[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings

[Arielle Silverman]

Yes, some of them do. Call in advance to find out.
Arielle

On 9/15/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do they have drinks at a food pantry?  Sodas?  Juices?  I can't
> afford it all.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:06:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit
> inwithsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings
>
> Beth,
> Glad you had counseling. I hope things work out for you. I don't
> want to get
> too off topic. I'll just say that there are food pantries and
> don't hesitate
> to use them.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beth
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in
> withsightedsocietyatsocial gatherings
>
> Very good and well said, Arielle.  I already have counseling and
> therapy and a diagnosis of bipolar and a boyfriend who makes such
> fun of me and call me a drama queen.  That's what I get for
> trying to be a little girl when I was four.  Life isn't rainbows
> and bunnies I know.  And I'm livingfb proof of it.  Life is NOT
> one big party and it's hell if you look hard enough.  I have
> counseling to deal with my problems, but my benefits are about to
> be suspended because I may have to change counelors or doctors,
> and my food stamps went down.  Idk how to deal with those human
> services people and I go humgry.  All because I can't get a place
> to live, a job, etc.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:10:42 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> sightedsocietyatsocial gatherings
>
> Hi all,
> Firstly, Beth and Desiree,  I am truly sorry to hear about the
> things
> your parents said or did to you regarding your blindness and
> conformity to social norms. Beth, what your parents did is
> totally
> unacceptable. Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing
> your
> love life or with playing princess games when you were little and
> those things don't even have anything to do with your being
> blind. If
> you haven't yet, I would suggest getting some counseling to help
> you
> cope with these experiences you had as it seems they are still
> affecting you today.
> Desiree, there is no reason for your parents to tell you that you
> will
> end up "fat and worthless" merely because you are blind. These
> statements are not only inaccurate and cruel, but they also can't
> possibly do you any good. I hope that by being on this list you
> have
> learned what blind people have accomplished and what you can
> accomplish in your own life. From your posts here, it is clear
> that
> you are intelligent, have good ideas, and care about others. I
> hope
> that you will get to know some other blind people a little better
> so
> that you can discover the kinds of things that blind people are
> capable of achieving. Whether it be at an NFB function, an ACB
> function, or just a meeting with another blind person who lives
> near
> you, I think that our acquaintances with other blind people are
> the
> best defense against the kinds of negative messages about
> blindness
> and about ourselves that we all get from society at some point.
> The
> best way to discover what you  are good at, and what you enjoy
> doing,
> is to just try a few different activities. Please don't base your
> beliefs about what you can do on the negative statements of
> people who
> don't know anything about blindness and who don't believe in
> blind
> people.
> Finally, I want to make a general comment. We have been talking a
> lot
> about whether we should try to conform to the social norms around
> us.
> While that is one way to increase our chances of being accepted,
> it
> doesn't always work. Another way to increase our chances of being
> accepted is to move to a different community or a different
> situation
> whose norms are closer to our own. For some of us that might mean
> spending more time with other blind people. For others, it might
> mean
> moving to a place that has better public transportation so that
> the
> fact we can't drive doesn't interfere with our fitting in as
> much. Or,
> it could mean moving to an academic field where our intellectual
> abilities matter more than what we are wearing, etc.
> I grew up in Scottsdale, AZ, a wealthy suburb where the sighted
> women
> around me were very much into fashion and beauty. During myteen
> years
> my mother tried to ensure I was accepted by urging (or even
> requiring)
> me to dress nicely,  do fancy things with my hair and wear
> makeup. I
> also have had bad acne since I was 11, and I was put on several
> medications to try to clear it up, but none were very effective.
> There
> were also a couple of years during my adolescence where I was
> required
> to get expensive facials, which involved painful "extractions" to
> attempt to treat my acne. (Sorry to be gross!) While I wanted to
> be
> accepted at school by sighted people, I eventually concluded that
> it
> wasn't worth spending an hour a day straightening my hair, and
> enduring the facials only to have my face break out again a few
> weeks
> later. Plus, I was a teen, and didn't like having my mother
> micromanage my appearance in these ways. I eventually decided
> that all
> sighted people were shallow, superficial jerks who weren't worth
> my
> time and effort to try and impress. So out of rebellion, I
> started
> letting my hair go crazy whenever I could get away with it, and
> spent
> all my time with the few blind friends I had. What I didn't know
> at
> the time was that my stereotype of all sighted people as shallow
> really only applied to sighted people living in Scottsdale. Once
> I
> grew up and got the heck out of Scottsdale, I eventually found a
> few
> sighted people who accepted me for who I was, even without the
> facials
> and with a low-maintenance haircut. I realize now that I really
> didn't
> belong in Scottsdale at all, and blindness had some to do with it
> (Scottsdale also has horrible public transportation), but it was
> also
> about my personality. However, where I live now, I am able to be
> accepted without having to change much of who I am.
> I think that some of us who are struggling to be accepted might
> be
> happier in a different environment--a different part of the
> country,
> attending college or volunteering with peers who share our
> interests,
> or even just getting out of our parents' homes. I actually
> believe
> that voc rehab agencies should subsidize rent costs so that blind
> adults who are still living at home can get their own apartments.
> The
> family home can be a very restrictive environment for many blind
> adults for a variety of reasons: parents who are still
> over-protective, family drama, or even just the fact that the
> house is
> far from public transportation options. It is also hard to build
> blindness skills while living at home, or to date. If you have
> the
> means to move out, I would encourage you to do so, as a step
> toward
> building a life of your own design.
> I know that the teens on the list may have a lot less flexibility
> as
> far as choosing your environment. However, even if you are a teen
> and
> cannot move out yet, you can perhaps look around your school for
> clubs
> to join with people in them who share your interests and views.
> And I
> would encourage you to take every opportunity to get to know
> blind
> people, both those your age and those who are older who  can
> mentor
> you. Of course blind people don't share everything in common, but
> you
> may well find that the confidence you gain from being accepted by
> blind people spills over into your encounters with sighted
> people.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/15/12, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good morning all,
> My message here is not exactly blindness related; however, it is
> on a topic
> we are discussing.  That is the topic of posture.  I thought of
> this since
> posture is a issue for us as blind people.
> There is a study here in Boston for working with lower back
> pain.  I bring
> this up because bad back pain from surgical operations.  Many
> back
> conditions, cause one to have bad posture.  I have really bad
> posture since
> I had surgery that has caused me to stand on a slant.
> The study offers treatment for one to have free PT and yoga,
> Reky.
> Wright me off-list for more information.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 15, 2012, at 9:42 AM, "Rania Ismail CMT"
> <raniaismail04 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> I have issues with balance and posture so my yoga instructor is
> working
> on
> that with me. Working with a yoga instructor to correct your
> posture is
> another idea. I am also working on straingthening my muscles in
> yoga.
> Massage can also help by relaxing the muscles and improving
> range of
> motion
> so you can learn how to move and change your posture.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:47 AM
> To: Nationstrengthening my muscles in yoga as well. Even getting
> a
> massage
> Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> sighted
> societyats.. could help ocial gatherings
>
> Arielle,
> I think a seminar could be held without seeming like preaching.
> I said to Chris that norms differ based on the situation.
> We'd have to be careful though; we do not want participants to
> feel that
> every situation is very scripted. As I said before, social
> gatherings,
> particularly among young people, are relaxed and informal.
>
> If you did such a seminar the format could be lecture based,
> modeling, and
>
> question and answer. People could even submit questions
> anonymously for
> the
> discussion part.
> What could be covered are standard rules of etiquette. My dad
> feels that
> blind people are not as polite and in crowds are quick to shove
> each other
>
> aside, and sadly this is partly true.
> Its not about acting like sighted people, its about being
> courteous and
> blending in.
> You could talk about it briefly and role play situations. Topics
> like
> manners, what to do when you greet a new person,
> how you are supposed to wait in line for many things, clothing
> tips,
> nonverbal communication like gestures, and acceptable ways of
> fidgiting.
> Blindisms are not acceptable, but there are acceptable ways of
> fidgiting
> or
> self stimulation that are.
>
> We want to come across as approachable and nice people.
> Nonverbal
> communication includes correct posture. I suppose if it's a
> chronic issue,
>
> one might want to ask a doctor about it to ensure no underlying
> coordination disorder exists. You could also work with a
> physical
> theripist
> if a muscular problem is present preventing you from having
> correct
> posture.
>
> My guess is a lot of blind people look down as they do not have
> visual
> stimulation to look up and around. Then it's a habit to be bent
> over at
> the
> shoulders which is hard to correct. Another theory I have is
> that blind
> kids
>
> were sheltered and kept from moving about freely; eventually,
> this affects
>
> posture because your body adapts to a still position; muscles
> can shorten,
>
> lose their elasticity, become stiff and disjointed.
>
> I do pretty good with posture. But, I do struggle with eye
> contact. I have
>
> some vision and if I try to focus for a long time, my eyes start
> their
> nystagmus fit, meaning they shake involuntarily. Another thing
> is my
> parents
>
> tell me I look like I'm staring at people; I don't mean too, but
> its
> simply
> that I'm looking around  to see what I can.
> Another thing is while I have stopped rocking since my folks
> worked on
> that
> as I was young, I do it occasionally. I do so involuntarily for
> balance
> probably without knowing I'm doing it. So, its impossible for me
> to stop
> rocking totally; I simply cannot control a behavior I do not
> realize I'm
> doing. If I concentrate on walking upright and still, I won't do
> it. But I
>
> won't do this most of the time; I simply have too much to think
> about
> rather
>
> than asking myself, am I walking straight, walking upright, and
> is my head
>
> still.
>
>
> I think its important for us to find out about norms and find
> out where to
>
> find such information. The seminar should include that. Online
> resources
> about fashion trends and etiquette is an idea; asking people
> around us is
>
> another, and
> finally magazines would be another. I also wonder if there are
> existing
> videos either for the public, or for us specifically, on this.
> Maybe AFB
> or
> APH would have something, or maybe a video with good
> descriptions exists
> for
>
> the general audience. I don't know.
>
> Speaking of nonverbal communication, I'd really like to learn
> gestures.
> Someday, if I take public speaking, I'm going to ask the teacher
> to teach
> me
>
> this.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:26 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> sighted
> societyat
>
> social gatherings
>
> Hi all,
> I think it is absolutely critical to point out that "sighted
> society"
> is not a uniform group of people who all share identical norms,
> attitudes and actions. If it were, there would be no wars, no
> religious or political differences, no unique languages,
> cultures,
> customs, etc. Rather, "society" as a whole is divided into many
> subgroups that all carry different norms. A few norms, like not
> killing other people, are near-universal, but most customs
> relating to
> dress, mannerisms, speech, nonverbal communication, etc. differ
> between cultures and sometimes between subgroups within a
> culture
> (i.e. people dress differently in San Francisco  than they do in
> Washington, D.C. and college students dress differently from
> lawyers
> etc.) It is impossible to teach blind people a universal set of
> nonverbal behaviors to adopt even if we wanted to. And, I
> believe that
> blind people should have just as much right as sighted people to
> make
> informed choices about what kinds of norms to follow or not
> follow,
> just as women can choose whether to be stay-at-home mothers or
> to work
> even if being a working woman is not yet "the norm". Of course,
> there
> are consequences for failing to "blend in"  and look like
> everybody
> else, but sometimes there are things to be gained by doing this,
> or
> "blending in" is simply too difficult. As responsible adults we
> need
> to weigh the costs and benefits of following the norms for
> specific
> situations. For example, if I am interviewing for a job, it is
> probably to my advantage to purchase and wear a suit. However,
> if I am
> doing something less high-stakes, and money is tight, I can
> probably
> get away with just wearing some nice slacks or a dress, even if
> most
> of the other people there are wearing suits.
> I do think it is useful to give blind students information about
> how
> they can learn about the norms present in their particular
> culture,
> i.e. how to learn about the dress code for a new job, where to
> read
> about current fashions, etc. It is also good to provide a forum
> for
> students to ask questions if they wish to learn more about how
> to
> blend in in specific situations. However, I do not think that
> preaching to blind students about the importance of blending in
> does
> much good. The consequences of not blending in are self-evident,
> and
> again, blind students are responsible young adults who need to
> come to
> these decisions for ourselves.
> Finally, I need to once again speak up on behalf of those blind
> folks
> who are labeled "weird" or "socially unskilled" by blind and
> sighted
> alike. As a community of blind people with common experiences,
> we need
> to stop passing judgment or trying to give these folks social
> makeovers, and instead acknowledge that all of us are human
> beings
> with different levels of skill and ability in different areas. I
> always find myself advocating for this often-misunderstood
> subset of
> the blind community because in some ways I am part of that
> group. I
> spent much of my childhood being labeled as socially inadequate,
> struggled with a few different "blindisms" and today still deal
> with
> lifelong gait and posture issues, and challenges with attempting
> eye
> contact. Because of these things some may say I look more
> "blind" than
> the average successful blind person, yet I am a successful
> graduate
> student, financially self-sufficient and in a committed
> relationship.
> In my own case I am very very aware of the importance of
> blending in
> and of how "different" I look at times, because this was
> emphasized to
> me over and over again as a child. My issues are complicated and
> I
> have still not determined if the problems I have with posture
> and
> balance are due to an over-protective home environment when I
> was
> learning to walk, an as-yet-undiagnosed balance/coordination
> impairment, or both. My problem with eye contact is related to
> the
> fact my vision is such that I feel like I am looking at
> someone's face
> when I am actually looking slightly down (and if I actually look
> up
> toward their face I see nothing). I can correct for this but it
> takes
> a ton of effort and focus for me to do so, so most of the time I
> end
> up looking down at someone instead of up at them even though I
> have
> been told hundreds of times how important it is  to attempt eye
> contact. Some others in our community have additional
> disabilities or
> mental conditions that make "blending in" by our definition
> practically impossible, yet these folks still have a lot to
> offer in
> their own way. My point is that so-called social skill deficits
> like
> these are often due to a lot more than just not knowing any
> better or
> being mentally deficient. It is important to recognize that all
> members of our community have strengths and abilities of their
> own,
> even if they seem weak or deficient or even "weird" to us, and
> we
> should do what we can to empower these people instead of using
> them as
> examples of what's wrong with our community as a whole. I hope
> that
> made some sense.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
> of
> me because it just does for some reason.
> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
> shouldn't be scientists.  What does that statement say about us
> girls?  Girls should be married to men with decent jobs.  No, I
> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
> this isn't the friggin' 1800's.  Girls and women can take care
> of
> themselves, and they can work and support families.  Jason, my
> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
> man and work and get paid for the woman.  Some societies demand
> that all men work and women stay home.  We, Americans though we
> are, still have these demands on blind women.  I as a blind
> woman
> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood.  Since
> Jason
> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
> to do it.  Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
> ordinary men.  Jason, due to his disability, does not work.  I,
> due to mental illness, may never work.  I want to work so bad,
> but where?  Goodwill is out of the question.  I'm not working
> for
> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman.  And no way will I
> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
> organs inside me.  I as a blind woman will not accept rules
> saying "You will be taken care of.  You will be a stay-at-home
> wife.  You will be poor."  No way.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> sighted societyat social gatherings
>
> Chris wrote,
> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
> which
> our sighted society has made.  If we don't know them and follow
> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
> are
> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
>
> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such
> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
> self-loathing, and anguish.
>
> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
> interested.
>
> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
> are
> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
> can
> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
> message
> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
> formation
> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
> and
> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
>
> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's
> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this has
> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of mostly
> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as
> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
> effort
> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
> right
> way to act.
>
> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't
> judge
> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
> someone
> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being
> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we should
> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
> people
> how to look and act like sighted people.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brandon and all,
>
> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
> message.
>
> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
> seminars at conventions.  One of the topics at the parents
> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
> schools, with our friends, or in our communities.  Therefore, it
> is important  that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
> society has made.  If we don't know them and follow them, what
> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.  These are the
> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
> out
> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
> blindness and blind people.  In other words, these are the very
> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us.  If this
> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
> citizens at risk.  So, I think this would be a great thing for
> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
> doing already.  Also, since this is an important topic for blind
> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
> of
> a future NABS membership call.
>
> Just my thoughts,
>
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
> Hello,
> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
> sex.  There is
> a huge difference.  If the student division is the only one with
> some
> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
> :)
> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
> sighted
> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by the
> blind
> community.
> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth or
> not) have
> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
> against the grain
> of sighted society.  My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
> suggested that
> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
> world thinks.
> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
> looks at a
> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so weird.
> or a
> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
> him and when
> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
> really weird and
> she turns around and walks a mile away.
> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
> both sexual
> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
> of attention
> among blind individuals, and students in particular.
> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
> aren't meant
> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
> would greatly
> improve convention.
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
> Hi all,
> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
> Whozit
> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are probably
> some
> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel that
> NABS
> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual activity
> among
> young or unmarried blind students.  I don't agree with that
> position,
> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
> extension, an
> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
> or
> bringing on an unwanted political debate.
> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general, and
> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
> proverbial banana or some such.  When I was 15, I went to a
> diversity
> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
> available
> as one of several choices.  They passed around condoms and in
> fact,
> this was the first time I actually felt one.  A general workshop
> about
> sex, dating and etiquette, etc.  might be worth having.
> Arielle
>
> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> wrote:
> Hello,
> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people have
> never
> seen
>
> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
> having to
> be
>
> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
> condoms in
> the store.  Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
> browsing...
> Condoms,
>
> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
> probably need
> to
>
> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put on
> a condom
> or
>
> use a dental dam.
> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.  The
> packing
> guide in the nabs newsletter  said to pack a ton of things and I
> for one
> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
> that sell
> hot
>
> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box.  But I would have loved to
> buy a box
> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
> (Then of
> course
>
> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who didn't
> bring
> their
>
> own utensil's).
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
>
> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
> convention...
>
> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table.  We can even
> braille
> them
>
> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have.  lol
>
> Anmol
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> wrote:
>
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
> list"
>
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
> Hi, Brandon,
>
> I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on
> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum.  If I
> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
> the bookstore, personnel.  Let us know how goes it,
> okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
> Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind...  That
> only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
> Thank you Arielle for those websites.  I don't feel
> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
> knows that site is trust worthy.
> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
> used in oral intercourse.  The same is not for lube I
> presume?
> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
> the experience is often not pleasant.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>
> Hi all,
> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
> are kind of in a
> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
> for this list, since
> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
> unique to blindness.
> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
> too far afield, I
> will happily respect your judgment.  However, I
> also think that
> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
> legitimate one and
> that there might be other blind people out here,
> including teenagers,
> who have similar concerns about how to get
> condoms, birth control or
> sexual health information without a lot of
> awkwardness or
> embarrassment.  It can be particularly difficult if
> you have to depend
> on someone else (especially parents) for
> transportation which can make
> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
> There are a few places to buy condoms online,
> including
> www.condomania.com
> www.undercovercondoms.com
> and
> www.condomdepot.com
> Believe it or not, they also have some condom
> choices at
> www.amazon.com
> If you go to your health center on campus for any
> reason, it shouldn't
> be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there
> about condoms.
> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
> having sex with a
> partner because that is a highly individual
> decision.  However, I feel
> it important that anyone who is considering having
> sex for the first
> time ensure you understand what all of your
> options are for preventing
> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
> advantages and
> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
> to use condoms  and
> birth control.  There are  a couple different
> websites with this kind
> of information:
> www.plannedparenthood.org
> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
> or
> www.scarleteen.com
> This issue is particularly close to my heart at
> the moment because my
> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
> pregnancy at a very
> inopportune time (while still in college, with a
> guy she had only
> known for a few months) and was apparently taking
> birth control pills,
> but had not been taking them consistently.  While I
> don't believe that
> sex  should be feared, it is something that
> takes some responsibility,
> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
> while minimizing the
> risks.  Also, while I won't go into details here,
> there are other ways
> to be physically intimate with someone that are
> less risky, which
> these online forums will talk about.
> I also want to bring up  an issue that is
> somewhat relevant to sexual
> health, which I experienced and I think that some
> of you might also be
> struggling with.  This is the issue of having your
> parents drive you to
> doctors' appointments and then having them want to
> sit in or even
> participate in your appointments.  Since I attended
> college in my home
> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
> doctors' appointments
> and would then want to come in and chat with the
> doctor while he/she
> was examining me.  This was partly because my
> parents and I saw many of
> the same doctors and she often thought it was a
> good opportunity to
> ask the doctor a quick question about her own
> health while she was
> there, or because she was curious to see what the
> doctor recommended
> to me about a particular issue.  I eventually
> realized that while it
> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
> privacy as an adult
> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
> room while I was seeing
> the doctor.  I didn't actually take this stand
> until I was 21 and in
> hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier.
> By the time you are 18,
> unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
> you have a right to
> privacy of your medical information and it is
> important to establish a
> good doctor-patient relationship without a third
> person interfering.
> This is especially true when it comes to sexual
> health and by the time
> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
> discussing your sexual
> activities or questions with your doctors without
> your parents being
> around.  You might also want to consider getting a
> driver or even
> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
> this problem.
> On a related note, by the time you are in high
> school, you should know
> the names of all medications you take on  a
> regular basis and any
> chronic medical conditions you may have.  If you
> ever have to go to the
> emergency room, this kind  of information may
> be requested of you.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
> iggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi
> %40samobile.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co
> mcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%
> 40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
> iggs%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
> iggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.list
> s%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04
> %40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotm
> ail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>