[nabs-l] canes and water park rides
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 4 03:14:27 UTC 2013
What source were you suppose to check?
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
Hi Kirt,
I had a great mobility instructor who emphasized the same point of knowing
who to ask without looking lost, and as you can imagine this point in some
cases can especially important for a girl like when it's late at night or if
the area might not be the best.
I want to get a gps though because I don't really know the city well and
wouldn't have the peace of mind to just go. Although I don't think my cane
skills would be the issue, I would probably worry too much about where I was
going unless I had some indication that I was at least on the right track.
I don't plan to be completely reliant on the gps, but I would have some
issues going blindly off in a direction without some way of checking where I
am. Another thing to consider is that you can't always garantee that other
people will be around, or that they will always be good at giving verbal
direction. Some people just aren't good at describing things, especially if
they've never had experience with a blind person before, and it can get you
into a scrape. For instance, I was on a lesson and we were doing an
exercise which involved me finding an ice cream parlor without knowing much
more than the name of the street it was on, the address, and a few
surrounding businesses. As I was walking towards the parlor I stopped a guy
who was taking a walk with what I assumed to be his kids. He told me the
parlor was another two blocks away and if I crossed the parallel street and
continued another three blocks it would be around there. I took his
directions and ended up totally missing the ice cream parlor. I ended up
going into a laundramat to get some more direction and the employees there
told me I had walked a block too far. It wasn't the guy's fault he gave
faulty directions; he was just asked to describe somethign off the cuff and
probably had never had experience with a blind person before. nevertheless,
my teacher questioned why I didn't check my source or use my own judgement
before passing it. (The store next to the ice cream shop was a KFC, but I
guess I didn't smell the chicken in my haste to walk three blocks).
Anyway, I would just rather have that peace of mind for backup.
On 4/2/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good afternoon, Kirt,
>
> Such an excellent post! Must be the blastomite in us?
> At a risk of presuming... CarAt 12:05 PM 4/2/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>Desiree,
>> I've noticed that "stellar" means different things to different
>>people. While I don't doubt that the top guide dog schools have
>>minimum standards for their applicants, I've seen plenty of friends go
>>to guide dog schools (even seeing eye and geb), who were not confident
>>cane travelers. Yes, they could cross familiar streets safely and
>>knew their way around the places they knew well, but nothing beyond
>>that. For me, and you can certainly disagree intelligently if you
>>like, but that's only a small part of solid travel skills. In my
>>mind, mobility isn't just about getting from point A to B to C and so
>>forth. It's about going wherever you want, whenever you want,
>>regardless of if you know the area already. Routes are nice but, to
>>me, competent travelers should be able to make their own routes, as
>>well as travel wherever they like and not necessarily be bound by any
>>specific route. That's something that I don't think most dog users I
>>know or, for that matter, most blind people are comfortable with.
>> I'll illustrate with a few examples; I want all of you to
>>understand that I'm not trying to say that I have these super awesome
>>mobility skills because, compared to lots of competent blind travelers
>>I know, I still have a long way to go. I'm not great at memorizing
>>maps and following set routes, especially in big buildings, but I
>>still feel like I get where I want to go when I want to be there, and
>>I don't have to rely on someone to take me or show me around (even
>>though I can see how some very competent people would do that, and
>>that's
>>fine.) But, just this last week, I was in Las Vegas for a student
>>seminar and a few of my new friends invited me to go to dinner at such
>>and such a restaurant across the street and a couple blocks down. I
>>politely declined because I felt tired but, about a half hour later, I
>>changed my mind and decided it was better to go late than not at all.
>>With only the restaurant name and address as reference, and my GPS
>>giving me periodic announcements of my rough location, I walked over
>>there without any trouble and had a great dinner. Incidentally, after
>>staying there for a little while I noticed how tired I was so I walked
>>back to the hotel by myself and, aside from being approached by a few
>>harmless drunk people, had no problem whatsoever. A couple days later
>>I spent a few hours walking up and down the Las Vegas strip (an area I
>>certainly was not familiar with at all), discovered that slot machines
>>are a phenominal waste of money, and walked back to my hotel a totally
>>different way than I came, just for the hell of it. It's sad how
>>incredible and amazing most people would think that was and, to me,
>>it's even sadder that most blind people I know (even most with good
>>cane skills and the ability to follow routes to the letter), would
>>probably not even try to do something like that, even if they wanted
>>to.
>> Now, of course you can say that most people, blind or sighted,
>>don't really spend that much time in unfamiliar environments and
>>that's a good point. Still, having the ability and the freedom to do
>>something like that, even though I don't get the chance near as often
>>as I'd like, has been an enormous confidence booster for me once I
>>realized I had that ability, even though there is really nothing
>>special or earth-shattering about my travel skills. I'm aware I like
>>exploring new places more than most people, blind or sighted, and I'm
>>not asking everybody to agree with me. You don't have to be a
>>Federationist, or use a long straight cane or have this huge passion
>>for always finding new places like I do in order to be an independent,
>>competent blind person. Still, I can't deny that my own individual
>>philosophy and personality has shaped my opinions on the matter, and I
>>have to acknowledge that I hold to those opinions passionately and
vehemently.
>> Anyways, my jaws demo is going to run out any second, so I have to
>>write fast. :) At least, I hopek, you can understand where I'm
>>coming from on this, as I try to do with the people who see it
>>differently than I do.
>> All the best,
>>Kirt
>>
>>On 4/2/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Kurt,
>> > Your experience with guide dog handlers is interesting. Before I go
>> > on to my main point, I just want to say that I, too, am a proud
>> > cane user, and I never intend on getting a dog. I never cared for
>> > dogs all that much, even when I was a kid. Let's just say that I've
>> > been around one too many poorly trained dogs in my lifetime, and
>> > some of the things they do are frankly disgusting. I've also been
>> > around several well-behaved guide dogs, but my childhood
>> > experiences do take precedence. That, and dogs smell, and that's
>> > not something I can really get used to, even though I know they can't
help it.
>> > now, to my point. I was always under the impression that in order
>> > for a person to even be accepted into a guide dog school, their
>> > cane skills had to be stellar. I've always heard about how if your
>> > existing cane and route traveling skills are subpar, you won't get
>> > a dog, simple as that. While they would hone a few rusty skills
>> > along the way, if time permits, they can't do everything, nor do
>> > they feel they should.
>> > I guess, like everything else, not all guide dog schools are
>> > created equal. Most people who have said this to me have either
>> > gone to the Seeing Eye in New Jersey or GEB in New York. From what
>> > I understand, those are the top two guide dog schools, anyway, so
>> > it wouldn't surprise me that their standards were way up there, not
>> > that they shouldn't be. Logic dictates that you shouldn't be able
>> > to take your dog everywhere you need to go. Dogs get sick, or maybe
>> > you want to go to a loud concert, or, yes, an amusement park. I
>> > agree that dogs don't really belong there, especially on particularly
brutal summer days.
>> >
>> > On 4/2/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Justin,
>> >> Exactly. For me, and I'm only speaking for myself, but being
>> >> forced to take my dog wherever I went, or not being able to leave
>> >> him home when the situation seemed to warrant it, doesn't appear
>> >> to work all that well. I'm going to make a generalization, and I
>> >> realize there are plenty of acceptions to what I'm about to say.
>> >> Still, I think it's worth mentioning, if for no other reason than
>> >> because it really applied to me personally. Also, I should
>> >> probably say that I'm not lumping Sarah or anybody else specific
>> >> on this list into what I'm about to say because...well, I don't
>> >> know most of you in real life, so who am I to judge?
>> >> Still, I've seen lots of blind people who get dogs because their
>> >> mobility skills aren't up to par and they want a cure. I have
>> >> plenty of friends and acquaintances who use dogs because they
>> >> don't feel confident in their ability to travel without them;
>> >> sadly, to me, this seems the rule more than the exception. It
>> >> kind of makes my heart hurt a little bit when I see friends shy
>> >> away from new places and experiences just because their dogs prefer to
stay in familiar areas.
>> >> Again, from what I've seen, this seems to be what happens more
>> >> often than not. I'm not saying a dog isn't a legitimate option; I
>> >> can see the advantages of traveling with one and, while they
>> >> aren't enough to convince me to become a dog user, they are
>> >> certainly real. I'm just saying that, if someone isn't a
>> >> confident and comfortable traveler already, having a dog won't
>> >> magically make up for it. Sadly, many (if not most) guide dog
>> >> users I know weren't confident travelers to begin with, so they
>> >> got a dog instead of getting quality training. Of course, I know
>> >> a whole bunch of cane users with the same problem, so it's
>> >> certainly not the dog's fault if the handler can't get where
>> >> he/she needs to go. I guess all I'm saying, and I'm sure most
>> >> competent dog users will wholeheartedly agree, is that getting a
>> >> good dog is no substitute for getting good training...but now I'm
>> >> wondering what any of this has to do with riding rollercoasters and
water slides. :)
>> >> Best,
>> >> Kirt
>> >>
>> >> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Cane, dog, what works.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>> >>> Manwaring
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:44 AM
>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>
>> >>> Sarah,
>> >>> I know I'm going to spark an age-old debate, and possibly get
>> >>> reprimanded for being off-topic, but I don't really care right now.
>> >>> I
>> >>> don't mean this condescendingly or judgmentally...but, Sarah, the
>> >>> next time someone asks me why I'm not a dog user, I want to have
>> >>> your e-mails on hand because they would make my case far better
>> >>> than I possibly could. (and, yes, I'm aware how ironic this will
>> >>> sound to anybody who remembers the stir I created a while back
>> >>> because I wanted to get a dog and bring him...or her...or
>> >>> whatever to a training
>> >>> center.)
>> >>> And, please, before anybody gets their knickers all twisted up
>> >>> over this, I'm definitely not anti-dog. I know some fantastic
>> >>> travelers who happen to be dog users; I also know some terrible
>> >>> travelers who happen to use canes instead. My point is simply
>> >>> that, having the personality I do where I want to wait my turn
>> >>> like most everyone else, and hearing the kinds of stories I do
>> >>> from Sarah and from most dog users I'm acquainted with about how
>> >>> ansy/skiddish/uncomfortable/needy their dogs are, I'm pretty darn
>> >>> sure I made the right decision for myself. This isn't a
>> >>> condemnation, much as some people might construe it as one.
>> >>> Canes can certainly bring issues of their own...but my straight
>> >>> cane won't have a panic attack if I decide to leave it at home
>> >>> and take my folding cane instead, and vice-versa.
>> >>> Anyways, sorry for the rambling...I'm trying to find every
>> >>> possible excuse I can to distract me from my political science
>> >>> homework, because Plato's Republic is really hurting my fragile
>> >>> little head right now. :) I really didn't mean this as a knock
>> >>> against competent dog-users or, really, against Sarah at all. I
>> >>> just meant to say how stories like this reinforce my belief that,
>> >>> in choosing not to get a guide dog, I think I made the right
>> >>> decision for me.
>> >>> Best,
>> >>> Kirt
>> >>>
>> >>> On 4/1/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> i can't leave Wizard hoc alone when I go to parks he freaks out
>> >>>> when I leave him for a few hours to go to a friend's house.
>> >>>> Besides his trainers told me to none leave him alone
>> >>>> unsupervised for more than an hour inr 2.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>> >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:08:50 -0700
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Perhaps you shouldn't bring Wizard under those circumstances?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mike
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>> Sarah
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:32 PM
>> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm not making my guide dog wait 4 hours for one ride in the
>> >>>> uncomfortable hot weather. Besides, all the ride operators know
>> >>>> me at the park anyways.
>> >>>> I never waited in line before I did for like 2 hours because X2
>> >>>> broke down and sy had to replace a wheel.
>> >>>> But I'm not making Wizard wait in line er 4 hours for each ride.
>> >>>> It's like 2 or 4 hours for each ride and I bought an immediate
>> >>>> boarding pass. All I have to do is show the paper I bought to
>> >>>> the operator if they don't know me already, and they let me on.
>> >>>> People are just jealous because they can't do it!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 20:18:14 -0600
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sarah,
>> >>>> I know you're going to get a lot of flack for what you just
>> >>>> said, so I'll do my best to be gentle. I know each person's
>> >>>> situation is different, so I'm not judging every blind person
>> >>>> who chooses to take that extra perk and cut through line; for
>> >>>> all I know, there really is some other disability or legitimate
>> >>>> need for that accommodation with some of us, so farbeit from me
>> >>>> to condemn everyone wholesale for making that choice. Still,
>> >>>> and I feel very strongly about this, if you are capable of
>> >>>> waiting in line with everybody else, you should.
>> >>>> Period. In the past, there have been a few times where I've
>> >>>> caved in to family pressure and broken my own rule; I'm not
>> >>>> proud of it, I don't always measure up to my own standards here,
>> >>>> but I nevertheless believe very passionately that we should not
>> >>>> take "accommodation"
>> >>>> where we do not need it. If you had no real need to cut in
>> >>>> line, and it sounds like you didn't if you've been able to wait
>> >>>> in long lines before (if I'm wrong please forgive me), you
>> >>>> shouldn't have.
>> >>>> That's
>> >>>> my opinion, I'm not trying to be harsh because I've certainly
>> >>>> skipped in line a few times before (and invariably felt ashamed
>> >>>> afterwords), but accommodation is only real accommodation if it
>> >>>> serves a real need.
>> >>>> We have enough real needs already to go around taking advantage
>> >>>> of things that just aren't necessary. Not only is it a waste
>> >>>> but it can, if we aren't careful, send totally the wrong message
>> >>>> about blindness.
>> >>>> Our reputation as people who take and take, without giving back,
>> >>>> isn't entirely unjustified. If we want to be treated equally,
>> >>>> we _have_ to have it both ways. If we want equal treatment, we
>> >>>> have equal responsibility.
>> >>>> Much as this might seem menial, or irrelevant to the larger
>> >>>> problems we face, waiting in lines is a drudgery that we ought
>> >>>> to accept cheerfully (or at least grudgingly) if we really want
>> >>>> equal access to amusement parks. I think, for many blind
>> >>>> people, the attitude which says it's okay to cut in line even
>> >>>> though we could wait like everyone else is indicative of a far,
>> >>>> far larger problem. I am, of course, referring to the idea that
>> >>>> we are entitled to special treatment and superior, not equal
>> >>>> access. We wouldn't phrase it that way...but when we're asking
>> >>>> for unnecessary extended time for assignments (I'm not implying
>> >>>> that all extended time is unnecessary), demanding the right to a
>> >>>> dedicated person to take our notes for us, begging rehab for
>> >>>> every piece of the newest and greatest technology and, yes,
>> >>>> cutting in lines at amusement parks...isn't that what we're
>> >>>> really saying?
>> >>>> Just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth.
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>> Kirt
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 4/1/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> So they let you cut through the line with a dog, but not with a
>> >>>> cane?
>> >>>> Interesting.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>> >>>> Public Relations Committee
>> >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>> >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>> Sarah
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:40 PM
>> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Because with my dog, they let me right on, and they watch the
>> >>>> dog very carefully even when someone else is holding it so
>> >>>> nobody pets it while you're on the ride. With a cane, they will
>> >>>> just say "Wait 4 hours like everyone else."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 21:26:25 -0400
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sarah,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just curious: how is Six Flags more accommodating to a guide
>> >>>> dog user than to a cane user?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>> >>>> Public Relations Committee
>> >>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>> >>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>> Sarah Meeks
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 7:56 PM
>> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My best amusement park experience has always been Six Flags.
>> >>>> They are very
>> >>>> accommodating. There you are more accommodating now that I
>> >>>> have a dog.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Kaiti Shelton
>> >>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yay for Disney! they were by far my best park experience. I
>> >>>> went twice as a little kid. The first time I went I was five
>> >>>> or six and my parents also had a baby in a stroller, so the
>> >>>> practice for both me and my sister was to hold onto our
>> >>>> brother's stroller to keep with our parents and not get lost.
>> >>>> My parents just gave me verbal direction and were with me the
>> >>>> entire time, so there really wasn't a major need for a cane.
>> >>>> When I went
>> >>>> again as an older kid though, I did have a folding cane and
>> >>>> the Disney staff was very good about either showing me tricks
>> >>>> to keep it with me or holding it and then giving it back to me
>> >>>> when I got off, even on water rides like Splash Mountain and the
>> >>>> Pirates of the Caribbean rides which start in one place and end
>> >>>> at another. If you have a folding cane you can secure it
>> >>>> folded with the loop and then put your wrist through the cane
>> >>>> and the strap and just let it hang as you hold onto something.
>> >>>> It won't
>> >>>> flop around as much as the telescopic cane. Also, the holster
>> >>>> idea sounds good, although some park personelle at other
>> >>>> amusement parks get worried about it coming lose. Either way,
>> >>>> you shouldn't have any problems with getting the ride people to
>> >>>> bring you your cane at the ride exit.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> By the way, Universal Studios was excellent about working with
>> >>>> the cane too. I went there in the same vacation that I went to
>> >>>> Disney for the second time and they were very accomodating.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 4/1/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Sophie,
>> >>>> I'm one of those random oddballs who would probably go alone
>> >>>> if I was traveling, and there was a really cool theme park near
>> >>>> by.
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> know it's not for everyone, but occasionally doing those kinds
>> >>>> of "social"
>> >>>> things by myself is fun for me; both to keep my confidence up
>> >>>> and to meet people that I otherwise wouldn't get to know.
>> >>>> Anyways, I've taken my straight cane to theme parks no
>> >>>> problem, but I'll confess I haven't tried a water park with it
>> >>>> yet. A collapsible or folding cane seems more reasonable to me
>> >>>> there. On rollercoasters or big rides like that, I've almost
>> >>>> always just given my straight cane to the ride attendant and
>> >>>> picked it up when the ride is done, but those rides usually
>> >>>> start and end at the same place.
>> >>>> Waterslides
>> >>>> and things are different though, obviously.
>> >>>> Basically, I've been reading this thread to see what useful
>> >>>> bits I could glean from it, as I'll probably be going to a few
>> >>>> water parks myself over the summer. Maybe this will finally
>> >>>> give me the motivation I need to buy another collapsible or NFB
>> >>>> folding cane. (I actually liked mine for the year or so it
>> >>>> lasted, but I used it sparingly and certainly not as my primary
>> >>>> cane.) Thanks, all, for the help and suggewstions.
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>> Kirt
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> I would where a belt around my bathing suit, and Use a folding
>> >>>> cane with a holster.
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:25 PM
>> >>>> To: National Asociation of Blind Students
>> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] canes and water park rides
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi everyone,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This summer, I am going to a water park. When I go to theme
>> >>>> parks, I typically store my cane somewhere outside the ride area
>> >>>> or on the exit side of a roller coaster platform. However,
>> >>>> many water rides are such that you get on the ride in a
>> >>>> different location, often quite a walk away, from the place
>> >>>> where you get off of the ride.
>> >>>> My
>> >>>> cane is too long to fit in many inner tubes, and I doubt that
>> >>>> it would be a safe thing to bring along especially if it came
>> >>>> loose.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am wondering if a telescoping cane would be the best for
>> >>>> this, because I know that many water rides have shoe holders.
>> >>>> It would just be annoying, because I would have to rely on
>> >>>> someone to guide me back to these shoe holders that are often
>> >>>> at the entrance of the ride.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So what are your suggestions for storing a cane during water
>> >>>> rides?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students Legislative
>> >>>> Coordinator: National Federation of the Blind of Washington
>> >>>>
>> >>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> ms2
>> >>>> %40gmail
>> >>>> .com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> t104
>> >>>> %40gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Kaiti
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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