[nabs-l] Lines
Kaiti Shelton
crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 7 06:22:46 UTC 2013
Hi,
Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. Judging by the tone of
that last email, (which is funny to me as I remember you calling
someone else out on the tone they used a week or so ago), what I
consider to have been an explanation of what I considered to be
practical advice with big implications that were being carelessly
overlooked was not taken that way for whatever reason. I don't get
why all of a sudden we can't address emails to one person in
particular to further explain a point without them getting offended,
as this happens all over the list all the time, but such is the nature
of electronic messages. You can certainly choose to read into it what
you will or won't.
Anyway, it's late. Night all.
On 4/5/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well then. just let me have it why don't you. Score one for you. Grin.
> Actually, lol.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>
> Justin,
>
> Excuse me if I seemed like I was beating a dead horse, but I was only
> trying to second Kirt's good point since it seemed to me as if it was
> not being taken seriously. People are certainly free to do what they
> want, but in this case that was just advice I think any conscientious
> person would take instead of blowing off like it was no big deal. Try
> googling the NABS discussions on google. I can garantee you that
> they're readily available to an potential employer or anyone else who
> might look for them. Now try just searching your name and nothing
> else. I did this and found nabs postings of mine just on the second
> page of results, and considering a bunch of the stuff on the first
> page was for other people who share my name it was pretty high up on
> the stuff that is linked directly to me. In actuality, the profanity
> is secondary to the real point of being mindful of what you put out on
> the internet, so it's not a simple slip of the tongue Kirt and I were
> really advising against, but something that should be taken more
> seriously. So to answer your question no, we were not really still on
> profanity, the topic really at hand was more along the lines of
> professionalism and thinking with the future in mind rather than doing
> something that could have consequences just because it might sound
> cool or whatever to some people in the present.
>
> In general, if the idaea of a potential employer not liking something
> you wrote doesn't do the job, then hopefully this other rule of thumb
> will work. Don't put anything out there on the internet that you
> wouldn't send in an email or say to your grandmother, a professor, or
> some other figure of your choice you wouldn't want to look bad in
> front of in reality.
>
> On 4/6/13, Sarah <coastergirl92 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Our awesome Magic Mountain has a skip the line pass because I'm a
>> coaster fiend too, and my dog won't wait in line for 4 hours at a
>> time. Magic Mountain rocks, they give you a pass automatically
>> if you are blind or especially if you are on the autism Spectrum
>> which I am.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 08:54:34 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> Really, we are still on profane language?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 12:26 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Ashley, apparently it is. I'm at a conference now and a guy who
>> was
>> talking about the one in Minnisota, which they actually call
>> Valley
>> Fair, has that option apparently. (He happened to be talking
>> about
>> how they got a skip ahead pass for their young daughter who is a
>> roller coaster fiend.)
>>
>> I hope I'm not being too scattered by commenting on several
>> comments
>> in the thread in one message, but here it goes.
>>
>> I agree, if in the event you get lost you should always have at
>> least
>> the skill to backtrack or do whatever you need to do to un-lose
>> yourself, or to do something on your own. I've done quite a bit
>> of
>> traveling in comparison to most students in my year because of
>> the
>> nature of my major. (This is my second conference in six months
>> and I
>> traveled with one of my band ensembles a month before my first
>> conference just in this year alone). There have been occasions
>> on
>> trips like these or on ones I took with various groups in high
>> school
>> that I did get separated from the group for whatever reason and I
>> had
>> to find my way back in an unfamiliar place. Now it's not such a
>> big
>> problem because I'm with other students who are training to work
>> with
>> people with disabilities and mental disorders and such so they
>> make
>> sure I stay with them if we're not already engaged in
>> conversation on
>> the way, but in high school it was trickier. Speaking of New
>> York,
>> the one time I really had to work to find where I was going was
>> when
>> my band went to New York City and we took a walking/bus tour
>> through
>> the city. We were going through Central Park and we stopped at
>> Strawberry Fields. Being a huge Beatles fan I stopped to listen
>> to a
>> guy who was playing some of their songs and didn't pay attention
>> to my
>> tour guide and group leave the area. I had to be able to trace
>> my
>> steps back to the bus in order to make sure I would be there in
>> time
>> for the next pull-out. (I could have tried to find them, but
>> there
>> were several paths going off of that one point and I didn't want
>> to
>> risk getting lost, but the point is I was able to backtrack and
>> do
>> what I had to do). Other times, as Kirt said, I'll be at an
>> event of
>> some sort and need to use the restroom or want to get a drink or
>> something. I'm all for just taking care of what you need
>> yourself in
>> those situations too; it makes no sense making someone walk with
>> you
>> to a place you're perfectly capable of getting to on your own.
>> If for
>> some reason you really can't get there then that is different,
>> but if
>> you can do it without someone else interveening that is ideal, I
>> think.
>>
>> I don't necessarily think guide dogs are exploited. Often, the
>> bond
>> between guide dog and handler is really strong and the dogs like
>> to
>> work. (I've seen plenty of dogs perk up when their owners get
>> out
>> their harnesses to take them on a walk). they're not beaten or
>> shocked, and most who have handlers who treat them well seem to
>> enjoy
>> what they do. Granted, not all handlers treat their dogs well
>> and
>> that is the real problem that needs correcting in those
>> situations,
>> and I certainly am not a doggy mind-reader, but this is just what
>> I've
>> observed.
>>
>> I also agree that list serves which are publically archived are
>> not
>> the best place for profanity. I'm all for saying what you mean
>> and
>> meaning what you say in plain English, but the bottom line is
>> that
>> these things can show up in Google searches and I can't speak for
>> everyone, but I personally have been lectured several times about
>> being careful with what I post on the web. The scope of this
>> goes far
>> beyond the possibility of offending someone on the NABS list or
>> even
>> the NFB, because if an employer is the type of person that finds
>> that
>> unnecessary language offensive it could cost a person a job.
>> Kirt has
>> a point, it's not like every day speech where something could
>> just
>> slip out or roll off the tongue and people won't care as much,
>> emails
>> and written communication are much more deliberate because you
>> have
>> time to think about what you're putting down in print before you
>> post
>> or send it to somewhere. If an employer sees something they
>> don't
>> like posted online in a public place, they might consider that
>> just a
>> hop skip and a jump away from making poor judgements in wording
>> when
>> writing company memoes or other things that need to be in print
>> for
>> their business. I'm not saying that this instance will work that
>> way,
>> but people have been denied or lost their jobs before over this
>> so
>> it's just something to watch out for.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> I didn't know you could cut in line either except for disney
>> world.
>> Apparently sara does it at six flags, so it must be available
>> there too.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: justin williams
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:12 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> Wow, I didn't no you can cut in line like that. I wouldn't. I
>> can stand
>> up
>> just fine. I'm not telling anyone else that they shouldn't. I
>> don't want
>> to
>> get in someone's grill like that.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Ashley
>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 9:40 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> what amusement parks do you frequent that let you do this, Sara?
>> You get to ride lots more than the average person. I don't know
>> how you
>> stand all those roller coasters.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sarah
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:05 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> My dog is very impati-that about waiting he can't wait in line
>> at
>> the bank very good without geting restless let alone a theme
>> park. Besides, when you don't cart the lines at theme parks
>> you're lucky if you get to ride like 4 rides because our
>> amusement parks are only open like 8 hours at the most.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 22:45:07 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Lines
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I remember getting those special bracelets that let me cut in
>> line at
>> 6 Flags here in St. Louis. I didn't know better as a kid, but
>> as I
>> got older, I've wondered about the logic of such things. we are
>> physically capable of standing in line. Well, there are those
>> who are
>> blind and have other disabilities that may prevent them from
>> doing so.
>> I just didn't get it.
>>
>> Now I use a guide dog. I don't think I've ever chosen to take
>> her to
>> an amusement park. If I had to bring her to an amusement park,
>> I
>> suppose it would be better for her to cut in line. I don't
>> think
>> I
>> would ever bring her outside in the heat like that for a long
>> period
>> of time. If I went to an amusement park all year round, like it
>> seems
>> Sarah does, it would be a different story though. Then I don't
>> see
>> why my dog would have a problem waiting in line. I'm not sure
>> though.
>> Haven't tried it. Lol
>>
>> Also the Disney parks have a place where people can keep their
>> dogs
>> while they're riding rides. I don't know much about it, but
>> it's
>> an
>> option.
>>
>> On 4/1/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Thank you Kirt for making such a great point. When I was
>> growing up my
>> parents and friends often pressured me to use my blindness so
>> that we
>> could cut lines and sometimes my parents even required it
>> without
>> giving me a choice about it. I used to try and justify our
>> behavior
>> but in the end when I did this I always felt a deep sense of
>> shame
>> and anger, but I could never figure out why. Since then I have
>> learned
>> about self-perception theory in psychology classes and I think I
>> understand why it bothers me (and many of us) so much.
>> Basically,
>> self-perception theory posits that we draw conclusions about
>> ourselves
>> by observing our own behavior. I think whenever I used my
>> blindness as
>> a reason to get a guest pass and skip the line, it made me start
>> to
>> see myself as a handicapped or crippled person, which was very
>> upsetting. For some people who have trouble standing for long
>> periods
>> of time, or who have guide dogs who get uncomfortable standing
>> out in
>> the sun, cutting in line seems legitimate. But if we can
>> physically
>> handle the lines, accepting the special passes doesn't do us any
>> real
>> favors. I insist on standing in line with everyone else because
>> I want
>> to see myself (and my fellow blind friends) as strong, healthy,
>> normal
>> people. I feel I have little to gain by skipping the lines, and
>> much
>> to lose in terms of self-esteem and self-respect. I think every
>> time
>> we take an accommodation, we need to think about what we are
>> gaining
>> from that accommodation vs. what we are potentially losing in
>> terms of
>> normalcy. If an accommodation like a piece of technology is
>> truly
>> necessary, it will give enough benefit that it's worth the
>> self-esteem
>> hit. But if an accommodation isn't really needed, I think we
>> have more
>> to lose than we have to gain by accepting it. For this same
>> reason I
>> also do not write off blindness as a reason to claim a tax
>> deduction.
>> I am proud to be (barely) earning enough income to be required
>> to pay
>> taxes and paying taxes just like anyone else in my income
>> bracket
>> makes me feel good about myself and where I belong in the world.
>> There's also the argument that if we want to be allowed the same
>> rights sighted people get, we need to be willing to saddle the
>> extra
>> responsibilities. If we want to be allowed to ride amusement
>> park
>> rides without discrimination, we need to be willing to wait in
>> line.
>> It sends a mixed message to skip the line and then insist on
>> equal
>> treatment by the ride operators, just like it sends a mixed
>> message to
>> request unnecessary extra time on tests and then ask for a
>> professor's
>> letter of recommendation.
>> Again, though I'm not a dog user, I think having a guide dog is
>> a
>> legitimate reason to not wait in lines.
>> Arielle
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member, National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
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>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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--
Kaiti
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