[nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with sighted societyatsocial gatherings

Carly Mihalakis carlymih at comcast.net
Fri Sep 21 06:39:24 UTC 2012


Hi, Steve,

You ffought that nonsense, didn't you in the name of writing, of 
artistic expression? Edited you? I, for one am outraged!At 07:45 PM 
9/20/2012, you wrote:
>The same logic can be applied to described movies that are on the
>computer, since they're usually in mp3 format. But why be so picky? A
>movie is a movie. It was made into a format that was meant to be taken
>in visually. Watching it seems the normal way to say what you're
>doing, and frankly, saying you're listening to a movie just sounds
>weird to me. Would you ever say you're watching music? Sure, you could
>if you're watching a music video, but unless you're tripping on acid,
>I'm pretty sure your senses aren't getting shuffled around.
>As for someone getting offended because you said you were watching
>something, that's exactly the kind of behavior that makes me really
>mad. I had an English teacher once who said that I wasn't allowed to
>say words such as look or see because I couldn't possibly understand
>them, and she would make me edit my papers so those words weren't
>included. And then there was the time she yelled at me because I said
>in one story that a cat had stopped at night to rest, because
>apparently I was implying that cats can't see in the dark, and what
>would I know about that!
>
>On 9/20/12, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> > Okay, so if I have a TV show on but it is running through my stereo with no
> > TV screen, am I watching it or am I listening to it.
> > I got into kind of an argument with a sighted co-worker once when 
> I told him
> > what I had watched on TV and he felt strongly that
> > for me to say I was watching TV was not accurate.  He actually saw it as me
> > sort of pretending inasmuch as I did not watch it.
> > The upshot is that we are going to be measured more broadly than that.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:21 -0400, Desiree Oudinot wrote:
> >
> >>Listening to TV, huh? Could this not be a lesson in precisely what
> >>we're discussing here? If we want to fit into the sighted world, we'd
> >>do well to say we're watching TV or a movie like everyone else. I hate
> >>it when someone gets all flustered and up in arms when they can't
> >>think of a politically correct way to ask us blind folks what shows we
> >>like, or worse yet, if we can enjoy the cinema at all. you're not
> >>helping by spurring that misconception on.
> >
> >>On 9/19/12, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hello everyone, my name is Sarah.  I am bj years old.  I just
> >>> graduated a program called D.P.I.  Davidson Program For
> >>> Independence.  I had to go there because Guide Dogs Of the Desert
> >>> said I had to go.  So I graduated from there, tomorrow I go get
> >>> my first guide dog! My interests are rides, reading, listening to
> >>> tv, dogs and horses
> >>>
> >>>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:32 -0700
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>> sighted societyatsocial gatherings
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> There are quite a few ideas that are universal through out
> >>> cultures.
> >>> For example, it is never socially acceptable to sway in
> >>> conversation.  It is
> >>> only acceptable to rock back and forth mildly when playing guitar
> >>> or more
> >>> heavily when one is studying the old testament as a Jew.
> >>> Otherwise chin up, strait and relaxed stillness for the torso
> >>> almost always.
> >>>
> >>> Also, facial expressions are almost constant through out all
> >>> cultures.  A
> >>> smile is always happy, big eyes are innocents or raised eyebrows,
> >>> big eyes
> >>> with mouth a little open is startled or scared.
> >>> Beckoning is also a very universal gesture with the fist out in
> >>> front facing
> >>> up with the index finger moving up and down like the person is a
> >>> balloon and
> >>> the string is on your finger...
> >>>
> >>> Fit me in or something along that lines is more inclusive because
> >>> it means
> >>> one can ask about fitting in to their theater group, dance teem,
> >>> glee club,
> >>> getting in a relationship, dating...
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure how people are expecting to fit into a sighted
> >>> world without
> >>> some sighted help.
> >>> Although I am guessing that the way the list will pan out is more
> >>> blind
> >>> people asking questions and both blind people and a few TVIs or
> >>> parents will
> >>> help.  I am on a couple lists with quite a few sighted people and
> >>> with
> >>> questions like this they are invaluable...
> >>> Who knew that hugging yourself with your hands in a fist over
> >>> your heart, as
> >>> if you were trying to keep warm, actually looks like you are
> >>> terrified of
> >>> something?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Arielle Silverman
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:24 PM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>> sighted societyat
> >>> social gatherings
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> Sorry to be difficult but I am not willing to join a listserv
> >>> called
> >>> "Being  Socially Acceptable Blind" or "Looking Sighted".  Both
> >>> names
> >>> imply that all sighted people look and act the same  or that
> >>> there is
> >>> only one way to be socially  acceptable; these are notions that,
> >>> frankly, I believe are offensive to blind and sighted people
> >>> both.
> >>> I believe such a listserv should be intended to be a
> >>> nonjudgmental
> >>> forum where blind folks can ask questions or share frustrations
> >>> and
> >>> get supportive answers from blind peers and blind mentors, not a
> >>> place
> >>> where subscribers are told they must look and act a certain way.
> >>> Also,
> >>> while we might let TVI's join if they want, I think the vast
> >>> majority
> >>> of the subscribers should be blind people and we should keep
> >>> teachers
> >>> and authority figures to a minimum.
> >>> I'd support a  name like "blind-fitting in", "blind-social" or
> >>> "blind-dating" perhaps.
> >>> If the group is created with a tolerant, non-judgmental name I'd
> >>> be
> >>> happy to help out with it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>  Names:
> >>>  See me blind (SEM at blah.whatever)
> >>>  Being Socially acceptable blind (SEB)
> >>>  Looking Sighted (LS or LSighted)
> >>>  talk sightless (TSightless)
> >>>
> >>>  Just some names...
> >>>  Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>  Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>  -----Original Message-----
> >>>  From: Desiree Oudinot
> >>>  Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 10:48 AM
> >>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>> sighted
> >>>  societyat
> >>>
> >>>  social gatherings
> >>>
> >>>  That's actually a pretty good idea for a name.  That was the
> >>> only thing
> >>>  holding me back from creating a group, the fact I couldn't
> >>> really
> >>>  think of a name for it.  As for making a website, that would be
> >>> a cool
> >>>  idea too, but I don't know html or anything, so I decided not to
> >>> go
> >>>  that route.
> >>>  Where I was going when I was talking about the different student
> >>>  divisions was that I don't want it to become a point of
> >>> contension on
> >>>  the list.  I don't want people going to war over which
> >>> organization's
> >>>  philosophy prepares people to deal with social and dating
> >>> situations
> >>>  better.  It's fine for people to be part of whatever they so
> >>> choose,
> >>>  but I absolutely will not tolerate stereotypes about either one.
> >>> I
> >>>  want it to be a safe place where people can feel open enough to
> >>>  discuss such uncomfortable and embarrassing topics as their
> >>> social
> >>>  awkwardness.  If someone starts saying that joining the NFB
> >>> would help
> >>>  them be more independent, or that the ACB is crap, well, what
> >>> will
> >>>  that solve? I'm not a member of either, nor do I ever intend on
> >>> doing
> >>>  so, so I feel that I could nip this stuff in the bud if it would
> >>>  happen, and I'm not even saying it necessarily would become a
> >>> problem,
> >>>  it's just something to consider.
> >>>
> >>>  On 9/19/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>  Hello,
> >>>  Frankly I don't know what the difference between the ACB's
> >>> student and
> >>>  NFB's
> >>>
> >>>  student division is.  We are all dealing with exactly the same
> >>> things.  So
> >>>  I
> >>>  really believe we should get our sighted parents, friends and
> >>> whatnot to
> >>>  be
> >>>
> >>>  on the list to answer questions we may have.  Many TVIs would
> >>> jump at the
> >>>  chance to be on a list serve devoted to socializing.
> >>>  Just make a group, possibly:
> >>>  bseb at googlegroups.com or something :).  Being socially
> >>> acceptable blind or
> >>>
> >>>  a
> >>>
> >>>  cooler name LOL...  Any ideas?
> >>>  I even think this should have a website with different articles
> >>> that
> >>>  someone
> >>>
> >>>  can brows to answer any personal questions they may have.
> >>> Because this is
> >>>  such a big issue.
> >>>  Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>  Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>  -----Original Message-----
> >>>  From: Desiree Oudinot
> >>>  Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:29 PM
> >>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>> sighted
> >>>  societyat
> >>>
> >>>  social gatherings
> >>>
> >>>  And this is precisely why I wanted to create a separate list to
> >>>  discuss these kinds of issues and more.  And, at the risk of
> >>> offending
> >>>  people, I wanted it to be a separate list, separate from the NFB
> >>> or
> >>>  ACB, I wanted it to be the place for every blind person, no
> >>> matter
> >>>  their political or social status or whatever, to discuss how
> >>> they fit
> >>>  in with society.  Why does it offend you that blind people,
> >>> whether
> >>>  they be men or women, should try to do their best to interact as
> >>>  sighted people do? Are there really specific guidelines we have
> >>> to
> >>>  follow? I really want to understand this.  I know as well as
> >>> anyone
> >>>  what struggles we have to go through growing up just to be
> >>> treated
> >>>  like human beings.  First, we're blind people, then we're young,
> >>> and
> >>>  the stereotypes surrounding young people of our generation are
> >>> just as
> >>>  crippling as those surrounding being blind.  So being dealt both
> >>> as our
> >>>  hand in life is kind of a double whammy.  I still struggle when
> >>> someone
> >>>  actually treats me as an equal.  I want to run away.
> >>>
> >>>  On 9/14/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>  I've tried to avoid getting into this thread, but here goes:
> >>>  1.  Blind people acting like sighted people scares the crap out
> >>> of
> >>>  me because it just does for some reason.
> >>>  2.  Girls' conformity rules are terrible: for instance, girls
> >>>  shouldn't be scientists.  What does that statement say about us
> >>>  girls?  Girls should be married to men with decent jobs.  No, I
> >>>  will not marry a man with any job so I can be taken care of, and
> >>>  this isn't the friggin' 1800's.  Girls and women can take care
> >>> of
> >>>  themselves, and they can work and support families.  Jason, my
> >>>  current bf, does not work and can't do what society says, be a
> >>>  man and work and get paid for the woman.  Some societies demand
> >>>  that all men work and women stay home.  We, Americans though we
> >>>  are, still have these demands on blind women.  I as a blind
> >>> woman
> >>>  cannot accept conformity or defeat due to womanhood.  Since
> >>> Jason
> >>>  can't work and follow society's rules of manhood, it's up to me
> >>>  to do it.  Girls should not always do typing, nursing, or
> >>>  different "womanly" professions where they get paid less than
> >>>  ordinary men.  Jason, due to his disability, does not work.  I,
> >>>  due to mental illness, may never work.  I want to work so bad,
> >>>  but where?  Goodwill is out of the question.  I'm not working
> >>> for
> >>>  nothing or low wages because I'm a woman.  And no way will I
> >>>  accept sexual harassment because I have breasts and different
> >>>  organs inside me.  I as a blind woman will not accept rules
> >>>  saying "You will be taken care of.  You will be a stay-at-home
> >>>  wife.  You will be poor."  No way.
> >>>  Beth
> >>>
> >>>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>>  From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> >>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>  Date sent: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 20:37:00 -0600
> >>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social norms: how we can fit in with
> >>>  sighted societyat social gatherings
> >>>
> >>>  Chris wrote,
> >>>  Therefore, it is important that we know the unwritten rules
> >>> which
> >>>  our sighted society has made.  If we don't know them and follow
> >>>  them, what does that say about us as blind people? It says we
> >>> are
> >>>  weird, different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.
> >>>
> >>>  Alternatively, perhaps it says that those rules are not natural,
> >>>  that they are the product of sighted people simply aping one
> >>>  another, and that they are arbitrary.  I believe that such
> >>>  unwritten rules often needlessly cause huge amounts of anxiety,
> >>>  self-loathing, and anguish.
> >>>
> >>>  We had a similar discussion on this list some time ago,
> >>>  particularly around the subject of so called "blindisms, and I
> >>>  put that term in quotes as a way of acknowledging that it is
> >>>  pejorative.  I'm sure it could be found on line by anyone who is
> >>>  interested.
> >>>
> >>>  Personally, I would rather live in a world where blind people
> >>> are
> >>>  accepted and respected not simply to the extent that they can
> >>>  look and act like sighted people, but on the grounds that they
> >>>  are human beings possessing dignity and as equally worthy of
> >>>  respect as sighted people.  The message shouldn't be, "hey, we
> >>> can
> >>>  follow your rules, so you should accept us".  Instead, the
> >>> message
> >>>  should be, "we, like you, have many talents and weaknesses, feel
> >>>  pleasure and pain, reach our full potential through the
> >>> formation
> >>>  of deep and meaningful relationships with other human beings,
> >>> and
> >>>  your failure to treat us with respect and as equals is unfair,
> >>>  discriminatory, and immoral", to borrow from Mr.  Lewis.
> >>>
> >>>  By the way, I think this goes well beyond blind people fitting
> >>>  into sighted society.  We are constantly policing one another's
> >>>  behaviour.  Probably one of the more obvious examples of this
> >>> has
> >>>  to do with gender.  There are hundreds if not thousands of
> >>> mostly
> >>>  unspoken rules about what makes a man a man and how real men
> >>>  ought to behave, and there are twice as many concerning women.
> >>>  These rules are enforced in subtle but effective ways, and the
> >>>  result is often a great deal of suffering for anyone who cannot,
> >>>  or chooses not to, conform.  These gender rules are just as
> >>>  arbitrary as those around sighted/blind behaviour, and the
> >>> effort
> >>>  similarly should be to relax and remove such rules, not to more
> >>>  explicitly and fervently teach boys and girls the so called
> >>> right
> >>>  way to act.
> >>>
> >>>  This is of course easier said than done, and failing to conform
> >>>  does unfortunately often result in suffering, such as missed
> >>>  social, volunteer, and employment opportunities.  So I don't
> >>> judge
> >>>  or condemn anyone who makes a serious effort to learn the
> >>>  unwritten rules of sighted society, just as I don't judge
> >>> someone
> >>>  who wants to spend all of his or her time reading medical
> >>>  journals and desperately praying for a cure.  It's hard being
> >>>  blind in the particular society in which we live, and conforming
> >>>  can make things a little bit easier.  But I still think we
> >>> should
> >>>  work more on changing attitudes and less on teaching blind
> >>> people
> >>>  how to look and act like sighted people.
> >>>
> >>>  Regards,
> >>>
> >>>  Marc
> >>>  On 2012-09-14, at 3:04 PM, Chris Nusbaum
> >>>  <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   Hi Brandon and all,
> >>>
> >>>   I'm taking the liberty here to change the subject of this
> >>>  thread, as if we're going to discuss the topic which Brandon has
> >>>  brought up in his post, I think it would prevent confusion if we
> >>>  changed the subject to reflect the actual topic of Brandon's
> >>>  message.
> >>>
> >>>   Brandon, your idea about the NFB conducting some kind of
> >>>  instructional seminar or workshop on social norms and how we can
> >>>  "fit in" with the sighted public is a great one! I think you
> >>>  should talk with the NFB leadership about this! I believe NOPBC
> >>>  (the parents division) has touched on this topic in their
> >>>  seminars at conventions.  One of the topics at the parents
> >>>  seminar at the Maryland state convention is almost always social
> >>>  skills, especially what sighted society has deemed socially
> >>>  acceptable and how we as blind people can fit in at social
> >>>  gatherings, conforming as best we can to the "norms" of society.
> >>>  I believe this is arguably more important for blind students, as
> >>>  we are often in social gatherings (or want to be in them) at our
> >>>  schools, with our friends, or in our communities.  Therefore, it
> >>>  is important  that we know the unwritten rules which our sighted
> >>>  society has made.  If we don't know them and follow them, what
> >>>  does that say about us as blind people? It says we are weird,
> >>>  different, abnormal, incompetent, dependent, etc.  These are the
> >>>  very adjectives we in the Federation have been working to cut
> >>> out
> >>>  from the vocabulary of the public when in the context of
> >>>  blindness and blind people.  In other words, these are the very
> >>>  things we don't want sighted people thinking about us.  If this
> >>>  is how sighted people perceive us, then it puts our ability to
> >>>  get a job, volunteer in our community, and become first-class
> >>>  citizens at risk.  So, I think this would be a great thing for
> >>>  the NFB to do, and one which I'm kind of surprised we're not
> >>>  doing already.  Also, since this is an important topic for blind
> >>>  students, perhaps "social skills and norms" could be the topic
> >>> of
> >>>  a future NABS membership call.
> >>>
> >>>   Just my thoughts,
> >>>
> >>>   Chris
> >>>
> >>>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>>   From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>>   To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>   Date sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:15:16 -0700
> >>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>>   Hello,
> >>>   We aren't promoting sex among students, we are promoting safe
> >>>  sex.  There is
> >>>   a huge difference.  If the student division is the only one
> >>> with
> >>>  some
> >>>   practical sense about sexual activities, I'm a little scared...
> >>>  :)
> >>>   I do agree though, sex, dating and excepted socializing among a
> >>>  sighted
> >>>   community is a very big topic that is often times ignored by
> >>> the
> >>>  blind
> >>>   community.
> >>>   I have been told by sighted TVIs that many blind folks (youth
> >>> or
> >>>  not) have
> >>>   some very strange mannerisms and beliefs that are totally
> >>>  against the grain
> >>>   of sighted society.  My mom in particular, who is a TVI, has
> >>>  suggested that
> >>>   the NFB should really give some instruction on how the sighted
> >>>  world thinks.
> >>>   Otherwise what will happen (and what has happened) is the world
> >>>  looks at a
> >>>   gathering of blind people and cringes because they are so
> >>> weird.
> >>>  or a
> >>>   sighted girl sees a blind guy and thinks she wants to talk to
> >>>  him and when
> >>>   she is about to sit down and say hi, the guy does something
> >>>  really weird and
> >>>   she turns around and walks a mile away.
> >>>   This is a little different than the deal with the condoms, but
> >>>  both sexual
> >>>   health and social issues are topics that are very much in need
> >>>  of attention
> >>>   among blind individuals, and students in particular.
> >>>   I feel strongly that having some active workshops on this that
> >>>  aren't meant
> >>>   to be uncomfortable, but still deal with the taboo problems
> >>>  would greatly
> >>>   improve convention.
> >>>   Thank you,
> >>>
> >>>   Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>   -----Original Message-----
> >>>   From: Arielle Silverman
> >>>   Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:18 PM
> >>>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>>   Hi all,
> >>>   I have joked in the past about how NABS should sell Brailled
> >>>  Whozit
> >>>   condoms at convention! Kidding aside, though, there are
> >>> probably
> >>>  some
> >>>   NFB leaders with more conservative leanings, who might feel
> >>> that
> >>>  NABS
> >>>   selling condoms at convention would be promoting sexual
> >>> activity
> >>>  among
> >>>   young or unmarried blind students.  I don't agree with that
> >>>  position,
> >>>   but some people do and since anything NABS does is, by
> >>>  extension, an
> >>>   NFB-sanctioned event, we would need to balance the benefits of
> >>>   providing condoms against possibly upsetting the NFB leadership
> >>>  or
> >>>   bringing on an unwanted political debate.
> >>>   I would be more likely to support a NABS breakout session, at
> >>>   Washington Seminar or elsewhere, about sexuality in general,
> >>> and
> >>>   perhaps include an opportunity to try putting a condom on the
> >>>   proverbial banana or some such.  When I was 15, I went to a
> >>>  diversity
> >>>   camp (for sighted teens) and there was a sexuality workshop
> >>>  available
> >>>   as one of several choices.  They passed around condoms and in
> >>>  fact,
> >>>   this was the first time I actually felt one.  A general
> >>> workshop
> >>>  about
> >>>   sex, dating and etiquette, etc.  might be worth having.
> >>>   Arielle
> >>>
> >>>   On 9/10/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>   Hello,
> >>>   This would be an awesome idea! Not only because many people
> >>> have
> >>>  never
> >>>   seen
> >>>
> >>>   a condom, so they could finger the packages with labels without
> >>>  having to
> >>>   be
> >>>
> >>>   embarrassed, but when I was at the hotel I didn't run into any
> >>>  condoms in
> >>>   the store.  Granted I wasn't looking for them, but I was
> >>>  browsing...
> >>>   Condoms,
> >>>
> >>>   lube and Dental Dams, all labeled in Braille! We would also
> >>>  probably need
> >>>   to
> >>>
> >>>   provide guides for people on how to find the right way to put
> >>> on
> >>>  a condom
> >>>   or
> >>>
> >>>   use a dental dam.
> >>>   Another thing I didn't see at the NABS table is hot serial.
> >>> The
> >>>  packing
> >>>   guide in the nabs newsletter  said to pack a ton of things and
> >>> I
> >>>  for one
> >>>   don't keep hot serial in the house and I don't shop at places
> >>>  that sell
> >>>   hot
> >>>
> >>>   serial, so wasn't able to grab a box.  But I would have loved
> >>> to
> >>>  buy a box
> >>>   for even $10 or more, the breakfasts there were $10 alone...
> >>>  (Then of
> >>>   course
> >>>
> >>>   we could sell bole and spoon packs for the poor folks who
> >>> didn't
> >>>  bring
> >>>   their
> >>>
> >>>   own utensil's).
> >>>   Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>   Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>   -----Original Message-----
> >>>   From: Anmol Bhatia
> >>>   Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 8:28 AM
> >>>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   You would be a good place to sell and buy condoms? At the NFB
> >>>   convention...
> >>>
> >>>   Perhaps Nabs should sell condoms at the NABS table.  We can
> >>> even
> >>>  braille
> >>>   them
> >>>
> >>>   so the perso can know what kind of condoms they have.  lol
> >>>
> >>>   Anmol
> >>>
> >>>   I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> >>> sad.
> >>>  Perhaps
> >>>   there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> >>>  like a breeze
> >>>   among flowers.
> >>>   Hellen Keller
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> >>>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>   To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "National Association of Blind Students
> >>>  mailing
> >>>   list"
> >>>
> >>>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>   Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:54 PM
> >>>   Hi, Brandon,
> >>>
> >>>   I went into a place in Denver to  buy a dildo yes, on
> >>>   the bigger, ribbed side to use in the old fashioned bath tub
> >>>   I had at the time, to get myself off with the faucet.
> >>>   Traditionally, I need something in my ass, to cum.  If I
> >>>   remember, the folks in their wer very cool, look at the
> >>>   blind girl going to by herself a dildo! Don't worry! If
> >>>   you're relaxed, and cool about what you're doing so will be
> >>>   the bookstore, personnel.  Let us know how goes it,
> >>>   okay?  At 04:52 PM 9/8/2012, SA Mobile wrote:
> >>>   Those are the best places to get stuff as the staff are
> >>>   professional and are trained to make customers feel at ease.
> >>>   Just make sure the shop is of good repute.
> >>>
> >>>   Respectfully,
> >>>   Jedi
> >>>
> >>>   Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>   On 08/09/2012, at 12:36 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> >>>   <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> >>>   wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   Hello,
> >>>   Thank goodness my father was a nurse and when I
> >>>   turned 18, he said addio to being in with me at the doctor.
> >>>   I do find it amusing though that some doctors are actually
> >>>   really uncomfortable touching me because I'm blind...  That
> >>>   only happened after my dad started leaving the room.
> >>>   Thank you Arielle for those websites.  I don't feel
> >>>   that condoms are something I want to buy from a website I've
> >>>   never heard of before unless someone I know has gotten or
> >>>   knows that site is trust worthy.
> >>>   I was told that flavored condoms were only to be
> >>>   used in oral intercourse.  The same is not for lube I
> >>>   presume?
> >>>   Also, has anyone ever gone into a sex store? How
> >>>   was it as a blind shopper? Even from sighted people I hear
> >>>   the experience is often not pleasant.
> >>>   Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>   Brandon Keith Biggs
> >>>   -----Original Message----- From: Arielle
> >>>   Silverman
> >>>   Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:00 AM
> >>>   To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>   Subject: [nabs-l] condoms and Sexual Health
> >>>
> >>>   Hi all,
> >>>   I know the recent discussions about sex and dating
> >>>   are kind of in a
> >>>   gray area as to whether or not they're on-topic
> >>>   for this list, since
> >>>   most of the issues Koby brought up are not really
> >>>   unique to blindness.
> >>>   So if the moderators or Dave feel this is getting
> >>>   too far afield, I
> >>>   will happily respect your judgment.  However, I
> >>>   also think that
> >>>   Brandon's question about where to get condoms is a
> >>>   legitimate one and
> >>>   that there might be other blind people out here,
> >>>   including teenagers,
> >>>   who have similar concerns about how to get
> >>>   condoms, birth control or
> >>>   sexual health information without a lot of
> >>>   awkwardness or
> >>>   embarrassment.  It can be particularly difficult if
> >>>   you have to depend
> >>>   on someone else (especially parents) for
> >>>   transportation which can make
> >>>   going to a clinic or drugstore difficult.
> >>>   There are a few places to buy condoms online,
> >>>   including
> >>>   www.condomania.com
> >>>   www.undercovercondoms.com
> >>>   and
> >>>   www.condomdepot.com
> >>>   Believe it or not, they also have some condom
> >>>   choices at
> >>>   www.amazon.com
> >>>   If you go to your health center on campus for any
> >>>   reason, it shouldn't
> >>>   be a problem  to ask a doctor or nurse there
> >>>   about condoms.
> >>>   I cannot answer the questions about when to begin
> >>>   having sex with a
> >>>   partner because that is a highly individual
> >>>   decision.  However, I feel
> >>>   it important that anyone who is considering having
> >>>   sex for the first
> >>>   time ensure you understand what all of your
> >>>   options are for preventing
> >>>   pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases, the
> >>>   advantages and
> >>>   disadvantages of each option, and the proper way
> >>>   to use condoms  and
> >>>   birth control.  There are  a couple different
> >>>   websites with this kind
> >>>   of information:
> >>>   www.plannedparenthood.org
> >>>   (includes live chat with a sexual health educator)
> >>>   or
> >>>   www.scarleteen.com
> >>>   This issue is particularly close to my heart at
> >>>   the moment because my
> >>>   boyfriend's sister just had an unintended
> >>>   pregnancy at a very
> >>>   inopportune time (while still in college, with a
> >>>   guy she had only
> >>>   known for a few months) and was apparently taking
> >>>   birth control pills,
> >>>   but had not been taking them consistently.  While I
> >>>   don't believe that
> >>>   sex  should be feared, it is something that
> >>>   takes some responsibility,
> >>>   planning and foresight to ensure it is enjoyable
> >>>   while minimizing the
> >>>   risks.  Also, while I won't go into details here,
> >>>   there are other ways
> >>>   to be physically intimate with someone that are
> >>>   less risky, which
> >>>   these online forums will talk about.
> >>>   I also want to bring up  an issue that is
> >>>   somewhat relevant to sexual
> >>>   health, which I experienced and I think that some
> >>>   of you might also be
> >>>   struggling with.  This is the issue of having your
> >>>   parents drive you to
> >>>   doctors' appointments and then having them want to
> >>>   sit in or even
> >>>   participate in your appointments.  Since I attended
> >>>   college in my home
> >>>   city, my mother always wanted to drive me to my
> >>>   doctors' appointments
> >>>   and would then want to come in and chat with the
> >>>   doctor while he/she
> >>>   was examining me.  This was partly because my
> >>>   parents and I saw many of
> >>>   the same doctors and she often thought it was a
> >>>   good opportunity to
> >>>   ask the doctor a quick question about her own
> >>>   health while she was
> >>>   there, or because she was curious to see what the
> >>>   doctor recommended
> >>>   to me about a particular issue.  I eventually
> >>>   realized that while it
> >>>   wasn't ill-intentioned, it was a violation of my
> >>>   privacy as an adult
> >>>   patient and I asked her to wait in the waiting
> >>>   room while I was seeing
> >>>   the doctor.  I didn't actually take this stand
> >>>   until I was 21 and in
> >>>   hindsight I wish I had done  it much earlier.
> >>>   By the time you are 18,
> >>>   unless you have a serious cognitive disability,
> >>>   you have a right to
> >>>   privacy of your medical information and it is
> >>>   important to establish a
> >>>   good doctor-patient relationship without a third
> >>>   person interfering.
> >>>   This is especially true when it comes to sexual
> >>>   health and by the time
> >>>   you are 18 or even 16, you will want to start
> >>>   discussing your sexual
> >>>   activities or questions with your doctors without
> >>>   your parents being
> >>>   around.  You might also want to consider getting a
> >>>   driver or even
> >>>   taking the bus to medical appointments to avoid
> >>>   this problem.
> >>>   On a related note, by the time you are in high
> >>>   school, you should know
> >>>   the names of all medications you take on  a
> >>>   regular basis and any
> >>>   chronic medical conditions you may have.  If you
> >>>   ever have to go to the
> >>>   emergency room, this kind  of information may
> >>>   be requested of you.
> >>>   Best,
> >>>   Arielle
> >>>
> >>>   _______________________________________________
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> >>>   iggs%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
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