[nabs-l] Lines

Fri Apr 5 12:54:34 UTC 2013

Really, we are still on profane language? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 12:26 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines

Hi all,

Ashley, apparently it is.  I'm at a conference now and a guy who was
talking about the one in Minnisota, which they actually call Valley
Fair, has that option apparently.  (He happened to be talking about
how they got a skip ahead pass for their young daughter who is a
roller coaster fiend.)

I hope I'm not being too scattered by commenting on several comments
in the thread in one message, but here it goes.

I agree, if in the event you get lost you should always have at least
the skill to backtrack or do whatever you need to do to un-lose
yourself, or to do something on your own.  I've done quite a bit of
traveling in comparison to most students in my year because of the
nature of my major.  (This is my second conference in six months and I
traveled with one of my band ensembles a month before my first
conference just in this year alone).  There have been occasions on
trips like these or on ones I took with various groups in high school
that I did get separated from the group for whatever reason and I had
to find my way back in an unfamiliar place.  Now it's not such a big
problem because I'm with other students who are training to work with
people with disabilities and mental disorders and such so they make
sure I stay with them if we're not already engaged in conversation on
the way, but in high school it was trickier.  Speaking of New York,
the one time I really had to work to find where I was going was when
my band went to New York City and we took a walking/bus tour through
the city.  We were going through Central Park and we stopped at
Strawberry Fields.  Being a huge Beatles fan I stopped to listen to a
guy who was playing some of their songs and didn't pay attention to my
tour guide and group leave the area.  I had to be able to trace my
steps back to the bus in order to make sure I would be there in time
for the next pull-out.  (I could have tried to find them, but there
were several paths going off of that one point and I didn't want to
risk getting lost, but the point is I was able to backtrack and do
what I had to do).  Other times, as Kirt said, I'll be at an event of
some sort and need to use the restroom or want to get a drink or
something.  I'm all for just taking care of what you need yourself in
those situations too; it makes no sense making someone walk with you
to a place you're perfectly capable of getting to on your own.  If for
some reason you really can't get there then that is different, but if
you can do it without someone else interveening that is ideal, I
think.

I don't necessarily think guide dogs are exploited.  Often, the bond
between guide dog and handler is really strong and the dogs like to
work.  (I've seen plenty of dogs perk up when their owners get out
their harnesses to take them on a walk).  they're not beaten or
shocked, and most who have handlers who treat them well seem to enjoy
what they do.  Granted, not all handlers treat their dogs well and
that is the real problem that needs correcting in those situations,
and I certainly am not a doggy mind-reader, but this is just what I've
observed.

I also agree that list serves which are publically archived are not
the best place for profanity.  I'm all for saying what you mean and
meaning what you say in plain English, but the bottom line is that
these things can show up in Google searches and I can't speak for
everyone, but I personally have been lectured several times about
being careful with what I post on the web.  The scope of this goes far
beyond the possibility of offending someone on the NABS list or even
the NFB, because if an employer is the type of person that finds that
unnecessary language offensive it could cost a person a job.  Kirt has
a point, it's not like every day speech where something could just
slip out or roll off the tongue and people won't care as much, emails
and written communication are much more deliberate because you have
time to think about what you're putting down in print before you post
or send it to somewhere.  If an employer sees something they don't
like posted online in a public place, they might consider that just a
hop skip and a jump away from making poor judgements in wording when
writing company memoes or other things that need to be in print for
their business.  I'm not saying that this instance will work that way,
but people have been denied or lost their jobs before over this so
it's just something to watch out for.

On 4/5/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> I didn't know you could cut in line either except for disney world.
> Apparently sara does it at six flags, so it must be available there too.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: justin williams
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:12 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>
> Wow, I didn't no you can cut in line like that.  I wouldn't. I can stand
up
> just fine.  I'm not telling anyone else that they shouldn't. I don't want
> to
> get in someone's grill like that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
> Bramlett
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 9:40 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>
> what amusement parks do you frequent that let you do this, Sara?
> You get to ride lots more than the average person. I don't know how you
> stand all those roller coasters.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:05 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>
> My dog is very impati-that about waiting he can't wait in line at
> the bank very good without geting restless let alone a theme
> park.  Besides, when you don't cart the lines at theme parks
> you're lucky if you get to ride like 4 rides because our
> amusement parks  are only open like 8 hours at the most.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:45:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I remember getting those special bracelets that let me cut in
> line at
> 6 Flags here in St.  Louis.  I didn't know better as a kid, but
> as I
> got older, I've wondered about the logic of such things.  we are
> physically capable of standing in line.  Well, there are those
> who are
> blind and have other disabilities that may prevent them from
> doing so.
> I just didn't get it.
>
> Now I use a guide dog.  I don't think I've ever chosen to take
> her to
> an amusement park.  If I had to bring her to an amusement park, I
> suppose it would be better for her to cut in line.  I don't think
> I
> would ever bring her outside in the heat like that for a long
> period
> of time.  If I went to an amusement park all year round, like it
> seems
> Sarah does, it would be a different story though.  Then I don't
> see
> why my dog would have a problem waiting in line.  I'm not sure
> though.
> Haven't tried it.  Lol
>
> Also the Disney parks have a place where people can keep their
> dogs
> while they're riding rides.  I don't know much about it, but it's
> an
> option.
>
> On 4/1/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Thank you Kirt for making such a great point.  When I was
> growing up my
> parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so
> that we
> could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it
> without
> giving me a choice about it.  I used to try and justify our
> behavior
> but in  the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense of
> shame
> and anger, but I could never figure out why.  Since then I have
> learned
> about self-perception theory in psychology classes and I think I
> understand why it bothers me (and many of us) so much.
> Basically,
> self-perception theory posits that we draw conclusions about
> ourselves
> by observing our own behavior.  I think whenever I used my
> blindness as
> a reason to get a guest pass and skip the line, it made me start
> to
> see myself as a handicapped or crippled person, which was very
> upsetting.  For some people who have trouble standing for long
> periods
> of time, or who have guide dogs who get uncomfortable standing
> out in
> the sun, cutting in line seems legitimate.  But if we can
> physically
> handle the lines, accepting the special passes doesn't do us any
> real
> favors.  I insist on standing in line with everyone else because
> I want
> to see myself (and my fellow blind friends) as strong, healthy,
> normal
> people.  I feel I have little to gain by skipping the lines, and
> much
> to lose in terms of self-esteem and self-respect.  I think every
> time
> we take an accommodation, we need to think about what we are
> gaining
> from that accommodation vs.  what we are potentially losing in
> terms of
> normalcy.  If an accommodation like a piece of technology is
> truly
> necessary, it will give enough benefit that it's worth the
> self-esteem
> hit.  But if an accommodation isn't really needed, I think we
> have more
> to lose than we have to gain by accepting it.  For this same
> reason I
> also do not write off blindness as a reason to claim a tax
> deduction.
> I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required
> to pay
> taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income
> bracket
> makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the world.
> There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same
> rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the
> extra
> responsibilities.  If we want to be allowed to ride amusement
> park
> rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in
> line.
> It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on
> equal
> treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed
> message to
> request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a
> professor's
> letter of recommendation.
> Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is
> a
> legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
> Arielle
>
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>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
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-- 
Kaiti

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