[nabs-l] guide dogs and their handlers was canes and water park rides
Desiree Oudinot
turtlepower17 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 2 20:33:49 UTC 2013
Kurt,
I won't try to discredit your experiences, since personal experience
is about as subjective as anything can be. I'll explain how I came to
the conclusion I described above, though, which is equally as
subjective.
When I was in high school, I had a mobility instructor who basically
glorified the idea of having a guide dog in the way that you and
others have described. She told me that a dog helps you become more
confident in your travel skills, makes you stick out less, etc. I was
very skeptical about everything she said, because, in my experience,
whether you have a cane or dog, you're considered "different" by
society, and, therefore, sticking out is just par for the course. So,
even through her overzealous efforts to convert me to believing that a
dog is the ultimate answer to every travel conundrum, she did tell me
that no guide dog school would accept a person whose cane skills
weren't great. In hindsight, I believe she was saying all this to put
me down about my cane skills, which weren't that bad at all. my
problem has always been visualizing maps in my head, in fact. Mobility
instructors always plopped maps they made in front of me, turning them
this way and that to try to get me to understand how the streets would
look once you turned in a specific compass direction. That method of
teaching confused the hell out of me. So, she started to believe I was
a hopeless case, I guess. To this day, I still am primarily a route
traveler, but I wonder sometimes if I really have as much of a faulty
brain as I was told (she wanted to have me tested for learning
disabilities, which my mom wouldn't hear of) or if I just didn't learn
about cardinal directions and maps in such a way that I could
understand. I should also point out that classes like geometry always
completely baffled me, and when I was in elementary school, when we
used to do geography and had to estimate how many miles or kilometers
one place on a map was from another, I failed miserably.
Anyway, one day this mobility instructor decided to do a guide dog
simulation with me, to help convert me to her way of thinking, I
suppose. I held onto a harness, and without any warning, she started
flat-out running. When I asked her why, she said it was because all
guide dogs and their handlers walk at a brisk pace. Fine, but I don't
think they sprint as if they're trying to win the 50-yard dash! After
I pointed this out, she got pretty snippy with me. Snide remarks about
my travel skills became the order of the day from then on.
So, what this taught me was that one had to live up to a high standard
if they wanted to get a dog. I didn't want one, but, perhaps
mistakenly, I believed this to be the case. This is why it was
interesting for me to read your perspective, and watch this discussion
unfold, because I honestly thought that all guide dog handlers were
competent and confident travelers. Of course, as with everything else,
there would have to be exceptions, and I did know of one lady in
particular who worked her dog practically until the day it died,
despite the dog developing severe arthritis. But, as i said, I thought
that was so far out of the norm that I chalked it up to the lady
being, shall we say, not a very nice person, as opposed to being so
set in her ways that maybe she felt unable to travel without the dog
she had come to depend on.
On 4/2/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Desiree,
> I've noticed that "stellar" means different things to different
> people. While I don't doubt that the top guide dog schools have
> minimum standards for their applicants, I've seen plenty of friends go
> to guide dog schools (even seeing eye and geb), who were not confident
> cane travelers. Yes, they could cross familiar streets safely and
> knew their way around the places they knew well, but nothing beyond
> that. For me, and you can certainly disagree intelligently if you
> like, but that's only a small part of solid travel skills. In my
> mind, mobility isn't just about getting from point A to B to C and so
> forth. It's about going wherever you want, whenever you want,
> regardless of if you know the area already. Routes are nice but, to
> me, competent travelers should be able to make their own routes, as
> well as travel wherever they like and not necessarily be bound by any
> specific route. That's something that I don't think most dog users I
> know or, for that matter, most blind people are comfortable with.
> I'll illustrate with a few examples; I want all of you to understand
> that I'm not trying to say that I have these super awesome mobility
> skills because, compared to lots of competent blind travelers I know,
> I still have a long way to go. I'm not great at memorizing maps and
> following set routes, especially in big buildings, but I still feel
> like I get where I want to go when I want to be there, and I don't
> have to rely on someone to take me or show me around (even though I
> can see how some very competent people would do that, and that's
> fine.) But, just this last week, I was in Las Vegas for a student
> seminar and a few of my new friends invited me to go to dinner at such
> and such a restaurant across the street and a couple blocks down. I
> politely declined because I felt tired but, about a half hour later, I
> changed my mind and decided it was better to go late than not at all.
> With only the restaurant name and address as reference, and my GPS
> giving me periodic announcements of my rough location, I walked over
> there without any trouble and had a great dinner. Incidentally, after
> staying there for a little while I noticed how tired I was so I walked
> back to the hotel by myself and, aside from being approached by a few
> harmless drunk people, had no problem whatsoever. A couple days later
> I spent a few hours walking up and down the Las Vegas strip (an area I
> certainly was not familiar with at all), discovered that slot machines
> are a phenominal waste of money, and walked back to my hotel a totally
> different way than I came, just for the hell of it. It's sad how
> incredible and amazing most people would think that was and, to me,
> it's even sadder that most blind people I know (even most with good
> cane skills and the ability to follow routes to the letter), would
> probably not even try to do something like that, even if they wanted
> to.
> Now, of course you can say that most people, blind or sighted, don't
> really spend that much time in unfamiliar environments and that's a
> good point. Still, having the ability and the freedom to do something
> like that, even though I don't get the chance near as often as I'd
> like, has been an enormous confidence booster for me once I realized I
> had that ability, even though there is really nothing special or
> earth-shattering about my travel skills. I'm aware I like exploring
> new places more than most people, blind or sighted, and I'm not asking
> everybody to agree with me. You don't have to be a Federationist, or
> use a long straight cane or have this huge passion for always finding
> new places like I do in order to be an independent, competent blind
> person. Still, I can't deny that my own individual philosophy and
> personality has shaped my opinions on the matter, and I have to
> acknowledge that I hold to those opinions passionately and vehemently.
> Anyways, my jaws demo is going to run out any second, so I have to
> write fast. :) At least, I hopek, you can understand where I'm
> coming from on this, as I try to do with the people who see it
> differently than I do.
> All the best,
> Kirt
>
> On 4/2/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kurt,
>> Your experience with guide dog handlers is interesting. Before I go on
>> to my main point, I just want to say that I, too, am a proud cane
>> user, and I never intend on getting a dog. I never cared for dogs all
>> that much, even when I was a kid. Let's just say that I've been around
>> one too many poorly trained dogs in my lifetime, and some of the
>> things they do are frankly disgusting. I've also been around several
>> well-behaved guide dogs, but my childhood experiences do take
>> precedence. That, and dogs smell, and that's not something I can
>> really get used to, even though I know they can't help it.
>> now, to my point. I was always under the impression that in order for
>> a person to even be accepted into a guide dog school, their cane
>> skills had to be stellar. I've always heard about how if your existing
>> cane and route traveling skills are subpar, you won't get a dog,
>> simple as that. While they would hone a few rusty skills along the
>> way, if time permits, they can't do everything, nor do they feel they
>> should.
>> I guess, like everything else, not all guide dog schools are created
>> equal. Most people who have said this to me have either gone to the
>> Seeing Eye in New Jersey or GEB in New York. From what I understand,
>> those are the top two guide dog schools, anyway, so it wouldn't
>> surprise me that their standards were way up there, not that they
>> shouldn't be. Logic dictates that you shouldn't be able to take your
>> dog everywhere you need to go. Dogs get sick, or maybe you want to go
>> to a loud concert, or, yes, an amusement park. I agree that dogs don't
>> really belong there, especially on particularly brutal summer days.
>>
>> On 4/2/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Justin,
>>> Exactly. For me, and I'm only speaking for myself, but being forced
>>> to take my dog wherever I went, or not being able to leave him home
>>> when the situation seemed to warrant it, doesn't appear to work all
>>> that well. I'm going to make a generalization, and I realize there
>>> are plenty of acceptions to what I'm about to say. Still, I think
>>> it's worth mentioning, if for no other reason than because it really
>>> applied to me personally. Also, I should probably say that I'm not
>>> lumping Sarah or anybody else specific on this list into what I'm
>>> about to say because...well, I don't know most of you in real life, so
>>> who am I to judge?
>>> Still, I've seen lots of blind people who get dogs because their
>>> mobility skills aren't up to par and they want a cure. I have plenty
>>> of friends and acquaintances who use dogs because they don't feel
>>> confident in their ability to travel without them; sadly, to me, this
>>> seems the rule more than the exception. It kind of makes my heart
>>> hurt a little bit when I see friends shy away from new places and
>>> experiences just because their dogs prefer to stay in familiar areas.
>>> Again, from what I've seen, this seems to be what happens more often
>>> than not. I'm not saying a dog isn't a legitimate option; I can see
>>> the advantages of traveling with one and, while they aren't enough to
>>> convince me to become a dog user, they are certainly real. I'm just
>>> saying that, if someone isn't a confident and comfortable traveler
>>> already, having a dog won't magically make up for it. Sadly, many (if
>>> not most) guide dog users I know weren't confident travelers to begin
>>> with, so they got a dog instead of getting quality training. Of
>>> course, I know a whole bunch of cane users with the same problem, so
>>> it's certainly not the dog's fault if the handler can't get where
>>> he/she needs to go. I guess all I'm saying, and I'm sure most
>>> competent dog users will wholeheartedly agree, is that getting a good
>>> dog is no substitute for getting good training...but now I'm wondering
>>> what any of this has to do with riding rollercoasters and water
>>> slides. :)
>>> Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Cane, dog, what works.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>>>> Manwaring
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:44 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>
>>>> Sarah,
>>>> I know I'm going to spark an age-old debate, and possibly get
>>>> reprimanded for being off-topic, but I don't really care right now. I
>>>> don't mean this condescendingly or judgmentally...but, Sarah, the next
>>>> time someone asks me why I'm not a dog user, I want to have your
>>>> e-mails on hand because they would make my case far better than I
>>>> possibly could. (and, yes, I'm aware how ironic this will sound to
>>>> anybody who remembers the stir I created a while back because I wanted
>>>> to get a dog and bring him...or her...or whatever to a training
>>>> center.)
>>>> And, please, before anybody gets their knickers all twisted up over
>>>> this, I'm definitely not anti-dog. I know some fantastic travelers
>>>> who happen to be dog users; I also know some terrible travelers who
>>>> happen to use canes instead. My point is simply that, having the
>>>> personality I do where I want to wait my turn like most everyone else,
>>>> and hearing the kinds of stories I do from Sarah and from most dog
>>>> users I'm acquainted with about how ansy/skiddish/uncomfortable/needy
>>>> their dogs are, I'm pretty darn sure I made the right decision for
>>>> myself. This isn't a condemnation, much as some people might construe
>>>> it as one. Canes can certainly bring issues of their own...but my
>>>> straight cane won't have a panic attack if I decide to leave it at
>>>> home and take my folding cane instead, and vice-versa.
>>>> Anyways, sorry for the rambling...I'm trying to find every possible
>>>> excuse I can to distract me from my political science homework,
>>>> because Plato's Republic is really hurting my fragile little head
>>>> right now. :) I really didn't mean this as a knock against competent
>>>> dog-users or, really, against Sarah at all. I just meant to say how
>>>> stories like this reinforce my belief that, in choosing not to get a
>>>> guide dog, I think I made the right decision for me.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 4/1/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> i can't leave Wizard hoc alone when I go to parks he freaks out
>>>>> when I leave him for a few hours to go to a friend's house.
>>>>> Besides his trainers told me to none leave him alone unsupervised
>>>>> for more than an hour inr 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:08:50 -0700
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you shouldn't bring Wizard under those circumstances?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:32 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not making my guide dog wait 4 hours for one ride in the
>>>>> uncomfortable
>>>>> hot weather. Besides, all the ride operators know me at the park
>>>>> anyways.
>>>>> I never waited in line before I did for like 2 hours because X2
>>>>> broke down
>>>>> and sy had to replace a wheel.
>>>>> But I'm not making Wizard wait in line er 4 hours for each ride.
>>>>> It's like 2 or 4 hours for each ride and I bought an immediate
>>>>> boarding
>>>>> pass. All I have to do is show the paper I bought to the
>>>>> operator if they
>>>>> don't know me already, and they let me on.
>>>>> People are just jealous because they can't do it!
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:18:14 -0600
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah,
>>>>> I know you're going to get a lot of flack for what you just
>>>>> said, so I'll
>>>>> do my best to be gentle. I know each person's situation is
>>>>> different, so
>>>>> I'm not judging every blind person who chooses to take that extra
>>>>> perk and
>>>>> cut through line; for all I know, there really is some other
>>>>> disability or
>>>>> legitimate need for that accommodation with some of us, so
>>>>> farbeit from me
>>>>> to condemn everyone wholesale for making that choice. Still, and
>>>>> I feel
>>>>> very strongly about this, if you are capable of waiting in line
>>>>> with
>>>>> everybody else, you should.
>>>>> Period. In the past, there have been a few times where I've
>>>>> caved in to
>>>>> family pressure and broken my own rule; I'm not proud of it, I
>>>>> don't always
>>>>> measure up to my own standards here, but I nevertheless believe
>>>>> very
>>>>> passionately that we should not take "accommodation"
>>>>> where we do not need it. If you had no real need to cut in line,
>>>>> and it
>>>>> sounds like you didn't if you've been able to wait in long lines
>>>>> before (if
>>>>> I'm wrong please forgive me), you shouldn't have.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> my opinion, I'm not trying to be harsh because I've certainly
>>>>> skipped in
>>>>> line a few times before (and invariably felt ashamed afterwords),
>>>>> but
>>>>> accommodation is only real accommodation if it serves a real
>>>>> need.
>>>>> We have enough real needs already to go around taking advantage
>>>>> of things
>>>>> that just aren't necessary. Not only is it a waste but it can,
>>>>> if we aren't
>>>>> careful, send totally the wrong message about blindness.
>>>>> Our reputation as people who take and take, without giving back,
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> entirely unjustified. If we want to be treated equally, we
>>>>> _have_ to have
>>>>> it both ways. If we want equal treatment, we have equal
>>>>> responsibility.
>>>>> Much as this might seem menial, or irrelevant to the larger
>>>>> problems we
>>>>> face, waiting in lines is a drudgery that we ought to accept
>>>>> cheerfully (or
>>>>> at least grudgingly) if we really want equal access to amusement
>>>>> parks. I
>>>>> think, for many blind people, the attitude which says it's okay
>>>>> to cut in
>>>>> line even though we could wait like everyone else is indicative
>>>>> of a far,
>>>>> far larger problem. I am, of course, referring to the idea that
>>>>> we are
>>>>> entitled to special treatment and superior, not equal access. We
>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>> phrase it that way...but when we're asking for unnecessary
>>>>> extended time for
>>>>> assignments (I'm not implying that all extended time is
>>>>> unnecessary),
>>>>> demanding the right to a dedicated person to take our notes for
>>>>> us, begging
>>>>> rehab for every piece of the newest and greatest technology and,
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> cutting in lines at amusement parks...isn't that what we're
>>>>> really saying?
>>>>> Just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/1/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> So they let you cut through the line with a dog, but not with a
>>>>> cane?
>>>>> Interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:40 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> Because with my dog, they let me right on, and they watch the
>>>>> dog very
>>>>> carefully even when someone else is holding it so nobody pets it
>>>>> while
>>>>> you're on the ride. With a cane, they will just say "Wait 4
>>>>> hours like
>>>>> everyone else."
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:26:25 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just curious: how is Six Flags more accommodating to a guide dog
>>>>> user than
>>>>> to a cane user?
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Sarah Meeks
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:56 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> My best amusement park experience has always been Six Flags.
>>>>> They are very
>>>>> accommodating. There you are more accommodating now that I have
>>>>> a dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>>>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yay for Disney! they were by far my best park experience. I
>>>>> went twice
>>>>> as a little kid. The first time I went I was five or six and my
>>>>> parents
>>>>> also had a baby in a stroller, so the practice for both me and my
>>>>> sister
>>>>> was to hold onto our brother's stroller to keep with our parents
>>>>> and not
>>>>> get lost. My parents just gave me verbal direction and were
>>>>> with me the
>>>>> entire time, so there really wasn't a major need for a cane.
>>>>> When I went
>>>>> again as an older kid though, I did have a folding cane and the
>>>>> Disney
>>>>> staff was very good about either showing me tricks to keep it
>>>>> with me or
>>>>> holding it and then giving it back to me when I got off, even on
>>>>> water
>>>>> rides like Splash Mountain and the Pirates of the Caribbean
>>>>> rides which
>>>>> start in one place and end at another. If you have a folding
>>>>> cane you can
>>>>> secure it folded with the loop and then put your wrist through
>>>>> the cane
>>>>> and the strap and just let it hang as you hold onto something.
>>>>> It won't
>>>>> flop around as much as the telescopic cane. Also, the holster
>>>>> idea sounds
>>>>> good, although some park personelle at other amusement parks
>>>>> get worried
>>>>> about it coming lose. Either way, you shouldn't have any
>>>>> problems with
>>>>> getting the ride people to bring you your cane at the ride exit.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, Universal Studios was excellent about working with
>>>>> the cane
>>>>> too. I went there in the same vacation that I went to Disney for
>>>>> the
>>>>> second time and they were very accomodating.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sophie,
>>>>> I'm one of those random oddballs who would probably go alone
>>>>> if I was
>>>>> traveling, and there was a really cool theme park near by.
>>>>> I
>>>>> know it's not for everyone, but occasionally doing those kinds
>>>>> of "social"
>>>>> things by myself is fun for me; both to keep my confidence up
>>>>> and to meet
>>>>> people that I otherwise wouldn't get to know.
>>>>> Anyways, I've taken my straight cane to theme parks no
>>>>> problem, but I'll
>>>>> confess I haven't tried a water park with it yet. A collapsible
>>>>> or folding
>>>>> cane seems more reasonable to me there. On rollercoasters or
>>>>> big rides
>>>>> like that, I've almost always just given my straight cane to the
>>>>> ride
>>>>> attendant and picked it up when the ride is done, but those
>>>>> rides usually
>>>>> start and end at the same place.
>>>>> Waterslides
>>>>> and things are different though, obviously.
>>>>> Basically, I've been reading this thread to see what useful
>>>>> bits I could
>>>>> glean from it, as I'll probably be going to a few water parks
>>>>> myself over
>>>>> the summer. Maybe this will finally give me the motivation I
>>>>> need to buy
>>>>> another collapsible or NFB folding cane. (I actually liked mine
>>>>> for the
>>>>> year or so it lasted, but I used it sparingly and certainly not
>>>>> as my
>>>>> primary cane.) Thanks, all, for the help and suggewstions.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I would where a belt around my bathing suit, and Use a folding
>>>>> cane with
>>>>> a holster.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>> Bennett
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:25 PM
>>>>> To: National Asociation of Blind Students
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> This summer, I am going to a water park. When I go to theme
>>>>> parks, I
>>>>> typically store my cane somewhere outside the ride area or on the
>>>>> exit
>>>>> side of a roller coaster platform. However, many water rides
>>>>> are such
>>>>> that you get on the ride in a different location, often quite a
>>>>> walk away,
>>>>> from the place where you get off of the ride.
>>>>> My
>>>>> cane is too long to fit in many inner tubes, and I doubt that
>>>>> it would be
>>>>> a safe thing to bring along especially if it came loose.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am wondering if a telescoping cane would be the best for
>>>>> this, because
>>>>> I know that many water rides have shoe holders. It would just
>>>>> be
>>>>> annoying, because I would have to rely on someone to guide me
>>>>> back to
>>>>> these shoe holders that are often at the entrance of the ride.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are your suggestions for storing a cane during water
>>>>> rides?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative
>>>>> Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>>>>>
>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> %40gmail
>>>>> .com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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