[nabs-l] NFB and Independence

Wed Apr 10 05:18:22 UTC 2013

I definitely plan to watch the speech, but his psychology sounds somewhat
accurate; for I have witnessed that amongst the Blind before.  However, it
also sounds somewhat like what a human does naturally.  It may be a little
more extreme amongst blind people but it sounds like an almost normal state.
Maybe not with everyone, but enough people to at least make a coralation.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:05 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence

Desiree,

I think what he was saying was more from a psychological perspective.
Arielle and anyone else studying psych more than I am can correct me
if I'm wrong, but I took his phases as more of a general statement.
You are right that it is different for everyone, but I also think the
timid, over-independent, and balanced phases manifest in different
ways for different people, and some might not have them in this order
or may not experience all of them.  I know a lot of people,
congenitally blind or newly blind, get nervous about crossing streets
or question their judgement when they're first learning things.  I'm
not quite sure if this is blindness-specific though, as I and other
sighted and blind people I know, most people in general I think, can
be timid the first time they do things too like starting college,
moving to a new housing situation, or for our sighted friends learning
things like how to drive a several ton metal machine.  I also don't
necessarily think the aggressive phase is really blindness-specific
either, as teenagers are notorious for doing the same thing blind or
sighted.  I do, however, believe in the balanced phase.  Although I
remember being a little timid while I was still learning skills, I
attribute it to me learning them more than my blindness playing the
main role.  I also went through a cocky phase a few years later when I
totally refused sighted guide and help from others while I was going
somewhere.  But now I feel like I have the right amount of caution and
confidence in my skills to be as independent as I want to be, make
appropriate choices about when to use and not use sighted guide, etc.
I don't necessarily think Kenneth Jernigan was slamming the students
or putting himself on a pedistal in comparison to their incompetence,
I took it more as just an analysis of psychological states.  It sounds
a little more pinpointed towards blindness than I really think it is,
but that was what I got out of it, more of an analysis of frames of
mind about blindness that effect independence than a slam against the
students.

On 4/11/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since you brought up the Nature of Independence, I would like to get
> some perspective on something that I honestly found to be quite
> offensive about the wording of that particular speech.
> When Kenneth Jernigan made this speech, he was addressing several
> letters from students who were attending the Louisiana Center. when he
> spoke of true independence, he implied strongly that although he was
> free to make the choices he made, which empowered him and made him
> independent, the students were incapable of making such decisions for
> themselves while they were in training. he basically said that
> students pass through phases as they learn blindness skills. The first
> is timidity and overcautiousness, to the point where the student
> doesn't trust themselves or their judgments; the second is
> aggressiveness, recklessness, and arrogance, where they defiantly
> refuse all vestiges of assistance to "prove" their independence, and,
> hopefully, the third is a balance between the two. Is this a fair
> summation? I believe it is.
> If so, I have a real problem with the notion that he is so sure that
> every student is alike, that every person who comes into training is
> hopeless, then completely changes into their alter-ego. First of all,
> for those of us who are congenitally blind, we have had time to adjust
> to our blindness. While some people may have unhealthy attitudes about
> it, the truth is, if you've been blind all your life, you can't
> exactly deny that. I feel that being condescending towards one's state
> of mind is not the way to win anyone over. I think that most people
> are rational enough to know when it's appropriate for them to ask for
> sighted guide, with some gentle guidance and prodding, of course. For
> a newly blind individual, this changes somewhat, but the truth is that
> everyone is different, and painting all students out to be, for lack
> of a better phrase, rebellious fools, isn't doing the NFB's image any
> favors. Students are people, too. Just because they're students
> doesn't make them any less human, at least, it shouldn't. And all
> humans have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may very
> well be as Jernigan described. Others can think through problems and
> situations logically as they arise. Still others may be overcome by
> emotion in unfamiliar situations, but once they realize they can do
> something a few times, their confidence may grow, but not to the point
> where their egoes inflate exponentially.
> I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this. I hope someone gives me
> a swift kick if I am. But if I'm not...if I truly read what I thought
> I did, there will always be a wall between me and the NFB. I mean,
> what if a newly blind individual is 45 years old and coming in for
> training? Do people really think that such a person will react in such
> a juvenile fashion?
>
> On 4/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
>> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
>> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which is
>> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
>> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
>> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
>> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
>> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
>> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient for
>> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others and
>> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
>> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
>> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>>
>> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
>> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
>> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
>> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
>> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be a
>> little better about not judging others who make different choices than
>> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
>> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
>> disagree here.
>> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
>> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
>> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
>> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
>> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
>> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
>> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
>> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
>> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
>> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
>> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
>> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
>> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
>> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we get
>> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
>> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
>> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
>> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
>> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
>> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be for
>> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not worth
>> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
>> know these things until we try them.
>> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
>> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
>> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help make
>> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
>> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
>> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
>> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
>> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
>> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
>> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
>> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
>> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
>> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
>> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
>> either on our own or with assistance.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.co
m
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmai
l.com
>

-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com