" people can be wise, deep, meaningful or any other emotional adjective you can apply to soul searching, if you will. So, sighted people see the physical world in which they live every day, and of course many of them can be good people, just as blind people can be, well, shallow and uninformed. But that's the beauty of it: just because we have nonfunctional eyes, or eyes that maybe don't work as well as others, doesn't mean we should be treated as second class citizens, nor should we criticize others for what they lack. I can think of many things I lack, or lacked in the past tense, but would have been considered normal for everyone to know at the time, and I had to hide for fear of what people would think of me if I revealed what I didn't know. When I was growing up, I longed to know someone who wouldn't judge me. I wanted more than anything to not be put down for things i didn't know. I wished my parents didn't say things about how I would grow up to be fat and worthless like most other blind people. I wish that people hadn't given up on me before I even knew what I was capable of, because as a result of that, I have no clue what I'm capable of now. I guess that's why I wish I could reach out to others who are in that position now, because I know how painful it is, and no, maybe I haven't fully gotten over my own past, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything. On 9/15/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 05:14:13 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:14:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society atsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> References: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Chris, Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose not conforming makes us look weird, incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be? No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just exactly how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss fashion or how to act this is best done by modeling. We need to be shown and have descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone conference just doesn't do this well IMO. Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings as an example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken rules there; I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked other students about the scene privately afterward. They dress like college students on campus which generally means with t shirts and blue jeans. Some students wear t shirts and athletic style shorts. Some dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most students wear sneakers or sandles depending partly on weather and confort. The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, rules of respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait your turn for it to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the food is handled. For instance at my bible study meetings. we passed food around the room on a plate or set it on the little coffee table in the middle of the room for people to walk to. Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other activities often were going on in other rooms, listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to speak, and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to go. Oh, and no assigned seating; first come, first served. I mention this so you don't have the impression that social gatherings are these formal times with many procedures and policies to follow. Social gatherings are simple a place to get together and have fun and share information; they are just that-- to socialize. Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. Now if you go to other more formal settings, big difference! A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal dance are examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings. If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms pertain to particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not in another. I struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have to ask someone and listen more to find out what is going on. It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation and for me it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure out a pattern and discern their norms. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society atsocial gatherings Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Made some sense to me, Arielle. I agree. There are plenty of people that are labeled "weird", as I was one of them. My mother repeatedly beat me on the head for moving it, screamed at me for moving the head back and forth, and threatened violence for talking out loud to either myself and people she didn't like. If a subject matter was not pleasing to my parents, they'd rigorously criticize me for talking about such things as my love life, certain elements of school, etc., and then there were the things they didn't like altogether. My bf thinks I'm making this up, but when I was four, I was told that princesses weren't real and I would never be one. Well, little girls like to pretend, and I was being a simple little girl, but my mother wanted a woman out of me before I was ready for that. Jason thinks the emotional abuse that took place was all stories, but it's not. Four-year-old girls play dress up, which is a social norm. Is it not? Rhetorical question number one. Number two: just because a parent is sitting there picking apart your conversation about a certain guy you like to a relative, does that mean you have to abide by their rules for talking to relatives? You can't talk about your sweetheart to your family, says my mom or dad. They never knew the NFB philosophy or CCB. I left them because of all the fights over something they did that was totally wrong and inconsiderate, and the way Florida VR wanted to play games with my life. When I say my mother threatened violence against my head wagging or subject matter infractions, she would hit me hard for doing so and cause a load of pain. She would threaten to do it again if I was caught moving it around. She would often threaten to put a sign around my neck saying "Keep your head still." That to me was pure hell. A for the subject matters, grounding or certain itemss taken away such as stereos or Internet privilege even when I was over eighteen. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120914222905.01db5ee8@comcast.net> Hi, Chris, and Ashley, Personally, I dress up when going to junior college class because to me, I do not work. School is my work, it is how I demonstrate for the department of rehab, as well as for others who may be looking on curiously, my sincerity, and the seriousness with which I take my "job" and for rehab' helping me with tuition. Car Bramlett wrote: >Chris, >Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose >not conforming makes us look weird, >incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be? >No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just >exactly how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss >fashion or how to act this is best done by modeling. We need to be >shown and have descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone >conference just doesn't do this well IMO. > >Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings >as an example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that >gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken >rules there; I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked other students >about the scene privately afterward. They dress like college >students on campus which generally means with t shirts and blue >jeans. Some students wear t shirts and athletic style shorts. Some >dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most students wear sneakers or >sandles depending partly on weather and confort. > >The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, >rules of respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait >your turn for it to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the >food is handled. For instance at my bible study meetings. we passed >food around the room on a plate or set it on the little coffee table >in the middle of the room for people to walk to. >Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other >activities often were going on in other rooms, >listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to >speak, and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to >go. Oh, and no assigned seating; first come, first served. > >I mention this so you don't have the impression that social >gatherings are these formal times with many procedures and policies >to follow. Social gatherings are simple a place to get together and >have fun and share information; they are just that-- to socialize. >Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. >Now if you go to other more formal settings, big difference! >A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal >dance are examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings. > >If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms >pertain to particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not >in another. I struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have >to ask someone and listen more to find out what is going on. >It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation >and for me it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure >out a pattern and discern their norms. > >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >society atsocial gatherings > >Hi Brandon and all, > >I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, >as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought >up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed >the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. > >Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >"fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >(the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >a future NABS membership call. > >Just my thoughts, > >Chris > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hello, >We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >sex. There is >a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >some >practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >:) >I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >sighted >community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >blind >community. >I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >not) have >some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against >the grain >of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >suggested that >the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >world thinks. >Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >looks at a >gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >or a >sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him >and when >she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >really weird and >she turns around and walks a mile away. >This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >both sexual >health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of >attention >among blind individuals, and students in particular. >I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >aren't meant >to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would >greatly >improve convention. >Thank you, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >Whozit >condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >some >NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >NABS >selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >among >young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >position, >but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, >an >NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >or >bringing on an unwanted political debate. >I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >diversity >camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >available >as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >fact, >this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >about >sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >Arielle > >On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >wrote: >Hello, >This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >never >seen > >a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >having to >be > >embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >condoms in >the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >browsing... >Condoms, > >lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >probably need >to > >provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >a condom >or > >use a dental dam. >Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >packing >guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >for one >don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >that sell >hot > >serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >buy a box >for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >(Then of >course > >we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >bring >their > >own utensil's). >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Anmol Bhatia >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > >You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >convention... > >Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >braille >them > >so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >Anmol > >I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >Perhaps >there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >like a breeze >among flowers. >Hellen Keller > > >--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >wrote: > >From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >, "National Association of Blind Students >mailing >list" > >Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >Hi, Brandon, > >I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >Respectfully, >Jedi > >Sent from my iPhone > >On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >wrote: > >Hello, >Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >knows that site is trust worthy. >I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >presume? >Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >the experience is often not pleasant. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle >Silverman >Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >are kind of in a >gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >for this list, since >most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >unique to blindness. >So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >too far afield, I >will happily respect your judgment. However, I >also think that >Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >legitimate one and >that there might be other blind people out here, >including teenagers, >who have similar concerns about how to get >condoms, birth control or >sexual health information without a lot of >awkwardness or >embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >you have to depend >on someone else (especially parents) for >transportation which can make >going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >There are a few places to buy condoms online, >including >www.condomania.com >www.undercovercondoms.com >and >www.condomdepot.com >Believe it or not, they also have some condom >choices at >www.amazon.com >If you go to your health center on campus for any >reason, it shouldn't >be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >about condoms. >I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >having sex with a >partner because that is a highly individual >decision. However, I feel >it important that anyone who is considering having >sex for the first >time ensure you understand what all of your >options are for preventing >pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >advantages and >disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >to use condoms and >birth control. There are a couple different >websites with this kind >of information: >www.plannedparenthood.org >(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >or >www.scarleteen.com >This issue is particularly close to my heart at >the moment because my >boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >pregnancy at a very >inopportune time (while still in college, with a >guy she had only >known for a few months) and was apparently taking >birth control pills, >but had not been taking them consistently. While I >don't believe that >sex should be feared, it is something that >takes some responsibility, >planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >while minimizing the >risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >there are other ways >to be physically intimate with someone that are >less risky, which >these online forums will talk about. >I also want to bring up an issue that is >somewhat relevant to sexual >health, which I experienced and I think that some >of you might also be >struggling with. This is the issue of having your >parents drive you to >doctors' appointments and then having them want to >sit in or even >participate in your appointments. Since I attended >college in my home >city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >doctors' appointments >and would then want to come in and chat with the >doctor while he/she >was examining me. This was partly because my >parents and I saw many of >the same doctors and she often thought it was a >good opportunity to >ask the doctor a quick question about her own >health while she was >there, or because she was curious to see what the >doctor recommended >to me about a particular issue. I eventually >realized that while it >wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >privacy as an adult >patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >room while I was seeing >the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >until I was 21 and in >hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >By the time you are 18, >unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >you have a right to >privacy of your medical information and it is >important to establish a >good doctor-patient relationship without a third >person interfering. >This is especially true when it comes to sexual >health and by the time >you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >discussing your sexual >activities or questions with your doctors without >your parents being >around. You might also want to consider getting a >driver or even >taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >this problem. >On a related note, by the time you are in high >school, you should know >the names of all medications you take on a >regular basis and any >chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >ever have to go to the >emergency room, this kind of information may >be requested of you. >Best, >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >%40samobile.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >account info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >mcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >40yahoo.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >m%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 05:47:20 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:47:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, and question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for the discussion part. What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each other aside, and sadly this is partly true. Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and blending in. You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like manners, what to do when you greet a new person, how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting or self stimulation that are. We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it’s a chronic issue, one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical theripist if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct posture. My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual stimulation to look up and around. Then it’s a habit to be bent over at the shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind kids were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this affects posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can shorten, lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I have some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my parents tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its simply that I'm looking around to see what I can. Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on that as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But I won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about rather than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my head still. I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where to find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is another, and finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB or APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists for the general audience. I don't know. Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach me this. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Hi all, I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most of the other people there are wearing suits. I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to these decisions for ourselves. Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that made some sense. Best, Arielle On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 05:51:06 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:51:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: <2089220BADB2432499FE900C11ECF1A0@OwnerPC> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> <2089220BADB2432499FE900C11ECF1A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Yes, she did. I'm seriously considering doing this. I've seen more than enough evidence to confirm that such a list should be created. On 9/15/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Desiree, > I would join such a list if it were created. You can create groups with > yahoo sponsorship or another host. > I think Arielle said she was interested too at one point; perhaps you and > her can talk off list about it. > > Good topic. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:29 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 05:58:09 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:58:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: As far as rocking goes, that is one problem I didn't have. But what I can't get out of the habit of is eye poking. I don't do it in public anymore, which I suppose is an improvement, but when I'm alone, I definitely do that. In one way, it's a method of stress relief, on a subconscious level that I can't understand. But every now and then my parents will catch me at it and tell me not to do it. As far as eye contact goes, I think that I look in the general direction of where someone is speaking, but I agree, nystagmus is a problem. I can't always control my eye movement, especially when I'm nervous or upset, plus I'm very sensitive to light so I have a tendency to squint or keep my eyes closed because keeping them open is uncomfortable or at times painful. Should I be condemned for not looking sighted for this? I certainly hope not. On 9/15/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, and > question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each other > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it’s a chronic issue, > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct posture. > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it’s a habit to be bent over at the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind kids > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this affects > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can shorten, > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I have > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my parents > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But I > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about rather > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my head > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where to > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists for > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach me > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 06:02:57 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:02:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505412fc.aa00320a.3b9d.0895@mx.google.com> References: <505412fc.aa00320a.3b9d.0895@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <62217904D9804BF3A721F67AE8422971@OwnerPC> Beth, That's terrible. But keep in mind that that is an extreme situation. Parents can enforce social behavior without these extreme behaviors on their part. Social norms is much much more than not rocking. And, beth, if you want to, you can still improve your behavior. One way to know if you are standing straight is to stand against a wall. If your head is straight and centered, it will be in the middle of your shoulders. You can draw an imaginary line between your ears and shoulder bones. I mean a straight line. I found out this wall trick when my personal trainer from years ago talked about posture. Posture is important for anyone doing exercise. So, she does this talk and demo with everyone, not just me. Its easy for anyone to have bad posture now since our society fosters sedintary living and we work at computers or slouch in front of tvs for relaxation. So, when we exercise, we bring some of these bad habits with us without knowing we did so. If you feel your body needs some flexibility or better alignment, you can also ask a doctor about it and if needed get refered for physical therapy. Posture, balance, gait, and general gross motor activities should be addressed as children. Sometimes they are not or they are addressed in the wrong way. This is why I believe a physical theripist for kids could help in this regard. They recognize imbalances early on and can go over activities with the child to improve their deficits. However, it may not be too late as an adult, particularly if you are young. As for talking out loud, my parents criticized this too. I still do this in the privacy of my home, it helps me think after all. But what I try to do elsewhere is think these things instead of saying them out loud. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:32 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Made some sense to me, Arielle. I agree. There are plenty of people that are labeled "weird", as I was one of them. My mother repeatedly beat me on the head for moving it, screamed at me for moving the head back and forth, and threatened violence for talking out loud to either myself and people she didn't like. If a subject matter was not pleasing to my parents, they'd rigorously criticize me for talking about such things as my love life, certain elements of school, etc., and then there were the things they didn't like altogether. My bf thinks I'm making this up, but when I was four, I was told that princesses weren't real and I would never be one. Well, little girls like to pretend, and I was being a simple little girl, but my mother wanted a woman out of me before I was ready for that. Jason thinks the emotional abuse that took place was all stories, but it's not. Four-year-old girls play dress up, which is a social norm. Is it not? Rhetorical question number one. Number two: just because a parent is sitting there picking apart your conversation about a certain guy you like to a relative, does that mean you have to abide by their rules for talking to relatives? You can't talk about your sweetheart to your family, says my mom or dad. They never knew the NFB philosophy or CCB. I left them because of all the fights over something they did that was totally wrong and inconsiderate, and the way Florida VR wanted to play games with my life. When I say my mother threatened violence against my head wagging or subject matter infractions, she would hit me hard for doing so and cause a load of pain. She would threaten to do it again if I was caught moving it around. She would often threaten to put a sign around my neck saying "Keep your head still." That to me was pure hell. A for the subject matters, grounding or certain itemss taken away such as stereos or Internet privilege even when I was over eighteen. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50539bdb.4244340a.24f8.2571@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120914225354.01ddc518@comcast.net> Hi, Chris, I am one who, pretty early on identified blind people receiving the short end of the sexual information stick, and I didn't have any belief watsoever in those drawings. I have been reading sexy, books as well as listening to Howard Stern and the Loveline, radio show with Adam Carola and Dr. Drew as well as just going out and doing, not trusting accounts of things. After all, most information is delivered to us via a 2nd sometimes 3rd, hand. So, I reasoned why sit on your hands if you have an opportunity actually to experience it? Is Experience not one's most trusted of teachers? So, I didm't know what a condom looked like so I went and found one, and for myself checked it out. I had been reading naughty books as a kid so I knew enough to get me into some fun, satisfying trouble. Car sighted high school students, probably a good many of them have seen a condom or could at least describe what one looks like, all weirdness and uncomfortable feelings aside. So, I really like your idea of doing a breakout session either at Washington Seminar or at another NABS/NFB event. Perhaps the NABS board could start by submitting the idea to the state NABS Presidents to see if they would be interested in doing such a breakout session at their respective state student seminars. While there is some truth to Carly's point that sex is a fact of life for everybody, I also believe that blind people, particularly blind students, don't get the exposure to sex and related things that sighted students get. This is partly because we're not able to see the visual models and representations that sighted students are seeing. Some of them can be reproduced into a tactile graphic, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tactile graphic of a condom. Therefore, if NABS could do something in this area, either on the state or national level, I think it would be a great help to those blind students who are curious about safe sex as a blind person. >Chris > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:18:00 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit >condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some >NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS >selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among >young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, >but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an >NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or >bringing on an unwanted political debate. >I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity >camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available >as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, >this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about >sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >Arielle > >On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Hello, >This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen > >a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be > >embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in >the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, > >lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to > >provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or > >use a dental dam. >Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing >guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one >don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot > >serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box >for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >(Then of course > >we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their > >own utensil's). >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Anmol Bhatia >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > >You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... > >Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them > >so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >Anmol > >I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >Perhaps >there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >among flowers. >Hellen Keller > > >--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >Hi, Brandon, > >I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >Respectfully, >Jedi > >Sent from my iPhone > >On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >wrote: > >Hello, >Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >knows that site is trust worthy. >I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >presume? >Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >the experience is often not pleasant. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle >Silverman >Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >Hi all, >I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >are kind of in a >gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >for this list, since >most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >unique to blindness. >So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >too far afield, I >will happily respect your judgment. However, I >also think that >Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >legitimate one and >that there might be other blind people out here, >including teenagers, >who have similar concerns about how to get >condoms, birth control or >sexual health information without a lot of >awkwardness or >embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >you have to depend >on someone else (especially parents) for >transportation which can make >going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >There are a few places to buy condoms online, >including >www.condomania.com >www.undercovercondoms.com >and >www.condomdepot.com >Believe it or not, they also have some condom >choices at >www.amazon.com >If you go to your health center on campus for any >reason, it shouldn't >be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >about condoms. >I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >having sex with a >partner because that is a highly individual >decision. However, I feel >it important that anyone who is considering having >sex for the first >time ensure you understand what all of your >options are for preventing >pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >advantages and >disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >to use condoms and >birth control. There are a couple different >websites with this kind >of information: >www.plannedparenthood.org >(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >or >www.scarleteen.com >This issue is particularly close to my heart at >the moment because my >boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >pregnancy at a very >inopportune time (while still in college, with a >guy she had only >known for a few months) and was apparently taking >birth control pills, >but had not been taking them consistently. While I >don't believe that >sex should be feared, it is something that >takes some responsibility, >planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >while minimizing the >risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >there are other ways >to be physically intimate with someone that are >less risky, which >these online forums will talk about. >I also want to bring up an issue that is >somewhat relevant to sexual >health, which I experienced and I think that some >of you might also be >struggling with. This is the issue of having your >parents drive you to >doctors' appointments and then having them want to >sit in or even >participate in your appointments. Since I attended >college in my home >city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >doctors' appointments >and would then want to come in and chat with the >doctor while he/she >was examining me. This was partly because my >parents and I saw many of >the same doctors and she often thought it was a >good opportunity to >ask the doctor a quick question about her own >health while she was >there, or because she was curious to see what the >doctor recommended >to me about a particular issue. I eventually >realized that while it >wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >privacy as an adult >patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >room while I was seeing >the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >until I was 21 and in >hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >By the time you are 18, >unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >you have a right to >privacy of your medical information and it is >important to establish a >good doctor-patient relationship without a third >person interfering. >This is especially true when it comes to sexual >health and by the time >you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >discussing your sexual >activities or questions with your doctors without >your parents being >around. You might also want to consider getting a >driver or even >taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >this problem. >On a related note, by the time you are in high >school, you should know >the names of all medications you take on a >regular basis and any >chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >ever have to go to the >emergency room, this kind of information may >be requested of you. >Best, >Arielle > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >%40samobile.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >mcast.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >40yahoo.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >m%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From tattenberg at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 06:20:43 2012 From: tattenberg at gmail.com (Trevor Attenberg) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 23:20:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and Sexuality+Social Norms Message-ID: <001e01cd930a$3d90fac0$b8b2f040$@gmail.com> Hey Gang, I admittedly don't read most emails on this list, so forgive me if I am a redundancy in the scheme of things. I found Arielle and other's messages on personal and sexual health to be quite pertinent to many of us. Indeed sexuality and blindness make for an interesting subject. It seems to me that a large share of the blind community may find it difficult to explore their sexuality for a number of reasons: transportation, lack of basic skills, overbearing parents and guardians, alienation from peers and other groups, incompatibility with many social scenarios, general stigma, etc. I wonder if high-level academics among us have explored this topic to any depth. I've been talking to some friends from Vietnam about some conferences and research in their own country concerning disabled people and sexuality/marriage. I wonder if some of us would like to share obstacles they face or did face as blind individuals, or if they have any anecdotes on the matter. I seem to recall someone on the list sharing some obstacles with his or her partner's parents during a relationship. In my own experience, many of my sighted friends assume that blind people such as myself desire and require people that share the blindness trait. There seems to be a lack of regard for the suitability and desirability of a prospective blind partner. Simultaneously, we in the blind community may at certain times lack the preparation we need. As we've touched on, sometimes young blind people have little opportunity to be exposed to tools for sexual health and pleasure. It appears to me there is the double whammy of underexposure and tabooed topics that stand in the way of learning. Certainly, sexual health was not discussed at any blindness training I've been through. On the other hand, I recall many events put on by NABBS, training centers, and state rehab services that aim to normalize socializing skills under different circumstances. I think NABS even had a dating break-out session back in 08 or 09. Not to say sex is always a necessary component in a person's lives. Some people don't even like sex at all. We're all a bit different. Sometimes perhaps blind people do desire different things from the typical sighted person. It's something for us to learn about and take pride in. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 07:06:41 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:06:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <62217904D9804BF3A721F67AE8422971@OwnerPC> References: <505412fc.aa00320a.3b9d.0895@mx.google.com> <62217904D9804BF3A721F67AE8422971@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Mark and all I'm usually scared to try and match whits with you so I'm glad I don't have to. We are pretty much in agreement. While I imagine most people who "spend their time reading medical journals and praying for a cure" could probably be happier if they accepted their blindness and made the most of their lives, in whatever way they chose, I have better things to do than try and convince them I'm right. Maybe, for them, I'm not. I wholeheartedly believe that people should be who they really are, not who anybody else, blind or sighted, wants them to be. If that means you stand out or seem strange to some, and you're doing what you really want to do (provided you're not taking away anybody else's right or ability to do the same) more power to you. Yes, if anyone was curious, I'm a Libertarian. However, I am someone who wants to have some influence in society. This isn't my main goal in life, it's not even one of my highest priorities, but it's high enough on my list that I, of my own free will and choice want to know those "unwritten rules" as best I can. This doesn't mean I'll blindly follow them; it just means I want to know the norms of whatever people I'm associating with. I'll break those regularly if I want to but at least I'll know I'm breaking them. I follow certain norms because they benefit me; if following the norm helps me do what I want to, I'll do it. If it doesn't, I won't. Go ahead, tear my whole argument apart. I eagerly await it. One more thing, then I'll say goodbye again. I don't think obsessing about following rules, to the letter, is good in social situations. Yes, it's good to dress up for a job interview if that's what the interviewer is expecting. But if you're the most qualified applicant and your suit pants have a wrinkle, odds are it won't hurt you. Being comfortable and at ease with what you are doing is, I think, more important than going through a checklist and making sure you're following every rule to the letter. Be what you are happy with, push and stretch yourself if you want to (you might just surprise yourself), and, to borrow from a popular book, don't sweat the small stuff. If you want to follow a certain norm or custom, trust yourself to find out what it is, through trial and error if necessary. But, most of all, find what really fulfills you and do it, social norms or not. All the best to everyone, Kirt On 9/15/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > That's terrible. But keep in mind that that is an extreme situation. > Parents can enforce social behavior without these extreme behaviors on their > > part. > > Social norms is much much more than not rocking. > And, beth, if you want to, you can still improve your behavior. > One way to know if you are standing straight is to stand against a wall. If > > your head is straight and centered, it will be in the middle of your > shoulders. You can draw an imaginary line between your ears and shoulder > bones. I mean a straight line. > I found out this wall trick when my personal trainer from years ago talked > about posture. Posture is important for anyone doing exercise. So, she does > > this talk and demo with everyone, not just me. Its easy for anyone to have > > bad posture now since our society fosters sedintary living and we work at > computers or slouch in front of tvs for relaxation. So, when we exercise, we > > bring some of these bad habits with us without knowing we did so. > If you feel your body needs some flexibility or better alignment, you can > also ask a doctor about it and if needed get refered for physical therapy. > > Posture, balance, gait, and general gross motor activities should be > addressed as children. Sometimes they are not or they are addressed in the > wrong way. > This is why I believe a physical theripist for kids could help in this > regard. They recognize imbalances early on and can go over activities with > the child to improve their deficits. However, it may not be too late as an > adult, particularly if you > are young. > As for talking out loud, my parents criticized this too. > I still do this in the privacy of my home, it helps me think after all. > But what I try to do elsewhere is think these things instead of saying them > > out loud. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:32 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Made some sense to me, Arielle. I agree. There are plenty of > people that are labeled "weird", as I was one of them. My mother > repeatedly beat me on the head for moving it, screamed at me for > moving the head back and forth, and threatened violence for > talking out loud to either myself and people she didn't like. If > a subject matter was not pleasing to my parents, they'd > rigorously criticize me for talking about such things as my love > life, certain elements of school, etc., and then there were the > things they didn't like altogether. My bf thinks I'm making this > up, but when I was four, I was told that princesses weren't real > and I would never be one. Well, little girls like to pretend, > and I was being a simple little girl, but my mother wanted a > woman out of me before I was ready for that. Jason thinks the > emotional abuse that took place was all stories, but it's not. > Four-year-old girls play dress up, which is a social norm. Is it > not? Rhetorical question number one. Number two: just because a > parent is sitting there picking apart your conversation about a > certain guy you like to a relative, does that mean you have to > abide by their rules for talking to relatives? You can't talk > about your sweetheart to your family, says my mom or dad. They > never knew the NFB philosophy or CCB. I left them because of all > the fights over something they did that was totally wrong and > inconsiderate, and the way Florida VR wanted to play games with > my life. When I say my mother threatened violence against my > head wagging or subject matter infractions, she would hit me hard > for doing so and cause a load of pain. She would threaten to do > it again if I was caught moving it around. She would often > threaten to put a sign around my neck saying "Keep your head > still." That to me was pure hell. A for the subject matters, > grounding or certain itemss taken away such as stereos or > Internet privilege even when I was over eighteen. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 22:26:52 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe > that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to > work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if > I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we > need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset > of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. > I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" > than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending > in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's > face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer > in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 07:28:11 2012 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 01:28:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Message-ID: <50542e13.aac4320a.5e61.11a9@mx.google.com> Gee, Thanks, Ashley. I never knew I could overcome these things by hindsight. Also, I am not sure of why things happened, but whatever. I can do anything if I set my mind to it, but social norms to me are too much for girls. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50539bdb.4244340a.24f8.2571@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Trust me, when you have the chance to feel one (inside and then outside the package), you will be disappointed. They are packaged in little envelopes that are vacuum packed. Note: always make sure that the package is not broken or ripped in any way before use. You will know you found what you felt because you will find a small square package with a circle in the middle. They come in boxes(if bought at CVS). Usually clinics or schools give them out in single packs (1). It is ment to slip in to that pocket for easy access. Once it is opened, you will feel a balloon-like object. Check for anything out-of-the-ordinary before use. If it is pre-lubricated, then you will find that out too. Finally, there is no way to differentiate sizes by the packaging. Always ask the person who gives them to you about the expiration date. They due actually expire. You do not want to learn that the hard way or have someone not want to be let-down because you "did not know." That is a social slap in the face both to you when you get ready and she tells you that it is expired. So, in the beginning, get some free ones to find a good fit. What is your zip code? I am sure that some place local to you has free ones. You can find them almost anyware, especially health centers, clinics, hospitals, etc. Sent from my iPad On Sep 14, 2012, at 6:25 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Arielle, > > I, for one, have never even seen a condom to know what one feels like, so I'm kind of curious as to what a condom really is and what it looks like. This may be because of my age, but I don't think it is entirely that. If we were to take a survey of sighted high school students, probably a good many of them have seen a condom or could at least describe what one looks like, all weirdness and uncomfortable feelings aside. So, I really like your idea of doing a breakout session either at Washington Seminar or at another NABS/NFB event. Perhaps the NABS board could start by submitting the idea to the state NABS Presidents to see if they would be interested in doing such a breakout session at their respective state student seminars. While there is some truth to Carly's point that sex is a fact of life for everybody, I also believe that blind people, particularly blind students, don't get the exposure to sex and related things that sighted students get. This is partly because we're not able to see the visual models and representations that sighted students are seeing. Some of them can be reproduced into a tactile graphic, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a tactile graphic of a condom. Therefore, if NABS could do something in this area, either on the state or national level, I think it would be a great help to those blind students who are curious about safe sex as a blind person. > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:18:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 12:30:15 2012 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:30:15 -0300 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7F002D5703784493956F205EC164551A@userPC> I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is working on that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your posture is another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in yoga. Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving range of motion so you can learn how to move and change your posture. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting a massage Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyats.. could help ocial gatherings Arielle, I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, and question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for the discussion part. What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each other aside, and sadly this is partly true. Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and blending in. You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like manners, what to do when you greet a new person, how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting or self stimulation that are. We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a chronic issue, one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical theripist if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct posture. My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent over at the shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind kids were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this affects posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can shorten, lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I have some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my parents tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its simply that I'm looking around to see what I can. Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on that as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But I won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about rather than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my head still. I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where to find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is another, and finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB or APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists for the general audience. I don't know. Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach me this. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Hi all, I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most of the other people there are wearing suits. I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to these decisions for ourselves. Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that made some sense. Best, Arielle On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 15 15:14:32 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 11:14:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <7F002D5703784493956F205EC164551A@userPC> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> <7F002D5703784493956F205EC164551A@userPC> Message-ID: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is working on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving range of motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting a massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, and > question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each other > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a chronic issue, > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent over at the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this affects > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can shorten, > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I have > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But I > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my head > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where to > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 16:00:49 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 10:00:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health In-Reply-To: References: <50539bdb.4244340a.24f8.2571@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Agreed. The first time I felt a condom inside the package, my first reaction was "Wow this is so tiny!" I was expecting this big latex balloon thing, and didn't realize you have to unroll it to get it into that shape. Of course the others at that sex ed workshop gave me grief for that :). Arielle On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Trust me, when you have the chance to feel one (inside and then outside the > package), you will be disappointed. They are packaged in little envelopes > that are vacuum packed. Note: > always make sure that the package is not broken or ripped in any way before > use. You will know you found what you felt because you will find a small > square package with a circle in the middle. They come in boxes(if bought at > CVS). Usually clinics or schools give them out in single packs (1). It is > ment to slip in to that pocket for easy access. Once it is opened, you will > feel a balloon-like object. Check for anything out-of-the-ordinary before > use. If it is pre-lubricated, then you will find that out too. Finally, > there is no way to differentiate sizes by the packaging. Always ask the > person who gives them to you about the expiration date. They due actually > expire. You do not want to learn that the hard way or have someone not want > to be let-down because you "did not know." That is a social slap in the > face both to you when you get ready and she tells you that it is expired. > So, in the beginning, get some free ones to find a good fit. What is your > zip code? I am sure that some place local to you has free ones. You can > find them almost anyware, especially health centers, clinics, hospitals, > etc. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 14, 2012, at 6:25 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Hi Arielle, >> >> I, for one, have never even seen a condom to know what one feels like, so >> I'm kind of curious as to what a condom really is and what it looks like. >> This may be because of my age, but I don't think it is entirely that. If >> we were to take a survey of sighted high school students, probably a good >> many of them have seen a condom or could at least describe what one looks >> like, all weirdness and uncomfortable feelings aside. So, I really like >> your idea of doing a breakout session either at Washington Seminar or at >> another NABS/NFB event. Perhaps the NABS board could start by submitting >> the idea to the state NABS Presidents to see if they would be interested >> in doing such a breakout session at their respective state student >> seminars. While there is some truth to Carly's point that sex is a fact >> of life for everybody, I also believe that blind people, particularly >> blind students, don't get the exposure to sex and related things that >> sighted students get. This is partly because we're not able to see the >> visual models and representations that sighted students are seeing. Some >> of them can be reproduced into a tactile graphic, but I think you'd be >> hard-pressed to find a tactile graphic of a condom. Therefore, if NABS >> could do something in this area, either on the state or national level, I >> think it would be a great help to those blind students who are curious >> about safe sex as a blind person. >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:18:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a >> box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 17:22:56 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef Message-ID: <5054b987.05d6e00a.5476.ffff919e@mx.google.com> Wonderful!!! Congratulations to Christine! I'm very glad that she won, as this (I believe) will help to dispel the myth that blind people can't cook. I mean, she won, which meant that she was better than the sighted chefs! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth References: <5054b987.05d6e00a.5476.ffff919e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5054BE5A.6090306@tysdomain.com> Myth that blind people can't cook? Where did you hear that. I think people think we can't do a lot of things, but it's not exactly a myth told around campfires. You just do what they think you can't and life goes on. On 9/15/2012 11:22 AM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Wonderful!!! Congratulations to Christine! I'm very glad that she won, > as this (I believe) will help to dispel the myth that blind people > can't cook. I mean, she won, which meant that she was better than the > sighted chefs! > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Beth To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:27:04 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef > > Hi, you guys. I just heard through some birdies on the Internet > that Christine Ha, a blind chef, got crowned master chef. What > does that say about us as blind people in general? I bet lots of > people watched it. sound off if you wish. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 17:56:23 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:56:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com> <9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <366026C9-566D-479C-91C4-2FADC9F5E3F9@gmail.com> My phone lets me email, text, reads pandora, set alarms, put in contacts, reads calls and texts even if I.'m on the phone, download apps, reads maps, YouTube, calendar, calculater. Sent from my iPad On Sep 14, 2012, at 21:51, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Lavonya > Is your androyed a smart phone? What does it do besides make calls and connect to the internet? > Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything to me. I am with t Mobil > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: > >> Gloria: >> >> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >> independently. >> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within a >> matter of one year. >> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 otherwise >> known as gingerbread. >> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and then >> the S3. >> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >> Android 2.36. >> >> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone and I >> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >> out-of-the-box handed to me. >> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and we >> can discuss the prospect further. >> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >> >> Regards, >> C.C. Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Gloria G >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi Joshua, >> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pcc >>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40g >>>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu >>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm >>> ail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 17:58:22 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 13:58:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5053E054.8000108@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <5053E054.8000108@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: My phone reads all settings Sent from my iPad On Sep 14, 2012, at 21:56, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > There were tons of menus that the ENV3 didn't read. It read contacts I think, but messages, a lot of the settings etc it wouldn't read. There was also no way to find out who texted you if you happened to miss the text. > On 9/14/2012 7:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Tyler, >> Oh, that is why the haven isn't completely accessible. >> I know people who used the en V 3 and it seemed accessible. It would even read you text messages and allow the user to text and read the menus so you knew the missed calls. >> Unfortunately, the EN V 3 is not produced anymore; I wanted to buy one last time I needed a phone, and learned it was not produced. >> >> I heard the haven isn't made anymore either. But if it is, gloria might want to explore that option. >> If you just need to make calls, you do not need all the menus read. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really >> "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the >> fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't >> read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the >> same way. >> On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 20:10:53 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 14:10:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <5053E054.8000108@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, The iPhone screen reader, VoiceOver, helps with touch-screen navigation by voicing every button you touch. You can drag your finger around the screen until VoiceOver says what you need, and then touch the screen with a second finger (a "split tap") or tap your finger twice quickly on the button to select it ("double-tap"). You can also flick the right-hand side of the screen to move the cursor from one screen element to the next. Once you have used the phone for a while, you will remember where many things are on the screen; for example, when I am on the home screen, "Phone" is in the lower left and "Messages" (for texting) is on the upper left. HTH, Arielle On 9/15/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > My phone reads all settings > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 14, 2012, at 21:56, "Littlefield, Tyler" > wrote: > >> There were tons of menus that the ENV3 didn't read. It read contacts I >> think, but messages, a lot of the settings etc it wouldn't read. There was >> also no way to find out who texted you if you happened to miss the text. >> On 9/14/2012 7:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Tyler, >>> Oh, that is why the haven isn't completely accessible. >>> I know people who used the en V 3 and it seemed accessible. It would even >>> read you text messages and allow the user to text and read the menus so >>> you knew the missed calls. >>> Unfortunately, the EN V 3 is not produced anymore; I wanted to buy one >>> last time I needed a phone, and learned it was not produced. >>> >>> I heard the haven isn't made anymore either. But if it is, gloria might >>> want to explore that option. >>> If you just need to make calls, you do not need all the menus read. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really >>> "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the >>> fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't >>> read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the >>> same way. >>> On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >>>> is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I >>>> have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >> that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 21:10:42 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> <7F002D5703784493956F205EC164551A@userPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the things your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is totally unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing your love life or with playing princess games when you were little and those things don't even have anything to do with your being blind. If you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help you cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still affecting you today. Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you will end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you have learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear that you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I hope that you will get to know some other blind people a little better so that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives near you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are the best defense against the kinds of negative messages about blindness and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. The best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy doing, is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of people who don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in blind people. Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a lot about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around us. While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, it doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being accepted is to move to a different community or a different situation whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might mean moving to a place that has better public transportation so that the fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as much. Or, it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted women around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen years my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even requiring) me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear makeup. I also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. There were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was required to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to be accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that it wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few weeks later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided that all sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth my time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I started letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and spent all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know at the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once I grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a few sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the facials and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really didn't belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was also about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be accepted without having to change much of who I am. I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might be happier in a different environment--a different part of the country, attending college or volunteering with peers who share our interests, or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually believe that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. The family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the house is far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have the means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step toward building a life of your own design. I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility as far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen and cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for clubs to join with people in them who share your interests and views. And I would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know blind people, both those your age and those who are older who can mentor you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but you may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted people. Best, Arielle On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > >> I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is working >> on >> that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your posture is >> another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in yoga. >> Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving range of >> motion >> so you can learn how to move and change your posture. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM >> To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting a >> massage >> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyats.. could help ocial gatherings >> >> Arielle, >> I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. >> I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. >> We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that >> every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, >> particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. >> >> If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, and >> >> question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for >> the >> discussion part. >> What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that >> blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each other >> >> aside, and sadly this is partly true. >> Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and >> blending in. >> You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like >> manners, what to do when you greet a new person, >> how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, >> nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. >> Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting >> or >> self stimulation that are. >> >> We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal >> communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a chronic issue, >> >> one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying >> coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical >> theripist >> if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct >> posture. >> >> My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual >> stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent over at >> the >> shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind >> kids >> >> were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this affects >> >> posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can shorten, >> >> lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. >> >> I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I have >> >> some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their >> nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my >> parents >> >> tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its >> simply >> that I'm looking around to see what I can. >> Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on >> that >> as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance >> probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop >> rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm >> doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But I >> >> won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about >> rather >> >> than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my head >> >> still. >> >> >> I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where to >> >> find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources >> about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is >> >> another, and >> finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing >> videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB >> or >> APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists >> for >> >> the general audience. I don't know. >> >> Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. >> Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach >> me >> >> this. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" >> is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, >> attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no >> religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, >> customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many >> subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not >> killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to >> dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ >> between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture >> (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in >> Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers >> etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of >> nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that >> blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make >> informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, >> just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work >> even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there >> are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody >> else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or >> "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need >> to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific >> situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is >> probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am >> doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably >> get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most >> of the other people there are wearing suits. >> I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how >> they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, >> i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read >> about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for >> students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to >> blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that >> preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does >> much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and >> again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to >> these decisions for ourselves. >> Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks >> who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted >> alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need >> to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social >> makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings >> with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I >> always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of >> the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I >> spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, >> struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with >> lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye >> contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than >> the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate >> student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. >> In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in >> and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to >> me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I >> have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and >> balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was >> learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination >> impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the >> fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face >> when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up >> toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes >> a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end >> up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have >> been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye >> contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or >> mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition >> practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in >> their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like >> these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or >> being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all >> members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, >> even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we >> should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as >> examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that >> made some sense. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 21:38:21 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 17:38:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com><7F002D5703784493956F205EC164551A@userPC> Message-ID: <3F8442D5090C47D4BA99E367163D6F37@OwnerPC> Arielle, Wow, what a story. I was going to say some of the same things. Isn't it something what parents, particulary mothers, will do in an effort to get their daughters to look beautiful. That sounds overkill on her part to get rid of acne. Sometimes I get zits but I don't have acne. While I think learning and conforming to norms is important, I also think we have to balance what we change and what everyone else should accept as part of us. Walking upright without rocking should give a good impression. Anyone who is expressionless and hunched over does not look approachable. But, if we have balance deficits, we can only change so much. I can walk faster and even look around since I have some vision on flat surfaces, but I often still get grabbed as they say the elevator is that way and I'm heading for the steps, or people come up and want to help me. So my point is, I did my part to learn my way around and felt comfortable walking to building x, but people still see a cane and think "she must need help." Regions also vary. So your idea of moving to another location is a good one, but with finances, realistically this is not usually feasible. Also, we should remember that some sighted people are fancy dressers and always want the latest clothes fashion. But others are not. Finding a group of friends with similar interests that won't put so much pressure on appearance is a good idea. Some people are laid back and dress nicely, but more plainly. Great ideas here. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 5:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Hi all, Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the things your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is totally unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing your love life or with playing princess games when you were little and those things don't even have anything to do with your being blind. If you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help you cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still affecting you today. Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you will end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you have learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear that you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I hope that you will get to know some other blind people a little better so that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives near you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are the best defense against the kinds of negative messages about blindness and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. The best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy doing, is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of people who don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in blind people. Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a lot about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around us. While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, it doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being accepted is to move to a different community or a different situation whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might mean moving to a place that has better public transportation so that the fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as much. Or, it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted women around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen years my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even requiring) me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear makeup. I also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. There were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was required to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to be accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that it wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few weeks later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided that all sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth my time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I started letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and spent all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know at the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once I grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a few sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the facials and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really didn't belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was also about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be accepted without having to change much of who I am. I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might be happier in a different environment--a different part of the country, attending college or volunteering with peers who share our interests, or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually believe that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. The family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the house is far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have the means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step toward building a life of your own design. I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility as far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen and cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for clubs to join with people in them who share your interests and views. And I would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know blind people, both those your age and those who are older who can mentor you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but you may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted people. Best, Arielle On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a > topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture > since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > >> I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is working >> on >> that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your posture is >> another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in yoga. >> Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving range of >> motion >> so you can learn how to move and change your posture. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM >> To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting a >> massage >> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyats.. could help ocial gatherings >> >> Arielle, >> I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. >> I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. >> We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to feel that >> every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social gatherings, >> particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. >> >> If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, modeling, >> and >> >> question and answer. People could even submit questions anonymously for >> the >> discussion part. >> What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad feels that >> blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove each >> other >> >> aside, and sadly this is partly true. >> Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being courteous and >> blending in. >> You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics like >> manners, what to do when you greet a new person, >> how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing tips, >> nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of fidgiting. >> Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of fidgiting >> or >> self stimulation that are. >> >> We want to come across as approachable and nice people. Nonverbal >> communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a chronic >> issue, >> >> one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying >> coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a physical >> theripist >> if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having correct >> posture. >> >> My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have visual >> stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent over at >> the >> shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is that blind >> kids >> >> were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, this >> affects >> >> posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles can >> shorten, >> >> lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. >> >> I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye contact. I >> have >> >> some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start their >> nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing is my >> parents >> >> tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but its >> simply >> that I'm looking around to see what I can. >> Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks worked on >> that >> as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for balance >> probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me to stop >> rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not realize I'm >> doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do it. But >> I >> >> won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think about >> rather >> >> than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and is my >> head >> >> still. >> >> >> I think its important for us to find out about norms and find out where >> to >> >> find such information. The seminar should include that. Online resources >> about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people around us is >> >> another, and >> finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are existing >> videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. Maybe AFB >> or >> APH would have something, or maybe a video with good descriptions exists >> for >> >> the general audience. I don't know. >> >> Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn gestures. >> Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher to teach >> me >> >> this. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" >> is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, >> attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no >> religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, >> customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many >> subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not >> killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to >> dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ >> between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture >> (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in >> Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers >> etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of >> nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that >> blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make >> informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, >> just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work >> even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there >> are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody >> else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or >> "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need >> to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific >> situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is >> probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am >> doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably >> get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most >> of the other people there are wearing suits. >> I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how >> they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, >> i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read >> about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for >> students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to >> blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that >> preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does >> much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and >> again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to >> these decisions for ourselves. >> Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks >> who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted >> alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need >> to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social >> makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings >> with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I >> always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of >> the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I >> spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, >> struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with >> lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye >> contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than >> the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate >> student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. >> In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in >> and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to >> me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I >> have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and >> balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was >> learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination >> impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the >> fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face >> when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up >> toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes >> a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end >> up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have >> been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye >> contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or >> mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition >> practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in >> their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like >> these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or >> being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all >> members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, >> even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we >> should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as >> examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that >> made some sense. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Sat Sep 15 21:49:20 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:49:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <5050A31C.2070003@tysdomain.com> <5053E054.8000108@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <988A0711-27D0-473E-A118-C6920D1F50AE@gmail.com> Apologies, Arielle, if you meant what I'm about to say, but if you meant what you wrote, then you may be pleasantly surprised. Arielle wrote, > You can drag your finger around the screen until VoiceOver says what you need, and then touch > the screen with a second finger (a "split tap") or tap your finger > twice quickly on the button to select it ("double-tap"). The description of the split tap is fine, but you do not need to double tap on the button. Once you bring focus to the desired element by flicking or dragging your finger over it, you can double tap anywhere on the screen. This is easier because you don't have to worry if your finger moves off the desired element slightly. Arielle wrote, > You can also flick the right-hand side of the screen to move the cursor from one > screen element to the next. I may be interpreting too literally here, but you can do the flicking anywhere on the screen, not only on the right hand side. What matters is the direction of the flick, right to left, left to right, up to down, down to up. You can do any of these flicks anywhere on the screen and it will have the same effect. I've convinced at least half a dozen people with varying degrees of tech savviness to pick up iPhones, and none have regretted it so far. The touch screen only seems much more daunting than it actually is. Best, Marc On 2012-09-15, at 2:10 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Ashley, > The iPhone screen reader, VoiceOver, helps with touch-screen > navigation by voicing every button you touch. You can drag your finger > around the screen until VoiceOver says what you need, and then touch > the screen with a second finger (a "split tap") or tap your finger > twice quickly on the button to select it ("double-tap"). You can also > flick the right-hand side of the screen to move the cursor from one > screen element to the next. Once you have used the phone for a while, > you will remember where many things are on the screen; for example, > when I am on the home screen, "Phone" is in the lower left and > "Messages" (for texting) is on the upper left. > HTH, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> My phone reads all settings >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 14, 2012, at 21:56, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>> There were tons of menus that the ENV3 didn't read. It read contacts I >>> think, but messages, a lot of the settings etc it wouldn't read. There was >>> also no way to find out who texted you if you happened to miss the text. >>> On 9/14/2012 7:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Tyler, >>>> Oh, that is why the haven isn't completely accessible. >>>> I know people who used the en V 3 and it seemed accessible. It would even >>>> read you text messages and allow the user to text and read the menus so >>>> you knew the missed calls. >>>> Unfortunately, the EN V 3 is not produced anymore; I wanted to buy one >>>> last time I needed a phone, and learned it was not produced. >>>> >>>> I heard the haven isn't made anymore either. But if it is, gloria might >>>> want to explore that option. >>>> If you just need to make calls, you do not need all the menus read. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> I know the Haven is, and I think that might be. But it's not really >>>> "accessible." it reads the messages if you hit space, and it reads the >>>> fact that you got a message as well as minimal prompts, but it doesn't >>>> read much of anything else. I had an ENV3 for a while, and it worked the >>>> same way. >>>> On 9/12/2012 7:58 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >>>>> is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I >>>>> have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 21:51:46 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 17:51:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Desiree, That's too bad. I wonder what sort of basis your parents had to tell you such things. It sounds like they did not know successful blind people. It sounds like they did not support you in your quest to grow. Those are really put downs-- to tell someone they will grow up to be worthless. As for fat, that does have an element of truth. Most blind people I encounter are physically inactive and yes are overweight. Its harder for us to be active as we need a partner to run or bike outside. Fitness machines are getting fancier with screens to set up the equipment. You have to memorize what button does what to operate those lovely cardio machines. Anyway, on the subject of self esteem and being worth something, you have to find your niche and be around people. Social skills develop via experience. I still haven't figured out how to join an existing conversation without cutting someone else off. I can better join a conversation of two people; any more than that, its hard to jump in it. You can definitely grow up to be worth something. Following norms is just one part of fitting in. Other factors include having something to give in the friendship, being a pleasant person and living in a place where you can travel around. Arielle already mentioned that one. One more thing is that I think we need to create opportunities for ourselves to use our abilities and show the community what we can do. So joining a non blindness club or volunteering with an organization you like will help out a lot. You will be more well rounded then and get experience while increasing self esteem. Take care. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Hi Arielle, Yes, you certainly made a lot of sense to me. What we all should be taking away from your message is that none of us has the right to pass judgment on another just because we should feel that someone else, whether we know them in real life or not, is making the so-called "blind community" look bad. yes, I put that in quotes, because you know what? I don't believe it exists. We are all individuals who are perhaps bonded by the common trait of seeing less than those in society who are deemed to see more than us. But again, seeing is relative. Some supposedly sighted people are shallow, while blind" people can be wise, deep, meaningful or any other emotional adjective you can apply to soul searching, if you will. So, sighted people see the physical world in which they live every day, and of course many of them can be good people, just as blind people can be, well, shallow and uninformed. But that's the beauty of it: just because we have nonfunctional eyes, or eyes that maybe don't work as well as others, doesn't mean we should be treated as second class citizens, nor should we criticize others for what they lack. I can think of many things I lack, or lacked in the past tense, but would have been considered normal for everyone to know at the time, and I had to hide for fear of what people would think of me if I revealed what I didn't know. When I was growing up, I longed to know someone who wouldn't judge me. I wanted more than anything to not be put down for things i didn't know. I wished my parents didn't say things about how I would grow up to be fat and worthless like most other blind people. I wish that people hadn't given up on me before I even knew what I was capable of, because as a result of that, I have no clue what I'm capable of now. I guess that's why I wish I could reach out to others who are in that position now, because I know how painful it is, and no, maybe I haven't fully gotten over my own past, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything. On 9/15/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 15 22:04:45 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:04:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <50542e13.aac4320a.5e61.11a9@mx.google.com> References: <50542e13.aac4320a.5e61.11a9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2A530A3B5FD44041BC217F84BB0E82BF@OwnerPC> Beth, I second Arielle's suggestion to get counseling. What happened to you was not acceptable. If you were engaging in imaginative play as a princess there is nothing wrong with that. Of course, all little girls pretend stuff. It is normal at that age to do such a thing in fact. I had lots of toys to play with, although I did not act as a princess. I played house and pretended to be a mother or an aunt. I also pretended to be a doctor with my play doctor's kit. I pretended to be many things. Your mom certainly did things wrong. I think its important to figure out what you want to do in life, go to school, and go for your goals. You can also work on other deficits if you want to. Surely, NFB training centers address social skills, manners, and blindisms. I sure hope so! You can also take other steps as Arielle mentioned to mitigate those social factors. I know you mentioned problems with rehab before. If they give you problems, I'd get your state client assistance program involved. Also, turn to other resources such as charities for assistance. You said you won't take out student loans for religious reasons, but you can avail yourself of scholarships and grants. My point is that we can always improve and go forward. Its hard with low self esteem, but we should do what we can to create opportunities for ourselves. Perhaps volunteering in your community will help you feel better. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Gee, Thanks, Ashley. I never knew I could overcome these things by hindsight. Also, I am not sure of why things happened, but whatever. I can do anything if I set my mind to it, but social norms to me are too much for girls. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place to live, a job, etc. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505507a4.8759320a.70ba.4798@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Beth, Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't want to get too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and don't hesitate to use them. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place to live, a job, etc. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0E740F24214146819B905219617442FE@OwnerPC> Beth, Yes some of them have drinks. That is a tough situation with rising grocery prices and reduced food stamps. I don't know why they'd reduce food stamps in this climate with inflation. I know there's more to the story wich is too personal. You could probably get assistance from some nonprofit or mosque. Maybe nfb members in your area would loan you money if you were bold enough to ask them. Hope you can find a way to obtain necessities. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, some of them do. Call in advance to find out. Arielle On 9/15/12, Beth wrote: > Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't > afford it all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit > inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't > want to get > too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and > don't hesitate > to use them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in > withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and > therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such > fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for > trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows > and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT > one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have > counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to > be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, > and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human > services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place > to live, a job, etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the > things > your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and > conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is > totally > unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing > your > love life or with playing princess games when you were little and > those things don't even have anything to do with your being > blind. If > you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help > you > cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still > affecting you today. > Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you > will > end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These > statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't > possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you > have > learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can > accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear > that > you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I > hope > that you will get to know some other blind people a little better > so > that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are > capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB > function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives > near > you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are > the > best defense against the kinds of negative messages about > blindness > and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. > The > best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy > doing, > is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your > beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of > people who > don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in > blind > people. > Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a > lot > about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around > us. > While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, > it > doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being > accepted is to move to a different community or a different > situation > whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean > spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might > mean > moving to a place that has better public transportation so that > the > fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as > much. Or, > it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual > abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. > I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted > women > around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen > years > my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even > requiring) > me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear > makeup. I > also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several > medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. > There > were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was > required > to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to > attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to > be > accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that > it > wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and > enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few > weeks > later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother > micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided > that all > sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth > my > time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I > started > letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and > spent > all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know > at > the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow > really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once > I > grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a > few > sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the > facials > and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really > didn't > belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it > (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was > also > about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be > accepted without having to change much of who I am. > I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might > be > happier in a different environment--a different part of the > country, > attending college or volunteering with peers who share our > interests, > or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually > believe > that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind > adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. > The > family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind > adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still > over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the > house is > far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build > blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have > the > means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step > toward > building a life of your own design. > I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility > as > far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen > and > cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for > clubs > to join with people in them who share your interests and views. > And I > would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know > blind > people, both those your age and those who are older who can > mentor > you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but > you > may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by > blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted > people. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is > on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of > this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back > pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many > back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad > posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, > Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is > working > on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your > posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in > yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving > range of > motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting > a > massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to > feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social > gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, > modeling, and > > question and answer. People could even submit questions > anonymously for > the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad > feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove > each other > > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being > courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics > like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing > tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of > fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of > fidgiting > or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. > Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a > chronic issue, > > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a > physical > theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having > correct > posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have > visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent > over at > the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is > that blind > kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, > this affects > > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles > can shorten, > > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye > contact. I have > > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start > their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing > is my > parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but > its > simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks > worked on > that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for > balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me > to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not > realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do > it. But I > > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think > about > rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and > is my head > > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find > out where to > > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online > resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people > around us is > > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are > existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. > Maybe AFB > or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good > descriptions exists > for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn > gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher > to teach > me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a > culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I > believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or > to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, > if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how > to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, > we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood > subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that > group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more > "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of > blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture > and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I > was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at > someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to > offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and > we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sat Sep 15 23:34:14 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 18:34:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society at social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well, there are plenty of places where you can do a free list, googlegroups.com, yahoogroups.com, freelists.org etc. Nothing is stopping you. Dave At 11:29 PM 9/14/2012, you wrote: >And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending >people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or >ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter >their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit >in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether >they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to >follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone >what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated >like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and >the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as >crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our >hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone >actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > > me because it just does for some reason. > > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > > wife. You will be poor." No way. > > Beth > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted societyat social gatherings > > > > Chris wrote, > > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > > self-loathing, and anguish. > > > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > > interested. > > > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > > way to act. > > > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > > how to look and act like sighted people. > > > > Regards, > > > > Marc > > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > > wrote: > > > > Hi Brandon and all, > > > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > > message. > > > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > > a future NABS membership call. > > > > Just my thoughts, > > > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hello, > > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > > sex. There is > > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > > some > > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > > :) > > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > > sighted > > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > > blind > > community. > > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > > not) have > > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > > against the grain > > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > > suggested that > > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > > world thinks. > > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > > looks at a > > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > > or a > > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > > him and when > > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > > really weird and > > she turns around and walks a mile away. > > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > > both sexual > > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > > of attention > > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > > aren't meant > > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > > would greatly > > improve convention. > > Thank you, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arielle Silverman > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hi all, > > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > > Whozit > > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > > some > > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > > NABS > > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > > among > > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > > position, > > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > > extension, an > > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > > or > > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > > diversity > > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > > available > > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > > fact, > > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > > about > > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > > Arielle > > > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > > wrote: > > Hello, > > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > > never > > seen > > > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > > having to > > be > > > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > > condoms in > > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > > browsing... > > Condoms, > > > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > > probably need > > to > > > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > > a condom > > or > > > > use a dental dam. > > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > > packing > > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > > for one > > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > > that sell > > hot > > > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > > buy a box > > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > > (Then of > > course > > > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > > bring > > their > > > > own utensil's). > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anmol Bhatia > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > > convention... > > > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > > braille > > them > > > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > > > Anmol > > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > > Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > > like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > > wrote: > > > > From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > , "National Association of Blind Students > > mailing > > list" > > > > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > > Hi, Brandon, > > > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > > knows that site is trust worthy. > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > > presume? > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > > the experience is often not pleasant. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > > Silverman > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hi all, > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > > are kind of in a > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > > for this list, since > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > > unique to blindness. > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > > too far afield, I > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > > also think that > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > > legitimate one and > > that there might be other blind people out here, > > including teenagers, > > who have similar concerns about how to get > > condoms, birth control or > > sexual health information without a lot of > > awkwardness or > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > > you have to depend > > on someone else (especially parents) for > > transportation which can make > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > > including > > www.condomania.com > > www.undercovercondoms.com > > and > > www.condomdepot.com > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > > choices at > > www.amazon.com > > If you go to your health center on campus for any > > reason, it shouldn't > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > > about condoms. > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > > having sex with a > > partner because that is a highly individual > > decision. However, I feel > > it important that anyone who is considering having > > sex for the first > > time ensure you understand what all of your > > options are for preventing > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > > advantages and > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > > to use condoms and > > birth control. There are a couple different > > websites with this kind > > of information: > > www.plannedparenthood.org > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > > or > > www.scarleteen.com > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > > the moment because my > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > > pregnancy at a very > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > > guy she had only > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > > birth control pills, > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > > don't believe that > > sex should be feared, it is something that > > takes some responsibility, > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > > while minimizing the > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > > there are other ways > > to be physically intimate with someone that are > > less risky, which > > these online forums will talk about. > > I also want to bring up an issue that is > > somewhat relevant to sexual > > health, which I experienced and I think that some > > of you might also be > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > > parents drive you to > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > > sit in or even > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > > college in my home > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > > doctors' appointments > > and would then want to come in and chat with the > > doctor while he/she > > was examining me. This was partly because my > > parents and I saw many of > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > > good opportunity to > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > > health while she was > > there, or because she was curious to see what the > > doctor recommended > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > > realized that while it > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > > privacy as an adult > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > > room while I was seeing > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > > until I was 21 and in > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > > By the time you are 18, > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > > you have a right to > > privacy of your medical information and it is > > important to establish a > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > > person interfering. > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > > health and by the time > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > > discussing your sexual > > activities or questions with your doctors without > > your parents being > > around. You might also want to consider getting a > > driver or even > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > > this problem. > > On a related note, by the time you are in high > > school, you should know > > the names of all medications you take on a > > regular basis and any > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > > ever have to go to the > > emergency room, this kind of information may > > be requested of you. > > Best, > > Arielle From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 15 23:41:55 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:41:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society at social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good point! Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "David Andrews" wrote: > Well, there are plenty of places where you can do a free list, googlegroups.com, yahoogroups.com, freelists.org etc. > > Nothing is stopping you. > > Dave > > At 11:29 PM 9/14/2012, you wrote: >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> > me because it just does for some reason. >> > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> > wife. You will be poor." No way. >> > Beth >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Marc Workman > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > > > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> > sighted societyat social gatherings >> > >> > Chris wrote, >> > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> > >> > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> > self-loathing, and anguish. >> > >> > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> > interested. >> > >> > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> > >> > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> > way to act. >> > >> > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> > how to look and act like sighted people. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Marc >> > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi Brandon and all, >> > >> > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> > message. >> > >> > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> > a future NABS membership call. >> > >> > Just my thoughts, >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > > > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > >> > Hello, >> > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> > sex. There is >> > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> > some >> > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> > :) >> > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> > sighted >> > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> > blind >> > community. >> > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> > not) have >> > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> > against the grain >> > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> > suggested that >> > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> > world thinks. >> > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> > looks at a >> > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> > or a >> > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> > him and when >> > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> > really weird and >> > she turns around and walks a mile away. >> > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> > both sexual >> > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> > of attention >> > among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> > aren't meant >> > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> > would greatly >> > improve convention. >> > Thank you, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Arielle Silverman >> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > >> > Hi all, >> > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> > Whozit >> > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> > some >> > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> > NABS >> > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> > among >> > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> > position, >> > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> > extension, an >> > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> > or >> > bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> > diversity >> > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> > available >> > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> > fact, >> > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> > about >> > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> > Arielle >> > >> > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> > wrote: >> > Hello, >> > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> > never >> > seen >> > >> > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> > having to >> > be >> > >> > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> > condoms in >> > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> > browsing... >> > Condoms, >> > >> > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> > probably need >> > to >> > >> > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> > a condom >> > or >> > >> > use a dental dam. >> > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> > packing >> > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> > for one >> > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> > that sell >> > hot >> > >> > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> > buy a box >> > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> > (Then of >> > course >> > >> > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> > bring >> > their >> > >> > own utensil's). >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Anmol Bhatia >> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > >> > >> > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> > convention... >> > >> > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> > braille >> > them >> > >> > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> > >> > Anmol >> > >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> > Perhaps >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> > like a breeze >> > among flowers. >> > Hellen Keller >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> > wrote: >> > >> > From: Carly Mihalakis > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > , "National Association of Blind Students >> > mailing >> > list" >> > >> > > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> > Hi, Brandon, >> > >> > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> > >> > Respectfully, >> > Jedi >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > Hello, >> > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> > knows that site is trust worthy. >> > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> > presume? >> > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> > the experience is often not pleasant. >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Brandon Keith Biggs >> > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> > Silverman >> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> > >> > Hi all, >> > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> > are kind of in a >> > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> > for this list, since >> > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> > unique to blindness. >> > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> > too far afield, I >> > will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> > also think that >> > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> > legitimate one and >> > that there might be other blind people out here, >> > including teenagers, >> > who have similar concerns about how to get >> > condoms, birth control or >> > sexual health information without a lot of >> > awkwardness or >> > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> > you have to depend >> > on someone else (especially parents) for >> > transportation which can make >> > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> > There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> > including >> > www.condomania.com >> > www.undercovercondoms.com >> > and >> > www.condomdepot.com >> > Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> > choices at >> > www.amazon.com >> > If you go to your health center on campus for any >> > reason, it shouldn't >> > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> > about condoms. >> > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> > having sex with a >> > partner because that is a highly individual >> > decision. However, I feel >> > it important that anyone who is considering having >> > sex for the first >> > time ensure you understand what all of your >> > options are for preventing >> > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> > advantages and >> > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> > to use condoms and >> > birth control. There are a couple different >> > websites with this kind >> > of information: >> > www.plannedparenthood.org >> > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> > or >> > www.scarleteen.com >> > This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> > the moment because my >> > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> > pregnancy at a very >> > inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> > guy she had only >> > known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> > birth control pills, >> > but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> > don't believe that >> > sex should be feared, it is something that >> > takes some responsibility, >> > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> > while minimizing the >> > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> > there are other ways >> > to be physically intimate with someone that are >> > less risky, which >> > these online forums will talk about. >> > I also want to bring up an issue that is >> > somewhat relevant to sexual >> > health, which I experienced and I think that some >> > of you might also be >> > struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> > parents drive you to >> > doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> > sit in or even >> > participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> > college in my home >> > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> > doctors' appointments >> > and would then want to come in and chat with the >> > doctor while he/she >> > was examining me. This was partly because my >> > parents and I saw many of >> > the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> > good opportunity to >> > ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> > health while she was >> > there, or because she was curious to see what the >> > doctor recommended >> > to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> > realized that while it >> > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> > privacy as an adult >> > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> > room while I was seeing >> > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> > until I was 21 and in >> > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> > By the time you are 18, >> > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> > you have a right to >> > privacy of your medical information and it is >> > important to establish a >> > good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> > person interfering. >> > This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> > health and by the time >> > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> > discussing your sexual >> > activities or questions with your doctors without >> > your parents being >> > around. You might also want to consider getting a >> > driver or even >> > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> > this problem. >> > On a related note, by the time you are in high >> > school, you should know >> > the names of all medications you take on a >> > regular basis and any >> > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> > ever have to go to the >> > emergency room, this kind of information may >> > be requested of you. >> > Best, >> > Arielle > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 15 23:44:23 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:44:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> Message-ID: What is your zip code? I can check to see what is in your area. Most major cities have a 311 or 211 information hotline open 24/7 for finding this information. You do not have to disclose who you are. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:22 PM, "Beth" wrote: > Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't want to get > too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and don't hesitate > to use them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in > withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and > therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such > fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for > trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows > and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT > one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have > counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to > be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, > and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human > services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place > to live, a job, etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the > things > your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and > conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is > totally > unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing > your > love life or with playing princess games when you were little and > those things don't even have anything to do with your being > blind. If > you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help > you > cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still > affecting you today. > Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you > will > end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These > statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't > possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you > have > learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can > accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear > that > you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I > hope > that you will get to know some other blind people a little better > so > that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are > capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB > function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives > near > you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are > the > best defense against the kinds of negative messages about > blindness > and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. > The > best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy > doing, > is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your > beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of > people who > don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in > blind > people. > Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a > lot > about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around > us. > While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, > it > doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being > accepted is to move to a different community or a different > situation > whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean > spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might > mean > moving to a place that has better public transportation so that > the > fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as > much. Or, > it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual > abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. > I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted > women > around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen > years > my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even > requiring) > me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear > makeup. I > also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several > medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. > There > were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was > required > to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to > attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to > be > accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that > it > wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and > enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few > weeks > later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother > micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided > that all > sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth > my > time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I > started > letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and > spent > all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know > at > the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow > really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once > I > grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a > few > sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the > facials > and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really > didn't > belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it > (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was > also > about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be > accepted without having to change much of who I am. > I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might > be > happier in a different environment--a different part of the > country, > attending college or volunteering with peers who share our > interests, > or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually > believe > that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind > adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. > The > family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind > adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still > over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the > house is > far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build > blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have > the > means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step > toward > building a life of your own design. > I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility > as > far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen > and > cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for > clubs > to join with people in them who share your interests and views. > And I > would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know > blind > people, both those your age and those who are older who can > mentor > you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but > you > may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by > blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted > people. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is > on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of > this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back > pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many > back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad > posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, > Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is > working > on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your > posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in > yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving > range of > motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting > a > massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to > feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social > gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, > modeling, and > > question and answer. People could even submit questions > anonymously for > the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad > feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove > each other > > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being > courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics > like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing > tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of > fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of > fidgiting > or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. > Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a > chronic issue, > > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a > physical > theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having > correct > posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have > visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent > over at > the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is > that blind > kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, > this affects > > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles > can shorten, > > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye > contact. I have > > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start > their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing > is my > parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but > its > simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks > worked on > that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for > balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me > to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not > realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do > it. But I > > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think > about > rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and > is my head > > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find > out where to > > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online > resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people > around us is > > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are > existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. > Maybe AFB > or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good > descriptions exists > for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn > gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher > to teach > me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a > culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I > believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or > to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, > if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how > to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, > we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood > subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that > group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more > "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of > blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture > and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I > was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at > someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to > offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and > we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Sat Sep 15 23:46:47 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:46:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <0E740F24214146819B905219617442FE@OwnerPC> References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> <0E740F24214146819B905219617442FE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Call me, since I may be able to help you with your food stamp issue. There are other deductions (medical)(and other) that most case workers do not let you know about. (631)804-1609 I bring this up since someone in the thread was discussing food stamps and wrote to you, Beth. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:31 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Beth, > Yes some of them have drinks. That is a tough situation with rising grocery prices and reduced food stamps. > I don't know why they'd reduce food stamps in this climate with inflation. I know there's more to the story wich is too personal. > You could probably get assistance from some nonprofit or mosque. Maybe nfb members in your area would loan you money if you were bold enough to ask them. > > Hope you can find a way to obtain necessities. > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't > afford it all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit > inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't > want to get > too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and > don't hesitate > to use them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in > withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and > therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such > fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for > trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows > and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT > one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have > counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to > be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, > and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human > services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place > to live, a job, etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the > things > your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and > conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is > totally > unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing > your > love life or with playing princess games when you were little and > those things don't even have anything to do with your being > blind. If > you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help > you > cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still > affecting you today. > Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you > will > end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These > statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't > possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you > have > learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can > accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear > that > you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I > hope > that you will get to know some other blind people a little better > so > that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are > capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB > function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives > near > you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are > the > best defense against the kinds of negative messages about > blindness > and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. > The > best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy > doing, > is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your > beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of > people who > don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in > blind > people. > Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a > lot > about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around > us. > While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, > it > doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being > accepted is to move to a different community or a different > situation > whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean > spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might > mean > moving to a place that has better public transportation so that > the > fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as > much. Or, > it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual > abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. > I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted > women > around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen > years > my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even > requiring) > me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear > makeup. I > also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several > medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. > There > were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was > required > to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to > attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to > be > accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that > it > wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and > enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few > weeks > later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother > micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided > that all > sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth > my > time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I > started > letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and > spent > all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know > at > the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow > really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once > I > grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a > few > sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the > facials > and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really > didn't > belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it > (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was > also > about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be > accepted without having to change much of who I am. > I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might > be > happier in a different environment--a different part of the > country, > attending college or volunteering with peers who share our > interests, > or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually > believe > that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind > adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. > The > family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind > adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still > over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the > house is > far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build > blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have > the > means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step > toward > building a life of your own design. > I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility > as > far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen > and > cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for > clubs > to join with people in them who share your interests and views. > And I > would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know > blind > people, both those your age and those who are older who can > mentor > you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but > you > may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by > blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted > people. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is > on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of > this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back > pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many > back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad > posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, > Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is > working > on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your > posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in > yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving > range of > motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting > a > massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to > feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social > gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, > modeling, and > > question and answer. People could even submit questions > anonymously for > the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad > feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove > each other > > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being > courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics > like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing > tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of > fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of > fidgiting > or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. > Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a > chronic issue, > > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a > physical > theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having > correct > posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have > visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent > over at > the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is > that blind > kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, > this affects > > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles > can shorten, > > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye > contact. I have > > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start > their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing > is my > parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but > its > simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks > worked on > that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for > balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me > to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not > realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do > it. But I > > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think > about > rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and > is my head > > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find > out where to > > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online > resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people > around us is > > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are > existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. > Maybe AFB > or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good > descriptions exists > for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn > gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher > to teach > me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a > culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I > believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or > to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, > if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how > to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, > we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood > subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that > group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more > "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of > blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture > and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I > was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at > someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to > offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and > we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 00:12:39 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:12:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Christine Ha crowned Master Chef Message-ID: <5055198f.4611e00a.0ae8.ffffd985@mx.google.com> Absolutely! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ah, that's right; I should have thought of that. Beth, these info hotlines are quite useful! You could give your zip code to him off list if you want to. -----Original Message----- From: wmodnl wmodnl Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings What is your zip code? I can check to see what is in your area. Most major cities have a 311 or 211 information hotline open 24/7 for finding this information. You do not have to disclose who you are. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:22 PM, "Beth" wrote: > Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it > all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit > inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't want to > get > too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and don't > hesitate > to use them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in > withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and > therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such > fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for > trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows > and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT > one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have > counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to > be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, > and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human > services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place > to live, a job, etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the > things > your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and > conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is > totally > unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing > your > love life or with playing princess games when you were little and > those things don't even have anything to do with your being > blind. If > you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help > you > cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still > affecting you today. > Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you > will > end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These > statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't > possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you > have > learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can > accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear > that > you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I > hope > that you will get to know some other blind people a little better > so > that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are > capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB > function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives > near > you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are > the > best defense against the kinds of negative messages about > blindness > and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. > The > best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy > doing, > is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your > beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of > people who > don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in > blind > people. > Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a > lot > about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around > us. > While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, > it > doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being > accepted is to move to a different community or a different > situation > whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean > spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might > mean > moving to a place that has better public transportation so that > the > fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as > much. Or, > it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual > abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. > I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted > women > around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen > years > my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even > requiring) > me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear > makeup. I > also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several > medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. > There > were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was > required > to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to > attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to > be > accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that > it > wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and > enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few > weeks > later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother > micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided > that all > sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth > my > time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I > started > letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and > spent > all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know > at > the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow > really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once > I > grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a > few > sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the > facials > and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really > didn't > belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it > (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was > also > about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be > accepted without having to change much of who I am. > I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might > be > happier in a different environment--a different part of the > country, > attending college or volunteering with peers who share our > interests, > or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually > believe > that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind > adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. > The > family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind > adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still > over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the > house is > far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build > blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have > the > means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step > toward > building a life of your own design. > I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility > as > far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen > and > cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for > clubs > to join with people in them who share your interests and views. > And I > would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know > blind > people, both those your age and those who are older who can > mentor > you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but > you > may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by > blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted > people. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is > on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of > this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back > pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many > back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad > posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, > Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is > working > on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your > posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in > yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving > range of > motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting > a > massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to > feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social > gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, > modeling, and > > question and answer. People could even submit questions > anonymously for > the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad > feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove > each other > > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being > courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics > like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing > tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of > fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of > fidgiting > or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. > Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a > chronic issue, > > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a > physical > theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having > correct > posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have > visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent > over at > the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is > that blind > kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, > this affects > > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles > can shorten, > > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye > contact. I have > > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start > their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing > is my > parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but > its > simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks > worked on > that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for > balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me > to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not > realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do > it. But I > > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think > about > rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and > is my head > > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find > out where to > > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online > resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people > around us is > > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are > existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. > Maybe AFB > or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good > descriptions exists > for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn > gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher > to teach > me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a > culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I > believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or > to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, > if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how > to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, > we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood > subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that > group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more > "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of > blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture > and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I > was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at > someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to > offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and > we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 02:24:09 2012 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 22:24:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Course Smart question Message-ID: Hi all, My university has just recommended that I get a couple of my books from course smart to save them and myself time in terms of scanning. However, I have heard that this service is not accessible with jaws. Is this true? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Minh -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 04:05:30 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 21:05:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Student with a website accessibility survey interested in subjects Message-ID: I received the following message on the NFB of Washington mailing list. It did not appear that Wanda, the surveyer, CCed any of thest lists, so I thought I would forward this survey, because I know that website accessibility is something that concerns all of us. So if you have the time and interest, please answer her questions and email them to the address provided. Thanks. Cindy Hello. Thank you in advance for taking the time to complete my survey. All answers will remain confidential. This survey is primarily for a school project that I am working on, but I am anticipating creating a website in the coming year and I am very interested in making it very user-friendly to blind/visually impaired computer users. Please feel free to forward this to anyone that you think would be interested in helping guide me in creating an accessible web site and completing the survey. SURVEY 1. When surfing the Internet, what elements on web-sites hamper and delay you the most? 2. When surfing the Internet, what web-site situations cause you the most anguish and frustration? 3. Please name your three favorite and most accessible websites to visit? A. B. C. 4. What do you like most about each of these websites? A. B. C. 5. What do you like least about each of these websites? A. B. C. 6. From which website do you find it the easiest to purchase an item? 7. From this same website, do you find difficulty with any parts of the transaction or browsing experience? 8. Do you have a Pay Pal account? 9. Do you use Pay Pal to make purchases? 10. Name an item or items that you have been unsuccessful in locating on the web. 11. What is the last item you have purchased on the Internet? 12. Would you be interested in being contacted for further questions or in beta testing a website? Please send all survey responses to Wanda Johnson at wanda.johnson at g.austinacc.edu . Have a terrific week. Thanks again. Wanda -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bre.brown24 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 05:07:51 2012 From: bre.brown24 at gmail.com (Bre Brown) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 23:07:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Course Smart question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, I bought three of my textbooks from course smart this semester. All you have to do is call them and have them turn on the accessibility feature for your account. Once it is turned on, you can navigate your books. You do not have to call for each purchase you make. I have been pretty satisfied with my service thus far. Thanks Bre On 9/15/12, minh ha wrote: > Hi all, > > My university has just recommended that I get a couple of my books > from course smart to save them and myself time in terms of scanning. > However, I have heard that this service is not accessible with jaws. > Is this true? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > Minh > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com > From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 06:52:00 2012 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 02:52:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Course Smart question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Bre. So I gather that you access the textbooks via the website and not as downloadable documents? Cheers Minh On 9/16/12, Bre Brown wrote: > Hello, > > I bought three of my textbooks from course smart this semester. All > you have to do is call them and have them turn on the accessibility > feature for your account. Once it is turned on, you can navigate your > books. You do not have to call for each purchase you make. I have been > pretty satisfied with my service thus far. > > Thanks > Bre > > On 9/15/12, minh ha wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> My university has just recommended that I get a couple of my books >> from course smart to save them and myself time in terms of scanning. >> However, I have heard that this service is not accessible with jaws. >> Is this true? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Thanks >> Minh >> >> >> -- >> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com > -- "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence From bre.brown24 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 10:35:31 2012 From: bre.brown24 at gmail.com (Bre Brown) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 04:35:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Course Smart question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, that is correct. Bre On 9/16/12, minh ha wrote: > Thanks Bre. So I gather that you access the textbooks via the website > and not as downloadable documents? > Cheers > Minh > > > On 9/16/12, Bre Brown wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I bought three of my textbooks from course smart this semester. All >> you have to do is call them and have them turn on the accessibility >> feature for your account. Once it is turned on, you can navigate your >> books. You do not have to call for each purchase you make. I have been >> pretty satisfied with my service thus far. >> >> Thanks >> Bre >> >> On 9/15/12, minh ha wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> My university has just recommended that I get a couple of my books >>> from course smart to save them and myself time in terms of scanning. >>> However, I have heard that this service is not accessible with jaws. >>> Is this true? Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Minh >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty >>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: >>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on >>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty > recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: > but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on > their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com > From gera1027 at gmail.com Sun Sep 16 17:06:47 2012 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:06:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! Message-ID: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> Hi listers: I'm Gerardo from Tampico in Mexico. Though I'm not a student, (I've got a psychology major and am nearly 35 years old) I feel I can help and give ideas/suggestions on my days as a student. Also hope to recall those good times when I'd have to get up early, get home and do homework etc etc. Thanks for letting me in. Gerardo From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 01:40:45 2012 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:40:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I usually don't chip in alot on the list, but I saw this thread and couldn't help. First, let me apologize in advance if I echo to closely the thoughts of somebody else. HOnestly, I am getting to this Sunday night and there's a tun of responses, and due to time I haven't read them all. /smiles/ Quite honestly, more than learning how to conform to sighted society, or learning whether or not I should be concerned with others opinion of me, or trying to figure out whether it's even worth me trying to fit in. I really wish that there could be a help line or something, where there were people we could talk too about stuff like this. I wish there was somewhere safe that we could discuss the various situations that we find ourselves in that present awkwardly to us, or present challenges for us we could get imput/help/advice from others. I've always found it hard to find a good person who could be a sounding board for me, because either they don't understand what the problem is, or people don't understand where I'm coming from. I think if we as a group, or members of our group, should do anything that it would be to provide a safe place people can go to talk it out. I even wish there was a councilor available who understood the struggles we face who could help or whatever. anyways, just my thoughts Laurel On 9/15/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Ah, that's right; I should have thought of that. Beth, these info hotlines > > are quite useful! > You could give your zip code to him off list if you want to. > > -----Original Message----- > From: wmodnl wmodnl > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfit > inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > What is your zip code? I can check to see what is in your area. > Most major cities have a 311 or 211 information hotline open 24/7 for > finding this information. You do not have to disclose who you are. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 7:22 PM, "Beth" wrote: > >> Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it >> >> all. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit >> inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Beth, >> Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't want to >> get >> too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and don't >> hesitate >> to use them. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Beth >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in >> withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and >> therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such >> fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for >> trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows >> and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT >> one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have >> counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to >> be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, >> and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human >> services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place >> to live, a job, etc. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the >> things >> your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and >> conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is >> totally >> unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing >> your >> love life or with playing princess games when you were little and >> those things don't even have anything to do with your being >> blind. If >> you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help >> you >> cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still >> affecting you today. >> Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you >> will >> end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These >> statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't >> possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you >> have >> learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can >> accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear >> that >> you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I >> hope >> that you will get to know some other blind people a little better >> so >> that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are >> capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB >> function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives >> near >> you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are >> the >> best defense against the kinds of negative messages about >> blindness >> and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. >> The >> best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy >> doing, >> is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your >> beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of >> people who >> don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in >> blind >> people. >> Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a >> lot >> about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around >> us. >> While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, >> it >> doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being >> accepted is to move to a different community or a different >> situation >> whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean >> spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might >> mean >> moving to a place that has better public transportation so that >> the >> fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as >> much. Or, >> it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual >> abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. >> I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted >> women >> around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen >> years >> my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even >> requiring) >> me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear >> makeup. I >> also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several >> medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. >> There >> were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was >> required >> to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to >> attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to >> be >> accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that >> it >> wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and >> enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few >> weeks >> later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother >> micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided >> that all >> sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth >> my >> time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I >> started >> letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and >> spent >> all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know >> at >> the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow >> really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once >> I >> grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a >> few >> sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the >> facials >> and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really >> didn't >> belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it >> (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was >> also >> about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be >> accepted without having to change much of who I am. >> I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might >> be >> happier in a different environment--a different part of the >> country, >> attending college or volunteering with peers who share our >> interests, >> or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually >> believe >> that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind >> adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. >> The >> family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind >> adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still >> over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the >> house is >> far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build >> blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have >> the >> means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step >> toward >> building a life of your own design. >> I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility >> as >> far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen >> and >> cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for >> clubs >> to join with people in them who share your interests and views. >> And I >> would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know >> blind >> people, both those your age and those who are older who can >> mentor >> you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but >> you >> may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by >> blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted >> people. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: >> Good morning all, >> My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is >> on a topic >> we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of >> this since >> posture is a issue for us as blind people. >> There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back >> pain. I bring >> this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many >> back >> conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad >> posture since >> I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. >> The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, >> Reky. >> Wright me off-list for more information. >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" >> > wrote: >> >> I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is >> working >> on >> that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your >> posture is >> another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in >> yoga. >> Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving >> range of >> motion >> so you can learn how to move and change your posture. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM >> To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting >> a >> massage >> Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyats.. could help ocial gatherings >> >> Arielle, >> I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. >> I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. >> We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to >> feel that >> every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social >> gatherings, >> particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. >> >> If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, >> modeling, and >> >> question and answer. People could even submit questions >> anonymously for >> the >> discussion part. >> What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad >> feels that >> blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove >> each other >> >> aside, and sadly this is partly true. >> Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being >> courteous and >> blending in. >> You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics >> like >> manners, what to do when you greet a new person, >> how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing >> tips, >> nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of >> fidgiting. >> Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of >> fidgiting >> or >> self stimulation that are. >> >> We want to come across as approachable and nice people. >> Nonverbal >> communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a >> chronic issue, >> >> one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying >> coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a >> physical >> theripist >> if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having >> correct >> posture. >> >> My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have >> visual >> stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent >> over at >> the >> shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is >> that blind >> kids >> >> were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, >> this affects >> >> posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles >> can shorten, >> >> lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. >> >> I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye >> contact. I have >> >> some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start >> their >> nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing >> is my >> parents >> >> tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but >> its >> simply >> that I'm looking around to see what I can. >> Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks >> worked on >> that >> as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for >> balance >> probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me >> to stop >> rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not >> realize I'm >> doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do >> it. But I >> >> won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think >> about >> rather >> >> than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and >> is my head >> >> still. >> >> >> I think its important for us to find out about norms and find >> out where to >> >> find such information. The seminar should include that. Online >> resources >> about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people >> around us is >> >> another, and >> finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are >> existing >> videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. >> Maybe AFB >> or >> APH would have something, or maybe a video with good >> descriptions exists >> for >> >> the general audience. I don't know. >> >> Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn >> gestures. >> Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher >> to teach >> me >> >> this. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted >> society" >> is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, >> attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no >> religious or political differences, no unique languages, >> cultures, >> customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many >> subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not >> killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs >> relating to >> dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ >> between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a >> culture >> (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in >> Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from >> lawyers >> etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of >> nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I >> believe that >> blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to >> make >> informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not >> follow, >> just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or >> to work >> even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, >> there >> are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like >> everybody >> else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, >> or >> "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we >> need >> to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for >> specific >> situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is >> probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, >> if I am >> doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can >> probably >> get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if >> most >> of the other people there are wearing suits. >> I do think it is useful to give blind students information about >> how >> they can learn about the norms present in their particular >> culture, >> i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to >> read >> about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum >> for >> students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how >> to >> blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that >> preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in >> does >> much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, >> and >> again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to >> come to >> these decisions for ourselves. >> Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind >> folks >> who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and >> sighted >> alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, >> we need >> to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social >> makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human >> beings >> with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I >> always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood >> subset of >> the blind community because in some ways I am part of that >> group. I >> spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, >> struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal >> with >> lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting >> eye >> contact. Because of these things some may say I look more >> "blind" than >> the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful >> graduate >> student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed >> relationship. >> In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of >> blending in >> and of how "different" I look at times, because this was >> emphasized to >> me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and >> I >> have still not determined if the problems I have with posture >> and >> balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I >> was >> learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination >> impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to >> the >> fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at >> someone's face >> when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look >> up >> toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it >> takes >> a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I >> end >> up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I >> have >> been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye >> contact. Some others in our community have additional >> disabilities or >> mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition >> practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to >> offer in >> their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits >> like >> these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any >> better or >> being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all >> members of our community have strengths and abilities of their >> own, >> even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and >> we >> should do what we can to empower these people instead of using >> them as >> examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope >> that >> made some sense. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink. >> net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 >> %40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm >> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 12:26:31 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:26:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria><001801cd9113$c8f2bd90$5ad838b0$@com><9AE38A9D45324730B0B247E03F885ADC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Is this a droid phone? Thanks it sounds great ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiffany miles" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > For those that would consider this product it is free on sprint boost and > version. It is called wireless accessability. The payed version is the > same > but it is called mobile accessability and it costs $99 I like this ap I > can > text make and receive calls it reads everything it is cool > On Sep 14, 2012 10:06 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Lavonya, >> Is your androyed a smart phone? What does it do besides make calls and >> connect to the internet? >> Thanks. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 4:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> I have a Samsung sidekick androyed. It works great. It reads everything >> to >> me. I am with t Mobil >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:24, "Chun Chao" wrote: >> >> Gloria: >>> >>> I am an Android user on T-mobile and I enjoy my phone as does anyone >>> independently. >>> The unfortunate thing is that my phone has become rather outdated within >>> a >>> matter of one year. >>> Anyways, I have the original Samsung Galaxy S running Android 2.36 >>> otherwise >>> known as gingerbread. >>> it was shortly after my getting the Galaxy S that the S2 came out and >>> then >>> the S3. >>> Both the S2 and S3 can run Android 4.0, but the S can only handle up to >>> Android 2.36. >>> >>> I use a combination of Talkback with Mobile Accessibility on my phone >>> and >>> I >>> am able to independently utilize my phone with little to no sighted >>> assistance; approximately 95% independence and 5% sighted assistance. >>> Also, I am not an Apple fan for reasons of my own as well as I prefer to >>> explore and search using hands-on experience rather than have a >>> out-of-the-box handed to me. >>> For more information, please email me off list to my email address and >>> we >>> can discuss the prospect further. >>> You can reach me at zerone1683 at gmail.com, no ads please. >>> >>> Regards, >>> C.C. Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org] >>> On Behalf >>> Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi Joshua, >>> Do you know anything about the talks or moble speak programs or know of >>> cites that talk about those programs? Thanks >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>> That's the only accessible one I know of. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:11 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> >>>> > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> ______________________________**__________ >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>> Gloria >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> jlester8462%40pcc >>>>> uaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>>> gloria.graves%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> jlester8462%40pccu >>>> aedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>>> gloria.graves%40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> zerone1683%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >>> hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/** >> qtiffany1%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From agrima at nbp.org Mon Sep 17 13:49:19 2012 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:49:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Book on common writing/spelling errors In-Reply-To: <001e01cd930a$3d90fac0$b8b2f040$@gmail.com> References: <001e01cd930a$3d90fac0$b8b2f040$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <009301cd94db$3d0a5b50$b71f11f0$@org> Hi all - thought I'd pass along this information on a book National Braille Press published over the summer (so some may have missed it). The book idea came about when we started chatting about the various homophone errors we see in our work-related emails. I thought this would be especially interesting to students and others who spend a good amount of time writing! Best, Tony Grima for National Braille Press A Writer's Companion: A Pocket Book of Homophones In braille and eBraille: $10.00 "Keep our Second Amendment: The Right to Bare Arms!" We notice quite a few interesting spelling errors on blogs, list servs, and emails from our customers - especially homophone errors (unrelated words that sound alike but are spelled differently). So we pulled together 400 commonly confused homophones for our favorite customers. Our Writer's Companion also contains a color chart, some helpful transitional phrases, like "which is to say...," and lots of other good stuff. We saved one email that didn't bother us at all: "NBP, I think you're grate!" Order at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/WRITERS.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 15:03:47 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:03:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? Message-ID: Hey guys, Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, blank, blank, blank, Other Link). Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it just me? What can I do about this? Wondering, Jewel From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 15:09:14 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:09:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! In-Reply-To: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> References: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Gerardo, Welcome to the list! Of course your input is welcome. Not everyone on this list is currently a student. My name is Jewel, and I'm a sophomore at Wake Technical Community College. Since I'm going thre-quarters-time, I have two more semesters after this one. My biggest challenge right now is Microbiology. I hope you enjoy the list! ~Jewel On 9/16/12, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Hi listers: I'm Gerardo from Tampico in Mexico. Though I'm not a student, > (I've got a psychology major and am nearly 35 years old) I feel I can help > and give ideas/suggestions on my days as a student. Also hope to recall > those good times when I'd have to get up early, get home and do homework > etc > etc. Thanks for letting me in. > > Gerardo > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 16:28:06 2012 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (nabs.president at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:28:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Winston-Salem Customer Service Representative In-Reply-To: <276FDAF0D7894242BA7A24CA3473365414FD4867@MS2.wsifb-domain.com> References: <276FDAF0D7894242BA7A24CA3473365414FD4867@MS2.wsifb-domain.com> Message-ID: <01ac01cd94f1$6bc3b6b0$434b2410$@gmail.com> Here is a job posting in NC, please share as appropriate. Thanks, Sean From: Erin Bridges [mailto:ebridges at wsifb.com] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:56 AM To: study at usc.edu; scott_blanks at lbcenter.org; caleb at lbcenter.org; llange at olmstedcenter.org; mmest at statlercenter.org; Felicia.patrick at dars.state.tx.us; Chris.fink at dars.state.tx.us; Jeanette.lee at dars.state.tx.us; Steven.moskowitz at dars.state.tx.us; Luis.chen at dars.state.tx.us; Ian.arscott at dars.state.tx.us; Sophia.strother at dars.state.tx.us; William.herzler at dars.state.tx.us; Ronald.clark at dars.state.tx.us; Roger.purdy at dars.state.tx.us; Carlos.garcia at dars.state.tx.us; Bobby.druesedow at dars.state.tx.us; Alissa.auer at dars.state.tx.us; Roberto.mejia at dars.state.tx.us; nabs.president at gmail.com; aziz.afravi at dars.state.tx.us; Bryan.baldwin at dars.state.tx.us; cass at utep.edu; collegium at hputx.edu; kpal at nib.org Subject: Winston-Salem Customer Service Representative Good Morning! We have another new opportunity in Winston-Salem, NC for a Customer Service Representative. This individual will work with the City of Winston-Salem's CitiLink program. Rate of pay is $11.52 per hour with an additional $3.50 per hour for health and welfare. No security clearance is required. Currently this position is reserved for people who are blind or visually impaired. For more information please contact Annette Clinard 336-245-5611 or Cindy Watson 336-245-5665. Erin Bridges Winston-Salem Industries for the Blind ebridges at wsifb.com 336-245-5617 Check out WSIFB Career Center for a list of our job postings! http://www.wsifb.com/career-center/job-postings.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Customer Service Representative City of Winston-Salem.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 13240 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ambradner at yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 18:24:42 2012 From: ambradner at yahoo.com (Ashley Bradner) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:24:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] using bookshare on a mac Message-ID: <7F0D6FFF-E0C6-4BDB-8D7D-9B98D54CBEA0@yahoo.com> Hi All, I am writing to ask if any of you are familiar with the bookshare software for the Mac. I have been using read2go for the iphone, but my books are so large that I'm having problems reading them using this method. I just recently got a macbook pro and am still learning to use it. I downloaded read out loud, but am having trouble using it since not everything is spoken, especially in the web browser and voiceover won't read anything. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, Ashley Bradner From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:42:27 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:42:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more specific help! Katie On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: > Hey guys, > Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks > between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say > Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, > blank, blank, blank, Other Link). > > Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some > buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to > click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried > JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. > > Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it > just me? What can I do about this? > > Wondering, > Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:52:03 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE 9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check boxes, please let me know. Best, Arielle On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi Jewel, > > I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never > encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else > who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try > reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this > process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a > new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from > past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't > always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more > specific help! > > Katie > > > On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >> Hey guys, >> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, >> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >> >> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >> >> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >> just me? What can I do about this? >> >> Wondering, >> Jewel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 18:56:08 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:56:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] sending large files through email Message-ID: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> hi all, I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on how to send large files through in an email? I have tried zipping the files nad sending it through but it doesn't seem to be giong. Thanks From zdreicer at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 19:56:10 2012 From: zdreicer at gmail.com (Griego-Dreicer, Zachary n) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:56:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] sending large files through email In-Reply-To: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> References: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> Message-ID: One method is to use dropbox. I can give you an invitation link so we can both got more space, and then you can send them directly from there! The recipient of your message we just got a link that he or she clicks on, and the file download begins immediately. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 17, 2012, at 12:56 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > hi all, > I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on how to send large files through in an email? I have tried zipping the files nad sending it through but it doesn't seem to be giong. Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zdreicer%40gmail.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Sep 17 19:57:00 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:57:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] sending large files through email In-Reply-To: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> Message-ID: Gloria, E-mail servers often impose limits on the sizes of files that can be attached. Some servers limit how big the file can be to send, and others also limit how large a file can be received. There isn't one single number for all circumstances, though. Some servers will block anything over 5MB, though, but others may allow larger files. If you have a file that is too large, you will need to look at a service like SENDSPACE which will let you upload a file and then send the other person a link. If you have DROPBOX, you can also use that to create a link to be sent in an e-mail. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:56:08 -0500, Gloria G wrote: >hi all, >I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on how to send large files through in an email? I have tried zipping the files nad sending it through but it doesn't seem to be giong. Thanks >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Sep 17 19:52:53 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:52:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly easy to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy way to find it other than to arrow down through the list until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You will not need to install IE 8 again because removing the update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has caused some problems for screen readers. Certainly using FireFox is another good option as well. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi Jewel, >Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >boxes, please let me know. >Best, >Arielle >On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi Jewel, >> >> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this >> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from >> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >> specific help! >> >> Katie >> >> >> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>> Hey guys, >>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, >>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>> >>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>> >>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>> just me? What can I do about this? >>> >>> Wondering, >>> Jewel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 20:08:37 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:08:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. Arielle On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly easy > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy way > to find it other than to arrow down through the list > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You will > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. > > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has caused > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using > FireFox is another good option as well. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>Hi Jewel, >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>boxes, please let me know. >>Best, >>Arielle > >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>> Hi Jewel, >>> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>> specific help! >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>>> Hey guys, >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>>> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>>> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>>> >>>> Wondering, >>>> Jewel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Sep 17 20:26:24 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:26:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arielle, Yes, it should work. I have accidentally installed IE 9 on two different Windows 7 machines and it has worked in both cases. What you may be running into is that you can't install IE 8 over IE 9, you have to uninstall the IE 9 update. IE 8 is actually sort of a part of Windows 7 and will be the browser of record once you uninstall the IE 9 update. I've also talked a couple of other people through this same process and it has worked. It sounds as though you got a misleading error message. If you try to remove the update and it doesn't work, please let me know as that would be something new in my experience, and we should find out what is different with your machine. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:08:37 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi Steve, >If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >Arielle >On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly easy >> to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >> History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy way >> to find it other than to arrow down through the list >> until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >> sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >> the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >> includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >> wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You will >> not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >> update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >> >> There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has caused >> some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >> FireFox is another good option as well. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> >> On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>Hi Jewel, >>>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>>boxes, please let me know. >>>Best, >>>Arielle >> >>>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> Hi Jewel, >>>> >>>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >>>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this >>>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from >>>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>>> specific help! >>>> >>>> Katie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>>>> Hey guys, >>>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, >>>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>>>> >>>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >>>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>>>> >>>>> Wondering, >>>>> Jewel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 20:40:02 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:40:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't find any updates in the list that were installed before October 31 and my reformat with IE 9 occurred on October 1. As I said, IE 9 was installed directly on my machine. Should I try uninstalling the IE 9 application entirely and then downloading and installing IE 8? I hope this works as I found IE 8 incredibly easier to use. Arielle On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Arielle, > > Yes, it should work. I have accidentally installed IE 9 on two different > Windows 7 machines and it has worked in both cases. > What you may be running into is that you can't install IE 8 over IE 9, you > have to uninstall the IE 9 update. IE 8 is actually > sort of a part of Windows 7 and will be the browser of record once you > uninstall the IE 9 update. I've also talked a couple of > other people through this same process and it has worked. It sounds as > though you got a misleading error message. > > If you try to remove the update and it doesn't work, please let me know as > that would be something new in my experience, and we > should find out what is different with your machine. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:08:37 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >>Hi Steve, >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>Arielle > >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly >>> easy >>> to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>> History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy >>> way >>> to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>> until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>> sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>> the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >>> includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>> wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >>> will >>> not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>> update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>> >>> There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >>> caused >>> some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>> FireFox is another good option as well. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >>>>Hi Jewel, >>>>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>>>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>>>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>>>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>>>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>>>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>>>boxes, please let me know. >>>>Best, >>>>Arielle >>> >>>>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>> Hi Jewel, >>>>> >>>>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >>>>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>>>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>>>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this >>>>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>>>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from >>>>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>>>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>>>> specific help! >>>>> >>>>> Katie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>>>>> Hey guys, >>>>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>>>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>>>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>>>>> "Home, >>>>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>>>>> >>>>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>>>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >>>>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>>>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>>>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Wondering, >>>>>> Jewel >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Sep 17 20:57:11 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:57:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arielle, As I understand it, when you install Windows 7, it starts out with IE 8. If you received the computer with IE 9 on it, it almost has to have been installed over IE 8, even if it was part of an install script. I am wondering if someone cleared out the updates from the Update history thinking that those updates just add confusion.. Before you do anything, it might be worth contacting whomever helped with reformatting your disk to be sure what they did. if your disk was reinstalled from an image, that might affect how it shows up. I bought my HP and it had IE 9 on it already, but it showed up in my history of updates even though it came with IE 9. However, there might be another way to do this if it doesn't appear in the history of updates. I believe the trick is how else to uninstall IE 9 if the update entry is not there. If that is done correctly, I don't believe you will need to reinstall IE 8. Still, if someone did something special, it might be necessary to get some help from them. I can only tell you that I am running IE 8 on two 32-bit and and one 64-bit computer, so I know that it can be done, but I've always been able to undo IE 9 through the update history so I'm a little concerned something different is going on with your computer. Also, if you get back to IE 8, you will want to "hide" the IE 9 update in Windows Update or Windows Update will just put it back on. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:40:02 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >I can't find any updates in the list that were installed before >October 31 and my reformat with IE 9 occurred on October 1. As I said, >IE 9 was installed directly on my machine. Should I try uninstalling >the IE 9 application entirely and then downloading and installing IE >8? I hope this works as I found IE 8 incredibly easier to use. >Arielle >On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Arielle, >> >> Yes, it should work. I have accidentally installed IE 9 on two different >> Windows 7 machines and it has worked in both cases. >> What you may be running into is that you can't install IE 8 over IE 9, you >> have to uninstall the IE 9 update. IE 8 is actually >> sort of a part of Windows 7 and will be the browser of record once you >> uninstall the IE 9 update. I've also talked a couple of >> other people through this same process and it has worked. It sounds as >> though you got a misleading error message. >> >> If you try to remove the update and it doesn't work, please let me know as >> that would be something new in my experience, and we >> should find out what is different with your machine. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:08:37 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>>Hi Steve, >>>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>>Arielle >> >>>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly >>>> easy >>>> to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>>> History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy >>>> way >>>> to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>>> until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>>> sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>>> the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >>>> includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>>> wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >>>> will >>>> not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>>> update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>>> >>>> There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >>>> caused >>>> some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>>> FireFox is another good option as well. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi Jewel, >>>>>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>>>>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>>>>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>>>>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>>>>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>>>>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>>>>boxes, please let me know. >>>>>Best, >>>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>>>>> Hi Jewel, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >>>>>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>>>>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>>>>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this >>>>>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>>>>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from >>>>>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>>>>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>>>>> specific help! >>>>>> >>>>>> Katie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>>>>>> Hey guys, >>>>>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>>>>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>>>>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>>>>>> "Home, >>>>>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>>>>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to >>>>>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>>>>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>>>>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wondering, >>>>>>> Jewel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From bre.brown24 at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 22:13:48 2012 From: bre.brown24 at gmail.com (Bre Brown) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:13:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect Message-ID: Greetings, Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart system? If so, what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? Thanks Bre Brown From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Sep 17 22:28:21 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <8EF829404BAC4D20AC82B91CB6FB0824@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1347920901.57169.YahooMailClassic@web160704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I got the last two Havan ever made. So my phone has historical value. Instead of octioning it on ebay, I will oction it on here. Starting bid 100 dollars. Remember it is one of the last two sold so it is historically valuable. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 9/14/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > From: Ashley Bramlett > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 8:34 PM > gee, why did they have to discontinue > the haven. too bad. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:46 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hello, > > Gloria c., > > If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE > which SMART > Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I > believe > Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the > form of > a Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely > rumored > that Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box > Screen Reader > for Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of > "The > BLIND", who have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of > the Box > Screen Reader VoiceOver. > > However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, > there are > usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the > Box > ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the > Apple iPhone > at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most > out of the > Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has > been > discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's > Network. > > I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to > determine, > which Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. > > At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: > >I've never heard of it. > >Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll > be fine. > >Blessings, Joshua > >________________________________________ > >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > on behalf of > >Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM > >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > > >Hi all, > >I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My > Touch Q? If so, is > >it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen > Mobil, but I have had > >situations in which the carrier will say something is > accessible or has > >speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. > Thanks for any help you > >can give. > >Gloria > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From member at linkedin.com Mon Sep 17 22:46:59 2012 From: member at linkedin.com (Antonio Guimaraes via LinkedIn) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:46:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <560113871.4137255.1347922019267.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2320.prod> LinkedIn ------------ Antonio Guimaraes requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Eric, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Antonio Accept invitation from Antonio Guimaraes http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h785yugt-17/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I364741934_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYQcPANd3sQdzd9bP9LnSIJgCRabP8MdPAVe3wUdzwLrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1Tj41ivuJmORo1 View profile of Antonio Guimaraes http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h785yugt-17/rso/204736009/DNV2/name/85813888_I364741934_11/?hs=false&tok=1QB8ETQilmORo1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h785yugt-17/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=3zxsyTeIpmORo1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 01:03:20 2012 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:03:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: Hello Brandon, I live in Gainesville, Fl, and AT&T is my carrier. However, I kept on using my all phone because sellers here don't know anything about accessible phones. Could you please give me any references? Thank you. Adriana Pulido 2012/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs : > Hello, > Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). > Or be a rebel and get an Android. > AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android are > basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are not very > good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I don't know about > > the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came out and it was not very > > good. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >> >> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >> >> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >> you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Sep 18 01:08:16 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:08:16 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: <5057C980.2080902@tysdomain.com> ATNT supports IPhone now, if you want to go that way. A lot of the LG phones that had partial speech were discontinued though. Before my IPhone, I had an ENV3 and was fine with it until it broke; after that point I grabbed an IPhone. A used ENV3 was $180, IPhone was $200. I'm glad I went with the extra $20. On 9/17/2012 7:03 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: > Hello Brandon, > I live in Gainesville, Fl, and AT&T is my carrier. However, I kept on > using my all phone because sellers here don't know anything about > accessible phones. Could you please give me any references? > > Thank you. > > Adriana Pulido > > 2012/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs : >> Hello, >> Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). >> Or be a rebel and get an Android. >> AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android are >> basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are not very >> good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I don't know about >> >> the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came out and it was not very >> >> good. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gloria G >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> >>> I've never heard of it. >>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >>> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >>> >>> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >>> >>> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >>> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >>> you can give. >>> Gloria >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com >> > -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 01:10:55 2012 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:10:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! In-Reply-To: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> References: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Gerardo! it's good to see new listers coming! I'm a Fulbright scholar from Colombia, so I think you and I speak the same language. I'm studying a master's in Mass Communications (Journalism) at University of Florida. Of course, your suggestions will be welcome! Adriana Pulido 2012/9/16, Gerardo Corripio : > Hi listers: I'm Gerardo from Tampico in Mexico. Though I'm not a student, > (I've got a psychology major and am nearly 35 years old) I feel I can help > and give ideas/suggestions on my days as a student. Also hope to recall > those good times when I'd have to get up early, get home and do homework > etc > etc. Thanks for letting me in. > > Gerardo > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From dsykora29 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 01:34:58 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:34:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! In-Reply-To: References: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Gerardo, Welcome to the list! My name is Danielle and I'm a sophomore in high school. Yes, your suggestions will definitely be welcome! Danielle On 9/17/12, Adriana Pulido wrote: > Hi Gerardo! it's good to see new listers coming! > I'm a Fulbright scholar from Colombia, so I think you and I speak the > same language. I'm studying a master's in Mass Communications > (Journalism) at University of Florida. > > Of course, your suggestions will be welcome! > > Adriana Pulido > > 2012/9/16, Gerardo Corripio : >> Hi listers: I'm Gerardo from Tampico in Mexico. Though I'm not a student, >> (I've got a psychology major and am nearly 35 years old) I feel I can >> help >> and give ideas/suggestions on my days as a student. Also hope to recall >> those good times when I'd have to get up early, get home and do homework >> etc >> etc. Thanks for letting me in. >> >> Gerardo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 03:22:01 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 23:22:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] using bookshare on a mac In-Reply-To: <7F0D6FFF-E0C6-4BDB-8D7D-9B98D54CBEA0@yahoo.com> References: <7F0D6FFF-E0C6-4BDB-8D7D-9B98D54CBEA0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, Are you using a notetaker? If you are, it might be easier to download the books in BRF and reading them on there. Otherwise, you can download the books in DAISY, and one of the files you unzip is a XML type. It's usually the third one on the list. Anyway, that will open up the book in your browser, and you can navigate by chapters, it just depends on the book. Let me know if you have any further questions. Hope this helps. Mary On 9/17/12, Ashley Bradner wrote: > Hi All, > I am writing to ask if any of you are familiar with the bookshare software > for the Mac. I have been using read2go for the iphone, but my books are so > large that I'm having problems reading them using this method. I just > recently got a macbook pro and am still learning to use it. I downloaded > read out loud, but am having trouble using it since not everything is > spoken, especially in the web browser and voiceover won't read anything. Any > suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks a lot, > Ashley Bradner > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory 2012 "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich From amieelsabo at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 03:30:11 2012 From: amieelsabo at gmail.com (Amy Sabo) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:30:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] sending large files through email In-Reply-To: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> References: <64C6C00B095D43BFA22A8C6B5507A9B5@Gloria> Message-ID: <035601cd954d$e968eac0$bc3ac040$@gmail.com> Hello Gloria and all, As for sending large files through email there 2 programs that I have used and, I believe that they are both helpful to you. The first one is dropbox and, you can download a free copy or purchase the professional version at www.dropbox.com. Or, you can also use sendspace which is another one you can use for free or can purchase it for a fee. That's www.sendspace.com I hope this information is helpful to you! Hugs, amy -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] sending large files through email hi all, I was wondering if anyone could give me tips on how to send large files through in an email? I have tried zipping the files and sending it through but it doesn't seem to be going. Thanks _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amieelsabo%40gmail.com From codyjbair at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 04:15:00 2012 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Bre, I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very accessible. Thanks, Cody --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: > From: Bre Brown > Subject: [nabs-l] Connect > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM > Greetings, > > Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart > system?  If so, > what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? > > Thanks > Bre Brown > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 04:21:18 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:21:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Message-ID: Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is essential. I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but myself. Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. I appreciate any feedback you can offer. -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 04:24:14 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:24:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and photography survey Message-ID: I know that I circulate a lot of surveys via the lists, but I think that our voice is important when blindness-related issues are being researched. Right now, some researchers at UC Santa Cruz are interested in blind people and photography. They want to hear your experiences with taking pictures, or why you don’t. This information is being gathered to gage future steps in innovating the photography process, taking pictures, storing them, and uploading them to social media websites and sending them via email. So, your feedback is wanted. Whether you use your vision to take pictures, whether you take pictures nonvisually, or whether you don’t take pictures at all for whatever reason, you should fill out this survey. And, for giving only about ten minutes of your time, you will be entered to win one of two $20 Amazon gift cards. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XPYHTZ9 -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 18 04:34:38 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:34:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23370625E9EC42579670EDB149543ABE@OwnerPC> Hi Cindy, I had the same issue although I was inside standing by a table. My goal was to catch and engage students and other passers-by to stop at our table and donate to the cause and/or buy a sweet product; it was a bake sale. I found that I played a marginal role because I could not get their attention. I have some vision and can even make eye contact, but that is when the person is standing or sitting still. If they are rushing by me not looking to talk to me, I also find it hard to get their attention. Same issue when asking for help; by the time I ask a question, they have walked far enough away that they are not listening. The main advice I have is to perhaps hold up a sign about your cause. I also think this is where good nonverbal communication comes in. If someone showed you a motion for "come here" or something like that, maybe that would get their attention. Also, probably what you are wearing will help. Often, clothing does the talking. People just do not want to stop for random things. But if your clothes indicate your purpose, maybe they will have a look. So, will you be wearing a t shirt or hat or something to indicate you are a volunteer with this cause? If you have some wearable advertisement, this might help attract attention. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:21 AM To: Jobs for the Blind ; National Asociation of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is essential. I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but myself. Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. I appreciate any feedback you can offer. -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 04:34:50 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:34:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Cindy, That's a tough one. Will you have a sign to hold or if not, could you make an inexpensive one? That might help engage people although I know there's still the issue of folks being less likely to walk away if you make eye contact with them from a distance. Perhaps a sign coupled with assertively verbaly engaging people as they walk by could help. Or, might you be paired up with another canvasser? Sorry I can't be more helpful. Arielle On 9/17/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at > blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where > I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations > change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage > passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the > cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very > good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the > conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some > advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when > they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will > be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my > experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, > by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person > realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a > few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people > sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize > that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on > their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I > had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict > fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is > essential. > > I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people > at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position > really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but > myself. > > Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some > great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the > director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long > term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some > concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short > time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. > > I appreciate any feedback you can offer. > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 05:13:16 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 22:13:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's fine. To be more specific, I would wear a shirt representing the cause. I have a couple of other potential opportunities that might pan out in the next couple of weeks, so I am going to wait on those answers until I make a decision about this since canvassers are always needed, but I thought asking could at least generate discussion. Cindy On 9/17/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Cindy, > That's a tough one. Will you have a sign to hold or if not, could you > make an inexpensive one? That might help engage people although I know > there's still the issue of folks being less likely to walk away if you > make eye contact with them from a distance. Perhaps a sign coupled > with assertively verbaly engaging people as they walk by could help. > Or, might you be paired up with another canvasser? > Sorry I can't be more helpful. > Arielle > > On 9/17/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at >> blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where >> I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations >> change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage >> passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the >> cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very >> good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the >> conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some >> advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when >> they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will >> be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my >> experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, >> by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person >> realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a >> few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people >> sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize >> that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on >> their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I >> had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict >> fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is >> essential. >> >> I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people >> at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position >> really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but >> myself. >> >> Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some >> great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the >> director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long >> term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some >> concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short >> time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. >> >> I appreciate any feedback you can offer. >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bre.brown24 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 06:12:36 2012 From: bre.brown24 at gmail.com (Bre Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:12:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hmmmmm, What screen reader were you using? What internet browser. I am trying to use it, and nothing is labeled. Everytime I click on my quiz, nothing comes up. Thanks Bre On 9/17/12, Cody Bair wrote: > Hi Bre, > I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very > accessible. > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: > >> From: Bre Brown >> Subject: [nabs-l] Connect >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM >> Greetings, >> >> Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart >> system? If so, >> what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? >> >> Thanks >> Bre Brown >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 07:28:24 2012 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:28:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The National Association of Blind Students Presents: Meet The Blind Month and how you can get involved! Message-ID: Greetings fellow blind students! October is “Meet The Blind Month," and the National Association of Blind Students wants to make this year’s activities the most exciting and student-active to date. With this in mind, the membership committee invites you all to the September membership call “Meet The Blind Month." Join us on Sunday, as we hear from Mika Baugh from our national center about our month-long promotion and education campaign, as she will share ideas and experiences that are sure to spark your creative side. What: meet The Blind Month Conference Call. When: Sunday, September 23rd, 2012 at 7p.m. ET. Where: Conference call, (530) 881-1212 code: 757-809-541 We look forward to you joining us! The Nabs Membership Committee. From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 18 08:58:16 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 03:58:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I don't know if you can go back from IE9? Dave At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >Hi Steve, >If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >Arielle > >On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly easy > > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update > > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy way > > to find it other than to arrow down through the list > > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, > > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to > > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that > > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact > > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You will > > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the > > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. > > > > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has caused > > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using > > FireFox is another good option as well. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Steve Jacobson > > > > > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > >>Hi Jewel, > >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've > >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE > >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of > >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble > >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if > >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check > >>boxes, please let me know. > >>Best, > >>Arielle > > > >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: > >>> Hi Jewel, > >>> > >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never > >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else > >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try > >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this > >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a > >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from > >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't > >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more > >>> specific help! > >>> > >>> Katie > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: > >>>> Hey guys, > >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks > >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say > >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, > >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). > >>>> > >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some > >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to > >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried > >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. > >>>> > >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it > >>>> just me? What can I do about this? > >>>> > >>>> Wondering, > >>>> Jewel From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 18 09:06:57 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 04:06:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] free stem conference call sept. 24 Message-ID: > > >Hello, >Mark your calendar for next Monday, September 24, at 6 PM PST. >We will have an exciting 1 hour conference call featuring speakers >working in different fields in science technology engineering and math. >This conference call should be of particular interest to blind >students and new professionals in STEM.Speakers include Nathanael >Wales, John Miller, and others. >Fields of interest will include math, software, and civil >engineering.The conference call number is >Conference Dial-in Number: (559) 726-1000 >Participant Access Code: 493149#Please remember to press *6 to mute >yourself after you enter the call. >Press *6 again when you wish to speak. >Look forward to hearing from all of you.Best regards, >John Miller From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Tue Sep 18 11:03:57 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:03:57 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: References: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: Hi, Bre! I've never used the system, but I've found the version of Blackboard, that my college uses, to be inaccessible with Jaws 10, because that's what I have on my lap top. What screenreader do you use? Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bre Brown [bre.brown24 at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:12 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Connect Hmmmmm, What screen reader were you using? What internet browser. I am trying to use it, and nothing is labeled. Everytime I click on my quiz, nothing comes up. Thanks Bre On 9/17/12, Cody Bair wrote: > Hi Bre, > I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very > accessible. > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: > >> From: Bre Brown >> Subject: [nabs-l] Connect >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM >> Greetings, >> >> Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart >> system? If so, >> what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? >> >> Thanks >> Bre Brown >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From codyjbair at yahoo.com Tue Sep 18 12:09:36 2012 From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 06:09:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: References: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8DB4F0B1-7ADB-4434-A3A2-2F9DB3BF7C37@yahoo.com> I used jaws 12 with IE 8. Cody Sent from my iPhone On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Bre Brown wrote: > Hmmmmm, > > What screen reader were you using? What internet browser. I am trying > to use it, and nothing is labeled. Everytime I click on my quiz, > nothing comes up. > > Thanks > Bre > > On 9/17/12, Cody Bair wrote: >> Hi Bre, >> I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very >> accessible. >> Thanks, >> Cody >> >> --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: >> >>> From: Bre Brown >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Connect >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart >>> system? If so, >>> what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bre Brown >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 13:36:25 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:36:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4738F6BC-08F6-4122-9DB9-7CC55BF36817@gmail.com> I am using both for biology. First, I found LearnSmart not to be accessible because it uses inaccessible flash. Second, I require sighted assistance on quizzes to start the quiz because it is a flash button and with the drag-and-drops that are completely inaccessible. --Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Sep 18, 2012, at 12:15 AM, Cody Bair wrote: > Hi Bre, > I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very accessible. > Thanks, > Cody > > --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: > >> From: Bre Brown >> Subject: [nabs-l] Connect >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM >> Greetings, >> >> Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart >> system? If so, >> what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? >> >> Thanks >> Bre Brown >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Tue Sep 18 14:34:01 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 08:34:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Connect In-Reply-To: References: <1347941700.19309.YahooMailClassic@web110707.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, Message-ID: <50588659.1030600@tysdomain.com> Josh: telling her Blackboard doesn't work doesn't really add anything of note to the thread, since she wasn't actually... asking about blackboard! On 9/18/2012 5:03 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Bre! > I've never used the system, but I've found the version of Blackboard, that my college uses, to be inaccessible with Jaws 10, because that's what I have on my lap top. > What screenreader do you use? > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bre Brown [bre.brown24 at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:12 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Connect > > Hmmmmm, > > What screen reader were you using? What internet browser. I am trying > to use it, and nothing is labeled. Everytime I click on my quiz, > nothing comes up. > > Thanks > Bre > > On 9/17/12, Cody Bair wrote: >> Hi Bre, >> I used conect for an accounting coarse last semester and found it to be very >> accessible. >> Thanks, >> Cody >> >> --- On Mon, 9/17/12, Bre Brown wrote: >> >>> From: Bre Brown >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Connect >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 4:13 PM >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Has anyone ever used McGraw-Hill's connect/learn smart >>> system? If so, >>> what are your thoughts? Was it accessible? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bre Brown >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 17:49:56 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 13:49:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle and all, I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still be your best alternative! Katie On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I > don't know if you can go back from IE9? > > Dave > > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >>Hi Steve, >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>Arielle >> >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly >> > easy >> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy >> > way >> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >> > will >> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >> > >> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >> > caused >> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >> > FireFox is another good option as well. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > Steve Jacobson >> > >> > >> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> > >> >>Hi Jewel, >> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >> >>boxes, please let me know. >> >>Best, >> >>Arielle >> > >> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >> >>> Hi Jewel, >> >>> >> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never >> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >> >>> this >> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >> >>> from >> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >> >>> specific help! >> >>> >> >>> Katie >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >> >>>> Hey guys, >> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >> >>>> "Home, >> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >> >>>> >> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person >> >>>> to >> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >> >>>> >> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >> >>>> >> >>>> Wondering, >> >>>> Jewel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 18 19:42:19 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:42:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Katie, Thank you so much for letting me know about that! I use Google search and Gmail and Google groups and all, so not being able to use Google services would be disasterous fir me! I think I'll put up with IE 9 and hope they fix things You say everything works for you. I have the same set-up qas you do...do you have any trouble with Bookshare? It's not showing the Download button. I have a similar problem with BARD...not being able to browse by author, title letter, or subject...those two things really cut into my ability to find books and download them independently. I tried re-upgrading my JAWS and that didn't work...what else should I try, or should I write to someone about this, like Microsoft or Freedom Scientific? Perplexed by this problem, Jewel On 9/18/12, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi Arielle and all, > > I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google > is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 > will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so > going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best > option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and > everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell > out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do > everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still > be your best alternative! > > Katie > > > On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >> Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >> don't know if you can go back from IE9? >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >>>Hi Steve, >>>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>>Arielle >>> >>>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly >>> > easy >>> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >>> > easy >>> > way >>> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >>> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >>> > will >>> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>> > >>> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >>> > caused >>> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>> > FireFox is another good option as well. >>> > >>> > Best regards, >>> > >>> > Steve Jacobson >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> > >>> >>Hi Jewel, >>> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>> >>boxes, please let me know. >>> >>Best, >>> >>Arielle >>> > >>> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jewel, >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >>> >>> never >>> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >>> >>> this >>> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >>> >>> from >>> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>> >>> specific help! >>> >>> >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys, >>> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>> >>>> "Home, >>> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person >>> >>>> to >>> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Wondering, >>> >>>> Jewel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From brlsurfer at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 01:44:12 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 17:44:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions about the ipad and the braillenote apex Message-ID: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9@mx.google.com> Hi All, I'm starting to learn how to use my ipad with the braille note apex as a keyboard. But there are 2 questions that I have. First, how do you go forward a page when you are reading on ibooks? A manual said it was space with o, but that actually takes me to the braille note options menu. Second, how do you capitalize in the beginning of a sentance? The ipad only seems to capitalize words in the middle. Let's take this sentence as an example: They went to South Africa last month. The ipad will automatically capitalize South Africa, but not they. Please if you could answer any of these questions, I'd greatly aprreciate it. Vejas From treyman19 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 08:28:24 2012 From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 04:28:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Off Topic Trecker Breeze, used pac-mate, and Eyepal, and Duxbury. Message-ID: As the subject says I have a Trecker Breeze in good shape for $450 Used Pac-Mate $200 Duxbury $500, and Eyepal in good shape $750 you can contact me at 219-789-7073 treyman19 at gmail.com -- Roosevelt Bradley From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 19 09:58:28 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 05:58:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for GoogleDocs services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it would include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. Dave At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: >Hi Arielle and all, > >I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google >is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 >will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so >going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best >option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and >everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell >out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do >everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still >be your best alternative! > >Katie > > >On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: > > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I > > don't know if you can go back from IE9? > > > > Dave > > > > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: > >>Hi Steve, > >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this > >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually > >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. > >>Arielle > >> > >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > >> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly > >> > easy > >> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update > >> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy > >> > way > >> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list > >> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, > >> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to > >> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that > >> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact > >> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You > >> > will > >> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the > >> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. > >> > > >> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has > >> > caused > >> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using > >> > FireFox is another good option as well. > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > > >> > Steve Jacobson > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> > > >> >>Hi Jewel, > >> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've > >> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE > >> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of > >> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble > >> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if > >> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check > >> >>boxes, please let me know. > >> >>Best, > >> >>Arielle > >> > > >> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: > >> >>> Hi Jewel, > >> >>> > >> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never > >> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else > >> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try > >> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with > >> >>> this > >> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a > >> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but > >> >>> from > >> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't > >> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more > >> >>> specific help! > >> >>> > >> >>> Katie > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: > >> >>>> Hey guys, > >> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks > >> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say > >> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get > >> >>>> "Home, > >> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some > >> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person > >> >>>> to > >> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried > >> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it > >> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Wondering, > >> >>>> Jewel From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Mon Sep 17 22:26:26 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:26:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Message-ID: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I'm wondering if anyone has any articles, books or advice for speeding up my Braille reading? I'm at the point to where no matter how much I seem to read, my reading is not getting any faster... At the moment I'm reading with my left index finger and my right finger takes over when lines don't have any really complicated words... I'm getting down the two hand split, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can be working on? I've read that sighted people tend to see words in pictures and they don't actually read the whole word. In fact they look at a paragraph and get the picture in their head and hardly notice any particular words at all. I'm wondering if there is some way to do this with Braille? The TVIs that I've talked to have not worked with their students to go past letter by letter reading. I'm really looking for a Braille reading technique book if anything exists on that... Reading Braille doesn't feel like understanding speech at faster speeds which is something I have been able to do with no guidance :) so I'm kind of at a loss. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 14:28:30 2012 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:28:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, I'm equally perplexed by your problem-- I use both BARD and Bookshare regularly, and neither site has ever given me any problems. I can't think of anything else for you to try. Maybe it's time to give Freedom Scientific tech support a call (727-803-8600) and see if they might have any insights. Hope you will be able to get this issue resolved soon! Katie On 9/19/12, David Andrews wrote: > Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for GoogleDocs > services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it would > include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. > > Dave > > At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: >>Hi Arielle and all, >> >>I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google >>is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 >>will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so >>going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best >>option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and >>everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell >>out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do >>everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still >>be your best alternative! >> >>Katie >> >> >>On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >> > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >> > don't know if you can go back from IE9? >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >> >>Hi Steve, >> >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >> >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >> >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >> >>Arielle >> >> >> >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> >> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is >> >> > fairly >> >> > easy >> >> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >> >> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >> >> > easy >> >> > way >> >> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >> >> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >> >> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >> >> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >> >> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >> >> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >> >> > will >> >> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >> >> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >> >> > >> >> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >> >> > caused >> >> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >> >> > FireFox is another good option as well. >> >> > >> >> > Best regards, >> >> > >> >> > Steve Jacobson >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>Hi Jewel, >> >> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >> >> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use >> >> >> IE >> >> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead >> >> >> of >> >> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >> >> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >> >> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >> >> >>boxes, please let me know. >> >> >>Best, >> >> >>Arielle >> >> > >> >> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Jewel, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >> >> >>> never >> >> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone >> >> >>> else >> >> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >> >> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >> >> >>> this >> >> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >> >> >>> from >> >> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >> >> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of >> >> >>> more >> >> >>> specific help! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Katie >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >> >> >>>> Hey guys, >> >> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more >> >> >>>> blanks >> >> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having >> >> >>>> say >> >> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >> >> >>>> "Home, >> >> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >> >> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted >> >> >>>> person >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I >> >> >>>> tried >> >> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is >> >> >>>> it >> >> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Wondering, >> >> >>>> Jewel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 14:35:22 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:35:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? Message-ID: <5059d832.c6e1440a.5907.ffffb300@mx.google.com> Does anyone have Windows 8 yet? ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie Wang wrote: Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for GoogleDocs services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it would include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. Dave At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: Hi Arielle and all, I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still be your best alternative! Katie On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I don't know if you can go back from IE9? Dave At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: Hi Steve, If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. Arielle On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly easy to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no easy way to find it other than to arrow down through the list until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You will not need to install IE 8 again because removing the update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has caused some problems for screen readers. Certainly using FireFox is another good option as well. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi Jewel, Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE 9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check boxes, please let me know. Best, Arielle On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: Hi Jewel, I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have never encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with this process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but from past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more specific help! Katie On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: Hey guys, Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get "Home, blank, blank, blank, Other Link). Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person to click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it just me? What can I do about this? Wondering, Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%4 0gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 14:43:01 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:43:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello, 99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Gloria, I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the I Phone and you do not want one. If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it has when you won't use it. I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as you dial; I think that is all is voiced. The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being made. You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last time I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found accessible phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold online. So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all accessible, but the major functions of it would be. And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From andrewjedg at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 14:49:56 2012 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew Edgcumbe) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:49:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Message-ID: Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 14:53:18 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Message-ID: <5059dc66.e7ea440a.4862.ffffc198@mx.google.com> I am getting an Iphone soon. I would reccomend the Haven I've never had it but I hear it's very accessible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <776A94F604F94976A62172E152792885@userPC> What do you mean that part of the Haven is not accessable? I am able to change the settings of that if I want. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hello, 99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Gloria, I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the I Phone and you do not want one. If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it has when you won't use it. I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as you dial; I think that is all is voiced. The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being made. You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last time I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found accessible phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold online. So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all accessible, but the major functions of it would be. And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Gloria G Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hi all, I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you can give. Gloria _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co m From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 15:04:55 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:04:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: <78898D5E-D539-42C7-8A74-B79EC510B11F@gmail.com> References: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> <78898D5E-D539-42C7-8A74-B79EC510B11F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, Unfortunately to change attitudes you need to be excepted. Considering many blind folks are just novices at the rules of the sighted world (Especially the congenitally blind), even years of lessons may not get them to the level to where they would be distressed. Also, lots of the stress is because sighted people themselves are unsure of the rules themselves. If someone purposely breaks a rule once or twice to get what they want, it is seen as brave. If they break the rules all the time, it is seen as weird. I totally believe men and women should learn the social norms for men and women. For example, men do not go around sitting in the splits. They save the splits for dance only. Also, there are rules for different body types. I'm sure there are many generalities that will hold true for many circumstance, and many of the rules will only be ways of communicating different information. For example, Guys should not wear very tight, stretchy pants with a shorter shirt unless they want to convey how big and... muscular they are. But frankly, again, most blind people once worked past their kinetic oddities, will be much more excepted in the world. For example, I'm trying really hard now to stop snapping my retainers, because I guess it really creeps people out... :( Once people learn the rules, they will be able to label anything new that pops up and work to remove the odd mannerism from their actions. Thank you, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 7:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Chris wrote, Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, self-loathing, and anguish. We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is interested. Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right way to act. This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people how to look and act like sighted people. Regards, Marc On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if > we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, > I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect > the actual topic of Brandon's message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional > seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the > sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB > leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched > on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the > parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and > how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best > we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more > important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or > want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our > communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very > adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the > vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind > people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted > people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then > it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become > first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing > already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, > perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS > membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe sex. There > is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against the > grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has suggested > that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted world > thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something really weird > and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of > attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that aren't > meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 15:41:24 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:41:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6F8D22BD1ED942BDB7A9D449AB7BCB7B@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, This is not really the idea. You are talking of stereotypes, we are talking about rules. It is more like women should not ask the guy on the date unless they wanted to be labeled as forward. Women should be free to hug and touch as much as they want for affection, but guys should leave their social touching to be used for great effect. In America it isn't that odd for women to kiss women if they are both best friends, but guys should not kiss one another unless they are from a different culture (French or something) where they have a special way of kissing on both cheeks, or want to be seen as gay. Stereotypical ideas of being a stay at home mom, finding a man who has a job and what not is more a lifestyle choice that says something about you being a go-getter or not. Frankly though, some stay at home parents are pretty amazing. Now with the advenchan of the internet, stay at home moms or dads can work from the home if they want, they are often leaders in PTAs, are very big in politics and do unbelievable amounts of things that working people could never do. But it is only a reflection of one's personality. How willing is one to doggedly search for answers to questions, learn new things, attend appointments, get up in the morning and actually get things done rather than falling into the pointless actions of playing games, watching TV, sitting and reading books or listening to the radio. Of course people can multi task and often times that is what people do, but again that takes discipline and many people don't have much of it. But it wouldn't heart to menschen the image that being a stay at home parent gives vs. working and the image marrying a man with a good job gives vs. not. Other than that it is personal choice like always. But because we aren't able to see bodies, I believe bodily and early adolescent and College behavioral norms should be studied first. (I don't know anyone except for very old people, who think women should not go into STEM... Some of the most world changing discoveries strictly came from women, especially in astronomy. (Has anyone heard of stars being more than 60 thousand light years away? That was because of a woman... :) I think the largest stereotype we need to break is that: Blind people look blind, are odd, helpless, can't work, don't do anything impressive except for the inspirations, shouldn't be displayed in public as standards of excellence, are ugly, are not safe, can't handle stairs and are not acceptable in the sighted world except under the label of blind. Blindness is only an inconvenience when you don't look blind, otherwise it is a label. I have met people who are convinced that I'm not blind. I've gone into auditions where people have no idea that I'm blind till I ask them if they have questions about my blindness. This is what it means for blindness to be an inconvenience. Oh yeah, by the way, I'm blind... "You're blind? Really? You don't look blind..." Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 15:53:39 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:53:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <50539bdf.4244340a.24f8.2574@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3E46F6FAE20E49D39090834344E12B0F@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I think our problem is we are erm... blind... It would be amazingly helpful if we got a sighted TVI to come in and give us their thoughts. We should make the list and then I can give the TVIs I know a ping. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Chris, Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose not conforming makes us look weird, incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be? No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just exactly how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss fashion or how to act this is best done by modeling. We need to be shown and have descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone conference just doesn't do this well IMO. Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings as an example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken rules there; I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked other students about the scene privately afterward. They dress like college students on campus which generally means with t shirts and blue jeans. Some students wear t shirts and athletic style shorts. Some dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most students wear sneakers or sandles depending partly on weather and confort. The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, rules of respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait your turn for it to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the food is handled. For instance at my bible study meetings. we passed food around the room on a plate or set it on the little coffee table in the middle of the room for people to walk to. Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other activities often were going on in other rooms, listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to speak, and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to go. Oh, and no assigned seating; first come, first served. I mention this so you don't have the impression that social gatherings are these formal times with many procedures and policies to follow. Social gatherings are simple a place to get together and have fun and share information; they are just that-- to socialize. Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. Now if you go to other more formal settings, big difference! A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal dance are examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings. If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms pertain to particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not in another. I struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have to ask someone and listen more to find out what is going on. It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation and for me it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure out a pattern and discern their norms. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society atsocial gatherings Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1C65EED823E84228A561FC25BF8D1EED@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, I run on my own all the time... If one is in the city it is best to find a track, but I lived in the country growing up and I just ran along back roads, making sure I wasn't in the way of the big tractors. This is something the social list can deal with as well. It is a stereotype that blind people need guides to ride bikes or run... I only started tandem biking now I live in the city and there is way too much traffic and stop lights for me to memorize. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Desiree, That's too bad. I wonder what sort of basis your parents had to tell you such things. It sounds like they did not know successful blind people. It sounds like they did not support you in your quest to grow. Those are really put downs-- to tell someone they will grow up to be worthless. As for fat, that does have an element of truth. Most blind people I encounter are physically inactive and yes are overweight. Its harder for us to be active as we need a partner to run or bike outside. Fitness machines are getting fancier with screens to set up the equipment. You have to memorize what button does what to operate those lovely cardio machines. Anyway, on the subject of self esteem and being worth something, you have to find your niche and be around people. Social skills develop via experience. I still haven't figured out how to join an existing conversation without cutting someone else off. I can better join a conversation of two people; any more than that, its hard to jump in it. You can definitely grow up to be worth something. Following norms is just one part of fitting in. Other factors include having something to give in the friendship, being a pleasant person and living in a place where you can travel around. Arielle already mentioned that one. One more thing is that I think we need to create opportunities for ourselves to use our abilities and show the community what we can do. So joining a non blindness club or volunteering with an organization you like will help out a lot. You will be more well rounded then and get experience while increasing self esteem. Take care. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Hi Arielle, Yes, you certainly made a lot of sense to me. What we all should be taking away from your message is that none of us has the right to pass judgment on another just because we should feel that someone else, whether we know them in real life or not, is making the so-called "blind community" look bad. yes, I put that in quotes, because you know what? I don't believe it exists. We are all individuals who are perhaps bonded by the common trait of seeing less than those in society who are deemed to see more than us. But again, seeing is relative. Some supposedly sighted people are shallow, while blind" people can be wise, deep, meaningful or any other emotional adjective you can apply to soul searching, if you will. So, sighted people see the physical world in which they live every day, and of course many of them can be good people, just as blind people can be, well, shallow and uninformed. But that's the beauty of it: just because we have nonfunctional eyes, or eyes that maybe don't work as well as others, doesn't mean we should be treated as second class citizens, nor should we criticize others for what they lack. I can think of many things I lack, or lacked in the past tense, but would have been considered normal for everyone to know at the time, and I had to hide for fear of what people would think of me if I revealed what I didn't know. When I was growing up, I longed to know someone who wouldn't judge me. I wanted more than anything to not be put down for things i didn't know. I wished my parents didn't say things about how I would grow up to be fat and worthless like most other blind people. I wish that people hadn't given up on me before I even knew what I was capable of, because as a result of that, I have no clue what I'm capable of now. I guess that's why I wish I could reach out to others who are in that position now, because I know how painful it is, and no, maybe I haven't fully gotten over my own past, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything. On 9/15/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 16:45:26 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:45:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <0E740F24214146819B905219617442FE@OwnerPC> References: <50550d22.8697320a.1d20.4997@mx.google.com> <0E740F24214146819B905219617442FE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello, Beth, It may be good to consider becoming vegetarian as I spend maybe $130 max a month on food if I'm buying extra desserts and whatnot. It is a good idea to memorize the food groups, write out a menu for 2 weeks and make sure you have everything for those two weeks . Go shopping once a week. Here in CA I'm living pretty well off of SSI and I'm living in my own master sweet. I believe it is a funny thought that white bred, premade drinks and rommin is cheaper. Wheat Bred counts as a grain, especially if it has seeds in it where as white bread is little more than air. Mixed drinks are only cheep if gotten at Costco. Otherwise it is best to get frozen cans and mix the drinks yourself. Attached is my food menu for anyone who wants to take a look... I do mix and mach and frankly I haven't eaten the fried stuff once, so this is a basic guideline. (Also, I eat 2 or so boles of serial a day with frozen berries on the top and I don't buy serial with less than 4 grams of fiber because anything less than that will lead to constipation and an empty stomach around 12 or 1. I also don't buy cows milk because it doesn't last very long, doesn't have the properties of whole milk and leaves me feeling not the best in the afternoon, so I go soy. If I'm feeling creative I also make siniman bread or eggs and hash browns or pancakes, but serial is most of the time. Attached is my food list and menu. Please excuse my spelling, I like to amuse my parents and Italian is better for my sanity than English :) :P. Also, this is something my Daily living instructor did with me from DOR. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:25 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Beth, Yes some of them have drinks. That is a tough situation with rising grocery prices and reduced food stamps. I don't know why they'd reduce food stamps in this climate with inflation. I know there's more to the story wich is too personal. You could probably get assistance from some nonprofit or mosque. Maybe nfb members in your area would loan you money if you were bold enough to ask them. Hope you can find a way to obtain necessities. -----Original Message----- From: Beth Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't afford it all. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: Good morning all, My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is on a topic we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of this since posture is a issue for us as blind people. There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back pain. I bring this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many back conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad posture since I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, Reky. Wright me off-list for more information. Sent from my iPad On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: List of food staples.doc Type: application/msword Size: 26624 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 17:10:53 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:10:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> Message-ID: Hello, Other than the phones below, there is mobalspeek on a phone with the hand held reader. There are some other hard to find phones that I've never really delbt with, but Talks is a good place to start looking. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Adriana Pulido Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Hello Brandon, I live in Gainesville, Fl, and AT&T is my carrier. However, I kept on using my all phone because sellers here don't know anything about accessible phones. Could you please give me any references? Thank you. Adriana Pulido 2012/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs : > Hello, > Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). > Or be a rebel and get an Android. > AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android are > basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are not very > good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I don't know > about > > the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came out and it was not > very > > good. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > >> I've never heard of it. >> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of >> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >> >> Hi all, >> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >> is >> >> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have >> had >> >> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >> you can give. >> Gloria >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 17:28:38 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:28:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, When you want to talk to someone, start walking toward them and possibly look a little forward or what not. It would be interesting to go on a trial run with a sighted person and have the sighted person do the first couple handouts and you do a couple and if there is some difficulty have the sighted person review what happened and help you brainstorm ideas. Also, you don't need them to see you're blind, it would just distract from your presentation. In conversation, look more at the pamphlet if you are questioning where to look when talking about the pamphlet. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:21 PM To: Jobs for the Blind ; National Asociation of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is essential. I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but myself. Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. I appreciate any feedback you can offer. -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 17:31:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:31:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: <23370625E9EC42579670EDB149543ABE@OwnerPC> References: <23370625E9EC42579670EDB149543ABE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello, Loud voice and a very focused intent is important as well. Single out some steps and walk and spend all your focus there. This is where the cane may be a hindrance. I would use the cane very close to the body just to keep from running into the people. I'd memorize the sidewalk area. This is also part of social skills. We should get a sighted person in on this. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Hi Cindy, I had the same issue although I was inside standing by a table. My goal was to catch and engage students and other passers-by to stop at our table and donate to the cause and/or buy a sweet product; it was a bake sale. I found that I played a marginal role because I could not get their attention. I have some vision and can even make eye contact, but that is when the person is standing or sitting still. If they are rushing by me not looking to talk to me, I also find it hard to get their attention. Same issue when asking for help; by the time I ask a question, they have walked far enough away that they are not listening. The main advice I have is to perhaps hold up a sign about your cause. I also think this is where good nonverbal communication comes in. If someone showed you a motion for "come here" or something like that, maybe that would get their attention. Also, probably what you are wearing will help. Often, clothing does the talking. People just do not want to stop for random things. But if your clothes indicate your purpose, maybe they will have a look. So, will you be wearing a t shirt or hat or something to indicate you are a volunteer with this cause? If you have some wearable advertisement, this might help attract attention. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 12:21 AM To: Jobs for the Blind ; National Asociation of Blind Students Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is essential. I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but myself. Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. I appreciate any feedback you can offer. -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 17:32:08 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:32:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Message-ID: <505a01a0.c151420a.7641.5b3e@mx.google.com> 'm used to sighted people I've been around them my whole life. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> <17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 18:04:18 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:04:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com><17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <881E7AB04666423FB0A79988387FE07C@BrandonsLaptop2> Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and > NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to > be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or > a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles that > someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From hernandezlegorreta at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 18:10:20 2012 From: hernandezlegorreta at gmail.com (Conchita Hernandez Legorreta) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:10:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brandon Keith Biggs About your question about reading braille. You should try reading wtih more fingers. Using one finger at a time to read can be very slow. Also you need to make sure to read at least 10 pages every single day in order to get your speed up. The best answer is to just practice. But make sure to use both hands and more than one finger, that may be what is slowing you down. It will be a bit strange at first, but if you keep on practicing your fingers will get a better feel and start reading. Also, a way to read faster is to feel the shapes of the letters. Once you do that you can start to feel the shape of wholw sords. If you concentrate on individual letters you will not get faster. The shape of a word is a great way to go. And the way to learn this is to just practice and read a lot every day. Hope this helps. Conchita Hernandez On 9/19/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: JAWS 13 issues? (Katie Wang) > 2. Re: JAWS 13 issues? (Jewel) > 3. two questions about the ipad and the braillenote apex (vejas) > 4. Off Topic Trecker Breeze, used pac-mate, and Eyepal, and > Duxbury. (Trey Bradley) > 5. Re: JAWS 13 issues? (David Andrews) > 6. Speeding Up Reading? (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 7. Re: JAWS 13 issues? (Katie Wang) > 8. Re: JAWS 13 issues? (Sarah) > 9. Re: accessible phones (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 10. having a hard time fitting in at church (Andrew Edgcumbe) > 11. Re: accessible phones (Sarah) > 12. Re: accessible phones (Rania Ismail LMT) > 13. Re: social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > social gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 14. Re: social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 15. Re: social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > social gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 16. Re: social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 17. Re: social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > 18. Re: social norms: how we canfitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial > gatherings (Brandon Keith Biggs) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 13:49:56 -0400 > From: Katie Wang > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Arielle and all, > > I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google > is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 > will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so > going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best > option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and > everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell > out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do > everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still > be your best alternative! > > Katie > > > On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >> Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >> don't know if you can go back from IE9? >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >>>Hi Steve, >>>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>>Arielle >>> >>>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is fairly >>> > easy >>> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >>> > easy >>> > way >>> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >>> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >>> > will >>> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>> > >>> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >>> > caused >>> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>> > FireFox is another good option as well. >>> > >>> > Best regards, >>> > >>> > Steve Jacobson >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> > >>> >>Hi Jewel, >>> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>> >>boxes, please let me know. >>> >>Best, >>> >>Arielle >>> > >>> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jewel, >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >>> >>> never >>> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >>> >>> this >>> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting a >>> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >>> >>> from >>> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of more >>> >>> specific help! >>> >>> >>> >>> Katie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys, >>> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having say >>> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>> >>>> "Home, >>> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person >>> >>>> to >>> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Wondering, >>> >>>> Jewel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:42:19 -0400 > From: Jewel > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hey Katie, > Thank you so much for letting me know about that! I use Google search > and Gmail and Google groups and all, so not being able to use Google > services would be disasterous fir me! I think I'll put up with IE 9 > and hope they fix things > > You say everything works for you. I have the same set-up qas you > do...do you have any trouble with Bookshare? It's not showing the > Download button. I have a similar problem with BARD...not being able > to browse by author, title letter, or subject...those two things > really cut into my ability to find books and download them > independently. > > I tried re-upgrading my JAWS and that didn't work...what else should I > try, or should I write to someone about this, like Microsoft or > Freedom Scientific? > > Perplexed by this problem, > Jewel > > On 9/18/12, Katie Wang wrote: >> Hi Arielle and all, >> >> I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google >> is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 >> will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so >> going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best >> option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and >> everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell >> out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do >> everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still >> be your best alternative! >> >> Katie >> >> >> On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >>> don't know if you can go back from IE9? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >>>>Hi Steve, >>>>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>>>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>>>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>>>Arielle >>>> >>>>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is >>>> > fairly >>>> > easy >>>> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>>> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >>>> > easy >>>> > way >>>> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>>> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>>> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>>> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >>>> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>>> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >>>> > will >>>> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>>> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>>> > >>>> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >>>> > caused >>>> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>>> > FireFox is another good option as well. >>>> > >>>> > Best regards, >>>> > >>>> > Steve Jacobson >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> > >>>> >>Hi Jewel, >>>> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>>> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use IE >>>> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead of >>>> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>>> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>>> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>>> >>boxes, please let me know. >>>> >>Best, >>>> >>Arielle >>>> > >>>> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>>> >>> Hi Jewel, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >>>> >>> never >>>> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone else >>>> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>>> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >>>> >>> this >>>> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting >>>> >>> a >>>> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >>>> >>> from >>>> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>>> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of >>>> >>> more >>>> >>> specific help! >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Katie >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey guys, >>>> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more blanks >>>> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having >>>> >>>> say >>>> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>>> >>>> "Home, >>>> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>>> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted person >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I tried >>>> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is it >>>> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Wondering, >>>> >>>> Jewel >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 17:44:12 -0800 > From: vejas > To: braillenote at list.humanware.com, nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] two questions about the ipad and the braillenote > apex > Message-ID: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi All, > I'm starting to learn how to use my ipad with the braille note > apex as a keyboard. But there are 2 questions that I have. > First, how do you go forward a page when you are reading on > ibooks? A manual said it was space with o, but that actually > takes me to the braille note options menu. > Second, how do you capitalize in the beginning of a sentance? The > ipad only seems to capitalize words in the middle. Let's take > this sentence as an example: > They went to South Africa last month. > The ipad will automatically capitalize South Africa, but not > they. > Please if you could answer any of these questions, I'd greatly > aprreciate it. > Vejas > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 04:28:24 -0400 > From: Trey Bradley > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Off Topic Trecker Breeze, used pac-mate, and Eyepal, > and Duxbury. > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > As the subject says I have a Trecker Breeze in good shape for $450 > Used Pac-Mate $200 Duxbury $500, and Eyepal in good shape $750 you > can contact me at > > 219-789-7073 > > treyman19 at gmail.com > > -- > Roosevelt Bradley > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 05:58:28 -0400 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for GoogleDocs > services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it would > include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. > > Dave > > At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: >>Hi Arielle and all, >> >>I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google >>is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 >>will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so >>going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best >>option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and >>everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell >>out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do >>everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still >>be your best alternative! >> >>Katie >> >> >>On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >> > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >> > don't know if you can go back from IE9? >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >> >>Hi Steve, >> >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >> >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >> >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >> >>Arielle >> >> >> >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> >> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is >> >> > fairly >> >> > easy >> >> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >> >> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >> >> > easy >> >> > way >> >> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >> >> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >> >> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >> >> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu that >> >> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >> >> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. You >> >> > will >> >> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >> >> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >> >> > >> >> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this has >> >> > caused >> >> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >> >> > FireFox is another good option as well. >> >> > >> >> > Best regards, >> >> > >> >> > Steve Jacobson >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>Hi Jewel, >> >> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >> >> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use >> >> >> IE >> >> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead >> >> >> of >> >> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >> >> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >> >> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >> >> >>boxes, please let me know. >> >> >>Best, >> >> >>Arielle >> >> > >> >> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Jewel, >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >> >> >>> never >> >> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone >> >> >>> else >> >> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >> >> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >> >> >>> this >> >> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before attempting >> >> >>> a >> >> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >> >> >>> from >> >> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >> >> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of >> >> >>> more >> >> >>> specific help! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Katie >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >> >> >>>> Hey guys, >> >> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more >> >> >>>> blanks >> >> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having >> >> >>>> say >> >> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >> >> >>>> "Home, >> >> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >> >> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted >> >> >>>> person >> >> >>>> to >> >> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I >> >> >>>> tried >> >> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to try. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is >> >> >>>> it >> >> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Wondering, >> >> >>>> Jewel > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 15:26:26 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? > Message-ID: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D at BrandonsLaptop2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > I'm wondering if anyone has any articles, books or advice for speeding up my > > Braille reading? I'm at the point to where no matter how much I seem to > read, my reading is not getting any faster... > At the moment I'm reading with my left index finger and my right finger > takes over when lines don't have any really complicated words... I'm getting > > down the two hand split, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can > be working on? > I've read that sighted people tend to see words in pictures and they don't > actually read the whole word. In fact they look at a paragraph and get the > picture in their head and hardly notice any particular words at all. > I'm wondering if there is some way to do this with Braille? > The TVIs that I've talked to have not worked with their students to go past > > letter by letter reading. I'm really looking for a Braille reading technique > > book if anything exists on that... > Reading Braille doesn't feel like understanding speech at faster speeds > which is something I have been able to do with no guidance :) so I'm kind of > > at a loss. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:28:30 -0400 > From: Katie Wang > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Jewel, > > I'm equally perplexed by your problem-- I use both BARD and Bookshare > regularly, and neither site has ever given me any problems. I can't > think of anything else for you to try. Maybe it's time to give Freedom > Scientific tech support a call (727-803-8600) and see if they might > have any insights. Hope you will be able to get this issue resolved > soon! > > Katie > > > On 9/19/12, David Andrews wrote: >> Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for GoogleDocs >> services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it would >> include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. >> >> Dave >> >> At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: >>>Hi Arielle and all, >>> >>>I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that Google >>>is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that IE 8 >>>will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, so >>>going back to the older version of the browser may not be the best >>>option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 laptop and >>>everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to shell >>>out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do >>>everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might still >>>be your best alternative! >>> >>>Katie >>> >>> >>>On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: >>> > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but I >>> > don't know if you can go back from IE9? >>> > >>> > Dave >>> > >>> > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: >>> >>Hi Steve, >>> >>If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will this >>> >>windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I actually >>> >>tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support IE 8. >>> >>Arielle >>> >> >>> >>On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> >> > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is >>> >> > fairly >>> >> > easy >>> >> > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update >>> >> > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of no >>> >> > easy >>> >> > way >>> >> > to find it other than to arrow down through the list >>> >> > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" key, >>> >> > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to >>> >> > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu >>> >> > that >>> >> > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact >>> >> > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. >>> >> > You >>> >> > will >>> >> > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the >>> >> > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. >>> >> > >>> >> > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this >>> >> > has >>> >> > caused >>> >> > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using >>> >> > FireFox is another good option as well. >>> >> > >>> >> > Best regards, >>> >> > >>> >> > Steve Jacobson >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >>Hi Jewel, >>> >> >>Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've >>> >> >>encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to use >>> >> >> IE >>> >> >>9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox instead >>> >> >> of >>> >> >>IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has trouble >>> >> >>detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so if >>> >> >>anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and check >>> >> >>boxes, please let me know. >>> >> >>Best, >>> >> >>Arielle >>> >> > >>> >> >>On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: >>> >> >>> Hi Jewel, >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have >>> >> >>> never >>> >> >>> encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone >>> >> >>> else >>> >> >>> who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try >>> >> >>> reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance with >>> >> >>> this >>> >> >>> process since you will need to remove JAWS first before >>> >> >>> attempting >>> >> >>> a >>> >> >>> new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, but >>> >> >>> from >>> >> >>> past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't >>> >> >>> always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of >>> >> >>> more >>> >> >>> specific help! >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Katie >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: >>> >> >>>> Hey guys, >>> >> >>>> Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more >>> >> >>>> blanks >>> >> >>>> between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having >>> >> >>>> say >>> >> >>>> Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get >>> >> >>>> "Home, >>> >> >>>> blank, blank, blank, Other Link). >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some >>> >> >>>> buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted >>> >> >>>> person >>> >> >>>> to >>> >> >>>> click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I >>> >> >>>> tried >>> >> >>>> JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to >>> >> >>>> try. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is >>> >> >>>> it >>> >> >>>> just me? What can I do about this? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Wondering, >>> >> >>>> Jewel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:35:22 -0700 > From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > Message-ID: <5059d832.c6e1440a.5907.ffffb300 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Does anyone have Windows 8 yet? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Katie Wang To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:28:30 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS 13 issues? > > Hi Jewel, > > I'm equally perplexed by your problem-- I use both BARD and > Bookshare > regularly, and neither site has ever given me any problems. I > can't > think of anything else for you to try. Maybe it's time to give > Freedom > Scientific tech support a call (727-803-8600) and see if they > might > have any insights. Hope you will be able to get this issue > resolved > soon! > > Katie > > > On 9/19/12, David Andrews wrote: > Actually, what I read is that the dropped support was for > GoogleDocs > services. So, this might include mail, but I don't think it > would > include search--it is not a part of Google Docs. > > Dave > > At 01:49 PM 9/18/2012, you wrote: > Hi Arielle and all, > > I actually just came across a news story on-line stating that > Google > is dropping support for IE 8 after mid-November. This means that > IE 8 > will not work with any Google services, such as Search or Mail, > so > going back to the older version of the browser may not be the > best > option at this point. I use JAWS 13 and IE 9 on a Windows 7 > laptop and > everything works fine, but I understand that you may not want to > shell > out a few hundred dolloars for a JAWS upgrade if JAWS 11 can do > everything else you need. All things considered, Firefox might > still > be your best alternative! > > Katie > > > On 9/18/12, David Andrews wrote: > Windows 7 does support IE8, I use them together every day -- but > I > don't know if you can go back from IE9? > > Dave > > At 03:08 PM 9/17/2012, you wrote: > Hi Steve, > If I am using a Windows 7 machine with IE 9 installed on it, will > this > windows update trick still work? I don't think so because I > actually > tried installing IE 8 and was told that Windows 7 didn't support > IE 8. > Arielle > > On 9/17/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Another approach is to go back to Internet Explorer 8. This is > fairly > easy > to do. Go in to Windows Update and then go to Update > History and look for the Internet Explorer 9 update. I know of > no > easy > way > to find it other than to arrow down through the list > until you find it. Once you find it, press the "applications" > key, > sometimes called the "context" key which is usually just to > the left of the right control key. This should bring up a menu > that > includes "remove" or "uninstall." I don't remember the exact > wording. Press ENTER on that selection and follow any prompts. > You > will > not need to install IE 8 again because removing the > update to IE 9 rolls back to IE 8. > > There were major changes to how IE 9 displays web pages and this > has > caused > some problems for screen readers. Certainly using > FireFox is another good option as well. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 12:52:03 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi Jewel, > Are you using Internet Explorer 9? I have JAWS 11 still, but I've > encountered the exact same problems you describe when I try to > use > IE > 9. I don't believe there's a fix yet except to use Firefox > instead > of > IE on pages that have buttons or check boxes since JAWS has > trouble > detecting them with IE 9. I too am frustrated by this problem so > if > anyone has figured out how to make IE 9 work with buttons and > check > boxes, please let me know. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/17/12, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi Jewel, > > I don't believe that this is a known issue with JAWS 13- I have > never > encountered this problem myself nor heard about it from anyone > else > who uses the program. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to try > reinstalling JAWS 13? You might need some sighted assistance > with > this > process since you will need to remove JAWS first before > attempting > a > new installation and I'm not sure if it would fix your issue, > but > from > past experience JAWS upgrades can be finicky sometimes and don't > always install properly. Just a suggestion- Sorry I can't be of > more > specific help! > > Katie > > > On 9/17/12, Jewel wrote: > Hey guys, > Ever since I upgraded to JAWS 13, I have noticed a lot more > blanks > between text (of any kind, link or non-link). Instead of having > say > Home, and then I arrow down and it goes to the next link, I get > "Home, > blank, blank, blank, Other Link). > > Another issue I have found is that it seems to be missing some > buttons. For example, in Bookshare, I have to get a sighted > person > to > click the "Download" button, because JAWS doesn't read it. I > tried > JAWS cursor, and that was no good. I don't know what else to > try. > > Does anyone know if this is a known problem with JAWS 13, or is > it > just me? What can I do about this? > > Wondering, > Jewel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%4 > 0gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:43:01 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > 99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Gloria, > I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the > I Phone and you do not want one. > If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much > more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it > has when you won't use it. > > I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, > so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming > call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as > you dial; I think that is all is voiced. > > The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being > made. > You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about > accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it > talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. > Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on > it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? > If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. > > I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last > time > I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found > accessible > phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold > online. > So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all > accessible, but the major functions of it would be. > And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. > Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you > can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 10:49:56 -0400 > From: Andrew Edgcumbe > To: nabs-l > Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:53:18 -0700 > From: Sarah > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Message-ID: <5059dc66.e7ea440a.4862.ffffc198 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > I am getting an Iphone soon. I would reccomend the Haven I've > never had it but I hear it's very accessible. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:43:01 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hello, > 99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not > accessible. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Gloria, > I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are > recommending the > I Phone and you do not want one. > If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone > is so much > more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service > and all it > has when you won't use it. > > I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it > hardly talks, > so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an > incoming > call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the > numbers as > you dial; I think that is all is voiced. > > The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its > still being > made. > You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff > about > accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word > that it > talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. > Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make > calls on > it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? > If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. > > I think companies really should do more to make accessible > phones. Last time > I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found > accessible > phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was > sold online. > So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was > not all > accessible, but the major functions of it would be. > And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. > Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? > If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I > have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible > or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for > any help you > can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:03:54 -0300 > From: "Rania Ismail LMT" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > Message-ID: <776A94F604F94976A62172E152792885 at userPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > What do you mean that part of the Haven is not accessable? I am able to > change the settings of that if I want. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:43 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hello, > 99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Gloria, > I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the > I Phone and you do not want one. > If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much > more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it > has when you won't use it. > > I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, > so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming > call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as > you dial; I think that is all is voiced. > > The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being > made. > You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about > accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it > talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. > Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on > it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? > If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. > > I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last > time > I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found > accessible > phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold > online. > So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all > accessible, but the major functions of it would be. > And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. > Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria G > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > > Hi all, > I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is > it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had > situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has > speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you > can give. > Gloria > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co > m > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:04:55 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyat social gatherings > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > Unfortunately to change attitudes you need to be excepted. > Considering many blind folks are just novices at the rules of the sighted > world (Especially the congenitally blind), even years of lessons may not get > > them to the level to where they would be distressed. > Also, lots of the stress is because sighted people themselves are unsure of > > the rules themselves. If someone purposely breaks a rule once or twice to > get what they want, it is seen as brave. If they break the rules all the > time, it is seen as weird. I totally believe men and women should learn the > > social norms for men and women. For example, men do not go around sitting in > > the splits. They save the splits for dance only. Also, there are rules for > different body types. I'm sure there are many generalities that will hold > true for many circumstance, and many of the rules will only be ways of > communicating different information. For example, Guys should not wear very > > tight, stretchy pants with a shorter shirt unless they want to convey how > big and... muscular they are. > But frankly, again, most blind people once worked past their kinetic > oddities, will be much more excepted in the world. > For example, I'm trying really hard now to stop snapping my retainers, > because I guess it really creeps people out... :( > Once people learn the rules, they will be able to label anything new that > pops up and work to remove the odd mannerism from their actions. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Workman > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 7:37 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our > sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does > > that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, > abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, that they > are the product of sighted people simply aping one another, and that they > are arbitrary. I believe that such unwritten rules often needlessly cause > huge amounts of anxiety, self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, particularly around > > the subject of so called "blindisms, and I put that term in quotes as a way > > of acknowledging that it is pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line > by anyone who is interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are accepted > and respected not simply to the extent that they can look and act like > sighted people, but on the grounds that they are human beings possessing > dignity and as equally worthy of respect as sighted people. The message > shouldn't be, "hey, we can follow your rules, so you should accept us". > Instead, the message should be, "we, like you, have many talents and > weaknesses, feel pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting into sighted > > society. We are constantly policing one another's behaviour. Probably one of > > the more obvious examples of this has to do with gender. There are hundreds > > if not thousands of mostly unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and > how real men ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the result is > often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, or chooses not to, > conform. These gender rules are just as arbitrary as those around > sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort similarly should be to relax and > remove such rules, not to more explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls > > the so called right way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform does > unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed social, volunteer, > and employment opportunities. So I don't judge or condemn anyone who makes a > > serious effort to learn the unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I > don't judge someone who wants to spend all of his or her time reading > medical journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being blind > in the particular society in which we live, and conforming can make things a > > little bit easier. But I still think we should work more on changing > attitudes and less on teaching blind people how to look and act like sighted > > people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if >> we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, >> >> I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect >> the actual topic of Brandon's message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional >> seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the >> sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB >> leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched >> >> on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the >> >> parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and >> >> how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best >> >> we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more >> important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or >> want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our >> communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> >> which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very >> adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the >> vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind >> people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted >> people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then >> >> it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become >> first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing >> already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, >> perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS >> membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe sex. There >> >> is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or not) >> have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against the >> grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has suggested >> that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted world >> thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world looks at >> a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him and >> when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something really weird >> and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but both >> sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of >> attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that aren't >> meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a >> box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:41:24 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > Message-ID: <6F8D22BD1ED942BDB7A9D449AB7BCB7B at BrandonsLaptop2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > This is not really the idea. You are talking of stereotypes, we are talking > > about rules. It is more like women should not ask the guy on the date unless > > they wanted to be labeled as forward. Women should be free to hug and touch > > as much as they want for affection, but guys should leave their social > touching to be used for great effect. > In America it isn't that odd for women to kiss women if they are both best > friends, but guys should not kiss one another unless they are from a > different culture (French or something) where they have a special way of > kissing on both cheeks, or want to be seen as gay. > > Stereotypical ideas of being a stay at home mom, finding a man who has a job > > and what not is more a lifestyle choice that says something about you being > > a go-getter or not. > Frankly though, some stay at home parents are pretty amazing. Now with the > advenchan of the internet, stay at home moms or dads can work from the home > > if they want, they are often leaders in PTAs, are very big in politics and > do unbelievable amounts of things that working people could never do. But it > > is only a reflection of one's personality. How willing is one to doggedly > search for answers to questions, learn new things, attend appointments, get > > up in the morning and actually get things done rather than falling into the > > pointless actions of playing games, watching TV, sitting and reading books > or listening to the radio. > Of course people can multi task and often times that is what people do, but > > again that takes discipline and many people don't have much of it. > But it wouldn't heart to menschen the image that being a stay at home parent > > gives vs. working and the image marrying a man with a good job gives vs. > not. Other than that it is personal choice like always. But because we > aren't able to see bodies, I believe bodily and early adolescent and College > > behavioral norms should be studied first. > (I don't know anyone except for very old people, who think women should not > > go into STEM... Some of the most world changing discoveries strictly came > from women, especially in astronomy. (Has anyone heard of stars being more > than 60 thousand light years away? That was because of a woman... :) > I think the largest stereotype we need to break is that: > Blind people look blind, are odd, helpless, can't work, don't do anything > impressive except for the inspirations, shouldn't be displayed in public as > > standards of excellence, are ugly, are not safe, can't handle stairs and are > > not acceptable in the sighted world except under the label of blind. > Blindness is only an inconvenience when you don't look blind, otherwise it > is a label. > I have met people who are convinced that I'm not blind. I've gone into > auditions where people have no idea that I'm blind till I ask them if they > have questions about my blindness. This is what it means for blindness to be > > an inconvenience. Oh yeah, by the way, I'm blind... "You're blind? Really? > You don't look blind..." > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:47:41 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyat social gatherings > Message-ID: <17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53 at BrandonsLaptop2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:53:39 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > Message-ID: <3E46F6FAE20E49D39090834344E12B0F at BrandonsLaptop2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > I think our problem is we are erm... blind... > It would be amazingly helpful if we got a sighted TVI to come in and give us > > their thoughts. > We should make the list and then I can give the TVIs I know a ping. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > > Chris, > Be careful about spouting off ideas and perhaps preaching. I suppose not > conforming makes us look weird, > incompetent and abnormal. But just what do you want a seminar to be? > No, I don't think this topic lends itself to a conference call. Just > exactly > how would you convey the info? If we are going to discuss fashion or how to > act this is best done by modeling. We need to be shown and have > descriptions. So it has to be hands on and a phone conference just doesn't > do this well IMO. > > Also, Chris since you are young and used college social gatherings as an > example of fitting in, I wanted to inform you that > gatherings are rather informal. I doubt there are many unspoken rules > there; > I'm pretty perceptive and I even asked other students about the scene > privately afterward. They dress like college students on campus which > generally means with t shirts and blue jeans. Some students wear t shirts > and athletic style shorts. Some dress in v neck or collared shirts. Most > students wear sneakers or sandles depending partly on weather and confort. > > The main rules I see are those followed anywhere a group gathers, rules of > respecting each other. Rules such as if there is food, wait your turn for > it > to be passed or wait in line, depends on how the food is handled. For > instance at my bible study meetings. we passed food around the room on a > plate or set it on the little coffee table in the middle of the room for > people to walk to. > Rules also included talking in an indoor voice since other activities often > were going on in other rooms, > listening to each other, do not cut others off, waiting your turn to speak, > and don't leave early unless you have somewhere important to go. Oh, and no > assigned seating; first come, first served. > > I mention this so you don't have the impression that social gatherings are > these formal times with many procedures and policies to follow. Social > gatherings are simple a place to get together and have fun and share > information; they are just that-- to socialize. > Other than common curtesy, I cannot think of many unspoken rules. Now if > you > go to other more formal settings, big difference! > A church, restaurant, a cocktail party, a reception, a more formal dance > are > examples of more formal unspoken rules in those settings. > > If we did a seminar, we would have to point out that these norms pertain to > particular settings. What is acceptable one place is not in another. I > struggle to find out norms in places too. I might have to ask someone and > listen more to find out what is going on. > It seems to me that sighted people learn new norms by observation and for > me > it takes a few times of observing a situation to figure out a pattern and > discern their norms. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted society > atsocial gatherings > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, > as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought > up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed > the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against > the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him > and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of > attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would > greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, > an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:13:13 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > Message-ID: <1C65EED823E84228A561FC25BF8D1EED at BrandonsLaptop2> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > I run on my own all the time... > If one is in the city it is best to find a track, but I lived in the country > > growing up and I just ran along back roads, making sure I wasn't in the way > > of the big tractors. > This is something the social list can deal with as well. It is a stereotype > > that blind people need guides to ride bikes or run... I only started tandem > > biking now I live in the city and there is way too much traffic and stop > lights for me to memorize. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > > Desiree, > That's too bad. I wonder what sort of basis your parents had to tell you > such things. It sounds like they did not know successful blind people. It > sounds like they did not support you in your quest to grow. Those are > really > put downs-- to tell someone they will grow up to be worthless. As for fat, > that does have an element of truth. Most blind people I encounter are > physically inactive and yes are overweight. Its harder for us to be active > as we need a partner to run or bike outside. Fitness machines are getting > fancier with screens to set up the equipment. > You have to memorize what button does what to operate those lovely cardio > machines. > > Anyway, on the subject of self esteem and being worth something, you have > to > find your niche and be around people. Social skills develop via experience. > I still haven't figured out how to join an existing conversation without > cutting someone else off. I can better join a conversation of two people; > any more than that, its hard to jump in it. > You can definitely grow up to be worth something. Following norms is just > one part of fitting in. Other factors include having something to give in > the friendship, being a pleasant person and living in a place where you can > travel around. Arielle already mentioned that one. > One more thing is that I think we need to create opportunities for > ourselves > to use our abilities and show the community what we can do. So joining a > non > blindness club or volunteering with an organization you like will help out > a > lot. You will be more well rounded then and get experience while increasing > self esteem. > > Take care. > Ashley > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:01 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyat > social gatherings > > Hi Arielle, > Yes, you certainly made a lot of sense to me. What we all should be > taking away from your message is that none of us has the right to pass > judgment on another just because we should feel that someone else, > whether we know them in real life or not, is making the so-called > "blind community" look bad. yes, I put that in quotes, because you > know what? I don't believe it exists. We are all individuals who are > perhaps bonded by the common trait of seeing less than those in > society who are deemed to see more than us. But again, seeing is > relative. Some supposedly sighted people are shallow, while blind" > people can be wise, deep, meaningful or any other emotional adjective > you can apply to soul searching, if you will. So, sighted people see > the physical world in which they live every day, and of course many of > them can be good people, just as blind people can be, well, shallow > and uninformed. But that's the beauty of it: just because we have > nonfunctional eyes, or eyes that maybe don't work as well as others, > doesn't mean we should be treated as second class citizens, nor should > we criticize others for what they lack. I can think of many things I > lack, or lacked in the past tense, but would have been considered > normal for everyone to know at the time, and I had to hide for fear of > what people would think of me if I revealed what I didn't know. When I > was growing up, I longed to know someone who wouldn't judge me. I > wanted more than anything to not be put down for things i didn't know. > I wished my parents didn't say things about how I would grow up to be > fat and worthless like most other blind people. I wish that people > hadn't given up on me before I even knew what I was capable of, > because as a result of that, I have no clue what I'm capable of now. I > guess that's why I wish I could reach out to others who are in that > position now, because I know how painful it is, and no, maybe I > haven't fully gotten over my own past, but that doesn't mean I don't > know anything. > > On 9/15/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted society" >> is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, >> attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no >> religious or political differences, no unique languages, cultures, >> customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many >> subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not >> killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs relating to >> dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ >> between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a culture >> (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in >> Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from lawyers >> etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of >> nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I believe that >> blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to make >> informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not follow, >> just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or to work >> even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, there >> are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like everybody >> else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, or >> "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we need >> to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for specific >> situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is >> probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, if I am >> doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can probably >> get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if most >> of the other people there are wearing suits. >> I do think it is useful to give blind students information about how >> they can learn about the norms present in their particular culture, >> i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to read >> about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum for >> students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how to >> blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that >> preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in does >> much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, and >> again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to come to >> these decisions for ourselves. >> Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind folks >> who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and sighted >> alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, we need >> to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social >> makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human beings >> with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I >> always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood subset of >> the blind community because in some ways I am part of that group. I >> spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, >> struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal with >> lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting eye >> contact. Because of these things some may say I look more "blind" than >> the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful graduate >> student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed relationship. >> In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of blending in >> and of how "different" I look at times, because this was emphasized to >> me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and I >> have still not determined if the problems I have with posture and >> balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I was >> learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination >> impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to the >> fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at someone's face >> when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look up >> toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it takes >> a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I end >> up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I have >> been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye >> contact. Some others in our community have additional disabilities or >> mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition >> practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to offer in >> their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits like >> these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any better or >> being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all >> members of our community have strengths and abilities of their own, >> even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and we >> should do what we can to empower these people instead of using them as >> examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope that >> made some sense. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:45:26 -0700 > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we > canfitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Hello, > Beth, It may be good to consider becoming vegetarian as I spend maybe $130 > max a month on food if I'm buying extra desserts and whatnot. > It is a good idea to memorize the food groups, write out a menu for 2 weeks > > and make sure you have everything for those two weeks . Go shopping once a > week. > Here in CA I'm living pretty well off of SSI and I'm living in my own master > > sweet. I believe it is a funny thought that white bred, premade drinks and > rommin is cheaper. Wheat Bred counts as a grain, especially if it has seeds > > in it where as white bread is little more than air. Mixed drinks are only > cheep if gotten at Costco. Otherwise it is best to get frozen cans and mix > the drinks yourself. > Attached is my food menu for anyone who wants to take a look... I do mix and > > mach and frankly I haven't eaten the fried stuff once, so this is a basic > guideline. > (Also, I eat 2 or so boles of serial a day with frozen berries on the top > and I don't buy serial with less than 4 grams of fiber because anything less > > than that will lead to constipation and an empty stomach around 12 or 1. I > also don't buy cows milk because it doesn't last very long, doesn't have the > > properties of whole milk and leaves me feeling not the best in the > afternoon, so I go soy. If I'm feeling creative I also make siniman bread or > > eggs and hash browns or pancakes, but serial is most of the time. > Attached is my food list and menu. Please excuse my spelling, I like to > amuse my parents and Italian is better for my sanity than English :) :P. > Also, this is something my Daily living instructor did with me from DOR. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:25 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we > canfitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Yes some of them have drinks. That is a tough situation with rising grocery > prices and reduced food stamps. > I don't know why they'd reduce food stamps in this climate with inflation. > I > know there's more to the story wich is too personal. > You could probably get assistance from some nonprofit or mosque. Maybe nfb > members in your area would loan you money if you were bold enough to ask > them. > > Hope you can find a way to obtain necessities. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:19 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can > fitinwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Do they have drinks at a food pantry? Sodas? Juices? I can't > afford it all. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit > inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Beth, > Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't > want to get > too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and > don't hesitate > to use them. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in > withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Very good and well said, Arielle. I already have counseling and > therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such > fun of me and call me a drama queen. That's what I get for > trying to be a little girl when I was four. Life isn't rainbows > and bunnies I know. And I'm livingfb proof of it. Life is NOT > one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough. I have > counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to > be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors, > and my food stamps went down. Idk how to deal with those human > services people and I go humgry. All because I can't get a place > to live, a job, etc. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Hi all, > Firstly, Beth and Desiree, I am truly sorry to hear about the > things > your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and > conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is > totally > unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing > your > love life or with playing princess games when you were little and > those things don't even have anything to do with your being > blind. If > you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help > you > cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still > affecting you today. > Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you > will > end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These > statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't > possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you > have > learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can > accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear > that > you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I > hope > that you will get to know some other blind people a little better > so > that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are > capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB > function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives > near > you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are > the > best defense against the kinds of negative messages about > blindness > and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point. > The > best way to discover what you are good at, and what you enjoy > doing, > is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your > beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of > people who > don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in > blind > people. > Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a > lot > about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around > us. > While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted, > it > doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being > accepted is to move to a different community or a different > situation > whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean > spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might > mean > moving to a place that has better public transportation so that > the > fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as > much. Or, > it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual > abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc. > I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted > women > around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen > years > my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even > requiring) > me to dress nicely, do fancy things with my hair and wear > makeup. I > also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several > medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective. > There > were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was > required > to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to > attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to > be > accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that > it > wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and > enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few > weeks > later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother > micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided > that all > sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth > my > time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I > started > letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and > spent > all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know > at > the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow > really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once > I > grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a > few > sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the > facials > and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really > didn't > belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it > (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was > also > about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be > accepted without having to change much of who I am. > I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might > be > happier in a different environment--a different part of the > country, > attending college or volunteering with peers who share our > interests, > or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually > believe > that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind > adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments. > The > family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind > adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still > over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the > house is > far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build > blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have > the > means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step > toward > building a life of your own design. > I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility > as > far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen > and > cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for > clubs > to join with people in them who share your interests and views. > And I > would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know > blind > people, both those your age and those who are older who can > mentor > you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but > you > may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by > blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted > people. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl wrote: > Good morning all, > My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is > on a topic > we are discussing. That is the topic of posture. I thought of > this since > posture is a issue for us as blind people. > There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back > pain. I bring > this up because bad back pain from surgical operations. Many > back > conditions, cause one to have bad posture. I have really bad > posture since > I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant. > The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga, > Reky. > Wright me off-list for more information. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT" > wrote: > > I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is > working > on > that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your > posture is > another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in > yoga. > Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving > range of > motion > so you can learn how to move and change your posture. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM > To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting > a > massage > Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyats.. could help ocial gatherings > > Arielle, > I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching. > I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation. > We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to > feel that > every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social > gatherings, > particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal. > > If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based, > modeling, and > > question and answer. People could even submit questions > anonymously for > the > discussion part. > What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad > feels that > blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove > each other > > aside, and sadly this is partly true. > Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being > courteous and > blending in. > You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics > like > manners, what to do when you greet a new person, > how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing > tips, > nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of > fidgiting. > Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of > fidgiting > or > self stimulation that are. > > We want to come across as approachable and nice people. > Nonverbal > communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a > chronic issue, > > one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying > coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a > physical > theripist > if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having > correct > posture. > > My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have > visual > stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent > over at > the > shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is > that blind > kids > > were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually, > this affects > > posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles > can shorten, > > lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed. > > I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye > contact. I have > > some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start > their > nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing > is my > parents > > tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but > its > simply > that I'm looking around to see what I can. > Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks > worked on > that > as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for > balance > probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me > to stop > rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not > realize I'm > doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do > it. But I > > won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think > about > rather > > than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and > is my head > > still. > > > I think its important for us to find out about norms and find > out where to > > find such information. The seminar should include that. Online > resources > about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people > around us is > > another, and > finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are > existing > videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this. > Maybe AFB > or > APH would have something, or maybe a video with good > descriptions exists > for > > the general audience. I don't know. > > Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn > gestures. > Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher > to teach > me > > this. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > Hi all, > I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted > society" > is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms, > attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no > religious or political differences, no unique languages, > cultures, > customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many > subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not > killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs > relating to > dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ > between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a > culture > (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco than they do in > Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from > lawyers > etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of > nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I > believe that > blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to > make > informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not > follow, > just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or > to work > even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course, > there > are consequences for failing to "blend in" and look like > everybody > else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this, > or > "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we > need > to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for > specific > situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is > probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However, > if I am > doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can > probably > get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if > most > of the other people there are wearing suits. > I do think it is useful to give blind students information about > how > they can learn about the norms present in their particular > culture, > i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to > read > about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum > for > students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how > to > blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that > preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in > does > much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident, > and > again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to > come to > these decisions for ourselves. > Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind > folks > who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and > sighted > alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences, > we need > to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social > makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human > beings > with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I > always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood > subset of > the blind community because in some ways I am part of that > group. I > spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate, > struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal > with > lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting > eye > contact. Because of these things some may say I look more > "blind" than > the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful > graduate > student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed > relationship. > In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of > blending in > and of how "different" I look at times, because this was > emphasized to > me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and > I > have still not determined if the problems I have with posture > and > balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I > was > learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination > impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to > the > fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at > someone's face > when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look > up > toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it > takes > a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I > end > up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I > have > been told hundreds of times how important it is to attempt eye > contact. Some others in our community have additional > disabilities or > mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition > practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to > offer in > their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits > like > these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any > better or > being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all > members of our community have strengths and abilities of their > own, > even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and > we > should do what we can to empower these people instead of using > them as > examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope > that > made some sense. > Best, > Arielle > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink. > net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04 > %40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm > ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 > 0earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Meal Menu.doc > Type: application/msword > Size: 24064 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: List of food staples.doc > Type: application/msword > Size: 26624 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 28 > ************************************** > -- Conchita Hernandez María de la Concepción Hernández Legorreta From clb5590 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:05:58 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:05:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to clarify, I would not be allowed to move from my spot and approach people. C indy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:28 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > When you want to talk to someone, start walking toward them and possibly look a little forward or what not. > It would be interesting to go on a trial run with a sighted person and have the sighted person do the first couple handouts and you do a couple and if there is some difficulty have the sighted person review what happened and help you brainstorm ideas. > Also, you don't need them to see you're blind, it would just distract from your presentation. In conversation, look more at the pamphlet if you are questioning where to look when talking about the pamphlet. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:21 PM > To: Jobs for the Blind ; National Asociation of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. > > Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at > blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where > I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations > change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage > passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the > cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very > good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the > conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some > advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when > they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will > be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my > experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, > by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person > realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a > few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people > sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize > that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on > their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I > had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict > fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is > essential. > > I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people > at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position > really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but > myself. > > Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some > great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the > director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long > term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some > concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short > time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. > > I appreciate any feedback you can offer. > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:16:55 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 19:24:48 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:24:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings In-Reply-To: <881E7AB04666423FB0A79988387FE07C@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com> <17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53@BrandonsLaptop2> <881E7AB04666423FB0A79988387FE07C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv called "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both names imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that there is only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people both. I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a nonjudgmental forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations and get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a place where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. Also, while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast majority of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep teachers and authority figures to a minimum. I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or "blind-dating" perhaps. If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd be happy to help out with it. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 20:23:40 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:23:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B344D4E9A8B47C5893BF42DF176A998@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, The Canvassers I have seen walk in a 20 foot area around their area, so I mean walk from that. It isn't really like a table where you are stationary all the time. But again the good canvassers I have run into literally are in front of me, so I have to almost run into them to get by. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. Just to clarify, I would not be allowed to move from my spot and approach people. C indy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:28 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: > Hello, > When you want to talk to someone, start walking toward them and possibly > look a little forward or what not. > It would be interesting to go on a trial run with a sighted person and > have the sighted person do the first couple handouts and you do a couple > and if there is some difficulty have the sighted person review what > happened and help you brainstorm ideas. > Also, you don't need them to see you're blind, it would just distract from > your presentation. In conversation, look more at the pamphlet if you are > questioning where to look when talking about the pamphlet. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:21 PM > To: Jobs for the Blind ; National Asociation of Blind Students > Subject: [nabs-l] Question about canvassing. > > Most of my in-person fundraising experience has occurred at > blindness-related events. But now I have a potential opportunity where > I would canvas. This means that I would stand on a street, locations > change on a daily basis, and it is my responsibility to engage > passersby about a cause in the hopes of signing up members of the > cause and therefore raising money. My conversation skills are very > good, and I am also good at gaging peoples’ interest once the > conversation has started. But I have some fears that I would love some > advice about. Typically, canvassers make eye contact with people when > they are about 30 feet away. My first alert that anyone is around will > be talking or footsteps. Just from my own observations from my > experience when I need to ask a question on the street, often times, > by the time I have finished my question and by the time the person > realizes that I have engaged them in conversation, they are actually a > few steps past me. So, do you have any strategies for engaging people > sooner? This may not be an issue since the person will quickly realize > that I am blind, but it will also be easier for them to continue on > their way without speaking to me whereas they may have stopped if I > had engaged them before they pass me. This position has strict > fundraising quotas, so engaging people in conversation properly is > essential. > > I am so used to having a table to use as a center for engaging people > at events the NFB has done in public, but I feel that this position > really relies on me as a person since I don’t have anything else but > myself. > > Even though this opportunity is not ideal, I think I could learn some > great skills, and it is immediately available because I know the > director of the office. But it is also not something I want to do long > term. So if I accept it as and opportunity, I want to have some > concrete methods for attempting to do the job successfully so my short > time there can be profitable for the causes and for myself. > > I appreciate any feedback you can offer. > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Sep 19 20:28:32 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:28:32 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505a01a0.c151420a.7641.5b3e@mx.google.com> References: <505a01a0.c151420a.7641.5b3e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: LOL! Me too! Welcome to the list! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sarah [coastergirl92 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings 'm used to sighted people I've been around them my whole life. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" I agree, Brandon. If we do not know any of the unwritten social rules, it will be hard for us to get jobs and/or live a normal life. It is important to behave normally and appropriately. If we want to change people's attitudes about blindness, we have to prove that we have the ability to blend in, to act appropriately. This does not mean that we should kill ourselves to fit in, or that we should comply with the sighted definition of beauty if it goes against our own values. For instance, I do not wear makeup because frankly, I have more important things to do. Behaving normally is more important than spending hours and hours trying to look like a supermodel. I make sure that all my outfits match, because if they didn't, I would look weird and they would think, "That blind girl can't even pick out her own clothes." Also, if you have any intention of attracting a member of the opposite sex, you must look presentable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <5053f497.0837650a.7141.0f56@mx.google.com><17DE310BE78D4B659AB847750CB47F53@BrandonsLaptop2><881E7AB04666423FB0A79988387FE07C@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Hello, There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out cultures. For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in conversation. It is only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar or more heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso almost always. Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all cultures. A smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, big eyes with mouth a little open is startled or scared. Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in front facing up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a balloon and the string is on your finger... Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because it means one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, glee club, getting in a relationship, dating... I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted world without some sighted help. Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more blind people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or parents will help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and with questions like this they are invaluable... Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over your heart, as if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are terrified of something? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings Hi all, Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv called "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both names imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that there is only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people both. I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a nonjudgmental forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations and get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a place where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. Also, while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast majority of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep teachers and authority figures to a minimum. I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or "blind-dating" perhaps. If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd be happy to help out with it. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 20:49:28 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:49:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Message-ID: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 21:01:17 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:01:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505a2e9a.0ad5640a.39fe.6172@mx.google.com> References: <505a2e9a.0ad5640a.39fe.6172@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Some of the most beautiful women I know don't wear makeup except for weddings and whatnot. But I'm not sure that these kinds of questions will even come up. It would be really interesting if we were at a party and unknowingly some sighted TVIs were walking around talking and observing people and that way we could get pointers in a real environment. Because what happens is blind people do non acceptable things without even thinking about it or realizing that it isn't acceptable. For example, I had no idea that it looks weird to always be sitting strait on the edge of my seat. I was told that it makes me look like I have a chip up my behind... I can expound on the benefits of sitting strait all the time, but regardless, it is weird. So I have to find a way to sit strait without always being on the edge of my seat. Also, when I was learning posture, I would get into a position where my Adam's apple would stick way out and people said it made me look like a chicken... :) So I believe the most important part of this list will be that we can ask questions where both sighted and non sighted people alike can answer questions. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sophie Trist Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:43 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings I agree, Brandon. If we do not know any of the unwritten social rules, it will be hard for us to get jobs and/or live a normal life. It is important to behave normally and appropriately. If we want to change people's attitudes about blindness, we have to prove that we have the ability to blend in, to act appropriately. This does not mean that we should kill ourselves to fit in, or that we should comply with the sighted definition of beauty if it goes against our own values. For instance, I do not wear makeup because frankly, I have more important things to do. Behaving normally is more important than spending hours and hours trying to look like a supermodel. I make sure that all my outfits match, because if they didn't, I would look weird and they would think, "That blind girl can't even pick out her own clothes." Also, if you have any intention of attracting a member of the opposite sex, you must look presentable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Hello, This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have never seen a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without having to be embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any condoms in the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was browsing... Condoms, lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also probably need to provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on a condom or use a dental dam. Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The packing guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I for one don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places that sell hot serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to buy a box for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... (Then of course we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't bring their own utensil's). Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB convention... Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even braille them so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: From: Carly Mihalakis , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I also hate it when a pastor pushes you aside if you are not healed and things like that. I feel that god has willed us to have our blindness until us who are christians go to heaven. On 9/19/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're > autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They > seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I > attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a > time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on > the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much > ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you > tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe > wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and > things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me > and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each > other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often > left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all > together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going > out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com > From andrewjedg at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 21:14:48 2012 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew Edgcumbe) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:14:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I find it very hard to hang out with people at my church the people the young people seem very clickish and things. I feel like i just get left out of events or activities. i don't get to do much with any of the young people. On 9/19/12, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > I also hate it when a pastor pushes you aside if you are not healed > and things like that. I feel that god has willed us to have our > blindness until us who are christians go to heaven. > > > > On 9/19/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I >> attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a >> time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much >> ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you >> tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >> wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >> things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >> and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >> other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >> left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >> together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >> out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Sep 19 21:27:41 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:27:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5059dc66.e7ea440a.4862.ffffc198@mx.google.com> References: <5059dc66.e7ea440a.4862.ffffc198@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I heard good things about the haven. But didn't verizon discontinue it? -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:53 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones I am getting an Iphone soon. I would reccomend the Haven I've never had it but I hear it's very accessible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" Message-ID: While it has been a while since I have been in that environment, when I have been in positions of having observers tell me what I was doing right or wrong it was not that helpful in the end. There is a tendency for anyone observing to judge and provide input according to their specific standards while the standards among sighted people varies greatly. The answer is somewhere between trying to conform to a hard and fast standard and ignoring them. It is good to be aware of things that might put people off and be aware of things one might do thinking they are not observed when they are. However, each of us is an individual and part of what we might do right or wrong is what makes us an individual. I believe the most important thing we can do is to be observant ourselves as to what goes on around us and how we are received. We need to realize that we have things to learn about social interactions, but also that not all difficulties arise because we have done something wrong. Some are simply not going to be comfortable with us as blind people because of their experiences. I don't think counting on a TVI is the answer. We are best off consulting a friend whose values we understand and who we can trust. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:01:17 -0700, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: >Some of the most beautiful women I know don't wear makeup except for >weddings and whatnot. >But I'm not sure that these kinds of questions will even come up. >It would be really interesting if we were at a party and unknowingly some >sighted TVIs were walking around talking and observing people and that way >we could get pointers in a real environment. >Because what happens is blind people do non acceptable things without even >thinking about it or realizing that it isn't acceptable. >For example, I had no idea that it looks weird to always be sitting strait >on the edge of my seat. >I was told that it makes me look like I have a chip up my behind... >I can expound on the benefits of sitting strait all the time, but >regardless, it is weird. So I have to find a way to sit strait without >always being on the edge of my seat. >Also, when I was learning posture, I would get into a position where my >Adam's apple would stick way out and people said it made me look like a >chicken... :) >So I believe the most important part of this list will be that we can ask >questions where both sighted and non sighted people alike can answer >questions. >Thanks, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Sophie Trist >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:43 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >I agree, Brandon. If we do not know any of the unwritten social >rules, it will be hard for us to get jobs and/or live a normal >life. It is important to behave normally and appropriately. If we >want to change people's attitudes about blindness, we have to >prove that we have the ability to blend in, to act appropriately. >This does not mean that we should kill ourselves to fit in, or >that we should comply with the sighted definition of beauty if it >goes against our own values. For instance, I do not wear makeup >because frankly, I have more important things to do. Behaving >normally is more important than spending hours and hours trying >to look like a supermodel. I make sure that all my outfits match, >because if they didn't, I would look weird and they would think, >"That blind girl can't even pick out her own clothes." Also, if >you have any intention of attracting a member of the opposite >sex, you must look presentable. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 08:04:55 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted societyatsocial gatherings >Hello, >Unfortunately to change attitudes you need to be excepted. >Considering many blind folks are just novices at the rules of the >sighted >world (Especially the congenitally blind), even years of lessons >may not get >them to the level to where they would be distressed. >Also, lots of the stress is because sighted people themselves are >unsure of >the rules themselves. If someone purposely breaks a rule once or >twice to >get what they want, it is seen as brave. If they break the rules >all the >time, it is seen as weird. I totally believe men and women should >learn the >social norms for men and women. For example, men do not go around >sitting in >the splits. They save the splits for dance only. Also, there are >rules for >different body types. I'm sure there are many generalities that >will hold >true for many circumstance, and many of the rules will only be >ways of >communicating different information. For example, Guys should not >wear very >tight, stretchy pants with a shorter shirt unless they want to >convey how >big and... muscular they are. >But frankly, again, most blind people once worked past their >kinetic >oddities, will be much more excepted in the world. >For example, I'm trying really hard now to stop snapping my >retainers, >because I guess it really creeps people out... :( >Once people learn the rules, they will be able to label anything >new that >pops up and work to remove the odd mannerism from their actions. >Thank you, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Marc Workman >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 7:37 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted societyat >social gatherings >Chris wrote, >Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >our >sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, >what does >that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >different, >abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >that they >are the product of sighted people simply aping one another, and >that they >are arbitrary. I believe that such unwritten rules often >needlessly cause >huge amounts of anxiety, self-loathing, and anguish. >We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >particularly around >the subject of so called "blindisms, and I put that term in >quotes as a way >of acknowledging that it is pejorative. I'm sure it could be >found on line >by anyone who is interested. >Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >accepted >and respected not simply to the extent that they can look and act >like >sighted people, but on the grounds that they are human beings >possessing >dignity and as equally worthy of respect as sighted people. The >message >shouldn't be, "hey, we can follow your rules, so you should >accept us". >Instead, the message should be, "we, like you, have many talents >and >weaknesses, feel pleasure and pain, reach our full potential >through the >formation of deep and meaningful relationships with other human >beings, and >your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >into sighted >society. We are constantly policing one another's behaviour. >Probably one of >the more obvious examples of this has to do with gender. There >are hundreds >if not thousands of mostly unspoken rules about what makes a man >a man and >how real men ought to behave, and there are twice as many >concerning women. >These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >result is >often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, or chooses >not to, >conform. These gender rules are just as arbitrary as those around >sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort similarly should be to >relax and >remove such rules, not to more explicitly and fervently teach >boys and girls >the so called right way to act. >This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >does >unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed social, >volunteer, >and employment opportunities. So I don't judge or condemn anyone >who makes a >serious effort to learn the unwritten rules of sighted society, >just as I >don't judge someone who wants to spend all of his or her time >reading >medical journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard >being blind >in the particular society in which we live, and conforming can >make things a >little bit easier. But I still think we should work more on >changing >attitudes and less on teaching blind people how to look and act >like sighted >people. >Regards, >Marc >On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: >Hi Brandon and all, >I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >thread, as if >we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in >his post, >I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to >reflect >the actual topic of Brandon's message. >Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >instructional >seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with >the >sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the >NFB >leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) >has touched >on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the >topics at the >parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost >always social >skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >acceptable and >how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, >conforming as best >we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably >more >important for blind students, as we are often in social >gatherings (or >want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our >communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the >unwritten rules >which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and >follow >them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >are weird, >different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >very >adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >from the >vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and >blind >people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want >sighted >people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people >perceive us, then >it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, >and become >first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great >thing for >the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >doing >already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >students, >perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future >NABS >membership call. >Just my thoughts, >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >Hello, >We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >sex. There >is >a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >some >practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >:) >I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >sighted >community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >blind >community. >I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >not) have >some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >against the >grain >of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >suggested >that >the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >world >thinks. >Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >looks at a >gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >or a >sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >him and when >she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >really weird >and >she turns around and walks a mile away. >This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >both sexual >health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >of >attention >among blind individuals, and students in particular. >I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >aren't >meant >to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >would greatly >improve convention. >Thank you, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >Hi all, >I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >Whozit >condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >some >NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >NABS >selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >among >young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >position, >but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >extension, an >NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >or >bringing on an unwanted political debate. >I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >diversity >camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >available >as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >fact, >this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >about >sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >Arielle >On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >wrote: >Hello, >This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >never >seen >a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >having to >be >embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >condoms in >the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >browsing... >Condoms, >lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >probably need >to >provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >a condom >or >use a dental dam. >Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. The >packing >guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >for one >don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >that sell >hot >serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >buy a box >for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >(Then of >course >we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >bring >their >own utensil's). >Thanks, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Anmol Bhatia >Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >convention... >Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >braille >them >so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >Anmol >I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >Perhaps >there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >like a breeze >among flowers. >Hellen Keller >--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >wrote: >From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >, "National Association of Blind Students >mailing >list" >Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >Hi, Brandon, >I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >Respectfully, >Jedi >Sent from my iPhone >On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >wrote: >Hello, >Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >knows that site is trust worthy. >I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >presume? >Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >the experience is often not pleasant. >Thanks, >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- From: Arielle >Silverman >Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >Hi all, >I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >are kind of in a >gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >for this list, since >most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >unique to blindness. >So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >too far afield, I >will happily respect your judgment. However, I >also think that >Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >legitimate one and >that there might be other blind people out here, >including teenagers, >who have similar concerns about how to get >condoms, birth control or >sexual health information without a lot of >awkwardness or >embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >you have to depend >on someone else (especially parents) for >transportation which can make >going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >There are a few places to buy condoms online, >including >www.condomania.com >www.undercovercondoms.com >and >www.condomdepot.com >Believe it or not, they also have some condom >choices at >www.amazon.com >If you go to your health center on campus for any >reason, it shouldn't >be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >about condoms. >I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >having sex with a >partner because that is a highly individual >decision. However, I feel >it important that anyone who is considering having >sex for the first >time ensure you understand what all of your >options are for preventing >pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >advantages and >disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >to use condoms and >birth control. There are a couple different >websites with this kind >of information: >www.plannedparenthood.org >(includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >or >www.scarleteen.com >This issue is particularly close to my heart at >the moment because my >boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >pregnancy at a very >inopportune time (while still in college, with a >guy she had only >known for a few months) and was apparently taking >birth control pills, >but had not been taking them consistently. While I >don't believe that >sex should be feared, it is something that >takes some responsibility, >planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >while minimizing the >risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >there are other ways >to be physically intimate with someone that are >less risky, which >these online forums will talk about. >I also want to bring up an issue that is >somewhat relevant to sexual >health, which I experienced and I think that some >of you might also be >struggling with. This is the issue of having your >parents drive you to >doctors' appointments and then having them want to >sit in or even >participate in your appointments. Since I attended >college in my home >city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >doctors' appointments >and would then want to come in and chat with the >doctor while he/she >was examining me. This was partly because my >parents and I saw many of >the same doctors and she often thought it was a >good opportunity to >ask the doctor a quick question about her own >health while she was >there, or because she was curious to see what the >doctor recommended >to me about a particular issue. I eventually >realized that while it >wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >privacy as an adult >patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >room while I was seeing >the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >until I was 21 and in >hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >By the time you are 18, >unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >you have a right to >privacy of your medical information and it is >important to establish a >good doctor-patient relationship without a third >person interfering. >This is especially true when it comes to sexual >health and by the time >you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >discussing your sexual >activities or questions with your doctors without >your parents being >around. You might also want to consider getting a >driver or even >taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >this problem. >On a related note, by the time you are in high >school, you should know >the names of all medications you take on a >regular basis and any >chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >ever have to go to the >emergency room, this kind of information may >be requested of you. >Best, >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >%40samobile.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >mcast.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >40yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >mail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >m%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >s%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Wed Sep 19 22:18:57 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:18:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <505A44D1.9010904@tysdomain.com> O yes, gotta love church. The all accepting christians until well, until you're not like they are. "I like your god, but I do not like your Christians" On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > I also hate it when a pastor pushes you aside if you are not healed > and things like that. I feel that god has willed us to have our > blindness until us who are christians go to heaven. > > > > On 9/19/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I >> attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a >> time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much >> ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you >> tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >> wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >> things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >> and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >> other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >> left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >> together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >> out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 22:54:07 2012 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J Bloomgren) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:54:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sawubona, Andrew, We need to be very careful and cautious in respect to this thread. For one, we need to make darn sure that we don't descend into flame wars and religious commentary when this is a list about students and students' issues. I agree with everyone in this thread, in that these issues are very sad. For Andrew and all, my suggestion is to try to find a church wherein this is not done. I'm not going into religious talk at this time due to the nature of the list, but I agree that God doesn't discriminate, so nor should we. Sincerely in Christ, Ben On Sep 19, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Wed Sep 19 23:07:01 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:07:01 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: I think this is on topic for the list, because as blind people, it's like that anywhere we are, in public. I've noticed people that walk in, at my college, and as they come in the door, I greet them, and they won't even say anything back! It's rude, and condescending, to say the least! It makes me mad! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ben J Bloomgren [ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Sawubona, Andrew, We need to be very careful and cautious in respect to this thread. For one, we need to make darn sure that we don't descend into flame wars and religious commentary when this is a list about students and students' issues. I agree with everyone in this thread, in that these issues are very sad. For Andrew and all, my suggestion is to try to find a church wherein this is not done. I'm not going into religious talk at this time due to the nature of the list, but I agree that God doesn't discriminate, so nor should we. Sincerely in Christ, Ben On Sep 19, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dsykora29 at gmail.com Wed Sep 19 23:35:35 2012 From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:35:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These things happen pretty much everywhere I go. People ignore me all the time and leave me out of their conversations. I either try to find people who have similar interests and treat me with respect once they get to know me or I try to find a more accepting group of people altogether. You can only try so hard to show people that there is nothing wrong with you. HTH Danielle On 9/19/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > I think this is on topic for the list, because as blind people, it's like > that anywhere we are, in public. > I've noticed people that walk in, at my college, and as they come in the > door, I greet them, and they won't even say anything back! > It's rude, and condescending, to say the least! > It makes me mad! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ben > J Bloomgren [ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:54 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > Sawubona, Andrew, > > We need to be very careful and cautious in respect to this thread. For one, > we need to make darn sure that we don't descend into flame wars and > religious commentary when this is a list about students and students' > issues. I agree with everyone in this thread, in that these issues are very > sad. For Andrew and all, my suggestion is to try to find a church wherein > this is not done. I'm not going into religious talk at this time due to the > nature of the list, but I agree that God doesn't discriminate, so nor should > we. > > Sincerely in Christ, > > Ben > On Sep 19, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and >> things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com > From missheather at comcast.net Wed Sep 19 23:36:57 2012 From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:36:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505A44D1.9010904@tysdomain.com> References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> <505A44D1.9010904@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <51BA750902CF490D8C45467F96A00686@HeatherAcer> Hello Andrew, The issue that you are experiencing, with regard to being included in a social group of young people who don't know you, is the same that blind people experience everywhere. The difference here is that, because you're going to church, your expectations are different. Tyler seems to be expressing the same different expectation. For some reason, both of you seem to be expecting that, just because these people go to church, they will somehow not have the same stereotypes, strange ideas and hesitations as the people you meet at college, the store or on the bus. Whether or not they believe in God and go to church, or they meet at the local surf club or roller-skating rink, young people are usually cliquey and not good at including blind people. They don't know you and they don't receive the same eye-contact, smiles etc. that they do when making friends with a new sighted person so, they don't know what to do. Like most people, they take the easy way out and do nothing. If you want this to change, you will need to be proactive. Depending on the size of your church and the consequent size of the youth group, or group for young adults, your strategies will vary. Before I go on, let me tell you my story. I've been going to churches for over 30 years and I've attended all sorts of churches in both Australia and America. In every church, when the offering plate and the communion trays are passed, the ushers have passed me by and given them to the person next to me. this is because I don't see them holding them out to me and nor do I respond to their attempt at eye-contact. Sometimes, if the people sitting beside me don't know me they will simply pass the trays straight on down the row and ignore me. Is this because they're bad Christians? No, they just haven't got a clue about what to do to interact with blind people. In every case, if I'll be attending the church for a while, I seek out the pastor and I get him to introduce me to the person who coordinates the teams. I talk to them about how they need to instruct the ushers to gently touch my hand with the tray to alert me they are there. I explain that the average blind people want to put something in the offering plate just as often as the average sighted person and that it is discriminatory practice to leave them out. This solves the problem. I'm currently at a new church and I'm about to have this very conversation with the pastor next week. As for making friends in a new church, I can assure you that it won't happen on a Sunday morning. I would call the church office and speak to the person who coordinates the young adults group. Explain that you'd like to become part of the group and find out when it meets. Organise to be at that meeting and ask the leader if you can have 10 minutes to introduce yourself and briefly discuss the topic of blindness. Let them know that you're an ordinary guy, studying and living life, and that you'd like to make some friends. Lay the simple ground rules for how you'd like to be treated. For example, explain why you don't want people grabbing you by the arm or shoulders and propelling you ahead of them. Express your preference and explain that different blind people have different preferences and tell them yours. For example, whether you want people to tell you their name every time they come up to you or not and, whether you like to take someone's arm when you walk with them? Let them ask questions and answer frankly when appropriate. Be sure to have some means of taking down phone numbers with you. Ask people who'd be willing to go out to lunch, dinner, a movie etc. with you to please come and give you their numbers after the meeting. Then, take down names and numbers and you be the one to call and organise things. I guarantee you have lots of friends and and plenty of things to do in no time. And, remember that you are in a special position to exhibit the fruits of the spirit. Patience, kindness, self-control, long-suffering, love. All these are required when dealing with those who don't understand blindness and the way it does and doesn't effect blind people. It doesn't matter whether they are Christians or not. You are the one being called to step out in faith here because the sighted, Christian or not, need your mercy and forgiveness. It's not their fault that they don't know what to do. That's why we work so hard to educate them. You have a perfect opportunity to change the culture of your whole church. I look forward to hearing about your successes. Best, Heather -----Original Message----- From: Littlefield, Tyler Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church O yes, gotta love church. The all accepting christians until well, until you're not like they are. "I like your god, but I do not like your Christians" On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > I also hate it when a pastor pushes you aside if you are not healed > and things like that. I feel that god has willed us to have our > blindness until us who are christians go to heaven. > > > > On 9/19/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I >> attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a >> time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much >> ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you >> tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >> wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >> things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >> and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >> other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >> left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >> together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >> out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 01:59:38 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:59:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: Practice makes perfect. Also, one of the techniques used at BLIND, Inc. was the following. Time yourself and record how many pages you can read in one minute. Then, time yourself for another minute, and double the amount of pages you read. Don't try to comprehend the material, but just get in the habit of moving your fingers faster. Then, continue to practice and try to get yourself into the mind set of reading more quickly. Cindy On 9/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I'm wondering if anyone has any articles, books or advice for speeding up my > > Braille reading? I'm at the point to where no matter how much I seem to > read, my reading is not getting any faster... > At the moment I'm reading with my left index finger and my right finger > takes over when lines don't have any really complicated words... I'm getting > > down the two hand split, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can > be working on? > I've read that sighted people tend to see words in pictures and they don't > actually read the whole word. In fact they look at a paragraph and get the > picture in their head and hardly notice any particular words at all. > I'm wondering if there is some way to do this with Braille? > The TVIs that I've talked to have not worked with their students to go past > > letter by letter reading. I'm really looking for a Braille reading technique > > book if anything exists on that... > Reading Braille doesn't feel like understanding speech at faster speeds > which is something I have been able to do with no guidance :) so I'm kind of > > at a loss. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 02:45:11 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:45:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Message-ID: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" I know how that feels. Does anyone else here like to go on rollercoasters? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 02:45:13 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:45:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Message-ID: <505a8342.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa282@mx.google.com> Yeah I would call the cops if that happened to me. I'm autistic they can't just discriminate against people because of their disability. I have Ocd, Autism, and very extreme anxiety disorder. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Trist References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Practice makes perfect if done right. Guidance helps a lot. What do you mean? Just read my pathetic 1 page in one minute then run my fingers along the lines, grabbing the occasional the and whatnot to do 2 pages in one minute? How often should I do this? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Bennett Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 6:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Practice makes perfect. Also, one of the techniques used at BLIND, Inc. was the following. Time yourself and record how many pages you can read in one minute. Then, time yourself for another minute, and double the amount of pages you read. Don't try to comprehend the material, but just get in the habit of moving your fingers faster. Then, continue to practice and try to get yourself into the mind set of reading more quickly. Cindy On 9/17/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > I'm wondering if anyone has any articles, books or advice for speeding up > my > > Braille reading? I'm at the point to where no matter how much I seem to > read, my reading is not getting any faster... > At the moment I'm reading with my left index finger and my right finger > takes over when lines don't have any really complicated words... I'm > getting > > down the two hand split, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can > be working on? > I've read that sighted people tend to see words in pictures and they don't > actually read the whole word. In fact they look at a paragraph and get the > picture in their head and hardly notice any particular words at all. > I'm wondering if there is some way to do this with Braille? > The TVIs that I've talked to have not worked with their students to go > past > > letter by letter reading. I'm really looking for a Braille reading > technique > > book if anything exists on that... > Reading Braille doesn't feel like understanding speech at faster speeds > which is something I have been able to do with no guidance :) so I'm kind > of > > at a loss. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 03:13:20 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:13:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello Sarah, "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could say second octave b :)... So nice to have you on the list! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old anymore.. Smile!*** -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello Sarah, "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could say second octave b :)... So nice to have you on the list! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not helping by spurring that misconception on. On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > tv, dogs and horses > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Hello, > There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > cultures. > For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > conversation. It is > only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > or more > heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > almost always. > > Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > cultures. A > smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > big eyes > with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > front facing > up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > balloon and > the string is on your finger... > > Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > it means > one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > glee club, > getting in a relationship, dating... > > I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > world without > some sighted help. > Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > blind > people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > parents will > help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > with > questions like this they are invaluable... > Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > your heart, as > if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > terrified of > something? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat > social gatherings > > Hi all, > Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > called > "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > names > imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > there is > only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > both. > I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > nonjudgmental > forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > and > get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > place > where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > Also, > while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > majority > of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > teachers > and authority figures to a minimum. > I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > "blind-dating" perhaps. > If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > be > happy to help out with it. > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which > organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > student and > NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > things. So > I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > whatnot to > be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > acceptable blind or > > a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles > that > someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 04:08:49 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 04:08:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! It gets old! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not helping by spurring that misconception on. On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > tv, dogs and horses > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Hello, > There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > cultures. > For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > conversation. It is > only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > or more > heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > almost always. > > Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > cultures. A > smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > big eyes > with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > front facing > up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > balloon and > the string is on your finger... > > Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > it means > one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > glee club, > getting in a relationship, dating... > > I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > world without > some sighted help. > Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > blind > people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > parents will > help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > with > questions like this they are invaluable... > Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > your heart, as > if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > terrified of > something? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat > social gatherings > > Hi all, > Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > called > "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > names > imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > there is > only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > both. > I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > nonjudgmental > forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > and > get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > place > where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > Also, > while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > majority > of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > teachers > and authority figures to a minimum. > I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > "blind-dating" perhaps. > If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > be > happy to help out with it. > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which > organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > student and > NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > things. So > I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > whatnot to > be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > acceptable blind or > > a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles > that > someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 20 04:33:08 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:33:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CB272AAD65840E49E1ED42165C7E089@OwnerPC> Ah what does BA and BJ mean here? -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:23 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old anymore.. Smile!*** -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello Sarah, "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could say second octave b :)... So nice to have you on the list! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <40E896C372BE4B328A2E8FA99EFC487F@OwnerPC> I agree Brandon. I say watching tv; and I use words referencing sight like see, saw andimage. Listening to tv sounds weird. But I do understand why she said it. -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:00 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not helping by spurring that misconception on. On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > tv, dogs and horses > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Hello, > There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > cultures. > For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > conversation. It is > only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > or more > heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > almost always. > > Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > cultures. A > smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > big eyes > with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > front facing > up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > balloon and > the string is on your finger... > > Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > it means > one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > glee club, > getting in a relationship, dating... > > I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > world without > some sighted help. > Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > blind > people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > parents will > help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > with > questions like this they are invaluable... > Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > your heart, as > if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > terrified of > something? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat > social gatherings > > Hi all, > Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > called > "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > names > imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > there is > only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > both. > I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > nonjudgmental > forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > and > get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > place > where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > Also, > while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > majority > of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > teachers > and authority figures to a minimum. > I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > "blind-dating" perhaps. > If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > be > happy to help out with it. > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which > organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > student and > NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > things. So > I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > whatnot to > be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > acceptable blind or > > a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles > that > someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 04:41:26 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 04:41:26 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <2CB272AAD65840E49E1ED42165C7E089@OwnerPC> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com>, <2CB272AAD65840E49E1ED42165C7E089@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Someone's having issues with numbers on the Braille note, and transfering them to E-mail. LOL! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Ashley Bramlett [bookwormahb at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Ah what does BA and BJ mean here? -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:23 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old anymore.. Smile!*** -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello Sarah, "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could say second octave b :)... So nice to have you on the list! Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: Names: See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) Just some names... Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to go that route. Where I was going when I was talking about the different student divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension on the list. I don't want people going to war over which organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. I want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a problem, it's just something to consider. On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: Hello, Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student and NFB's student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and whatnot to be on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. Just make a group, possibly: bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable blind or a cooler name LOL... Any ideas? I even think this should have a website with different articles that someone can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. Because this is such a big issue. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyat social gatherings And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world. On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" > When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! > It gets old! > Blessings, Joshua > > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > helping by spurring that misconception on. > > On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 04:47:43 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 04:47:43 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com>, , <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: I just hate being around ignorant people! That's my problem! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world. On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" > When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! > It gets old! > Blessings, Joshua > > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > helping by spurring that misconception on. > > On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 20 05:13:57 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:13:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com>, , <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <505AA615.9030807@tysdomain.com> Josh: I think your list of problems is much, much longer. Ignorance is not the same thing as not knowing something. Most people (no, I didn't say all) are fairly accepting once they get to know you, but a lot of people can't imagine the idea of losing their sight. It's what they rely on most, so it's up to you to teach them otherwise. If you wander around and talk about "listening" to tv and everything else, they're just going to feel even weirder and try to moderate what they say to you. So you have two choices. You can run around the world thinking everyone is ignorant, or you can grow up, take a step and learn to fit in. The latter is much harder, so I guess I can see why you'd choose the former. On 9/19/2012 10:47 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I just hate being around ignorant people! > That's my problem! > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have > had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just > correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says > something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part > of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about > how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and > how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and > things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world. > On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" >> When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >> It gets old! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >> we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >> do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >> it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >> think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >> like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >> helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >> On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 20 04:31:52 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:31:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Online iBill Talking Money Identifier drawing (fwd) Message-ID: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:32:22 -0400 >From: "NFBRI, Greater Providence Chapter" >Reply-To: community at nfbri.org >To: community at nfbri.org >Subject: [NFBRI] Online iBill Talking Money Identifier drawing > >Greetings Federationists: >The Greater Providence Chapter is pleased to announce that we are selling >chances for our iBill drawing online. >the tickets are 1 for $3 and 3 for $5. you can learn more at >www.nfbri.org/ibill > >-- Rui Cabral > > From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 09:33:24 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:33:24 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! Message-ID: Arkansas doesn't have a state commission for the blind! How many states don't have commissions? Thanks, Joshua From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 20 09:58:43 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lets define our terms, so we are talking about the same thing. First services can be delivered to blind persons as part of a "combined" agency, that is blind services and general rehab, other disabilities are all delivered from the same department. r, services for the blind can be delivered from a department agency, not a part of the general agency. This separate agency may or may not be a Commission.. I would define a Commission as a separate agency that has a governing body, and that this body ideally be composed of a majority of blind persons, and it governs the agency, sets policies, hires a director etc. I could be wrong but think that around half, probably a few less, have blind-only agencies. Of these -- how many are Commissions -- I don't officially know, but think the number is relatively small I would guess s 5 to 10. Dave At 05:33 AM 9/20/2012, you wrote: >Arkansas doesn't have a state commission for the blind! >How many states don't have commissions? >Thanks, Joshua From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 12:03:24 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:03:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <776A94F604F94976A62172E152792885@userPC> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC> <776A94F604F94976A62172E152792885@userPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920050126.01c81088@comcast.net> Good morning, Brandon, and List, You can too, change the volume. Aren't there those buttons on the side as well as the volume controls within the phone? What do ya mean?At 07:03 AM 9/19/2012, you wrote: >What do you mean that part of the Haven is not accessable? I am able to >change the settings of that if I want. >Rania, > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Brandon Keith Biggs >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:43 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hello, >99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Ashley Bramlett >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Gloria, >I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the >I Phone and you do not want one. >If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much >more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it >has when you won't use it. > >I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, >so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming >call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as >you dial; I think that is all is voiced. > >The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being >made. >You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about >accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it >talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. >Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on >it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? >If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. > >I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last time >I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found accessible >phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold online. >So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all >accessible, but the major functions of it would be. >And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. >Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gloria G >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hi all, >I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you >can give. >Gloria >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >l.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >m > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 11:59:59 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 04:59:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505a8342.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa282@mx.google.com> References: <505a8342.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa282@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920045926.01bea090@comcast.net> Good morning, everybody, And, at church???At 07:45 PM 9/19/2012, Sarah wrote: >Yeah I would call the cops if that happened to me. I'm autistic >they can't just discriminate against people because of their >disability. I have Ocd, Autism, and very extreme anxiety disorder. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sophie Trist To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:49:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I >attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a >time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much >ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you >tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > >Hi nabs students readers > >I hope you all are doing well. > > >Anyway >I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > >I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >things. > >They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >and things. >every time after the service is over they just talk to each >other's >friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >left >sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >together >and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >out >to lunch and things like that. > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 12:09:48 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:09:48 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Wow! That's correct! I found out from a friend, who also posts on this list, that her state's commission for the blind, (a blind only service,) will do things that VR won't do. VR won't help me with a notetaker, so if we had a separate commission, I'm sure they'd help me in the purchase of one. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of David Andrews [dandrews at visi.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! Lets define our terms, so we are talking about the same thing. First services can be delivered to blind persons as part of a "combined" agency, that is blind services and general rehab, other disabilities are all delivered from the same department. r, services for the blind can be delivered from a department agency, not a part of the general agency. This separate agency may or may not be a Commission.. I would define a Commission as a separate agency that has a governing body, and that this body ideally be composed of a majority of blind persons, and it governs the agency, sets policies, hires a director etc. I could be wrong but think that around half, probably a few less, have blind-only agencies. Of these -- how many are Commissions -- I don't officially know, but think the number is relatively small I would guess s 5 to 10. Dave At 05:33 AM 9/20/2012, you wrote: >Arkansas doesn't have a state commission for the blind! >How many states don't have commissions? >Thanks, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 12:16:44 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 12:21:26 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:21:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920051711.01c19540@comcast.net> Good morning, Joshua, I know whatcha mean. Just because we don't use our peepers to literally watch something, shouldn't blow ol' Sighty's mind the way it seems too. I mean, blindness connotes unseeing, unperceiving which, most of us are by far, not actualizing. It pisses me off when our seeing is disbelieved, we get questioned ennough as blind people making claims about what we think we know to be true. You know? Car At 09:08 PM 9/19/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," >I get, "How do you watch it?" >When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >It gets old! >Blessings, Joshua > >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >societyatsocial gatherings > >Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >helping by spurring that misconception on. > >On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > > Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > > graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > > Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > > said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > > my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > > tv, dogs and horses > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > > > Hello, > > There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > > cultures. > > For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > > conversation. It is > > only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > > or more > > heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > > Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > > almost always. > > > > Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > > cultures. A > > smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > > big eyes > > with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > > Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > > front facing > > up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > > balloon and > > the string is on your finger... > > > > Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > > it means > > one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > > glee club, > > getting in a relationship, dating... > > > > I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > > world without > > some sighted help. > > Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > > blind > > people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > > parents will > > help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > > with > > questions like this they are invaluable... > > Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > > your heart, as > > if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > > terrified of > > something? > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arielle Silverman > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted societyat > > social gatherings > > > > Hi all, > > Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > > called > > "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > > names > > imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > > there is > > only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > > frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > > both. > > I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > > nonjudgmental > > forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > > and > > get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > > place > > where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > > Also, > > while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > > majority > > of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > > teachers > > and authority figures to a minimum. > > I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > > "blind-dating" perhaps. > > If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > > be > > happy to help out with it. > > > > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > > wrote: > > Names: > > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > > talk sightless (TSightless) > > > > Just some names... > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Desiree Oudinot > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted > > societyat > > > > social gatherings > > > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > > only thing > > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > > really > > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > > a cool > > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > > go > > that route. > > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > > contension on > > the list. I don't want people going to war over which > > organization's > > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > > situations > > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > > choose, > > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > > I > > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > > social > > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > > would help > > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > > will > > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > > doing > > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > > problem, > > it's just something to consider. > > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > > wrote: > > Hello, > > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > > student and > > NFB's > > > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > > things. So > > I > > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > > whatnot to > > be > > > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > > jump at the > > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > > Just make a group, possibly: > > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > > acceptable blind or > > > > a > > > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > > I even think this should have a website with different articles > > that > > someone > > > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > > Because this is > > such a big issue. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Desiree Oudinot > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted > > societyat > > > > social gatherings > > > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > > offending > > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > > or > > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > > matter > > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > > they fit > > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > > whether > > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > > to > > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > > anyone > > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > > treated > > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > > and > > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > > just as > > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > > as our > > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > > someone > > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > > of > > me because it just does for some reason. > > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > > of > > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > > woman > > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > > Jason > > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > > for > > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > > wife. You will be poor." No way. > > Beth > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > > sighted societyat social gatherings > > > > Chris wrote, > > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > > which > > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > > are > > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > > self-loathing, and anguish. > > > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > > interested. > > > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > > are > > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > > can > > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > > message > > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > > formation > > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > > and > > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > > has > > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > > mostly > > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > > effort > > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > > right > > way to act. > > > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > > judge > > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > > someone > > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > > should > > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > > people > > how to look and act like sighted people. > > > > Regards, > > > > Marc > > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > > wrote: > > > > Hi Brandon and all, > > > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > > message. > > > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > > out > > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > > of > > a future NABS membership call. > > > > Just my thoughts, > > > > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hello, > > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > > sex. There is > > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > > with > > some > > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > > :) > > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > > sighted > > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > > the > > blind > > community. > > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > > or > > not) have > > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > > against the grain > > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > > suggested that > > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > > world thinks. > > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > > looks at a > > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > > weird. > > or a > > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > > him and when > > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > > really weird and > > she turns around and walks a mile away. > > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > > both sexual > > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > > of attention > > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > > aren't meant > > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > > would greatly > > improve convention. > > Thank you, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arielle Silverman > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hi all, > > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > > Whozit > > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > > probably > > some > > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > > that > > NABS > > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > > activity > > among > > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > > position, > > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > > extension, an > > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > > or > > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > > and > > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > > diversity > > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > > available > > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > > fact, > > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > > workshop > > about > > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > > Arielle > > > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > > Hello, > > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > > have > > never > > seen > > > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > > having to > > be > > > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > > condoms in > > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > > browsing... > > Condoms, > > > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > > probably need > > to > > > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > > on > > a condom > > or > > > > use a dental dam. > > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > > The > > packing > > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > > I > > for one > > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > > that sell > > hot > > > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > > to > > buy a box > > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > > (Then of > > course > > > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > > didn't > > bring > > their > > > > own utensil's). > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Anmol Bhatia > > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > > convention... > > > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > > even > > braille > > them > > > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > > > Anmol > > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > > sad. > > Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > > like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: > > > > From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > , "National Association of Blind Students > > mailing > > list" > > > > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > > Hi, Brandon, > > > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > > > Respectfully, > > Jedi > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > > > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > > knows that site is trust worthy. > > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > > presume? > > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > > the experience is often not pleasant. > > Thanks, > > > > Brandon Keith Biggs > > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > > Silverman > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > > Hi all, > > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > > are kind of in a > > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > > for this list, since > > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > > unique to blindness. > > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > > too far afield, I > > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > > also think that > > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > > legitimate one and > > that there might be other blind people out here, > > including teenagers, > > who have similar concerns about how to get > > condoms, birth control or > > sexual health information without a lot of > > awkwardness or > > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > > you have to depend > > on someone else (especially parents) for > > transportation which can make > > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > > including > > www.condomania.com > > www.undercovercondoms.com > > and > > www.condomdepot.com > > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > > choices at > > www.amazon.com > > If you go to your health center on campus for any > > reason, it shouldn't > > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > > about condoms. > > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > > having sex with a > > partner because that is a highly individual > > decision. However, I feel > > it important that anyone who is considering having > > sex for the first > > time ensure you understand what all of your > > options are for preventing > > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > > advantages and > > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > > to use condoms and > > birth control. There are a couple different > > websites with this kind > > of information: > > www.plannedparenthood.org > > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > > or > > www.scarleteen.com > > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > > the moment because my > > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > > pregnancy at a very > > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > > guy she had only > > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > > birth control pills, > > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > > don't believe that > > sex should be feared, it is something that > > takes some responsibility, > > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > > while minimizing the > > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > > there are other ways > > to be physically intimate with someone that are > > less risky, which > > these online forums will talk about. > > I also want to bring up an issue that is > > somewhat relevant to sexual > > health, which I experienced and I think that some > > of you might also be > > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > > parents drive you to > > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > > sit in or even > > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > > college in my home > > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > > doctors' appointments > > and would then want to come in and chat with the > > doctor while he/she > > was examining me. This was partly because my > > parents and I saw many of > > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > > good opportunity to > > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > > health while she was > > there, or because she was curious to see what the > > doctor recommended > > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > > realized that while it > > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > > privacy as an adult > > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > > room while I was seeing > > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > > until I was 21 and in > > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > > By the time you are 18, > > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > > you have a right to > > privacy of your medical information and it is > > important to establish a > > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > > person interfering. > > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > > health and by the time > > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > > discussing your sexual > > activities or questions with your doctors without > > your parents being > > around. You might also want to consider getting a > > driver or even > > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > > this problem. > > On a related note, by the time you are in high > > school, you should know > > the names of all medications you take on a > > regular basis and any > > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > > ever have to go to the > > emergency room, this kind of information may > > be requested of you. > > Best, > > Arielle > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > > your account info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > > your account info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > > %40samobile.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > > mcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > > 40yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > > mail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > > m%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > > s%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info > > for nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > > se%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > > mail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > > %40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Thu Sep 20 12:22:17 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:22:17 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: They're wrong for teaching such nonsense! Our church understands the disabled, because we've had several disabled people there, for years. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Lavonya Gardner [hotdancer1416 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Thu Sep 20 12:54:06 2012 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:54:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Why aren't people more understanding at most churches. Message-ID: <000a01cd972f$05906a60$1400ba43@BRIAN> Luckily for me I go to a very great church where I've been included in everything and I've made tons of friends and yes I am the only blind person their. For those of you not so fortunate why don't you make the initiative and join a group of friends and make yourself noticed. I've had to do this to start out at some places and by the time I did I made tons of friends and people were more than welcoming to me. From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 12:26:46 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 05:26:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920052324.01c40590@comcast.net> Good morning, Tyler, I like your additude. My partner Robin and I traverse our community of Berkeley, California making people laugh so hopefully, putting them at ease. we try not to bitch about terminology, just not using the offending terminology but letting it go if they do. /19/2012, Joshua Lester wrote: >I just hate being around ignorant people! >That's my problem! >Blessings, Joshua >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:44 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >societyatsocial gatherings > >You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have >had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just >correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says >something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part >of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about >how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and >how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and >things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world. >On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > > I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching > TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" > > When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! > > It gets old! > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > > > Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > > we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > > do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > > it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > > think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > > like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > > helping by spurring that misconception on. > > > > On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >> tv, dogs and horses > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >> > >> Hello, > >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >> cultures. > >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >> conversation. It is > >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >> or more > >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >> almost always. > >> > >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >> cultures. A > >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >> big eyes > >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >> front facing > >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >> balloon and > >> the string is on your finger... > >> > >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >> it means > >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >> glee club, > >> getting in a relationship, dating... > >> > >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >> world without > >> some sighted help. > >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >> blind > >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >> parents will > >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >> with > >> questions like this they are invaluable... > >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >> your heart, as > >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >> terrified of > >> something? > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat > >> social gatherings > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >> called > >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >> names > >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >> there is > >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >> both. > >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >> nonjudgmental > >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >> and > >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >> place > >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >> Also, > >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >> majority > >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >> teachers > >> and authority figures to a minimum. > >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >> be > >> happy to help out with it. > >> > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Names: > >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >> talk sightless (TSightless) > >> > >> Just some names... > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >> only thing > >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >> really > >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >> a cool > >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >> go > >> that route. > >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >> contension on > >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >> organization's > >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >> situations > >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >> choose, > >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >> I > >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >> social > >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >> would help > >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >> will > >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >> doing > >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >> problem, > >> it's just something to consider. > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >> student and > >> NFB's > >> > >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >> things. So > >> I > >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >> whatnot to > >> be > >> > >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >> jump at the > >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >> Just make a group, possibly: > >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >> acceptable blind or > >> > >> a > >> > >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >> that > >> someone > >> > >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >> Because this is > >> such a big issue. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >> offending > >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >> or > >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >> matter > >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >> they fit > >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >> whether > >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >> to > >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >> anyone > >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >> treated > >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >> and > >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >> just as > >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >> as our > >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >> someone > >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >> > >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >> of > >> me because it just does for some reason. > >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >> of > >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >> woman > >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >> Jason > >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >> for > >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >> Beth > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat social gatherings > >> > >> Chris wrote, > >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >> which > >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >> are > >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >> > >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >> self-loathing, and anguish. > >> > >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >> interested. > >> > >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >> are > >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >> can > >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >> message > >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >> formation > >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >> and > >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >> > >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >> has > >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >> mostly > >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >> effort > >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >> right > >> way to act. > >> > >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >> judge > >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >> someone > >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >> should > >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >> people > >> how to look and act like sighted people. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Marc > >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Brandon and all, > >> > >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >> message. > >> > >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >> out > >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >> of > >> a future NABS membership call. > >> > >> Just my thoughts, > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hello, > >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >> sex. There is > >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >> with > >> some > >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >> :) > >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >> sighted > >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >> the > >> blind > >> community. > >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >> or > >> not) have > >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >> against the grain > >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >> suggested that > >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >> world thinks. > >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >> looks at a > >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >> weird. > >> or a > >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >> him and when > >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >> really weird and > >> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >> both sexual > >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >> of attention > >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >> aren't meant > >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >> would greatly > >> improve convention. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >> Whozit > >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >> probably > >> some > >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >> that > >> NABS > >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >> activity > >> among > >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >> position, > >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >> extension, an > >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >> or > >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >> and > >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >> diversity > >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >> available > >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >> fact, > >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >> workshop > >> about > >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >> have > >> never > >> seen > >> > >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >> having to > >> be > >> > >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >> condoms in > >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >> browsing... > >> Condoms, > >> > >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >> probably need > >> to > >> > >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >> on > >> a condom > >> or > >> > >> use a dental dam. > >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >> The > >> packing > >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >> I > >> for one > >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >> that sell > >> hot > >> > >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >> to > >> buy a box > >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >> (Then of > >> course > >> > >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >> didn't > >> bring > >> their > >> > >> own utensil's). > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Anmol Bhatia > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> > >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >> convention... > >> > >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >> even > >> braille > >> them > >> > >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >> > >> Anmol > >> > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >> sad. > >> Perhaps > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >> like a breeze > >> among flowers. > >> Hellen Keller > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: > >> > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> , "National Association of Blind Students > >> mailing > >> list" > >> > >> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >> Hi, Brandon, > >> > >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> Jedi > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >> knows that site is trust worthy. > >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >> presume? > >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >> the experience is often not pleasant. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >> Silverman > >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >> are kind of in a > >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >> for this list, since > >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >> unique to blindness. > >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >> too far afield, I > >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >> also think that > >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >> legitimate one and > >> that there might be other blind people out here, > >> including teenagers, > >> who have similar concerns about how to get > >> condoms, birth control or > >> sexual health information without a lot of > >> awkwardness or > >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >> you have to depend > >> on someone else (especially parents) for > >> transportation which can make > >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >> including > >> www.condomania.com > >> www.undercovercondoms.com > >> and > >> www.condomdepot.com > >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >> choices at > >> www.amazon.com > >> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >> reason, it shouldn't > >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >> about condoms. > >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >> having sex with a > >> partner because that is a highly individual > >> decision. However, I feel > >> it important that anyone who is considering having > >> sex for the first > >> time ensure you understand what all of your > >> options are for preventing > >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >> advantages and > >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >> to use condoms and > >> birth control. There are a couple different > >> websites with this kind > >> of information: > >> www.plannedparenthood.org > >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >> or > >> www.scarleteen.com > >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >> the moment because my > >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >> pregnancy at a very > >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >> guy she had only > >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >> birth control pills, > >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >> don't believe that > >> sex should be feared, it is something that > >> takes some responsibility, > >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >> while minimizing the > >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >> there are other ways > >> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >> less risky, which > >> these online forums will talk about. > >> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >> somewhat relevant to sexual > >> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >> of you might also be > >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >> parents drive you to > >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >> sit in or even > >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >> college in my home > >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >> doctors' appointments > >> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >> doctor while he/she > >> was examining me. This was partly because my > >> parents and I saw many of > >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >> good opportunity to > >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >> health while she was > >> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >> doctor recommended > >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >> realized that while it > >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >> privacy as an adult > >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >> room while I was seeing > >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >> until I was 21 and in > >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >> By the time you are 18, > >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >> you have a right to > >> privacy of your medical information and it is > >> important to establish a > >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >> person interfering. > >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >> health and by the time > >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >> discussing your sexual > >> activities or questions with your doctors without > >> your parents being > >> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >> driver or even > >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >> this problem. > >> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >> school, you should know > >> the names of all medications you take on a > >> regular basis and any > >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >> ever have to go to the > >> emergency room, this kind of information may > >> be requested of you. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >> %40samobile.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > >> mcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > >> 40yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > >> m%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > >> s%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info > >> for nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >> se%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> 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_______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu Sep 20 13:53:47 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:53:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told him what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. Best regards, Steve On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >helping by spurring that misconception on. >On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu Sep 20 14:04:22 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:04:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joshua, a Commission is only one form that services for blind people can take. Many of us feel it is the most effective way because the agency that provides services is generally more visible to the governor and is more in control of its budget. Also, if consumers are a part of its Commission board, one would hope it responds to consumers more. However, there are a number of states that do not have commissions but have separate agencies that provide services to blind people. Finally, there are states where services to blind people are a part of a general rehabilitation agency and are not separated out. I don't know the exact numbers but would guess that there are perhaps a dozen commissions. It seems to me that I have heard that there are perhaps two dozen separate agencies that are not commissions with the remaining dozen or so being services provided within the general rehabilitation unit. Someone here can probably give you more accurate figures, though. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:33:24 +0000, Joshua Lester wrote: >Arkansas doesn't have a state commission for the blind! >How many states don't have commissions? >Thanks, Joshua >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 14:08:47 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 07:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1348150127.10803.YahooMailClassic@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Arkansas has Services for the Blind under the Department of Human Services. It does have a board of directors appointed by the Governor, however, I am not sure if the Director answers to the board or the Director of Human Services. There is also Department of Vocational Rehabilitation which serves all other disabilities besides blindness. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 4:33 AM > Arkansas doesn't have a state > commission for the blind! > How many states don't have commissions? > Thanks, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 20 14:30:09 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:30:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920052324.01c40590@comcast.net> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920052324.01c40590@comcast.net> Message-ID: <505B2871.2010605@tysdomain.com> There's no other way to do it. If you can make someone laugh, you're pretty much set. It makes them feel 100 times more comfortable. On 9/20/2012 6:26 AM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Tyler, > > I like your additude. My partner Robin and I traverse our community of > Berkeley, California making people laugh so hopefully, putting them at > ease. we try not to bitch about terminology, just not using the > offending terminology but letting it go if they do. /19/2012, Joshua > Lester wrote: >> I just hate being around ignorant people! >> That's my problem! >> Blessings, Joshua >> ________________________________________ >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >> of Littlefield, Tyler [tyler at tysdomain.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:44 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyatsocial gatherings >> >> You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I have >> had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." and I just >> correct them and life goes on. If you explode because someone says >> something about watching TV people are going to feel awkward. Maybe part >> of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, rather than bitch about >> how I'm mistreated and alienated from the mean hurtful sighted world and >> how they always laugh at me. Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and >> things are harder if you're blind. It's not the end of the world. >> On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching >> TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" >> > When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >> > It gets old! >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >> behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >> societyatsocial gatherings >> > >> > Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >> > we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >> > do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >> > it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >> > think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >> > like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >> > helping by spurring that misconception on. >> > >> > On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> > >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> >> cultures. >> >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> >> conversation. It is >> >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> >> or more >> >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> >> almost always. >> >> >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> >> cultures. A >> >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> >> big eyes >> >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> >> front facing >> >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> >> balloon and >> >> the string is on your finger... >> >> >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> >> it means >> >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> >> glee club, >> >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> >> world without >> >> some sighted help. >> >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> >> blind >> >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> >> parents will >> >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> >> with >> >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> >> your heart, as >> >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> >> terrified of >> >> something? >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> >> sighted societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> >> called >> >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> >> names >> >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> >> there is >> >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> >> both. >> >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> >> nonjudgmental >> >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> >> and >> >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> >> place >> >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> >> Also, >> >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> >> majority >> >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> >> teachers >> >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> >> be >> >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> wrote: >> >> Names: >> >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> >> >> Just some names... >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> >> sighted >> >> societyat >> >> >> >> social gatherings >> >> >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> >> only thing >> >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> >> really >> >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> >> a cool >> >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> >> go >> >> that route. >> >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> >> contension on >> >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> >> organization's >> >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> >> situations >> >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> >> choose, >> >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> >> I >> >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> >> social >> >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> >> would help >> >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> >> will >> >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> >> doing >> >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> >> problem, >> >> it's just something to consider. >> >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> >> student and >> >> NFB's >> >> >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> >> things. So >> >> I >> >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> >> whatnot to >> >> be >> >> >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> >> jump at the >> >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> >> Just make a group, possibly: >> >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> >> acceptable blind or >> >> >> >> a >> >> >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> >> that >> >> someone >> >> >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> >> Because this is >> >> such a big issue. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> >> sighted >> >> societyat >> >> >> >> social gatherings >> >> >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> >> offending >> >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> >> or >> >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> >> matter >> >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> >> they fit >> >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> >> whether >> >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> >> to >> >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> >> anyone >> >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> >> treated >> >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> >> and >> >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> >> just as >> >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> >> as our >> >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> >> someone >> >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> >> of >> >> me because it just does for some reason. >> >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> >> of >> >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> >> woman >> >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> >> Jason >> >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> >> for >> >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> >> Beth >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Marc Workman > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> > >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> >> >> Chris wrote, >> >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> >> which >> >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> >> are >> >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> >> interested. >> >> >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> >> are >> >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> >> can >> >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> >> message >> >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> >> formation >> >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> >> and >> >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> >> has >> >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> >> mostly >> >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> >> effort >> >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> >> right >> >> way to act. >> >> >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> >> judge >> >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> >> someone >> >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> >> should >> >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> >> people >> >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Marc >> >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> >> message. >> >> >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> >> out >> >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> >> of >> >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> > >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> >> sex. There is >> >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> >> with >> >> some >> >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> >> :) >> >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> >> sighted >> >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> >> the >> >> blind >> >> community. >> >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> >> or >> >> not) have >> >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> >> against the grain >> >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> >> suggested that >> >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> >> world thinks. >> >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> >> looks at a >> >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> >> weird. >> >> or a >> >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> >> him and when >> >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> >> really weird and >> >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> >> both sexual >> >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> >> of attention >> >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> >> aren't meant >> >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> >> would greatly >> >> improve convention. >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Arielle Silverman >> >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> >> Whozit >> >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> >> probably >> >> some >> >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> >> that >> >> NABS >> >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> >> activity >> >> among >> >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> >> position, >> >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> >> extension, an >> >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> >> or >> >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> >> and >> >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> >> diversity >> >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> >> available >> >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> >> fact, >> >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> >> workshop >> >> about >> >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> >> have >> >> never >> >> seen >> >> >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> >> having to >> >> be >> >> >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> >> condoms in >> >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> >> browsing... >> >> Condoms, >> >> >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> >> probably need >> >> to >> >> >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> >> on >> >> a condom >> >> or >> >> >> >> use a dental dam. >> >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> >> The >> >> packing >> >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> >> I >> >> for one >> >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> >> that sell >> >> hot >> >> >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> >> to >> >> buy a box >> >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> >> (Then of >> >> course >> >> >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> >> didn't >> >> bring >> >> their >> >> >> >> own utensil's). >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> >> convention... >> >> >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> >> even >> >> braille >> >> them >> >> >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> >> >> Anmol >> >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> >> sad. >> >> Perhaps >> >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> >> like a breeze >> >> among flowers. >> >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> >> mailing >> >> list" >> >> >> >> > >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Jedi >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> >> > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> >> presume? >> >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> >> Silverman >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> >> are kind of in a >> >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> >> for this list, since >> >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> >> unique to blindness. >> >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> >> too far afield, I >> >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> >> also think that >> >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> >> legitimate one and >> >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> >> including teenagers, >> >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> >> condoms, birth control or >> >> sexual health information without a lot of >> >> awkwardness or >> >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> >> you have to depend >> >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> >> transportation which can make >> >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> >> including >> >> www.condomania.com >> >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> >> and >> >> www.condomdepot.com >> >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> >> choices at >> >> www.amazon.com >> >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> >> reason, it shouldn't >> >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> >> about condoms. >> >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> >> having sex with a >> >> partner because that is a highly individual >> >> decision. However, I feel >> >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> >> sex for the first >> >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> >> options are for preventing >> >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> >> advantages and >> >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> >> to use condoms and >> >> birth control. There are a couple different >> >> websites with this kind >> >> of information: >> >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> >> or >> >> www.scarleteen.com >> >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> >> the moment because my >> >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> >> pregnancy at a very >> >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> >> guy she had only >> >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> >> birth control pills, >> >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> >> don't believe that >> >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> >> takes some responsibility, >> >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> >> while minimizing the >> >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> >> there are other ways >> >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> >> less risky, which >> >> these online forums will talk about. >> >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> >> of you might also be >> >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> >> parents drive you to >> >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> >> sit in or even >> >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> >> college in my home >> >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> >> doctors' appointments >> >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> >> doctor while he/she >> >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> >> parents and I saw many of >> >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> >> good opportunity to >> >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> >> health while she was >> >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> >> doctor recommended >> >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> >> realized that while it >> >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> >> privacy as an adult >> >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> >> room while I was seeing >> >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> >> until I was 21 and in >> >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> >> By the time you are 18, >> >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> >> you have a right to >> >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> >> important to establish a >> >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> >> person interfering. >> >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> >> health and by the time >> >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> >> discussing your sexual >> >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> >> your parents being >> >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> >> driver or even >> >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> >> this problem. >> >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> >> school, you should know >> >> the names of all medications you take on a >> >> regular basis and any >> >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> >> ever have to go to the >> >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> >> be requested of you. >> >> Best, >> >> Arielle >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> >> mcast.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> >> m%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> >> se%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> >> info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >> >> >> -- >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >> he that dares not reason is a slave. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 15:45:53 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:45:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Message-ID: <505b3a3b.0988440a.2c2b.676d@mx.google.com> Thanks! I am 20 years inld too. I'm going to guide dog school today! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Yeah sighted people don't know what it's to not be able to "watch" tv. We have to listen to tv and hope someone will describe it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester wrote: Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, dogs and horses ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" I think it was supposed to mean twenty-one and twenty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 16:41:04 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:41:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D309BA0EE164D7D94646316613BDCC1@BrandonsLaptop2> I just laugh and say I do both just like everyone. But I always say I saw. If they give me flack I ask innocently: When you babysit are you sitting like a baby or sitting on the baby? When you are touched by someone's speech did they really lay your hands on you? Saw, heard, touched, smelled, tasted, all the same thing. :) Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 6:53 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told him what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. Best regards, Steve On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >helping by spurring that misconception on. >On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From andrewjedg at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 16:44:41 2012 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew Edgcumbe) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:44:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> Message-ID: hear is an article that would lend into this thread. Throw Away Christians By Phil Scovell I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again they are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown them away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each and every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, but I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood for their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and a variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for whom ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful souls up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these people, none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, So, extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several hours until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special folk are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful that you aren't in a wheelchair. Another category of these special Christians with special needs are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to their inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate the hearing loss these people have nor have any special accommodations been made to the amplification system which would allow them to wear earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so they could hear better. If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. The larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services are then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend a church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard of hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, of course, because then all those that the church brings in from the nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing the mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny and those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, even these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes you thankful for the youth we have. This special class and seating arrangement in the church service for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, of course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their own class where they won't be a bother to others. These same children, since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately after Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while their parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. In this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday school class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three or four hours each Sunday. Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have discovered blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people don't need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back row where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. This has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and the church is able to minister to them better when they are all grouped together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of the camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all handicapped peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such a blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit back on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing right along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you aren't blind. Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are the Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from a local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of the church because they often become disruptive during the service and have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we are not like them and have mental normality. Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely are considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are they assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, they have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We notice their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of the Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit to tears. We would never once consider that something else might be wrong. We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed people often are going forward during the altar call for specialized prayer. Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender hearts toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but we have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming or going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being left alone anyhow. Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask one of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You are told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church as "those to whom only the professionals can handle." I could continue with other segments of society but you likely have gotten the picture by now. Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls who have been molested or raped by family members or friends and relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have been sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have been threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most of those children are adults. Some in this silent group have suffered from traumatic childhood experiences and although they daily experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding of the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel from leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The Professionals" and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. Some of these people suffering from various forms of depression have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average Christian beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at night because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of them. Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even hear voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. They never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last three weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this special silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional and mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep because otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants and antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on even stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic mind altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, who, amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as far as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their families, driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in the church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are all conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on the other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended and gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were now diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with schizophrenia tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or manic depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, or, as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell their doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to have Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, the church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near them anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right along with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting and forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for them, making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my own times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the night and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when I'm eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they cry and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to kill themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football games which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those with multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for the frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. when they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes an alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt to comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times with them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear and guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are whole and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you are serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, they are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can and does. If you are one of the suffering silent people and need ministry because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are a pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and are trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are a pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted to pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who is hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call me. If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested and can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. Having marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call me. If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've attempted suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is over powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are an obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the unpardonable sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you have become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, call me. No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how to pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, on the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, find someone to help you make the right medical decisions. Safe Place Fellowship Phil Scovell Denver, Colorado USA Mountain Time Zone WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: > That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't > talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if > things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. > They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing > them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness > was my punishment for not letting them touch me. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist > wrote: > > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're > autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They > seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now > I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at > a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on > the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad > much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. > Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your > interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe > wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and > things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me > and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each > other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often > left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all > together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going > out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 17:07:05 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:07:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100453.01e33da8@comcast.net> Good morning, Lavonya, You know, in some cultures (the one that comes to mind is the Hmong) people with an affect like your's are considdered to be healers, or shamen. The church people, then, clearly are missing out! Don't they know there is room for everyone??? At 08:58 AM 9/20/2012, Sarah wrote: >That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r >too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them >out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my >punishment for not letting them touch me. > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > >How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? >Sounds like discrimination to me! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem >to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend >2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At >the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance >team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, >and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > >Hi nabs students readers > >I hope you all are doing well. > > >Anyway >I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > >I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > >They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. >every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's >friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left >sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together >and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out >to lunch and things like that. > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >r%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From tyler at tysdomain.com Thu Sep 20 17:08:25 2012 From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:08:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> This article, by far is not what you want people to see. If you want to fit in, go make friends. But the tone of this article seems to look upon us "pitiful souls" as helpless, people those who are "blessed" by god to be "normal," in other words, who should feel sorry for us. On 9/20/2012 10:44 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > hear is an article that would lend into this thread. > Throw Away Christians > > > By Phil Scovell > > > > > I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again they > are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown them > away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each and > every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, but > I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood for > their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. > > These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and a > variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for whom > ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful souls > up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these people, > none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, So, > extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several hours > until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special folk > are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful that > you aren't in a wheelchair. > > Another category of these special Christians with special needs > are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to their > inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate the > hearing loss these people have nor have any special accommodations > been made to the amplification system which would allow them to wear > earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so they > could hear better. > > If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. The > larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services are > then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend a > church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard of > hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, too. > It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. > > The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, of > course, because then all those that the church brings in from the > nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing the > mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny and > those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, even > these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes you > thankful for the youth we have. > > This special class and seating arrangement in the church service > for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, of > course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their own > class where they won't be a bother to others. These same children, > since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately after > Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while their > parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. In > this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday school > class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three or > four hours each Sunday. > > Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have discovered > blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people don't > need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back row > where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. This > has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and the > church is able to minister to them better when they are all grouped > together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of the > camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all handicapped > peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such a > blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit back > on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing right > along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you aren't > blind. > > Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are the > Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from a > local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of the > church because they often become disruptive during the service and > have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we are > not like them and have mental normality. > > Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely are > considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are they > assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, they > have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We notice > their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of the > Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit to > tears. We would never once consider that something else might be > wrong. > > We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed people > often are going forward during the altar call for specialized prayer. > Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender hearts > toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but we > have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming or > going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being left > alone anyhow. > > Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask one > of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You are > told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church as > "those to whom only the professionals can handle." > > I could continue with other segments of society but you likely have > gotten the picture by now. > > Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls who > have been molested or raped by family members or friends and > relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have been > sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have been > threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most of > those children are adults. Some in this silent group have suffered > from traumatic childhood experiences and although they daily > experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding of > the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel from > leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The Professionals" > and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. > > Some of these people suffering from various forms of depression > have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average Christian > beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at night > because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of them. > Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even hear > voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. They > never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last three > weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this special > silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional and > mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep because > otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants and > antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on even > stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic mind > altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, who, > amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as far > as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their families, > driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in the > church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are all > conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on the > other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended and > gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were now > diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with schizophrenia > tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, General > Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or manic > depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, or, > as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell their > doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to have > Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, the > church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near them > anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right along > with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. > > My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting and > forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for them, > making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my own > times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the night > and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when I'm > eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they cry > and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to kill > themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football games > which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those with > multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for the > frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. when > they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes an > alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt to > comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times with > them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear and > guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. > > How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are whole > and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you are > serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, they > are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can and > does. > > If you are one of the suffering silent people and need ministry > because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are a > pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and are > trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are a > pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted to > pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who is > hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call me. > If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested and > can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. Having > marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call me. > If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've attempted > suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is over > powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are an > obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the unpardonable > sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you have > become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, call > me. > > No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how to > pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, on > the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, find > someone to help you make the right medical decisions. > > > Safe Place Fellowship > Phil Scovell > Denver, Colorado USA > Mountain Time Zone > WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM > > > On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: >> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >> talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if >> things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing >> them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness >> was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist >> wrote: >> >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now >> I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at >> a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad >> much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your >> interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >> wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >> things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >> and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >> other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >> left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >> together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >> out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 17:14:43 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:14:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100918.01e0b250@comcast.net> Good morning, Steve, Well, we are watching the TV in a way that holds the most meaning to us and I assert that, our way of "watching" ought to be considdered as meaningful as your buddy's. As long as input is meaningful, it shouldn't matter if it comes to you via the tip of your tongue. I have heard of folk reading braille with the tip of their tongues. than HIS???:53 AM 9/20/2012, Steve Jacobson wrote: >Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo >with no TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I >told him what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw >it as me sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > >Best regards, > >Steve > > >On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > >Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > >we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > >do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > >it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > >think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > >like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > >helping by spurring that misconception on. > > >On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >> tv, dogs and horses > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >> > >> Hello, > >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >> cultures. > >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >> conversation. It is > >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >> or more > >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >> almost always. > >> > >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >> cultures. A > >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >> big eyes > >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >> front facing > >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >> balloon and > >> the string is on your finger... > >> > >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >> it means > >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >> glee club, > >> getting in a relationship, dating... > >> > >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >> world without > >> some sighted help. > >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >> blind > >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >> parents will > >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >> with > >> questions like this they are invaluable... > >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >> your heart, as > >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >> terrified of > >> something? > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat > >> social gatherings > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >> called > >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >> names > >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >> there is > >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >> both. > >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >> nonjudgmental > >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >> and > >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >> place > >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >> Also, > >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >> majority > >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >> teachers > >> and authority figures to a minimum. > >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >> be > >> happy to help out with it. > >> > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Names: > >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >> talk sightless (TSightless) > >> > >> Just some names... > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >> only thing > >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >> really > >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >> a cool > >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >> go > >> that route. > >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >> contension on > >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >> organization's > >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >> situations > >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >> choose, > >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >> I > >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >> social > >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >> would help > >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >> will > >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >> doing > >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >> problem, > >> it's just something to consider. > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >> student and > >> NFB's > >> > >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >> things. So > >> I > >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >> whatnot to > >> be > >> > >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >> jump at the > >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >> Just make a group, possibly: > >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >> acceptable blind or > >> > >> a > >> > >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >> that > >> someone > >> > >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >> Because this is > >> such a big issue. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >> offending > >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >> or > >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >> matter > >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >> they fit > >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >> whether > >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >> to > >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >> anyone > >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >> treated > >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >> and > >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >> just as > >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >> as our > >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >> someone > >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >> > >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >> of > >> me because it just does for some reason. > >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >> of > >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >> woman > >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >> Jason > >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >> for > >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >> Beth > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat social gatherings > >> > >> Chris wrote, > >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >> which > >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >> are > >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >> > >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >> self-loathing, and anguish. > >> > >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >> interested. > >> > >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >> are > >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >> can > >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >> message > >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >> formation > >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >> and > >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >> > >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >> has > >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >> mostly > >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >> effort > >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >> right > >> way to act. > >> > >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >> judge > >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >> someone > >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >> should > >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >> people > >> how to look and act like sighted people. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Marc > >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Brandon and all, > >> > >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >> message. > >> > >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >> out > >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >> of > >> a future NABS membership call. > >> > >> Just my thoughts, > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hello, > >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >> sex. There is > >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >> with > >> some > >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >> :) > >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >> sighted > >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >> the > >> blind > >> community. > >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >> or > >> not) have > >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >> against the grain > >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >> suggested that > >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >> world thinks. > >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >> looks at a > >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >> weird. > >> or a > >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >> him and when > >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >> really weird and > >> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >> both sexual > >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >> of attention > >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >> aren't meant > >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >> would greatly > >> improve convention. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >> Whozit > >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >> probably > >> some > >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >> that > >> NABS > >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >> activity > >> among > >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >> position, > >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >> extension, an > >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >> or > >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >> and > >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >> diversity > >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >> available > >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >> fact, > >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >> workshop > >> about > >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >> have > >> never > >> seen > >> > >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >> having to > >> be > >> > >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >> condoms in > >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >> browsing... > >> Condoms, > >> > >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >> probably need > >> to > >> > >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >> on > >> a condom > >> or > >> > >> use a dental dam. > >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >> The > >> packing > >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >> I > >> for one > >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >> that sell > >> hot > >> > >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >> to > >> buy a box > >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >> (Then of > >> course > >> > >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >> didn't > >> bring > >> their > >> > >> own utensil's). > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Anmol Bhatia > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> > >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >> convention... > >> > >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >> even > >> braille > >> them > >> > >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >> > >> Anmol > >> > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >> sad. > >> Perhaps > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >> like a breeze > >> among flowers. > >> Hellen Keller > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: > >> > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> , "National Association of Blind Students > >> mailing > >> list" > >> > >> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >> Hi, Brandon, > >> > >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> Jedi > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >> knows that site is trust worthy. > >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >> presume? > >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >> the experience is often not pleasant. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >> Silverman > >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >> are kind of in a > >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >> for this list, since > >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >> unique to blindness. > >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >> too far afield, I > >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >> also think that > >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >> legitimate one and > >> that there might be other blind people out here, > >> including teenagers, > >> who have similar concerns about how to get > >> condoms, birth control or > >> sexual health information without a lot of > >> awkwardness or > >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >> you have to depend > >> on someone else (especially parents) for > >> transportation which can make > >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >> including > >> www.condomania.com > >> www.undercovercondoms.com > >> and > >> www.condomdepot.com > >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >> choices at > >> www.amazon.com > >> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >> reason, it shouldn't > >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >> about condoms. > >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >> having sex with a > >> partner because that is a highly individual > >> decision. However, I feel > >> it important that anyone who is considering having > >> sex for the first > >> time ensure you understand what all of your > >> options are for preventing > >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >> advantages and > >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >> to use condoms and > >> birth control. There are a couple different > >> websites with this kind > >> of information: > >> www.plannedparenthood.org > >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >> or > >> www.scarleteen.com > >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >> the moment because my > >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >> pregnancy at a very > >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >> guy she had only > >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >> birth control pills, > >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >> don't believe that > >> sex should be feared, it is something that > >> takes some responsibility, > >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >> while minimizing the > >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >> there are other ways > >> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >> less risky, which > >> these online forums will talk about. > >> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >> somewhat relevant to sexual > >> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >> of you might also be > >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >> parents drive you to > >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >> sit in or even > >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >> college in my home > >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >> doctors' appointments > >> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >> doctor while he/she > >> was examining me. This was partly because my > >> parents and I saw many of > >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >> good opportunity to > >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >> health while she was > >> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >> doctor recommended > >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >> realized that while it > >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >> privacy as an adult > >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >> room while I was seeing > >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >> until I was 21 and in > >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >> By the time you are 18, > >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >> you have a right to > >> privacy of your medical information and it is > >> important to establish a > >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >> person interfering. > >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >> health and by the time > >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >> discussing your sexual > >> activities or questions with your doctors without > >> your parents being > >> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >> driver or even > >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >> this problem. > >> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >> school, you should know > >> the names of all medications you take on a > >> regular basis and any > >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >> ever have to go to the > >> emergency room, this kind of information may > >> be requested of you. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >> %40samobile.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > >> mcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > >> 40yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > >> m%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > >> s%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info > >> for nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >> se%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >> > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson% > 40visi.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 17:21:21 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:21:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: I think the article was written satirically. Arielle On 9/20/12, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > This article, by far is not what you want people to see. If you want to > fit in, go make friends. But the tone of this article seems to look upon > us "pitiful souls" as helpless, people those who are "blessed" by god to > be "normal," in other words, who should feel sorry for us. > On 9/20/2012 10:44 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> hear is an article that would lend into this thread. >> Throw Away Christians >> >> >> By Phil Scovell >> >> >> >> >> I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again >> they >> are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown >> them >> away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each >> and >> every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, >> but >> I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood >> for >> their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. >> >> These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and >> a >> variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for >> whom >> ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful >> souls >> up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these >> people, >> none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, >> So, >> extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several >> hours >> until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special >> folk >> are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful >> that >> you aren't in a wheelchair. >> >> Another category of these special Christians with special >> needs >> are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to >> their >> inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate >> the >> hearing loss these people have nor have any special >> accommodations >> been made to the amplification system which would allow them to >> wear >> earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so >> they >> could hear better. >> >> If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. >> The >> larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services >> are >> then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend >> a >> church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard >> of >> hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, >> too. >> It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. >> >> The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, >> of >> course, because then all those that the church brings in from >> the >> nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing >> the >> mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny >> and >> those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, >> even >> these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes >> you >> thankful for the youth we have. >> >> This special class and seating arrangement in the church >> service >> for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, >> of >> course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their >> own >> class where they won't be a bother to others. These same >> children, >> since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately >> after >> Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while >> their >> parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. >> In >> this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday >> school >> class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three >> or >> four hours each Sunday. >> >> Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have >> discovered >> blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people >> don't >> need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back >> row >> where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. >> This >> has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and >> the >> church is able to minister to them better when they are all >> grouped >> together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of >> the >> camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all >> handicapped >> peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such >> a >> blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit >> back >> on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing >> right >> along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you >> aren't >> blind. >> >> Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are >> the >> Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from >> a >> local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of >> the >> church because they often become disruptive during the service >> and >> have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we >> are >> not like them and have mental normality. >> >> Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely >> are >> considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are >> they >> assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, >> they >> have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We >> notice >> their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of >> the >> Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit >> to >> tears. We would never once consider that something else might >> be >> wrong. >> >> We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed >> people >> often are going forward during the altar call for specialized >> prayer. >> Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender >> hearts >> toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but >> we >> have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming >> or >> going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being >> left >> alone anyhow. >> >> Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask >> one >> of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You >> are >> told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church >> as >> "those to whom only the professionals can handle." >> >> I could continue with other segments of society but you likely >> have >> gotten the picture by now. >> >> Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls >> who >> have been molested or raped by family members or friends >> and >> relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have >> been >> sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have >> been >> threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most >> of >> those children are adults. Some in this silent group have >> suffered >> from traumatic childhood experiences and although they >> daily >> experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding >> of >> the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel >> from >> leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The >> Professionals" >> and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. >> >> Some of these people suffering from various forms of >> depression >> have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average >> Christian >> beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at >> night >> because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of >> them. >> Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even >> hear >> voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. >> They >> never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last >> three >> weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this >> special >> silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional >> and >> mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep >> because >> otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants >> and >> antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on >> even >> stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic >> mind >> altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, >> who, >> amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as >> far >> as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their >> families, >> driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in >> the >> church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are >> all >> conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on >> the >> other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended >> and >> gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were >> now >> diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with >> schizophrenia >> tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, >> General >> Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or >> manic >> depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, >> or, >> as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell >> their >> doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to >> have >> Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, >> the >> church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near >> them >> anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right >> along >> with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. >> >> My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting >> and >> forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for >> them, >> making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my >> own >> times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the >> night >> and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when >> I'm >> eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they >> cry >> and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to >> kill >> themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football >> games >> which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those >> with >> multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for >> the >> frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. >> when >> they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes >> an >> alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt >> to >> comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times >> with >> them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear >> and >> guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. >> >> How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are >> whole >> and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you >> are >> serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, >> they >> are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can >> and >> does. >> >> If you are one of the suffering silent people and need >> ministry >> because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are >> a >> pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and >> are >> trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are >> a >> pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted >> to >> pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who >> is >> hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call >> me. >> If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested >> and >> can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. >> Having >> marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call >> me. >> If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've >> attempted >> suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is >> over >> powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are >> an >> obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the >> unpardonable >> sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you >> have >> become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, >> call >> me. >> >> No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how >> to >> pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, >> on >> the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, >> find >> someone to help you make the right medical decisions. >> >> >> Safe Place Fellowship >> Phil Scovell >> Denver, Colorado USA >> Mountain Time Zone >> WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM >> >> >> On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: >>> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >>> talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if >>> things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >>> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing >>> them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness >>> was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >>> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >>> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now >>> I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at >>> a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >>> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad >>> much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >>> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your >>> interests? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi nabs students readers >>> >>> I hope you all are doing well. >>> >>> >>> Anyway >>> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >>> >>> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >>> things. >>> >>> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >>> and things. >>> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >>> other's >>> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >>> left >>> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >>> together >>> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >>> out >>> to lunch and things like that. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 17:33:10 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:33:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505A44D1.9010904@tysdomain.com> References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> <505A44D1.9010904@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920103248.01e70a78@comcast.net> Good morning, Tyler, Say it, brother!At 03:18 PM 9/19/2012, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >O yes, gotta love church. The all accepting christians until well, >until you're not like they are. >"I like your god, but I do not like your Christians" > >On 9/19/2012 3:12 PM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >>I also hate it when a pastor pushes you aside if you are not healed >>and things like that. I feel that god has willed us to have our >>blindness until us who are christians go to heaven. >> >> >> >>On 9/19/12, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >>>autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Lavonya Gardner >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>>I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >>>seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I >>>attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a >>>time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >>>the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much >>>ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you >>>tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >>>wrote: >>> >>> Hi nabs students readers >>> >>> I hope you all are doing well. >>> >>> >>> Anyway >>> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >>> >>> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >>>things. >>> >>> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >>>and things. >>> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >>>other's >>> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >>>left >>> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >>>together >>> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >>>out >>> to lunch and things like that. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>r%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 17:38:38 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:38:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <505A9F28.8050800@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920103414.01e38b60@comcast.net> Yeah, Tyler, Just make 'em laugh! Hopefully, he forgets how awkward he feels by the mere presence of oh my god, a BLIND person! :44 PM 9/19/2012, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >You know, maybe it's just all my personal charm or something, but I >have had the weird "have you watched... ur I mean listened to..." >and I just correct them and life goes on. If you explode because >someone says something about watching TV people are going to feel >awkward. Maybe part of it is I'm not totally anal and I can laugh, >rather than bitch about how I'm mistreated and alienated from the >mean hurtful sighted world and how they always laugh at me. >Everyone's going to get pushed aside, and things are harder if >you're blind. It's not the end of the world. >On 9/19/2012 10:08 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching >>TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" >>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >>It gets old! >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>societyatsocial gatherings >> >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>>Hello, >>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>cultures. >>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>conversation. It is >>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>or more >>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>almost always. >>> >>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>cultures. A >>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>big eyes >>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>front facing >>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>balloon and >>>the string is on your finger... >>> >>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>it means >>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>glee club, >>>getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>world without >>>some sighted help. >>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>blind >>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>parents will >>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>with >>>questions like this they are invaluable... >>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>your heart, as >>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>terrified of >>>something? >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Arielle Silverman >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyat >>>social gatherings >>> >>>Hi all, >>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>called >>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>names >>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>there is >>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>both. >>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>nonjudgmental >>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>and >>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>place >>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>Also, >>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>majority >>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>teachers >>>and authority figures to a minimum. >>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>"blind-dating" perhaps. >>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>be >>>happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>mail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 17:44:56 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [International Students with Disabilities to the U.S.] Would you like a chance to win $4, 000? Submit... Message-ID: <1348163096.37306.YahooMailClassic@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 9/19/12, Ashley Bryant wrote: From: Ashley Bryant Subject: [International Students with Disabilities to the U.S.] Would you like a chance to win $4,000? Submit... To: "International Students with Disabilities to the U.S." <284689051591478 at groups.facebook.com> Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 10:32 PM #yiv1103282370 a.yiv1103282370thumb:link, #yiv1103282370 a.yiv1103282370thumb:visited {border:1px #CCCCCC solid !important;}#yiv1103282370 a.yiv1103282370thumb:active, #yiv1103282370 a.yiv1103282370thumb:hover {border:1px #3B5998 solid !important;} Ashley Bryant posted in International Students with Disabilities to the U.S. Ashley Bryant 10:32pm Sep 19 Would you like a chance to win $4,000? Submit a short video to InternationalStudent.com and you will be entered! Click here for more details: http://www.internationalstudent.com/contest/home International Student Travel Video Contest 2012 www.internationalstudent.com The Travel Video Contest allows students to enter and win up to $4000 for any travel they want to do... View Post on Facebook · Edit Email Settings · Reply to this email to add a comment. From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 18:10:03 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:10:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9500DC19-D012-4D3E-A34D-22ED08545E15@gmail.com> I was yelled at a lot, so I would throw things and scream. If I was touched I would scream, hit, and bite, not because I wanted too, I am still that way when touched unexpectedly. I have sensory prossesing issues, comman with autism. I also have to be close to whatever I need to se. I can see some,. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 11:58, Sarah wrote: > That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 18:14:42 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:14:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111331.01e70a78@comcast.net> Perhaps, if you are to take this article at face value. I don't however believe it is to be read as such. It's satyre, my people!At 10:08 AM 9/20/2012, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >This article, by far is not what you want people to see. If you want >to fit in, go make friends. But the tone of this article seems to >look upon us "pitiful souls" as helpless, people those who are >"blessed" by god to be "normal," in other words, who should feel sorry for us. >On 9/20/2012 10:44 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >>hear is an article that would lend into this thread. >> Throw Away Christians >> >> >> By Phil Scovell >> >> >> >> >> I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again they >> are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown them >> away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each and >> every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, but >> I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood for >> their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. >> >> These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and a >> variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for whom >> ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful souls >> up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these people, >> none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, So, >> extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several hours >> until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special folk >> are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful that >> you aren't in a wheelchair. >> >> Another category of these special Christians with special needs >> are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to their >> inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate the >> hearing loss these people have nor have any special accommodations >> been made to the amplification system which would allow them to wear >> earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so they >> could hear better. >> >> If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. The >> larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services are >> then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend a >> church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard of >> hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, too. >> It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. >> >> The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, of >> course, because then all those that the church brings in from the >> nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing the >> mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny and >> those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, even >> these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes you >> thankful for the youth we have. >> >> This special class and seating arrangement in the church service >> for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, of >> course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their own >> class where they won't be a bother to others. These same children, >> since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately after >> Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while their >> parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. In >> this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday school >> class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three or >> four hours each Sunday. >> >> Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have discovered >> blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people don't >> need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back row >> where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. This >> has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and the >> church is able to minister to them better when they are all grouped >> together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of the >> camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all handicapped >> peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such a >> blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit back >> on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing right >> along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you aren't >> blind. >> >> Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are the >> Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from a >> local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of the >> church because they often become disruptive during the service and >> have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we are >> not like them and have mental normality. >> >> Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely are >> considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are they >> assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, they >> have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We notice >> their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of the >> Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit to >> tears. We would never once consider that something else might be >> wrong. >> >> We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed people >> often are going forward during the altar call for specialized prayer. >> Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender hearts >> toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but we >> have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming or >> going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being left >> alone anyhow. >> >> Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask one >> of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You are >> told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church as >> "those to whom only the professionals can handle." >> >> I could continue with other segments of society but you likely have >> gotten the picture by now. >> >> Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls who >> have been molested or raped by family members or friends and >> relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have been >> sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have been >> threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most of >> those children are adults. Some in this silent group have suffered >> from traumatic childhood experiences and although they daily >> experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding of >> the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel from >> leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The Professionals" >> and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. >> >> Some of these people suffering from various forms of depression >> have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average Christian >> beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at night >> because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of them. >> Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even hear >> voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. They >> never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last three >> weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this special >> silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional and >> mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep because >> otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants and >> antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on even >> stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic mind >> altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, who, >> amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as far >> as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their families, >> driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in the >> church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are all >> conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on the >> other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended and >> gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were now >> diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with schizophrenia >> tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, General >> Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or manic >> depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, or, >> as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell their >> doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to have >> Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, the >> church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near them >> anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right along >> with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. >> >> My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting and >> forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for them, >> making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my own >> times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the night >> and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when I'm >> eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they cry >> and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to kill >> themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football games >> which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those with >> multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for the >> frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. when >> they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes an >> alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt to >> comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times with >> them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear and >> guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. >> >> How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are whole >> and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you are >> serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, they >> are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can and >> does. >> >> If you are one of the suffering silent people and need ministry >> because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are a >> pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and are >> trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are a >> pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted to >> pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who is >> hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call me. >> If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested and >> can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. Having >> marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call me. >> If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've attempted >> suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is over >> powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are an >> obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the unpardonable >> sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you have >> become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, call >> me. >> >> No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how to >> pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, on >> the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, find >> someone to help you make the right medical decisions. >> >> >> Safe Place Fellowship >> Phil Scovell >> Denver, Colorado USA >> Mountain Time Zone >> WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM >> >> >>On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: >>>That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Lavonya Gardner >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>>I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >>>talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if >>>things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >>>They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing >>>them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness >>>was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >>>autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >>>seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now >>>I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at >>>a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >>>the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad >>>much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >>>Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your >>>interests? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi nabs students readers >>> >>> I hope you all are doing well. >>> >>> >>> Anyway >>> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >>> >>> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >>>things. >>> >>> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >>>and things. >>> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >>>other's >>> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >>>left >>> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >>>together >>> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >>>out >>> to lunch and things like that. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 18:17:39 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:17:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> What the hell does BA years old, mean?PM 9/19/2012, Humberto Avila wrote: >Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. >(smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old >anymore.. Smile!*** > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Brandon Keith Biggs >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > >Hello Sarah, >"I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm >totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could > >say second octave b :)... >So nice to have you on the list! >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Sarah >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > >Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >tv, dogs and horses > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >Hello, >There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >cultures. >For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >conversation. It is >only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >or more >heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >almost always. > >Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >cultures. A >smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >big eyes >with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >front facing >up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >balloon and >the string is on your finger... > >Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >it means >one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >glee club, >getting in a relationship, dating... > >I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >world without >some sighted help. >Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >blind >people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >parents will >help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >with >questions like this they are invaluable... >Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >your heart, as >if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >terrified of >something? >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Arielle Silverman >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted societyat >social gatherings > >Hi all, >Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >called >"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >names >imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >there is >only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >both. >I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >nonjudgmental >forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >and >get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >place >where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >Also, >while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >majority >of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >teachers >and authority figures to a minimum. >I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >"blind-dating" perhaps. >If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >be >happy to help out with it. > > >On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >wrote: >Names: >See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >talk sightless (TSightless) > >Just some names... >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted >societyat > >social gatherings > >That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >only thing >holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >really >think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >a cool >idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >go >that route. >Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >contension on >the list. I don't want people going to war over which >organization's >philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >situations >better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >choose, >but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >I >want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >social >awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >would help >them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >will >that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >doing >so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >problem, >it's just something to consider. > >On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >wrote: >Hello, >Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >student and >NFB's > >student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >things. So >I >really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >whatnot to >be > >on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >jump at the >chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >Just make a group, possibly: >bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >acceptable blind or > >a > >cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >I even think this should have a website with different articles >that >someone > >can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >Because this is >such a big issue. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Desiree Oudinot >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted >societyat > >social gatherings > >And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >offending >people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >or >ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >matter >their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >they fit >in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >whether >they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >to >follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >anyone >what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >treated >like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >and >the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >just as >crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >as our >hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >someone >actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >of >me because it just does for some reason. >2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >of >themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >woman >cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >Jason >can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >for >nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >wife. You will be poor." No way. >Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sighted societyat social gatherings > >Chris wrote, >Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >which >our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >are >weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >self-loathing, and anguish. > >We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >interested. > >Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >are >accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >can >follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >message >should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >formation >of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >and >your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >has >to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >mostly >unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >effort >similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >right >way to act. > >This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >judge >or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >someone >who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >should >work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >people >how to look and act like sighted people. > >Regards, > >Marc >On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >"fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >(the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >out >from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >of >a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >with >some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >:) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >the >blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >or >not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >weird. >or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >probably >some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >that >NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >activity >among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >workshop >about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >have >never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >on >a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >The >packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >I >for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >to >buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >(Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >didn't >bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >even >braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >sad. >Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students >mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for > nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: > > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >s%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info >for nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >se%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for >nabs-l: > >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >iggs%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >l.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 18:23:09 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:23:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100453.01e33da8@comcast.net> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100453.01e33da8@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5CD42597-F574-46BD-A3A5-88F4B577F8DA@gmail.com> I love me as I am. (blind and autistic.) there's nothing "wrong" with either. I live on my own, raise my 7 year autistic daughter, go to class/work adjustment program, and do as I please, with support, but I do it. I dance do speeches and write books. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 13:07, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Good morning, Lavonya, > > You know, in some cultures (the one that comes to mind is the Hmong) people with an affect like your's are considdered to be healers, or shamen. > The church people, then, clearly are missing out! Don't they know there is room for everyone??? > At 08:58 AM 9/20/2012, Sarah wrote: >> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 18:20:12 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:20:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111937.01e01bd0@comcast.net> Did some of you people forget how to chuckle at satyre? Smile!At 10:08 AM 9/20/2012, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: >This article, by far is not what you want people to see. If you want >to fit in, go make friends. But the tone of this article seems to >look upon us "pitiful souls" as helpless, people those who are >"blessed" by god to be "normal," in other words, who should feel sorry for us. >On 9/20/2012 10:44 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >>hear is an article that would lend into this thread. >> Throw Away Christians >> >> >> By Phil Scovell >> >> >> >> >> I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again they >> are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown them >> away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each and >> every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, but >> I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood for >> their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. >> >> These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and a >> variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for whom >> ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful souls >> up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these people, >> none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, So, >> extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several hours >> until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special folk >> are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful that >> you aren't in a wheelchair. >> >> Another category of these special Christians with special needs >> are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to their >> inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate the >> hearing loss these people have nor have any special accommodations >> been made to the amplification system which would allow them to wear >> earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so they >> could hear better. >> >> If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. The >> larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services are >> then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend a >> church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard of >> hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, too. >> It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. >> >> The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, of >> course, because then all those that the church brings in from the >> nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing the >> mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny and >> those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, even >> these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes you >> thankful for the youth we have. >> >> This special class and seating arrangement in the church service >> for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, of >> course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their own >> class where they won't be a bother to others. These same children, >> since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately after >> Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while their >> parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. In >> this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday school >> class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three or >> four hours each Sunday. >> >> Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have discovered >> blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people don't >> need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back row >> where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. This >> has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and the >> church is able to minister to them better when they are all grouped >> together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of the >> camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all handicapped >> peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such a >> blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit back >> on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing right >> along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you aren't >> blind. >> >> Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are the >> Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from a >> local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of the >> church because they often become disruptive during the service and >> have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we are >> not like them and have mental normality. >> >> Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely are >> considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are they >> assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, they >> have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We notice >> their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of the >> Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit to >> tears. We would never once consider that something else might be >> wrong. >> >> We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed people >> often are going forward during the altar call for specialized prayer. >> Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender hearts >> toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but we >> have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming or >> going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being left >> alone anyhow. >> >> Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask one >> of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You are >> told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church as >> "those to whom only the professionals can handle." >> >> I could continue with other segments of society but you likely have >> gotten the picture by now. >> >> Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls who >> have been molested or raped by family members or friends and >> relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have been >> sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have been >> threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most of >> those children are adults. Some in this silent group have suffered >> from traumatic childhood experiences and although they daily >> experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding of >> the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel from >> leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The Professionals" >> and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. >> >> Some of these people suffering from various forms of depression >> have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average Christian >> beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at night >> because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of them. >> Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even hear >> voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. They >> never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last three >> weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this special >> silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional and >> mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep because >> otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants and >> antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on even >> stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic mind >> altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, who, >> amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as far >> as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their families, >> driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in the >> church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are all >> conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on the >> other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended and >> gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were now >> diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with schizophrenia >> tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, General >> Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or manic >> depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, or, >> as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell their >> doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to have >> Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, the >> church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near them >> anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right along >> with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. >> >> My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting and >> forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for them, >> making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my own >> times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the night >> and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when I'm >> eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they cry >> and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to kill >> themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football games >> which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those with >> multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for the >> frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. when >> they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes an >> alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt to >> comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times with >> them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear and >> guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. >> >> How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are whole >> and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you are >> serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, they >> are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can and >> does. >> >> If you are one of the suffering silent people and need ministry >> because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are a >> pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and are >> trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are a >> pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted to >> pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who is >> hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call me. >> If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested and >> can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. Having >> marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call me. >> If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've attempted >> suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is over >> powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are an >> obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the unpardonable >> sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you have >> become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, call >> me. >> >> No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how to >> pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, on >> the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, find >> someone to help you make the right medical decisions. >> >> >> Safe Place Fellowship >> Phil Scovell >> Denver, Colorado USA >> Mountain Time Zone >> WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM >> >> >>On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: >>>That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Lavonya Gardner >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>>I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >>>talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if >>>things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >>>They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing >>>them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness >>>was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >>> >>>Sent from my iPad >>> >>>On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >>>autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >>>seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now >>>I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at >>>a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >>>the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad >>>much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >>>Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your >>>interests? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi nabs students readers >>> >>> I hope you all are doing well. >>> >>> >>> Anyway >>> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >>> >>> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >>>things. >>> >>> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >>>and things. >>> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >>>other's >>> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >>>left >>> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >>>together >>> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >>>out >>> to lunch and things like that. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > >-- >Take care, >Ty >http://tds-solutions.net >The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; >he that dares not reason is a slave. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 20 17:30:05 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:30:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Take Literary Braille Competency Test in Albuquerque Message-ID: Stand out among teachers of the blind and visually impaired! Don't miss the opportunity to hold this important, nationally recognized certification of literary braille proficiency. The National Certification in Literary Braille (NCLB) test will be administered by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB) Work.jpg in Albuquerque, New Mexico on Saturday October 27, 2012 at The New Mexico School for the Blind and Visually Impaired Early Childhood Programs Sage Room 801 Stephen Moody Dr. SE Albuquerque, New Mexico 87123 Please go to our website, www.nbpcb.org/nclb to find out more information and to register for this important test. Deadline for registration is October 15, 2012! You may contact the test administrator, Juan Haro at (575) 442-1363, or juan at jfharo.com. Or contact the NBPCB office at (318) 257-4554 or by email at braille at nbpcb.org Register now at: https://nbpcb.org/members/login.php?r=/members/er.php?eid=102 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1d90aa.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 69438 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carlymih at comcast.net Thu Sep 20 19:46:33 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:46:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <5CD42597-F574-46BD-A3A5-88F4B577F8DA@gmail.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100453.01e33da8@comcast.net> <5CD42597-F574-46BD-A3A5-88F4B577F8DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920124614.01e3ce18@comcast.net> You go girl!At 11:23 AM 9/20/2012, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >I love me as I am. (blind and autistic.) there's nothing "wrong" >with either. I live on my own, raise my 7 year autistic daughter, go >to class/work adjustment program, and do as I please, with support, >but I do it. I dance do speeches and write books. > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 20, 2012, at 13:07, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > Good morning, Lavonya, > > > > You know, in some cultures (the one that comes to mind is the > Hmong) people with an affect like your's are considdered to be > healers, or shamen. > > The church people, then, clearly are missing out! Don't they know > there is room for everyone??? > > At 08:58 AM 9/20/2012, Sarah wrote: > >> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >> > >> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't > talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things > r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. > >> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing > them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness > was my punishment for not letting them touch me. > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> > >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're > autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > >> > >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They > seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I > attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a > time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the > dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I > can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. > >> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > >> > >> Hi nabs students readers > >> > >> I hope you all are doing well. > >> > >> > >> Anyway > >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > >> > >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > >> > >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > >> to lunch and things like that. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > >> r%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From wmodnl at hotmail.com Thu Sep 20 20:49:26 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:49:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <505B4D89.5010709@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: I love the article!!! It is a perfect fit for our discussion. Many times, I been in a church and have been told that I would be healed someday, and I would no longer be broken! Good job! You took the words out-of-my-mouth. I do not go to that place. I seen it's other side, from my life experiences, and it is a legal shammed business. It can defraud it's smaller investors, (If you did not know, your weekly donation to the basket pays for the service.) (Notice hhow those with real needs are brushed aside especially if they do not put there hands out.) While we watch banks and other corporate organizations do what they are doing on a larger scale. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 1:12 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" wrote: > This article, by far is not what you want people to see. If you want to fit in, go make friends. But the tone of this article seems to look upon us "pitiful souls" as helpless, people those who are "blessed" by god to be "normal," in other words, who should feel sorry for us. > On 9/20/2012 10:44 AM, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> hear is an article that would lend into this thread. >> Throw Away Christians >> >> >> By Phil Scovell >> >> >> >> >> I have discovered a class, or group, of people, born again they >> are, members of the Body of Christ, yet the church has thrown them >> away. Strangely enough, I have learned how much God loves each and >> every one of these throw away Christians. It goes without saying, but >> I will say it any way, Jesus died for them, shedding His blood for >> their sins, and was bodily resurrected for them, too. >> >> These special groups cover a wide range of personalities and a >> variety of physical conditions. Some are in wheelchairs for whom >> ramps are conveniently constructed in order to get these pitiful souls >> up and into the church building. Unfortunately, for these people, >> none of the bathrooms have been modified to handle wheelchairs, So, >> extra faith is required of these folk to hold it for several hours >> until they get back home or to wherever they live. These special folk >> are such a blessing to the church, too. It makes you thankful that >> you aren't in a wheelchair. >> >> Another category of these special Christians with special needs >> are hard of hearing. Little, if any, regard is given to their >> inability to hear through the Public Address system to accommodate the >> hearing loss these people have nor have any special accommodations >> been made to the amplification system which would allow them to wear >> earphones or to even plug in to the system, if using implants, so they >> could hear better. >> >> If you are totally deaf, on the other hand, you are in luck. The >> larger ministries have taught sign language and so the services are >> then translated for the deaf. If you so happen to wish to attend a >> church without a translator, then you are out of luck. The hard of >> hearing, and the totally deaf, are such a blessing to the church, too. >> It makes you thank the Lord for your own hearing ability. >> >> The elderly have their own Sunday school class. This is nice, of >> course, because then all those that the church brings in from the >> nearby nursing home can sit in their own class without disturbing the >> mainstream body of believers. Especially if they smell funny and >> those bussed in from the nearby nursing home always do. Yet, even >> these elderly people are such a blessing to the church. It makes you >> thankful for the youth we have. >> >> This special class and seating arrangement in the church service >> for the elderly is very much like Sunday school for the children, of >> course, so it seems logically that the elderly would have their own >> class where they won't be a bother to others. These same children, >> since they are so disruptive, have junior church immediately after >> Sunday school. This is their own little church they have while their >> parents are out in the auditorium having their big church service. In >> this way, church workers, who never get to sit in on a Sunday school >> class or church service, get to teach the children for a good three or >> four hours each Sunday. >> >> Although it is rare, some of the mega churches have discovered >> blind people read Braille instead of print. Since blind people don't >> need to see, their little group of eight or ten sit on the back row >> where those ungodly large Braille hymn books are easily stored. This >> has really brought the blind community together, we are told, and the >> church is able to minister to them better when they are all grouped >> together. Additionally, there is the added blessing of the >> camaraderie which occurs among these, to be pitied of all handicapped >> peoples, just because they are now grouped together. They are such a >> blessing and encouragement to the rest of the church as they sit back >> on the back roe with the large Braille song books and singing right >> along with the rest of the church. It makes you thankful you aren't >> blind. >> >> Closely related to the blind group of special Christians, are the >> Path Finders group. These are the mentally retarded bussed in from a >> local care home. This group also gets to sit in the back of the >> church because they often become disruptive during the service and >> have to be taken out by the special workers. Thank the Lord we are >> not like them and have mental normality. >> >> Finally, there is a silent group of people who rarely are >> considered. They don't have their own special hymn books nor are they >> assigned a special place to sit in the service. Furthermore, they >> have no special Sunday school class of their own to attend. We notice >> their tears they often shed during the preaching and teaching of the >> Word but we just figure they are being moved by the Holy Spirit to >> tears. We would never once consider that something else might be >> wrong. >> >> We have also noticed that this silent group of unnamed people >> often are going forward during the altar call for specialized prayer. >> Again, we have no idea why but just assume they have tender hearts >> toward the Lord. We have heard they have some special problems but we >> have never talked to them, other than to say hello when coming or >> going to the church, and they look like people who prefer being left >> alone anyhow. >> >> Eventually, your curiosity gets the best of you and you ask one >> of the church leaders who this silent group of people are. You are >> told that this group has been unofficially classified by the church as >> "those to whom only the professionals can handle." >> >> I could continue with other segments of society but you likely have >> gotten the picture by now. >> >> Scattered throughout these various groups, are little girls who >> have been molested or raped by family members or friends and >> relatives. Little boys can also be found in the church who have been >> sodomized but as is the case with the little girls, they have been >> threatened or ignored if they did tell someone about it. Now, most of >> those children are adults. Some in this silent group have suffered >> from traumatic childhood experiences and although they daily >> experience anxiety and panic attacks, they have no understanding of >> the nature of the cross they must carry. When seeking counsel from >> leaders of the church, they often are referred to "The Professionals" >> and told they will be placed on the church prayer list. >> >> Some of these people suffering from various forms of depression >> have ungodly nightmares the would frighten the average Christian >> beyond emotional stability. Others cry themselves to sleep at night >> because of the sadness that tries to crush the life out of them. >> Others, although they would never admit such to anyone, even hear >> voices. Some have not only considered suicide but attempted it. They >> never told anyone why they were missing from church for the last three >> weeks and no one noticed anyhow. Some of these people in this special >> silent group, are told they are in advanced stages of emotional and >> mental illness. This group are on medications for sleep because >> otherwise they are awake all night. Others are on antidepressants and >> antianxiety medications for their depression. Some are on even >> stronger medications classified as psychotic or psychotropic mind >> altering drugs. These are the more mentally ill people, who, >> amazingly enough, seem to function in life relatively normally as far >> as anyone can tell. Holding down a job, caring for their families, >> driving a car, mowing their grass, reading their Bible, serving in the >> church, and other activities that seem perfectly normal, are all >> conducted by these silently hurting people. If people knew, on the >> other hand, they had done as the church leadership had recommended and >> gone to "The Professionals" with their problems, and were now >> diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, or with schizophrenia >> tendencies, or told they have Obsessive Compulsive disorder, General >> Anxiety Disorder, or they are clinically depressed or manic >> depressive, or if they have been tested and found to be bipolar, or, >> as is the case for some who have been brave enough to tell their >> doctor that they heard voices and now have been determined to have >> Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is multiple personalities, the >> church wouldn't come near them. Well, they don't come near them >> anyway. These silently hurting people are throw aways, right along >> with many others, for whom the church chooses not to minister. >> >> My ministry, on the other hand, is to these silently hurting and >> forgotten people. I pastor them and pray with them. I cry for them, >> making myself available for them 24-7 and pray for them on my own >> times alone with the Lord. They call me in the middle of the night >> and get me out of bed because they are afraid. They call me when I'm >> eating my breakfast or lunch or supper and I talk to them as they cry >> and tell me how frightened they are and how they want to kill >> themselves. They call me as I listen to my favorite football games >> which I turn off to talk and pray with them. Sometimes, those with >> multiple personalities, call. It isn't uncommon in such cases for the >> frightened alternate personality to actually do the calling. when >> they call, I talk to them until they become peaceful. Sometimes an >> alternate personality emails me. I email them back and attempt to >> comfort them. I schedule regular appointments of prayer times with >> them so the Lord can continue to reach into their lives of fear and >> guilt and shame and loneliness and anxiety and pain to heal them. >> >> How long do I continue to minister to them? Until they are whole >> and healed from everything. Is that possible? If it is not, you are >> serving the wrong God. Aren't these people crazy people? No, they >> are hurting people whom the Lord not only wants to heal but can and >> does. >> >> If you are one of the suffering silent people and need ministry >> because you have no one to whom you can turn, call me. If you are a >> pastor and need ministry, call me. If you are a pastor's wife and are >> trapped by fear and there's no one to tell, call me. If you are a >> pastor or missionary or church leader, and find yourself addicted to >> pornography, call me. If you are a mixed up confused mom who is >> hearing voices in your head and you want to kill yourself, call me. >> If you are depressed, call me. If you've been raped or molested and >> can't seem to find comfort after all these years, call me. Having >> marital problems? Call me. If you are sexually confused, call me. >> If you have nightmares, if you are suicidal, or if you've attempted >> suicide, call me. If you've lost a loved one and the grief is over >> powering and it just doesn't get any better, call me. If you are an >> obsessive compulsive, call me. If you have committed the unpardonable >> sin, call me. If you doubt your salvation, call me. If you have >> become involved in an affair, call me. If you are a throw away, call >> me. >> >> No, I am not a professional but as an intercessor, I know how to >> pray and The True Lord Jesus Christ still knows how to heal. If, on >> the other hand, you require professional help, by all means, find >> someone to help you make the right medical decisions. >> >> >> Safe Place Fellowship >> Phil Scovell >> Denver, Colorado USA >> Mountain Time Zone >> WWW.SafePlaceFellowship.COM >> >> >> On 9/20/12, Sarah wrote: >>> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't >>> talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if >>> things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >>> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing >>> them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness >>> was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're >>> autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Lavonya Gardner >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >>> >>> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They >>> seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now >>> I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at >>> a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on >>> the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad >>> much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >>> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your >>> interests? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi nabs students readers >>> >>> I hope you all are doing well. >>> >>> >>> Anyway >>> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >>> >>> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and >>> things. >>> >>> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me >>> and things. >>> every time after the service is over they just talk to each >>> other's >>> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often >>> left >>> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all >>> together >>> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going >>> out >>> to lunch and things like that. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From wmodnl at hotmail.com Thu Sep 20 20:56:56 2012 From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:56:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> Message-ID: Maybe, they are typing using an electronic Braille Notetaker, so "BA" is meant to represent 21. Someone else wrote something like BJ or CJ earlier. I would surmise that they meant 30, 40, ETC. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 2:18 PM, "Carly Mihalakis" wrote: > What the hell does BA years old, mean?PM 9/19/2012, Humberto Avila wrote: >> Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. >> (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old >> anymore.. Smile!*** >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello Sarah, >> "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm >> totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could >> >> say second octave b :)... >> So nice to have you on the list! >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 21:05:10 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:05:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003c01cd9773$9f780a90$de681fb0$@gmail.com> If you know braille, I meant to joke with the way the Braille should be written like by taking the number sign off. Maybe there are some people in here that need to learn? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of wmodnl wmodnl Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings Maybe, they are typing using an electronic Braille Notetaker, so "BA" is meant to represent 21. Someone else wrote something like BJ or CJ earlier. I would surmise that they meant 30, 40, ETC. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 2:18 PM, "Carly Mihalakis" wrote: > What the hell does BA years old, mean?PM 9/19/2012, Humberto Avila wrote: >> Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, yet. >> (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years old >> anymore.. Smile!*** >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello Sarah, >> "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm >> totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I could >> >> say second octave b :)... >> So nice to have you on the list! >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sarah >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >> tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >> Hello, >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >> cultures. >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >> conversation. It is >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >> or more >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >> almost always. >> >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >> cultures. A >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >> big eyes >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >> front facing >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >> balloon and >> the string is on your finger... >> >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >> it means >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >> glee club, >> getting in a relationship, dating... >> >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >> world without >> some sighted help. >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >> blind >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >> parents will >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >> with >> questions like this they are invaluable... >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >> your heart, as >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >> terrified of >> something? >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat >> social gatherings >> >> Hi all, >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >> called >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >> names >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >> there is >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >> both. >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >> nonjudgmental >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >> and >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >> place >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >> Also, >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >> majority >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >> teachers >> and authority figures to a minimum. >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >> "blind-dating" perhaps. >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >> be >> happy to help out with it. >> >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >> only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >> really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >> a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >> go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >> contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >> organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >> situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >> choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >> I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >> social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >> would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >> will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >> doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >> problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >> student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >> things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >> whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >> jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >> acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >> that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >> Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >> offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >> or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >> matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >> they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >> whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >> to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >> anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >> treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >> and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >> just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >> as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >> someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >> of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >> of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >> woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >> Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >> for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >> which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >> are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >> are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >> can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >> message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >> formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >> and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >> has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >> mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >> effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >> right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >> judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >> someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >> should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >> people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >> out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >> of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >> with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >> the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >> or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >> weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >> probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >> that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >> activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >> and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >> workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >> have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >> on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >> The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >> I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >> to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >> didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >> even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >> sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >> mcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >> 40yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >> s%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> se%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g mail.com From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Sep 20 21:05:20 2012 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1348175120.33553.YahooMailClassic@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> If you mean a note taking device like Braille Note or Packmate, they should if it is for college or work. DSB does and will purchase a notetaking technology, you just need to justify it. You can also apeal to CAPS your counselor's decision. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 7:09 AM > Wow! > That's correct! > I found out from a friend, who also posts on this list, that > her state's commission for the blind, (a blind only > service,) will do things that VR won't do. > VR won't help me with a notetaker, so if we had a separate > commission, I'm sure they'd help me in the purchase of one. > Blessings, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > on behalf of David Andrews [dandrews at visi.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:58 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I just discovered something! > > Lets define our terms, so we are talking about the same > thing.  First > services can be delivered to blind persons as part of a > "combined" > agency, that is blind services and general rehab, other > disabilities > are all delivered from the same department. > r, services for the blind can be delivered from a department > agency, > not a part of the general agency.  This separate agency > may or may > not be a Commission..  I would define a Commission as a > separate > agency that has a governing body, and that this body ideally > be > composed of a majority of blind persons, and it governs the > agency, > sets policies, hires a director etc. > > I could be wrong but think that around half, probably a few > less, > have blind-only agencies.   Of these -- how > many are Commissions -- I > don't officially know, but think the number is relatively > small I > would guess s 5 to 10. > > Dave > > > At 05:33 AM 9/20/2012, you wrote: > >Arkansas doesn't have a state commission for the blind! > >How many states don't have commissions? > >Thanks, Joshua > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 22:25:32 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:25:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <003c01cd9773$9f780a90$de681fb0$@gmail.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> <003c01cd9773$9f780a90$de681fb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Brandon, I'm going to be really anal because I feel like it right now. Earlier you were talkibg about how we shouldn't be stereotypical and generalize about different groups of people, then you went on to say that only really old people are against women going into STEM fields. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't mean every single elderly person but, you know, it sounded like you were stereotyping without even realizing it. That whole idea of unwhittingly stereotyping is something I see happening here, a lot, right now. We say "sitting on the front of our seat makes us look weird to sighted people" (I'm paraphrasing because I don't want to pull a Mark Workman and copy/paste), you say "swaying in conversation looks weird to a sighted person unless you happen to be a jew studying torah then it's ok," etc etc ad noseum. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting you with my paraphrasing, but your meaning seemed fairly straightforward to me. Learning how to fit in is all well and good but I think some of us are making the very harmful mistake of lumping sighted people together in to one cohesive group, as if they all have the same social norms and preferences. As far as I know, the only near-human universals, that apply in pretty much every culture are the outlawing of murder, rape and canabolism; I'd throw the golden rule in there too but that one can be debated. I fail to see how not swaying, or having straight posture, or dressing a certain way is anything close to a human universal. There are no "unwritten rules" which will get you through every social situation. Human interactions are diverse, complex, and nuanced. fitting in is not a science where following certain existing equations will get you the right answer all the time. In a sense, it's not even a skill because being able to fit in with one group doesn't make you the kind of person who'll fit in with any group. (imagine Sean Whalen trying to pass as a right-wing fundamentalist, or how about Joshua Lester trying to fit in as a progressive secular humanist...it just doesn't work.) That's why I say there are no set rules; while it's certainly helpful to get feedback from well-established members of groups we want to fit in with about things we can improve on, if we so choose, it's not like there is some hard fast way to be socially acceptable. It depends on what group you're trying to be accepted by, and I'll leave it at that. Best, Kirt On 9/20/12, Humberto Avila wrote: > If you know braille, I meant to joke with the way the Braille should be > written like by taking the number sign off. Maybe there are some people in > here that need to learn? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of wmodnl wmodnl > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > > Maybe, they are typing using an electronic Braille Notetaker, so "BA" is > meant to represent 21. Someone else wrote something like BJ or CJ earlier. > I would surmise that they meant 30, 40, ETC. > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 20, 2012, at 2:18 PM, "Carly Mihalakis" > wrote: > >> What the hell does BA years old, mean?PM 9/19/2012, Humberto Avila wrote: >>> Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, > yet. >>> (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years > old >>> anymore.. Smile!*** >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >>> Of Brandon Keith Biggs >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello Sarah, >>> "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). >>> I'm >>> totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I > could >>> >>> say second octave b :)... >>> So nice to have you on the list! >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sarah >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> 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your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 00:52:12 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:52:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920124614.01e3ce18@comcast.net> References: <505b3d3e.a5e4440a.389d.7086@mx.google.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920100453.01e33da8@comcast.net> <5CD42597-F574-46BD-A3A5-88F4B577F8DA@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920124614.01e3ce18@comcast.net> Message-ID: I just did my daughter's hair, I love to travel, and go to conventions. You would b should if you new where I have the most trouble fitting in. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 15:46, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > You go girl!At 11:23 AM 9/20/2012, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> I love me as I am. (blind and autistic.) there's nothing "wrong" with either. I live on my own, raise my 7 year autistic daughter, go to class/work adjustment program, and do as I please, with support, but I do it. I dance do speeches and write books. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 20, 2012, at 13:07, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> > Good morning, Lavonya, >> > >> > You know, in some cultures (the one that comes to mind is the Hmong) people with an affect like your's are considdered to be healers, or shamen. >> > The church people, then, clearly are missing out! Don't they know there is room for everyone??? >> > At 08:58 AM 9/20/2012, Sarah wrote: >> >> That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Lavonya Gardner > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Date sent: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:16:44 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> >> >> I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. >> >> They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> >> >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Lavonya Gardner > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. >> >> Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway >> >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. >> >> >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. >> >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's >> >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left >> >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together >> >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out >> >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> >> r%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >> >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From trising at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 21 00:52:59 2012 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:52:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for improving Braille Reading Speeds. 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. The index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. Terri Wilcox From coastergirl92 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 01:26:20 2012 From: coastergirl92 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 18:26:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Message-ID: <505bc246.e6e5440a.5aba.ffff9f65@mx.google.com> I can't accept changes very good. I have meltdowns very easily and suffer from panic attacks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: That sounds like a horrible discriminating church if you ask me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade r%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 %40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 02:45:46 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what would I know about that! On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told him > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> 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_______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 02:56:27 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:56:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> Desiree, I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see. If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter case. I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a movie" or "I watched a tv show". Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what would I know about that! On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with > no > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told > him > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as > me > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 03:20:20 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:20:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> References: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <005c01cd97a8$08914350$19b3c9f0$@gmail.com> Here is something that you can do. It is the exception of following mainstream vocabulary like the sighted. When your Mom or your spouse says, "well, see you tomorrow, good night." Then you can say, "well, I won't see you tomorrow, I can't see you!" * smile * P.S., the best way to approach these things, are with sense of humor. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Desiree, I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see. If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter case. I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a movie" or "I watched a tv show". Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what would I know about that! On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with > no > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told > him > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as > me > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 03:27:45 2012 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <005c01cd97a8$08914350$19b3c9f0$@gmail.com> References: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> <005c01cd97a8$08914350$19b3c9f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Haha, I've used that one a lot with friends. I like it. But people in positions of authority really seem to say these things for a totally different reason, and their intentions are far from friendly. As i said, my former English teacher was really very aggressive when she went off on me for using what to me seem like common enough words. What I really should have done was cursed her out just to see what offended her more. On 9/20/12, Humberto Avila wrote: > Here is something that you can do. It is the exception of following > mainstream vocabulary like the sighted. When your Mom or your spouse says, > "well, see you tomorrow, good night." Then you can say, "well, I won't see > you tomorrow, I can't see you!" * smile * > > P.S., the best way to approach these things, are with sense of humor. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > > Desiree, > I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see. > If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see > you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter > case. > I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of > english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a > movie" or "I watched a tv show". > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > societyatsocial gatherings > > The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the > computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A > movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken > in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're > doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds > weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could > if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, > I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. > As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching > something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really > mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to > say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand > them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't > included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said > in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because > apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what > would I know about that! > > On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with >> no >> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told >> him >> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as >> me >> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>> cultures. >>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>> conversation. It is >>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>> or more >>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>> almost always. >>>> >>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>> cultures. A >>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>> big eyes >>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>> front facing >>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>> balloon and >>>> the string is on your finger... >>>> >>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>> it means >>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>> glee club, >>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>> >>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>> world without >>>> some sighted help. >>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>> blind >>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>> parents will >>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>> with >>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>> your heart, as >>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>> terrified of >>>> something? >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyat >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>> called >>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>> names >>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>> there is >>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>> both. >>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>> nonjudgmental >>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>> and >>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>> place >>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>> Also, >>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>> majority >>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>> teachers >>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>> be >>>> happy to help out with it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>> Names: >>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>> >>>> Just some names... >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>> only thing >>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>> really >>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>> a cool >>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>> go >>>> that route. >>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>> contension on >>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>> organization's >>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>> situations >>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>> choose, >>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>> I >>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>> social >>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>> would help >>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>> will >>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>> doing >>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>> problem, >>>> it's just something to consider. >>>> >>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>> student and >>>> NFB's >>>> >>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>> things. So >>>> I >>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>> whatnot to >>>> be >>>> >>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>> jump at the >>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>> acceptable blind or >>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>> that >>>> someone >>>> >>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>> Because this is >>>> such a big issue. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>> offending >>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>> or >>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>> matter >>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>> they fit >>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>> whether >>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>> to >>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>> anyone >>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>> treated >>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>> and >>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>> just as >>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>> as our >>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>> someone >>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>> >>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>> of >>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>> of >>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>> woman >>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>> Jason >>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>> for >>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marc Workman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>> >>>> Chris wrote, >>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>> which >>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>> are >>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>> >>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>> >>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>> are >>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>> can >>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>> message >>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>> formation >>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>> and >>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>> >>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>> has >>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>> mostly >>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>> effort >>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>> right >>>> way to act. >>>> >>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>> judge >>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>> someone >>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>> should >>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>> people >>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>> >>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>> message. >>>> >>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>> out >>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>> of >>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>> sex. There is >>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>> with >>>> some >>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>> :) >>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>> sighted >>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>> the >>>> blind >>>> community. >>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>> or >>>> not) have >>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>> against the grain >>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>> suggested that >>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>> world thinks. >>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>> looks at a >>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>> weird. >>>> or a >>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>> him and when >>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>> really weird and >>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>> both sexual >>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>> of attention >>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>> aren't meant >>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>> would greatly >>>> improve convention. >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>> Whozit >>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>> probably >>>> some >>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>> that >>>> NABS >>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>> activity >>>> among >>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>> position, >>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>> extension, an >>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>> or >>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>> and >>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>> diversity >>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>> available >>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>> fact, >>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>> workshop >>>> about >>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>> have >>>> never >>>> seen >>>> >>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>> having to >>>> be >>>> >>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>> condoms in >>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>> browsing... >>>> Condoms, >>>> >>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>> probably need >>>> to >>>> >>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>> on >>>> a condom >>>> or >>>> >>>> use a dental dam. >>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>> The >>>> packing >>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>> I >>>> for one >>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>> that sell >>>> hot >>>> >>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>> to >>>> buy a box >>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>> (Then of >>>> course >>>> >>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>> didn't >>>> bring >>>> their >>>> >>>> own utensil's). >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> >>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>> convention... >>>> >>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>> even >>>> braille >>>> them >>>> >>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>> sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>> >>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>> presume? >>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>> are kind of in a >>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>> for this list, since >>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>> unique to blindness. >>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>> too far afield, I >>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>> also think that >>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>> legitimate one and >>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>> including teenagers, >>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>> condoms, birth control or >>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>> awkwardness or >>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>> you have to depend >>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>> transportation which can make >>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>> including >>>> www.condomania.com >>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>> and >>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>> choices at >>>> www.amazon.com >>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>> about condoms. >>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>> having sex with a >>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>> decision. However, I feel >>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>> sex for the first >>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>> options are for preventing >>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>> advantages and >>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>> to use condoms and >>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>> websites with this kind >>>> of information: >>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>> or >>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>> the moment because my >>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>> pregnancy at a very >>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>> guy she had only >>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>> birth control pills, >>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>> don't believe that >>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>> takes some responsibility, >>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>> while minimizing the >>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>> there are other ways >>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>> less risky, which >>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>> of you might also be >>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>> parents drive you to >>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>> sit in or even >>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>> college in my home >>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>> doctors' appointments >>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>> doctor while he/she >>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>> parents and I saw many of >>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>> good opportunity to >>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>> health while she was >>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>> doctor recommended >>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>> realized that while it >>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>> privacy as an adult >>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>> room while I was seeing >>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>> until I was 21 and in >>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>> By the time you are 18, >>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>> you have a right to >>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>> important to establish a >>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>> person interfering. >>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>> health and by the time >>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>> discussing your sexual >>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>> your parents being >>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>> driver or even >>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>> this problem. >>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>> school, you should know >>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>> regular basis and any >>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>> ever have to go to the >>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>> be requested of you. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>> %40samobile.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>> mcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>> 40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>> s%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 03:53:12 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:53:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: <470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC> Joshua, I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a different way with other senses or something like. IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing sight. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," I get, "How do you watch it?" When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! It gets old! Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not helping by spurring that misconception on. On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > tv, dogs and horses > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyatsocial gatherings > > Hello, > There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > cultures. > For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > conversation. It is > only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > or more > heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > almost always. > > Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > cultures. A > smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > big eyes > with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > front facing > up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > balloon and > the string is on your finger... > > Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > it means > one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > glee club, > getting in a relationship, dating... > > I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > world without > some sighted help. > Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > blind > people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > parents will > help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > with > questions like this they are invaluable... > Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > your heart, as > if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > terrified of > something? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat > social gatherings > > Hi all, > Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > called > "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > names > imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > there is > only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > both. > I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > nonjudgmental > forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > and > get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > place > where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > Also, > while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > majority > of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > teachers > and authority figures to a minimum. > I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > "blind-dating" perhaps. > If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > be > happy to help out with it. > > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Names: > See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > talk sightless (TSightless) > > Just some names... > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > only thing > holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > really > think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > a cool > idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > go > that route. > Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > contension on > the list. I don't want people going to war over which > organization's > philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > situations > better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > choose, > but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > I > want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > social > awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > would help > them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > will > that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > doing > so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > problem, > it's just something to consider. > > On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: > Hello, > Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > student and > NFB's > > student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > things. So > I > really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > whatnot to > be > > on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > jump at the > chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > Just make a group, possibly: > bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > acceptable blind or > > a > > cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > I even think this should have a website with different articles > that > someone > > can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > Because this is > such a big issue. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Desiree Oudinot > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted > societyat > > social gatherings > > And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > offending > people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > or > ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > matter > their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > they fit > in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > whether > they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > to > follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > anyone > what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > treated > like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > and > the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > just as > crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > as our > hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > someone > actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > > On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > of > me because it just does for some reason. > 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > of > themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > woman > cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > Jason > can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > for > nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > wife. You will be poor." No way. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marc Workman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > sighted societyat social gatherings > > Chris wrote, > Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > which > our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > are > weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > > Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > self-loathing, and anguish. > > We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > interested. > > Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > are > accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > can > follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > message > should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > formation > of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > and > your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > > By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > has > to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > mostly > unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > effort > similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > right > way to act. > > This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > judge > or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > someone > who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > should > work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > people > how to look and act like sighted people. > > Regards, > > Marc > On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > wrote: > > Hi Brandon and all, > > I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > message. > > Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > out > from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > of > a future NABS membership call. > > Just my thoughts, > > Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hello, > We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > sex. There is > a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > with > some > practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > :) > I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > sighted > community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > the > blind > community. > I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > or > not) have > some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > against the grain > of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > suggested that > the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > world thinks. > Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > looks at a > gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > weird. > or a > sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > him and when > she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > really weird and > she turns around and walks a mile away. > This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > both sexual > health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > of attention > among blind individuals, and students in particular. > I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > aren't meant > to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > would greatly > improve convention. > Thank you, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > Whozit > condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > probably > some > NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > that > NABS > selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > activity > among > young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > position, > but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > extension, an > NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > or > bringing on an unwanted political debate. > I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > and > perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > diversity > camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > available > as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > fact, > this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > workshop > about > sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > Arielle > > On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > have > never > seen > > a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > having to > be > > embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > condoms in > the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > browsing... > Condoms, > > lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > probably need > to > > provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > on > a condom > or > > use a dental dam. > Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > The > packing > guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > I > for one > don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > that sell > hot > > serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > to > buy a box > for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > (Then of > course > > we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > didn't > bring > their > > own utensil's). > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > > You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > convention... > > Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > even > braille > them > > so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > From: Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > , "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list" > > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > Hi, Brandon, > > I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > wrote: > > Hello, > Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > knows that site is trust worthy. > I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > presume? > Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > the experience is often not pleasant. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > Silverman > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > > Hi all, > I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > are kind of in a > gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > for this list, since > most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > unique to blindness. > So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > too far afield, I > will happily respect your judgment. However, I > also think that > Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > legitimate one and > that there might be other blind people out here, > including teenagers, > who have similar concerns about how to get > condoms, birth control or > sexual health information without a lot of > awkwardness or > embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > you have to depend > on someone else (especially parents) for > transportation which can make > going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > There are a few places to buy condoms online, > including > www.condomania.com > www.undercovercondoms.com > and > www.condomdepot.com > Believe it or not, they also have some condom > choices at > www.amazon.com > If you go to your health center on campus for any > reason, it shouldn't > be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > about condoms. > I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > having sex with a > partner because that is a highly individual > decision. However, I feel > it important that anyone who is considering having > sex for the first > time ensure you understand what all of your > options are for preventing > pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > advantages and > disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > to use condoms and > birth control. There are a couple different > websites with this kind > of information: > www.plannedparenthood.org > (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > or > www.scarleteen.com > This issue is particularly close to my heart at > the moment because my > boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > pregnancy at a very > inopportune time (while still in college, with a > guy she had only > known for a few months) and was apparently taking > birth control pills, > but had not been taking them consistently. While I > don't believe that > sex should be feared, it is something that > takes some responsibility, > planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > while minimizing the > risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > there are other ways > to be physically intimate with someone that are > less risky, which > these online forums will talk about. > I also want to bring up an issue that is > somewhat relevant to sexual > health, which I experienced and I think that some > of you might also be > struggling with. This is the issue of having your > parents drive you to > doctors' appointments and then having them want to > sit in or even > participate in your appointments. Since I attended > college in my home > city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > doctors' appointments > and would then want to come in and chat with the > doctor while he/she > was examining me. This was partly because my > parents and I saw many of > the same doctors and she often thought it was a > good opportunity to > ask the doctor a quick question about her own > health while she was > there, or because she was curious to see what the > doctor recommended > to me about a particular issue. I eventually > realized that while it > wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > privacy as an adult > patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > room while I was seeing > the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > until I was 21 and in > hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > By the time you are 18, > unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > you have a right to > privacy of your medical information and it is > important to establish a > good doctor-patient relationship without a third > person interfering. > This is especially true when it comes to sexual > health and by the time > you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > discussing your sexual > activities or questions with your doctors without > your parents being > around. You might also want to consider getting a > driver or even > taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > this problem. > On a related note, by the time you are in high > school, you should know > the names of all medications you take on a > regular basis and any > chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > ever have to go to the > emergency room, this kind of information may > be requested of you. > Best, > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > %40samobile.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > mcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > 40yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > s%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > se%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > iggs%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 03:58:08 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:58:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2A93B3A64A81461FA7F9B68011DF24F6@OwnerPC> Lavanya, that sounds harsh. Could you find another church? -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. Sent from my iPad On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? > Sounds like discrimination to me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be > fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. > 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I > am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, > but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my > interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your > interests? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's > friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left > sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together > and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out > to lunch and things like that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 04:04:20 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 00:04:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfitinwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <505b3d38.a5e4440a.389d.7082@mx.google.com> References: <505b3d38.a5e4440a.389d.7082@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9DC609CEAA0F48A282457E82EDAAC919@OwnerPC> thanks, that makes sense because it becomes those numbers with a number sign. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we canfitinwith sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings I think it was supposed to mean twenty-one and twenty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of me because it just does for some reason. 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Workman wrote: Hi Brandon and all, I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS membership call. Just my thoughts, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" , "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that. Car Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Joshua, >I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a >different way with other senses or something like. >IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing sight. > >-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >societyatsocial gatherings > >I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," >I get, "How do you watch it?" >When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >It gets old! >Blessings, Joshua > >________________________________________ >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >societyatsocial gatherings > >Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >helping by spurring that misconception on. > >On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>tv, dogs and horses >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>sighted societyatsocial gatherings >> >>Hello, >>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>cultures. >>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>conversation. It is >>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>or more >>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>almost always. >> >>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>cultures. A >>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>big eyes >>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>front facing >>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>balloon and >>the string is on your finger... >> >>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>it means >>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>glee club, >>getting in a relationship, dating... >> >>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>world without >>some sighted help. >>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>blind >>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>parents will >>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>with >>questions like this they are invaluable... >>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>your heart, as >>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>terrified of >>something? >>Thanks, >> >>Brandon Keith Biggs >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Arielle Silverman >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>sighted societyat >>social gatherings >> >>Hi all, >>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>called >>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>names >>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>there is >>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>both. >>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>nonjudgmental >>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>and >>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>place >>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>Also, >>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>majority >>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>teachers >>and authority figures to a minimum. >>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>"blind-dating" perhaps. >>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>be >>happy to help out with it. >> >> >>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>wrote: >> Names: >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >> talk sightless (TSightless) >> >> Just some names... >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>only thing >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>really >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>a cool >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>go >> that route. >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>contension on >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>organization's >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>situations >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>choose, >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>I >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>social >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>would help >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>will >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>doing >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>problem, >> it's just something to consider. >> >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>wrote: >> Hello, >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>student and >> NFB's >> >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>things. So >> I >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>whatnot to >> be >> >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>jump at the >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >> Just make a group, possibly: >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>acceptable blind or >> >> a >> >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>that >> someone >> >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>Because this is >> such a big issue. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Desiree Oudinot >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>sighted >> societyat >> >> social gatherings >> >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>offending >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>or >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>matter >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>they fit >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>whether >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>to >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>anyone >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>treated >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>and >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>just as >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>as our >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>someone >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >> >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>of >> me because it just does for some reason. >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>of >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>woman >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>Jason >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>for >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >> wife. You will be poor." No way. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marc Workman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >> sighted societyat social gatherings >> >> Chris wrote, >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>which >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>are >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >> >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >> self-loathing, and anguish. >> >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >> interested. >> >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>are >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>can >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>message >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>formation >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>and >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >> >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>has >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>mostly >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>effort >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>right >> way to act. >> >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>judge >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>someone >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>should >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>people >> how to look and act like sighted people. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >> wrote: >> >> Hi Brandon and all, >> >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >> message. >> >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>out >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>of >> a future NABS membership call. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> >> Chris >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hello, >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >> sex. There is >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>with >> some >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >> :) >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >> sighted >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>the >> blind >> community. >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>or >> not) have >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >> against the grain >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >> suggested that >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >> world thinks. >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >> looks at a >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>weird. >> or a >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >> him and when >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >> really weird and >> she turns around and walks a mile away. >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >> both sexual >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >> of attention >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >> aren't meant >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >> would greatly >> improve convention. >> Thank you, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >> Whozit >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>probably >> some >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>that >> NABS >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>activity >> among >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >> position, >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >> extension, an >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >> or >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>and >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >> diversity >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >> available >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >> fact, >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>workshop >> about >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > wrote: >> Hello, >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>have >> never >> seen >> >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >> having to >> be >> >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >> condoms in >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >> browsing... >> Condoms, >> >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >> probably need >> to >> >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>on >> a condom >> or >> >> use a dental dam. >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>The >> packing >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>I >> for one >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >> that sell >> hot >> >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>to >> buy a box >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >> (Then of >> course >> >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>didn't >> bring >> their >> >> own utensil's). >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >> convention... >> >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>even >> braille >> them >> >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >> >> Anmol >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis > wrote: >> >> From: Carly Mihalakis > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> , "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing >> list" >> >> > Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >> Hi, Brandon, >> >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >> knows that site is trust worthy. >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >> presume? >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >> the experience is often not pleasant. >> Thanks, >> >> Brandon Keith Biggs >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >> Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >> >> Hi all, >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >> are kind of in a >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >> for this list, since >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >> unique to blindness. >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >> too far afield, I >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >> also think that >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >> legitimate one and >> that there might be other blind people out here, >> including teenagers, >> who have similar concerns about how to get >> condoms, birth control or >> sexual health information without a lot of >> awkwardness or >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >> you have to depend >> on someone else (especially parents) for >> transportation which can make >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >> including >> www.condomania.com >> www.undercovercondoms.com >> and >> www.condomdepot.com >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >> choices at >> www.amazon.com >> If you go to your health center on campus for any >> reason, it shouldn't >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >> about condoms. >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >> having sex with a >> partner because that is a highly individual >> decision. However, I feel >> it important that anyone who is considering having >> sex for the first >> time ensure you understand what all of your >> options are for preventing >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >> advantages and >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >> to use condoms and >> birth control. There are a couple different >> websites with this kind >> of information: >> www.plannedparenthood.org >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >> or >> www.scarleteen.com >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >> the moment because my >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >> pregnancy at a very >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >> guy she had only >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >> birth control pills, >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >> don't believe that >> sex should be feared, it is something that >> takes some responsibility, >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >> while minimizing the >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >> there are other ways >> to be physically intimate with someone that are >> less risky, which >> these online forums will talk about. >> I also want to bring up an issue that is >> somewhat relevant to sexual >> health, which I experienced and I think that some >> of you might also be >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >> parents drive you to >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >> sit in or even >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >> college in my home >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >> doctors' appointments >> and would then want to come in and chat with the >> doctor while he/she >> was examining me. This was partly because my >> parents and I saw many of >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >> good opportunity to >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >> health while she was >> there, or because she was curious to see what the >> doctor recommended >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >> realized that while it >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >> privacy as an adult >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >> room while I was seeing >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >> until I was 21 and in >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >> By the time you are 18, >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >> you have a right to >> privacy of your medical information and it is >> important to establish a >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >> person interfering. >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >> health and by the time >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >> discussing your sexual >> activities or questions with your doctors without >> your parents being >> around. You might also want to consider getting a >> driver or even >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >> this problem. >> On a related note, by the time you are in high >> school, you should know >> the names of all medications you take on a >> regular basis and any >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >> ever have to go to the >> emergency room, this kind of information may >> be requested of you. >> Best, >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >> iggs%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for nabs-l: >> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >> %40samobile.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options 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>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 05:44:23 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:44:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carley, Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments here. On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any > of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just > not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal > than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring > himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that. > Car Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>Joshua, >>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a >>different way with other senses or something like. >>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing >> sight. >> >>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>societyatsocial gatherings >> >>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," >>I get, "How do you watch it?" >>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >>It gets old! >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>societyatsocial gatherings >> >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>>Hello, >>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>cultures. >>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>conversation. It is >>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>or more >>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>almost always. >>> >>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>cultures. A >>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>big eyes >>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>front facing >>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>balloon and >>>the string is on your finger... >>> >>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>it means >>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>glee club, >>>getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>world without >>>some sighted help. >>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>blind >>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>parents will >>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>with >>>questions like this they are invaluable... >>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>your heart, as >>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>terrified of >>>something? >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Arielle Silverman >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyat >>>social gatherings >>> >>>Hi all, >>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>called >>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>names >>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>there is >>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>both. >>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>nonjudgmental >>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>and >>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>place >>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>Also, >>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>majority >>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>teachers >>>and authority figures to a minimum. >>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>"blind-dating" perhaps. >>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>be >>>happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>> s%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>> se%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>mail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From clb5590 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 06:15:34 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:15:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the speeding up thing but a few times. Cindy On 9/20/12, trising wrote: > Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for > improving Braille Reading Speeds. > 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. > 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. The > index fingers give details but the tall fingers and > ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every > letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither > does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. > 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano > hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their > palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. > 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands together > until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The > left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, while > the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are > braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes > perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep > practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. > > Terri Wilcox > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Sep 21 06:39:24 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:39:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920233749.01dae940@comcast.net> Hi, Steve, You ffought that nonsense, didn't you in the name of writing, of artistic expression? Edited you? I, for one am outraged!At 07:45 PM 9/20/2012, you wrote: >The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >would I know about that! > >On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no > > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when > I told him > > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me > > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Steve > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > > > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >>> tv, dogs and horses > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >>> cultures. > >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >>> conversation. It is > >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >>> or more > >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >>> almost always. > >>> > >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >>> cultures. A > >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >>> big eyes > >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >>> front facing > >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >>> balloon and > >>> the string is on your finger... > >>> > >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >>> it means > >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >>> glee club, > >>> getting in a relationship, dating... > >>> > >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >>> world without > >>> some sighted help. > >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >>> blind > >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >>> parents will > >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >>> with > >>> questions like this they are invaluable... > >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >>> your heart, as > >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >>> terrified of > >>> something? > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted societyat > >>> social gatherings > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >>> called > >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >>> names > >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >>> there is > >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >>> both. > >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >>> nonjudgmental > >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >>> and > >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >>> place > >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >>> Also, > >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >>> majority > >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >>> teachers > >>> and authority figures to a minimum. > >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >>> be > >>> happy to help out with it. > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> wrote: > >>> Names: > >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >>> talk sightless (TSightless) > >>> > >>> Just some names... > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted > >>> societyat > >>> > >>> social gatherings > >>> > >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >>> only thing > >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >>> really > >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >>> a cool > >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >>> go > >>> that route. > >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >>> contension on > >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >>> organization's > >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >>> situations > >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >>> choose, > >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >>> I > >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >>> social > >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >>> would help > >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >>> will > >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >>> doing > >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >>> problem, > >>> it's just something to consider. > >>> > >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >>> student and > >>> NFB's > >>> > >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >>> things. So > >>> I > >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >>> whatnot to > >>> be > >>> > >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >>> jump at the > >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >>> Just make a group, possibly: > >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >>> acceptable blind or > >>> > >>> a > >>> > >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >>> that > >>> someone > >>> > >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >>> Because this is > >>> such a big issue. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted > >>> societyat > >>> > >>> social gatherings > >>> > >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >>> offending > >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >>> or > >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >>> matter > >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >>> they fit > >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >>> whether > >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >>> to > >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >>> anyone > >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >>> treated > >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >>> and > >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >>> just as > >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >>> as our > >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >>> someone > >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >>> > >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >>> of > >>> me because it just does for some reason. > >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >>> of > >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >>> woman > >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >>> Jason > >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >>> for > >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Marc Workman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted societyat social gatherings > >>> > >>> Chris wrote, > >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >>> which > >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >>> are > >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >>> > >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >>> self-loathing, and anguish. > >>> > >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >>> interested. > >>> > >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >>> are > >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >>> can > >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >>> message > >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >>> formation > >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >>> and > >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >>> > >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >>> has > >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >>> mostly > >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >>> effort > >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >>> right > >>> way to act. > >>> > >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >>> judge > >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >>> someone > >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >>> should > >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >>> people > >>> how to look and act like sighted people. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Marc > >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Brandon and all, > >>> > >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >>> message. > >>> > >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >>> out > >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >>> of > >>> a future NABS membership call. > >>> > >>> Just my thoughts, > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >>> sex. There is > >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >>> with > >>> some > >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >>> :) > >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >>> sighted > >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >>> the > >>> blind > >>> community. > >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >>> or > >>> not) have > >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >>> against the grain > >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >>> suggested that > >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >>> world thinks. > >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >>> looks at a > >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >>> weird. > >>> or a > >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >>> him and when > >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >>> really weird and > >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >>> both sexual > >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >>> of attention > >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >>> aren't meant > >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >>> would greatly > >>> improve convention. > >>> Thank you, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >>> Whozit > >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >>> probably > >>> some > >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >>> that > >>> NABS > >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >>> activity > >>> among > >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >>> position, > >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >>> extension, an > >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >>> or > >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >>> and > >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >>> diversity > >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >>> available > >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >>> fact, > >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >>> workshop > >>> about > >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >>> have > >>> never > >>> seen > >>> > >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >>> having to > >>> be > >>> > >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >>> condoms in > >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >>> browsing... > >>> Condoms, > >>> > >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >>> probably need > >>> to > >>> > >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >>> on > >>> a condom > >>> or > >>> > >>> use a dental dam. > >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >>> The > >>> packing > >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >>> I > >>> for one > >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >>> that sell > >>> hot > >>> > >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >>> to > >>> buy a box > >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >>> (Then of > >>> course > >>> > >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >>> didn't > >>> bring > >>> their > >>> > >>> own utensil's). > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> > >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >>> convention... > >>> > >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >>> even > >>> braille > >>> them > >>> > >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >>> > >>> Anmol > >>> > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >>> sad. > >>> Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >>> like a breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> , "National Association of Blind Students > >>> mailing > >>> list" > >>> > >>> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >>> Hi, Brandon, > >>> > >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >>> > >>> Respectfully, > >>> Jedi > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >>> knows that site is trust worthy. > >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >>> presume? > >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >>> the experience is often not pleasant. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >>> Silverman > >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >>> are kind of in a > >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >>> for this list, since > >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >>> unique to blindness. > >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >>> too far afield, I > >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >>> also think that > >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >>> legitimate one and > >>> that there might be other blind people out here, > >>> including teenagers, > >>> who have similar concerns about how to get > >>> condoms, birth control or > >>> sexual health information without a lot of > >>> awkwardness or > >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >>> you have to depend > >>> on someone else (especially parents) for > >>> transportation which can make > >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >>> including > >>> www.condomania.com > >>> www.undercovercondoms.com > >>> and > >>> www.condomdepot.com > >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >>> choices at > >>> www.amazon.com > >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >>> reason, it shouldn't > >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >>> about condoms. > >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >>> having sex with a > >>> partner because that is a highly individual > >>> decision. However, I feel > >>> it important that anyone who is considering having > >>> sex for the first > >>> time ensure you understand what all of your > >>> options are for preventing > >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >>> advantages and > >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >>> to use condoms and > >>> birth control. There are a couple different > >>> websites with this kind > >>> of information: > >>> www.plannedparenthood.org > >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >>> or > >>> www.scarleteen.com > >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >>> the moment because my > >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >>> pregnancy at a very > >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >>> guy she had only > >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >>> birth control pills, > >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >>> don't believe that > >>> sex should be feared, it is something that > >>> takes some responsibility, > >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >>> while minimizing the > >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >>> there are other ways > >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >>> less risky, which > >>> these online forums will talk about. > >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >>> somewhat relevant to sexual > >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >>> of you might also be > >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >>> parents drive you to > >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >>> sit in or even > >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >>> college in my home > >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >>> doctors' appointments > >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >>> doctor while he/she > >>> was examining me. This was partly because my > >>> parents and I saw many of > >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >>> good opportunity to > >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >>> health while she was > >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >>> doctor recommended > >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >>> realized that while it > >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >>> privacy as an adult > >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >>> room while I was seeing > >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >>> until I was 21 and in > >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >>> By the time you are 18, > >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >>> you have a right to > >>> privacy of your medical information and it is > >>> important to establish a > >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >>> person interfering. > >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >>> health and by the time > >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >>> discussing your sexual > >>> activities or questions with your doctors without > >>> your parents being > >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >>> driver or even > >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >>> this problem. > >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >>> school, you should know > >>> the names of all medications you take on a > >>> regular basis and any > >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >>> ever have to go to the > >>> emergency room, this kind of information may > >>> be requested of you. > >>> Best, > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >>> %40samobile.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >>> account info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > >>> mcast.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > >>> 40yahoo.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >>> mail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > >>> m%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > >>> s%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >>> se%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>> info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >>> mail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>> %40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson > %40visi.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Sep 21 07:09:34 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 00:09:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120921000909.01bf7718@comcast.net> Great, Ash!At 10:44 PM 9/20/2012, you wrote: >Carley, > Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally >disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen >just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments >here. > >On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any > > of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just > > not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal > > than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring > > himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that. > > Car Ashley Bramlett wrote: > >>Joshua, > >>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a > >>different way with other senses or something like. > >>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing > >> sight. > >> > >>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester > >>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM > >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > >>societyatsocial gatherings > >> > >>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," > >>I get, "How do you watch it?" > >>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! > >>It gets old! > >>Blessings, Joshua > >> > >>________________________________________ > >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on > >>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] > >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM > >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted > >>societyatsocial gatherings > >> > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >> > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >>>tv, dogs and horses > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >>> > >>>Hello, > >>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >>>cultures. > >>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >>>conversation. It is > >>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >>>or more > >>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >>>almost always. > >>> > >>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >>>cultures. A > >>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >>>big eyes > >>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >>>front facing > >>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >>>balloon and > >>>the string is on your finger... > >>> > >>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >>>it means > >>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >>>glee club, > >>>getting in a relationship, dating... > >>> > >>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >>>world without > >>>some sighted help. > >>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >>>blind > >>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >>>parents will > >>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >>>with > >>>questions like this they are invaluable... > >>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >>>your heart, as > >>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >>>terrified of > >>>something? > >>>Thanks, > >>> > >>>Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Arielle Silverman > >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>sighted societyat > >>>social gatherings > >>> > >>>Hi all, > >>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >>>called > >>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >>>names > >>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >>>there is > >>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >>>both. > >>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >>>nonjudgmental > >>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >>>and > >>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >>>place > >>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >>>Also, > >>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >>>majority > >>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >>>teachers > >>>and authority figures to a minimum. > >>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >>>"blind-dating" perhaps. > >>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >>>be > >>>happy to help out with it. > >>> > >>> > >>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>wrote: > >>> Names: > >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >>> talk sightless (TSightless) > >>> > >>> Just some names... > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>sighted > >>> societyat > >>> > >>> social gatherings > >>> > >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >>>only thing > >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >>>really > >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >>>a cool > >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >>>go > >>> that route. > >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >>>contension on > >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >>>organization's > >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >>>situations > >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >>>choose, > >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >>>I > >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >>>social > >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >>>would help > >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >>>will > >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >>>doing > >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >>>problem, > >>> it's just something to consider. > >>> > >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >>>student and > >>> NFB's > >>> > >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >>>things. So > >>> I > >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >>>whatnot to > >>> be > >>> > >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >>>jump at the > >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >>> Just make a group, possibly: > >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >>>acceptable blind or > >>> > >>> a > >>> > >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >>>that > >>> someone > >>> > >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >>>Because this is > >>> such a big issue. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>sighted > >>> societyat > >>> > >>> social gatherings > >>> > >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >>>offending > >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >>>or > >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >>>matter > >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >>>they fit > >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >>>whether > >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >>>to > >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >>>anyone > >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >>>treated > >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >>>and > >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >>>just as > >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >>>as our > >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >>>someone > >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >>> > >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >>>of > >>> me because it just does for some reason. > >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >>>of > >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >>>woman > >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >>>Jason > >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >>>for > >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Marc Workman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>> sighted societyat social gatherings > >>> > >>> Chris wrote, > >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >>>which > >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >>>are > >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >>> > >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >>> self-loathing, and anguish. > >>> > >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >>> interested. > >>> > >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >>>are > >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >>>can > >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >>>message > >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >>>formation > >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >>>and > >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >>> > >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >>>has > >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >>>mostly > >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >>>effort > >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >>>right > >>> way to act. > >>> > >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >>>judge > >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >>>someone > >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >>>should > >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >>>people > >>> how to look and act like sighted people. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Marc > >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Brandon and all, > >>> > >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >>> message. > >>> > >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >>>out > >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >>>of > >>> a future NABS membership call. > >>> > >>> Just my thoughts, > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >>> sex. There is > >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >>>with > >>> some > >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >>> :) > >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >>> sighted > >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >>>the > >>> blind > >>> community. > >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >>>or > >>> not) have > >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >>> against the grain > >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >>> suggested that > >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >>> world thinks. > >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >>> looks at a > >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >>>weird. > >>> or a > >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >>> him and when > >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >>> really weird and > >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >>> both sexual > >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >>> of attention > >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >>> aren't meant > >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >>> would greatly > >>> improve convention. > >>> Thank you, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >>> Whozit > >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >>>probably > >>> some > >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >>>that > >>> NABS > >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >>>activity > >>> among > >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >>> position, > >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >>> extension, an > >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >>> or > >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >>>and > >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >>> diversity > >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >>> available > >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >>> fact, > >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >>>workshop > >>> about > >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >>>have > >>> never > >>> seen > >>> > >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >>> having to > >>> be > >>> > >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >>> condoms in > >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >>> browsing... > >>> Condoms, > >>> > >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >>> probably need > >>> to > >>> > >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >>>on > >>> a condom > >>> or > >>> > >>> use a dental dam. > >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >>>The > >>> packing > >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >>>I > >>> for one > >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >>> that sell > >>> hot > >>> > >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >>>to > >>> buy a box > >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >>> (Then of > >>> course > >>> > >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >>>didn't > >>> bring > >>> their > >>> > >>> own utensil's). > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> > >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >>> convention... > >>> > >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >>>even > >>> braille > >>> them > >>> > >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >>> > >>> Anmol > >>> > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >>>sad. > >>> Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >>> like a breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> , "National Association of Blind Students > >>> mailing > >>> list" > >>> > >>> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >>> Hi, Brandon, > >>> > >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >>> > >>> Respectfully, > >>> Jedi > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>> >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >>> knows that site is trust worthy. > >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >>> presume? > >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >>> the experience is often not pleasant. > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >>> Silverman > >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >>> are kind of in a > >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >>> for this list, since > >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >>> unique to blindness. > >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >>> too far afield, I > >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >>> also think that > >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >>> legitimate one and > >>> that there might be other blind people out here, > >>> including teenagers, > >>> who have similar concerns about how to get > >>> condoms, birth control or > >>> sexual health information without a lot of > >>> awkwardness or > >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >>> you have to depend > >>> on someone else (especially parents) for > >>> transportation which can make > >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >>> including > >>> www.condomania.com > >>> www.undercovercondoms.com > >>> and > >>> www.condomdepot.com > >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >>> choices at > >>> www.amazon.com > >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >>> reason, it shouldn't > >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >>> about condoms. > >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >>> having sex with a > >>> partner because that is a highly individual > >>> decision. However, I feel > >>> it important that anyone who is considering having > >>> sex for the first > >>> time ensure you understand what all of your > >>> options are for preventing > >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >>> advantages and > >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >>> to use condoms and > >>> birth control. There are a couple different > >>> websites with this kind > >>> of information: > >>> www.plannedparenthood.org > >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >>> or > >>> www.scarleteen.com > >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >>> the moment because my > >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >>> pregnancy at a very > >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >>> guy she had only > >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >>> birth control pills, > >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >>> don't believe that > >>> sex should be feared, it is something that > >>> takes some responsibility, > >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >>> while minimizing the > >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >>> there are other ways > >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >>> less risky, which > >>> these online forums will talk about. > >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >>> somewhat relevant to sexual > >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >>> of you might also be > >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >>> parents drive you to > >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >>> sit in or even > >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >>> college in my home > >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >>> doctors' appointments > >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >>> doctor while he/she > >>> was examining me. This was partly because my > >>> parents and I saw many of > >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >>> good opportunity to > >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >>> health while she was > >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >>> doctor recommended > >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >>> realized that while it > >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >>> privacy as an adult > >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >>> room while I was seeing > >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >>> until I was 21 and in > >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >>> By the time you are 18, > >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >>> you have a right to > >>> privacy of your medical information and it is > >>> important to establish a > >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >>> person interfering. > >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >>> health and by the time > >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >>> discussing your sexual > >>> activities or questions with your doctors without > >>> your parents being > >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >>> driver or even > >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >>> this problem. > >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >>> school, you should know > >>> the names of all medications you take on a > >>> regular basis and any > >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >>> ever have to go to the > >>> emergency room, this kind of information may > >>> be requested of you. > >>> Best, > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >>> %40samobile.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 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>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>iggs%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>for nabs-l: > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>>%40gmail.com > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>nabs-l: > >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > %40gmail.com > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Fri Sep 21 07:13:37 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 00:13:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <003c01cd9773$9f780a90$de681fb0$@gmail.com> References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <001301cd96df$4d15a530$e740ef90$@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920111718.01e44148@comcast.net> <003c01cd9773$9f780a90$de681fb0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120921001248.01e155c0@comcast.net> Hi, I know braille but gues it goes to show how dense I am! Aren't you cute?At 02:05 PM 9/20/2012, you wrote: >If you know braille, I meant to joke with the way the Braille should be >written like by taking the number sign off. Maybe there are some people in >here that need to learn? > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of wmodnl wmodnl >Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:57 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > >Maybe, they are typing using an electronic Braille Notetaker, so "BA" is >meant to represent 21. Someone else wrote something like BJ or CJ earlier. >I would surmise that they meant 30, 40, ETC. > > >Sent from my iPad > >On Sep 20, 2012, at 2:18 PM, "Carly Mihalakis" wrote: > > > What the hell does BA years old, mean?PM 9/19/2012, Humberto Avila wrote: > >> Hey, I am BA years old, though I have never cquiired a college degree, >yet. > >> (smile!) I'm going to, someday, but by that time I will not be BA years >old > >> anymore.. Smile!*** > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf > >> Of Brandon Keith Biggs > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 8:13 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > >> > >> Hello Sarah, > >> "I am bj years old" That just made my day! I love knowing Braille :). I'm > >> totally going to say that next time someone asks me how old I am. Or I >could > >> > >> say second octave b :)... > >> So nice to have you on the list! > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Sarah > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:45 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings > >> > >> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >> tv, dogs and horses > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >> > >> Hello, > >> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >> cultures. > >> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >> conversation. It is > >> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >> or more > >> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >> almost always. > >> > >> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >> cultures. A > >> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >> big eyes > >> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >> front facing > >> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >> balloon and > >> the string is on your finger... > >> > >> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >> it means > >> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >> glee club, > >> getting in a relationship, dating... > >> > >> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >> world without > >> some sighted help. > >> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >> blind > >> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >> parents will > >> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >> with > >> questions like this they are invaluable... > >> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >> your heart, as > >> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >> terrified of > >> something? > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat > >> social gatherings > >> > >> Hi all, > >> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >> called > >> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >> names > >> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >> there is > >> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >> both. > >> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >> nonjudgmental > >> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >> and > >> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >> place > >> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >> Also, > >> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >> majority > >> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >> teachers > >> and authority figures to a minimum. > >> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >> be > >> happy to help out with it. > >> > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Names: > >> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >> talk sightless (TSightless) > >> > >> Just some names... > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >> only thing > >> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >> really > >> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >> a cool > >> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >> go > >> that route. > >> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >> contension on > >> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >> organization's > >> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >> situations > >> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >> choose, > >> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >> I > >> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >> social > >> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >> would help > >> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >> will > >> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >> doing > >> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >> problem, > >> it's just something to consider. > >> > >> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >> student and > >> NFB's > >> > >> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >> things. So > >> I > >> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >> whatnot to > >> be > >> > >> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >> jump at the > >> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >> Just make a group, possibly: > >> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >> acceptable blind or > >> > >> a > >> > >> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >> that > >> someone > >> > >> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >> Because this is > >> such a big issue. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Desiree Oudinot > >> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted > >> societyat > >> > >> social gatherings > >> > >> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >> offending > >> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >> or > >> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >> matter > >> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >> they fit > >> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >> whether > >> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >> to > >> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >> anyone > >> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >> treated > >> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >> and > >> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >> just as > >> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >> as our > >> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >> someone > >> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >> > >> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >> of > >> me because it just does for some reason. > >> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >> of > >> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >> woman > >> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >> Jason > >> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >> for > >> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >> Beth > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >> sighted societyat social gatherings > >> > >> Chris wrote, > >> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >> which > >> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >> are > >> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >> > >> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >> self-loathing, and anguish. > >> > >> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >> interested. > >> > >> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >> are > >> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >> can > >> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >> message > >> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >> formation > >> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >> and > >> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >> > >> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >> has > >> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >> mostly > >> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >> effort > >> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >> right > >> way to act. > >> > >> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >> judge > >> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >> someone > >> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >> should > >> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >> people > >> how to look and act like sighted people. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Marc > >> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Brandon and all, > >> > >> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >> message. > >> > >> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >> out > >> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >> of > >> a future NABS membership call. > >> > >> Just my thoughts, > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hello, > >> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >> sex. There is > >> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >> with > >> some > >> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >> :) > >> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >> sighted > >> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >> the > >> blind > >> community. > >> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >> or > >> not) have > >> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >> against the grain > >> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >> suggested that > >> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >> world thinks. > >> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >> looks at a > >> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >> weird. > >> or a > >> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >> him and when > >> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >> really weird and > >> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >> both sexual > >> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >> of attention > >> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >> aren't meant > >> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >> would greatly > >> improve convention. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Arielle Silverman > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >> Whozit > >> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >> probably > >> some > >> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >> that > >> NABS > >> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >> activity > >> among > >> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >> position, > >> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >> extension, an > >> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >> or > >> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >> and > >> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >> diversity > >> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >> available > >> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >> fact, > >> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >> workshop > >> about > >> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >> Arielle > >> > >> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: > >> Hello, > >> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >> have > >> never > >> seen > >> > >> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >> having to > >> be > >> > >> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >> condoms in > >> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >> browsing... > >> Condoms, > >> > >> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >> probably need > >> to > >> > >> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >> on > >> a condom > >> or > >> > >> use a dental dam. > >> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >> The > >> packing > >> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >> I > >> for one > >> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >> that sell > >> hot > >> > >> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >> to > >> buy a box > >> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >> (Then of > >> course > >> > >> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >> didn't > >> bring > >> their > >> > >> own utensil's). > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Anmol Bhatia > >> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> > >> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >> convention... > >> > >> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >> even > >> braille > >> them > >> > >> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >> > >> Anmol > >> > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >> sad. > >> Perhaps > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >> like a breeze > >> among flowers. > >> Hellen Keller > >> > >> > >> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: > >> > >> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> , "National Association of Blind Students > >> mailing > >> list" > >> > >> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >> Hi, Brandon, > >> > >> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >> > >> Respectfully, > >> Jedi > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >> knows that site is trust worthy. > >> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >> presume? > >> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >> the experience is often not pleasant. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Brandon Keith Biggs > >> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >> Silverman > >> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >> > >> Hi all, > >> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >> are kind of in a > >> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >> for this list, since > >> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >> unique to blindness. > >> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >> too far afield, I > >> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >> also think that > >> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >> legitimate one and > >> that there might be other blind people out here, > >> including teenagers, > >> who have similar concerns about how to get > >> condoms, birth control or > >> sexual health information without a lot of > >> awkwardness or > >> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >> you have to depend > >> on someone else (especially parents) for > >> transportation which can make > >> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >> including > >> www.condomania.com > >> www.undercovercondoms.com > >> and > >> www.condomdepot.com > >> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >> choices at > >> www.amazon.com > >> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >> reason, it shouldn't > >> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >> about condoms. > >> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >> having sex with a > >> partner because that is a highly individual > >> decision. However, I feel > >> it important that anyone who is considering having > >> sex for the first > >> time ensure you understand what all of your > >> options are for preventing > >> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >> advantages and > >> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >> to use condoms and > >> birth control. There are a couple different > >> websites with this kind > >> of information: > >> www.plannedparenthood.org > >> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >> or > >> www.scarleteen.com > >> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >> the moment because my > >> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >> pregnancy at a very > >> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >> guy she had only > >> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >> birth control pills, > >> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >> don't believe that > >> sex should be feared, it is something that > >> takes some responsibility, > >> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >> while minimizing the > >> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >> there are other ways > >> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >> less risky, which > >> these online forums will talk about. > >> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >> somewhat relevant to sexual > >> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >> of you might also be > >> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >> parents drive you to > >> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >> sit in or even > >> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >> college in my home > >> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >> doctors' appointments > >> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >> doctor while he/she > >> was examining me. This was partly because my > >> parents and I saw many of > >> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >> good opportunity to > >> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >> health while she was > >> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >> doctor recommended > >> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >> realized that while it > >> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >> privacy as an adult > >> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >> room while I was seeing > >> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >> until I was 21 and in > >> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >> By the time you are 18, > >> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >> you have a right to > >> privacy of your medical information and it is > >> important to establish a > >> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >> person interfering. > >> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >> health and by the time > >> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >> discussing your sexual > >> activities or questions with your doctors without > >> your parents being > >> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >> driver or even > >> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >> this problem. > >> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >> school, you should know > >> the names of all medications you take on a > >> regular basis and any > >> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >> ever have to go to the > >> emergency room, this kind of information may > >> be requested of you. > >> Best, > >> Arielle > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >> your account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >> %40samobile.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > >> mcast.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > >> 40yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > >> m%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > >> s%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info > >> for nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >> se%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >> info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >> iggs%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >> %40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > >> l.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g >mail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Fri Sep 21 10:07:31 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 06:07:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Ohio-talk] jobs at clovernook center for the blind and visually impaired in Cincinnati, ohio Message-ID: > >Hi everyone, > > > >I am wanting to spread the news that Clovernook Center for the Blind and >Visually Impaired have several job openings. Go to www.clovernook.org and >select a link that says employment. The positions and contact information >and a link to apply online is listed there. > > > >Some of the positions are as follows: > > > >Bindery/Shipping Associate >Press/Thermo Form Operator >Braillo Operator >Scanner Operator >Copyholder: Part >Time/Flexible Hours >Vocational Support Specialist > >Technology Specialist > > > >If anyone needs more information, I will post the job descriptions later. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Lisa Hall, Cincinnati, Ohio > >Braille Proofreader From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 13:12:19 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:12:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com><470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC><7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: Carley and Kirt, I suggest that we use the verbs see and watch. that is my point. Why not use the typical vocabulary. I think saying "hear you later" or "I listen to tv" sounds kind of odd. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Carley, Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments here. On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any > of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just > not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal > than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring > himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that. > Car Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>Joshua, >>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a >>different way with other senses or something like. >>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing >> sight. >> >>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>societyatsocial gatherings >> >>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," >>I get, "How do you watch it?" >>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >>It gets old! >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>________________________________________ >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>societyatsocial gatherings >> >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>>Hello, >>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>cultures. >>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>conversation. It is >>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>or more >>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>almost always. >>> >>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>cultures. A >>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>big eyes >>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>front facing >>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>balloon and >>>the string is on your finger... >>> >>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>it means >>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>glee club, >>>getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>world without >>>some sighted help. >>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>blind >>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>parents will >>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>with >>>questions like this they are invaluable... >>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>your heart, as >>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>terrified of >>>something? >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Arielle Silverman >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted societyat >>>social gatherings >>> >>>Hi all, >>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>called >>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>names >>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>there is >>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>both. >>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>nonjudgmental >>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>and >>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>place >>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>Also, >>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>majority >>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>teachers >>>and authority figures to a minimum. >>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>"blind-dating" perhaps. >>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>be >>>happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> 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>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 14:04:59 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:04:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><7.0.1.0.2.20120912083121.04b21138@comcast.net><9C5EA131E8F840018C04382532B45D67@Gloria><5050DA93.3070207@tysdomain.com> <-4634505551628386378@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <162E02F9D0CE486483C78BD27C0E8A34@Gloria> Hi, I was wondering if anyone could tell me where I would find the keyboard that was talked about that would just slide under the eye phone? Is this keyboard the same length as the eyephone on its side? Also when looking for a case, are you able to get the colored ones or because of the keyboard are there only a couple that would fit the phone and keyboard together? Does anyone have the new eye phone and if so how are you liking it? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > The keyboard itself will work, but it's built as an iPhone case so it > won't snap under the touch or the iPad. There are many bluetooth > keyboards that are the same size but are not built into an iPhone > case. Maybe something like that would be better for you. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 12, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Lavonya Gardner > wrote: > >> Does that keyboard work with the iPad and the iPod touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 12, 2012, at 14:55, "Littlefield, Tyler" >> wrote: >> >>> Gloria: >>> If you want a keyboard, I bought the boxwave buddy bluetooth keyboard. >>> I've seen people lugging around desktop-sized bluetooth keyboards, and >>> that'd be irritating. This keyboard snaps to the bottom of your IPhone >>> and it slides out, which is really nice. It makes the phone a bit >>> thicker, and you have to charge the keyboard along with the phone, but >>> it's not to bad. >>> On 9/12/2012 11:46 AM, Gloria G wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Thank you for this information. I have been researching a phone from >>>> TMoble. It is a LG My Touch Q. I was told it has speech capibabilities, >>>> but I wanted to make sure. I was wanting to find a phone that has both >>>> a touch screan and a keybord. I want to slowly transition over to the >>>> touch screen while still having the option to use the keyboard. I will >>>> continue my search. Thanks >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:46 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Gloria c., >>>>> >>>>> If you can WAIT, it might be in your best benefit to SEE which SMART >>>>> Phone Platform has the easiest operating system for you. I believe >>>>> Windows Phone 8 will ADD out of the Box ACCESSIBILITY in the form of a >>>>> Screen Reader (most likely Narrator). It has been widely rumored that >>>>> Android has vastly IMPROVED its own out of the Box Screen Reader for >>>>> Android Phones. OtherWise, you can join the masses of "The BLIND", who >>>>> have adopted Apple's iPhone with its own out of the Box Screen Reader >>>>> VoiceOver. >>>>> >>>>> However, if you want a Basic Phone without a DATA Plan, there are >>>>> usually a couple of LG Phones, which offer some out of the Box >>>>> ACCESSIBLE FEATURES, but NOT as much as provided on the Apple iPhone >>>>> at this time. The only Basic Phone, which offers the most out of the >>>>> Box accessible features is the Samsung Haven, which has been >>>>> discontinued and was only offered on Verizon Wireless's Network. >>>>> >>>>> I SUGGEST you inquire to your Mobile Phone Carrier to determine, which >>>>> Phones are offered to people with visual impairment. >>>>> >>>>> At 07:03 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote: >>>>>> I've never heard of it. >>>>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>>>> of Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If >>>>>> so, is it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, >>>>>> but I have had situations in which the carrier will say something is >>>>>> accessible or has speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. >>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>> Gloria >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robin-melvin%40comcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he >>> that dares not reason is a slave. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From laurel.stockard at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 14:40:03 2012 From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 09:40:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard Message-ID: Hi all, So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is laurel.stockard at gmail.com. Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or anything. Laurel From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Sep 21 15:33:20 2012 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:33:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would maintain that if you are sitting there with a movie on the computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are going to come across more out of touch with the world than saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a movie I am listening to it while I would never be watching music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie just because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things as whether we can travel independently, for example, rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be a finger food, or not paying attention to what is going on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for you. However, I have come to realize that for some, using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds of some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and deserved something more than my anger, I do not physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind person, so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just isn't all that simple sometimes. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >would I know about that! >On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no >> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told him >> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me >> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve >> >> >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >> >>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>> cultures. >>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>> conversation. It is >>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>> or more >>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>> almost always. >>>> >>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>> cultures. A >>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>> big eyes >>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>> front facing >>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>> balloon and >>>> the string is on your finger... >>>> >>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>> it means >>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>> glee club, >>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>> >>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>> world without >>>> some sighted help. >>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>> blind >>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>> parents will >>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>> with >>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>> your heart, as >>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>> terrified of >>>> something? >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyat >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>> called >>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>> names >>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>> there is >>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>> both. >>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>> nonjudgmental >>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>> and >>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>> place >>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>> Also, >>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>> majority >>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>> teachers >>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>> be >>>> happy to help out with it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>> Names: >>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>> >>>> Just some names... >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>> only thing >>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>> really >>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>> a cool >>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>> go >>>> that route. >>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>> contension on >>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>> organization's >>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>> situations >>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>> choose, >>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>> I >>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>> social >>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>> would help >>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>> will >>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>> doing >>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>> problem, >>>> it's just something to consider. >>>> >>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>> student and >>>> NFB's >>>> >>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>> things. So >>>> I >>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>> whatnot to >>>> be >>>> >>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>> jump at the >>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>> acceptable blind or >>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>> that >>>> someone >>>> >>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>> Because this is >>>> such a big issue. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>> offending >>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>> or >>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>> matter >>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>> they fit >>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>> whether >>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>> to >>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>> anyone >>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>> treated >>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>> and >>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>> just as >>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>> as our >>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>> someone >>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>> >>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>> of >>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>> of >>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>> woman >>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>> Jason >>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>> for >>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marc Workman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>> >>>> Chris wrote, >>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>> which >>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>> are >>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>> >>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>> >>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>> are >>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>> can >>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>> message >>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>> formation >>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>> and >>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>> >>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>> has >>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>> mostly >>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>> effort >>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>> right >>>> way to act. >>>> >>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>> judge >>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>> someone >>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>> should >>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>> people >>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>> >>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>> message. >>>> >>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>> out >>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>> of >>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>> sex. There is >>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>> with >>>> some >>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>> :) >>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>> sighted >>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>> the >>>> blind >>>> community. >>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>> or >>>> not) have >>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>> against the grain >>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>> suggested that >>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>> world thinks. >>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>> looks at a >>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>> weird. >>>> or a >>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>> him and when >>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>> really weird and >>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>> both sexual >>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>> of attention >>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>> aren't meant >>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>> would greatly >>>> improve convention. >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>> Whozit >>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>> probably >>>> some >>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>> that >>>> NABS >>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>> activity >>>> among >>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>> position, >>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>> extension, an >>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>> or >>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>> and >>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>> diversity >>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>> available >>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>> fact, >>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>> workshop >>>> about >>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>> have >>>> never >>>> seen >>>> >>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>> having to >>>> be >>>> >>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>> condoms in >>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>> browsing... >>>> Condoms, >>>> >>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>> probably need >>>> to >>>> >>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>> on >>>> a condom >>>> or >>>> >>>> use a dental dam. >>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>> The >>>> packing >>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>> I >>>> for one >>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>> that sell >>>> hot >>>> >>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>> to >>>> buy a box >>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>> (Then of >>>> course >>>> >>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>> didn't >>>> bring >>>> their >>>> >>>> own utensil's). >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> >>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>> convention... >>>> >>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>> even >>>> braille >>>> them >>>> >>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>> sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>> >>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>> presume? >>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>> are kind of in a >>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>> for this list, since >>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>> unique to blindness. >>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>> too far afield, I >>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>> also think that >>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>> legitimate one and >>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>> including teenagers, >>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>> condoms, birth control or >>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>> awkwardness or >>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>> you have to depend >>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>> transportation which can make >>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>> including >>>> www.condomania.com >>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>> and >>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>> choices at >>>> www.amazon.com >>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>> about condoms. >>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>> having sex with a >>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>> decision. However, I feel >>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>> sex for the first >>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>> options are for preventing >>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>> advantages and >>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>> to use condoms and >>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>> websites with this kind >>>> of information: >>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>> or >>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>> the moment because my >>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>> pregnancy at a very >>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>> guy she had only >>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>> birth control pills, >>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>> don't believe that >>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>> takes some responsibility, >>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>> while minimizing the >>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>> there are other ways >>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>> less risky, which >>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>> of you might also be >>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>> parents drive you to >>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>> sit in or even >>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>> college in my home >>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>> doctors' appointments >>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>> doctor while he/she >>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>> parents and I saw many of >>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>> good opportunity to >>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>> health while she was >>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>> doctor recommended >>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>> realized that while it >>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>> privacy as an adult >>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>> room while I was seeing >>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>> until I was 21 and in >>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>> By the time you are 18, >>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>> you have a right to >>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>> important to establish a >>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>> person interfering. >>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>> health and by the time >>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>> discussing your sexual >>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>> your parents being >>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>> driver or even >>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>> this problem. >>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>> school, you should know >>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>> regular basis and any >>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>> ever have to go to the >>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>> be requested of you. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>> %40samobile.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>> mcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>> 40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>> s%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 15:48:08 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:48:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <2A93B3A64A81461FA7F9B68011DF24F6@OwnerPC> References: <505a2ff1.145b650a.76e3.5dd0@mx.google.com> <2A93B3A64A81461FA7F9B68011DF24F6@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I did, now I am on the dance team, and I am a little calmer there, I still have melt downs, but this new church knows how to re direct me. Sent from my iPad On Sep 20, 2012, at 23:58, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Lavanya, > that sounds harsh. Could you find another church? > > -----Original Message----- From: Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:16 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > I was told that I wasn't fowling gods word because I couldn't talk. And my sensory input is way, causing me to scream if things r too bright, loud, or if touched. Or handle any change. They thought I was dumb. They also thought that I was cursing them out, when I would make sounds or sign, and that my blindness was my punishment for not letting them touch me. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 19, 2012, at 16:49, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> How can they throw you out of a church just because you're autistic? Sounds like discrimination to me! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:16:55 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church >> >> I have been thrown out of 25 churches, due to my autism. They seem to be fine with me being blind, but autism was not. So now I attend 2 churches. 1 of them has sometimes 15 blind people at a time. At the other church, I am the only blind person? I am on the dance team. I still do not fit in, but I do try to do ad much ad I can, and try and be ne'er people with my interests. Have you tried finding people to talk to that have your interests? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:49, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> >> Hi nabs students readers >> >> I hope you all are doing well. >> >> >> Anyway >> I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. >> >> I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. >> >> They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. >> every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's >> friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left >> sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together >> and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out >> to lunch and things like that. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 15:59:17 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:59:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard References: Message-ID: <2DC8B34E8D604C539D08283CF8CA2800@Gloria> Hello, I am interested in buying a eye phone. How much would you be willing to sale it for? Gloria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:40 AM Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard > Hi all, > So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. > I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of > you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that > comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not > wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if > you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old > iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is > laurel.stockard at gmail.com. > Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or > anything. > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 16:02:02 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:02:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching Message-ID: Hi all, Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not you can actually see something. It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the idea. Arielle On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would maintain > that if you are sitting there with a movie on the > computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are > going to come across more out of touch with the world than > saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a movie > I am listening to it while I would never be watching > music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have > indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I > watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie just > because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing > can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things > as whether we can travel independently, for example, > rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment > expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think > that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. > This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior > such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be a > finger food, or not paying attention to what is going > on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had > frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what > I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for > you. However, I have come to realize that for some, > using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that > let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I > now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds of > some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to > explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and > deserved something more than my anger, I do not > physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind person, > so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the > word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that > was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just > isn't all that simple sometimes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>would I know about that! > >>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with >>> no >>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told >>> him >>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as >>> me >>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> >>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >>> >>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>> cultures. >>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>> conversation. It is >>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>> or more >>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>> almost always. >>>>> >>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>> cultures. A >>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>> big eyes >>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>> front facing >>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>> balloon and >>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>> >>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>> it means >>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>> glee club, >>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>> world without >>>>> some sighted help. >>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>> blind >>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>> parents will >>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>> with >>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>> your heart, as >>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>> terrified of >>>>> something? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>> called >>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>> names >>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>> there is >>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>> both. >>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>> and >>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>> place >>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>> Also, >>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>> majority >>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>> teachers >>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>> be >>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Names: >>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>> >>>>> Just some names... >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted >>>>> societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>> only thing >>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>> really >>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>> a cool >>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>> go >>>>> that route. >>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>> contension on >>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>> organization's >>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>> situations >>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>> choose, >>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>> I >>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>> social >>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>> would help >>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>> will >>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>> doing >>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>> problem, >>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>> student and >>>>> NFB's >>>>> >>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>> things. So >>>>> I >>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>> whatnot to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>> jump at the >>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>> that >>>>> someone >>>>> >>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>> Because this is >>>>> such a big issue. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted >>>>> societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>> offending >>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>> or >>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>> matter >>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>> they fit >>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>> whether >>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>> to >>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>> anyone >>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>> treated >>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>> and >>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>> just as >>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>> as our >>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>> someone >>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>> of >>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>> of >>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>> woman >>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>> Jason >>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>> for >>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>> which >>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>> are >>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>> >>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>> interested. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>> are >>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>> can >>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>> message >>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>> formation >>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>> and >>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>> has >>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>> mostly >>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>> effort >>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>> right >>>>> way to act. >>>>> >>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>> judge >>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>> someone >>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>> should >>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>> people >>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>> >>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>> message. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>> out >>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>> of >>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>> >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>> sex. There is >>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>> with >>>>> some >>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>> :) >>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>> sighted >>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>> the >>>>> blind >>>>> community. >>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>> or >>>>> not) have >>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>> against the grain >>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>> suggested that >>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>> world thinks. >>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>> looks at a >>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>> weird. >>>>> or a >>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>> him and when >>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>> really weird and >>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>> both sexual >>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>> of attention >>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>> aren't meant >>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>> would greatly >>>>> improve convention. >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>> Whozit >>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>> probably >>>>> some >>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>> that >>>>> NABS >>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>> activity >>>>> among >>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>> position, >>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>> extension, an >>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>> or >>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>> and >>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>> diversity >>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>> available >>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>> fact, >>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>> workshop >>>>> about >>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>> have >>>>> never >>>>> seen >>>>> >>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>> having to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>> condoms in >>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>> browsing... >>>>> Condoms, >>>>> >>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>> probably need >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>> on >>>>> a condom >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>> The >>>>> packing >>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>> I >>>>> for one >>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>> that sell >>>>> hot >>>>> >>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>> to >>>>> buy a box >>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>> (Then of >>>>> course >>>>> >>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>> didn't >>>>> bring >>>>> their >>>>> >>>>> own utensil's). >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>> convention... >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>> even >>>>> braille >>>>> them >>>>> >>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>> sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>> like a breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>> >>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>> presume? >>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>> Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>> are kind of in a >>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>> for this list, since >>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>> too far afield, I >>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>> also think that >>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>> legitimate one and >>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>> including teenagers, >>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>> awkwardness or >>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>> you have to depend >>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>> transportation which can make >>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>> including >>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>> and >>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>> choices at >>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>> about condoms. >>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>> having sex with a >>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>> sex for the first >>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>> options are for preventing >>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>> advantages and >>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>> to use condoms and >>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>> websites with this kind >>>>> of information: >>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>> or >>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>> the moment because my >>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>> guy she had only >>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>> birth control pills, >>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>> don't believe that >>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>> while minimizing the >>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>> there are other ways >>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>> less risky, which >>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>> of you might also be >>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>> parents drive you to >>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>> sit in or even >>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>> college in my home >>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>> good opportunity to >>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>> health while she was >>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>> doctor recommended >>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>> realized that while it >>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>> you have a right to >>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>> important to establish a >>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>> person interfering. >>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>> health and by the time >>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>> your parents being >>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>> driver or even >>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>> this problem. >>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>> school, you should know >>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>> regular basis and any >>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>> be requested of you. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>>> mcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>>> s%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at 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>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 16:28:56 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:28:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for >> improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and >> ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every >> letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither >> does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano >> hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their >> palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together >> until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while >> the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are >> braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice >> makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep >> practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 17:08:30 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:08:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Honestly...I don't really give a damn what word we all use. If you want to say "hey...I listen to TV," it's no skin off my back. If you want to say "hear you later," it doesn't really hurt me, even though it might make you look odd in certain situations. (but sometimes looking odd can be good, I guess...to lots of people it looks very odd when I cross a street, and I definitely like not conforming to that particular social norm about blind people, so who am I to judge?) It's kind of like how Thomas jefferson said it Neither picked his pocket nor broke his leg" if his neighbors believed in one god or twenty gods. Say whatever words you want, it doesn't really affect my ability to do the same. Best, Kirt On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would maintain > that if you are sitting there with a movie on the > computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are > going to come across more out of touch with the world than > saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a movie > I am listening to it while I would never be watching > music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have > indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I > watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie just > because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing > can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things > as whether we can travel independently, for example, > rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment > expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think > that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. > This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior > such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be a > finger food, or not paying attention to what is going > on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had > frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what > I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for > you. However, I have come to realize that for some, > using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that > let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I > now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds of > some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to > explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and > deserved something more than my anger, I do not > physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind person, > so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the > word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that > was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just > isn't all that simple sometimes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>would I know about that! > >>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with >>> no >>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told >>> him >>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as >>> me >>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> >>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >>> >>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>> cultures. >>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>> conversation. It is >>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>> or more >>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>> almost always. >>>>> >>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>> cultures. A >>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>> big eyes >>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>> front facing >>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>> balloon and >>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>> >>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>> it means >>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>> glee club, >>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>> world without >>>>> some sighted help. >>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>> blind >>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>> parents will >>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>> with >>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>> your heart, as >>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>> terrified of >>>>> something? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>> called >>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>> names >>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>> there is >>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>> both. >>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>> and >>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>> place >>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>> Also, >>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>> majority >>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>> teachers >>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>> be >>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Names: >>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>> >>>>> Just some names... >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted >>>>> societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>> only thing >>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>> really >>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>> a cool >>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>> go >>>>> that route. >>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>> contension on >>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>> organization's >>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>> situations >>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>> choose, >>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>> I >>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>> social >>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>> would help >>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>> will >>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>> doing >>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>> problem, >>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>> student and >>>>> NFB's >>>>> >>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>> things. So >>>>> I >>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>> whatnot to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>> jump at the >>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>> that >>>>> someone >>>>> >>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>> Because this is >>>>> such a big issue. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted >>>>> societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>> offending >>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>> or >>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>> matter >>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>> they fit >>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>> whether >>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>> to >>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>> anyone >>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>> treated >>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>> and >>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>> just as >>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>> as our >>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>> someone >>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>> of >>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>> of >>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>> woman >>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>> Jason >>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>> for >>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>> which >>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>> are >>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>> >>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>> interested. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>> are >>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>> can >>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>> message >>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>> formation >>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>> and >>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>> has >>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>> mostly >>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>> effort >>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>> right >>>>> way to act. >>>>> >>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>> judge >>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>> someone >>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>> should >>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>> people >>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>> >>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>> message. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>> out >>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>> of >>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>> >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>> sex. There is >>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>> with >>>>> some >>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>> :) >>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>> sighted >>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>> the >>>>> blind >>>>> community. >>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>> or >>>>> not) have >>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>> against the grain >>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>> suggested that >>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>> world thinks. >>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>> looks at a >>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>> weird. >>>>> or a >>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>> him and when >>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>> really weird and >>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>> both sexual >>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>> of attention >>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>> aren't meant >>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>> would greatly >>>>> improve convention. >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>> Whozit >>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>> probably >>>>> some >>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>> that >>>>> NABS >>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>> activity >>>>> among >>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>> position, >>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>> extension, an >>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>> or >>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>> and >>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>> diversity >>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>> available >>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>> fact, >>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>> workshop >>>>> about >>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>> have >>>>> never >>>>> seen >>>>> >>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>> having to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>> condoms in >>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>> browsing... >>>>> Condoms, >>>>> >>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>> probably need >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>> on >>>>> a condom >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>> The >>>>> packing >>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>> I >>>>> for one >>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>> that sell >>>>> hot >>>>> >>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>> to >>>>> buy a box >>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>> (Then of >>>>> course >>>>> >>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>> didn't >>>>> bring >>>>> their >>>>> >>>>> own utensil's). >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>> convention... >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>> even >>>>> braille >>>>> them >>>>> >>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>> sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>> like a breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>> >>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>> presume? >>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>> Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>> are kind of in a >>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>> for this list, since >>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>> too far afield, I >>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>> also think that >>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>> legitimate one and >>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>> including teenagers, >>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>> awkwardness or >>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>> you have to depend >>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>> transportation which can make >>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>> including >>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>> and >>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>> choices at >>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>> about condoms. >>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>> having sex with a >>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>> sex for the first >>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>> options are for preventing >>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>> advantages and >>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>> to use condoms and >>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>> websites with this kind >>>>> of information: >>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>> or >>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>> the moment because my >>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>> guy she had only >>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>> birth control pills, >>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>> don't believe that >>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>> while minimizing the >>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>> there are other ways >>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>> less risky, which >>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>> of you might also be >>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>> parents drive you to >>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>> sit in or even >>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>> college in my home >>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>> good opportunity to >>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>> health while she was >>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>> doctor recommended >>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>> realized that while it >>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>> you have a right to >>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>> important to establish a >>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>> person interfering. >>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>> health and by the time >>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>> your parents being >>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>> driver or even >>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>> this problem. >>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>> school, you should know >>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>> regular basis and any >>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>> be requested of you. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>>> mcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>>> s%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at 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>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 17:12:00 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:12:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Norms- How can we fit into a sighted societyat Social Gatherings? Message-ID: <505c9ff1.145b650a.76e3.3b6a@mx.google.com> Hi everyone hope you're well. I would also support a list that provided help with the social aspects of blindness. It is not easy fitting into a sighted world. I try my best to consider where I am so I know what is socially exceptable. From jlastar at comcast.net Fri Sep 21 17:45:24 2012 From: jlastar at comcast.net (Jennifer Applegate) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:45:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01cd9820$e5a56690$b0f033b0$@net> I am planning on studying abroad this summer in England. I wonder if any blind student/s has studied abroad and what challenges/successes there were. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Speeding Up Reading? (Arielle Silverman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:28:56 -0600 From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give >> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do >> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read >> close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. >> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >> om >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 ************************************** From sjhhirst at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 18:15:45 2012 From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie H. DeLuca) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:15:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: <001e01cd9820$e5a56690$b0f033b0$@net> References: <001e01cd9820$e5a56690$b0f033b0$@net> Message-ID: Hi Jennifer, I was a Fulbright Scholar in Germany for about 11 months from 2007-2008. I'm legally blind, but not totally blind, but it was interesting and challenging nonetheless. If you would like to talk further, email me at sjhhirst at gmail.com In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854 On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Jennifer Applegate wrote: > > I am planning on studying abroad this summer in England. I wonder if any > blind student/s has studied abroad and what challenges/successes there > were. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:00 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Speeding Up Reading? (Arielle Silverman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:28:56 -0600 > From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? > Message-ID: > 363v39MJgstcS+we5kM7YbjJfeQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring > fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really > help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are > getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will > integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the > gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. > Arielle > > On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > > speeding up thing but a few times. > > > > Cindy > > > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: > >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp > >> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. > >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. > >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. > >> The > >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give > >> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do > >> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read > >> close to 300 words per minute. > >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say > >> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. > >> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. > >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands > >> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The > >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, > >> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught > >> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes > >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing > >> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. > >> > >> Terri Wilcox > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c > >> om > >> > > > > > > -- > > Cynthia Bennett > > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > > > clb5590 at gmail.com > > 828.989.5383 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > > com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 71, Issue 38 > ************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 18:53:31 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:53:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard References: Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know the number to Apple? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:40 AM Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard > Hi all, > So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. > I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of > you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that > comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not > wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if > you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old > iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is > laurel.stockard at gmail.com. > Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or > anything. > Laurel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 19:06:34 2012 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:06:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99271A55-6B1D-4247-A49B-0765907928D9@gmail.com> 1800 my apple 1800-692-7753 Sent from Anjelina's iPhone On Sep 21, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know the number to Apple? Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:40 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard > > >> Hi all, >> So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. >> I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of >> you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that >> comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not >> wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if >> you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old >> iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is >> laurel.stockard at gmail.com. >> Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or anything. >> Laurel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 19:45:41 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 14:45:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard References: <99271A55-6B1D-4247-A49B-0765907928D9@gmail.com> Message-ID: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard > 1800 my apple > 1800-692-7753 > > Sent from Anjelina's iPhone > > On Sep 21, 2012, at 2:53 PM, "Gloria G" wrote: > >> Hi, >> Does anyone know the number to Apple? Thanks >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:40 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. >>> I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of >>> you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that >>> comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not >>> wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if >>> you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old >>> iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is >>> laurel.stockard at gmail.com. >>> Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or >>> anything. >>> Laurel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Sep 21 20:04:13 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 16:04:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E605CB22D73405D99ECD7354C6C73A6@OwnerPC> selling stuff seems fine. You could put an announcement in the Braille monitor or your state nfb newsletter; in fact, that might be a good place to start. -----Original Message----- From: Laurel Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:40 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] my old iPhone 4 and bluetooth keyboard Hi all, So with all this talk of accessible phones and all, I have a question. I am planning on buying an iPhone 5, but I have an iPhone 4. Do any of you know anybody who would be interested in buying an iPhone 4 that comes with a ccase and bluetooth keyboard? I wanna sell mine. I do not wish to clutter up the list, or bother anybody with this thread, so if you know of any suggestions as to where I can go to sell my old iPhone, please respond privately to me and not publically. My email is laurel.stockard at gmail.com. Thanks, and I apologize if this message bothered anybody on list or anything. Laurel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 20:25:46 2012 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:25:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbwatlk] 2012 NFBW Scholarship Winners In-Reply-To: <797413923.1502512.1348253301780.JavaMail.root@md12.quartz.synacor.com> References: <2074232574.1501678.1348251179350.JavaMail.root@md12.quartz.synacor.com> <797413923.1502512.1348253301780.JavaMail.root@md12.quartz.synacor.com> Message-ID: <007601cd9837$491923e0$db4b6ba0$@gmail.com> Please see below! So cool! -----Original Message----- Subject: [nfbwatlk] 2012 NFBW Scholarship Winners The scholarship committee met last night and chose this year's scholarship winners. They are: Natalya (Tasha) Budnik of Everett, Wa. and Humberto Avila of Yakima, Wa. Tasha is a Freshman at Everett Community College. Her plan is to take her basic classes there, then transfer to the University of Washington and obtain a Masters Degree in Physical Therapy. Humberto is a Sophomore at Yakima Valley Community College, and has a goal of becoming an Assistive Technology Teacher of blind children. Both of these young people are fine students, and are very appreciative of our assistance. I think that everyone will enjoy getting to know them at convention. This year, the committee chose the 2 winners, but did not decide on the amount each would receive ($2,000 or $3,000). That decision will be made before the banquet on Saturday evening. Both Tasha and Humberto are eager to be a part of the Federation. They are both engaging and smart. I want to express my sincere gratitude to the members of the scholarship committee; Kaye Kipp, Bennett Prows,Maria Bradford and Mike Mello. Everyone worked hard to make this happen. We had excellent applicants, and the committee considered each one carefully. I have spoken to all of the students this morning. I look forward to seeing many of you in Everett in October. I think it will be an exciting convention! Marci Carpenter Chairperson Scholarship Committee NFB of Washington _______________________________________________ nfbwatlk mailing list nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbwatlk: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 21:22:51 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 14:22:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School Message-ID: Hi all, I formally am accepted into UA SIRSL, school of info resources library science, as I received the email this am. I start in Winter 2013. -- Deb From gloria.graves at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 21:29:39 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 16:29:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School References: Message-ID: <38E4A16201C242E3A5E657FB218E9014@Gloria> congradualations on your exceptance ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deb Mendelsohn" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:22 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School > Hi all, > > I formally am accepted into UA SIRSL, school of info resources library > science, as I received the email this am. I start in Winter 2013. > > > -- > Deb > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:04:18 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:04:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School In-Reply-To: <38E4A16201C242E3A5E657FB218E9014@Gloria> References: <38E4A16201C242E3A5E657FB218E9014@Gloria> Message-ID: HI GLORIA THANK YOU! DEB On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Gloria G wrote: > congradualations on your exceptance > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deb Mendelsohn" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:22 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Grad School > > >> Hi all, >> >> I formally am accepted into UA SIRSL, school of info resources library >> science, as I received the email this am. I start in Winter 2013. >> >> >> -- >> Deb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/deb.mendelsohn%40gmail.com -- From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:42:19 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:42:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I couldn't agree more. I watch TV with my ears, I read books with my ears or my fingers, I see elevator buttons with my fingers. I always tell people "I can see to, just not with my eyes. I see with my fingers and my ears." They tend to understand if I tell them jthat. ~Jewel On 9/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than > worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should > use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even > if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation > partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move > on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not > you can actually see something. > It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as > well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". > Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you > on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm > sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said > hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start > saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, > that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see > you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the > idea. > Arielle > On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would >> maintain >> that if you are sitting there with a movie on the >> computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are >> going to come across more out of touch with the world than >> saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a >> movie >> I am listening to it while I would never be watching >> music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have >> indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I >> watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie >> just >> because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing >> can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such >> things >> as whether we can travel independently, for example, >> rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment >> expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think >> that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. >> This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior >> such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be >> a >> finger food, or not paying attention to what is going >> on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had >> frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what >> I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does >> for >> you. However, I have come to realize that for some, >> using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have >> that >> let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I >> now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds >> of >> some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to >> explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and >> deserved something more than my anger, I do not >> physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind >> person, >> so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the >> word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that >> was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just >> isn't all that simple sometimes. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >>>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>>would I know about that! >> >>>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo >>>> with >>>> no >>>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I >>>> told >>>> him >>>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it >>>> as >>>> me >>>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> >>>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >>>> >>>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>>> cultures. >>>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>>> conversation. It is >>>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>>> or more >>>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>>> almost always. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>>> cultures. A >>>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>>> big eyes >>>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>>> front facing >>>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>>> balloon and >>>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>>> >>>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>>> it means >>>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>>> glee club, >>>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>>> world without >>>>>> some sighted help. >>>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>>> blind >>>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>>> parents will >>>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>>> with >>>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>>> your heart, as >>>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>>> terrified of >>>>>> something? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>>> called >>>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>>> names >>>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>>> there is >>>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>>> both. >>>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>>> and >>>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>>> place >>>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>>> Also, >>>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>>> majority >>>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>>> teachers >>>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>>> be >>>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Names: >>>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some names... >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>>> only thing >>>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>>> really >>>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>>> a cool >>>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>>> go >>>>>> that route. >>>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>>> contension on >>>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>>> organization's >>>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>>> situations >>>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>>> choose, >>>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>>> I >>>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>>> social >>>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>>> would help >>>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>>> will >>>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>>> doing >>>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>>> problem, >>>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>>> student and >>>>>> NFB's >>>>>> >>>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>>> things. So >>>>>> I >>>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>>> whatnot to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>>> jump at the >>>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>>> that >>>>>> someone >>>>>> >>>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>>> Because this is >>>>>> such a big issue. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>>> offending >>>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>>> or >>>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>>> matter >>>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>>> they fit >>>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>>> whether >>>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>>> to >>>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>>> anyone >>>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>>> treated >>>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>>> just as >>>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>>> as our >>>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>>> someone >>>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>>> of >>>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>>> of >>>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>>> woman >>>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>>> for >>>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>>> which >>>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>>> are >>>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>>> interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>>> are >>>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>>> can >>>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>>> message >>>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>>> formation >>>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>>> and >>>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>>> >>>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>>> has >>>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>>> mostly >>>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>>> effort >>>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>>> right >>>>>> way to act. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>>> judge >>>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>>> someone >>>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>>> should >>>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>>> message. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>>> out >>>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>>> of >>>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>>> sex. There is >>>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>>> with >>>>>> some >>>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>>> :) >>>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>>> the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> community. >>>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>>> or >>>>>> not) have >>>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>>> against the grain >>>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>>> suggested that >>>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>>> world thinks. >>>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>>> looks at a >>>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>>> weird. >>>>>> or a >>>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>>> him and when >>>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>>> really weird and >>>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>>> both sexual >>>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>>> of attention >>>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>>> aren't meant >>>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>>> would greatly >>>>>> improve convention. >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>>> Whozit >>>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>>> probably >>>>>> some >>>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>>> that >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>>> activity >>>>>> among >>>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>>> position, >>>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>>> extension, an >>>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>>> or >>>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>>> and >>>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>>> diversity >>>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>>> available >>>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>>> fact, >>>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>>> workshop >>>>>> about >>>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>>> have >>>>>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> >>>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>>> having to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>>> condoms in >>>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>>> browsing... >>>>>> Condoms, >>>>>> >>>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>>> probably need >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>>> on >>>>>> a condom >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>>> The >>>>>> packing >>>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>>> I >>>>>> for one >>>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>>> that sell >>>>>> hot >>>>>> >>>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>>> to >>>>>> buy a box >>>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>>> (Then of >>>>>> course >>>>>> >>>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> bring >>>>>> their >>>>>> >>>>>> own utensil's). >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>>> convention... >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>>> even >>>>>> braille >>>>>> them >>>>>> >>>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>>> >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>>> sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>>> like a breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>>> >>>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>>> presume? >>>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>>> Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>>> are kind of in a >>>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>>> for this list, since >>>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>>> too far afield, I >>>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>>> also think that >>>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>>> legitimate one and >>>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>>> including teenagers, >>>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>>> awkwardness or >>>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>>> you have to depend >>>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>>> transportation which can make >>>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>>> including >>>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>>> and >>>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>>> choices at >>>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>>> about condoms. >>>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>>> having sex with a >>>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>>> sex for the first >>>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>>> options are for preventing >>>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>>> advantages and >>>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>>> to use condoms and >>>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>>> websites with this kind >>>>>> of information: >>>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>>> or >>>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>>> the moment because my >>>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>>> guy she had only >>>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>>> birth control pills, >>>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>>> don't believe that >>>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>>> while minimizing the >>>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>>> there are other ways >>>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>>> less risky, which >>>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>>> of you might also be >>>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>>> parents drive you to >>>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>>> sit in or even >>>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>>> college in my home >>>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>>> good opportunity to >>>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>>> health while she was >>>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>>> doctor recommended >>>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>>> realized that while it >>>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>>> you have a right to >>>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>>> important to establish a >>>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>>> person interfering. >>>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>>> health and by the time >>>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>>> your parents being >>>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>>> driver or even >>>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>>> this problem. >>>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>>> school, you should know >>>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>>> regular basis and any >>>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>>> be requested of you. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>>>> s%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:48:41 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:48:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class Message-ID: I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! ~Jewel From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 22:52:22 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:52:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: What if your right hand is more sensitive? I'm left-handed, and my right hand is more sensitive when I'm reading Braille. I read with all fingers of my right hand, but haven't gotten the two-handed split down yet, and the teacher who tried to show it to me didn't get that my right hand is the more sensitive one. I'd love to read faster, as I'm at 50-80 wpm right now. ~Jewel On 9/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring > fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will > really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find > you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your > brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are > able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or > every letter. > Arielle > > On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set >> about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the >> speeding up thing but a few times. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >>> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for >>> improving Braille Reading Speeds. >>> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >>> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >>> The >>> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and >>> ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read >>> every >>> letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither >>> does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. >>> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano >>> hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their >>> palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >>> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >>> together >>> until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >>> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >>> while >>> the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are >>> braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice >>> makes >>> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep >>> practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Fri Sep 21 23:29:43 2012 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (Adriana Pulido) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:29:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <5057C980.2080902@tysdomain.com> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria> <4C680421182449649E252DB8DC00EAE9@Gloria> <5057C980.2080902@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Tyler 2012/9/17, Littlefield, Tyler : > ATNT supports IPhone now, if you want to go that way. A lot of the LG > phones that had partial speech were discontinued though. Before my > IPhone, I had an ENV3 and was fine with it until it broke; after that > point I grabbed an IPhone. A used ENV3 was $180, IPhone was $200. I'm > glad I went with the extra $20. > On 9/17/2012 7:03 PM, Adriana Pulido wrote: >> Hello Brandon, >> I live in Gainesville, Fl, and AT&T is my carrier. However, I kept on >> using my all phone because sellers here don't know anything about >> accessible phones. Could you please give me any references? >> >> Thank you. >> >> Adriana Pulido >> >> 2012/9/12, Brandon Keith Biggs : >>> Hello, >>> Just get the Haven and join us poor folks! :). >>> Or be a rebel and get an Android. >>> AT&T has a few more accessible phones, but Haven, IPhone and Android are >>> basically all the accessible phones out there. The LG phones are not >>> very >>> good for anything but finding contacts and calling them. I don't know >>> about >>> >>> the new ones, but I had an LG before the Haven came out and it was not >>> very >>> >>> good. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Gloria G >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:11 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> Thanks, but I do not want to have an I-phone. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>> >>> >>>> I've never heard of it. >>>> Just get the IFone, with the Braille overlay, and you'll be fine. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf >>>> of >>>> Gloria G [gloria.graves at gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:58 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, >>>> is >>>> >>>> it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have >>>> had >>>> >>>> situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >>>> speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help >>>> you can give. >>>> Gloria >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com >>> >> > > > -- > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that > dares not reason is a slave. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Estudiante de Maestría en University of Florida. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:09:57 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:09:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand on the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, I move my left hand down to the next line. Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of line 2? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for >> improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and >> ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every >> letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither >> does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano >> hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their >> palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together >> until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while >> the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are >> braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice >> makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep >> practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:12:36 2012 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:12:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> References: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <02f301cd985f$5b2c5700$11850500$@com> The same thing happens around here; I say See you later, or things to that effect and some people just stay quiet. As I see it, we see not with our eyes but with other senses. -----Mensaje original----- De: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] En nombre de Ashley Bramlett Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 09:56 p.m. Para: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Asunto: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Desiree, I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see. If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter case. I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a movie" or "I watched a tv show". Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what would I know about that! On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with > no > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told > him > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as > me > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>> tv, dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>> cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>> or more >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>> almost always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>> big eyes >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>> balloon and >>> the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>> it means >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>> glee club, >>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>> world without >>> some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>> parents will >>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>> with >>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>> your heart, as >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>> terrified of >>> something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat >>> social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>> called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>> names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>> there is >>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>> both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>> nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>> and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>> teachers >>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>> be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>> only thing >>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really >>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>> a cool >>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>> go >>> that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>> contension on >>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's >>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>> situations >>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>> choose, >>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>> social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>> would help >>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will >>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>> doing >>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, >>> it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>> student and >>> NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So >>> I >>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>> whatnot to >>> be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>> jump at the >>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>> acceptable blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that >>> someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending >>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>> or >>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>> matter >>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>> they fit >>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>> whether >>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>> to >>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>> anyone >>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>> treated >>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>> and >>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>> just as >>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>> as our >>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>> someone >>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>> of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>> of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>> woman >>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>> Jason >>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>> for >>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>> which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>> are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>> are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>> can >>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>> message >>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>> formation >>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>> and >>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>> has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>> mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>> effort >>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>> right >>> way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>> judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>> someone >>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>> should >>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>> people >>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>> message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>> out >>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>> of >>> a future NABS membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>> with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>> the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>> or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>> against the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>> weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>> him and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>> of attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>> would greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>> probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>> that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>> activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>> extension, an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>> and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>> workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>> have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>> on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>> I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>> to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>> didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>> even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>> sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>> mcast.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>> 40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:21:29 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:21:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120920050126.01c81088@comcast.net> References: <78190E841AC1489683608788EE22FEF4@Gloria><4C6F3D9D3D2D4BE28C97835A06873CF7@OwnerPC><776A94F604F94976A62172E152792885@userPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920050126.01c81088@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10F4B4687BBB4D1BB5566BC15524AFED@BrandonsLaptop2> Hello, You can change the volume quite easy, but they don't talk. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:03 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones Good morning, Brandon, and List, You can too, change the volume. Aren't there those buttons on the side as well as the volume controls within the phone? What do ya mean?At 07:03 AM 9/19/2012, you wrote: >What do you mean that part of the Haven is not accessable? I am able to >change the settings of that if I want. >Rania, > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf >Of Brandon Keith Biggs >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:43 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hello, >99% of the haven is accessible. So far, only the volume is not accessible. >Thanks, > >Brandon Keith Biggs >-----Original Message----- >From: Ashley Bramlett >Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Gloria, >I haven't read all this thread, but it seems like most are recommending the >I Phone and you do not want one. >If you just need a phone, I understand that. The fancy I phone is so much >more than a phone and you won't want to pay for internet service and all it >has when you won't use it. > >I cannot answer that question. I use a verizon phone, and it hardly talks, >so much of it is inaccessible. It will only talk when you get an incoming >call by announcing the number and you can set it to announce the numbers as >you dial; I think that is all is voiced. > >The accessible phone verizon has is the haven. Not sure if its still being >made. >You might want to just go to the store and ask the sales staff about >accessibility. Ask them to show it to you; don't take their word that it >talks to you. If they show you, then you know what it does. >Also consider what you want in a phone. Do you just want to make calls on >it? Do you feel you want or need to text with it? >If you just want a phone, you really don't need a smart phone. > >I think companies really should do more to make accessible phones. Last >time >I looked for a phone, and verizon is my provider, I hardly found >accessible >phones. The only one I saw accessible was the haven, and it was sold >online. >So I could not see how accessible it was; but I heard even it was not all >accessible, but the major functions of it would be. >And if you're like me, you do not want a touch screen phone. >Good luck finding a phone meeting your needs. >Ashley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gloria G >Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:58 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: [nabs-l] accessible phones > >Hi all, >I am checking out phones. Has anyone heard of the LG My Touch Q? If so, is >it accessible? I talked to the carrier which is Teen Mobil, but I have had >situations in which the carrier will say something is accessible or has >speech capabilities and they do not and vice versa. Thanks for any help you >can give. >Gloria >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink. >net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai >l.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co >m > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:23:12 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:23:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: <042b01cd9860$d5f52e70$81df8b50$@gmail.com> Hi Jewel, Same with me! I'm at 170 WPM, but I still primarily read with my right hand, and haven't totally gotten the two-handed reading thing down. My left hand can go down to the next line where my right hand will meet it near the beginning, but if I try to read to the middle of the line with my left hand, some of the letters will appear up-side-down to me and it really slows down my reading speed. It's a lot better than it was, especially since I've started to learn Braille music. This is because the exercises in my book require me to play the piano with my right hand while I read with my left. I'm still really slow with that, though. Part of the reason I'm still so slow with my left hand is probably that a lot of the reading I do for school is on a Braille display, and I can't really read with two hands on a Braille display, or at least using the two-handed reading technique the way it was meant to be done. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? What if your right hand is more sensitive? I'm left-handed, and my right hand is more sensitive when I'm reading Braille. I read with all fingers of my right hand, but haven't gotten the two-handed split down yet, and the teacher who tried to show it to me didn't get that my right hand is the more sensitive one. I'd love to read faster, as I'm at 50-80 wpm right now. ~Jewel On 9/21/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring > fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will > really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find > you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your > brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are > able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or > every letter. > Arielle > > On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set >> about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the >> speeding up thing but a few times. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >>> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >>> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >>> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >>> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >>> The >>> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers >>> give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. >>> I do not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. >>> We read close to 300 words per minute. >>> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >>> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their >>> palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >>> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >>> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >>> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >>> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >>> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >>> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >>> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail. >>> com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail >> .com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:27:28 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:27:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <042c01cd9861$6ecdc080$4c694180$@gmail.com> Hi Jewel, Maybe you can ask your professor the question you just asked us: what questions *can* you ask your lab assistant? You could also talk to your disability service office. Perhaps they could produce a higher-quality tactile image. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! ~Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:29:55 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <000001cd9861$c64bf9d0$52e3ed70$@gmail.com> Hi Brandon, That is the two-handed split I was talking about. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hello, Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand on the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, I move my left hand down to the next line. Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of line 2? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give >> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do >> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read >> close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. >> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >> om >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:35:40 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:35:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: <02f301cd985f$5b2c5700$11850500$@com> References: <34AF57C406B24A5097DACD1F3FAF1EE9@OwnerPC> <02f301cd985f$5b2c5700$11850500$@com> Message-ID: <000001cd9862$93ce7310$bb6b5930$@gmail.com> Exactly! Some sighted people are very uncomfortable with using the terms "see," "watch," and "look" when talking to me. I tell them those words are part of the English language and are, like other words, not always used for their literal meanings. Blind people use those terms all the time! No, I don't think we should be offended by people using those terms, nor should we be apprehensive about using them. "See you later" or "watching a movie" are part of everyday conversation, and I think we should accept that and go with the flow! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:13 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings The same thing happens around here; I say See you later, or things to that effect and some people just stay quiet. As I see it, we see not with our eyes but with other senses. -----Mensaje original----- De: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] En nombre de Ashley Bramlett Enviado el: jueves, 20 de septiembre de 2012 09:56 p.m. Para: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Asunto: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Desiree, I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see. If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter case. I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a movie" or "I watched a tv show". Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Desiree Oudinot Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what would I know about that! On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo > with no TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I > told him what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that for me to > say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me sort > of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my >>> first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, >>> dogs and horses >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>> societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>> Hello, >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out cultures. >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>> conversation. It is only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly >>> when playing guitar or more heavily when one is studying the old >>> testament as a Jew. >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso almost >>> always. >>> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>> cultures. A smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised >>> eyebrows, big eyes with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>> front facing up with the index finger moving up and down like the >>> person is a balloon and the string is on your finger... >>> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because it >>> means one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance >>> teem, glee club, getting in a relationship, dating... >>> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted world >>> without some sighted help. >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>> blind people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs >>> or parents will help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few >>> sighted people and with questions like this they are invaluable... >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over your >>> heart, as if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you >>> are terrified of something? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>> societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv called >>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both names >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that there >>> is only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people both. >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a nonjudgmental >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations and >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>> place where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain >>> way. >>> Also, >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>> majority of the subscribers should be blind people and we should >>> keep teachers and authority figures to a minimum. >>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd be >>> happy to help out with it. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Names: >>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or >>> LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) >>> >>> Just some names... >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only >>> thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>> really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would >>> be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided >>> not to go that route. >>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension >>> on the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>> organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and >>> dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of >>> whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate >>> stereotypes about either one. >>> I >>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social >>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would >>> help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>> will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend >>> on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it >>> would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>> problem, it's just something to consider. >>> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's student >>> and NFB's >>> >>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>> things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, >>> friends and whatnot to be >>> >>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would jump >>> at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>> Just make a group, possibly: >>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable >>> blind or >>> >>> a >>> >>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>> that someone >>> >>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>> Because this is >>> such a big issue. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>> societyat >>> >>> social gatherings >>> >>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>> offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from >>> the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, >>> no matter their political or social status or whatever, to discuss >>> how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you that blind >>> people, whether they be men or women, should try to do their best >>> to interact as sighted people do? Are there really specific >>> guidelines we have to follow? I really want to understand this. I >>> know as well as anyone what struggles we have to go through growing >>> up just to be treated like human beings. First, we're blind >>> people, then we're young, and the stereotypes surrounding young >>> people of our generation are just as crippling as those surrounding >>> being blind. So being dealt both as our hand in life is kind of a >>> double whammy. I still struggle when someone actually treats me as >>> an equal. I want to run away. >>> >>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out of >>> me because it just does for some reason. >>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a man >>> and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand that >>> all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we are, >>> still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman cannot >>> accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason can't >>> work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me to do it. >>> Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or different "womanly" >>> professions where they get paid less than ordinary men. Jason, due >>> to his disability, does not work. I, due to mental illness, may >>> never work. I want to work so bad, but where? Goodwill is out of >>> the question. I'm not working for nothing or low wages because I'm >>> a woman. And no way will I accept sexual harassment because I have >>> breasts and different organs inside me. I as a blind woman will >>> not accept rules saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a >>> stay-at-home wife. You will be poor." No way. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marc Workman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>> societyat social gatherings >>> >>> Chris wrote, >>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>> >>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>> >>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I put >>> that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>> interested. >>> >>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can look >>> and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they are human >>> beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of respect as >>> sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can follow your >>> rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message should be, >>> "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel pleasure and >>> pain, reach our full potential through the formation of deep and >>> meaningful relationships with other human beings, and your failure >>> to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, discriminatory, >>> and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>> >>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men ought >>> to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, or >>> chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as arbitrary >>> as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort similarly >>> should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more explicitly >>> and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right way to act. >>> >>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the unwritten >>> rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone who wants >>> to spend all of his or her time reading medical journals and >>> desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being blind in the >>> particular society in which we live, and conforming can make things >>> a little bit easier. But I still think we should work more on >>> changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people how to look >>> and act like sighted people. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Marc >>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Brandon and all, >>> >>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this thread, >>> as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has brought up >>> in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we changed the >>> subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's message. >>> >>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you should >>> talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC (the >>> parents division) has touched on this topic in their seminars at >>> conventions. One of the topics at the parents seminar at the >>> Maryland state convention is almost always social skills, >>> especially what sighted society has deemed socially acceptable and >>> how we as blind people can fit in at social gatherings, conforming >>> as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it is >>> important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what does >>> that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, different, >>> abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the very >>> adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out from >>> the vocabulary of the public when in the context of blindness and >>> blind people. In other words, these are the very things we don't >>> want sighted people thinking about us. If this is how sighted >>> people perceive us, then it puts our ability to get a job, >>> volunteer in our community, and become first-class citizens at >>> risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for the NFB to do, >>> and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not doing already. Also, >>> since this is an important topic for blind students, perhaps >>> "social skills and norms" could be the topic of a future NABS >>> membership call. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hello, >>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>> sex. There is >>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>> some >>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>> :) >>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>> sighted >>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>> blind >>> community. >>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>> not) have >>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally against >>> the grain >>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>> suggested that >>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>> world thinks. >>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>> looks at a >>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>> or a >>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to him >>> and when >>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>> really weird and >>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>> both sexual >>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need of >>> attention >>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>> aren't meant >>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems would >>> greatly >>> improve convention. >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>> Whozit >>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>> some >>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>> NABS >>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>> among >>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>> position, >>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by extension, >>> an >>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>> or >>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>> diversity >>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>> available >>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>> fact, >>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>> about >>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>> never >>> seen >>> >>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>> having to >>> be >>> >>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>> condoms in >>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>> browsing... >>> Condoms, >>> >>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>> probably need >>> to >>> >>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>> a condom >>> or >>> >>> use a dental dam. >>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>> The >>> packing >>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>> for one >>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>> that sell >>> hot >>> >>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>> buy a box >>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>> (Then of >>> course >>> >>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>> bring >>> their >>> >>> own utensil's). >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> >>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>> convention... >>> >>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>> braille >>> them >>> >>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like >>> a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >> wrote: >>> >>> From: Carly Mihalakis >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing >>> list" >>> >>> >> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>> Hi, Brandon, >>> >>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>> presume? >>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>> Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>> are kind of in a >>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>> for this list, since >>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>> unique to blindness. >>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>> too far afield, I >>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>> also think that >>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>> legitimate one and >>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>> including teenagers, >>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>> condoms, birth control or >>> sexual health information without a lot of >>> awkwardness or >>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>> you have to depend >>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>> transportation which can make >>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>> including >>> www.condomania.com >>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>> and >>> www.condomdepot.com >>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>> choices at >>> www.amazon.com >>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>> reason, it shouldn't >>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>> about condoms. >>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>> having sex with a >>> partner because that is a highly individual >>> decision. However, I feel >>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>> sex for the first >>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>> options are for preventing >>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>> advantages and >>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>> to use condoms and >>> birth control. There are a couple different >>> websites with this kind >>> of information: >>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>> or >>> www.scarleteen.com >>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>> the moment because my >>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>> pregnancy at a very >>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>> guy she had only >>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>> birth control pills, >>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>> don't believe that >>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>> takes some responsibility, >>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>> while minimizing the >>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>> there are other ways >>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>> less risky, which >>> these online forums will talk about. >>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>> of you might also be >>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>> parents drive you to >>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>> sit in or even >>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>> college in my home >>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>> doctors' appointments >>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>> doctor while he/she >>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>> parents and I saw many of >>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>> good opportunity to >>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>> health while she was >>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>> doctor recommended >>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>> realized that while it >>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>> privacy as an adult >>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>> room while I was seeing >>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>> until I was 21 and in >>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>> By the time you are 18, >>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>> you have a right to >>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>> important to establish a >>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>> person interfering. >>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>> health and by the time >>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>> discussing your sexual >>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>> your parents being >>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>> driver or even >>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>> this problem. >>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>> school, you should know >>> the names of all medications you take on a >>> regular basis and any >>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>> ever have to go to the >>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>> be requested of you. >>> Best, >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>> iggs%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>> %40samobile.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To 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your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40v >>isi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From trising at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 22 01:54:15 2012 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:54:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: <5772A5123F484BA49BE8C09537037B04@userPC> I am also left handed, and my left is more sensitive. Just try to read with both, and you will speed up. From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 01:54:22 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:54:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, You don't ask your teacher if your lab assistant can tell you the color, you tell your teacher that your lab assistant will read you the color. If it is too much to override your teacher, have your accessibility department label the cell with color and whatnot. If the cell is complex, ask your teacher to give you just the basics of the cell. Often times pictures have all kinds of dots and swirls. These aren't really needed. But what I know is plant cells are more rectangle and animal cells are more roundish. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! ~Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From herrinar at muohio.edu Sat Sep 22 02:11:34 2012 From: herrinar at muohio.edu (Herrin, Amber) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 22:11:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions about the ipad and the braillenote apex In-Reply-To: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9@mx.google.com> References: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Vejas: Though I am late to your questions, I'm not seeing where anyone else responded to them, so I will do my best to do so. First-I don't know if there is an actual keystroke, but if you focus on the page number which is an adjustable box, like a combo box or as VoiceOver says a picker, you can press dot six chord or dot three cord, depending on which direction you would like to move. Perhaps I'm incorrect, and if there is a better way, I'd love to hear of it for my own references sake, but I don't believe so. Second-Capitalization will depend on what grade you choose to write in. If in grade 2, you can, of course, press dot six before typing the first part of a sentence, whether that is a letter or a character. If, however, you are writing in grade 1 or computer braille, capitalizing is not as straightforward. On my Focus 40, I have a shift key, and press it while simultaneously pressing the dots which make up the first letter I am meaning to use which needs capitalizing. However, there does not appear, to my knowledge, to be a shift key, as it were, on the Apex's layout. Enter in combination with a letter would likely perform some obscure command which I have absolutely no knowledge of, and backspace, or dot seven, would probably either do nothing or delete something instead. On this, I'm sorry to say, I'm unable to help you. I am happy to try to look into it for you if it is that you are needing to write strictly in grade one. Yours, Amber H On 9/18/12, vejas wrote: > Hi All, > I'm starting to learn how to use my ipad with the braille note > apex as a keyboard. But there are 2 questions that I have. > First, how do you go forward a page when you are reading on > ibooks? A manual said it was space with o, but that actually > takes me to the braille note options menu. > Second, how do you capitalize in the beginning of a sentance? The > ipad only seems to capitalize words in the middle. Let's take > this sentence as an example: > They went to South Africa last month. > The ipad will automatically capitalize South Africa, but not > they. > Please if you could answer any of these questions, I'd greatly > aprreciate it. > Vejas > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herrinar%40muohio.edu > -- Sincerely, Amber R. Herrin e: herrinar at muohio.edu P: (513) 593-5855 From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 03:57:59 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:57:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <000001cd9861$c64bf9d0$52e3ed70$@gmail.com> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> <000001cd9861$c64bf9d0$52e3ed70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, That split is the one I do, or the one I thought you were doing? The one I do is with my left hand in place while my right hand finishes the line then it smoothly goes to the left hand after my right ends the line. The faster one is where you have two hands moving at once. I don't know about reading ahead at the same time as reading what comes before, so I was wondering if that was really possible. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:29 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hi Brandon, That is the two-handed split I was talking about. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hello, Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand on the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, I move my left hand down to the next line. Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of line 2? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give >> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do >> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read >> close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. >> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >> om >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 04:44:06 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 22:44:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewel, Is your teacher the one saying what your lab assistant isn't "allowed" to tell you? Or is your lab assistant making up these rules? If your teacher is preventing your lab assistant from giving you the full information that sighted people could get by looking at the cell, that is discriminatory behavior. I would suggest not only telling your prof this, but also alerting your disability services office (if you have one) and the department chair or even a dean about the situation. The department chair or dean should have the authority to override what your professor is doing. If your prof won't budge, in addition to filing complaints, I might suggest dropping the course and taking an incomplete (rather than failing) and retaking it with a different professor who does not make discriminatory rules. The fact is that tactile diagrams won't tell you about colors and other visual dimensions that you can only get from talking with your lab assistant or other sighted reader. Also, if you were a microbiologist in the field or lab needing to identify cells, you would hire readers and you would ask them to tell you as much as they possibly can. I would agree with not letting your lab assistant tell you what the cell is called, but short of that, you need to be able to get as much information as possible to piece together in your head to make an accurate identification. If it's the lab assistant refusing to give you info, find a new lab assistant. Best, and please keep us posted, Arielle On 9/21/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > You don't ask your teacher if your lab assistant can tell you the color, you > > tell your teacher that your lab assistant will read you the color. > If it is too much to override your teacher, have your accessibility > department label the cell with color and whatnot. If the cell is complex, > ask your teacher to give you just the basics of the cell. Often times > pictures have all kinds of dots and swirls. These aren't really needed. But > > what I know is plant cells are more rectangle and animal cells are more > roundish. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 3:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class > > I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, > and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is > identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is > not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I > ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the > cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the > image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and > I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She > says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image > and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What > colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of > questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify > cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can > someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to > tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I > don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 07:37:25 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 00:37:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120922003231.01dcfb40@comcast.net> Hi, ~Jewel, The way my Mom always tried to help folks understand was by asking the person to pretend she is on the phone and giving a description of the cell or blob, to someone else in such a way that the listener is supposed to know exactly with what they are dealing. This means color if in fact, the blob's color is relevant. See how applicable that idea is to your situation. Good luck, I can't imagine being so frustrated! for today, Car/21/2012, Jewel wrote: >I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, >and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is >identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is >not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I >ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the >cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the >image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and >I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She >says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image >and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What >colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of >questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify >cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can >someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to >tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I >don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! >~Jewel > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 14:16:24 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:16:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120922071508.01bf04f8@comcast.net> Who needs to be technical??? Is not life far too temporary for such minutia?At 09:02 AM 9/21/2012, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, >Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than >worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should >use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even >if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation >partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move >on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not >you can actually see something. >It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as >well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". >Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you >on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm >sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said >hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start >saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, >that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see >you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the >idea. >Arielle >On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > > Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I > would maintain > > that if you are sitting there with a movie on the > > computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are > > going to come across more out of touch with the world than > > saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I > enjoy a movie > > I am listening to it while I would never be watching > > music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have > > indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I > > watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie just > > because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing > > can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things > > as whether we can travel independently, for example, > > rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment > > expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think > > that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. > > This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior > > such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not > meant to be a > > finger food, or not paying attention to what is going > > on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had > > frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what > > I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for > > you. However, I have come to realize that for some, > > using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that > > let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I > > now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds of > > some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to > > explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and > > deserved something more than my anger, I do not > > physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind person, > > so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the > > word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that > > was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just > > isn't all that simple sometimes. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Steve Jacobson > > > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > > > >>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the > >>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A > >>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken > >>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're > >>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds > >>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could > >>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, > >>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. > >>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching > >>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really > >>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to > >>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand > >>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't > >>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said > >>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because > >>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what > >>would I know about that! > > > >>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > >>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with > >>> no > >>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > >>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told > >>> him > >>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > >>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as > >>> me > >>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > >>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>> > >>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > >>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > >>>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > >>>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > >>>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > >>>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > >>>>helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>> > >>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >>>>> tv, dogs and horses > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >>>>> cultures. > >>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >>>>> conversation. It is > >>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >>>>> or more > >>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >>>>> almost always. > >>>>> > >>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >>>>> cultures. A > >>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >>>>> big eyes > >>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >>>>> front facing > >>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >>>>> balloon and > >>>>> the string is on your finger... > >>>>> > >>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >>>>> it means > >>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >>>>> glee club, > >>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... > >>>>> > >>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >>>>> world without > >>>>> some sighted help. > >>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >>>>> blind > >>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >>>>> parents will > >>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >>>>> with > >>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... > >>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >>>>> your heart, as > >>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >>>>> terrified of > >>>>> something? > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>> sighted societyat > >>>>> social gatherings > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >>>>> called > >>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >>>>> names > >>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >>>>> there is > >>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >>>>> both. > >>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >>>>> nonjudgmental > >>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >>>>> and > >>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >>>>> place > >>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >>>>> Also, > >>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >>>>> majority > >>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >>>>> teachers > >>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. > >>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >>>>> be > >>>>> happy to help out with it. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> Names: > >>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) > >>>>> > >>>>> Just some names... > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>> sighted > >>>>> societyat > >>>>> > >>>>> social gatherings > >>>>> > >>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >>>>> only thing > >>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >>>>> really > >>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >>>>> a cool > >>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >>>>> go > >>>>> that route. > >>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >>>>> contension on > >>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >>>>> organization's > >>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >>>>> situations > >>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >>>>> choose, > >>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >>>>> I > >>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >>>>> social > >>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >>>>> would help > >>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >>>>> will > >>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >>>>> doing > >>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >>>>> problem, > >>>>> it's just something to consider. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >>>>> student and > >>>>> NFB's > >>>>> > >>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >>>>> things. So > >>>>> I > >>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >>>>> whatnot to > >>>>> be > >>>>> > >>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >>>>> jump at the > >>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >>>>> Just make a group, possibly: > >>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >>>>> acceptable blind or > >>>>> > >>>>> a > >>>>> > >>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >>>>> that > >>>>> someone > >>>>> > >>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >>>>> Because this is > >>>>> such a big issue. > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>> sighted > >>>>> societyat > >>>>> > >>>>> social gatherings > >>>>> > >>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >>>>> offending > >>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >>>>> or > >>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >>>>> matter > >>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >>>>> they fit > >>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >>>>> whether > >>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >>>>> to > >>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >>>>> anyone > >>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >>>>> treated > >>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >>>>> and > >>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >>>>> just as > >>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >>>>> as our > >>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >>>>> someone > >>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >>>>> of > >>>>> me because it just does for some reason. > >>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >>>>> of > >>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >>>>> woman > >>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >>>>> Jason > >>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >>>>> for > >>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >>>>> Beth > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris wrote, > >>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >>>>> which > >>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >>>>> are > >>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. > >>>>> > >>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >>>>> interested. > >>>>> > >>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >>>>> are > >>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >>>>> can > >>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >>>>> message > >>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >>>>> formation > >>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >>>>> and > >>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >>>>> > >>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >>>>> has > >>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >>>>> mostly > >>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >>>>> effort > >>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >>>>> right > >>>>> way to act. > >>>>> > >>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >>>>> judge > >>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >>>>> someone > >>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >>>>> should > >>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >>>>> people > >>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Marc > >>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Brandon and all, > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >>>>> message. > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >>>>> out > >>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >>>>> of > >>>>> a future NABS membership call. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just my thoughts, > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >>>>> sex. There is > >>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >>>>> with > >>>>> some > >>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >>>>> :) > >>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >>>>> sighted > >>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >>>>> the > >>>>> blind > >>>>> community. > >>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >>>>> or > >>>>> not) have > >>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >>>>> against the grain > >>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >>>>> suggested that > >>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >>>>> world thinks. > >>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >>>>> looks at a > >>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >>>>> weird. > >>>>> or a > >>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >>>>> him and when > >>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >>>>> really weird and > >>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >>>>> both sexual > >>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >>>>> of attention > >>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >>>>> aren't meant > >>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >>>>> would greatly > >>>>> improve convention. > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >>>>> Whozit > >>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >>>>> probably > >>>>> some > >>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >>>>> that > >>>>> NABS > >>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >>>>> activity > >>>>> among > >>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >>>>> position, > >>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >>>>> extension, an > >>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >>>>> or > >>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >>>>> and > >>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >>>>> diversity > >>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >>>>> available > >>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >>>>> fact, > >>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >>>>> workshop > >>>>> about > >>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >>>>> have > >>>>> never > >>>>> seen > >>>>> > >>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >>>>> having to > >>>>> be > >>>>> > >>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >>>>> condoms in > >>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >>>>> browsing... > >>>>> Condoms, > >>>>> > >>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >>>>> probably need > >>>>> to > >>>>> > >>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >>>>> on > >>>>> a condom > >>>>> or > >>>>> > >>>>> use a dental dam. > >>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >>>>> The > >>>>> packing > >>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >>>>> I > >>>>> for one > >>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >>>>> that sell > >>>>> hot > >>>>> > >>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >>>>> to > >>>>> buy a box > >>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >>>>> (Then of > >>>>> course > >>>>> > >>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >>>>> didn't > >>>>> bring > >>>>> their > >>>>> > >>>>> own utensil's). > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >>>>> convention... > >>>>> > >>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >>>>> even > >>>>> braille > >>>>> them > >>>>> > >>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >>>>> > >>>>> Anmol > >>>>> > >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >>>>> sad. > >>>>> Perhaps > >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >>>>> like a breeze > >>>>> among flowers. > >>>>> Hellen Keller > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students > >>>>> mailing > >>>>> list" > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >>>>> Hi, Brandon, > >>>>> > >>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >>>>> > >>>>> Respectfully, > >>>>> Jedi > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>>>> >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. > >>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >>>>> presume? > >>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >>>>> Silverman > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >>>>> are kind of in a > >>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >>>>> for this list, since > >>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >>>>> unique to blindness. > >>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >>>>> too far afield, I > >>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >>>>> also think that > >>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >>>>> legitimate one and > >>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, > >>>>> including teenagers, > >>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get > >>>>> condoms, birth control or > >>>>> sexual health information without a lot of > >>>>> awkwardness or > >>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >>>>> you have to depend > >>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for > >>>>> transportation which can make > >>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >>>>> including > >>>>> www.condomania.com > >>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com > >>>>> and > >>>>> www.condomdepot.com > >>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >>>>> choices at > >>>>> www.amazon.com > >>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >>>>> reason, it shouldn't > >>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >>>>> about condoms. > >>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >>>>> having sex with a > >>>>> partner because that is a highly individual > >>>>> decision. However, I feel > >>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having > >>>>> sex for the first > >>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your > >>>>> options are for preventing > >>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >>>>> advantages and > >>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >>>>> to use condoms and > >>>>> birth control. There are a couple different > >>>>> websites with this kind > >>>>> of information: > >>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org > >>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >>>>> or > >>>>> www.scarleteen.com > >>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >>>>> the moment because my > >>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >>>>> pregnancy at a very > >>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >>>>> guy she had only > >>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >>>>> birth control pills, > >>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >>>>> don't believe that > >>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that > >>>>> takes some responsibility, > >>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >>>>> while minimizing the > >>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >>>>> there are other ways > >>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >>>>> less risky, which > >>>>> these online forums will talk about. > >>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual > >>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >>>>> of you might also be > >>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >>>>> parents drive you to > >>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >>>>> sit in or even > >>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >>>>> college in my home > >>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >>>>> doctors' appointments > >>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >>>>> doctor while he/she > >>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my > >>>>> parents and I saw many of > >>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >>>>> good opportunity to > >>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >>>>> health while she was > >>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >>>>> doctor recommended > >>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >>>>> realized that while it > >>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >>>>> privacy as an adult > >>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >>>>> room while I was seeing > >>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >>>>> until I was 21 and in > >>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >>>>> By the time you are 18, > >>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >>>>> you have a right to > >>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is > >>>>> important to establish a > >>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >>>>> person interfering. > >>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >>>>> health and by the time > >>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >>>>> discussing your sexual > >>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without > >>>>> your parents being > >>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >>>>> driver or even > >>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >>>>> this problem. > >>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >>>>> school, you should know > >>>>> the names of all medications you take on a > >>>>> regular basis and any > >>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >>>>> ever have to go to the > >>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may > >>>>> be requested of you. > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Arielle > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >>>>> %40samobile.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> 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_______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobs > on%40visi.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson > %40visi.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 14:24:42 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:24:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: <505a8340.a581440a.5ceb.ffffa27f@mx.google.com> <470600D0A3D04EA495B0FE221DB1F50F@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20120920220039.01e252f0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120922071955.01e407f0@comcast.net> Good mornining, Ashley, and Kurt, and others, As far as I'm concerned, I "see" and I "watch" in terms that are all my own, so I use those terms quite liberally i describing my own experience, not getting all caught up in minutia Car At 06:12 AM 9/21/2012, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Carley and Kirt, >I suggest that we use the verbs see and watch. that is my point. Why >not use the typical vocabulary. I think saying "hear you later" or >"I listen to tv" sounds kind of odd. > >-----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:44 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >societyatsocial gatherings > >Carley, > Remember that one time you wrote something on here and I totally >disagreed with pretty much everything you said? That didn't happen >just now. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with your sentiments >here. > >On 9/20/12, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>Guys, it's not rocket science! A hesitance to just say "see" or any >>of those so-called sighted verbs suggests to me that people are just >>not getting over themselves, that folk are making this a bigger deal >>than it need be. Therefore, it's little wonder ol' Sighty can't bring >>himself to just know we can't see and leave it at that. >>Car Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>Joshua, >>>I see your point. But why can't you respond, I do watch tv in a >>>different way with other senses or something like. >>>IMO, people's reactions are no need to stop using the words referencing >>>sight. >>> >>>-----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester >>>Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:08 AM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>>societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>>I always say listening to the tv, because when I say, "Watching TV," >>>I get, "How do you watch it?" >>>When that happens, people start laughing, like it's some big joke! >>>It gets old! >>>Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>________________________________________ >>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on >>>behalf of Desiree Oudinot [turtlepower17 at gmail.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:00 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>>societyatsocial gatherings >>> >>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>helping by spurring that misconception on. >>> >>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>tv, dogs and horses >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>> >>>>Hello, >>>>There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>cultures. >>>>For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>conversation. It is >>>>only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>or more >>>>heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>almost always. >>>> >>>>Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>cultures. A >>>>smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>big eyes >>>>with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>front facing >>>>up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>balloon and >>>>the string is on your finger... >>>> >>>>Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>it means >>>>one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>glee club, >>>>getting in a relationship, dating... >>>> >>>>I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>world without >>>>some sighted help. >>>>Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>blind >>>>people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>parents will >>>>help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>with >>>>questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>your heart, as >>>>if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>terrified of >>>>something? >>>>Thanks, >>>> >>>>Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Arielle Silverman >>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>sighted societyat >>>>social gatherings >>>> >>>>Hi all, >>>>Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>called >>>>"Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>names >>>>imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>there is >>>>only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>both. >>>>I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>nonjudgmental >>>>forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>and >>>>get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>place >>>>where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>Also, >>>>while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>majority >>>>of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>teachers >>>>and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>"blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>be >>>>happy to help out with it. >>>> >>>> >>>>On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>wrote: >>>> Names: >>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>> >>>> Just some names... >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>only thing >>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>really >>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>a cool >>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>go >>>> that route. >>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>contension on >>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>organization's >>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>situations >>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>choose, >>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>I >>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>social >>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>would help >>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>will >>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>doing >>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>problem, >>>> it's just something to consider. >>>> >>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>student and >>>> NFB's >>>> >>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>things. So >>>> I >>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>whatnot to >>>> be >>>> >>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>jump at the >>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>acceptable blind or >>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>that >>>> someone >>>> >>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>Because this is >>>> such a big issue. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>sighted >>>> societyat >>>> >>>> social gatherings >>>> >>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>offending >>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>or >>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>matter >>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>they fit >>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>whether >>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>to >>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>anyone >>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>treated >>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>and >>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>just as >>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>as our >>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>someone >>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>> >>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>of >>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>of >>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>woman >>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>Jason >>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>for >>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marc Workman >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>> >>>> Chris wrote, >>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>which >>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>are >>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>> >>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>> >>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>are >>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>can >>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>message >>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>formation >>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>and >>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>> >>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>has >>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>mostly >>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>effort >>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>right >>>> way to act. >>>> >>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>judge >>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>someone >>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>should >>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>people >>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>> >>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>> message. >>>> >>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>out >>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>of >>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>> sex. There is >>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>with >>>> some >>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>> :) >>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>> sighted >>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>the >>>> blind >>>> community. >>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>or >>>> not) have >>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>> against the grain >>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>> suggested that >>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>> world thinks. >>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>> looks at a >>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>weird. >>>> or a >>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>> him and when >>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>> really weird and >>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>> both sexual >>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>> of attention >>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>> aren't meant >>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>> would greatly >>>> improve convention. >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>> Whozit >>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>probably >>>> some >>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>that >>>> NABS >>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>activity >>>> among >>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>> position, >>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>> extension, an >>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>> or >>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>and >>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>> diversity >>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>> available >>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>> fact, >>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>workshop >>>> about >>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>have >>>> never >>>> seen >>>> >>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>> having to >>>> be >>>> >>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>> condoms in >>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>> browsing... >>>> Condoms, >>>> >>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>> probably need >>>> to >>>> >>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>on >>>> a condom >>>> or >>>> >>>> use a dental dam. >>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>The >>>> packing >>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>I >>>> for one >>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>> that sell >>>> hot >>>> >>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>to >>>> buy a box >>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>> (Then of >>>> course >>>> >>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>didn't >>>> bring >>>> their >>>> >>>> own utensil's). >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> >>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>> convention... >>>> >>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>even >>>> braille >>>> them >>>> >>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>> like a breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> >>>> >>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>> >>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>> presume? >>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>> Silverman >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>> are kind of in a >>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>> for this list, since >>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>> unique to blindness. >>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>> too far afield, I >>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>> also think that >>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>> legitimate one and >>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>> including teenagers, >>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>> condoms, birth control or >>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>> awkwardness or >>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>> you have to depend >>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>> transportation which can make >>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>> including >>>> www.condomania.com >>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>> and >>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>> choices at >>>> www.amazon.com >>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>> about condoms. >>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>> having sex with a >>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>> decision. However, I feel >>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>> sex for the first >>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>> options are for preventing >>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>> advantages and >>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>> to use condoms and >>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>> websites with this kind >>>> of information: >>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>> or >>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>> the moment because my >>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>> pregnancy at a very >>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>> guy she had only >>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>> birth control pills, >>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>> don't believe that >>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>> takes some responsibility, >>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>> while minimizing the >>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>> there are other ways >>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>> less risky, which >>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>> of you might also be >>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>> parents drive you to >>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>> sit in or even >>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>> college in my home >>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>> doctors' appointments >>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>> doctor while he/she >>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>> parents and I saw many of >>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>> good opportunity to >>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>> health while she was >>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>> doctor recommended >>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>> realized that while it >>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>> privacy as an adult >>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>> room while I was seeing >>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>> until I was 21 and in >>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>> By the time you are 18, >>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>> you have a right to >>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>> important to establish a >>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>> person interfering. >>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>> health and by the time >>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>> discussing your sexual >>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>> your parents being >>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>> driver or even >>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>> this problem. >>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>> school, you should know >>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>> regular basis and any >>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>> ever have to go to the >>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>> be requested of you. >>>> Best, >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>> %40samobile.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>> mcast.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>> 40yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>> s%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>> se%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>iggs%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From mworkman.lists at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 15:30:29 2012 From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:30:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> To add to what Arielle says. Even when her sighted boyfriend says, "I'll see you this afternoon", he doesn't mean he will visually perceive her this afternoon. At least, he doesn't just mean that. If in the evening, Arielle asks him, "where were you this afternoon?" It would be odd for him to say, "what do you mean? I looked at you from across the cafeteria, so I saw you just like I said I would". Only in some very rare cases does "I'll see you later" just mean one person will visually perceive another at some future point in time. It normally means instead that two or more people will interact in person in the future, and blind people are just as capable as sighted people of interacting in person. So to my mind, if someone thinks it strange or incorrect for a blind person to say "I'll see you later", the person doesn't understand what is meant by the word "see" in that sentence. Something similar is true of the word "watch" in the sentence "I'm watching TV". If someone was sitting in front of a screen not paying attention to the audio, not paying attention to the plot, not understanding what's going on, and yet visually perceiving the images on the screen, I think that person could hardly be said to be watching TV. It seems strange to me to say a six-month-old or a cat is watching TV. It would be more appropriate to say the baby or the cat is looking at the TV. Watching TV means paying attention to plot, following the story, understanding what's happening, and all of this can be done without visually perceiving the images on the screen. Someone could argue that visually perceiving is essential for watching—to use philosophic jargon, visually perceiving is necessary but not sufficient for watching). Maybe, but I don't know who gets to decide these things, and since visual perception of the images on screen seems less important than all the other elements of watching, I think it's perfectly fine for a blind person to say she is watching TV. That said, if a blind person prefers the word "listening", I wouldn't get up set with him and suggest he's setting back the cause of blind people everywhere. When sighted people, on the other hand, correct the word usage of blind people when it comes to watching and seeing, this is patronizing and/or ignorant, and a little education can be helpful. Cheers, On 2012-09-21, at 10:02 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than > worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should > use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even > if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation > partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move > on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not > you can actually see something. > It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as > well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". > Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you > on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm > sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said > hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start > saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, > that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see > you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the > idea. > Arielle > On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would maintain >> that if you are sitting there with a movie on the >> computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are >> going to come across more out of touch with the world than >> saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a movie >> I am listening to it while I would never be watching >> music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have >> indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I >> watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie just >> because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing >> can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things >> as whether we can travel independently, for example, >> rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment >> expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think >> that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. >> This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior >> such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be a >> finger food, or not paying attention to what is going >> on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had >> frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what >> I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for >> you. However, I have come to realize that for some, >> using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that >> let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I >> now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds of >> some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to >> explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and >> deserved something more than my anger, I do not >> physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind person, >> so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the >> word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that >> was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just >> isn't all that simple sometimes. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >>> The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>> computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>> movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>> in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>> doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>> weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>> if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>> I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>> As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>> something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>> mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>> say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>> them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>> included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>> in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>> apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>> would I know about that! >> >>> On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with >>>> no >>>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told >>>> him >>>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as >>>> me >>>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> >>>>> Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>> we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>> do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>>> it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>> think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>>> like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>> helping by spurring that misconception on. >>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>>> cultures. >>>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>>> conversation. It is >>>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>>> or more >>>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>>> almost always. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>>> cultures. A >>>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>>> big eyes >>>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>>> front facing >>>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>>> balloon and >>>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>>> >>>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>>> it means >>>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>>> glee club, >>>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>>> world without >>>>>> some sighted help. >>>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>>> blind >>>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>>> parents will >>>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>>> with >>>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>>> your heart, as >>>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>>> terrified of >>>>>> something? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>>> called >>>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>>> names >>>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>>> there is >>>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>>> both. >>>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>>> and >>>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>>> place >>>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>>> Also, >>>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>>> majority >>>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>>> teachers >>>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>>> be >>>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Names: >>>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some names... >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>>> only thing >>>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>>> really >>>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>>> a cool >>>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>>> go >>>>>> that route. >>>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>>> contension on >>>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>>> organization's >>>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>>> situations >>>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>>> choose, >>>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>>> I >>>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>>> social >>>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>>> would help >>>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>>> will >>>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>>> doing >>>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>>> problem, >>>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>>> student and >>>>>> NFB's >>>>>> >>>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>>> things. So >>>>>> I >>>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>>> whatnot to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>>> jump at the >>>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>>> that >>>>>> someone >>>>>> >>>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>>> Because this is >>>>>> such a big issue. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>>> offending >>>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>>> or >>>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>>> matter >>>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>>> they fit >>>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>>> whether >>>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>>> to >>>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>>> anyone >>>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>>> treated >>>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>>> just as >>>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>>> as our >>>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>>> someone >>>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>>> of >>>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>>> of >>>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>>> woman >>>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>>> for >>>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>>> which >>>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>>> are >>>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>>> interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>>> are >>>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>>> can >>>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>>> message >>>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>>> formation >>>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>>> and >>>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>>> >>>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>>> has >>>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>>> mostly >>>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>>> effort >>>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>>> right >>>>>> way to act. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>>> judge >>>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>>> someone >>>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>>> should >>>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>>> message. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>>> out >>>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>>> of >>>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>>> sex. There is >>>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>>> with >>>>>> some >>>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>>> :) >>>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>>> the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> community. >>>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>>> or >>>>>> not) have >>>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>>> against the grain >>>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>>> suggested that >>>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>>> world thinks. >>>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>>> looks at a >>>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>>> weird. >>>>>> or a >>>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>>> him and when >>>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>>> really weird and >>>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>>> both sexual >>>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>>> of attention >>>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>>> aren't meant >>>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>>> would greatly >>>>>> improve convention. >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>>> Whozit >>>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>>> probably >>>>>> some >>>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>>> that >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>>> activity >>>>>> among >>>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>>> position, >>>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>>> extension, an >>>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>>> or >>>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>>> and >>>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>>> diversity >>>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>>> available >>>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>>> fact, >>>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>>> workshop >>>>>> about >>>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>>> have >>>>>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> >>>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>>> having to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>>> condoms in >>>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>>> browsing... >>>>>> Condoms, >>>>>> >>>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>>> probably need >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>>> on >>>>>> a condom >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>>> The >>>>>> packing >>>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>>> I >>>>>> for one >>>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>>> that sell >>>>>> hot >>>>>> >>>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>>> to >>>>>> buy a box >>>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>>> (Then of >>>>>> course >>>>>> >>>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> bring >>>>>> their >>>>>> >>>>>> own utensil's). >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>>> convention... >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>>> even >>>>>> braille >>>>>> them >>>>>> >>>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>>> >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>>> sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>>> like a breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>>> >>>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>>> presume? >>>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>>> Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>>> are kind of in a >>>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>>> for this list, since >>>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>>> too far afield, I >>>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>>> also think that >>>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>>> legitimate one and >>>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>>> including teenagers, >>>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>>> awkwardness or >>>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>>> you have to depend >>>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>>> transportation which can make >>>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>>> including >>>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>>> and >>>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>>> choices at >>>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>>> about condoms. >>>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>>> having sex with a >>>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>>> sex for the first >>>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>>> options are for preventing >>>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>>> advantages and >>>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>>> to use condoms and >>>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>>> websites with this kind >>>>>> of information: >>>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>>> or >>>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>>> the moment because my >>>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>>> guy she had only >>>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>>> birth control pills, >>>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>>> don't believe that >>>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>>> while minimizing the >>>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>>> there are other ways >>>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>>> less risky, which >>>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>>> of you might also be >>>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>>> parents drive you to >>>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>>> sit in or even >>>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>>> college in my home >>>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>>> good opportunity to >>>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>>> health while she was >>>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>>> doctor recommended >>>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>>> realized that while it >>>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>>> you have a right to >>>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>>> important to establish a >>>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>>> person interfering. >>>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>>> health and by the time >>>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>>> your parents being >>>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>>> driver or even >>>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>>> this problem. >>>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>>> school, you should know >>>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>>> regular basis and any >>>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>>> be requested of you. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l 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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 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change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 15:40:48 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:40:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> References: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Exactly. And people, sighted and blind alike, will say they are going to see their parents at Christmastime or they can't wait to see their pet dog or cat, etc. when they really mean "visit" instead of "see". A sighted person wouldn't get nearly as excited about seeing a photo of their parents, pets etc. Arielle On 9/22/12, Marc Workman wrote: > To add to what Arielle says. Even when her sighted boyfriend says, "I'll see > you this afternoon", he doesn't mean he will visually perceive her this > afternoon. At least, he doesn't just mean that. If in the evening, Arielle > asks him, "where were you this afternoon?" It would be odd for him to say, > "what do you mean? I looked at you from across the cafeteria, so I saw you > just like I said I would". Only in some very rare cases does "I'll see you > later" just mean one person will visually perceive another at some future > point in time. It normally means instead that two or more people will > interact in person in the future, and blind people are just as capable as > sighted people of interacting in person. So to my mind, if someone thinks it > strange or incorrect for a blind person to say "I'll see you later", the > person doesn't understand what is meant by the word "see" in that sentence. > > Something similar is true of the word "watch" in the sentence "I'm watching > TV". If someone was sitting in front of a screen not paying attention to the > audio, not paying attention to the plot, not understanding what's going on, > and yet visually perceiving the images on the screen, I think that person > could hardly be said to be watching TV. It seems strange to me to say a > six-month-old or a cat is watching TV. It would be more appropriate to say > the baby or the cat is looking at the TV. Watching TV means paying attention > to plot, following the story, understanding what's happening, and all of > this can be done without visually perceiving the images on the screen. > Someone could argue that visually perceiving is essential for watching—to > use philosophic jargon, visually perceiving is necessary but not sufficient > for watching). Maybe, but I don't know who gets to decide these things, and > since visual perception of the images on screen seems less important than > all the other elements of watching, I think it's perfectly fine for a blind > person to say she is watching TV. That said, if a blind person prefers the > word "listening", I wouldn't get up set with him and suggest he's setting > back the cause of blind people everywhere. When sighted people, on the other > hand, correct the word usage of blind people when it comes to watching and > seeing, this is patronizing and/or ignorant, and a little education can be > helpful. > > Cheers, > > On 2012-09-21, at 10:02 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than >> worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should >> use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even >> if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation >> partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move >> on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not >> you can actually see something. >> It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as >> well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". >> Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you >> on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm >> sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said >> hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start >> saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, >> that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see >> you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the >> idea. >> Arielle >> On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would >>> maintain >>> that if you are sitting there with a movie on the >>> computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are >>> going to come across more out of touch with the world than >>> saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a >>> movie >>> I am listening to it while I would never be watching >>> music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have >>> indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I >>> watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie >>> just >>> because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing >>> can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such >>> things >>> as whether we can travel independently, for example, >>> rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the >>> sentiment >>> expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think >>> that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted >>> people. >>> This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior >>> such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to >>> be a >>> finger food, or not paying attention to what is going >>> on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had >>> frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what >>> I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does >>> for >>> you. However, I have come to realize that for some, >>> using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have >>> that >>> let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I >>> now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds >>> of >>> some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to >>> explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and >>> deserved something more than my anger, I do not >>> physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind >>> person, >>> so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the >>> word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances >>> that >>> was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just >>> isn't all that simple sometimes. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> >>>> The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>>> computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>>> movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>>> in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>>> doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>>> weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>>> if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>>> I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>>> As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>>> something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>>> mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>>> say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>>> them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>>> included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>>> in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>>> apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>>> would I know about that! >>> >>>> On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo >>>>> with >>>>> no >>>>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>>>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I >>>>> told >>>>> him >>>>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>>>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it >>>>> as >>>>> me >>>>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>>>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>>> we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>>> do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I >>>>>> hate >>>>>> it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>>> think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows >>>>>> we >>>>>> like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>>> helping by spurring that misconception on. >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>>>> cultures. >>>>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>>>> conversation. It is >>>>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>>>> or more >>>>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>>>> almost always. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>>>> cultures. A >>>>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>>>> big eyes >>>>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>>>> front facing >>>>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>>>> balloon and >>>>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>>>> it means >>>>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>>>> glee club, >>>>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>>>> world without >>>>>>> some sighted help. >>>>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>>>> parents will >>>>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>>>> your heart, as >>>>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>>>> terrified of >>>>>>> something? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>>> sighted societyat >>>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>>>> called >>>>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>>>> names >>>>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>>>> there is >>>>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>>>> both. >>>>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>>>> place >>>>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>>>> Also, >>>>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>>>> majority >>>>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>>>> teachers >>>>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Names: >>>>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some names... >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> societyat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>>>> only thing >>>>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>>>> a cool >>>>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> that route. >>>>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>>>> contension on >>>>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>>>> organization's >>>>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>>>> situations >>>>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>>>> choose, >>>>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>>>> social >>>>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>>>> would help >>>>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>>>> doing >>>>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>>>> student and >>>>>>> NFB's >>>>>>> >>>>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>>>> things. So >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>>>> whatnot to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>>>> jump at the >>>>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>>>> Because this is >>>>>>> such a big issue. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> societyat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>>>> offending >>>>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>>>> matter >>>>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>>>> they fit >>>>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>>>> whether >>>>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>>>> treated >>>>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>>>> just as >>>>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>>>> as our >>>>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>>>> woman >>>>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>>>> interested. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>>>> message >>>>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>>>> formation >>>>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>>>> mostly >>>>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>>>> effort >>>>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>>>> right >>>>>>> way to act. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>>>> judge >>>>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc >>>>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>>>> message. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>>>> sex. There is >>>>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>>>> :) >>>>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>>>> sighted >>>>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> community. >>>>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> not) have >>>>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>>>> against the grain >>>>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>>>> suggested that >>>>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>>>> world thinks. >>>>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>>>> looks at a >>>>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>>>> weird. >>>>>>> or a >>>>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>>>> him and when >>>>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>>>> really weird and >>>>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>>>> both sexual >>>>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>>>> of attention >>>>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>>>> aren't meant >>>>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>>>> would greatly >>>>>>> improve convention. >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>>>> Whozit >>>>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>>>> probably >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>>>> activity >>>>>>> among >>>>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>>>> position, >>>>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>>>> extension, an >>>>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>>>> diversity >>>>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>>>> fact, >>>>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>>>> workshop >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> seen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>>>> having to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>>>> condoms in >>>>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>>>> browsing... >>>>>>> Condoms, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>>>> probably need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> a condom >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> >>>>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> packing >>>>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> for one >>>>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>>>> that sell >>>>>>> hot >>>>>>> >>>>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> buy a box >>>>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>>>> (Then of >>>>>>> course >>>>>>> >>>>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>> bring >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> >>>>>>> own utensil's). >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>>>> convention... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> braille >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>>>> sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>>>> like a breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> mailing >>>>>>> list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>>>> presume? >>>>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>>>> Silverman >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>>>> are kind of in a >>>>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>>>> for this list, since >>>>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>>>> too far afield, I >>>>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>>>> also think that >>>>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>>>> legitimate one and >>>>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>>>> including teenagers, >>>>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>>>> awkwardness or >>>>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>>>> you have to depend >>>>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>>>> transportation which can make >>>>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>>>> including >>>>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>>>> choices at >>>>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>>>> about condoms. >>>>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>>>> having sex with a >>>>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>>>> sex for the first >>>>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>>>> options are for preventing >>>>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>>>> advantages and >>>>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>>>> to use condoms and >>>>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>>>> websites with this kind >>>>>>> of information: >>>>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>>>> the moment because my >>>>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>>>> guy she had only >>>>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>>>> birth control pills, >>>>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>>>> don't believe that >>>>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>>>> while minimizing the >>>>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>>>> there are other ways >>>>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>>>> less risky, which >>>>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>>>> of you might also be >>>>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>>>> parents drive you to >>>>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>>>> sit in or even >>>>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>>>> college in my home >>>>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>>>> good opportunity to >>>>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>>>> health while she was >>>>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>>>> doctor recommended >>>>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>>>> realized that while it >>>>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>>>> you have a right to >>>>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>>>> important to establish a >>>>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>>>> person interfering. >>>>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>>>> health and by the time >>>>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>>>> your parents being >>>>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>>>> driver or even >>>>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>>>> this problem. >>>>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>>>> school, you should know >>>>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>>>> regular basis and any >>>>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>>>> be requested of you. >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>>>>> mcast.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 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options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carlymih at comcast.net Sat Sep 22 15:47:22 2012 From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:47:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> References: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120922084553.01e5f3a0@comcast.net> Hi, everyone, Can't we just move on! I mean again, we're not talkin' about splitting the atom, here! Car At 08:30 AM 9/22/2012, Marc Workman wrote: >To add to what Arielle says. Even when her >sighted boyfriend says, "I'll see you this >afternoon", he doesn't mean he will visually >perceive her this afternoon. At least, he >doesn't just mean that. If in the evening, >Arielle asks him, "where were you this >afternoon?" It would be odd for him to say, >"what do you mean? I looked at you from across >the cafeteria, so I saw you just like I said I >would". Only in some very rare cases does "I'll >see you later" just mean one person will >visually perceive another at some future point >in time. It normally means instead that two or >more people will interact in person in the >future, and blind people are just as capable as >sighted people of interacting in person. So to >my mind, if someone thinks it strange or >incorrect for a blind person to say "I'll see >you later", the person doesn't understand what >is meant by the word "see" in that sentence. > >Something similar is true of the word "watch" in >the sentence "I'm watching TV". If someone was >sitting in front of a screen not paying >attention to the audio, not paying attention to >the plot, not understanding what's going on, and >yet visually perceiving the images on the >screen, I think that person could hardly be said >to be watching TV. It seems strange to me to say >a six-month-old or a cat is watching TV. It >would be more appropriate to say the baby or the >cat is looking at the TV. Watching TV means >paying attention to plot, following the story, >understanding what's happening, and all of this >can be done without visually perceiving the >images on the screen. Someone could argue that >visually perceiving is essential for watching—to >use philosophic jargon, visually perceiving is >necessary but not sufficient for watching). >Maybe, but I don't know who gets to decide these >things, and since visual perception of the >images on screen seems less important than all >the other elements of watching, I think it's >perfectly fine for a blind person to say she is >watching TV. That said, if a blind person >prefers the word "listening", I wouldn't get up >set with him and suggest he's setting back the >cause of blind people everywhere. When sighted >people, on the other hand, correct the word >usage of blind people when it comes to watching >and seeing, this is patronizing and/or ignorant, >and a little education can be helpful. > >Cheers, > >On 2012-09-21, at 10:02 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than > > worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should > > use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even > > if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation > > partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move > > on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not > > you can actually see something. > > It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as > > well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". > > Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you > > on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm > > sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said > > hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start > > saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, > > that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see > > you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the > > idea. > > Arielle > > On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > >> Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they > can have video. I would maintain > >> that if you are sitting there with a movie on the > >> computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are > >> going to come across more out of touch with the world than > >> saying you are listening to it. Also, the > fact is that when I enjoy a movie > >> I am listening to it while I would never be watching > >> music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have > >> indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I > >> watched a given thing on TV and that I > haven't seen this or that movie just > >> because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing > >> can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such things > >> as whether we can travel independently, for example, > >> rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment > >> expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think > >> that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. > >> This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior > >> such as picking up food with one's fingers > that clearly is not meant to be a > >> finger food, or not paying attention to what is going > >> on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had > >> frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what > >> I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for > >> you. However, I have come to realize that for some, > >> using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have that > >> let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I > >> now understand that my use of that term may > raise questions in the minds of > >> some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to > >> explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and > >> deserved something more than my anger, I do not > >> physically watch TV. He saw me as an > independent and capable blind person, > >> so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the > >> word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that > >> was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just > >> isn't all that simple sometimes. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Steve Jacobson > >> > >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >> > >>> The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the > >>> computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A > >>> movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken > >>> in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're > >>> doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds > >>> weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could > >>> if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, > >>> I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. > >>> As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching > >>> something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really > >>> mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to > >>> say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand > >>> them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't > >>> included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said > >>> in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because > >>> apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what > >>> would I know about that! > >> > >>> On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > >>>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with > >>>> no > >>>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. > >>>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told > >>>> him > >>>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that > >>>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as > >>>> me > >>>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. > >>>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, > >>>> > >>>> Steve > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what > >>>>> we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd > >>>>> do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate > >>>>> it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't > >>>>> think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we > >>>>> like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not > >>>>> helping by spurring that misconception on. > >>>> > >>>>> On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: > >>>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just > >>>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For > >>>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert > >>>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get > >>>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to > >>>>>> tv, dogs and horses > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out > >>>>>> cultures. > >>>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in > >>>>>> conversation. It is > >>>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar > >>>>>> or more > >>>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. > >>>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso > >>>>>> almost always. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all > >>>>>> cultures. A > >>>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, > >>>>>> big eyes > >>>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. > >>>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in > >>>>>> front facing > >>>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a > >>>>>> balloon and > >>>>>> the string is on your finger... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because > >>>>>> it means > >>>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, > >>>>>> glee club, > >>>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted > >>>>>> world without > >>>>>> some sighted help. > >>>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or > >>>>>> parents will > >>>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... > >>>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over > >>>>>> your heart, as > >>>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are > >>>>>> terrified of > >>>>>> something? > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>>> sighted societyat > >>>>>> social gatherings > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv > >>>>>> called > >>>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both > >>>>>> names > >>>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that > >>>>>> there is > >>>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, > >>>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people > >>>>>> both. > >>>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a > >>>>>> nonjudgmental > >>>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a > >>>>>> place > >>>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. > >>>>>> Also, > >>>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast > >>>>>> majority > >>>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep > >>>>>> teachers > >>>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. > >>>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or > >>>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. > >>>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd > >>>>>> be > >>>>>> happy to help out with it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Names: > >>>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) > >>>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) > >>>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) > >>>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Just some names... > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>>> sighted > >>>>>> societyat > >>>>>> > >>>>>> social gatherings > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the > >>>>>> only thing > >>>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't > >>>>>> really > >>>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be > >>>>>> a cool > >>>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to > >>>>>> go > >>>>>> that route. > >>>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student > >>>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of > >>>>>> contension on > >>>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which > >>>>>> organization's > >>>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating > >>>>>> situations > >>>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so > >>>>>> choose, > >>>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to > >>>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their > >>>>>> social > >>>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB > >>>>>> would help > >>>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what > >>>>>> will > >>>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on > >>>>>> doing > >>>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would > >>>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a > >>>>>> problem, > >>>>>> it's just something to consider. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's > >>>>>> student and > >>>>>> NFB's > >>>>>> > >>>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same > >>>>>> things. So > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and > >>>>>> whatnot to > >>>>>> be > >>>>>> > >>>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would > >>>>>> jump at the > >>>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. > >>>>>> Just make a group, possibly: > >>>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially > >>>>>> acceptable blind or > >>>>>> > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> > >>>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? > >>>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> someone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. > >>>>>> Because this is > >>>>>> such a big issue. > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>>> sighted > >>>>>> societyat > >>>>>> > >>>>>> social gatherings > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to > >>>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of > >>>>>> offending > >>>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no > >>>>>> matter > >>>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how > >>>>>> they fit > >>>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, > >>>>>> whether > >>>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as > >>>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as > >>>>>> anyone > >>>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be > >>>>>> treated > >>>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are > >>>>>> just as > >>>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both > >>>>>> as our > >>>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when > >>>>>> someone > >>>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: > >>>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: > >>>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> me because it just does for some reason. > >>>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls > >>>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us > >>>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I > >>>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and > >>>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my > >>>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a > >>>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand > >>>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we > >>>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind > >>>>>> woman > >>>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since > >>>>>> Jason > >>>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me > >>>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or > >>>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than > >>>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, > >>>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, > >>>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I > >>>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different > >>>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules > >>>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home > >>>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. > >>>>>> Beth > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with > >>>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris wrote, > >>>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules > >>>>>> which > >>>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow > >>>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we > >>>>>> are > >>>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, > >>>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one > >>>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such > >>>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, > >>>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, > >>>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I > >>>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is > >>>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is > >>>>>> interested. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people > >>>>>> are > >>>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can > >>>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they > >>>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of > >>>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we > >>>>>> can > >>>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the > >>>>>> message > >>>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel > >>>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the > >>>>>> formation > >>>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, > >>>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting > >>>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's > >>>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this > >>>>>> has > >>>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of > >>>>>> mostly > >>>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men > >>>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. > >>>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the > >>>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, > >>>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as > >>>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the > >>>>>> effort > >>>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more > >>>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called > >>>>>> right > >>>>>> way to act. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform > >>>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed > >>>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't > >>>>>> judge > >>>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the > >>>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge > >>>>>> someone > >>>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical > >>>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being > >>>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming > >>>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we > >>>>>> should > >>>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind > >>>>>> people > >>>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marc > >>>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Brandon and all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this > >>>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has > >>>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we > >>>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's > >>>>>> message. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of > >>>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can > >>>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you > >>>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC > >>>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their > >>>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents > >>>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social > >>>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially > >>>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social > >>>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. > >>>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as > >>>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our > >>>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it > >>>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted > >>>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what > >>>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, > >>>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the > >>>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut > >>>>>> out > >>>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of > >>>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very > >>>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this > >>>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to > >>>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class > >>>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for > >>>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not > >>>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind > >>>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> a future NABS membership call. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Just my thoughts, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe > >>>>>> sex. There is > >>>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> some > >>>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... > >>>>>> :) > >>>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a > >>>>>> sighted > >>>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> community. > >>>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> not) have > >>>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally > >>>>>> against the grain > >>>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has > >>>>>> suggested that > >>>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted > >>>>>> world thinks. > >>>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world > >>>>>> looks at a > >>>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so > >>>>>> weird. > >>>>>> or a > >>>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to > >>>>>> him and when > >>>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something > >>>>>> really weird and > >>>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. > >>>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but > >>>>>> both sexual > >>>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need > >>>>>> of attention > >>>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. > >>>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that > >>>>>> aren't meant > >>>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems > >>>>>> would greatly > >>>>>> improve convention. > >>>>>> Thank you, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled > >>>>>> Whozit > >>>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are > >>>>>> probably > >>>>>> some > >>>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> NABS > >>>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual > >>>>>> activity > >>>>>> among > >>>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that > >>>>>> position, > >>>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by > >>>>>> extension, an > >>>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of > >>>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. > >>>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at > >>>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the > >>>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a > >>>>>> diversity > >>>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop > >>>>>> available > >>>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in > >>>>>> fact, > >>>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general > >>>>>> workshop > >>>>>> about > >>>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. > >>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> never > >>>>>> seen > >>>>>> > >>>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without > >>>>>> having to > >>>>>> be > >>>>>> > >>>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any > >>>>>> condoms in > >>>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was > >>>>>> browsing... > >>>>>> Condoms, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also > >>>>>> probably need > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put > >>>>>> on > >>>>>> a condom > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> > >>>>>> use a dental dam. > >>>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. > >>>>>> The > >>>>>> packing > >>>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> for one > >>>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places > >>>>>> that sell > >>>>>> hot > >>>>>> > >>>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> buy a box > >>>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... > >>>>>> (Then of > >>>>>> course > >>>>>> > >>>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who > >>>>>> didn't > >>>>>> bring > >>>>>> their > >>>>>> > >>>>>> own utensil's). > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB > >>>>>> convention... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can > >>>>>> even > >>>>>> braille > >>>>>> them > >>>>>> > >>>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Anmol > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > >>>>>> sad. > >>>>>> Perhaps > >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > >>>>>> like a breeze > >>>>>> among flowers. > >>>>>> Hellen Keller > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students > >>>>>> mailing > >>>>>> list" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM > >>>>>> Hi, Brandon, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on > >>>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub > >>>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. > >>>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I > >>>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the > >>>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If > >>>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be > >>>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, > >>>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: > >>>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are > >>>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. > >>>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Respectfully, > >>>>>> Jedi > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" > >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I > >>>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. > >>>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually > >>>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That > >>>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. > >>>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel > >>>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've > >>>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or > >>>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. > >>>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be > >>>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I > >>>>>> presume? > >>>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How > >>>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear > >>>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle > >>>>>> Silverman > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM > >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating > >>>>>> are kind of in a > >>>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic > >>>>>> for this list, since > >>>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really > >>>>>> unique to blindness. > >>>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting > >>>>>> too far afield, I > >>>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I > >>>>>> also think that > >>>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a > >>>>>> legitimate one and > >>>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, > >>>>>> including teenagers, > >>>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get > >>>>>> condoms, birth control or > >>>>>> sexual health information without a lot of > >>>>>> awkwardness or > >>>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if > >>>>>> you have to depend > >>>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for > >>>>>> transportation which can make > >>>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. > >>>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, > >>>>>> including > >>>>>> www.condomania.com > >>>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> www.condomdepot.com > >>>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom > >>>>>> choices at > >>>>>> www.amazon.com > >>>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any > >>>>>> reason, it shouldn't > >>>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there > >>>>>> about condoms. > >>>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin > >>>>>> having sex with a > >>>>>> partner because that is a highly individual > >>>>>> decision. However, I feel > >>>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having > >>>>>> sex for the first > >>>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your > >>>>>> options are for preventing > >>>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the > >>>>>> advantages and > >>>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way > >>>>>> to use condoms and > >>>>>> birth control. There are a couple different > >>>>>> websites with this kind > >>>>>> of information: > >>>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org > >>>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> www.scarleteen.com > >>>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at > >>>>>> the moment because my > >>>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended > >>>>>> pregnancy at a very > >>>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a > >>>>>> guy she had only > >>>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking > >>>>>> birth control pills, > >>>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I > >>>>>> don't believe that > >>>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that > >>>>>> takes some responsibility, > >>>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable > >>>>>> while minimizing the > >>>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, > >>>>>> there are other ways > >>>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are > >>>>>> less risky, which > >>>>>> these online forums will talk about. > >>>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is > >>>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual > >>>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some > >>>>>> of you might also be > >>>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your > >>>>>> parents drive you to > >>>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to > >>>>>> sit in or even > >>>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended > >>>>>> college in my home > >>>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my > >>>>>> doctors' appointments > >>>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the > >>>>>> doctor while he/she > >>>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my > >>>>>> parents and I saw many of > >>>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a > >>>>>> good opportunity to > >>>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own > >>>>>> health while she was > >>>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the > >>>>>> doctor recommended > >>>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually > >>>>>> realized that while it > >>>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my > >>>>>> privacy as an adult > >>>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting > >>>>>> room while I was seeing > >>>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand > >>>>>> until I was 21 and in > >>>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. > >>>>>> By the time you are 18, > >>>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, > >>>>>> you have a right to > >>>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is > >>>>>> important to establish a > >>>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third > >>>>>> person interfering. > >>>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual > >>>>>> health and by the time > >>>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start > >>>>>> discussing your sexual > >>>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without > >>>>>> your parents being > >>>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a > >>>>>> driver or even > >>>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid > >>>>>> this problem. > >>>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high > >>>>>> school, you should know > >>>>>> the names of all medications you take on a > >>>>>> regular basis and any > >>>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you > >>>>>> ever have to go to the > >>>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may > >>>>>> be requested of you. > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Arielle > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi > >>>>>> %40samobile.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co > >>>>>> mcast.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% > >>>>>> 40yahoo.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >>>>>> mail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > >>>>>> m%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list > >>>>>> s%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info > >>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo > >>>>>> se%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >>>>>> %40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 > >>>>>> %40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>>> info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g > >>>>>> mail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb > >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 > >>>>>> %40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > >>>> > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for nabs-l: > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sat Sep 22 15:55:28 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 09:55:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2> <4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> <000001cd9861$c64bf9d0$52e3ed70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I read with both hands when using a Braille display. I think I keep both hands together and move both from left to right along the Braille display line, which still enables me to read much faster since I am reading words with both hands at the same time. Once my right hand gets to the end, I press the advance key and keep going. I'm not as fast on a Braille display as I am with hard copy Braille since there's a brief delay with scrolling, but I can read fast enough on a display to give a presentation etc. Arielle On 9/21/12, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote: > Hello, > That split is the one I do, or the one I thought you were doing? > The one I do is with my left hand in place while my right hand finishes the > > line then it smoothly goes to the left hand after my right ends the line. > > The faster one is where you have two hands moving at once. I don't know > about reading ahead at the same time as reading what comes before, so I was > > wondering if that was really possible. > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:29 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? > > Hi Brandon, > > That is the two-handed split I was talking about. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Brandon Keith Biggs > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:10 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? > > Hello, > Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand > on > the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the > start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, > I > move my left hand down to the next line. > Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the > right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of > line 2? > Thanks, > > Brandon Keith Biggs > -----Original Message----- > From: Arielle Silverman > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? > > These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring > fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really > help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are > getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will > integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the > gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. > Arielle > > On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set >> about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the >> speeding up thing but a few times. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >>> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >>> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >>> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >>> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >>> The >>> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give >>> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do >>> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read >>> close to 300 words per minute. >>> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >>> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. >>> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >>> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >>> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >>> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >>> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >>> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >>> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >>> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >>> >>> Terri Wilcox >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 22 16:33:24 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:33:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching In-Reply-To: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> References: <264433CC-2CC3-48D7-9025-53F1938BE74B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7DC426D14C284A1BB777124D68D77232@OwnerPC> Mark, Very well said. Those words such as see and watch denote more than visual perception. Not only is it standard english vocab to state them when you mean perceive or understand, it to me sounds just shorter and clearer. We should use them and sighted people shouldn't be hesitant to use them. If they are, I tell them its okay; I remember a high school teacher asked me if it was okay to say those words. I said sure, that I said "see you later" all the time. Well, on this we agree. it just takes educating people when needed. -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Listening vs. Watching To add to what Arielle says. Even when her sighted boyfriend says, "I'll see you this afternoon", he doesn't mean he will visually perceive her this afternoon. At least, he doesn't just mean that. If in the evening, Arielle asks him, "where were you this afternoon?" It would be odd for him to say, "what do you mean? I looked at you from across the cafeteria, so I saw you just like I said I would". Only in some very rare cases does "I'll see you later" just mean one person will visually perceive another at some future point in time. It normally means instead that two or more people will interact in person in the future, and blind people are just as capable as sighted people of interacting in person. So to my mind, if someone thinks it strange or incorrect for a blind person to say "I'll see you later", the person doesn't understand what is meant by the word "see" in that sentence. Something similar is true of the word "watch" in the sentence "I'm watching TV". If someone was sitting in front of a screen not paying attention to the audio, not paying attention to the plot, not understanding what's going on, and yet visually perceiving the images on the screen, I think that person could hardly be said to be watching TV. It seems strange to me to say a six-month-old or a cat is watching TV. It would be more appropriate to say the baby or the cat is looking at the TV. Watching TV means paying attention to plot, following the story, understanding what's happening, and all of this can be done without visually perceiving the images on the screen. Someone could argue that visually perceiving is essential for watching—to use philosophic jargon, visually perceiving is necessary but not sufficient for watching). Maybe, but I don't know who gets to decide these things, and since visual perception of the images on screen seems less important than all the other elements of watching, I think it's perfectly fine for a blind person to say she is watching TV. That said, if a blind person prefers the word "listening", I wouldn't get up set with him and suggest he's setting back the cause of blind people everywhere. When sighted people, on the other hand, correct the word usage of blind people when it comes to watching and seeing, this is patronizing and/or ignorant, and a little education can be helpful. Cheers, On 2012-09-21, at 10:02 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > Frankly, I think we as blind people have much bigger fish to fry than > worrying about whether to say we watch or listen to stuff. We should > use the terms we feel comfortable with and that sound appropriate even > if they aren't technically correct. Hopefully a sighted conversation > partner will be able to get the meaning of what you're saying and move > on instead of freaking out about the technicalities of whether or not > you can actually see something. > It goes the other way too. I often get emails from sighted people (as > well as blind people) that end with "Hope to hear from you soon". > Literally what they mean is "hope to see a written response from you > on my computer screen soon". Should I correct them and say, "I'm > sending you a response in text, not voice, so you should have said > hope to read from you soon?" I think not. Or maybe I should start > saying "smell you later" to my boyfriend when I leave for work? Again, > that would be highly inappropriate, even though when I say "I'll see > you later" I won't literally be seeing him. OK, I think you get the > idea. > Arielle > On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would >> maintain >> that if you are sitting there with a movie on the >> computer that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are >> going to come across more out of touch with the world than >> saying you are listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a >> movie >> I am listening to it while I would never be watching >> music so those two examples are really not interchangeable as you have >> indicated. Having said that, I do tend to say that I >> watched a given thing on TV and that I haven't seen this or that movie >> just >> because it makes sense, but I think this sort of thing >> can be carried too far. We are going to be judged far more by such >> things >> as whether we can travel independently, for example, >> rather than whether we watch or listen to TV. I agree with the sentiment >> expressed by someone else that we are incorrect to think >> that there is one social norm that is conformed to by all sighted people. >> This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior >> such as picking up food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to >> be a >> finger food, or not paying attention to what is going >> on around us. When my co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had >> frankly never thought about the apparent conflict in what >> I was saying. The verb "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does >> for >> you. However, I have come to realize that for some, >> using that term makes them wonder if there is some device that I have >> that >> let's me get some sense of what is being displayed. I >> now understand that my use of that term may raise questions in the minds >> of >> some, and if it is apparent, I can take the time to >> explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was not really wrong and >> deserved something more than my anger, I do not >> physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind >> person, >> so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the >> word "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that >> was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just >> isn't all that simple sometimes. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >> >>> The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>> computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>> movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>> in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>> doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>> weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>> if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>> I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>> As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>> something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>> mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>> say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>> them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>> included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>> in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>> apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>> would I know about that! >> >>> On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo >>>> with >>>> no >>>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I >>>> told >>>> him >>>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that >>>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it >>>> as >>>> me >>>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>>> >>>>> Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>> we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd >>>>> do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate >>>>> it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't >>>>> think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we >>>>> like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not >>>>> helping by spurring that misconception on. >>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get >>>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to >>>>>> tv, dogs and horses >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>>> cultures. >>>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>>> conversation. It is >>>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar >>>>>> or more >>>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew. >>>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>>> almost always. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>>> cultures. A >>>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows, >>>>>> big eyes >>>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared. >>>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>>> front facing >>>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a >>>>>> balloon and >>>>>> the string is on your finger... >>>>>> >>>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>>> it means >>>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem, >>>>>> glee club, >>>>>> getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted >>>>>> world without >>>>>> some sighted help. >>>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>>> blind >>>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or >>>>>> parents will >>>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and >>>>>> with >>>>>> questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over >>>>>> your heart, as >>>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are >>>>>> terrified of >>>>>> something? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>>> called >>>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both >>>>>> names >>>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that >>>>>> there is >>>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that, >>>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people >>>>>> both. >>>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a >>>>>> nonjudgmental >>>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>>> and >>>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a >>>>>> place >>>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way. >>>>>> Also, >>>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>>> majority >>>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep >>>>>> teachers >>>>>> and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>>> be >>>>>> happy to help out with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Names: >>>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) >>>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted) >>>>>> talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some names... >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the >>>>>> only thing >>>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>>> really >>>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be >>>>>> a cool >>>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to >>>>>> go >>>>>> that route. >>>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of >>>>>> contension on >>>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>>> organization's >>>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating >>>>>> situations >>>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so >>>>>> choose, >>>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one. >>>>>> I >>>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their >>>>>> social >>>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB >>>>>> would help >>>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what >>>>>> will >>>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on >>>>>> doing >>>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would >>>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a >>>>>> problem, >>>>>> it's just something to consider. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>>> student and >>>>>> NFB's >>>>>> >>>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>>> things. So >>>>>> I >>>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and >>>>>> whatnot to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>>> jump at the >>>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially >>>>>> acceptable blind or >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>>> that >>>>>> someone >>>>>> >>>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>>> Because this is >>>>>> such a big issue. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> societyat >>>>>> >>>>>> social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>>> offending >>>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB >>>>>> or >>>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no >>>>>> matter >>>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how >>>>>> they fit >>>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people, >>>>>> whether >>>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as >>>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have >>>>>> to >>>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as >>>>>> anyone >>>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be >>>>>> treated >>>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young, >>>>>> and >>>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are >>>>>> just as >>>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both >>>>>> as our >>>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>>> someone >>>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>>> of >>>>>> me because it just does for some reason. >>>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care >>>>>> of >>>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind >>>>>> woman >>>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working >>>>>> for >>>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules >>>>>> which >>>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we >>>>>> are >>>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>>> interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people >>>>>> are >>>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we >>>>>> can >>>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the >>>>>> message >>>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the >>>>>> formation >>>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, >>>>>> and >>>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>>> >>>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this >>>>>> has >>>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of >>>>>> mostly >>>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the >>>>>> effort >>>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called >>>>>> right >>>>>> way to act. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't >>>>>> judge >>>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge >>>>>> someone >>>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we >>>>>> should >>>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>>> message. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut >>>>>> out >>>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic >>>>>> of >>>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>>> sex. There is >>>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one >>>>>> with >>>>>> some >>>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>>> :) >>>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by >>>>>> the >>>>>> blind >>>>>> community. >>>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth >>>>>> or >>>>>> not) have >>>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>>> against the grain >>>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>>> suggested that >>>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>>> world thinks. >>>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>>> looks at a >>>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so >>>>>> weird. >>>>>> or a >>>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>>> him and when >>>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>>> really weird and >>>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>>> both sexual >>>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>>> of attention >>>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>>> aren't meant >>>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>>> would greatly >>>>>> improve convention. >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>>> Whozit >>>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are >>>>>> probably >>>>>> some >>>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel >>>>>> that >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual >>>>>> activity >>>>>> among >>>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>>> position, >>>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>>> extension, an >>>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>>> or >>>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, >>>>>> and >>>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>>> diversity >>>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>>> available >>>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>>> fact, >>>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general >>>>>> workshop >>>>>> about >>>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people >>>>>> have >>>>>> never >>>>>> seen >>>>>> >>>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>>> having to >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>>> condoms in >>>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>>> browsing... >>>>>> Condoms, >>>>>> >>>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>>> probably need >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put >>>>>> on >>>>>> a condom >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>>> The >>>>>> packing >>>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and >>>>>> I >>>>>> for one >>>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>>> that sell >>>>>> hot >>>>>> >>>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved >>>>>> to >>>>>> buy a box >>>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>>> (Then of >>>>>> course >>>>>> >>>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> bring >>>>>> their >>>>>> >>>>>> own utensil's). >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>>> convention... >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can >>>>>> even >>>>>> braille >>>>>> them >>>>>> >>>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>>> >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me >>>>>> sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>>> like a breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> mailing >>>>>> list" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>>> >>>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>>> presume? >>>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>>> Silverman >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>>> are kind of in a >>>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>>> for this list, since >>>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>>> too far afield, I >>>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>>> also think that >>>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>>> legitimate one and >>>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>>> including teenagers, >>>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>>> awkwardness or >>>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>>> you have to depend >>>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>>> transportation which can make >>>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>>> including >>>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>>> and >>>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>>> choices at >>>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>>> about condoms. >>>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>>> having sex with a >>>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>>> sex for the first >>>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>>> options are for preventing >>>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>>> advantages and >>>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>>> to use condoms and >>>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>>> websites with this kind >>>>>> of information: >>>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>>> or >>>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>>> the moment because my >>>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>>> guy she had only >>>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>>> birth control pills, >>>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>>> don't believe that >>>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>>> while minimizing the >>>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>>> there are other ways >>>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>>> less risky, which >>>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>>> of you might also be >>>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>>> parents drive you to >>>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>>> sit in or even >>>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>>> college in my home >>>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>>> good opportunity to >>>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>>> health while she was >>>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>>> doctor recommended >>>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>>> realized that while it >>>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>>> you have a right to >>>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>>> important to establish a >>>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>>> person interfering. >>>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>>> health and by the time >>>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>>> your parents being >>>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>>> driver or even >>>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>>> this problem. >>>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>>> school, you should know >>>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>>> regular basis and any >>>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>>> be requested of you. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>>>> mcast.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>>>> s%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 22 18:41:18 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:41:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> Message-ID: <3D334ABADEF94EC3A128A11C0020D3C6@OwnerPC> Brandon, two hands reading is more efficient. What I do is maybe what Arielle does. I read and split the hands up half way through the line or when a majority of the line has finished. I read with both hands and usually two fingers on each hand although all four fingers are on the page, I just notice though I can percieve the dots and really read with my two fingers next to my thumb. Toward the end of a line, my right hand finishes reading while my left hand goes to the next line and waits for the right hand. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hello, Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand on the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, I move my left hand down to the next line. Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of line 2? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for >> improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and >> ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every >> letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither >> does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano >> hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their >> palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together >> until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while >> the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are >> braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice >> makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep >> practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 23 00:54:10 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:54:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> Jewel, This sounds tough. Is your professor restricting the questions and discussion your lab assistant can tell you? It seems to me that any visual info including shape, size, and color would be fine questions for your assistant because sighted people get this info by looking at it. This aids them in identifying the organisms. If they restrict your access, this sounds discriminatory. I'd first clarify what you can ask your assistant. Then explain why the tactile diagram is insufficient. Find an alternative. Could you make a diagram with your assistant from things you bring like wiki sticks, hard candy, and string? Another alternative is to do something in lou of the visual part as long as this isn't your major. If it’s a major course, this issue would arise again and you couldn't get out of this part for many classes. I'm thinking you could answer questions about cells. Your professor could name cells instead of showing you a visual image under the microscope. Then you could describe the cells or something like that. This is anothe r fair way to demonstrate your knowledge it seems to me. I know most federationists aren't big on alternative assignments or changing the work, but this seems more fair to me. I'm not into science. When I took general biology, however, my professor asked me questions on my exam instead of me looking at pictures. Other students looked at a picture and were asked to identify a certain part such as a cell part, a flower part, or muscles of the body. Mine were multiple choice questions as well, just without pictures. The question named the organism in the question. It asked me about that subject in the question. So I didn't have to identify any organisms via pictures or a microscope. I also still had the same number of questions as other students; mine were just worded differently since I did not label pictures. HTH, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jewel Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! ~Jewel _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 00:58:30 2012 From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 17:58:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2> <18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> Message-ID: Hello Terri, I tried this and my speed right away increased... Thank you! My hands have never sweated so much! That must mean I'm doing something right :). I read in an arm chair, but when you mean the palms don't touch the braille, it is really no part of the arm is touching the Braille page, just the 6 fingertips? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: trising Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp for improving Braille Reading Speeds. 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. The index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read close to 300 words per minute. 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. Terri Wilcox _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 01:48:01 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:48:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> References: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Just FYI, I was a biology major and I never had to do any cell identification. Granted, I didn't take microbiology, but I did have some microscope work in general bio labs. I worked on those assignments with my lab assistant and lab partners. I never had to identify cells on an exam based on how they looked, and I don't think my sighted classmates did either. I did have to know where all the cell organelles were located within the cell, and gave verbal descriptions when others were asked to draw pictures. Arielle On 9/22/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Jewel, > This sounds tough. Is your professor restricting the questions and > discussion your lab assistant can tell you? > It seems to me that any visual info including shape, size, and color would > be fine questions for your assistant because sighted people get this info by > looking at it. This aids them in identifying the organisms. If they restrict > your access, this sounds discriminatory. > > I'd first clarify what you can ask your assistant. Then explain why the > tactile diagram is insufficient. Find an alternative. > Could you make a diagram with your assistant from things you bring like wiki > sticks, hard candy, and string? > Another alternative is to do something in lou of the visual part as long as > this isn't your major. > If it’s a major course, this issue would arise again and you couldn't get > out of this part for many classes. > I'm thinking you could answer questions about cells. Your professor could > name cells instead of showing you a visual image under the microscope. > Then you could describe the cells or something like that. This is anothe r > fair way to demonstrate your knowledge it seems to me. > I know most federationists aren't big on alternative assignments or changing > the work, but this seems more fair to me. I'm not into science. When I took > general biology, however, my professor asked me questions on my exam instead > of me looking at pictures. Other students looked at a picture and were asked > to identify a certain part such as a cell part, a flower part, or muscles of > the body. Mine were multiple choice questions as well, just without > pictures. The question named the organism in the question. > It asked me about that subject in the question. So I didn't have to identify > any organisms via pictures or a microscope. > > I also still had the same number of questions as other students; mine were > just worded differently since I did not label pictures. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jewel > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class > > I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, > and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is > identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is > not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I > ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the > cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the > image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and > I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She > says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image > and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What > colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of > questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify > cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can > someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to > tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I > don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 16:36:36 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:36:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? In-Reply-To: References: <069ED5F5E7264BAEAB18D6BDB8CD6A6D@BrandonsLaptop2><4B2BE32E4D2D4B35A9654D295094C176@BrandonsLaptop2><18C1EA835E4C406B9C7C786E7A03D5A6@nickPC> <7EA515F9DD6E4A6884BE9E9C75CC7876@BrandonsLaptop2> <000001cd9861$c64bf9d0$52e3ed70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004101cd99a9$9a566b50$cf0341f0$@gmail.com> Hi Brandon, What you do is what I do. I'm still learning the other, faster one, where you have two hands reading at once. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hello, That split is the one I do, or the one I thought you were doing? The one I do is with my left hand in place while my right hand finishes the line then it smoothly goes to the left hand after my right ends the line. The faster one is where you have two hands moving at once. I don't know about reading ahead at the same time as reading what comes before, so I was wondering if that was really possible. Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:29 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hi Brandon, That is the two-handed split I was talking about. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Keith Biggs Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? Hello, Maybe we are talking about different 2 handed split? I have my right hand on the middle of the line marking me where I am while my left hand is at the start. I then have my left hand go to my right hand and when they connect, I move my left hand down to the next line. Do you read with both the left and right hands at the same time with the right hand reading the end of line 1 and the left hand reading the start of line 2? Thanks, Brandon Keith Biggs -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:28 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Speeding Up Reading? These are all great suggestions. I think putting your middle and ring fingers down on the Braille in addition to your index finger will really help. Also, as you master the two-handed split, you will find you are getting words from both sides of a line at the same time. Your brain will integrate this information from both hands so that you are able to get the gist of a full sentence without reading every word or every letter. Arielle On 9/21/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > My method sounds silly, but it really helped to change my mind set > about reading. Terri said some great things too. I did not do the > speeding up thing but a few times. > > Cindy > > On 9/20/12, trising wrote: >> Here are some things that I tell campers as I direct a week of camp >> for improving Braille Reading Speeds. >> 1. Do not move your lips as you read. Fast readers do not read aloud. >> 2. Use all six fingers on the Braille. More fingers means faster speeds. >> The >> index fingers give details but the tall fingers and ring fingers give >> the shape of the words. Print readers do not read every letter. I do >> not read every letter in Braille and neither does my husband. We read >> close to 300 words per minute. >> 3. Keep palms up off the Braille. Some people benefit when I say >> piano hands. Others thing that there is a soft ball under their palm. >> You do not want to flatten that palm onto the Braille. >> 4. The left hand is more sensitive than the right. Keep both hands >> together until the last word or two. Then, let them separate. The >> left hand tracks back on the line you just read and then drops down, >> while the right gets that last word or two. Then, they are braught >> together again to read most of the subsequent line. Practice makes >> perfect. Even if these things do not help at first, keep practicing >> them, and your speed will increase. I hope this helps. >> >> Terri Wilcox >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >> om >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu Sun Sep 23 17:07:33 2012 From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 17:07:33 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Science, Tech, Engineering, & Math Conference Call Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D8892432649C911@SN2PRD0510MB360.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> For those interested in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) Designed with Students in Mind Contact: John Miller This is the season of excellent conference calls! First, the NABS membership call tonight on Meet the Blind Month events, and now this one... Mark your calendar for: Monday, September 24, at 6:00 PM Pacific, 7:00 PM Mountain, 8:00 PM Central, and 9:00 PM Eastern We will have an exciting 1-hour conference call featuring speakers working in different fields in science, technology, engineering, and math. This conference call is designed specifically for blind students and new professionals in STEM. Speakers include Nathanael Wales, John Miller, and others. Fields of interest will include math, software, and civil engineering. Conference Dial-in Number: (559) 726-1000 Access Code: 493149# Since this will be a big call with many attendees, please mute and unmute yourself, which can be done by pressing star-six. I look forward to NABS having a big presence on this call. We know that science and math are NOT off-limits to the blind! Justin Salisbury Justin M. Salisbury B.A. in Mathematics Class of 2012 East Carolina University president at alumni.ecu.edu “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” —MARGARET MEAD From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 17:22:43 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:22:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01cd99b0$0b930250$22b906f0$@gmail.com> Hi Kirt, "Hear you later" would sound kind of weird, but I agree with you. I was just saying that I didn't think we should have a problem using "see" or "watch," as these terms are part of the English vocabulary. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings Honestly...I don't really give a damn what word we all use. If you want to say "hey...I listen to TV," it's no skin off my back. If you want to say "hear you later," it doesn't really hurt me, even though it might make you look odd in certain situations. (but sometimes looking odd can be good, I guess...to lots of people it looks very odd when I cross a street, and I definitely like not conforming to that particular social norm about blind people, so who am I to judge?) It's kind of like how Thomas jefferson said it Neither picked his pocket nor broke his leg" if his neighbors believed in one god or twenty gods. Say whatever words you want, it doesn't really affect my ability to do the same. Best, Kirt On 9/21/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Movies on a computer can be on MP3 or they can have video. I would > maintain that if you are sitting there with a movie on the computer > that is in MP3 format and you say you are watching it, you are going > to come across more out of touch with the world than saying you are > listening to it. Also, the fact is that when I enjoy a movie I am > listening to it while I would never be watching music so those two > examples are really not interchangeable as you have indicated. Having > said that, I do tend to say that I watched a given thing on TV and > that I haven't seen this or that movie just because it makes sense, > but I think this sort of thing can be carried too far. We are going > to be judged far more by such things as whether we can travel > independently, for example, rather than whether we watch or listen to > TV. I agree with the sentiment expressed by someone else that we are > incorrect to think that there is one social norm that is conformed to > by all sighted people. > This is not meant to support inappropriate behavior such as picking up > food with one's fingers that clearly is not meant to be a finger food, > or not paying attention to what is going on around us. When my > co-worker argued with me about watching TV, I had frankly never > thought about the apparent conflict in what I was saying. The verb > "watched" just went with TV for me, as it does for you. However, I > have come to realize that for some, using that term makes them wonder > if there is some device that I have that let's me get some sense of > what is being displayed. I now understand that my use of that term > may raise questions in the minds of some, and if it is apparent, I can > take the time to explain. When I thought about it, my co-worker was > not really wrong and deserved something more than my anger, I do not > physically watch TV. He saw me as an independent and capable blind > person, so it didn't make sense to him that I would use the word > "watched." To him, it was a sort of denial of my circumstances that > was inconsistent with how I live my life. Life just isn't all that > simple sometimes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:45:46 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > >>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the >>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A >>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken >>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're >>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds >>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could >>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid, >>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around. >>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching >>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really >>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to >>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand >>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't >>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said >>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because >>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what >>would I know about that! > >>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo >>> with no TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it. >>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I >>> told him what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that for me >>> to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as me >>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it. >>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote: >>> >>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what >>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, >>>>we'd do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. >>>>I hate it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they >>>>can't think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what >>>>shows we like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. >>>>you're not helping by spurring that misconception on. >>> >>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah wrote: >>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just >>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For >>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert >>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get my >>>>> first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to tv, >>>>> dogs and horses >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>>>> societyatsocial gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out >>>>> cultures. >>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in >>>>> conversation. It is only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly >>>>> when playing guitar or more heavily when one is studying the old >>>>> testament as a Jew. >>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso >>>>> almost always. >>>>> >>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all >>>>> cultures. A smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or >>>>> raised eyebrows, big eyes with mouth a little open is startled or >>>>> scared. >>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in >>>>> front facing up with the index finger moving up and down like the >>>>> person is a balloon and the string is on your finger... >>>>> >>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because >>>>> it means one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, >>>>> dance teem, glee club, getting in a relationship, dating... >>>>> >>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted world >>>>> without some sighted help. >>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more >>>>> blind people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs >>>>> or parents will help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few >>>>> sighted people and with questions like this they are invaluable... >>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over your >>>>> heart, as if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you >>>>> are terrified of something? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted >>>>> societyat social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv >>>>> called "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". >>>>> Both names imply that all sighted people look and act the same or >>>>> that there is only one way to be socially acceptable; these are >>>>> notions that, frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and >>>>> sighted people both. >>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a nonjudgmental >>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations >>>>> and get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not >>>>> a place where subscribers are told they must look and act a >>>>> certain way. >>>>> Also, >>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast >>>>> majority of the subscribers should be blind people and we should >>>>> keep teachers and authority figures to a minimum. >>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or >>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps. >>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd >>>>> be happy to help out with it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Names: >>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever) >>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB) Looking Sighted (LS or >>>>> LSighted) talk sightless (TSightless) >>>>> >>>>> Just some names... >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the only >>>>> thing holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't >>>>> really think of a name for it. As for making a website, that >>>>> would be a cool idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I >>>>> decided not to go that route. >>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student >>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of contension >>>>> on the list. I don't want people going to war over which >>>>> organization's philosophy prepares people to deal with social and >>>>> dating situations better. It's fine for people to be part of >>>>> whatever they so choose, but I absolutely will not tolerate >>>>> stereotypes about either one. >>>>> I >>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to >>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their social >>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB would >>>>> help them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, >>>>> what will that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever >>>>> intend on doing so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the >>>>> bud if it would happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily >>>>> would become a problem, it's just something to consider. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's >>>>> student and NFB's >>>>> >>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same >>>>> things. So I really believe we should get our sighted parents, >>>>> friends and whatnot to be >>>>> >>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would >>>>> jump at the chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing. >>>>> Just make a group, possibly: >>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially acceptable >>>>> blind or >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas? >>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles >>>>> that someone >>>>> >>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have. >>>>> Because this is >>>>> such a big issue. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat >>>>> >>>>> social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to >>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of >>>>> offending people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate >>>>> from the NFB or ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind >>>>> person, no matter their political or social status or whatever, >>>>> to discuss how they fit in with society. Why does it offend you >>>>> that blind people, whether they be men or women, should try to do >>>>> their best to interact as sighted people do? Are there really >>>>> specific guidelines we have to follow? I really want to >>>>> understand this. I know as well as anyone what struggles we have >>>>> to go through growing up just to be treated like human beings. >>>>> First, we're blind people, then we're young, and the stereotypes >>>>> surrounding young people of our generation are just as crippling >>>>> as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both as our >>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when >>>>> someone actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away. >>>>> >>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth wrote: >>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes: >>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out >>>>> of me because it just does for some reason. >>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls >>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us >>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I >>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and >>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care of >>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my >>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a >>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand >>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we >>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind woman >>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since Jason >>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me >>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or >>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than >>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I, >>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad, >>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working for >>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I >>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different >>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules >>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home >>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Marc Workman >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with >>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings >>>>> >>>>> Chris wrote, >>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules which >>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow >>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we are >>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural, >>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one >>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such >>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety, >>>>> self-loathing, and anguish. >>>>> >>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago, >>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I >>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is >>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is >>>>> interested. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people are >>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can >>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they >>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of >>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we can >>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the message >>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel >>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the formation >>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings, and >>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair, >>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting >>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's >>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has >>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly >>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men >>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women. >>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the >>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot, >>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as >>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the effort >>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more >>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called right >>>>> way to act. >>>>> >>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform >>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed >>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't judge >>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the >>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge someone >>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical >>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being >>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming >>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should >>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind people >>>>> how to look and act like sighted people. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Brandon and all, >>>>> >>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this >>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has >>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we >>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's >>>>> message. >>>>> >>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of >>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can >>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you >>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC >>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their >>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents >>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social >>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially >>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social >>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society. >>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as >>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our >>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it >>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted >>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what >>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird, >>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the >>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut out >>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of >>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very >>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this >>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to >>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class >>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for >>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not >>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind >>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic of >>>>> a future NABS membership call. >>>>> >>>>> Just my thoughts, >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe >>>>> sex. There is >>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one with >>>>> some >>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared... >>>>> :) >>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a >>>>> sighted >>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the >>>>> blind >>>>> community. >>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or >>>>> not) have >>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally >>>>> against the grain >>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has >>>>> suggested that >>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted >>>>> world thinks. >>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world >>>>> looks at a >>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird. >>>>> or a >>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to >>>>> him and when >>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something >>>>> really weird and >>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away. >>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but >>>>> both sexual >>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need >>>>> of attention >>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular. >>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that >>>>> aren't meant >>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems >>>>> would greatly >>>>> improve convention. >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled >>>>> Whozit >>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably >>>>> some >>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that >>>>> NABS >>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity >>>>> among >>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that >>>>> position, >>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by >>>>> extension, an >>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of >>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership >>>>> or >>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate. >>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at >>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and >>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the >>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a >>>>> diversity >>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop >>>>> available >>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in >>>>> fact, >>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general workshop >>>>> about >>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have >>>>> never >>>>> seen >>>>> >>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without >>>>> having to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any >>>>> condoms in >>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was >>>>> browsing... >>>>> Condoms, >>>>> >>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also >>>>> probably need >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on >>>>> a condom >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> use a dental dam. >>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial. >>>>> The >>>>> packing >>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and I >>>>> for one >>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places >>>>> that sell >>>>> hot >>>>> >>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved to >>>>> buy a box >>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone... >>>>> (Then of >>>>> course >>>>> >>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't >>>>> bring >>>>> their >>>>> >>>>> own utensil's). >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB >>>>> convention... >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can even >>>>> braille >>>>> them >>>>> >>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol >>>>> >>>>> Anmol >>>>> >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>>>> like a breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> , "National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing >>>>> list" >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM >>>>> Hi, Brandon, >>>>> >>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on >>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub >>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet. >>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I >>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the >>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If >>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be >>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it, >>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote: >>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are >>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease. >>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I >>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor. >>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually >>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That >>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room. >>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel >>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've >>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or >>>>> knows that site is trust worthy. >>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be >>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I >>>>> presume? >>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How >>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear >>>>> the experience is often not pleasant. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle >>>>> Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating >>>>> are kind of in a >>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic >>>>> for this list, since >>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really >>>>> unique to blindness. >>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting >>>>> too far afield, I >>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I >>>>> also think that >>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a >>>>> legitimate one and >>>>> that there might be other blind people out here, >>>>> including teenagers, >>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get >>>>> condoms, birth control or >>>>> sexual health information without a lot of >>>>> awkwardness or >>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if >>>>> you have to depend >>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for >>>>> transportation which can make >>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult. >>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online, >>>>> including >>>>> www.condomania.com >>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com >>>>> and >>>>> www.condomdepot.com >>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom >>>>> choices at >>>>> www.amazon.com >>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any >>>>> reason, it shouldn't >>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there >>>>> about condoms. >>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin >>>>> having sex with a >>>>> partner because that is a highly individual >>>>> decision. However, I feel >>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having >>>>> sex for the first >>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your >>>>> options are for preventing >>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the >>>>> advantages and >>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way >>>>> to use condoms and >>>>> birth control. There are a couple different >>>>> websites with this kind >>>>> of information: >>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org >>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator) >>>>> or >>>>> www.scarleteen.com >>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at >>>>> the moment because my >>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended >>>>> pregnancy at a very >>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a >>>>> guy she had only >>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking >>>>> birth control pills, >>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I >>>>> don't believe that >>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that >>>>> takes some responsibility, >>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable >>>>> while minimizing the >>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here, >>>>> there are other ways >>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are >>>>> less risky, which >>>>> these online forums will talk about. >>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is >>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual >>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some >>>>> of you might also be >>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your >>>>> parents drive you to >>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to >>>>> sit in or even >>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended >>>>> college in my home >>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my >>>>> doctors' appointments >>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the >>>>> doctor while he/she >>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my >>>>> parents and I saw many of >>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a >>>>> good opportunity to >>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own >>>>> health while she was >>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the >>>>> doctor recommended >>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually >>>>> realized that while it >>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my >>>>> privacy as an adult >>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting >>>>> room while I was seeing >>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand >>>>> until I was 21 and in >>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier. >>>>> By the time you are 18, >>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability, >>>>> you have a right to >>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is >>>>> important to establish a >>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third >>>>> person interfering. >>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual >>>>> health and by the time >>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start >>>>> discussing your sexual >>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without >>>>> your parents being >>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a >>>>> driver or even >>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid >>>>> this problem. >>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high >>>>> school, you should know >>>>> the names of all medications you take on a >>>>> regular basis and any >>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you >>>>> ever have to go to the >>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may >>>>> be requested of you. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>>> your account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi >>>>> %40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co >>>>> mcast.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia% >>>>> 40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>> m%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list >>>>> s%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >>>>> se%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb >>>>> iggs%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/coastergirl92 >>>>> %40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17% >>>>> 40gmail.com >>>>> >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%4 >>>>0visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40 >>> gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40v >>isi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 17:34:29 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:34:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Mm-friends] Fw: [orion-discuss] at long last! In-Reply-To: <418B31606F024442AE4F9371E0628950@ASUSNETBOOK> References: <418B31606F024442AE4F9371E0628950@ASUSNETBOOK> Message-ID: <000c01cd99b1$b05a9540$110fbfc0$@gmail.com> FYI, the release announcement of the Braille Plus 18 from APH: From: mm-friends-bounces at acbradio.org [mailto:mm-friends-bounces at acbradio.org] On Behalf Of David Tanner Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:40 PM To: david.tanner at ssb.state.mn.us Cc: mm-friends at acbradio.org; Earle Harrison; Gennie Eachus Subject: [Mm-friends] Fw: [orion-discuss] at long last! ----- Original Message ----- From: Candy Lien To: orion-discuss at freelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 3:47 PM Subject: [orion-discuss] at long last! Completely Redesigned! Braille Plus 18 Second Generation This powerful, flexible, and easy-to-use notetaker is designed specifically for users who are blind and visually impaired. APH is proud to introduce the Braille Plus 18(TM) Second Generation, developed in partnership with LevelStar, LLC. Like its popular predecessor, the original Braille+, the new Braille Plus 18 Second Generation is a mobile device that puts unprecedented computing power in the hands of students and adults who are braille users. The Braille Plus 18 will quickly become the hub of your on-the-go digital life. Use this handheld device to read books, write class assignments, scan documents, search the web, keep track of appointments, find directions, record lectures, listen to podcasts, run Android(TM) apps, and so much more! Braille Plus 18 combines a high-quality braille keyboard with a built-in 18-cell refreshable braille display. It uses an advanced mobile platform along with specialized software to create the world's first Android device designed specifically for blind users! Features: New! -- Built-in 18-cell Refreshable Braille Display: Improve retention, enjoy privacy, and increase literacy. -- 5MP Camera with Flash: Quickly and accurately convert menus, papers, and books into braille or speech. (1) -- GPS Navigation: Determine current location, discover nearby businesses, and get directions. -- Built-in Google Search: Efficiently start apps or find information. -- Braille Navigation Stick: Maintain privacy and convenience. -- More of the internet: Take full advantage of the internet with HTML5 and plugins. -- Stereo Recording: Record lectures or music with built-in stereo microphones and recorder. -- Full-Size SD Card Slot and USB Port: Share media and documents. -- 3G Wireless: Stay connected with 3G wireless capability (data plan required to access data over 3G). (2) -- Text Messages: Send and receive texts -- Phone Calls: Make and receive calls. -- High-Quality Speakerphone. -- Android Apps: Enjoy thousands of additional apps. (3) -- TV Output: Share or collaborate with sighted peers, teachers, or parents with TV signal outputs. (4) -- Improved! Natural Speech Output: Easily understand human-sounding speech. Upgraded! -- Bluetooth(R) 2.1: Listen to speech or music with a stereo Bluetooth headphone or a mono headset. -- Wi-Fi(R): Connect to Wi-Fi hot spots with wireless 802.11n with custom antenna Additional Features -- Speakers: Enjoy hi-fidelity stereo. -- Cursor Routing Keys: Quickly move the cursor or click on a button; located above each braille cell. -- Thousands of Books Available: Download books and periodicals from the National Library Service (NLS), Reading Ally (formerly RFB&D), and bookshare.org; read using the refreshable braille display or natural speech. Book player supports Word, txt, html, DAISY, Bookshare(R), and is compatible with NLS Digital Talking Books for qualified NLS patrons. (1) -- Word Processor: Create, edit, and read documents in multiple formats and change them to braille. -- Email: Full-featured email program compatible with POP3 and IMAP protocols. -- Contracted Braille: Automatically read everything in contracted braille. -- Calendar and Clock: Schedule appointments and alarms. -- Music and podcasts: Play music files on the device or streamed from the cloud with the music player. Audio player compatible with MP3, WAV, and Ogg; stream audio files from the internet. Notes: 1. Camera does not recognize handwriting. 2. Does not include SIM card. Requires a cell phone plan from AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon-compatible starting in 2013. 3. Not all programs written for Android are accessible. 4. TV not included. 5. Book access requires membership with the respective organization. Specifications -- Operating System: Android 2.3 (version subject to change) -- Size: 6.5 x 4.1 x 1.1 inches -- Weight: 15 ounces -- Built-in stereo speakers and microphone -- 5MP camera with flash -- Memory: 512 MB internal, 1 GB internal, 32 GB flash drive -- Ports: 3.5 mm stereo headphone, headset, or video out jack; 3.5 mm stereo microphone line-in jack; full-size SD(TM) card slot; full-size built-in USB port; Micro USB; SIM card -- Wireless: Bluetooth 2.1, Wi-Fi 802.11n -- GPS antenna -- Battery: rechargeable lithium-ion (not user-replaceable) Includes -- USB AC Adapter -- USB Power/Data Cable -- External Bluetooth GPS device to augment internal receiver -- Earbuds -- Print Quick Start Guide, in print and in braille -- One-year limited warranty Braille Plus 18 and Wireless Communications The Braille Plus 18 is a Wi-Fi device that can access the internet through your Wi-Fi router without needing a cell phone/data plan. Braille Plus 18 is also a cellular device that you can choose to activate through AT&T or T-Mobile. At this time, the Braille Plus 18 can only be activated with these two carriers. A cell phone/data plan will allow you to access the internet in many more locations than Wi-Fi alone and lets you make phone calls. Please contact your local AT&T or T-Mobile dealer if you wish to activate your Braille Plus 18. APH does not directly offer cell plans. To Order Braille Plus 18 Second Generation: 1-07466-00 -- $3,299.00* + shipping *Introductory price, ends Oct. 12, 2012 Braille Plus 18 Second Generation IS available with Quota funds. ADDITIONAL SHIPPING CHARGE All shipments will incur actual UPS shipping rates based on the destination. http://shop.aph.org American Printing House for the Blind, Inc. 1839 Frankfort Avenue P.O. Box 6085 Louisville, Kentucky 40206-0085 502-895-2405 800-223-1839 Fax: 502-899-2284 info at aph.org www.aph.org http://shop.aph.org Service Since 1858 9 -12 -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Mm-friends mailing list Mm-friends at acbradio.org http://acbradio.org/mailman/listinfo/mm-friends From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 17:52:11 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:52:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Scholarship Information In-Reply-To: <00bd01cd9735$fab15940$f0140bc0$@lbph.lib.md.us> References: <00bd01cd9735$fab15940$f0140bc0$@lbph.lib.md.us> Message-ID: <000301cd99b4$295e47a0$7c1ad6e0$@gmail.com> FYI: From: Mollyne Honor [mailto:mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US] Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:44 AM To: LBPH_INFO-L at LISTSRV.MSDE.STATE.MD.US Subject: Scholarship Information Importance: High Here is a scholarship search tool I think you will find most helpful. http://www.careerinfonet.org/scholarshipsearch/ScholarshipCategory.asp?searchtype=category &nodeid=22 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 18:24:00 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:24:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001001cd99b8$9b97ee30$d2c7ca90$@gmail.com> Hi Andrew, I know exactly how you feel, as it has often happened to me at church as well as at other events. I would just advise you to get involved in as many things as you can at church and try to put yourself in positions in which you have the opportunity to interact with your fellow church members as much as you can. They might not talk to you at first, but I think you'll be surprised how much they interact with you as time goes on, as they realize that you're a normal person even though you're blind. If you have any more questions or need any help, please feel free to write me off-list at dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com. Good luck, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Edgcumbe Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:50 AM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church Hi nabs students readers I hope you all are doing well. Anyway I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like that. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 18:36:53 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:36:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Nfbmd] Searching for Blind Visual Artists!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cd99ba$67eb8ef0$37c2acd0$@gmail.com> -----Original Message----- From: nfbmd-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbmd-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa Lomax Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:20 PM To: nfbmd at nfbnet.org Subject: [Nfbmd] Searching for Blind Visual Artists!! Hello all, I am writing this email on behalf on Audra Gotjen, senior at UMBC. For her senior project, she is developing a documentary on the Visually Impaired in the Visual Arts. She herself has a visual impairment and has a passion for film and cinematography, which is her major. If you fit the description of a visually impaired, or blind, person in the visual arts and would like to be on this documentary, please email me back. This also applies if you know someone who you think would be interested. My name is Melissa Lomax and my email address is mlomax1 at umbc.edu. For my specific questions about the study, please email Audra Gotjen at gotjen1 at umbc.edu. Thanks! Melissa L. -- Melissa Lomax University of Maryland, Baltimore County Class of 2013 English-Literature Major English-Writing and Sociology Double Minor InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Treasurer Maryland Association of Blind Students, President _______________________________________________ Nfbmd mailing list Nfbmd at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmd_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmd: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmd_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.co m From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 18:39:22 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:39:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] two questions about the ipad and the braillenote apex In-Reply-To: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9@mx.google.com> References: <5059155c.1128650a.6edd.ffff87f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001801cd99ba$c0d454c0$427cfe40$@gmail.com> Hi Vejas, Do you have contracted Braille enabled on your iPad? Thanks, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of vejas Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:44 PM To: braillenote at list.humanware.com; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] two questions about the ipad and the braillenote apex Hi All, I'm starting to learn how to use my ipad with the braille note apex as a keyboard. But there are 2 questions that I have. First, how do you go forward a page when you are reading on ibooks? A manual said it was space with o, but that actually takes me to the braille note options menu. Second, how do you capitalize in the beginning of a sentance? The ipad only seems to capitalize words in the middle. Let's take this sentence as an example: They went to South Africa last month. The ipad will automatically capitalize South Africa, but not they. Please if you could answer any of these questions, I'd greatly aprreciate it. Vejas _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 19:04:48 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:04:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! In-Reply-To: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> References: <00a001cd942d$a940ae40$fbc20ac0$@com> Message-ID: <001d01cd99be$4e688100$eb398300$@gmail.com> Hi Gerardo, Welcome to the list! I look forward to seeing your ideas and other contributions here! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gerardo Corripio Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:07 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings! Hi listers: I'm Gerardo from Tampico in Mexico. Though I'm not a student, (I've got a psychology major and am nearly 35 years old) I feel I can help and give ideas/suggestions on my days as a student. Also hope to recall those good times when I'd have to get up early, get home and do homework etc etc. Thanks for letting me in. Gerardo _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 19:29:49 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:29:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church In-Reply-To: <001001cd99b8$9b97ee30$d2c7ca90$@gmail.com> References: <001001cd99b8$9b97ee30$d2c7ca90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51D5F124-CCEF-48BD-BCDA-937CFAED8E8B@gmail.com> Hi Chris, I joined the dance team so that the people at the church and the dance team could get to no them, and I could get to no them. I started danceing at age 3. So the obvious skills show in practice and performance. I have done a talk about autism, in April, I danced a solo that I coriagraphed And I coriagraphed a routine for the hole team to do. Communication can be intertainning but it may get better. Sent from my iPad On Sep 23, 2012, at 14:24, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > I know exactly how you feel, as it has often happened to me at church as > well as at other events. I would just advise you to get involved in as many > things as you can at church and try to put yourself in positions in which > you have the opportunity to interact with your fellow church members as much > as you can. They might not talk to you at first, but I think you'll be > surprised how much they interact with you as time goes on, as they realize > that you're a normal person even though you're blind. If you have any more > questions or need any help, please feel free to write me off-list at > dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com. > > Good luck, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Andrew Edgcumbe > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:50 AM > To: nabs-l > Subject: [nabs-l] having a hard time fitting in at church > > Hi nabs students readers > > I hope you all are doing well. > > > Anyway > I am struggling with fitting in at my church and things. > > I been having a hard time finding friends to talk to there and things. > > They all seem to talk to each other and just walk away from me and things. > every time after the service is over they just talk to each other's friends > and i am not really talked to much at all i am often left sitting alone > sometimes they walk out of the church pew all together and things i get left > behind allot i don't get included in going out to lunch and things like > that. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com Sun Sep 23 20:11:26 2012 From: djdrocks22180 at audioaccessfm.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:11:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Listen To Tonight's Nabs Conference Call Live Online In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B463FCF77B44257ACF86B7B88709B87@WildJasmine> Hi Everyone! As you may or may not know, The National Association Of Blind Students Membership Committee is presenting a conference call tonight that deals with Meet The Blind Month, which begins in October. Below are the details for calling in to the conference, then read on for additional conference access if you can't call in. The call will take place tonight, Sunday, September 23, 2012 at 7 PM eastern time. The guest speaker at tonight's conference will be Mika Baugh from our national center. She'll be talking about our month-long promotion and education campaign, as she will share ideas and experiences that are sure to spark your creative side. Be advised that we have a new telephone number for the conferences. To participate, dial 530-881-1212 and when you're prompted for the conference access code, enter in 757-809-541 Now, here's something many new members on here may not know... In conjunction with the online radio station Audio Access FM http://www.audioaccess.fm these conference calls are streamed live over the internet, so if you can't call in but want to listen using your PC, mac or mobile device, you can. You can listen in by going to either http://www.audioaccessfm.com or if that link gives you troubles, visit http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php to tune in. And if you're seeing this email long after the call has taken place, a link to download a recording of the call will be made available for your convenience. Hope to see you there tonight! >From David Dunphy, Call Recorder and host of The Djd Invasion Monday Nights, 8 to 10PM eastern http://www.audioaccessfm.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 20:32:27 2012 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 13:32:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: The National Association of Blind Students Presents: Meet The Blind Month and how you can get involved! Message-ID: Greetings fellow blind students! October is “Meet The Blind Month," and the National Association of Blind Students wants to make this year’s activities the most exciting and student-active to date. With this in mind, the membership committee invites you all to the September membership call “Meet The Blind Month." Join us on Sunday, as we hear from Mika Baugh from our national center about our month-long promotion and education campaign, as she will share ideas and experiences that are sure to spark your creative side. What: meet The Blind Month Conference Call. When: Sunday, September 23rd, 2012 at 7p.m. ET. Where: Conference call, (530) 881-1212 code: 757-809-541 We look forward to you joining us! The Nabs Membership Committee. From brlsurfer at gmail.com Sun Sep 23 23:01:41 2012 From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:01:41 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] has anybody used this site before? Message-ID: <505f94db.81cfe00a.4d3a.ffffe6be@mx.google.com> Hi, Has anybody usedwordchamp.com before? It's a language site that has different translation activities, so if you took Spanish or French you may have used it. Anyway, I'm having problems accessing it. I first tried it on my braille note apex, but unfortunately couldn't get past login. I also tried it on my PC. However, although I was able to log in, none of the translation drills' names were displayed, so there were a bunch of links with "start drill." When I tried a translation drill it wouldn't start it. Any ideas about accessing it? Vejas From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 00:09:31 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Message-ID: hey all, I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am also getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat aps I should get? Thanks From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 02:07:03 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:07:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Message-ID: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: 1. Read2Go: bookshare app 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: color identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gloria G" References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Gloria: I don't know about the specific keyboard you are talking about, but I had an experience with keyboards. I am on my 3rd and finally satisfied. My first waqs the cheapest blue tooth I could find on Amazon, and it was flat with no bumps on the F and the J. I hated it. So, I thought I would get a keyboard case. This particular case did not surround the top and bottom edges of my phone. Whenever I dropped my phone, since the keyboard section was lighter and on the back, it caused the weighted side of my phone to always be the front screen. I dropped my phone once and the top edge of the glass on the front of my phone cracked. If you are really careful with your things, and if this keyboard case surrounds all sides of your phone, then you're probably good to go. But I wanted to share my experience. I now use the mini blue tooth keyboard the the A T Guys sell, and although it is not physically connected to my phone, it is incredible and I love it. The apps previously mentioned are great. There is a variety of apps that you can get, some of them blindness related, some of them not. There is an app called Viz Wiz, and you can take a picture of items that might have writing on them, and you can send this picture to someone who can tell you what something says or looks like. It is finicky since you have to take pictures, but it can be helpful. You can also download Around Me, an app that will give you information about surrounding locations. I love the Sendero Look Around gps. My favorite feature is that it tells you the nearest cross street. It is great when you're traveling in unfamiliar areas or if you get turned around. I also love the Navigon GPS which is also great if you are getting a ride somewhere and if you want to make sure your driver is efficient. It does pedestrian directions as well. But you can find apps for everything. I have random fact apps, an iFarkle game app that is accessible, DropBox, apps for your bank and credit cards and PayPal, Facebook, Twitter, you name it. So just search for things you enjoy. I have a couple of apps that list nearby happy hours. One is made by goTime and is called Happy Hours. Make sure your city is supported before downloading location specific apps like the Happy Hour ones. I also have shopping apps like for Amazon and the Apple Store. There are also a Blind Bargains and Craigslist apps if you like to look for deals. The sky is the limit. Getting used to the iPhone is a learning curve, and I found the iPhone book published by the National Braille Press to be very descriptive and helpful. Even if you have to get a version for an older iPhone if the iPhone 5 book hasn't come out, most of the information will still be accurate. Cindy On 9/24/12, Sophie Trist wrote: > Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: > 1. Read2Go: bookshare app > 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier > 3. Aid Colors: color identifier > 4. Saytext: OCR scanner > 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore > 6. Blio (if you like audio books) > > Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or > tips. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > hey all, > I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I > am also getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the > phone. Does anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are > there any neat aps I should get? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 13:15:02 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:15:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: > 1. Read2Go: bookshare app > 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier > 3. Aid Colors: color identifier > 4. Saytext: OCR scanner > 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore > 6. Blio (if you like audio books) > > Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > hey all, > I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am also > getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does > anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat aps I > should get? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 15:11:46 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:11:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in seconds *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for school, very handy in math and science classes Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full access to Blackboard Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing around Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 gestures. Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and what the president and his wife are up to *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink Radio: This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? Put the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with paper coupons of any kind! *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has sidewalks. Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. This really works! *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. I'm still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones mentioned above, which I also endorse. A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, you'll be an expert at it. ~Jewel On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > >> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier >> 3. Aid Colors: color identifier >> 4. Saytext: OCR scanner >> 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore >> 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >> >> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> hey all, >> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am also >> >> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does >> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat aps I >> >> should get? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From gloria.graves at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 16:00:58 2012 From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these aps out ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: > *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in seconds > *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, > though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash > feature of your phone > *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for school, very handy in > math and science classes > Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi > or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you > type, such as if you mispell the word > *Blackboard Mobile Learn: Another great school app that I use almost > daily. It gives you full access to Blackboard > Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your > phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool > if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing > around > Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible > ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 > gestures. > Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical > notes while avoiding enemies > *White House: News straight from the President's office, great for > keeping up with federal programs and what the president and his wife > are up to > *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on > products and books that are very useful > *NFB Newsline: Amazing app that brings Newsline to your phone without > having to call the number. All the same features are there, so it's > easy to learn > *iBlink Radio: This is the app to go to for your local reading radio > service, as well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time > Radio Shows station > *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a > grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and use > to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new > recipes > *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? Put the card > info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you go > shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed to > you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with > paper coupons of any kind! > *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new > neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't > have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus > stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has > sidewalks. > Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something > similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. This > really works! > *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. I'm > still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots > of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. > > Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I > have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones > mentioned above, which I also endorse. > > A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple > store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set > up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you > bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for > me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, > you'll be an expert at it. > > ~Jewel > > On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier >>> 3. Aid Colors: color identifier >>> 4. Saytext: OCR scanner >>> 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore >>> 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>> >>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gloria G" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> hey all, >>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am >>> also >>> >>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does >>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat aps >>> I >>> >>> should get? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com From rbacchus228 at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 17:21:02 2012 From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Baccchus) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:21:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Via Email Message-ID: <5061e815.eaaaec0a.1503.6a76@mx.google.com> Hi everyone I have a question you. Recently I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email I received the confirmation email saying that I was subscribed and have not yet received an issue of Future Reflections. What should I do about this? From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Sep 25 20:55:31 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:55:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Via Email In-Reply-To: <5061e815.eaaaec0a.1503.6a76@mx.google.com> References: <5061e815.eaaaec0a.1503.6a76@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <68FAAB0CA00F4FF0A4211F59286F0936@OwnerPC> the magazine only is quarterly; just wait til the next issue comes out. -----Original Message----- From: Roanna Baccchus Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 1:21 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Future Reflections Via Email Hi everyone I have a question you. Recently I signed up to receive Future Reflections via email I received the confirmation email saying that I was subscribed and have not yet received an issue of Future Reflections. What should I do about this? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 20:58:05 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:58:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Self-Driving Cars Will Take Over By 2040 Message-ID: Eco-nomics Stories from the Mother Nature Network http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/09/25/self-driving-cars-will-take-over-by-2040/ Green Tech|9/25/2012 @ 11:39AM |833 views Self-Driving Cars Will Take Over By 2040 Mother Nature Network, Contributor Written by Jim Motavalli The driverless car 'Made in Germany' (MIG), which from the outside looks like a regular Volkswagen Passat with a camera on top, is being put through its paces at Berlin's disused Tempelhof airport. (Image credit: AFP/Getty Images via @daylife) Even without a debate over we really want our cars to drive themselves, autonomous vehicles keep gaining ground. There aren’t any on the market yet, but the momentum is clearly building. Why? Because the technology is moving fast, and both researchers and automakers see a path to a lucrative new market. Plus, kids—mine included—don’t seem to be all that keen on driving anyway. The driver-free concept is simple enough, but the tech is cutting edge. The cars talk to other cars and the surrounding terrain with sensors, and also stay in touch with centralized command posts. Intersections will bristle with cameras, radar and sensors to control traffic flow and prevent collisions. Traffic lights will become a quaint memory. Wired opined last week that you won’t need a driver’s license by 2040. Its evidence: GM’s Cadillac division expects to produce mass-market partially autonomous cars by 2015; Audi and BMW have shown self-driving concept cars, and Audi had a TT drive itself up Pikes Peak. BMW has an interim technology called ConnectedDrive Connect that offers semi-autonomous driving. The company says it could be on the road in a few years; Google has a fleet of autonomous Toyota Priuses and other cars (see photo below), which together have covered a million miles. With Google’s enthusiastic lobbying, Nevada has legalized autonomous driving, and California seems to be close to taking that step; Volvo is has completed its SARTRE study of autonomous driving, which concentrates on “platooning,” moving self-driven vehicles in closely spaced “road trains” led by a single professional driver. It’s estimated that platooning has the potential of 20 percent energy savings. Part of SARTRE is an in-depth look at consumer attitudes. Some studies show that 18 to 37-year-olds are the most accepting, and some drivers are apprehensive about the idea; ABI Research says carmakers spent more than $10 billion on “advanced driver assistance systems” in 2011. The company said the number could jump to $130 billion by 2016. Further support came from IEEE, the technology trade group, which identified autonomous cars as “the most promising form of intelligent transportation.” The group said that self-driving vehicles would be 75 percent of the traffic stream by 2040. “Since we can use the existing network of roadways, autonomous vehicles are advantageous for changing how the majority of the world will travel on a daily basis,” said Dr. Alberto Broggi, an IEEE senior member and a professor at the University of Parma. N 2010, Dr. Broggi directed a project that saw two driverless cars traveling solo from Parma to Shanghai, a distance of 8,000 miles. I talked to Dr, Azim Eskandarian, an IEEE member and director of the Center for Intelligent Systems at George Washington University. “I believe that the technology is here,” he told me. “The engineering and science needed to make autonomous cars practical in regular traffic situations is available.” He cautioned that today’s cost for sensors, actuators, radar and the other necessary hardware is high, but coming down. “Cost is an issue, but not a show stopper,” he said. A bigger obstacle is social, Dr. Eskandarian said. “Autonomous driving may not be for everyone,” he said. “Some people enjoy driving, and don’t want to give up control. For others, the convenience of being able to name a destination and have your car take you there will outweigh that. Think of the advantage for some populations, including the handicapped and impaired drivers, or the elderly who have trouble seeing at night.” The blind or quadriplegic could be back in the driver’s seat. Not all the technical hurdles involve the autonomous systems, which seem well on the road to commercialization. Dr. Eskandarian points out that cars will need “a higher level of reliability and robustness.” Since cars will likely travel more closely together than they do currently, fail-safe braking is one essential to avoid a chain collision. Also, it’s hard to see autonomy getting much traction until sensor technology is widely installed on cars—they have to talk with each other for it to work. In the near future, we may have autonomous lanes to complement HOV, with cars traveling only a few part as their “drivers” text on their smart phones. Dr. Eskandarian said that Japan, where navigation systems are hugely popular and automation is a big thing, is making the greatest forward progress in adopting autonomous driving. But Japanese and German companies often base their autonomous tech centers in the U.S. because of the expertise here. We already have early-stage self-driving technology in our cars—including lane departure warnings, adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance and more. In a few years, most cars will probably be able to detect hazards ahead and commandeer the brake pedal. “Active safety” is the new watchword, and Europe is taking the lead in getting it on board cars. The main question doesn’t seem to be whether autonomous cars will happen but when. “I’m pretty sure all this will come,” Dr. Eskandarian said. “It’s hard to say which country will introduce it first. I don’t have the timetable.” Jim Motavalli blogs for the Mother Nature Network More from the Mother Nature Network: Hit the road, Jack: The incredible disappearing spare tire Amazing engines promise 60 to 100 mpg 5 postwar American cars that set trends -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This article is available online at: http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/09/25/self-driving-cars-will-take-over-by-2040/ -- Deb's Cell: 520-225-8244 From deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 21:00:34 2012 From: deb.mendelsohn at gmail.com (Deb Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:00:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] self-driving-cars-will-take-over-by-2040/ Message-ID: http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/09/25/self-driving-cars-will-take-over-by-2040/ Eco-nomics Stories from the Mother Nature Network Green Tech|9/25/2012 @ 11:39AM |846 views Self-Driving Cars Will Take Over By 2040 Mother Nature Network, Contributor Written by Jim Motavalli The driverless car 'Made in Germany' (MIG), which from the outside looks like a regular Volkswagen Passat with a camera on top, is being put through its paces at Berlin's disused Tempelhof airport. (Image credit: AFP/Getty Images via @daylife) Even without a debate over we really want our cars to drive themselves, autonomous vehicles keep gaining ground. There aren’t any on the market yet, but the momentum is clearly building. Why? Because the technology is moving fast, and both researchers and automakers see a path to a lucrative new market. Plus, kids—mine included—don’t seem to be all that keen on driving anyway. The driver-free concept is simple enough, but the tech is cutting edge. The cars talk to other cars and the surrounding terrain with sensors, and also stay in touch with centralized command posts. Intersections will bristle with cameras, radar and sensors to control traffic flow and prevent collisions. Traffic lights will become a quaint memory. Wired opined last week that you won’t need a driver’s license by 2040. Its evidence: GM’s Cadillac division expects to produce mass-market partially autonomous cars by 2015; Audi and BMW have shown self-driving concept cars, and Audi had a TT drive itself up Pikes Peak. BMW has an interim technology called ConnectedDrive Connect that offers semi-autonomous driving. The company says it could be on the road in a few years; Google has a fleet of autonomous Toyota Priuses and other cars (see photo below), which together have covered a million miles. With Google’s enthusiastic lobbying, Nevada has legalized autonomous driving, and California seems to be close to taking that step; Volvo is has completed its SARTRE study of autonomous driving, which concentrates on “platooning,” moving self-driven vehicles in closely spaced “road trains” led by a single professional driver. It’s estimated that platooning has the potential of 20 percent energy savings. Part of SARTRE is an in-depth look at consumer attitudes. Some studies show that 18 to 37-year-olds are the most accepting, and some drivers are apprehensive about the idea; ABI Research says carmakers spent more than $10 billion on “advanced driver assistance systems” in 2011. The company said the number could jump to $130 billion by 2016. Further support came from IEEE, the technology trade group, which identified autonomous cars as “the most promising form of intelligent transportation.” The group said that self-driving vehicles would be 75 percent of the traffic stream by 2040. “Since we can use the existing network of roadways, autonomous vehicles are advantageous for changing how the majority of the world will travel on a daily basis,” said Dr. Alberto Broggi, an IEEE senior member and a professor at the University of Parma. N 2010, Dr. Broggi directed a project that saw two driverless cars traveling solo from Parma to Shanghai, a distance of 8,000 miles. I talked to Dr, Azim Eskandarian, an IEEE member and director of the Center for Intelligent Systems at George Washington University. “I believe that the technology is here,” he told me. “The engineering and science needed to make autonomous cars practical in regular traffic situations is available.” He cautioned that today’s cost for sensors, actuators, radar and the other necessary hardware is high, but coming down. “Cost is an issue, but not a show stopper,” he said. A bigger obstacle is social, Dr. Eskandarian said. “Autonomous driving may not be for everyone,” he said. “Some people enjoy driving, and don’t want to give up control. For others, the convenience of being able to name a destination and have your car take you there will outweigh that. Think of the advantage for some populations, including the handicapped and impaired drivers, or the elderly who have trouble seeing at night.” The blind or quadriplegic could be back in the driver’s seat. Not all the technical hurdles involve the autonomous systems, which seem well on the road to commercialization. Dr. Eskandarian points out that cars will need “a higher level of reliability and robustness.” Since cars will likely travel more closely together than they do currently, fail-safe braking is one essential to avoid a chain collision. Also, it’s hard to see autonomy getting much traction until sensor technology is widely installed on cars—they have to talk with each other for it to work. In the near future, we may have autonomous lanes to complement HOV, with cars traveling only a few part as their “drivers” text on their smart phones. Dr. Eskandarian said that Japan, where navigation systems are hugely popular and automation is a big thing, is making the greatest forward progress in adopting autonomous driving. But Japanese and German companies often base their autonomous tech centers in the U.S. because of the expertise here. We already have early-stage self-driving technology in our cars—including lane departure warnings, adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance and more. In a few years, most cars will probably be able to detect hazards ahead and commandeer the brake pedal. “Active safety” is the new watchword, and Europe is taking the lead in getting it on board cars. The main question doesn’t seem to be whether autonomous cars will happen but when. “I’m pretty sure all this will come,” Dr. Eskandarian said. “It’s hard to say which country will introduce it first. I don’t have the timetable.” Jim Motavalli blogs for the Mother Nature Network More from the Mother Nature Network: Hit the road, Jack: The incredible disappearing spare tire Amazing engines promise 60 to 100 mpg 5 postwar American cars that set trends -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This article is available online at: http://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/09/25/self-driving-cars-will-take-over-by-2040/ From opensesame at me.com Tue Sep 25 21:10:38 2012 From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:10:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Good lists so far. Here are a few favorite Apps I use for school. 1. The LearningAlly App. While I personally prefer to read e-textbooks rather than audiobooks, the folks at LearningAlly are doing a commendable job with their app and I've used it alot to supplement my e-book reading. 2. Flashcards++. Note the "++" on the end of the app name. There are a ton of flashcard apps, but this one is fulley VO accessible and is feature-rich. The developer is a student of languages and actually designed some features into this app to help when studying languages, but the app works well for any sort of flashcards, not just language cards. 3. Clearrecord. I use my iphone to record all class lectures, and for the last few semesters I did all of my recording with this app because it does a good job of cutting out background noise while picking up the prof's speech. Unfortunately, the app is weak in terms of playback features, so I'm in the process of evaluating the "List Recorder" app which is designed specifically for use with VO and gets high marks in the User communities. 4. The iBooks app. This is Apple's bookstore App that can also handle non-DRM PDF files. Both the controls and the body of the text are VO accessible, something that cannot be said for most other reading apps. 5. Speak It. This is an accessible Text-to-Speech app that can read text aloud even when you lock the screen or switch to another app. It comes with a few TTS voices and you can purchase others for 99 cents each. The app has a few glitches, such as sometimes jumping back to the top of the text, and the developer hasn't updated it in a while, but it's still useful for some things IMHO. 6. Prizmo. This is a decent OCR app if you have an iphone 4 or 4S, though I've heard the camera on the 3GS isn't really good enough. The OCR process takes place on the phone, no Internet connection required unlike many other OCR apps. A good set of instructions were posted toapplevis.com by Anne Robertson. A new OCR app called "Text Detective" was recently released and is getting some good reviews also. HTH, Bryan > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > >> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in seconds >> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >> feature of your phone >> *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for school, very handy in >> math and science classes >> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >> type, such as if you mispell the word >> *Blackboard Mobile Learn: Another great school app that I use almost >> daily. It gives you full access to Blackboard >> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >> around >> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 gestures. >> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >> notes while avoiding enemies >> *White House: News straight from the President's office, great for >> keeping up with federal programs and what the president and his wife >> are up to >> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >> products and books that are very useful >> *NFB Newsline: Amazing app that brings Newsline to your phone without >> having to call the number. All the same features are there, so it's >> easy to learn >> *iBlink Radio: This is the app to go to for your local reading radio >> service, as well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time >> Radio Shows station >> *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a >> grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and use >> to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >> recipes >> *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? Put the card >> info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you go >> shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed to >> you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >> paper coupons of any kind! >> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >> sidewalks. >> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. This >> really works! >> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. I'm >> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >> >> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >> >> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set >> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for >> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, >> you'll be an expert at it. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>> thanks >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier >>>> 3. Aid Colors: color identifier >>>> 4. Saytext: OCR scanner >>>> 5. iBooks: gives access to the Apple bookstore >>>> 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>> >>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gloria G" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> hey all, >>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am also >>>> >>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does >>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat aps I >>>> >>>> should get? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/opensesame%40me.com From olgapetrovic21 at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 23:46:57 2012 From: olgapetrovic21 at gmail.com (olga Petrovic) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 01:46:57 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] test Message-ID: <4FB742D7-AA7F-4520-80B5-F57F5566AEE0@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone 4 From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 26 00:04:39 2012 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:04:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Drawing for iBill Message-ID: > > >The Greater Providence Chapter of the NFB of Rhode Island is pleased to >announce that we are offering chances to a drawing for a brand new iBill >Talking Money Identifier, that was generously donated to the chapter. >Chances are only $3 for 1 and $5 for 3 and can be purchased at >www.nfbri.org/ibill > >Thank you and good luck. > >ƒÞ Rui Cabral >ƒÞ President, NFBRI, Greater Providence Chapter "NFBRI, Greater Providence Chapter" From todd.orlowski at yahoo.co.uk Wed Sep 26 16:24:23 2012 From: todd.orlowski at yahoo.co.uk (Todd Orlowski) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:24:23 +0100 (BST) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <1348676663.67187.YahooMailNeo@web132405.mail.ird.yahoo.com> http://transmodart.com/wp-content/plugins/akismet/google.html?to=jb.gio&wm=gng.gdf&mbf=wcbp From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 16:40:40 2012 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <1348677640.32951.YahooMailNeo@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> http://www.dublemproduction.com/wp-content/plugins/google.html?uq=gsy.jdg&himoj=cym.gdf&snbebf=yyha From andrewjedg at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 17:55:16 2012 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew Edgcumbe) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:55:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] email problems people are having Message-ID: Hi all just in the last bit I have seen two emails come through with no subject judging by the web site from these email addresses rob and can't place what the other name is but it looks like the email accounts have been hacked. I would reckommend you change your password in your email account. I am not sure if it is possible that this group has been hacked or not as well or if it is just these emails that come though of these individual's who were hacked. From zerone1683 at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 18:44:08 2012 From: zerone1683 at gmail.com (Chun Chao) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:44:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] email problems people are having In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I seem to be having the same issue as well from emails outside of the NFBnet listservs. C.C. Alan On 9/26/12, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: > Hi all > > just in the last bit I have seen two emails come through with no > subject judging by the web site from these email addresses rob and > can't place what the other name is but it looks like the email > accounts have been hacked. > > I would reckommend you change your password in your email account. > I am not sure if it is possible that this group has been hacked or > not as well or if it is just these emails that come though of these > individual's who were hacked. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com > From andrewjedg at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 18:48:10 2012 From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew Edgcumbe) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:48:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] email problems people are having In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: allan that is because two people were just hacked rob and a thomas are the names the emails were sent to the group itself or the subject line appeared that way. On 9/26/12, Chun Chao wrote: > I seem to be having the same issue as well from emails outside of the > NFBnet listservs. > > C.C. Alan > > On 9/26/12, Andrew Edgcumbe wrote: >> Hi all >> >> just in the last bit I have seen two emails come through with no >> subject judging by the web site from these email addresses rob and >> can't place what the other name is but it looks like the email >> accounts have been hacked. >> >> I would reckommend you change your password in your email account. >> I am not sure if it is possible that this group has been hacked or >> not as well or if it is just these emails that come though of these >> individual's who were hacked. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zerone1683%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 21:16:52 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:16:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] email problems people are having In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00b501cd9c2c$40694fb0$c13bef10$@gmail.com> Hi Andrew, It's probably their email accounts. Just don't click on the links. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Edgcumbe Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 1:55 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] email problems people are having Hi all just in the last bit I have seen two emails come through with no subject judging by the web site from these email addresses rob and can't place what the other name is but it looks like the email accounts have been hacked. I would reckommend you change your password in your email account. I am not sure if it is possible that this group has been hacked or not as well or if it is just these emails that come though of these individual's who were hacked. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 23:13:54 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:13:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1348677640.32951.YahooMailNeo@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1348677640.32951.YahooMailNeo@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c101cd9c3c$9b157d20$d1407760$@gmail.com> Hi Rob, It appears that your email account has been hacked. You may want to check into this. I second the suggestion which another lister has made to you; that is, to change the password on your email account. I just wanted to let you know this was going on. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Lambert Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:41 PM To: lindseyk89 at yahoo.com; crazy-shawty at ukfreeisp.co.uk; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; punkluva228 at yahoo.com; maya2005 at sky.ru Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) http://www.dublemproduction.com/wp-content/plugins/google.html?uq=gsy.jdg&hi moj=cym.gdf&snbebf=yyha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 23:34:37 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:34:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility Message-ID: Hi all, I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with JAWS. Thanks! Arielle From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Sep 26 23:14:31 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:14:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1348676663.67187.YahooMailNeo@web132405.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1348676663.67187.YahooMailNeo@web132405.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c201cd9c3c$b2285190$1678f4b0$@gmail.com> Scott, looks like yours has been hacked as well. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Todd Orlowski Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:24 PM To: cory.j.mcmahon at gmail.com; mgraham4 at missouriwestern.edu; jacob.sexton at att.net; dreami.eyes at gmail.com; kupremie at kc.rr.com; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; torlowski at missouriwestern.edu Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) http://transmodart.com/wp-content/plugins/akismet/google.html?to=jb.gio&wm=g ng.gdf&mbf=wcbp _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 00:48:12 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:48:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] test In-Reply-To: <4FB742D7-AA7F-4520-80B5-F57F5566AEE0@gmail.com> References: <4FB742D7-AA7F-4520-80B5-F57F5566AEE0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d801cd9c49$c7a38320$56ea8960$@gmail.com> Hi Olga, The message came through, and you are successfully subscribed. Welcome to the list!!! Chris Nusbaum -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of olga Petrovic Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:47 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] test Sent from my iPhone 4 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 01:25:33 2012 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:25:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I > try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary > information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. > There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to > select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click > those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use > the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of > entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have > others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who > have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm > missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with > JAWS. Thanks! > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 01:45:22 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:45:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let national know about this. Arielle On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: > I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my > tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound on > a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of us > have to call the number. Cindy > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use >> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of >> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >> JAWS. Thanks! >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 11:04:30 2012 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:04:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle and all, I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not open on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service left quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their company again. I guess other blind people either call or have someone else buy the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've seen. Mary On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: > If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let > national know about this. > Arielle > > On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my >> tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound >> on >> a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of >> us >> have to call the number. Cindy >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >>> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >>> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >>> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use >>> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of >>> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >>> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >>> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >>> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >>> JAWS. Thanks! >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory 2012 "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." -- Laurel Thatcher Ulrich From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Thu Sep 27 13:42:01 2012 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 08:42:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility References: Message-ID: <001501cd9cb5$e02f1cd0$a199b348@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, The same here. I've ridden Greyhound busses for years and found their service great. Now if they're Web site would live up to that same reputation where accessibility with screen readers is concerned it would be another way for blind Greyhound customers to buy tickets and manage their trips. The Megabus Web Site is far more usable than Greyhound. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I > try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary > information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. > There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to > select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click > those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use > the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of > entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have > others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who > have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm > missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with > JAWS. Thanks! > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From stevemax83 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 13:57:24 2012 From: stevemax83 at yahoo.com (Steven Max-Faults) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: <001501cd9cb5$e02f1cd0$a199b348@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <1348754244.83741.YahooMailClassic@web113801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello all,   I am one of those blind Jaws users who travels with Greyhound regularly, especially between Boston and NYC. Initially, I also experienced the inaccessible aspects of purchasing a ticket from their website, as described by others. I have, however, found a work around that has worked fine for me, though I do agree that the website should be made completely accessible!   >From the Greyhound homepage, I select the link called "Tickets & Travel Info," and then, from that page, the link called "Buy Tickets Online." The form on this page seems exactly like the one on the homepage, but is appreciably more accessible.   Pressing tab after entering information seems to help. For some cities, after typing it into the box, it is also necessary to go to top of page and select the city from a list that will appear there. The form does allow you to manually enter the date; pressing tab from the date box autofills the current date which you can edit as necessary. Although you cannot select a discount type (e.g. Student) from this form, the next page will allow you to do so.   I hope that wasn't too confusing! It took some getting used to, but, as I said, it now works fine for me. Once this step is completed, the remainder of the reservation process is pretty accessible. If you choose to print your ticket (rather than collecting it at the station), it will open as a PDF. If I use Firefox, I've been able to save the PDF to my computer after it is open for later printing or reference.   Incidentally, has anyone found the website for Bolt Bus or for JetBlue accessible?   Best, Steven SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Thu, 9/27/12, Peter Donahue wrote: From: Peter Donahue Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 9:42 AM Good morning everyone,     The same here. I've ridden Greyhound busses for years and found their service great. Now if they're Web site would live up to that same reputation where accessibility with screen readers is concerned it would be another way for blind Greyhound customers to buy tickets and manage their trips. The Megabus Web Site is far more usable than Greyhound. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I > try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary > information  and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. > There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to > select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click > those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use > the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead  of > entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have > others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who > have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm > missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with > JAWS. Thanks! > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 15:37:30 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:37:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I was told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I laughed At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. Sent from my iPad On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi Arielle and all, > I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my > ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not open > on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service left > quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their company > again. I guess other blind people either call or have someone else buy > the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've seen. > Mary > > On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let >> national know about this. >> Arielle >> >> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my >>> tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound >>> on >>> a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of >>> us >>> have to call the number. Cindy >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >>>> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >>>> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >>>> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use >>>> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of >>>> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >>>> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >>>> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >>>> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >>>> JAWS. Thanks! >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory 2012 > "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes > up her burdens and walks toward the future." > -- > Laurel Thatcher Ulrich > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 22:02:43 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <506111ea.a5b6ec0a.7345.fffff460@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <006501cd9dc4$fcf04cd0$f6d0e670$@gmail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . Thanks again. Becky Sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these aps out ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: > *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >seconds > *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >school, very handy in math and science classes > Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >access to Blackboard > Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >around > Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible > ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 >gestures. > Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the >President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and >what the president and his wife are up to > *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink Radio: >This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as well >as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows station >*Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a >grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and use >to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? Put >the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you >go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed >to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >paper coupons of any kind! > *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >sidewalks. > Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. This >really works! > *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. I'm >still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. > > Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I > have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones > mentioned above, which I also endorse. > > A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple > store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set > up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you > bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for > me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, > you'll be an expert at it. > > ~Jewel > > On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: color >>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>> >>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gloria G" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> hey all, >>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. I am >>> also >>> >>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. Does >>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>> aps I >>> >>> should get? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Thu Sep 27 22:12:25 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 17:12:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Message-ID: <5064cf6f.eaaaec0a.1503.ffffeb38@mx.google.com> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "becky sabo" wrote: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" References: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> Message-ID: Steven: Thanks for the work around. It really does work. Just think, every time you enter something, go up to the top of the page and select whatever option is available. For example, I typed Seattle as my departure city, and Seattle, WA or Seattle Amtrak WA appeared at the top. Similarly, I manually typed my departure date into the edit box, and then i clicked on the open calendar popup link. The month of October popped up at the top of the page and I was able to select my departure date, and I did the same for the return. Pressing space to select things and initiate the search definitely works instead of pressing enter if you are one of those people like me who tends to try enter first out of habit. Cindy On 9/27/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I was > told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I laughed > At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: > >> Hi Arielle and all, >> I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my >> ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not open >> on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service left >> quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their company >> again. I guess other blind people either call or have someone else buy >> the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've seen. >> Mary >> >> On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let >>> national know about this. >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my >>>> tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take >>>> Greyhound >>>> on >>>> a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all >>>> of >>>> us >>>> have to call the number. Cindy >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >>>>> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >>>>> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >>>>> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use >>>>> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of >>>>> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >>>>> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >>>>> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >>>>> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >>>>> JAWS. Thanks! >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory 2012 >> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes >> up her burdens and walks toward the future." >> -- >> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cynthia Bennett B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 00:21:58 2012 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:21:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> References: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <8D97F5E0-7E83-480F-B8DE-F4F7778166D4@gmail.com> An update! After bringing my problems to the director of the disability support services office, and Mary (who makes the tactile images) showed her the problem with the images, other images were found that, with Mary's hard work, are distinguishable as the cells they represent. We had a meeting; that is, my counsellor, the adaptive technology specialist, the aforementioned tactile image maker, my professor, and myself met. We discussed any and all issues around the lab practical this comiing Monday, including the cell identification part. It was decided that I would go to my professor's office hours with my tactile images so she could give an in-depth description of the cells: colour, shape, what'ss inside them, etc. We have done this, and now I can identify the cells based on the images and color. She did say I need to ask my lab assistant specific questions like "Is this cell purple?" rather than "What colour is this cell?" because he may not recognize a cell's color unless I give it like the first question, if that makes sense. He has never taken Biology, so it's all new to him, which is good in some respects in that he will do only what I tell him to and not quuestion, and bad in other respects, such as not being able to recognize a cell's parts. Anyway, I am feeling tons better about the upcoming lab practical. I feel I have as much access to the information as everyone else, thanks to the school's amazing disability support services office and a professor who is open-minded. Thank goodness for that! ~Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2012, at 8:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Jewel, > This sounds tough. Is your professor restricting the questions and discussion your lab assistant can tell you? > It seems to me that any visual info including shape, size, and color would be fine questions for your assistant because sighted people get this info by looking at it. This aids them in identifying the organisms. If they restrict your access, this sounds discriminatory. > > I'd first clarify what you can ask your assistant. Then explain why the tactile diagram is insufficient. Find an alternative. > Could you make a diagram with your assistant from things you bring like wiki sticks, hard candy, and string? > Another alternative is to do something in lou of the visual part as long as this isn't your major. > If it’s a major course, this issue would arise again and you couldn't get out of this part for many classes. > I'm thinking you could answer questions about cells. Your professor could name cells instead of showing you a visual image under the microscope. > Then you could describe the cells or something like that. This is anothe r fair way to demonstrate your knowledge it seems to me. > I know most federationists aren't big on alternative assignments or changing the work, but this seems more fair to me. I'm not into science. When I took general biology, however, my professor asked me questions on my exam instead of me looking at pictures. Other students looked at a picture and were asked to identify a certain part such as a cell part, a flower part, or muscles of the body. Mine were multiple choice questions as well, just without pictures. The question named the organism in the question. > It asked me about that subject in the question. So I didn't have to identify any organisms via pictures or a microscope. > > I also still had the same number of questions as other students; mine were just worded differently since I did not label pictures. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jewel > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class > > I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, > and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is > identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is > not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I > ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the > cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the > image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and > I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She > says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image > and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What > colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of > questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify > cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can > someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to > tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I > don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 00:47:53 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:47:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Look this over In-Reply-To: <1348766594.26442.YahooMailNeo@web112508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1348766594.26442.YahooMailNeo@web112508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015b01cd9d12$e5951fa0$b0bf5ee0$@gmail.com> Here is a very interesting article about fast-growing careers which are currently in high demand. This may be of particular interest to those of you who are currently in the job market, so if you're looking for a job, please click on this link and feel free to share it with anybody who you feel may be interested. Here it is: From: Bare Wood House [mailto:barewoodhouse at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:23 PM To: Chris Nusbaum Subject: Look this over Chris This is an article on Yahoo that I was reading. You might find it interesting. Let me know if it is not accessible for you. Wendy http://education.yahoo.net/articles/degrees_for_growing_careers.htm?kid=1LSB 1 From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 00:53:19 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 20:53:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class In-Reply-To: <8D97F5E0-7E83-480F-B8DE-F4F7778166D4@gmail.com> References: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> <8D97F5E0-7E83-480F-B8DE-F4F7778166D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <018601cd9d13$a7ad14d0$f7073e70$@gmail.com> Hi Jewel, Awesome! I hope the practical goes well for you! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class An update! After bringing my problems to the director of the disability support services office, and Mary (who makes the tactile images) showed her the problem with the images, other images were found that, with Mary's hard work, are distinguishable as the cells they represent. We had a meeting; that is, my counsellor, the adaptive technology specialist, the aforementioned tactile image maker, my professor, and myself met. We discussed any and all issues around the lab practical this comiing Monday, including the cell identification part. It was decided that I would go to my professor's office hours with my tactile images so she could give an in-depth description of the cells: colour, shape, what'ss inside them, etc. We have done this, and now I can identify the cells based on the images and color. She did say I need to ask my lab assistant specific questions like "Is this cell purple?" rather than "What colour is this cell?" because he may not recognize a cell's color unless I give it like the first question, if that makes sense. He has never taken Biology, so it's all new to him, which is good in some respects in that he will do only what I tell him to and not quuestion, and bad in other respects, such as not being able to recognize a cell's parts. Anyway, I am feeling tons better about the upcoming lab practical. I feel I have as much access to the information as everyone else, thanks to the school's amazing disability support services office and a professor who is open-minded. Thank goodness for that! ~Jewel Sent from my iPhone On Sep 22, 2012, at 8:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" wrote: > Jewel, > This sounds tough. Is your professor restricting the questions and discussion your lab assistant can tell you? > It seems to me that any visual info including shape, size, and color would be fine questions for your assistant because sighted people get this info by looking at it. This aids them in identifying the organisms. If they restrict your access, this sounds discriminatory. > > I'd first clarify what you can ask your assistant. Then explain why the tactile diagram is insufficient. Find an alternative. > Could you make a diagram with your assistant from things you bring like wiki sticks, hard candy, and string? > Another alternative is to do something in lou of the visual part as long as this isn't your major. > If it’s a major course, this issue would arise again and you couldn't get out of this part for many classes. > I'm thinking you could answer questions about cells. Your professor could name cells instead of showing you a visual image under the microscope. > Then you could describe the cells or something like that. This is anothe r fair way to demonstrate your knowledge it seems to me. > I know most federationists aren't big on alternative assignments or changing the work, but this seems more fair to me. I'm not into science. When I took general biology, however, my professor asked me questions on my exam instead of me looking at pictures. Other students looked at a picture and were asked to identify a certain part such as a cell part, a flower part, or muscles of the body. Mine were multiple choice questions as well, just without pictures. The question named the organism in the question. > It asked me about that subject in the question. So I didn't have to identify any organisms via pictures or a microscope. > > I also still had the same number of questions as other students; mine were just worded differently since I did not label pictures. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jewel > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class > > I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, > and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is > identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is > not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I > ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the > cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the > image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and > I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She > says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image > and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What > colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of > questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify > cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can > someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to > tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I > don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! > ~Jewel > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart > hlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 01:00:23 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:00:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <5064cf6f.eaaaec0a.1503.ffffeb38@mx.google.com> References: <5064cf6f.eaaaec0a.1503.ffffeb38@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <018e01cd9d14$a46a7780$ed3f6680$@gmail.com> Hi Sophie, Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the third gen and later. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "becky sabo" wrote: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" References: <6E21CFE6C1CD4E5B800D575AD4E32AF9@OwnerPC> <8D97F5E0-7E83-480F-B8DE-F4F7778166D4@gmail.com> <018601cd9d13$a7ad14d0$f7073e70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jewel, I'm glad you were able to come to a good resolution of what could have become a nasty situation. BTW, if you do decide to take another lab science course, and want a lab assistant who's more knowledgeable about the subject, you may want to recruit and hire your own lab assistant by advertising through science professors or through the campus employment system and saying you specifically want someone who has background in biology or whatever the class is. Your disabilities office should be willing to provide the funding to pay whomever you choose to hire, not just one of their own employees. I used to have lab assistants the DSS selected and hired, and it was OK, but I always felt a little uncomfortable about how little recourse I had if the lab assistant didn't do their job properly (like no-showing to labs etc.) since they directly reported to the DSS rather than to me. It's always better to have a direct employer-employee relationship with any readers or assistants you get, if possible. Best of luck, Arielle On 9/27/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Jewel, > > Awesome! I hope the practical goes well for you! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jewel > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class > > An update! After bringing my problems to the director of the disability > support services office, and Mary (who makes the tactile images) showed her > the problem with the images, other images were found that, with Mary's hard > work, are distinguishable as the cells they represent. We had a meeting; > that is, my counsellor, the adaptive technology specialist, the > aforementioned tactile image maker, my professor, and myself met. We > discussed any and all issues around the lab practical this comiing Monday, > including the cell identification part. It was decided that I would go to > my professor's office hours with my tactile images so she could give an > in-depth description of the cells: colour, shape, what'ss inside them, etc. > We have done this, and now I can identify the cells based on the images and > color. She did say I need to ask my lab assistant specific questions like > "Is this cell purple?" rather than "What colour is this cell?" because he > may not recognize a cell's color unless I give it like the first question, > if that makes sense. He has never taken Biology, so it's all new to him, > which is good in some respects in that he will do only what I tell him to > and not quuestion, and bad in other respects, such as not being able to > recognize a cell's parts. Anyway, I am feeling tons better about the > upcoming lab practical. I feel I have as much access to the information as > everyone else, thanks to the school's amazing disability support services > office and a professor who is open-minded. Thank goodness for that! > ~Jewel > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 22, 2012, at 8:54 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" > wrote: > >> Jewel, >> This sounds tough. Is your professor restricting the questions and >> discussion your lab assistant can tell you? >> It seems to me that any visual info including shape, size, and color would >> be fine questions for your assistant because sighted people get this info >> by looking at it. This aids them in identifying the organisms. If they >> restrict your access, this sounds discriminatory. >> >> I'd first clarify what you can ask your assistant. Then explain why the >> tactile diagram is insufficient. Find an alternative. >> Could you make a diagram with your assistant from things you bring like >> wiki sticks, hard candy, and string? >> Another alternative is to do something in lou of the visual part as long >> as this isn't your major. >> If it’s a major course, this issue would arise again and you couldn't get >> out of this part for many classes. >> I'm thinking you could answer questions about cells. Your professor could >> name cells instead of showing you a visual image under the microscope. >> Then you could describe the cells or something like that. This is anothe r >> fair way to demonstrate your knowledge it seems to me. >> I know most federationists aren't big on alternative assignments or >> changing the work, but this seems more fair to me. I'm not into science. >> When I took general biology, however, my professor asked me questions on >> my exam instead of me looking at pictures. Other students looked at a >> picture and were asked to identify a certain part such as a cell part, a >> flower part, or muscles of the body. Mine were multiple choice questions >> as well, just without pictures. The question named the organism in the >> question. >> It asked me about that subject in the question. So I didn't have to >> identify any organisms via pictures or a microscope. >> >> I also still had the same number of questions as other students; mine were >> just worded differently since I did not label pictures. >> >> HTH, >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Jewel >> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely frustrated with microbiology class >> >> I'm taking a class in microbiology that I need for my degree program, >> and one of the things I need to do for the midterm lab praticle is >> identify cells under the microscope. The thing is, my lab assistant is >> not allowed to give an in-depth description of the cells, nor can I >> ask him questions like "What colour is it?"...I have to identify the >> cell by looking at a tactile image that I can't understand because the >> image is not of good enough quality for a tactile image to work, and >> I'm having trouble getting my professor to understand my problem. She >> says I should be able to recognize the cell based on the tactile image >> and specific questions to my lab assistant, but I can't ask him "What >> colour is this blob here?" or anything. I am not sure what kind of >> questions I *can* ask him, nor am I sure how I am going to identify >> cells based on images that are just blobs and dots to me. Please, can >> someone give me any ideas or suggestions? This has me frustrated to >> tears, beause I'm afraid I'm going to fail the lab practicle because I >> don't have access to the same materials as everyone else. Help please! >> ~Jewel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart >> hlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 02:45:15 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:45:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Message-ID: <50650f61.0599ec0a.2673.101e@mx.google.com> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" References: <50650f61.0599ec0a.2673.101e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <87FB86E2-3803-4114-A3F1-08B546EFDBED@gmail.com> What the heck is an I touch? Sent from my iPad On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:00:23 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi Sophie, > > Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has at > least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the third gen and > later. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM > To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older generations are > often much cheaper than the newer ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "becky sabo" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s and it > keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the apple store for > them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked online and the new I pod > is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod to get that is not too > expensive. I need one asap so I can read my learning li and book share > books for school. Any help would be great and I need answer asap. You can > email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it > needs voice over on it . > Thanks again. > Becky Sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these aps > out > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: > *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in > seconds > *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery > fast, > though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the > flash > feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this > for > school, very handy in math and science classes > Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use > WiFi > or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what > you > type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: > Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you > full > access to Blackboard > Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using > your > phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great > tool > if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy > thing > around > Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible > ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score > is 75 > gestures. > Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect > musical > notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from > the > President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs > and > what the president and his wife are up to > *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has > reviews on > products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing > app > that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the > number. > All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink > Radio: > This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, > as well > as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows > station > *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a > grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and > use > to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new > recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? > Put > the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and > when you > go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have > mailed > to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing > with > paper coupons of any kind! > *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the > new > neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who > doesn't > have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, > bus > stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it > has > sidewalks. > Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for > something > similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. > This > really works! > *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. > I'm > still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are > lots > of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. > > Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps > I > have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the > ones > mentioned above, which I also endorse. > > A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the > Apple > store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how > to set > up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If > you > bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did > it for > me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no > time, > you'll be an expert at it. > > ~Jewel > > On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: > 1. Read2Go: bookshare app > 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: > color > identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to > the > Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) > > Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or > tips. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > hey all, > I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. > I am > also > > getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. > Does > anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any > neat > aps I > > should get? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40 > gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 > %40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 10:45:42 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 05:45:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Message-ID: <50657ffe.106d650a.25da.21e3@mx.google.com> In general terms (I don't own 1 so I can't get 2 specific) it's an iPod manufactured by Apple that has many of the same characteristics, including voiceover acessibility, as an iPhone. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavonya Gardner wrote: Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sophie Trist" References: <50657ffe.106d650a.25da.21e3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2337EAB1-DA6F-4642-A17B-DEE2E214E96D@gmail.com> Thank you Soffee. My brother and were wondering. I will look it up Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > In general terms (I don't own 1 so I can't get 2 specific) it's an iPod manufactured by Apple that has many of the same characteristics, including voiceover acessibility, as an iPhone. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lavonya Gardner To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:33:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > What the heck is an I touch? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > > Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:00:23 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi Sophie, > > Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has at > least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the third gen and > later. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM > To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older generations are > often much cheaper than the newer ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "becky sabo" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s and it > keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the apple store for > them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked online and the new I pod > is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod to get that is not too > expensive. I need one asap so I can read my learning li and book share > books for school. Any help would be great and I need answer asap. You can > email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it > needs voice over on it . > Thanks again. > Becky Sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these aps > out > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: > *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in > seconds > *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery > fast, > though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the > flash > feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this > for > school, very handy in math and science classes > Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use > WiFi > or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what > you > type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: > Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you > full > access to Blackboard > Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using > your > phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great > tool > if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy > thing > around > Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible > ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score > is 75 > gestures. > Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect > musical > notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from > the > President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs > and > what the president and his wife are up to > *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has > reviews on > products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing > app > that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the > number. > All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink > Radio: > This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, > as well > as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows > station > *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a > grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and > use > to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new > recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? > Put > the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and > when you > go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have > mailed > to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing > with > paper coupons of any kind! > *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the > new > neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who > doesn't > have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, > bus > stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it > has > sidewalks. > Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for > something > similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. > This > really works! > *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. > I'm > still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are > lots > of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. > > Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps > I > have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the > ones > mentioned above, which I also endorse. > > A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the > Apple > store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how > to set > up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If > you > bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did > it for > me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no > time, > you'll be an expert at it. > > ~Jewel > > On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: > 1. Read2Go: bookshare app > 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: > color > identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to > the > Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) > > Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or > tips. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > hey all, > I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. > I am > also > > getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. > Does > anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any > neat > aps I > > should get? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40 > gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 > %40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 > %40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 17:13:02 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:13:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm glad there's a way to work around the difficult access; I've been kind of frustrated with greyhound because of this. (I still think I'll take amtrak whenever I can...I like the train) I'm sure most of us on this list could probably pull off the screen reader gymanstics needed to make this work (I daresay it's not all that complicated compared to what I used to do on the full facebook site) but I know lots of blind folks who would probably be frustrated to no end by it. I wish there were an easier way. On 9/27/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > Steven: > > Thanks for the work around. It really does work. Just think, every > time you enter something, go up to the top of the page and select > whatever option is available. For example, I typed Seattle as my > departure city, and Seattle, WA or Seattle Amtrak WA appeared at the > top. Similarly, I manually typed my departure date into the edit box, > and then i clicked on the open calendar popup link. The month of > October popped up at the top of the page and I was able to select my > departure date, and I did the same for the return. Pressing space to > select things and initiate the search definitely works instead of > pressing enter if you are one of those people like me who tends to try > enter first out of habit. > > Cindy > > On 9/27/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I was >> told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I laughed >> At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> >>> Hi Arielle and all, >>> I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my >>> ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not open >>> on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service left >>> quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their company >>> again. I guess other blind people either call or have someone else buy >>> the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've seen. >>> Mary >>> >>> On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let >>>> national know about this. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>>>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my >>>>> tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take >>>>> Greyhound >>>>> on >>>>> a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all >>>>> of >>>>> us >>>>> have to call the number. Cindy >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >>>>>> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >>>>>> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>>>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >>>>>> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to >>>>>> use >>>>>> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead >>>>>> of >>>>>> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >>>>>> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >>>>>> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >>>>>> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >>>>>> JAWS. Thanks! >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> Emory 2012 >>> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who takes >>> up her burdens and walks toward the future." >>> -- >>> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 17:31:21 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:31:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <2337EAB1-DA6F-4642-A17B-DEE2E214E96D@gmail.com> References: <50657ffe.106d650a.25da.21e3@mx.google.com> <2337EAB1-DA6F-4642-A17B-DEE2E214E96D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, all, I'll add a few of my favorite apps that haven't been mentioned yet. People have mostly covered the ones I like, but there are a couple worth mentioning that, at least periphorally if nothing else, can be used educationally. The first is audible. If you have an audibe.com membership, this lets you listen to any book from the audible store...you can buy them from itunes and listen in the music app, but it's quite a bit more expensive that way. I've done this for some school books before, as your audible membership gives ou at least one "credit" to download a book each month. There's also another audio recorder called voxie I like. You can choose the quality of your recording (higher equal more memory), wirelessly transfer recordings to your computer, put your recordings in different categorized folders for organization and name them anything you want. (the last should be obvious, but if you're coming from a victor stream and it's automatic note numbering, you'll probably like it.) Also look up all the apps made by choice of games and hosted games. If that class lecture is just too boring and you want something exciting to occupy yourself with, these text-based games, similar to the choose-your-own adventure games from before our time might just do the trick. Also in the games arena check out king of dragon pass and I samurai. Great time wasters, especially if you're trying to distract yourself from doing something productive. Let's see...back to productivity-enhancing apps. Check out "numbers" made by apple. It's a spreadsheet app they made for IOS which seems to be accessible but confusing. I've not tried it with a bluetooth keyboard, that might make it more bearable. You also have looktell recognizer. That's supposd to be an answer to things like the pen friend and braille labelers...take a picture of an object, record a label, then any time you show your phone camera that object, provided you're in the recognizer app, it should play back the label you recorded. I've not gotten around to testing it yet but I've heard it's pretty cool. The biggest complaint about it seems to be the fact that you might need a sighted person to help you identify the object originally (color/print label/whatever) but that seems to be a minor issue to me. Anyways enjoy your new toy! Best, Kirt On 9/28/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Thank you Soffee. My brother and were wondering. I will look it up > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> In general terms (I don't own 1 so I can't get 2 specific) it's an iPod >> manufactured by Apple that has many of the same characteristics, including >> voiceover acessibility, as an iPhone. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:33:51 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> What the heck is an I touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:00:23 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has at >> least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the third gen >> and >> later. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older generations >> are >> often much cheaper than the newer ones. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "becky sabo" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi all, >> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s and >> it >> keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the apple store >> for >> them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked online and the new I >> pod >> is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod to get that is not too >> expensive. I need one asap so I can read my learning li and book share >> books for school. Any help would be great and I need answer asap. You >> can >> email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it >> needs voice over on it . >> Thanks again. >> Becky Sabo >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these >> aps >> out >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >> seconds >> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery >> fast, >> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the >> flash >> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this >> for >> school, very handy in math and science classes >> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use >> WiFi >> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what >> you >> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you >> full >> access to Blackboard >> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using >> your >> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >> tool >> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >> thing >> around >> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score >> is 75 >> gestures. >> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >> musical >> notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from >> the >> President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs >> and >> what the president and his wife are up to >> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has >> reviews on >> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing >> app >> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the >> number. >> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >> Radio: >> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, >> as well >> as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >> station >> *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to a >> grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and >> use >> to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >> recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >> Put >> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and >> when you >> go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >> mailed >> to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing >> with >> paper coupons of any kind! >> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the >> new >> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who >> doesn't >> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, >> bus >> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it >> has >> sidewalks. >> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for >> something >> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >> This >> really works! >> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >> I'm >> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are >> lots >> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >> >> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps >> I >> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the >> ones >> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >> >> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the >> Apple >> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how >> to set >> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If >> you >> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did >> it for >> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >> time, >> you'll be an expert at it. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >> color >> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to >> the >> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >> >> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or >> tips. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> hey all, >> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >> I am >> also >> >> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >> Does >> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any >> neat >> aps I >> >> should get? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >> %40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jj at bestmidi.com Fri Sep 28 20:02:54 2012 From: jj at bestmidi.com (Jason Meddaugh) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility References: Message-ID: <1139DD7A200B4C949AB41E1AAC86F6E8@jage> The website is accessible with NVDA, though I believe there may be some issues with other screen readers. The problem seems to be a box that pops up after submitting your departure and arrival cities. This brings back the debate of where the company's responsibility ends and the screen readers' begins. It does appear that the latest version of the site is following documented design techniques, but many screen readers have not yet implemented these features. I'm not saying the Greyhound website is perfect, but the fault may not all be on their end, as much as I want to blame them for this. I recommend keeping NVDA installed as a backup screen reader, as it does seem to handle some websites better than the others. Then you can bring up NVDA, get around the problem website, and then return to your normal screen reader. Best Regards, Jason Meddaugh A T Guys Your Assistive Technology Experts (269) 216-4798 http://www.ATGuys.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility > If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should let > national know about this. > Arielle > > On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to buy my >> tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who take Greyhound >> on >> a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am missing something or if all of >> us >> have to call the number. Cindy >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but when I >>> try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the necessary >>> information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I click >>> those links either. I am wondering if the website is forcing me to use >>> the pop-up calendar and clock to select my dates and times instead of >>> entering them manually, and if the pop-ups are not accessible. Have >>> others had success using the Greyhound site? I know blind people who >>> have used Greyhound before, so am wondering if there's something I'm >>> missing or if their site changed and is no longer accessible with >>> JAWS. Thanks! >>> Arielle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 22:09:20 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:09:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <50657ffe.106d650a.25da.21e3@mx.google.com> <2337EAB1-DA6F-4642-A17B-DEE2E214E96D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01bd01cd9dc5$f10d20e0$d32762a0$@gmail.com> Hi Kirt, Cool! I didn't know LookTell had a recognizer app! Kind of reminds me of the Pen Friend. I'll look into that! Speaking of games, Hanging with Friends, a Hangman game for iOS, is very accessible. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone Hi, all, I'll add a few of my favorite apps that haven't been mentioned yet. People have mostly covered the ones I like, but there are a couple worth mentioning that, at least periphorally if nothing else, can be used educationally. The first is audible. If you have an audibe.com membership, this lets you listen to any book from the audible store...you can buy them from itunes and listen in the music app, but it's quite a bit more expensive that way. I've done this for some school books before, as your audible membership gives ou at least one "credit" to download a book each month. There's also another audio recorder called voxie I like. You can choose the quality of your recording (higher equal more memory), wirelessly transfer recordings to your computer, put your recordings in different categorized folders for organization and name them anything you want. (the last should be obvious, but if you're coming from a victor stream and it's automatic note numbering, you'll probably like it.) Also look up all the apps made by choice of games and hosted games. If that class lecture is just too boring and you want something exciting to occupy yourself with, these text-based games, similar to the choose-your-own adventure games from before our time might just do the trick. Also in the games arena check out king of dragon pass and I samurai. Great time wasters, especially if you're trying to distract yourself from doing something productive. Let's see...back to productivity-enhancing apps. Check out "numbers" made by apple. It's a spreadsheet app they made for IOS which seems to be accessible but confusing. I've not tried it with a bluetooth keyboard, that might make it more bearable. You also have looktell recognizer. That's supposd to be an answer to things like the pen friend and braille labelers...take a picture of an object, record a label, then any time you show your phone camera that object, provided you're in the recognizer app, it should play back the label you recorded. I've not gotten around to testing it yet but I've heard it's pretty cool. The biggest complaint about it seems to be the fact that you might need a sighted person to help you identify the object originally (color/print label/whatever) but that seems to be a minor issue to me. Anyways enjoy your new toy! Best, Kirt On 9/28/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > Thank you Soffee. My brother and were wondering. I will look it up > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> In general terms (I don't own 1 so I can't get 2 specific) it's an >> iPod manufactured by Apple that has many of the same characteristics, >> including voiceover acessibility, as an iPhone. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Lavonya Gardner > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> What the heck is an I touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 21:00:23 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >> third gen and later. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "becky sabo" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi all, >> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice >> over on it . >> Thanks again. >> Becky Sabo >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >> these aps out >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >> seconds >> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >> school, very handy in math and science classes >> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >> access to Blackboard >> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >> thing around >> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >> 75 gestures. >> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the >> number. >> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >> Radio: >> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >> Put >> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >> sidewalks. >> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >> This >> really works! >> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >> I'm >> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >> >> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >> >> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >> time, you'll be an expert at it. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >> color >> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to >> the >> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >> >> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or >> tips. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> hey all, >> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >> I am >> also >> >> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >> Does >> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any >> neat >> aps I >> >> should get? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >> %40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416 >> %40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.co m > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.c om > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 22:11:35 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:11:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01be01cd9dc6$3a74f000$af5ed000$@gmail.com> More power to you on the regular Facebook site! I have no idea how you could make that thing work with JAWS at all! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility I'm glad there's a way to work around the difficult access; I've been kind of frustrated with greyhound because of this. (I still think I'll take amtrak whenever I can...I like the train) I'm sure most of us on this list could probably pull off the screen reader gymanstics needed to make this work (I daresay it's not all that complicated compared to what I used to do on the full facebook site) but I know lots of blind folks who would probably be frustrated to no end by it. I wish there were an easier way. On 9/27/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: > Steven: > > Thanks for the work around. It really does work. Just think, every > time you enter something, go up to the top of the page and select > whatever option is available. For example, I typed Seattle as my > departure city, and Seattle, WA or Seattle Amtrak WA appeared at the > top. Similarly, I manually typed my departure date into the edit box, > and then i clicked on the open calendar popup link. The month of > October popped up at the top of the page and I was able to select my > departure date, and I did the same for the return. Pressing space to > select things and initiate the search definitely works instead of > pressing enter if you are one of those people like me who tends to try > enter first out of habit. > > Cindy > > On 9/27/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >> I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I >> was told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I >> laughed At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> >>> Hi Arielle and all, >>> I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my >>> ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not >>> open on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service >>> left quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their >>> company again. I guess other blind people either call or have >>> someone else buy the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've seen. >>> Mary >>> >>> On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should >>>> let national know about this. >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>>>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to >>>>> buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who >>>>> take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am >>>>> missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but >>>>>> when I try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the >>>>>> necessary information and click the "Search Schedules" link, nothing happens. >>>>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I >>>>>> click those links either. I am wondering if the website is >>>>>> forcing me to use the pop-up calendar and clock to select my >>>>>> dates and times instead of entering them manually, and if the >>>>>> pop-ups are not accessible. Have others had success using the >>>>>> Greyhound site? I know blind people who have used Greyhound >>>>>> before, so am wondering if there's something I'm missing or if >>>>>> their site changed and is no longer accessible with JAWS. Thanks! >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gma >>>>>> il.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> Emory 2012 >>> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who >>> takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." >>> -- >>> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40 >>> gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >> om >> > > > -- > Cynthia Bennett > B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g > mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 22:42:26 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:42:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone Message-ID: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> Hi LaVonya, The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS 6. Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone without the phone part. If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. Hope this helps, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone What the heck is an I touch? Sent from my iPad On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nusbaum" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi Sophie, > > Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has > at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the > third gen and later. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Sophie Trist > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM > To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older > generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "becky sabo" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > Hi all, > I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s > and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the > apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked > online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod > to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my > learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great > and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com > the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . > Thanks again. > Becky Sabo > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these > aps out > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: > *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in > seconds > *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, > though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash > feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for > school, very handy in math and science classes > Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi > or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you > type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: > Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full > access to Blackboard > Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your > phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool > if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing > around > Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible > ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 > gestures. > Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical > notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the > President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and > what the president and his wife are up to > *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on > products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app > that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. > All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink > Radio: > This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as > well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows > station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to > a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and > use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new > recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? > Put > the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you > go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed > to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with > paper coupons of any kind! > *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new > neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't > have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus > stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has > sidewalks. > Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something > similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. > This > really works! > *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. > I'm > still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots > of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. > > Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I > have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones > mentioned above, which I also endorse. > > A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple > store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set > up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you > bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for > me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, > you'll be an expert at it. > > ~Jewel > > On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: > thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sophie Trist" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > > Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: > 1. Read2Go: bookshare app > 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: > color > identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the > Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) > > Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gloria G" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > hey all, > I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. > I am > also > > getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. > Does > anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat > aps I > > should get? Thanks > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40 > gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 > %40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves > %40gm > ail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 > gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau > m%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade > r%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 22:51:05 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:51:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: <01be01cd9dc6$3a74f000$af5ed000$@gmail.com> References: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> <01be01cd9dc6$3a74f000$af5ed000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I wonder if it would be worth asking someone at national to run some kind of Section 508 compliance check on the Greyhound website, since its accessibility seems to be ambiguous. Does anyone know who the best person would be to talk with about this? If we're going to go after airlines about accessibility, and Greyhound is not fully accessible, we should go after them as well, especially since Greyhound may be the only viable means of intercity transportation for some of us. It's ironic, too, that they have a whole page on their website dedicated to explaining what assistance they provide for people with mobility impairments. Arielle On 9/28/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > More power to you on the regular Facebook site! I have no idea how you > could > make that thing work with JAWS at all! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility > > I'm glad there's a way to work around the difficult access; I've been kind > of frustrated with greyhound because of this. (I still think I'll take > amtrak whenever I can...I like the train) I'm sure most of us on this list > could probably pull off the screen reader gymanstics needed to make this > work (I daresay it's not all that complicated compared to what I used to do > on the full facebook site) but I know lots of blind folks who would > probably > be frustrated to no end by it. > I wish there were an easier way. > > On 9/27/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> Steven: >> >> Thanks for the work around. It really does work. Just think, every >> time you enter something, go up to the top of the page and select >> whatever option is available. For example, I typed Seattle as my >> departure city, and Seattle, WA or Seattle Amtrak WA appeared at the >> top. Similarly, I manually typed my departure date into the edit box, >> and then i clicked on the open calendar popup link. The month of >> October popped up at the top of the page and I was able to select my >> departure date, and I did the same for the return. Pressing space to >> select things and initiate the search definitely works instead of >> pressing enter if you are one of those people like me who tends to try >> enter first out of habit. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 9/27/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >>> I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I >>> was told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I >>> laughed At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arielle and all, >>>> I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my >>>> ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not >>>> open on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service >>>> left quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their >>>> company again. I guess other blind people either call or have >>>> someone else buy the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've > seen. >>>> Mary >>>> >>>> On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should >>>>> let national know about this. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>>>>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to >>>>>> buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who >>>>>> take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am >>>>>> missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but >>>>>>> when I try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the >>>>>>> necessary information and click the "Search Schedules" link, >>>>>>> nothing > happens. >>>>>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>>>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I >>>>>>> click those links either. I am wondering if the website is >>>>>>> forcing me to use the pop-up calendar and clock to select my >>>>>>> dates and times instead of entering them manually, and if the >>>>>>> pop-ups are not accessible. Have others had success using the >>>>>>> Greyhound site? I know blind people who have used Greyhound >>>>>>> before, so am wondering if there's something I'm missing or if >>>>>>> their site changed and is no longer accessible with JAWS. Thanks! >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gma >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mary Fernandez >>>> Emory 2012 >>>> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who >>>> takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." >>>> -- >>>> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Sep 28 23:04:11 2012 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 17:04:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility In-Reply-To: <01be01cd9dc6$3a74f000$af5ed000$@gmail.com> References: <5BBDB83F-C2D8-4C30-B1DF-89130BA28E01@gmail.com> <01be01cd9dc6$3a74f000$af5ed000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Chris, It didn't used to be quite as bad as it is now. There's a good reason I switched over to facebook mobile. J.J. (sounds cooler than "Jason" to me), I know different screen readers respond differently to different web sites, but I'm a little bit confused about jaws "not being up to date" with the latest design practices while something like NVDA, not made for profit, would be more updated. Am I missing something? I'd very much like you to elaborate on this, off-list if you think that's a more appropriate place for it. Best, Kirt On 9/28/12, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > More power to you on the regular Facebook site! I have no idea how you > could > make that thing work with JAWS at all! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 1:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greyhound Website Accessibility > > I'm glad there's a way to work around the difficult access; I've been kind > of frustrated with greyhound because of this. (I still think I'll take > amtrak whenever I can...I like the train) I'm sure most of us on this list > could probably pull off the screen reader gymanstics needed to make this > work (I daresay it's not all that complicated compared to what I used to do > on the full facebook site) but I know lots of blind folks who would > probably > be frustrated to no end by it. > I wish there were an easier way. > > On 9/27/12, Cynthia Bennett wrote: >> Steven: >> >> Thanks for the work around. It really does work. Just think, every >> time you enter something, go up to the top of the page and select >> whatever option is available. For example, I typed Seattle as my >> departure city, and Seattle, WA or Seattle Amtrak WA appeared at the >> top. Similarly, I manually typed my departure date into the edit box, >> and then i clicked on the open calendar popup link. The month of >> October popped up at the top of the page and I was able to select my >> departure date, and I did the same for the return. Pressing space to >> select things and initiate the search definitely works instead of >> pressing enter if you are one of those people like me who tends to try >> enter first out of habit. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 9/27/12, Lavonya Gardner wrote: >>> I do not greyhound servos much. I wen to a convention one year and I >>> was told that I was incapable of getting food because I am blind. I >>> laughed At the tantrum being thrown as I proved them wrong. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:04, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Arielle and all, >>>> I took Greyhound once last summer, and I also had to call to get my >>>> ticket bought. Then, I realized that the PDF they sent would not >>>> open on any computer, and called them back. Their customer service >>>> left quite a lot to be desired, and since I have never used their >>>> company again. I guess other blind people either call or have >>>> someone else buy the ticket. Their website is one of the worst I've > seen. >>>> Mary >>>> >>>> On 9/26/12, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> If no one can access the site with screen readers then we should >>>>> let national know about this. >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 9/26/12, Cindy wrote: >>>>>> I have the same problem as you. I had to call the 800 number to >>>>>> buy my tickets. But like you, I also know other blind people who >>>>>> take Greyhound on a regular basis. So I'm wondering if I am >>>>>> missing something or if all of us have to call the number. Cindy >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> I'm trying to look at the Greyhound bus schedules online, but >>>>>>> when I try to use their trip planner, when I enter all the >>>>>>> necessary information and click the "Search Schedules" link, >>>>>>> nothing > happens. >>>>>>> There is also an option to bring up a pop-up calendar or clock to >>>>>>> select my travel dates and times, but nothing happens when I >>>>>>> click those links either. I am wondering if the website is >>>>>>> forcing me to use the pop-up calendar and clock to select my >>>>>>> dates and times instead of entering them manually, and if the >>>>>>> pop-ups are not accessible. Have others had success using the >>>>>>> Greyhound site? I know blind people who have used Greyhound >>>>>>> before, so am wondering if there's something I'm missing or if >>>>>>> their site changed and is no longer accessible with JAWS. Thanks! >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gma >>>>>>> il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gm >>>>>> ail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mary Fernandez >>>> Emory 2012 >>>> "A pioneer is not someone who makes her own soap. She is one who >>>> takes up her burdens and walks toward the future." >>>> -- >>>> Laurel Thatcher Ulrich >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40 >>>> gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cynthia Bennett >> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g >> mail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 00:19:43 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:19:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi LaVonya, > > The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version of the > iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older iPods (the iPod > Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating system, which is the > same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of the > same characteristics as the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on the > same operating system. Most if not all of the same apps which are supported > on the iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between the > iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and > send text messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) > something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect to > the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a wifi > connection. There are some other minor differences in the two devices, such > as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. I > could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the > iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS 6. > Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone without > the phone part. > > If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > What the heck is an I touch? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has >> at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >> third gen and later. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "becky sabo" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi all, >> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod >> to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my >> learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great >> and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com >> the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . >> Thanks again. >> Becky Sabo >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these >> aps out >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >> seconds >> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >> school, very handy in math and science classes >> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >> access to Blackboard >> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >> around >> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 >> gestures. >> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >> notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the >> President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and >> what the president and his wife are up to >> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >> Radio: >> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to >> a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and >> use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >> recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >> Put >> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you >> go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed >> to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >> paper coupons of any kind! >> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >> sidewalks. >> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >> This >> really works! >> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >> I'm >> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >> >> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >> >> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set >> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for >> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, >> you'll be an expert at it. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >> color >> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >> >> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> hey all, >> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >> I am >> also >> >> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >> Does >> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >> aps I >> >> should get? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >> %40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 01:17:58 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 21:17:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] MusicDock: an accessible alternative to the Sirius XM app for iOS (fun) Message-ID: <001101cd9de0$43b51b30$cb1f5190$@gmail.com> Hi everyone, Those of us who are on the Accessible iOS list and the NFB NABS list have recently been talking about apps that we find to be especially useful, fun, interesting and (most importantly) accessible. So, I thought I would add to the discussion by describing one of my favorite iOS apps, which I think is largely not known in the community of blind iOS users. As some of you know, I have been a subscriber to Sirius XM Satelite Radio for about 3 years now, and have always wanted a way to listen to my favorite channels when I'm away from home and my Sirius receiver. Although I still haven't found an accessible way to do this on the PC, I have found a way to do it on my iPod Touch! The app is called MusicDock, and it is an accessible alternative to the Sirius XM app for iOS, which (at least in the US) is inaccessible with VoiceOver. The app can be downloaded for free in the app store and is very easy to set up. Once you have downloaded and installed the app, a log-in screen will appear the first time you open the app. On this screen, you are required to type in the username and password for your Sirius XM account. Please note here that you must have a current Sirius XM subscription with Internet radio enabled in order for MusicDock to work. Otherwise, you can't access the streams of the channels and MusicDock will not let you log into and use it. Once you have entered your Sirius XM username and password, a one-finger flick right will bring you to a login button. Double tap on this button and (assuming your username and password are valid) you will be logged into the app and can now listen to all Sirius XM channels on your iOS device. It is also very easy to find and listen to a channel using MusicDock. When you first log into the app, if you scroll down the screen you will hear a list of categories; pop, rock, country, news/talk, sports, etc. These are the categories that Sirius XM channels are grouped into. Double tapping on one of these categories will bring up a list of channels that are in that category. Scroll down the screen by either touching or flicking to the right to find the channel you want to listen to, then double tap on the name of the channel to tell MusicDock to load the stream. Within seconds, the stream will load and you will hear what is on the channel you selectet. For those of you who use the TuneIn Radio app to listen to terrestrial (local) radio stations, finding a channel with MusicDock is very similar to finding a station on TuneIn. If you don't want to list your channels by category, there are other options as well. Like a lot of iOS apps, MusicDock has 5 tabs at the bottom of the screen where you can change what you are viewing or which part of the app you are in. Here are the 5 tabs in order from left to right, with descriptions of what each one does in parentheses: categories tab (lists channels by category; double tapping on a category will bring up a list of channels,) channels tab (brings up a list of all the channels; double tap on the name of a channel to listen to it,) favorites tab (shows your favorites, or presets; double tap as always on a channel to listen to it,) play tab (shows channels you have recently played,) and settings tab (shows your settings for MusicDock; you can change these if you'd like, but I have mine at the defaults and it's working very well for me.) Below the play tab, there is a button that VoiceOver will read as "tab bar play (or stop if you are currently listening to a channel) button. Double tapping on this button will play or pause the selected channel. A two-finger double tap will also work for this. I mentioned the favorites tab earlier. Another nice feature of MusicDock is the "favorites" feature, which allows you to put all the channels you listen to the most in one easy-to-get-to list, like setting presets on a radio. To add a channel to your favorites, scroll down the screen while you are listening to the channel you want to add until you come to what VoiceOver will read as the "favorite off" button. If you double tap on this button, the button label will change and VoiceOver will say "favorite selected button." Once you have done this, all you have to do to access a channel you've added to your favorites is to double tap on the favorites tab at the bottom of the screen, scroll until you find the channel you want, and double tap to listen to it. I hope this description and tutorial help some of you who might be interested. MusicDock is certainly one of my favorite apps and one that I use regularly. If you have any questions about this app, please let me know. I hope you enjoy MusicDock if you choose to download it. Happy listening! Chris Nusbaum From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 01:18:27 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 21:18:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com> LOL! That's OK! Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > Hi LaVonya, > > The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version > of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older > iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating > system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, > the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which > is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not > all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on > the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the > iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text > messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) > something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect > to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a > wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two > devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) > better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS 6. > Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone > without the phone part. > > If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. > > Hope this helps, > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone > > What the heck is an I touch? > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: > >> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Nusbaum" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi Sophie, >> >> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >> third gen and later. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "becky sabo" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> Hi all, >> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . >> Thanks again. >> Becky Sabo >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >> these aps out >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >> seconds >> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >> school, very handy in math and science classes >> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >> access to Blackboard >> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >> thing around >> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >> 75 gestures. >> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >> Radio: >> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >> Put >> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >> sidewalks. >> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >> This >> really works! >> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >> I'm >> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >> >> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >> >> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >> time, you'll be an expert at it. >> >> ~Jewel >> >> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >> thanks >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sophie Trist" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> >> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >> color >> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >> >> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gloria G" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> hey all, >> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >> I am >> also >> >> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >> Does >> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >> aps I >> >> should get? Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >> %40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >> %40gm >> ail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >> gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >> m%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >> r%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >> m >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g > mail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm > ail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From member at linkedin.com Sat Sep 29 01:42:06 2012 From: member at linkedin.com (jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 01:42:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <8930122.2246998.1348882926124.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2309.prod> LinkedIn ------------ jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Eric, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - jeff Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o22exx-5c/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I371121273_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYPdP8Ncz4NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1Bg0JCadTC2ls1 View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o22exx-5c/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/85813888_I371121273_11/?hs=false&tok=0wQyvfRiPC2ls1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o22exx-5c/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2ZU3O2JjvC2ls1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 02:00:18 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:00:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> <001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> I d k what I was thinking. Laugh out loud Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 21:18, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > LOL! That's OK! > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Lavonya Gardner > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone > > I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> Hi LaVonya, >> >> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version >> of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older >> iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating >> system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, >> the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which >> is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not >> all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on >> the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the >> iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text >> messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect >> to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a >> wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two >> devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) >> better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone > has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now > have Siri in iOS 6. >> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >> without the phone part. >> >> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> What the heck is an I touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi Sophie, >>> >>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >>> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>> third gen and later. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "becky sabo" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >>> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >>> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >>> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >>> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over > on it . >>> Thanks again. >>> Becky Sabo >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >>> these aps out >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>> seconds >>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>> access to Blackboard >>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >>> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >>> thing around >>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >>> 75 gestures. >>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >>> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >>> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >>> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>> Radio: >>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >>> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >>> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >>> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>> Put >>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >>> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >>> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >>> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>> sidewalks. >>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>> This >>> really works! >>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>> I'm >>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>> >>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>> >>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >>> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >>> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >>> time, you'll be an expert at it. >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>> thanks >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>> color >>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>> >>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gloria G" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> hey all, >>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>> I am >>> also >>> >>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>> Does >>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>> aps I >>> >>> should get? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>> %40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>> m >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >> mail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >> ail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 02:20:42 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:20:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> <001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com> <39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris Ny name is Becky Sabo. I have a I phone. I would like to know more about the I pod. If you could email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com Thanks Becky Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I d k what I was thinking. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 21:18, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> LOL! That's OK! >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone >> >> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: >> >>> Hi LaVonya, >>> >>> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version >>> of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older >>> iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating >>> system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, >>> the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which >>> is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not >>> all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on >>> the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the >>> iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text >>> messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >>> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect >>> to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a >>> wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two >>> devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) >>> better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone >> has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now >> have Siri in iOS 6. >>> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >>> without the phone part. >>> >>> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> What the heck is an I touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi Sophie, >>>> >>>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >>>> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>>> third gen and later. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "becky sabo" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >>>> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >>>> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >>>> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >>>> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over >> on it . >>>> Thanks again. >>>> Becky Sabo >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >>>> these aps out >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>>> seconds >>>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>>> access to Blackboard >>>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >>>> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >>>> thing around >>>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >>>> 75 gestures. >>>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >>>> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >>>> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >>>> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >>>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>>> Radio: >>>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >>>> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >>>> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >>>> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>>> Put >>>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >>>> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >>>> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >>>> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >>>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>>> sidewalks. >>>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>>> This >>>> really works! >>>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>>> I'm >>>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>>> >>>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>>> >>>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >>>> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >>>> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >>>> time, you'll be an expert at it. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>>> color >>>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>> >>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gloria G" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> hey all, >>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>>> I am >>>> also >>>> >>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>>> Does >>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>>> aps I >>>> >>>> should get? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>>> %40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>>> m >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 02:28:49 2012 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:28:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> Message-ID: <027364C7-D1DC-4244-9ED6-C990B0E5EC63@gmail.com> Hi How much the touch cost an get more info. Becky Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: > >> Hi LaVonya, >> >> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version of the >> iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older iPods (the iPod >> Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating system, which is the >> same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of the >> same characteristics as the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on the >> same operating system. Most if not all of the same apps which are supported >> on the iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between the >> iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and >> send text messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect to >> the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a wifi >> connection. There are some other minor differences in the two devices, such >> as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. I >> could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the >> iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS 6. >> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone without >> the phone part. >> >> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> What the heck is an I touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi Sophie, >>> >>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has >>> at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>> third gen and later. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "becky sabo" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod >>> to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my >>> learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great >>> and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com >>> the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . >>> Thanks again. >>> Becky Sabo >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these >>> aps out >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>> seconds >>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>> access to Blackboard >>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >>> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >>> around >>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 >>> gestures. >>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >>> notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the >>> President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and >>> what the president and his wife are up to >>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>> Radio: >>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to >>> a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and >>> use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >>> recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>> Put >>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you >>> go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed >>> to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >>> paper coupons of any kind! >>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>> sidewalks. >>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>> This >>> really works! >>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>> I'm >>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>> >>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>> >>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set >>> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for >>> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, >>> you'll be an expert at it. >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>> thanks >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>> color >>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>> >>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gloria G" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> hey all, >>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>> I am >>> also >>> >>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>> Does >>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>> aps I >>> >>> should get? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>> %40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 02:35:54 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:35:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> <001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com> <39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Becky, My name is LaVonnya. I have an iPod touch. Now I no that it can be called thebitouch, it looks a lot like the iPhone. It has VoiceOver on it. But the iPhone is louder. It a touch screen. Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 22:20, becky wrote: > Hi Chris > Ny name is Becky Sabo. I have a I phone. I would like to know more about the I pod. If you could email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com > Thanks > Becky > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> I d k what I was thinking. Laugh out loud >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 28, 2012, at 21:18, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: >> >>> LOL! That's OK! >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone >>> >>> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi LaVonya, >>>> >>>> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version >>>> of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older >>>> iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating >>>> system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, >>>> the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which >>>> is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not >>>> all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on >>>> the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the >>>> iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text >>>> messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >>>> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect >>>> to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a >>>> wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two >>>> devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) >>>> better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone >>> has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now >>> have Siri in iOS 6. >>>> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >>>> without the phone part. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> What the heck is an I touch? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sophie, >>>>> >>>>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >>>>> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>>>> third gen and later. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>>>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>>>> mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>>>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "becky sabo" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>>>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>>>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>>>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >>>>> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >>>>> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >>>>> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >>>>> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over >>> on it . >>>>> Thanks again. >>>>> Becky Sabo >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >>>>> these aps out >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jewel" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>>>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>>>> seconds >>>>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>>>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>>>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>>>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>>>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>>>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>>>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>>>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>>>> access to Blackboard >>>>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>>>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >>>>> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >>>>> thing around >>>>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>>>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >>>>> 75 gestures. >>>>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >>>>> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >>>>> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >>>>> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >>>>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>>>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>>>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>>>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>>>> Radio: >>>>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>>>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>>>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >>>>> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >>>>> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >>>>> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>>>> Put >>>>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >>>>> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >>>>> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >>>>> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >>>>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>>>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>>>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>>>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>>>> sidewalks. >>>>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>>>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>>>> This >>>>> really works! >>>>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>>>> I'm >>>>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>>>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>>>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>>>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>>>> >>>>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>>>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >>>>> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>>>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >>>>> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >>>>> time, you'll be an expert at it. >>>>> >>>>> ~Jewel >>>>> >>>>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>>>> color >>>>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>>>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>>> >>>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Gloria G" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>>> >>>>> hey all, >>>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>>>> I am >>>>> also >>>>> >>>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>>>> Does >>>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>>>> aps I >>>>> >>>>> should get? Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>> %40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>>>> %40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>>> %40gm >>>>> ail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>>>> gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>>> m%40gmail.c >>>>> om >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>>> r%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>>>> m >>>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>>> mail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From hotdancer1416 at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 02:39:57 2012 From: hotdancer1416 at gmail.com (Lavonya Gardner) Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 22:39:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <027364C7-D1DC-4244-9ED6-C990B0E5EC63@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com> <19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> <027364C7-D1DC-4244-9ED6-C990B0E5EC63@gmail.com> Message-ID: <537D0F93-3D2F-46BB-92C9-5AA573B51458@gmail.com> I spent about $2:30 4 mine Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2012, at 22:28, becky wrote: > Hi > How much the touch cost an get more info. > Becky > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > >> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" wrote: >> >>> Hi LaVonya, >>> >>> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version of the >>> iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older iPods (the iPod >>> Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating system, which is the >>> same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of the >>> same characteristics as the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on the >>> same operating system. Most if not all of the same apps which are supported >>> on the iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between the >>> iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and >>> send text messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >>> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect to >>> the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a wifi >>> connection. There are some other minor differences in the two devices, such >>> as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. I >>> could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the >>> iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS 6. >>> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone without >>> the phone part. >>> >>> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> What the heck is an I touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi Sophie, >>>> >>>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has >>>> at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>>> third gen and later. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "becky sabo" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod >>>> to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my >>>> learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great >>>> and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com >>>> the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . >>>> Thanks again. >>>> Becky Sabo >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these >>>> aps out >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>>> seconds >>>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>>> access to Blackboard >>>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >>>> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >>>> around >>>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 >>>> gestures. >>>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >>>> notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the >>>> President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and >>>> what the president and his wife are up to >>>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>>> Radio: >>>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to >>>> a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and >>>> use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >>>> recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>>> Put >>>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you >>>> go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed >>>> to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >>>> paper coupons of any kind! >>>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>>> sidewalks. >>>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>>> This >>>> really works! >>>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>>> I'm >>>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>>> >>>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>>> >>>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set >>>> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for >>>> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, >>>> you'll be an expert at it. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>>> color >>>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>> >>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gloria G" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> hey all, >>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>>> I am >>>> also >>>> >>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>>> Does >>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>>> aps I >>>> >>>> should get? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>>> %40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com From member at linkedin.com Sat Sep 29 04:08:47 2012 From: member at linkedin.com (jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 04:08:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> LinkedIn ------------ jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Eric, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - jeff Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I371147311_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYNcjcTd34NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1seaNGtG1U2Bs1 View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/85813888_I371147311_11/?hs=false&tok=1O9bfFKr9U2Bs1 ------------------------------------------ You are receiving Invitation emails. This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. Learn why this is included: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2ymg5b38JU2Bs1 (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 29 16:27:39 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:27:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <027364C7-D1DC-4244-9ED6-C990B0E5EC63@gmail.com> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com><19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com> <027364C7-D1DC-4244-9ED6-C990B0E5EC63@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C9BE47ECDBB4FF892A91ADB4637293E@OwnerPC> Becky, Costs depends on where you live and what sort of deals they have at the apple store or in local vendors. Call an apple store and find out. -----Original Message----- From: becky Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone Hi How much the touch cost an get more info. Becky Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> Hi LaVonya, >> >> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version of >> the >> iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older iPods (the >> iPod >> Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating system, which is >> the >> same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of >> the >> same characteristics as the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on >> the >> same operating system. Most if not all of the same apps which are >> supported >> on the iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between >> the >> iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls >> and >> send text messages using native apps (apps which are built into the >> phone,) >> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect to >> the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a wifi >> connection. There are some other minor differences in the two devices, >> such >> as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. >> I >> could say that another difference is that the iPhone has Siri, which the >> iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users now have Siri in iOS >> 6. >> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >> without >> the phone part. >> >> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >> >> What the heck is an I touch? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi Sophie, >>> >>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she has >>> at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>> third gen and later. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "becky sabo" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I pod >>> to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read my >>> learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be great >>> and I need answer asap. You can email me back at beckyasabo at gmail.com >>> the only request for the I pod it needs voice over on it . >>> Thanks again. >>> Becky Sabo >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check these >>> aps out >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jewel" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>> seconds >>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>> access to Blackboard >>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great tool >>> if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy thing >>> around >>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is 75 >>> gestures. >>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect musical >>> notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight from the >>> President's office, great for keeping up with federal programs and >>> what the president and his wife are up to >>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>> Radio: >>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them to >>> a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well and >>> use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying new >>> recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>> Put >>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when you >>> go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have mailed >>> to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or dealing with >>> paper coupons of any kind! >>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>> sidewalks. >>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>> This >>> really works! >>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>> I'm >>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>> >>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>> >>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to set >>> up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it for >>> me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no time, >>> you'll be an expert at it. >>> >>> ~Jewel >>> >>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>> thanks >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sophie Trist" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> >>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>> color >>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>> >>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gloria G" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> hey all, >>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>> I am >>> also >>> >>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>> Does >>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>> aps I >>> >>> should get? Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>> %40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>> %40gm >>> ail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>> gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>> m%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>> r%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 29 16:31:58 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:31:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com><19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com><001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com><39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <07DD776D1101468C929110734A3766F1@OwnerPC> Becky, there are several versions of the ipod. The ipod touch is a small device about the size of a phone or smaller. So, when you say you want to know more about the ipods, specify which one you want to know about. BTW the ipod shuffle is a small device but not as much memory, holds two gb of memory. But it’s a good choice if you do not want to learn a touch screen and gestures. It actually has a circle comprised of buttons that you operate it with. Bad news is you cannot jump from album to album or create playlists. You have to go through all the songs to get what you want. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: becky Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone Hi Chris Ny name is Becky Sabo. I have a I phone. I would like to know more about the I pod. If you could email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com Thanks Becky Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I d k what I was thinking. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 21:18, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> LOL! That's OK! >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone >> >> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi LaVonya, >>> >>> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a version >>> of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike the older >>> iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the iOS operating >>> system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. As Sophie said, >>> the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as the iPhone, which >>> is mostly because they run on the same operating system. Most if not >>> all of the same apps which are supported on the iPhone can be run on >>> the iTouch. The two big differences between the iPod Touch and the >>> iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone calls and send text >>> messages using native apps (apps which are built into the phone,) >>> something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the iPhone can connect >>> to the Internet using a cell phone signal, whereas the iTouch needs a >>> wifi connection. There are some other minor differences in the two >>> devices, such as the iPhone has a faster processor and (in my opinion) >>> better speakers. I could say that another difference is that the iPhone >> has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch users >> now >> have Siri in iOS 6. >>> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >>> without the phone part. >>> >>> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> What the heck is an I touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi Sophie, >>>> >>>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >>>> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on the >>>> third gen and later. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "becky sabo" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four s >>>> and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to the >>>> apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have looked >>>> online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a accessable I >>>> pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap so I can read >>>> my learning li and book share books for school. Any help would be >>>> great and I need answer asap. You can email me back at >>>> beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs voice over >> on it . >>>> Thanks again. >>>> Becky Sabo >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >>>> these aps out >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>>> seconds >>>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the flash >>>> feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use this for >>>> school, very handy in math and science classes >>>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use WiFi >>>> or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to what you >>>> type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you full >>>> access to Blackboard >>>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >>>> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the heavy >>>> thing around >>>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >>>> 75 gestures. >>>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >>>> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >>>> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >>>> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >>>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews on >>>> products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing app >>>> that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>>> Radio: >>>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >>>> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >>>> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and trying >>>> new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>>> Put >>>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >>>> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >>>> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >>>> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >>>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, bus >>>> stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it has >>>> sidewalks. >>>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>>> This >>>> really works! >>>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>>> I'm >>>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are lots >>>> of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>>> >>>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the ones >>>> mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>>> >>>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >>>> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If you >>>> bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did it >>>> for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >>>> time, you'll be an expert at it. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>>> color >>>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>> >>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gloria G" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> hey all, >>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>>> I am >>>> also >>>> >>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>>> Does >>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any neat >>>> aps I >>>> >>>> should get? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>>> %40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >>>> m >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From lily2011a at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 19:15:49 2012 From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:15:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> References: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> Message-ID: Hello, I think you have the wrong email address. I am not Eric. Thank You. Have a great day. Lily On 9/29/12, jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Eric, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - jeff > > Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_pJsa/blk/I371147311_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYNcjcTd34NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1seaNGtG1U2Bs1 > > View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/85813888_I371147311_11/?hs=false&tok=1O9bfFKr9U2Bs1 > ------------------------------------------ > You are receiving Invitation emails. > > > This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. > Learn why this is included: > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&tok=2ymg5b38JU2Bs1 > > (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, > USA. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 19:49:51 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:49:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> Message-ID: <002101cd9e7b$988aed60$c9a0c820$@gmail.com> I actually don't know an Eric Gaudes on this list. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liliya Asadullina Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 3:16 PM To: jeff crouch, KD8QIQ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Hello, I think you have the wrong email address. I am not Eric. Thank You. Have a great day. Lily On 9/29/12, jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Eric, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - jeff > > Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_p > Jsa/blk/I371147311_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3 > RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYNcjcTd34NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBx > bOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1seaNGtG1U2Bs1 > > View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/8 > 5813888_I371147311_11/?hs=false&tok=1O9bfFKr9U2Bs1 > ------------------------------------------ > You are receiving Invitation emails. > > > This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. > Learn why this is included: > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2El > inkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&to > k=2ymg5b38JU2Bs1 > > (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA > 94043, USA. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 20:04:48 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 16:04:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone In-Reply-To: <07DD776D1101468C929110734A3766F1@OwnerPC> References: <01f301cd9dca$8a2900b0$9e7b0210$@gmail.com><19D895C3-3CB0-48A8-ABEF-3D4CA22B9014@gmail.com><001601cd9de0$54d283d0$fe778b70$@gmail.com><39A87958-ED46-4DDF-AF6D-B78E118D479A@gmail.com> <07DD776D1101468C929110734A3766F1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <002201cd9e7d$b0b365a0$121a30e0$@gmail.com> Ashley, I have emailed Becky off-list. I believe she wants to know about the iPod Touch. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 12:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone Becky, there are several versions of the ipod. The ipod touch is a small device about the size of a phone or smaller. So, when you say you want to know more about the ipods, specify which one you want to know about. BTW the ipod shuffle is a small device but not as much memory, holds two gb of memory. But it’s a good choice if you do not want to learn a touch screen and gestures. It actually has a circle comprised of buttons that you operate it with. Bad news is you cannot jump from album to album or create playlists. You have to go through all the songs to get what you want. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: becky Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 10:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone Hi Chris Ny name is Becky Sabo. I have a I phone. I would like to know more about the I pod. If you could email me off list at beckyasabo at gmail.com Thanks Becky Sent from my iPhone On Sep 28, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Lavonya Gardner wrote: > I d k what I was thinking. Laugh out loud > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 28, 2012, at 21:18, "Chris Nusbaum" > wrote: > >> LOL! That's OK! >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:20 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the iPod Touch was RE: Eye Phone >> >> I should have known. . I have 1. Laugh out loud >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Sep 28, 2012, at 18:42, "Chris Nusbaum" >> wrote: >> >>> Hi LaVonya, >>> >>> The iPod Touch, or iTouch as we users call it for short, is a >>> version of the iPod manufactured by Apple, as Sophie said. Unlike >>> the older iPods (the iPod Nano, Shuffle, etc,) the iTouch runs the >>> iOS operating system, which is the same OS the iPhone and iPad run. >>> As Sophie said, the iTouch has many of the same characteristics as >>> the iPhone, which is mostly because they run on the same operating >>> system. Most if not all of the same apps which are supported on the >>> iPhone can be run on the iTouch. The two big differences between the >>> iPod Touch and the iPhone are (1) that the iPhone can make phone >>> calls and send text messages using native apps (apps which are built >>> into the phone,) something that the iPod Touch can't do, and (2) the >>> iPhone can connect to the Internet using a cell phone signal, >>> whereas the iTouch needs a wifi connection. There are some other >>> minor differences in the two devices, such as the iPhone has a >>> faster processor and (in my opinion) better speakers. I could say >>> that another difference is that the iPhone >> has Siri, which the iTouch doesn't have, but I believe we iTouch >> users now have Siri in iOS 6. >>> Other than these differences, the iTouch is pretty much the iPhone >>> without the phone part. >>> >>> If you have any questions about the iTouch, please let me know off-list. >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Lavonya Gardner >>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:34 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>> >>> What the heck is an I touch? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 22:45, Sophie Trist >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Chris. I only have an iPhone so am not familiar with iTouches. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi Sophie, >>>> >>>> Yes, Becky could do this. However, she needs to make sure that she >>>> has at least the third generation iTouch, as VoiceOver is only on >>>> the third gen and later. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Sophie Trist >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:12 PM >>>> To: beckyasabo at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> You could get an older version of the iPod touch. The older >>>> generations are often much cheaper than the newer ones. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "becky sabo" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> Date sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:02:43 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I was wondering if anyone can help me out. I have the I phone four >>>> s and it keeps freezing and it works with voice over when I go to >>>> the apple store for them to reset it. I need a I pod. I have >>>> looked online and the new I pod is to expensive. Is there a >>>> accessable I pod to get that is not too expensive. I need one asap >>>> so I can read my learning li and book share books for school. Any >>>> help would be great and I need answer asap. You can email me back >>>> at beckyasabo at gmail.com the only request for the I pod it needs >>>> voice over >> on it . >>>> Thanks again. >>>> Becky Sabo >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria G >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:01 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> thanks these sound great. I can't wait to get my phone and check >>>> these aps out >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jewel" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> A few other apps that I like, in addition to the ones mentioned: >>>> *My AT&T: Check your usage and make payments from your phone in >>>> seconds >>>> *Flashlight: Just what it sounds like. It uses your battery fast, >>>> though, since the flashlight is essentially constant use of the >>>> flash feature of your phone *Talking Scientific Calculator: I use >>>> this for school, very handy in math and science classes >>>> Dictionary.com: A dictionary at your fingertips. It doesn't use >>>> WiFi or your data plan unless you need to find words similar to >>>> what you type, such as if you mispell the word *Blackboard Mobile Learn: >>>> Another great school app that I use almost daily. It gives you >>>> full access to Blackboard >>>> Pages: Apple's word processor. Type your notes in class using your >>>> phone and bluetooth keyboard, then e-mail them to yourself. Great >>>> tool if you don't have a laptop or don't feel like dragging the >>>> heavy thing around >>>> Moxy: A word-making game that is fully accessible >>>> ZaniTouch: Like BopIt except with iPhone gestures. My high score is >>>> 75 gestures. >>>> Papa Sangre: A more challenging game where you have to collect >>>> musical notes while avoiding enemies *White House: News straight >>>> from the President's office, great for keeping up with federal >>>> programs and what the president and his wife are up to >>>> *AccessWorld: The AFB's monthly magazine, which often has reviews >>>> on products and books that are very useful *NFB Newsline: Amazing >>>> app that brings Newsline to your phone without having to call the number. >>>> All the same features are there, so it's easy to learn *iBlink >>>> Radio: >>>> This is the app to go to for your local reading radio service, as >>>> well as other radio statioons such as a 24/7 Olde Time Radio Shows >>>> station *Food on the Table: Find recipes by category, then add them >>>> to a grocery list that you can add non-ingredient items to as well >>>> and use to go shopping. This is great for organizing meals and >>>> trying new recipes *Savings STar: Have a card for your local grocery store? >>>> Put >>>> the card info into this app, select coupons from a list, and when >>>> you go shopping, the savings go into an account that you can have >>>> mailed to you after $5 is racked up. No more cutting coupons or >>>> dealing with paper coupons of any kind! >>>> *WalkScore: Looking to move? Check out the walk score for the new >>>> neighbourhood to find out if it's suitable for someone who doesn't >>>> have a car. The walk score is based on how close it is to stores, >>>> bus stops, and the like, as well as how heavy traffic is and if it >>>> has sidewalks. >>>> Oh Moby: Take a picture of something, and it searches for something >>>> similar on the internet and tells you what you took a picture of. >>>> This >>>> really works! >>>> *Prizmo: This is like SayText, but some people like it better. >>>> I'm >>>> still playing with it, so I'm not sure of it yet, but there are >>>> lots of tutorials online on how to use Prizmo. >>>> >>>> Sorry that was such a long list, but that goes thru all the apps I >>>> have that I would recommend to a blind person, not including the >>>> ones mentioned above, which I also endorse. >>>> >>>> A tip:When you get your iPhone, sit down with a tech at the Apple >>>> store near you and have them show you how to use VoiceOver, how to >>>> set up your e-mail, and how to set up your bluetooth keyboard. If >>>> you bring the keyboard to them, they'll set it up for you; they did >>>> it for me! Then just play around with the phone and practice. In no >>>> time, you'll be an expert at it. >>>> >>>> ~Jewel >>>> >>>> On 9/25/12, Gloria G wrote: >>>> thanks >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sophie Trist" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 9:07 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> >>>> Gloria, here is a list of apps you should get: >>>> 1. Read2Go: bookshare app >>>> 2. Looktell Money Reader: currency identifier 3. Aid Colors: >>>> color >>>> identifier 4. Saytext: OCR scanner 5. iBooks: gives access to the >>>> Apple bookstore 6. Blio (if you like audio books) >>>> >>>> Feel free to email me offlist if you need any more sugestions or tips. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gloria G" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>> Date sent: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:09:31 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Eye Phone >>>> >>>> hey all, >>>> I will be getting a I-phone in a couple of days and am excited. >>>> I am >>>> also >>>> >>>> getting the boxwave buddy keyboard that slides under the phone. >>>> Does >>>> anyone have any suggestions for first time users? Are there any >>>> neat aps I >>>> >>>> should get? Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2 >>>> %40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves >>>> %40gm >>>> ail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40 >>>> gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau >>>> m%40gmail.c >>>> om >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade >>>> r%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>> nabs-l: >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%4 >>>> 0g >>>> m >>>> ail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%4 >>> 0g >>> mail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >> nabs-l: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40 >>> gm >>> ail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40 >> gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hotdancer1416%40g >> mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail > .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sat Sep 29 21:10:29 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 17:10:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Accessible-iOS another Facebook change In-Reply-To: <50E9328B-73B0-42E6-81F9-35674FFB4311@me.com> References: <50E9328B-73B0-42E6-81F9-35674FFB4311@me.com> Message-ID: <004701cd9e86$db3ee1b0$91bca510$@gmail.com> FYI: -----Original Message----- From: accessible-ios at googlegroups.com [mailto:accessible-ios at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 9:08 AM To: accessible-ios at googlegroups.com; macvisionaries at googlegroups.com Subject: Accessible-iOS another Facebook change Hi all, Please excuse the cross-post, but I thought everyone would like to know this. Apparently Facebook is messing around with people's privacy settings yet again. Now all of your private messages sent prior to 2010 are visible to all, as someone put it on FB, they just look like regular wall posts. the only instructions I've seen so far to hide these messages are for sighted users, but generally, you have to go into your timeline, go to years 2007, 2008, 2009, and hide each year's messages. Not quite sure how we're supposed to do this, if I learn more I'll post. This may be just obnoxious enough to get me to leave Facebook. Cheers, Donna -- To Contact the list admin with questions or concerns send email to: beto.arreola22 at gmail.com To subscribe to the group send email to: accessible-iOs+subscribe at googlegroups.com To post to this group, send email to accessible-iOs at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to accessible-iOs+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/accessible-iOs?hl=en From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Sep 30 01:23:29 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 01:23:29 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <002101cd9e7b$988aed60$c9a0c820$@gmail.com> References: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> , <002101cd9e7b$988aed60$c9a0c820$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Lily and all. What happens, is when someone sends an invitation to Linkedin, it goes to all of that person's contacts. This list may be in his contacts, so we could've gotten this, by default. Since this is a common practice of some on here, as a fellow poster, (I'm not trying to be the moderator,) but please send your Linkedin invitations to just that one person, and not to all of your contacts. Thanks, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chris Nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:49 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn I actually don't know an Eric Gaudes on this list. Chris -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liliya Asadullina Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 3:16 PM To: jeff crouch, KD8QIQ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Hello, I think you have the wrong email address. I am not Eric. Thank You. Have a great day. Lily On 9/29/12, jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn wrote: > LinkedIn > ------------ > > > > > jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Eric, > > I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. > > - jeff > > Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_p > Jsa/blk/I371147311_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3 > RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYNcjcTd34NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBx > bOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1seaNGtG1U2Bs1 > > View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/8 > 5813888_I371147311_11/?hs=false&tok=1O9bfFKr9U2Bs1 > ------------------------------------------ > You are receiving Invitation emails. > > > This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. > Learn why this is included: > http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2El > inkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&to > k=2ymg5b38JU2Bs1 > > (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA > 94043, USA. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail. > com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 01:37:30 2012 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 21:37:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: References: <575976056.2349418.1348891727758.JavaMail.app@ela4-app2314.prod> <002101cd9e7b$988aed60$c9a0c820$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <-1341241462641906530@unknownmsgid> I didn't know that. Thanks! Chris Nusbaum Sent from my iPod On Sep 29, 2012, at 9:24 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Hi, Lily and all. > What happens, is when someone sends an invitation to Linkedin, it goes to all of that person's contacts. > This list may be in his contacts, so we could've gotten this, by default. > Since this is a common practice of some on here, as a fellow poster, (I'm not trying to be the moderator,) but please send your Linkedin invitations to just that one person, and not to all of your contacts. > Thanks, Joshua > ________________________________________ > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Chris Nusbaum [dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:49 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn > > I actually don't know an Eric Gaudes on this list. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Liliya Asadullina > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 3:16 PM > To: jeff crouch, KD8QIQ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn > > Hello, > I think you have the wrong email address. > I am not Eric. > Thank You. > Have a great day. > Lily > > On 9/29/12, jeff crouch, KD8QIQ via LinkedIn wrote: >> LinkedIn >> ------------ >> >> >> >> >> jeff crouch, KD8QIQ requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: >> >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> Eric, >> >> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. >> >> - jeff >> >> Accept invitation from jeff crouch, KD8QIQ >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/2LScsQM0ZAGW3fi7AMe09Fk_p >> Jsa/blk/I371147311_11/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3 >> RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYNclYNcjcTd34NdPd9bRwRpl9NkmJGbPcTd3AVcz8Se3wLrCBx >> bOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=false&tok=1seaNGtG1U2Bs1 >> >> View profile of jeff crouch, KD8QIQ >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/rso/206820722/6Jhj/name/8 >> 5813888_I371147311_11/?hs=false&tok=1O9bfFKr9U2Bs1 >> ------------------------------------------ >> You are receiving Invitation emails. >> >> >> This email was intended for Eric Gaudes. >> Learn why this is included: >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-qot5zu-h7o7b2bs-0/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2El >> inkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=false&to >> k=2ymg5b38JU2Bs1 >> >> (c) 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA >> 94043, USA. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail. >> com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 01:38:57 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 19:38:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Colorado Association of Blind Students Convention Registration Message-ID: Dear CABS members, The Colorado Association of Blind Students (CABS) will be holding a seminar and annual business meeting on Saturday, October 27, during the convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in Boulder. In order to be eligible to vote in the elections and participate in CABS business, you will need to have your $5 dues paid before the start of the meeting. To save time, we encourage you to register for the CABS meeting and pay your dues in advance by going to https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=8NH6YPULNG7T2 All those who register before Friday, Oct. 26 will be entered into a special prize drawing. Best and see you at the convention, Arielle Silverman, Secretary, CABS From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Sep 30 04:17:40 2012 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:17:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note file translation Message-ID: <2282FFF83FA24C6CBFE36E8E945C098A@OwnerPC> Hi all, I have some questions about dealing with file conversions on the Braille Note. I want to edit some documents on the pc that were written on the Braille Note. I also want to transfer some files to a text format so I can view them on the pc. I can backup all files and will do that, but the disadvantage is they cannot be read on the pc then. Some files I’d like to access on the computer especially since my notetaker will go in for repair soon; I have an em power. So my questions: Can I translate multiple files at once to a text format such as .doc or .txt using the file menu and going to translate? I was hoping to translate a whole folder at once. Can I save multiple files at once to an external storage device such as a USB drive? The only way I know is to convert them one by one and then save them to the external device. Is there another way to translate files to a text document type? I don’t know how to use active sync, but I think I have to install that on my pc first. What does this software do? How do I convert text files I wrote on the pc to the braille Note format, keyword format? Thanks. Ashley From JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com Sun Sep 30 11:50:24 2012 From: JLester8462 at PCCUAEDU.onmicrosoft.com (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:50:24 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare problems Message-ID: I can't figure out how to resubscribe to Bookshare's mailing list, using my new E-mail address. There's nowhere on their site to subscribe, (that I can find.) Thanks, Joshua From sweetpeareader at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 14:04:18 2012 From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:04:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note file translation Message-ID: <5068518c.0d5c650a.376d.ffffb661@mx.google.com> Ashley,=20as=20far=20as=20I=20know,=20you=20have=20to=20convert=20all=20key= word=20files=20 individually=20to=20text=20formats.=20However,=20if=20you=20convert=20a=20w= hole=20 folder=20of=20files=20to=20text=20formats,=20you=20can=20copy=20that=20fold= er=20onto=20an=20 external=20storage=20device. =20-----=20Original=20Message=20----- From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20 Joshua, point of clarification--do you have a Bookshare account? Because if you already have an account and want to change the email address on it, you have to call the Bookshare number. When I was little, my mom made a Bookshare account for me using her email. I just called them and got them to change the email address for the account with my name on it to my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester References: <506851f2.847cec0a.1e6d.ffffda93@mx.google.com> Message-ID: So, I have to call them? Hmmm! Okay. I've had my account, since high school. Blessings, Joshua ________________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist [sweetpeareader at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:06 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Bookshare problems Joshua, point of clarification--do you have a Bookshare account? Because if you already have an account and want to change the email address on it, you have to call the Bookshare number. When I was little, my mom made a Bookshare account for me using her email. I just called them and got them to change the email address for the account with my name on it to my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Lester Hi all, I know NFB doesn’t focus on treatment of blindness or low vision; they focus on living with it and adapting to the world with training and equipment. But many organizations do focus on this such as Foundation Fighting Blindness and the organization mentioned in this article. The link is below to the article. I think this guy in the article was sure taking a gamble with his life to walk to work without a cane and only relying on unclear vision. At least the quote from him indicates its hard to focus and learn to see with this artificial vision; not as if he claims its perfect. Still he is happy with the artificial vision he does have through the camera. I’ve had very limited vision all my life and I was fortunate to be taught braille after they taught me large print, but realized its shortcomings; so I learned braille and I had a cane in mid elementary school. Training in O&M was a lot to be desired, but I did learn how to use it as well as other alternative techniques from my teacher of the vision impaired. Therefore, I’m adapting and still learning with what I have. Techniques will also change with technology; for instance, when I was young, we had no digital recorders, digital NLS players, no book share or any way to download books in braille, no bar code readers, and scanners were around although not to the efficient degree we have today. So, with all that said, I’m not sure I’d want more vision. But this article paints a picture of getting some vision back as a good thing. I certainly would not want to enter the sighted world as I would not know how to function. If you read the article, what do you think? Would you take artificial vision? This is becoming a reality and they are going to improve the technology. The chip sends signals to the camera which sends signals to the eyes so the person can see some images. Here it is. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57522740/new-technology-may-bring-sight-back-to-blind/ From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 22:01:15 2012 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 16:01:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] curing blindness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I have studied this topic a bit because it was the subject of my honors thesis when I was an undergraduate student. I did a survey about six years ago (a few of you may have participated) to assess how blind people felt about the prospect of having their sight restored. One of the most interesting findings was that when asked whether or not one would take a magic pill that would restore full vision immediately with no risks or side effects, only 72% of the sample said they would do it. While most of the participants said they would do it, a substantial minority (about 20%) said no. Some of the people who said no cited concerns about losing their identity as blind people, or having to adjust to a new sense and that possibly taking away from their quality of life. Another finding from the survey was that most people said in order for a sight-restoring technology to be worthwhile, it would have to give them most or all functional vision. I personally don't have any objection to the technology like the Argus II being developed. I do think it could be a problem, though, if technologies that only give very rudimentary vision become popularized. They could perhaps lead people like the man in the article to forego using a proven travel aid like a cane in favor of using very rudimentary vision. As a result, people who have these procedures could actually end up struggling more than they were before. Based on the article, I am not convinced that Lloyd has actually gained any independence from the artificial vision, beyond what he would have gotten with a cane. Instead, it makes him better at passing as a sighted guy, but possibly worse at navigating his environment because he is no longer using a cane. I think the challenges and self-esteem issues associated with "passing" without actually having good skills are evident to many of us. I don't think I would undergo a procedure to improve my vision, for several reasons. I wouldn't even consider it until the technology was extensively tested and perfected, and then, only if it could actually give me full functionality (driving etc.) Even then, I'm not sure I would do it because I am terrified of surgery and only want to go through that if it is absolutely medically necessary, and I do not want to put the rest of my life on hold to learn how to see. I have more ambivalent feelings about how much I want to support research on curing blindness, and I'm curious to know others' thoughts about this. I have a genetic eye condition and have been told I should send my blood to a lab to have my gene identified because this will aid research on genetic treatments. I've debated whether or not to do it and at this point I am mostly indifferent. On one hand, I do think that treatments could legitimately help some people who don't have access to technology or who live in communities where blindness is viewed very poorly. On the other hand, I am bothered by the negative press about blindness that is often propagated by cure-oriented groups like Prevent Blindness America or Foundation Fighting Blindness, making me not want to support these causes. Furthermore, I believe that no matter how good treatments get, some people will continue to be blind. So I would rather direct my limited energy toward finding ways to make life better for those who are blind rather than wiping out blindness. What do you think? Arielle On 9/30/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi all, > > I know NFB doesn’t focus on treatment of blindness or low vision; they focus > on living with it and adapting to the world with training and equipment. > But many organizations do focus on this such as Foundation Fighting > Blindness and the organization mentioned in this article. > The link is below to the article. I think this guy in the article was sure > taking a gamble with his life to walk to work without a cane and only > relying on unclear vision. At least the quote from him indicates its hard to > focus and learn to see with this artificial vision; not as if he claims its > perfect. Still he is happy with the artificial vision he does have through > the camera. > > I’ve had very limited vision all my life and I was fortunate to be taught > braille after they taught me large print, but realized its shortcomings; so > I learned braille and I had a cane in mid elementary school. Training in O&M > was a lot to be desired, but I did learn how to use it as well as other > alternative techniques from my teacher of the vision impaired. > Therefore, I’m adapting and still learning with what I have. Techniques will > also change with technology; for instance, when I was young, we had no > digital recorders, digital NLS players, no book share or any way to download > books in braille, no bar code readers, and scanners were around although not > to the efficient degree we have today. So, with all that said, I’m not sure > I’d want more vision. But this article paints a picture of getting some > vision back as a good thing. I certainly would not want to enter the sighted > world as I would not know how to function. > > > If you read the article, what do you think? Would you take artificial > vision? This is becoming a reality and they are going to improve the > technology. The chip sends signals to the camera which sends signals to the > eyes so the person can see some images. > > Here it is. > http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57522740/new-technology-may-bring-sight-back-to-blind/ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From gera1027 at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 23:06:37 2012 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 18:06:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] curing blindness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5068D07D.4040701@gmail.com> Wow great topic! I?ve been blind from birth due to Retinopathy of Prematurity, and am able to see light. Yes I don't deny sometimes I'd think OK what'what would it be like if I could see maybe in doing more things myself and not depending on others? Would I have studied a different career? As Ariel said yes maybe I'd have a different identity than what I have now. Also would this device be useful in cases like myself where I can see light? Great topic! Hope to learn amd maybe contribute more as the days go by and I see more comments from you guys. Gerardo El 30/09/2012 05:01 p.m., Arielle Silverman escribió: > Hi all, > I have studied this topic a bit because it was the subject of my > honors thesis when I was an undergraduate student. I did a survey > about six years ago (a few of you may have participated) to assess how > blind people felt about the prospect of having their sight restored. > One of the most interesting findings was that when asked whether or > not one would take a magic pill that would restore full vision > immediately with no risks or side effects, only 72% of the sample said > they would do it. While most of the participants said they would do > it, a substantial minority (about 20%) said no. Some of the people who > said no cited concerns about losing their identity as blind people, > or having to adjust to a new sense and that possibly taking away > from their quality of life. > Another finding from the survey was that most people said in order for > a sight-restoring technology to be worthwhile, it would have to give > them most or all functional vision. I personally don't have any > objection to the technology like the Argus II being developed. I do > think it could be a problem, though, if technologies that only give > very rudimentary vision become popularized. They could perhaps lead > people like the man in the article to forego using a proven travel aid > like a cane in favor of using very rudimentary vision. As a result, > people who have these procedures could actually end up struggling more > than they were before. Based on the article, I am not convinced that > Lloyd has actually gained any independence from the artificial vision, > beyond what he would have gotten with a cane. Instead, it makes him > better at passing as a sighted guy, but possibly worse at navigating > his environment because he is no longer using a cane. I think the > challenges and self-esteem issues associated with "passing" without > actually having good skills are evident to many of us. > I don't think I would undergo a procedure to improve my vision, for > several reasons. I wouldn't even consider it until the technology was > extensively tested and perfected, and then, only if it could actually > give me full functionality (driving etc.) Even then, I'm not sure I > would do it because I am terrified of surgery and only want to go > through that if it is absolutely medically necessary, and I do not > want to put the rest of my life on hold to learn how to see. I have > more ambivalent feelings about how much I want to support research on > curing blindness, and I'm curious to know others' thoughts about this. > I have a genetic eye condition and have been told I should send my > blood to a lab to have my gene identified because this will aid > research on genetic treatments. I've debated whether or not to do it > and at this point I am mostly indifferent. On one hand, I do think > that treatments could legitimately help some people who don't have > access to technology or who live in communities where blindness is > viewed very poorly. On the other hand, I am bothered by the negative > press about blindness that is often propagated by cure-oriented groups > like Prevent Blindness America or Foundation Fighting Blindness, > making me not want to support these causes. Furthermore, I believe > that no matter how good treatments get, some people will continue to > be blind. So I would rather direct my limited energy toward finding > ways to make life better for those who are blind rather than wiping > out blindness. What do you think? > Arielle > > On 9/30/12, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I know NFB doesn’t focus on treatment of blindness or low vision; they focus >> on living with it and adapting to the world with training and equipment. >> But many organizations do focus on this such as Foundation Fighting >> Blindness and the organization mentioned in this article. >> The link is below to the article. I think this guy in the article was sure >> taking a gamble with his life to walk to work without a cane and only >> relying on unclear vision. At least the quote from him indicates its hard to >> focus and learn to see with this artificial vision; not as if he claims its >> perfect. Still he is happy with the artificial vision he does have through >> the camera. >> >> I’ve had very limited vision all my life and I was fortunate to be taught >> braille after they taught me large print, but realized its shortcomings; so >> I learned braille and I had a cane in mid elementary school. Training in O&M >> was a lot to be desired, but I did learn how to use it as well as other >> alternative techniques from my teacher of the vision impaired. >> Therefore, I’m adapting and still learning with what I have. Techniques will >> also change with technology; for instance, when I was young, we had no >> digital recorders, digital NLS players, no book share or any way to download >> books in braille, no bar code readers, and scanners were around although not >> to the efficient degree we have today. So, with all that said, I’m not sure >> I’d want more vision. But this article paints a picture of getting some >> vision back as a good thing. I certainly would not want to enter the sighted >> world as I would not know how to function. >> >> >> If you read the article, what do you think? Would you take artificial >> vision? This is becoming a reality and they are going to improve the >> technology. The chip sends signals to the camera which sends signals to the >> eyes so the person can see some images. >> >> Here it is. >> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57522740/new-technology-may-bring-sight-back-to-blind/ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com