[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

justin williams justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 12 02:42:57 UTC 2013 

Do you have crud in between the keys?  Is there a way you can clean that?
You can also try plugging in a regular keyboard.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 12:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

It's obvious I need to see what's going on with my keyboard.  I'm pressing
keys, but sometimes they aren't typing the letters, as you all just saw.  My
laptop didn't do this before, does anybody know what might be causing this
really random and kind of irritating problem?

On 4/12/13, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brandon,
>   Give it ten or fifteen more years of widespread testing in all sorts 
> of environments and I'll agree with you.  I think it will probably 
> happen...but, like, if this wa a computer program, we aren't even in 
> public beta yet, and that's probably at least a few years down the 
> line.  Furthermore, I think it will take several years, at least, with 
> the cars being widely driven in the public before society at large 
> accepts us blind folks driving them.  It probably will happen 
> _eventually_, but I'm still not willing to bank on it.  It'll be 
> interesting to follow this as it develops over the next couple 
> decades, though, and see what happens.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 4/12/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Google is supportive of having blind drivers, they have come to 
>> events and shown blind folks the car. I've sat in quite a few, 
>> although I've never been
>>
>> in one while it has been driven. I'd think it will be exactly like 
>> being a passenger of a sighted driver, but without the crazy 
>> breakings every few minutes and the heart attacks the sighted drivers 
>> constantly face.
>> Frankly, I would trust the Google Car way more than I would trust my 
>> mom as
>>
>> the driver. Computers are much more reliable than humans in my opinion.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: christopher nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:03 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>
>> As it stands, he's going to need a sighted driver in the car who can 
>> take the wheel when the need arises. But Google will have to fix this 
>> if they're hoping for a blind person to drive it independently.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Chris, Kirt and everyone else on this thread,
>>>
>>> You guys are right in saying that, one need not pass judgement 
>>> without fully experiencing this machine in Wonderland. it's true we 
>>> don't have all
>>>
>>> the information. And, I think it's right when you say the thing 
>>> doesn't murge onto the freeway. What happens to the driving blink if 
>>> he dares to usese se the interstate? usese the freeway? 4/12/2013, 
>>> christopher nusbaum
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you. Before we make any judgments on the Google car, 
>>>> we must remember that it is still in the planning stages and that  
>>>> all Google cars that have been tested so far are no more than
prototypes.
>>>> This is evidenced by the need for the Google car to be taken over 
>>>> by human driver when it pulls off the highway, as the story which 
>>>> someone reposted here mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> Carly, we must also take into account that some blind people don't 
>>>> live in areas where public transportation is easily available, such 
>>>> as Boston or New York City. I, for instance, live in a semi rural 
>>>> town in Maryland, where our only options For public transportation 
>>>> are paratransit and a cab service. As you can imagine, neither of 
>>>> these options are preferable Because of the cost if not the 
>>>> reliability. For this reason, I would love the independence that 
>>>> the Google car might give me in this area.
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Kirt Manwaring 
>>>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Patrick,
>>>> >  If it's time they want, I'm willing to give it.  I hope you're 
>>>> > right; we'll have to wait and see.  I guess my only point was 
>>>> > that this thing isn't right around the corner; while it's 
>>>> > realisticly viable now, it's still probably a long ways off 
>>>> > before we'll be able to drive.  Where the google car is now is 
>>>> > probably comparable to where the internet was thirty or so years 
>>>> > ago; people could see the possibilities, it was realistic and 
>>>> > people "in the know" were probably aware it was coming...but it 
>>>> > still had a long way to go before it was viable to the general 
>>>> > public.
>>>> >  And, Patrick, you're probably right that airplane pilots don't 
>>>> > have to manually control the plane very much between takeoff and
landing.
>>>> > Still, I can almost guarantee you they are paying very close 
>>>> > attention in the event something goes wrong.
>>>> >  Carley,
>>>> >  I don't really see anything inherently wrong or undesirable 
>>>> > about driving.  In most places it is probably more efficient than 
>>>> > public transport.  Of course there are exceptions; New York city 
>>>> > comes to mind, for instance.  Still, living where I do now, I 
>>>> > would totally jump on the chance to drive if I could and it were 
>>>> > realistic and safe, at least most of the time.  That being said, 
>>>> > it's far enough away that I'm definitely not going to stop riding 
>>>> > my busses and trains any time soon.
>>>> >  Best,
>>>> > Kirt
>>>> >
>>>> > On 4/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> Count me in.  I'm driving.   No wait; not driving, drivin.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> >> Carly Mihalakis
>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:33 PM
>>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; 
>>>> >> National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi, List,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On the other hand, for my whole life I have watched sighted folk 
>>>> >> seem to agonize over so much turmoil, and hostility towrd their 
>>>> >> fellow man, as they drive. I have always been grateful not 
>>>> >> having that crap to contend with. Besides, I am not confident 
>>>> >> about chances of ever affording such a car. And, I don't care 
>>>> >> about the principles personal cars supposedly afford. Where can 
>>>> >> they take you that a bus, train, or friend/driver cannot?
>>>> >>  Ultimately, i believe traveling from point A to point B, oughta 
>>>> >> be a communal affair. Leave the driving to ol' Sighty!
>>>> >> So no, on the car!
>>>> >> Car At 06:23 PM 4/11/2013, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>> >>> I can't wait to see these google cars come out. It will be a 
>>>> >>> major milestone in the independence and assimulation of blind 
>>>> >>> people in sighted society. My only worry is that the sighties 
>>>> >>> won't trust us to drive, even (maybe especially) if the car was 
>>>> >>> computer-controlled. Even my boyfriend, who is blind, says he 
>>>> >>> will never trust a self-propelled car. Our trouble will be 
>>>> >>> convincing them that it's safe for us and for others on the road.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:02:08 -0700
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hello,
>>>> >>> The reason why the Google Car is Superior is because it is 
>>>> >>> already going mainstream, it has a major company behind it and 
>>>> >>> there is nothing wrong
>>>> >> with
>>>> >>> backing both cars.
>>>> >>> The big debate will be if people want to drive under their own 
>>>> >>> control or a computers. It is not unlike reading Braille or 
>>>> >>> using a screen reader
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >> read
>>>> >>> a book. Braille is all fine and dandy, but a screen reader is 
>>>> >>> very important. The difference is the Google car is going 
>>>> >>> mainstream and will have mainstreem support. It would be the 
>>>> >>> same if Jaws went mainstreem
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> and
>>>> >>> companies like Google started making units that used Jaws and 
>>>> >>> no screen.
>>>> >>> Braille would be useful, but not particularly necessary for 
>>>> >>> most common tasks.
>>>> >>> If one used a car on city roads and highways, there would be 
>>>> >>> very little or no need to manually drive. If one wanted to map 
>>>> >>> a long driveway or country road, one would need to manually 
>>>> >>> drive it till the road could be completely entered into the 
>>>> >>> database.
>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: Sophie Trist
>>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:37 PM
>>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Brandon, I totally 100% agree!!! However, didn't the NFB invent 
>>>> >>> a self-propelled car of sorts? If so, it might be hard to 
>>>> >>> convince them to back the google car unless we can prove theirs 
>>>> >>> is superior.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:05:01 -0700
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hello,
>>>> >>> Yes in a way, the logistics of liability still need to be taken 
>>>> >>> into account I'm sure and licensing probably still needs to be 
>>>> >>> worked out, but if the government officials are pushed, it will 
>>>> >>> happen very soon.
>>>> >>> I think the NFB should push for these quite hard. Perhaps they 
>>>> >>> could even ask that a car come to the convention, I think 
>>>> >>> Google would take the challenge.
>>>> >>> Thanks,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: Justin Young
>>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:13 AM
>>>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So does this mean these vehicles will soon be on the market for 
>>>> >>> individuals to purchase in Nevada?  Sounds like a very 
>>>> >>> interesting project.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 4/11/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>> Google's self-driven cars will soon be appearing on Nevada 
>>>> >>> roads after the state's Department of Motor Vehicles approved 
>>>> >>> on Monday the nation's first autonomous vehicle license.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The move came after officials rode along on drives on highways, 
>>>> >>> in Carson City neighborhoods and along the famous Las Vegas 
>>>> >>> Strip, the Nevada DMV said in a statement.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The Nevada legislature last year authorized self-driven cars 
>>>> >>> for the state's roads, the first such law in the United States. 
>>>> >>> That law went into effect on March 1, 2012.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Google's self-driven cars rely on video cameras, radar sensors, 
>>>> >>> lasers, and a database of information collected from manually 
>>>> >>> driven cars to help navigate, according to the company.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The DMV licensed a Toyota Prius that Google modified with its 
>>>> >>> experimental driver-less technology, developed by Stanford 
>>>> >>> professor and Google Vice President Sebastian Thrun.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Google's self-driving cars have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge 
>>>> >>> and driven along the picturesque Pacific Coast Highway, 
>>>> >>> according to the company.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Autonomous vehicles are the "car of the future," Nevada DMV 
>>>> >>> director Bruce Breslow said in a statement. The state also has 
>>>> >>> plans to eventually license autonomous vehicles owned by the 
>>>> >>> members of the public, the DMV said.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Legislation to regulate autonomous cars is being considered in 
>>>> >>> other states, including Google's home state of California.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> "The vast majority of vehicle accidents are due to human error.
>>>> >>> Through
>>>> >>> the use of computers, sensors and other systems, an autonomous 
>>>> >>> vehicle is capable of analyzing the driving environment more 
>>>> >>> quickly and operating the vehicle more safely," California 
>>>> >>> state Senator Alex Padilla said in March when he introduced 
>>>> >>> that state's autonomous car legislation.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Other car companies are also seeking self-driven car licenses 
>>>> >>> in Nevada, the DMV said.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
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