[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings
Desiree Oudinot
turtlepower17 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 21 03:27:45 UTC 2012
Haha, I've used that one a lot with friends. I like it. But people in
positions of authority really seem to say these things for a totally
different reason, and their intentions are far from friendly. As i
said, my former English teacher was really very aggressive when she
went off on me for using what to me seem like common enough words.
What I really should have done was cursed her out just to see what
offended her more.
On 9/20/12, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is something that you can do. It is the exception of following
> mainstream vocabulary like the sighted. When your Mom or your spouse says,
> "well, see you tomorrow, good night." Then you can say, "well, I won't see
> you tomorrow, I can't see you!" * smile *
>
> P.S., the best way to approach these things, are with sense of humor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
> societyatsocial gatherings
>
> Desiree,
> I agree. We should not be offended or excluded by saying watch and see.
> If it’s a normally way of seeing something, say it. I say things like "see
> you later" or "I see your point" when I mean understand it in the latter
> case.
> I think we should follow the same word structure as the mainstream of
> english speakers. So, yeah, to not sound weird I definitely say "I watched a
> movie" or "I watched a tv show".
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Desiree Oudinot
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:45 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted
> societyatsocial gatherings
>
> The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the
> computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A
> movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken
> in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're
> doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds
> weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could
> if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid,
> I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around.
> As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching
> something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really
> mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to
> say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand
> them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't
> included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said
> in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because
> apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what
> would I know about that!
>
> On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>> Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with
>> no
>> TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it.
>> I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when I told
>> him
>> what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that
>> for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate. He actually saw it as
>> me
>> sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it.
>> The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote:
>>
>>>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
>>>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
>>>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
>>>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
>>>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
>>>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
>>>helping by spurring that misconception on.
>>
>>>On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah. I am bj years old. I just
>>>> graduated a program called D.P.I. Davidson Program For
>>>> Independence. I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
>>>> said I had to go. So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
>>>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
>>>> tv, dogs and horses
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
>>>> cultures.
>>>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
>>>> conversation. It is
>>>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
>>>> or more
>>>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
>>>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
>>>> almost always.
>>>>
>>>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
>>>> cultures. A
>>>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
>>>> big eyes
>>>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
>>>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
>>>> front facing
>>>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
>>>> balloon and
>>>> the string is on your finger...
>>>>
>>>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
>>>> it means
>>>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
>>>> glee club,
>>>> getting in a relationship, dating...
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
>>>> world without
>>>> some sighted help.
>>>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
>>>> blind
>>>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
>>>> parents will
>>>> help. I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
>>>> with
>>>> questions like this they are invaluable...
>>>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
>>>> your heart, as
>>>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
>>>> terrified of
>>>> something?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>> sighted societyat
>>>> social gatherings
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
>>>> called
>>>> "Being Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted". Both
>>>> names
>>>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same or that
>>>> there is
>>>> only one way to be socially acceptable; these are notions that,
>>>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
>>>> both.
>>>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
>>>> nonjudgmental
>>>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
>>>> and
>>>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
>>>> place
>>>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
>>>> Also,
>>>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
>>>> majority
>>>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
>>>> teachers
>>>> and authority figures to a minimum.
>>>> I'd support a name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
>>>> "blind-dating" perhaps.
>>>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
>>>> be
>>>> happy to help out with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Names:
>>>> See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
>>>> Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
>>>> Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
>>>> talk sightless (TSightless)
>>>>
>>>> Just some names...
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>> sighted
>>>> societyat
>>>>
>>>> social gatherings
>>>>
>>>> That's actually a pretty good idea for a name. That was the
>>>> only thing
>>>> holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
>>>> really
>>>> think of a name for it. As for making a website, that would be
>>>> a cool
>>>> idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
>>>> go
>>>> that route.
>>>> Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
>>>> divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
>>>> contension on
>>>> the list. I don't want people going to war over which
>>>> organization's
>>>> philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
>>>> situations
>>>> better. It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
>>>> choose,
>>>> but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
>>>> I
>>>> want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
>>>> discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
>>>> social
>>>> awkwardness. If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
>>>> would help
>>>> them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
>>>> will
>>>> that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
>>>> doing
>>>> so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
>>>> happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
>>>> problem,
>>>> it's just something to consider.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
>>>> student and
>>>> NFB's
>>>>
>>>> student division is. We are all dealing with exactly the same
>>>> things. So
>>>> I
>>>> really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
>>>> whatnot to
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> on the list to answer questions we may have. Many TVIs would
>>>> jump at the
>>>> chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
>>>> Just make a group, possibly:
>>>> bseb at googlegroups.com or something :). Being socially
>>>> acceptable blind or
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>> cooler name LOL... Any ideas?
>>>> I even think this should have a website with different articles
>>>> that
>>>> someone
>>>>
>>>> can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
>>>> Because this is
>>>> such a big issue.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Desiree Oudinot
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>> sighted
>>>> societyat
>>>>
>>>> social gatherings
>>>>
>>>> And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
>>>> discuss these kinds of issues and more. And, at the risk of
>>>> offending
>>>> people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
>>>> or
>>>> ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
>>>> matter
>>>> their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
>>>> they fit
>>>> in with society. Why does it offend you that blind people,
>>>> whether
>>>> they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
>>>> sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
>>>> to
>>>> follow? I really want to understand this. I know as well as
>>>> anyone
>>>> what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
>>>> treated
>>>> like human beings. First, we're blind people, then we're young,
>>>> and
>>>> the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
>>>> just as
>>>> crippling as those surrounding being blind. So being dealt both
>>>> as our
>>>> hand in life is kind of a double whammy. I still struggle when
>>>> someone
>>>> actually treats me as an equal. I want to run away.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
>>>> 1. Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
>>>> of
>>>> me because it just does for some reason.
>>>> 2. Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
>>>> shouldn't be scientists. What does that statement say about us
>>>> girls? Girls should be married to men with decent jobs. No, I
>>>> will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
>>>> this isn't the friggin' 1800's. Girls and women can take care
>>>> of
>>>> themselves, and they can work and support families. Jason, my
>>>> current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
>>>> man and work and get paid for the woman. Some societies demand
>>>> that all men work and women stay home. We, Americans though we
>>>> are, still have these demands on blind women. I as a blind
>>>> woman
>>>> cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood. Since
>>>> Jason
>>>> can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
>>>> to do it. Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
>>>> different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
>>>> ordinary men. Jason, due to his disability, does not work. I,
>>>> due to mental illness, may never work. I want to work so bad,
>>>> but where? Goodwill is out of the question. I'm not working
>>>> for
>>>> nothing or low wages because I'm a woman. And no way will I
>>>> accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
>>>> organs inside me. I as a blind woman will not accept rules
>>>> saying "You will be taken care of. You will be a stay-at-home
>>>> wife. You will be poor." No way.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
>>>> sighted societyat social gatherings
>>>>
>>>> Chris wrote,
>>>> Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
>>>> which
>>>> our sighted society has made. If we don't know them and follow
>>>> them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
>>>> are
>>>> weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
>>>> that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
>>>> another, and that they are arbitrary. I believe that such
>>>> unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
>>>> self-loathing, and anguish.
>>>>
>>>> We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
>>>> particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
>>>> put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
>>>> pejorative. I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
>>>> interested.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
>>>> are
>>>> accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
>>>> look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
>>>> are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
>>>> respect as sighted people. The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
>>>> can
>>>> follow your rules, so you should accept us". Instead, the
>>>> message
>>>> should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
>>>> pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
>>>> formation
>>>> of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
>>>> and
>>>> your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
>>>> discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr. Lewis.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
>>>> into sighted society. We are constantly policing one another's
>>>> behaviour. Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
>>>> has
>>>> to do with gender. There are hundreds if not thousands of
>>>> mostly
>>>> unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
>>>> ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
>>>> These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
>>>> result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
>>>> or chooses not to, conform. These gender rules are just as
>>>> arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
>>>> effort
>>>> similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
>>>> explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
>>>> right
>>>> way to act.
>>>>
>>>> This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
>>>> does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
>>>> social, volunteer, and employment opportunities. So I don't
>>>> judge
>>>> or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
>>>> unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
>>>> someone
>>>> who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
>>>> journals and desperately praying for a cure. It's hard being
>>>> blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
>>>> can make things a little bit easier. But I still think we
>>>> should
>>>> work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
>>>> people
>>>> how to look and act like sighted people.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>> On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Brandon and all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
>>>> thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
>>>> brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
>>>> changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
>>>> message.
>>>>
>>>> Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
>>>> instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
>>>> "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
>>>> should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
>>>> (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
>>>> seminars at conventions. One of the topics at the parents
>>>> seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
>>>> skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
>>>> acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
>>>> gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
>>>> I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
>>>> we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
>>>> schools, with our friends, or in our communities. Therefore, it
>>>> is important that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
>>>> society has made. If we don't know them and follow them, what
>>>> does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
>>>> different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc. These are the
>>>> very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
>>>> out
>>>> from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
>>>> blindness and blind people. In other words, these are the very
>>>> things we don't want sighted people thinking about us. If this
>>>> is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
>>>> get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
>>>> citizens at risk. So, I think this would be a great thing for
>>>> the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
>>>> doing already. Also, since this is an important topic for blind
>>>> students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
>>>> of
>>>> a future NABS membership call.
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
>>>> sex. There is
>>>> a huge difference. If the student division is the only one
>>>> with
>>>> some
>>>> practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
>>>> :)
>>>> I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
>>>> sighted
>>>> community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
>>>> the
>>>> blind
>>>> community.
>>>> I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
>>>> or
>>>> not) have
>>>> some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
>>>> against the grain
>>>> of sighted society. My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
>>>> suggested that
>>>> the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
>>>> world thinks.
>>>> Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
>>>> looks at a
>>>> gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
>>>> weird.
>>>> or a
>>>> sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
>>>> him and when
>>>> she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
>>>> really weird and
>>>> she turns around and walks a mile away.
>>>> This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
>>>> both sexual
>>>> health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
>>>> of attention
>>>> among blind individuals, and students in particular.
>>>> I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
>>>> aren't meant
>>>> to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
>>>> would greatly
>>>> improve convention.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
>>>> Whozit
>>>> condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
>>>> probably
>>>> some
>>>> NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
>>>> that
>>>> NABS
>>>> selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
>>>> activity
>>>> among
>>>> young or unmarried blind students. I don't agree with that
>>>> position,
>>>> but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
>>>> extension, an
>>>> NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
>>>> providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
>>>> or
>>>> bringing on an unwanted political debate.
>>>> I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
>>>> Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
>>>> and
>>>> perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
>>>> proverbial banana or some such. When I was 15, I went to a
>>>> diversity
>>>> camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
>>>> available
>>>> as one of several choices. They passed around condoms and in
>>>> fact,
>>>> this was the first time I actually felt one. A general
>>>> workshop
>>>> about
>>>> sex, dating and etiquette, etc. might be worth having.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
>>>> have
>>>> never
>>>> seen
>>>>
>>>> a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
>>>> having to
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
>>>> condoms in
>>>> the store. Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
>>>> browsing...
>>>> Condoms,
>>>>
>>>> lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
>>>> probably need
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
>>>> on
>>>> a condom
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>> use a dental dam.
>>>> Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
>>>> The
>>>> packing
>>>> guide in the nabs newsletter said to pack a ton of things and
>>>> I
>>>> for one
>>>> don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
>>>> that sell
>>>> hot
>>>>
>>>> serial, so wasn't able to grab a box. But I would have loved
>>>> to
>>>> buy a box
>>>> for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
>>>> (Then of
>>>> course
>>>>
>>>> we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
>>>> didn't
>>>> bring
>>>> their
>>>>
>>>> own utensil's).
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Anmol Bhatia
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
>>>> convention...
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table. We can
>>>> even
>>>> braille
>>>> them
>>>>
>>>> so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have. lol
>>>>
>>>> Anmol
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>>>> sad.
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>> like a breeze
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing
>>>> list"
>>>>
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
>>>> Hi, Brandon,
>>>>
>>>> I went into a place in Denver to buy a dildo yes, on
>>>> the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
>>>> I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
>>>> Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum. If I
>>>> remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
>>>> blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
>>>> you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
>>>> the bookstore, personnel. Let us know how goes it,
>>>> okay? At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
>>>> Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
>>>> professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
>>>> Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>>>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
>>>> turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
>>>> I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
>>>> really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind... That
>>>> only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
>>>> Thank you Arielle for those websites. I don't feel
>>>> that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
>>>> never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
>>>> knows that site is trust worthy.
>>>> I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
>>>> used in oral intercourse. The same is not for lube I
>>>> presume?
>>>> Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
>>>> was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
>>>> the experience is often not pleasant.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
>>>> Silverman
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
>>>> are kind of in a
>>>> gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
>>>> for this list, since
>>>> most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
>>>> unique to blindness.
>>>> So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
>>>> too far afield, I
>>>> will happily respect your judgment. However, I
>>>> also think that
>>>> Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
>>>> legitimate one and
>>>> that there might be other blind people out here,
>>>> including teenagers,
>>>> who have similar concerns about how to get
>>>> condoms, birth control or
>>>> sexual health information without a lot of
>>>> awkwardness or
>>>> embarrassment. It can be particularly difficult if
>>>> you have to depend
>>>> on someone else (especially parents) for
>>>> transportation which can make
>>>> going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
>>>> There are a few places to buy condoms online,
>>>> including
>>>> www.condomania.com
>>>> www.undercovercondoms.com
>>>> and
>>>> www.condomdepot.com
>>>> Believe it or not, they also have some condom
>>>> choices at
>>>> www.amazon.com
>>>> If you go to your health center on campus for any
>>>> reason, it shouldn't
>>>> be a problem to ask a doctor or nurse there
>>>> about condoms.
>>>> I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
>>>> having sex with a
>>>> partner because that is a highly individual
>>>> decision. However, I feel
>>>> it important that anyone who is considering having
>>>> sex for the first
>>>> time ensure you understand what all of your
>>>> options are for preventing
>>>> pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
>>>> advantages and
>>>> disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
>>>> to use condoms and
>>>> birth control. There are a couple different
>>>> websites with this kind
>>>> of information:
>>>> www.plannedparenthood.org
>>>> (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
>>>> or
>>>> www.scarleteen.com
>>>> This issue is particularly close to my heart at
>>>> the moment because my
>>>> boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
>>>> pregnancy at a very
>>>> inopportune time (while still in college, with a
>>>> guy she had only
>>>> known for a few months) and was apparently taking
>>>> birth control pills,
>>>> but had not been taking them consistently. While I
>>>> don't believe that
>>>> sex should be feared, it is something that
>>>> takes some responsibility,
>>>> planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
>>>> while minimizing the
>>>> risks. Also, while I won't go into details here,
>>>> there are other ways
>>>> to be physically intimate with someone that are
>>>> less risky, which
>>>> these online forums will talk about.
>>>> I also want to bring up an issue that is
>>>> somewhat relevant to sexual
>>>> health, which I experienced and I think that some
>>>> of you might also be
>>>> struggling with. This is the issue of having your
>>>> parents drive you to
>>>> doctors' appointments and then having them want to
>>>> sit in or even
>>>> participate in your appointments. Since I attended
>>>> college in my home
>>>> city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
>>>> doctors' appointments
>>>> and would then want to come in and chat with the
>>>> doctor while he/she
>>>> was examining me. This was partly because my
>>>> parents and I saw many of
>>>> the same doctors and she often thought it was a
>>>> good opportunity to
>>>> ask the doctor a quick question about her own
>>>> health while she was
>>>> there, or because she was curious to see what the
>>>> doctor recommended
>>>> to me about a particular issue. I eventually
>>>> realized that while it
>>>> wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
>>>> privacy as an adult
>>>> patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
>>>> room while I was seeing
>>>> the doctor. I didn't actually take this stand
>>>> until I was 21 and in
>>>> hindsight I wish I had done it much earlier.
>>>> By the time you are 18,
>>>> unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
>>>> you have a right to
>>>> privacy of your medical information and it is
>>>> important to establish a
>>>> good doctor-patient relationship without a third
>>>> person interfering.
>>>> This is especially true when it comes to sexual
>>>> health and by the time
>>>> you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
>>>> discussing your sexual
>>>> activities or questions with your doctors without
>>>> your parents being
>>>> around. You might also want to consider getting a
>>>> driver or even
>>>> taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
>>>> this problem.
>>>> On a related note, by the time you are in high
>>>> school, you should know
>>>> the names of all medications you take on a
>>>> regular basis and any
>>>> chronic medical conditions you may have. If you
>>>> ever have to go to the
>>>> emergency room, this kind of information may
>>>> be requested of you.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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