[nabs-l] NFB and Independence

Thu Apr 11 06:32:29 UTC 2013

Absolutely, goals are individual for a reason.  Everyone is going to
want to accomplish different things for themselves and in different
ways.  In most cases the way one chooses to do something isn't
necessarily wrong if it's different, and that's what we get so hooked
up on as others have already said in the thread.  I can't remember to
said it, (and I'm too lazy to go hunting for the person's name at past
2:00 in the morning), but someone on this list said that that was one
of the negative attributes of the NFB.  I kind of say yes and no to
this.  I have met some hard core
do-everything-on-your-own-or-else-you're-not-independent people in the
NFB, but I have also met plenty of awesome people who are very
independent by their own definitions and who make reasonable
judgements about what help they do or do not take, what things they
want to do, how they want to go about doing them, etc.  Overall, the
vision and philosophy of the NFB is good, I just think that like very
organization there are some who take things a little more literally
than others.  Because of this, I don't have a beef at all with the NFB
as an organization, even if I may view the super-independence thing as
over the top myself.

Sam, that's good to hear they encourage independence.  I know that for
some people just getting the motivation or the confidence to do
something on their own is a big deal, so it's great that they're
encouraging that in things like independent travel around the campus.

On 4/11/13, Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com> wrote:
> I agree with Kaiti about the phases we go through.
> I have been blind since birth and when I read the speech I nodded when
> he described the stages students at training center go through because
> I could point out times in my life that were relatable to those stages.
> The timing and form of it could be different for anyone but I think
> whether one is blind since birth or becomes blind in the middle of
> his/her life we go through different stages mentally.
> Lastly, whatever being a "successful blind person" may truly mean I
> think it's important to continue striving for improvement as an
> individual.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 10:05 pm
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB and Independence
>
> Desiree,
>
> I think what he was saying was more from a psychological perspective.
> Arielle and anyone else studying psych more than I am can correct me
> if I'm wrong, but I took his phases as more of a general statement.
> You are right that it is different for everyone, but I also think the
> timid, over-independent, and balanced phases manifest in different
> ways for different people, and some might not have them in this order
> or may not experience all of them.  I know a lot of people,
> congenitally blind or newly blind, get nervous about crossing streets
> or question their judgement when they're first learning things.  I'm
> not quite sure if this is blindness-specific though, as I and other
> sighted and blind people I know, most people in general I think, can
> be timid the first time they do things too like starting college,
> moving to a new housing situation, or for our sighted friends learning
> things like how to drive a several ton metal machine.  I also don't
> necessarily think the aggressive phase is really blindness-specific
> either, as teenagers are notorious for doing the same thing blind or
> sighted.  I do, however, believe in the balanced phase.  Although I
> remember being a little timid while I was still learning skills, I
> attribute it to me learning them more than my blindness playing the
> main role.  I also went through a cocky phase a few years later when I
> totally refused sighted guide and help from others while I was going
> somewhere.  But now I feel like I have the right amount of caution and
> confidence in my skills to be as independent as I want to be, make
> appropriate choices about when to use and not use sighted guide, etc.
> I don't necessarily think Kenneth Jernigan was slamming the students
> or putting himself on a pedistal in comparison to their incompetence,
> I took it more as just an analysis of psychological states.  It sounds
> a little more pinpointed towards blindness than I really think it is,
> but that was what I got out of it, more of an analysis of frames of
> mind about blindness that effect independence than a slam against the
> students.
>
> On 4/11/13, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since you brought up the Nature of Independence, I would like to get
>> some perspective on something that I honestly found to be quite
>> offensive about the wording of that particular speech.
>> When Kenneth Jernigan made this speech, he was addressing several
>> letters from students who were attending the Louisiana Center. when he
>> spoke of true independence, he implied strongly that although he was
>> free to make the choices he made, which empowered him and made him
>> independent, the students were incapable of making such decisions for
>> themselves while they were in training. he basically said that
>> students pass through phases as they learn blindness skills. The first
>> is timidity and overcautiousness, to the point where the student
>> doesn't trust themselves or their judgments; the second is
>> aggressiveness, recklessness, and arrogance, where they defiantly
>> refuse all vestiges of assistance to "prove" their independence, and,
>> hopefully, the third is a balance between the two. Is this a fair
>> summation? I believe it is.
>> If so, I have a real problem with the notion that he is so sure that
>> every student is alike, that every person who comes into training is
>> hopeless, then completely changes into their alter-ego. First of all,
>> for those of us who are congenitally blind, we have had time to adjust
>> to our blindness. While some people may have unhealthy attitudes about
>> it, the truth is, if you've been blind all your life, you can't
>> exactly deny that. I feel that being condescending towards one's state
>> of mind is not the way to win anyone over. I think that most people
>> are rational enough to know when it's appropriate for them to ask for
>> sighted guide, with some gentle guidance and prodding, of course. For
>> a newly blind individual, this changes somewhat, but the truth is that
>> everyone is different, and painting all students out to be, for lack
>> of a better phrase, rebellious fools, isn't doing the NFB's image any
>> favors. Students are people, too. Just because they're students
>> doesn't make them any less human, at least, it shouldn't. And all
>> humans have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Some may very
>> well be as Jernigan described. Others can think through problems and
>> situations logically as they arise. Still others may be overcome by
>> emotion in unfamiliar situations, but once they realize they can do
>> something a few times, their confidence may grow, but not to the point
>> where their egoes inflate exponentially.
>> I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this. I hope someone gives me
>> a swift kick if I am. But if I'm not...if I truly read what I thought
>> I did, there will always be a wall between me and the NFB. I mean,
>> what if a newly blind individual is 45 years old and coming in for
>> training? Do people really think that such a person will react in such
>> a juvenile fashion?
>>
>> On 4/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Kenneth Jernigan, who was president of the NFB for 18 years and had a
>>> huge influence on the organization's philosophical approach to
>>> blindness, wrote a speech titled "The Nature of Independence" which
> is
>>> available on the NFB website. I won't post it here since it is quite
>>> long, but will just summarize what I got out of hearing it. Jernigan
>>> talked about times when he, as a blind man, would walk with sighted
>>> guides, such as holding the arm of his secretary while walking with
>>> her and in conversation. He said that he did this from time to time,
>>> not because he needed the help, but because it was more convenient
> for
>>> both of them. He stated that one can accept assistance from others
> and
>>> still remain independent. Specifically, he defined independence as:
>>> The ability to travel whenever you want, wherever you want, with a
>>> minimum of inconvenience to yourself and others.
>>>
>>> To me, that definition sounds similar to those that some of you are
>>> espousing. I think before we bash the NFB too much on this point, we
>>> should bear in mind where Jernigan was coming from. In fact, I think
>>> most if not all of us in the NFB agree that independence is the
>>> freedom to choose when, and what kind of help, to get. We can all be
> a
>>> little better about not judging others who make different choices
> than
>>> what we would make, and some judgmental folks have tainted the NFB's
>>> reputation in this regard. But I really think we agree more than we
>>> disagree here.
>>> I believe that all people can seek help with things and still remain
>>> independent. But I also think that being blind, by itself, shouldn't
>>> change our standard of independence. I personally like doing the same
>>> kinds of things that other 28-year-olds do, so I don't want to be
>>> called super-blind because I do typical things like living with my
>>> fiancee and sharing cooking duties with him, or walking independently
>>> around campus. And I think that whenever we do accept help with
>>> something, there is always a trade-off where we have to give up
>>> something. Sometimes we have to pay for help, like paying a taxi
>>> driver or a restaurant to cook our food. Sometimes it's a time
>>> sacrifice, like having to wait for a ride or a guide in order to go
>>> somewhere. Other times the sacrifices are more subtle losses of
>>> freedom, like if we choose to live somewhere that makes rules about
>>> whether or not we can have overnight guests. Sometimes the help we
> get
>>> is worth the sacrifice, but other times it's not, because the
>>> inconvenience on ourselves or others is too great. Finally, I believe
>>> that in order to make knowledgeable decisions about what we really
>>> need help doing, and what we don't, we should get decent training. If
>>> someone always has another person do their laundry because they never
>>> tried doing it themself, they will never know how easy it might be
> for
>>> them. If they try it, they might discover that actually it's not
> worth
>>> the sacrifice and that they prefer doing it themself, but we never
>>> know these things until we try them.
>>> I personally think there are many sighted people, and some blind
>>> people, who would benefit greatly from a supported living community
>>> like Friedman Place. Offering these communities could really help
> make
>>> a dent in national crises like homelessness, poverty and ccrime. I
>>> think there are many other populations in this country who need a
>>> place like Friedman far more than blind people do. And while I don't
>>> fault those who choose to go to Friedman, I would submit that there
>>> are sacrifices and trade-offs involved. You get low-cost housing,
>>> cooked food and companionship, but you lose control over most of your
>>> spending money, have to sign out to leave the premises and the hot
>>> date you bring home has to pass a background check. I think these are
>>> small sacrifices, but I also think that living on one's own, and
>>> especially getting training in daily living skills and job skills,
>>> gives us the flexibility to handle all kinds of life situations,
>>> either on our own or with assistance.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
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>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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-- 
Kaiti