[nabs-l] Lines

Mon Apr 1 05:14:01 UTC 2013

I don't remember high school well, but I've worked for several years in jobs
which did not appreciate my skills.  Give me a weapon and I will use it.
My skills are uqite good.  I train in the arts martial, but I would still
use a weapon first.  Never put down your tools.  
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:56 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines

Justin,
  I don't know your situation, so I can't really say you're right or wrong.
However, I can say that taking extra time in high school, at least for me,
gave me the delusion that my skills were at the level they needed to be and
that I could rely on special priviliges to get me by.  I can tell you that
that attitude, which I fostered but which was certainly reinforced by me
taking extra time every chance I possibly could, did me a real disservice
once I started college and, all of a sudden, I could see that my abilities
weren't all that I had convinced myself they were.  In my mind, although we
should of course use the tools at our disposal, we should handle them with
care, lest they become double-edged swords and end up hurting us more than
they help.
  Best,
Kirt

On 4/1/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have only used time extensions when I was either using tactile 
> diagrams or when I got a late start on a test because of a technology 
> problem. In the former case, with the tactile diagrams, I don't think 
> the extra time helped my test performance very much. I tended to spend 
> the extra time agonizing over questions when I couldn't understand the 
> tactile diagrams, and would just take longer to guess the wrong 
> answer. If I could have done it over again I would have either asked 
> for more guided practice reading the tactile diagrams or just asked 
> for verbal descriptions instead. In high school geometry I not only 
> got extra time, but my teacher sometimes allowed me to "make up" test 
> points by re-taking the test orally without the picture questions. I 
> ended up getting an A in that class and in hindsight, I think I 
> deserved a B and should have been given one. While my mathematical 
> understanding of geometry was very good, I had a clear struggle with 
> interpreting tactile diagrams and that's something that they should 
> have tried to address instead of just band-Aiding it with extra time 
> and extra credit points. If I'd been given a B or even a C based on 
> the points I earned, tactile diagram training might have been put on 
> my IEP. True, we don't usually encounter tactile pictures in everyday 
> life, but on standardized math tests that's often the only option, and 
> I believe that my math SAT and GRE scores could have been higher if I 
> had been forced to practice reading those diagrams in a more 
> systematic way. Extra time on those tests didn't help me much at all.
> (I eventually worked on this with a GRE tutor and I did improve a 
> little bit, but it was slow going and perhaps if I'd done it in middle 
> or high school it would have been easier). I think the Band-Aid issue 
> is even worse when extra time is given to people with slow Braille 
> reading speeds without any attention to training faster reading. Since 
> I learned Braille in preschool, I never needed extended time for 
> verbal tests or math tests not involving diagrams, and my TVI and 
> teachers always praised how fast I was. It is sad that my finishing 
> the tests at a typical speed has to be such a surprise just because I 
> use Braille. As I have stated here before, I think that time 
> extensions for students in K-12 education have to be handled on a 
> case-by-case basis, but I think it's really important that any time 
> extensions be coupled with individualized training in whatever skill 
> the student is struggling with enough to need the time extension. Of 
> course, in today's world of overworked TVI's, that is unlikely to 
> actually happen.
> I don't take tests anymore since I'm all-but-dissertation now, but if 
> I did I think I'd only use the extra time if I got a late start on the 
> test because of a technology issue or if I was working with a reader 
> and had to go over answer choices multiple times, which does 
> inherently take up more time than reading the answers independently in 
> Braille or print.
> Arielle
>
> On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Justin,
>>   In high school I took the extra time way more than I should have; 
>> in hindsight, I was using it to hide the fact that I wasn't as 
>> efficient with braille as my peers were with print.  I know this is 
>> an entirely different subject, but I think extra time is legitimate 
>> only when inherently visual information like pictures and complex 
>> graphs need to be presented tactally or verbally.  Even then, it 
>> ought to be used with care because, as has been said ad noseum, you 
>> can't get the "time and a half" on the job.
>>   Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Do you take the time and a half on tests?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle 
>>> Silverman
>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:04 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Lines
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Thank you Kirt for making such a great point. When I was growing up 
>>> my parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so 
>>> that we could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it 
>>> without giving me a choice about it. I used to try and justify our 
>>> behavior but in  the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense 
>>> of shame and anger, but I could never figure out why. Since then I 
>>> have learned about self-perception theory in psychology classes and 
>>> I think I understand why it bothers me (and many of
>>> us) so much. Basically, self-perception theory posits that we draw 
>>> conclusions about ourselves by observing our own behavior. I think 
>>> whenever I used my blindness as a reason to get a guest pass and 
>>> skip the line, it made me start to see myself as a handicapped or 
>>> crippled person, which was very upsetting. For some people who have 
>>> trouble standing for long periods of time, or who have guide dogs 
>>> who get uncomfortable standing out in the sun, cutting in line seems 
>>> legitimate. But if we can physically handle the lines, accepting the 
>>> special passes doesn't do us any real favors. I insist on standing 
>>> in line with everyone else because I want to see myself (and my 
>>> fellow blind friends) as strong, healthy, normal people. I feel I 
>>> have little to gain by skipping the lines, and much to lose in terms 
>>> of self-esteem and self-respect. I think every time we take an 
>>> accommodation, we need to think about what we are gaining from that 
>>> accommodation vs.
>>> what
>>> we are potentially losing in terms of normalcy. If an accommodation 
>>> like a piece of technology is  truly necessary, it will give enough 
>>> benefit that it's worth the self-esteem hit. But if an accommodation 
>>> isn't really needed, I think we have more to lose than we have to 
>>> gain by accepting it. For this same reason I also do not write off 
>>> blindness as a reason to claim a tax deduction.
>>> I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required to 
>>> pay taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income 
>>> bracket makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the 
>>> world.
>>> There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same 
>>> rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the extra 
>>> responsibilities. If we want to be allowed to ride amusement park 
>>> rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in line.
>>> It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on equal 
>>> treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed message 
>>> to request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a 
>>> professor's letter of recommendation.
>>> Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is a 
>>> legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
>>> Arielle
>>>
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>>
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