[nabs-l] Lines

Fri Apr 5 18:46:36 UTC 2013

Carley,
  I know we're veering really far into the intersection of "irrelevant
street" and "off-topic avenue", but I'll respond anyhow.  A
split-second spontaneous curse is really different from an e-mail
where you have the chance to deliberate and polish what you're going
to say.  That's not to say I never use profanity deliberately, I find
it cathartic sometimes as a matter of fact, but I know it offends lots
of people and, according to social norms adopted by most people in
public, is in bad taste.  Of course, I will very occasionally break
that social norm deliberately, but that's beside the point.  :)
  Also, I think we both know profanity offends lots of people.  I'm
not above offending people when I need to and there's no way around it
and neither will I shy away from sharing my honest opinion, when I
feel it necessary or I'm asked directly,  even when I know it will
make some people uncomfortable.  Still, if I can say what I want to
without offending people, I'll do my level best to do that, most of
the time.  Anyways I'm done.  I have homework to do.  :)
  Best,
Kirt

On 4/5/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi, Kirt,
>
> What I have found is that, often there not being another ways of
> expressing certain emotional reactions. For example, Why for the sake
> of sanitary expression, did you decline to say upon  spilling tea the
> other day, "Ouch! "That was hot!" "Darnet!"
> Those types of vanilla verbeage are not the first things to leap off
> a tenderr tongue like your's, when conditions prove themselves
> slightly less than rosy, are they? So, I could think of no other way
> of characturizing a oitential reaction to my post than, okay for
> sanitization's sake, poopstorm. People know what is trying to be
> expressed so why not just say what your thinking in terms of real, no
> bull-ppoop language?
> Car
> :41 AM 4/5/2013, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
>>At 10:05 AM 4/4/2013, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>Kar,
>>>   First, while I think there is absolutely a time and place for
>>>profanity (you should have heard me when I accidentally spilled a cup
>>>of hot tea at a coffee shop just a few days ago), I don't think it
>>>suits a publicly archived mailing list.  This is coming from someone
>>>who can curse like a completely drunk sailor, believe me, I just don't
>>>think this is the right venue for language like that.
>>>   Now on to the substance of my email.  As should be completely
>>>obvious by now, I'm not a dog user and (probably) will never be one.
>>>Still I think leaving Fido home (as most guide dogs are trained to
>>>deal with), would be a better option than bringing the pooch to the
>>>amusement park.  If you want to go with a friend (as most people
>>>probably will), more power to you.  Still, if you have to rely on that
>>>friend to get you wherever you need to go, and you aren't capable of
>>>handling yourself should you get separated, either by accident or by
>>>choice, then I think you probably need some mobility training.  I hate
>>>making generalizations but, I think, that's a safe one to make.
>>>   Best,
>>>Kirt
>>>
>>>On 4/4/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> > Good morning, Jess,,
>>> >
>>> > If you considder the plight of a guide dog, it is most often  that
>>> > they are trained to deny their dog-ness, what MaMa nature inscribed
>>> > in its DNA I.E not barking or humping a leg, at times of being moved
>>> > to do so, not begging, being drug places unsuited for pooches. My
>>> > suggestion would be, for the poor dog's sake, to buddy up with a
>>> > friend, and let notions of independence go, at least for Fido's sake?
>>> > I know this will probably cause a shit storm, but there it is.
>>> > Have a great day, and, keep on smilin'! Car
>>> > ,
>>> >
>>> > Seeems toAt 04:54 AM 4/2/2013, you wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>Hello:
>>> >>Personally, and I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but
>>> >>I honestly feel this way. I strongly feel that people with guide
>>> >>dogs shouldn't be taking them to water parks anyway. I don't think
>>> >>it's right that the dog has to go through so much especially at a
>>> >>waterpark. I understand we want to look more independent and what
>>> >>not, but putting a dog through torture like that, at a crowded
>>> >>waterpark, waiting for hours and hours  possibly in lines if you
>>> >>choose to stand in a line just seems inhumane to me.
>>> >>Jess
>>> >>
>>> >>Check out my blog:
>>> >>http://empowernetwork.com/jessicasilva
>>> >>http://www.makemoneywithjessica.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>------------------------------
>>> >>On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 4:55 AM MDT Carly Mihalakis wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Good morning,
>>> >> >
>>> >> >         It seems to me, in the end your scores speak louder, and
>>> >> >with my clarity than if you happen to have taken extra time.  I
>>> >> > mean,
>>> >> >who cares?
>>> >> >Car09:35 PM 3/31/2013, justin williams wrote:
>>> >> >>I take the time and a half.  Think what you want.  I can learn to
>>> >> be fast on
>>> >> >>a job.  I was one of the top agents at Teleperformance; still got
>>> >> cheated in
>>> >> >>the end.  I was one of the best agents in the call center. (Grin.)
>>> >> >> No
>>> >> >> but
>>> >> >>seriously, I use any tool available to me.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>-----Original Message-----
>>> >> >>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
>>> >> >> Manwaring
>>> >> >>Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:26 AM
>>> >> >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> >>Subject: Re:                    [nabs-l] Lines
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>Justin,
>>> >> >>   In high school I took the extra time way more than I should have;
>>> >> >> in
>>> >> >>hindsight, I was using it to hide the fact that I wasn't as
>>> >> >> efficient
>>> >> >> with
>>> >> >>braille as my peers were with print.  I know this is an entirely
>>> >> >> different
>>> >> >>subject, but I think extra time is legitimate only when inherently
>>> >> >> visual
>>> >> >>information like pictures and complex graphs need to be presented
>>> >> >> tactally
>>> >> >>or verbally.  Even then, it ought to be used with care because, as
>>> >> >> has
>>> >> >> been
>>> >> >>said ad noseum, you can't get the "time and a half" on the job.
>>> >> >>   Best,
>>> >> >>Kirt
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>On 3/31/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> > Do you take the time and a half on tests?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> >> >> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>> >> >> > Silverman
>>> >> >> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:04 PM
>>> >> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Lines
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Hi all,
>>> >> >> > Thank you Kirt for making such a great point. When I was growing
>>> >> >> > up
>>> >> >> > my
>>> >> >> > parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so
>>> >> >> > that
>>> >> >> > we
>>> >> >> > could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it
>>> >> >> > without
>>> >> >> > giving me a choice about it. I used to try and justify our
>>> >> >> > behavior
>>> >> >> > but in  the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense of
>>> >> >> > shame
>>> >> >> > and anger, but I could never figure out why. Since then I have
>>> >> >> > learned
>>> >> >> > about self-perception theory in psychology classes and I think I
>>> >> >> > understand why it bothers me (and many of
>>> >> >> > us) so much. Basically, self-perception theory posits that we
>>> >> >> > draw
>>> >> >> > conclusions about ourselves by observing our own behavior. I
>>> >> >> > think
>>> >> >> > whenever I used my blindness as a reason to get a guest pass and
>>> >> >> > skip
>>> >> >> > the line, it made me start to see myself as a handicapped or
>>> >> >> > crippled
>>> >> >> > person, which was very upsetting. For some people who have
>>> >> >> > trouble
>>> >> >> > standing for long periods of time, or who have guide dogs who
>>> >> >> > get
>>> >> >> > uncomfortable standing out in the sun, cutting in line seems
>>> >> >> > legitimate. But if we can physically handle the lines, accepting
>>> >> >> > the
>>> >> >> > special passes doesn't do us any real favors. I insist on
>>> >> >> > standing
>>> >> >> > in
>>> >> >> > line with everyone else because I want to see myself (and my
>>> >> >> > fellow
>>> >> >> > blind friends) as strong, healthy, normal people. I feel I have
>>> >> >> > little
>>> >> >> > to gain by skipping the lines, and much to lose in terms of
>>> >> >> > self-esteem and self-respect. I think every time we take an
>>> >> >> > accommodation, we need to think about what we are gaining from
>>> >> >> > that
>>> >> >> > accommodation vs. what we are potentially losing in terms of
>>> >> >> > normalcy.
>>> >> >> > If an accommodation like a piece of technology is  truly
>>> >> >> > necessary,
>>> >> >> > it
>>> >> >> > will give enough benefit that it's worth the self-esteem hit. But
>>> >> >> > if
>>> >> >> > an accommodation isn't really needed, I think we have more to
>>> >> >> > lose
>>> >> >> > than we have to gain by accepting it. For this same reason I also
>>> >> >> > do
>>> >> >> > not write off blindness as a reason to claim a tax deduction.
>>> >> >> > I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required
>>> >> >> > to
>>> >> >> > pay
>>> >> >> > taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income
>>> >> >> > bracket
>>> >> >> > makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the world.
>>> >> >> > There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same
>>> >> >> > rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the
>>> >> >> > extra
>>> >> >> > responsibilities. If we want to be allowed to ride amusement
>>> >> >> > park
>>> >> >> > rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in
>>> >> >> > line.
>>> >> >> > It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on
>>> >> >> > equal
>>> >> >> > treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed
>>> >> >> > message
>>> >> >> > to
>>> >> >> > request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a
>>> >> >> > professor's
>>> >> >> > letter of recommendation.
>>> >> >> > Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is
>>> >> >> > a
>>> >> >> > legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
>>> >> >> > Arielle
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >> >> > info
>>> >> >> > for
>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%4
>>> >> >> > 0gmail
>>> >> >> > .com
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> >> >> > info
>>> >> >> > for
>>> >> >> > nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
>>> >> >> > mail.com
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >> >>nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> >> for
>>> >> >>nabs-l:
>>> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.william
>>> >> s2%40gmail
>>> >> >>.com
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >> >>nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> for nabs-l:
>>> >> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%4
>>> 0comcast.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >_______________________________________________
>>> >> >nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> for nabs-l:
>>> >> >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessmonsilva200
>>> >> 3%40sbcglobal.net
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>nabs-l mailing list
>>> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>