[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Suzanne Germano sgermano at asu.edu
Wed Apr 17 01:41:06 UTC 2013


I am pretty sure equipment bought for your training through VR can be
signed over to you if it is needed for the job.


On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Kaiti Shelton
<crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> That is something I could see happening, but as Arielle said I don't
> think if given the choice I would go for it.  I'm not sure about what
> other state agencies do, but in Ohio you have to sign loan agreements
> for everything they get you so you know that it's their property.
> They don't really buy it for you, they buy it so you can use it and
> give it back once your case is closed, even if it might take you years
> to save up to buy a decent laptop or a notetaker of your own with a
> starting salary of 40,00 or less.  I wouldn't like for something to
> happen in the state government and have them take my car away, or say,
> "Well you got a job now... we would have closed your case but since
> you have this car from us you have to continue to keep all the
> requirements even though you've already met your employment goals."
> It just seems like it would be messy to me if it happened that way.
>
> On 4/16/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It would be interesting if vocational rehab started paying for Google
> > Cars just like they currently pay for expensive Braille Notes and
> > such. In a way that would be good, since having a car could increase
> > employment prospects, but it could also deepen the dependence many of
> > us feel on government agencies. "Pick a vocational goal that I think
> > you should have, and wait a few months for me to drag my feet on it,
> > or you won't get an autonomous car!" might be the stated or implied
> > directive of a VR counselor. We are already finding ourselves bending
> > over backwards to satisfy VR's bureaucratic requirements and counselor
> > idiosyncrasies in order to have technology or training funded.
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 4/16/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I find myself agreeing with several points.
> >>
> >> First, by my posts about the costs I was trying to put it into
> >> perspective that for most of us, the car being so expensive might not
> >> be worth it until the price comes down simply because most working
> >> families have 2 cars because multiple people need to be in different
> >> places at the same time.  I agree with Kirt that even after this thing
> >> is out we'll probably have to wait a fairly long time till the price
> >> is reasonable.  Second, we're not sure yet just how autonymous this
> >> car is.  Even though it might drive itself most of the way, I could
> >> very well see it needing instruction to take detours if needed.  Say,
> >> for instance, that you've chartered your course for your car remotely
> >> and you just want it to drive itself to come pick you up somewhere.
> >> Somewhere along the way it gets low on gas and doesn't have anyone or
> >> anything to tell it to pause en route to find the nearest gas station.
> >>  And even then, who would be there to fill up the tank and tell the
> >> car to resume the route?  Just hypotheticals worth some consideration,
> >> since this whole thread is pretty hypothetical.  Also, even if a car
> >> dropped one spouse off and went to get the other it would be a lot of
> >> driving around.  Another hypothetical; lets say a blind couple lives
> >> in a house, with one office five miles to the north and another five
> >> miles to the south.  I realize these are very small measurements, but
> >> just for the sake of thinking about this we'll go with it.  One person
> >> needs to be to work by eight, so the car drives ten miles to the
> >> office and back.  Then it leaves again and drives five more miles to
> >> drop the other person off.  When the person who got to work by eight
> >> needs to leave, the car would drive another ten miles to get them and
> >> another five to get home, then another ten miles to pick up the other
> >> person and bring them home.  That's 40 miles in a day.  Now, say the
> >> couple each has their own cars, which each drive just ten miles a day
> >> going back and forth to work.  That's half the driving, half the gas,
> >> and although there are 2 cars on  the road instead of one, less
> >> emissions that are not healthy for the environment.  What I was saying
> >> was that in order for this to really work for most families the cars
> >> would have to be affordable enough so people could have two at once,
> >> otherwise the car would incurr other expenses on top of the already
> >> heightened cost and it wouldn't be worth it.
> >> I do agree with William too that this is not necessarily the top
> >> priority we have to deal with, but I don't necessarily see it as a
> >> negative thing.  I agree with Chris that it will probably help some
> >> people get jobs... I've mentioned that I'm in a line of work in which
> >> the ability for me to drive would be marketable.  I think both these
> >> statements are right, but Arielle's point of widening the gap between
> >> the employed and unemployed was really concerning to me too.  I could
> >> in some ways see how this might be a deterrent to employers, as in the
> >> following:  Employer: "Thank you for coming in today, I'll call you
> >> once the other interviews are finished.  One more question, can you
> >> drive one of those Google cars?  We could really use someone in our
> >> area across town."  Interviewee: "I can't afford one yet.  I'm hoping
> >> to save up for one though."  In this case, the employer's expectation
> >> of blind people being able to have the Google cars might weigh in the
> >> interviewee's favor, because he might have interviewed him with the
> >> intention of having him drive the google car to complete the tasks of
> >> the job.  I think there are a lot of complicated positives and
> >> negatives to consider.
> >>
> >> On 4/16/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> >>> Good morning Chris and everyone,
> >>>
> >>>     Absolutely! It will also open up jobs currently closed to us.
> Should
> >>> you
> >>>
> >>> become a cab or a limousine driver who uses the technology the NFB
> >>> developed
> >>>
> >>> when we visit your community we'll be sure to request you as our limo
> >>> driver
> >>>
> >>> or will be sure to call you directly so we'll get you as our personal
> >>> cab
> >>> driver. We all ready do this here in San Antonio. There's a cab driver
> >>> we
> >>> use regularly. We have his cell phone number and call him directly
> >>> whenever
> >>>
> >>> we need transportation.
> >>>
> >>> Peter Donahue
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:01 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But do you think our ability to drive may increase our employment rate?
> >>>
> >>> Chris Nusbaum
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:40 AM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Just my own two sense:
> >>>> I do not care, if the automated car offers us hot coffee! That or a
> car
> >>>> with extra clothes will not be parked with my name on it.
> >>>> I am not out to shoot-down someones dream.  I am all for innovation;
> >>>> however, we need to fix our problems within our society a bit more.
>  If
> >>>> blind people overall had more stability with a greater respect as
> whole
> >>>> individuals, employed at a 80% rate, then I would advocate us as
> >>>> drivers.
> >>>> I could just here the advertizement:
> >>>> Were you in a accident, maybe with a blind person while driving, call
> >>>> (800)lawyers.  Sorry for being cynical, I think time and resources
> need
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>> be properly prioritized.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Joshua, the NFB car requires intricate vests and lots of other
> complex
> >>>>> equipment. The google car offers us the option of driving an
> >>>>> autonomous
> >>>>> vehicle without all the excess gear. Blind people have enough baggage
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>
> >>>>> is. We don't need special driving clothes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:49:18 +0000
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It was on the runway at Daytona, two years ago.
> >>>>> The car should be out by 2016.
> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie Trist
> >>>>> [sweetpeareader at gmail.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:44 AM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Joshua, I guess I can't talk much about this since I never
> >>>>> actually saw the NFB car in action, but from what I've heard,
> >>>>> that autonomous vehicle was a bit disappointing. Besides, I've
> >>>>> only heard about it one time, at convention a few years ago.
> >>>>> Since then, nothing has been heard of the NFB car--it's just
> >>>>> disappeared. Right now, the google car is looking a lot more
> >>>>> promising. I support the NFB to my core, but if there's another
> >>>>> product that serves better than an NFB product (like a Revolution
> >>>>> cane, for example) I won't hesitate to get it. Also, I have one
> >>>>> question about the google cars. Do they run on gas or
> >>>>> electricity?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:25:35 +0000
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wow, Peter!
> >>>>> Like minds huh?
> >>>>> I just posted this same link on here a few minutes ago!
> >>>>> Thanks, Joshua
> >>>>> ________________________________________
> >>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Peter
> >>>>> Donahue [pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:23 PM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Good afternoon one more time everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Better yet visit http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  There's lots of information about our efforts to develop this
> >>>>> technology
> >>>>> along with videos showing a blind person driving the car on the
> >>>>> track at
> >>>>> Daytona Beach. The technology and the possibilities have all
> >>>>> ready been
> >>>>> demonstrated. I also understand that several blind individuals
> >>>>> have driven
> >>>>> the car on the streets of Baltimore with success.We all need to
> >>>>> unite and
> >>>>> work with whomever will partner with us be it Google or someone
> >>>>> else to
> >>>>> insure that any self-driving vehicle that is developed is
> >>>>> controllable by a
> >>>>> blind person and that our right to operate such vehicles is
> >>>>> protected. We
> >>>>> don't need the very people who stand to benefit from the freedom
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> empowerment such a vehicle could give us undermining such a noble
> >>>>> initiative.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peter Donahue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:36 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Amen, Patrick!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
> >>>>> Public Relations Committee
> >>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
> >>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >>>>> Patrick Molloy
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:27 PM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm sorry Ashley, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree
> >>>>> with you.
> >>>>> When NTSB executives are saying that autonomous cars are the way
> >>>>> to go,
> >>>>> don't you think they deserve some credence? I honestly lost faith
> >>>>> in the NFB
> >>>>> car. Sure it was "made for blind people," but you barely ever saw
> >>>>> the thing!
> >>>>> If you're going to make a car for the blind, don't hide it away
> >>>>> from the
> >>>>> public and then give no explanation when it essentially
> >>>>> disappears. I'm not
> >>>>> saying that the Google car would be perfect. I'm not fooling
> >>>>> myself with
> >>>>> that idea. But, I think that the technology is really impressive
> >>>>> and, with
> >>>>> some modifications, it will be great for blind people. But hey!
> >>>>> If you want
> >>>>> to always wait around for a driver, or a bus, or paratransit,
> >>>>> more power to
> >>>>> you. It just seems like this all runs counter to the philosophy
> >>>>> that many
> >>>>> people within the NFB preach daily. As for your arguments as to
> >>>>> why blind
> >>>>> people shouldn't drive, I think if you read the articles about
> >>>>> the potential
> >>>>> of autonomous cars, you'll find most if not all of your fears
> >>>>> more or less
> >>>>> assuaged. Just because something SEEMS difficult is no reason for
> >>>>> us blind
> >>>>> people to avoid it like the plague. That would be ridiculous! If
> >>>>> I decide
> >>>>> not to get this car, it would only be after I'd tried it out and
> >>>>> found it
> >>>>> not to my liking. Since the NFB car is more or less dead, I feel
> >>>>> that we as
> >>>>> blind people have a responsibility to get behind the Google car
> >>>>> in one way
> >>>>> or another.
> >>>>> Isn't that what the NFB always says? That they're there for blind
> >>>>> people
> >>>>> when we need something? Well, we need to get around and we're
> >>>>> tired of
> >>>>> waiting like kids for our parents to pick us up from soccer
> >>>>> practice! If
> >>>>> we're going to be independent, successful individuals, then we
> >>>>> should have
> >>>>> the right to get around just like our sighted colleagues.
> >>>>> Separate is not
> >>>>> equal in this case. You may never drive this thing, and you may
> >>>>> think it
> >>>>> ridiculous, but I highly encourage people like yourself and Carly
> >>>>> to at
> >>>>> least consider the point of view of those of us who want to drive
> >>>>> like our
> >>>>> brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. You may think us
> >>>>> self-serving,
> >>>>> but doesn't that make sighted people self-serving? I mean, they
> >>>>> can take a
> >>>>> bus too! The issue here is choice. We shouldn't HAVE to take a
> >>>>> bus if we
> >>>>> don't want to wait 2 hours. Now, if it's a nice day and you've
> >>>>> got time to
> >>>>> kill, hey! Spend 5 hours going to the doctor! But we should have
> >>>>> the same
> >>>>> freedom that all sighted people have. With that freedom will come
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> realization that blind people can do the same things as sighted
> >>>>> people.
> >>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/14/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>> I haven't read all this thread much. But from what I read, it
> >>>>> seems
> >>>>> like you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> all believe the car would provide more transit options and you'd
> >>>>> buy
> >>>>> one if
> >>>>>
> >>>>> given a choice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know the problems in the bus system; I've seen them and ridden
> >>>>> paratransit
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and felt its impact of unreliability and lateness.
> >>>>> That said, I think other methods of travel are more efficient
> >>>>> and safe.
> >>>>> Things like cabs, car pools, getting rides with friends when you
> >>>>> want
> >>>>> to hang out, and hiring a driver would be better.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do not support blind people driving because we cannot see to
> >>>>> override the
> >>>>>
> >>>>> car.
> >>>>> I have to agree with the individual that said that having a car
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> self serving. We are putting other lives at risk.
> >>>>> We face many obstacles on the rode like other cars wipping in
> >>>>> front of
> >>>>> us when its not their turn; cars inching along not going the
> >>>>> speed
> >>>>> limit and you got to move around them, waiting for pedestrians
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> walk, rode rage, and
> >>>>>
> >>>>> drunk drivers.
> >>>>> Without vision, we cannot! intervene the computerized car to
> >>>>> override
> >>>>> it when obstacles arise.
> >>>>> I cannot tell you how many times my parents slammed on the
> >>>>> brakes due
> >>>>> to some driver wipping out in front of them, drivers who
> >>>>> unexpectedly
> >>>>> turn without turning on their turn signal like their supposed
> >>>>> to,
> >>>>> pedestrians who
> >>>>>
> >>>>> are still walking across the street when the orange don't walk
> >>>>> signal
> >>>>> is on
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thus making cars wait, having to swerve around bicyclists, and
> >>>>> distracted drivers on cell phones.
> >>>>> All these obstacles create hazards which a human driver with
> >>>>> eyes
> >>>>> needs to see and make a quick judgement and use reflexes to act
> >>>>> upon
> >>>>> unexpected hazards.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, yeah, when you all can afford a new google car, go right
> >>>>> ahead and
> >>>>> you never know who might be hurt if you even get a license. I
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> don't want to
> >>>>>
> >>>>> be on the road with you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the nfb car sounded safer and it was built for blind
> >>>>> people,
> >>>>> but we
> >>>>>
> >>>>> abandoned that project, probably cause of money.
> >>>>> Ashley
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:08 PM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't see it as self-serving either... in my experience with
> >>>>> buses I
> >>>>> have to agree with Sophie here.  Plus, some parts of town that I
> >>>>> need
> >>>>> to go either aren't served by buses, or take a really long time
> >>>>> to get
> >>>>> to which sometimes involves going in the opposite way of the
> >>>>> destination for a while and then circling back because of
> >>>>> Dayton's bus
> >>>>> system.  (It's organized by buses going north-south and
> >>>>> east-west, but
> >>>>> sometimes when you're at a stop the time of the bus won't tell
> >>>>> you if
> >>>>> the bus is going north or south, or east or west so you have to
> >>>>> roll
> >>>>> with it.  I'd much rather just get into a car and drive than
> >>>>> boomerang
> >>>>> around the city just to get to one place, and then do it again
> >>>>> returning to school.  And because of this, and the fact that it
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> bus system isn't exactly equivalent to a car, I don't consider
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> self-serving either.  I have no problem in supporting it and
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> programs of public transit for people who can't drive a car,
> >>>>> which
> >>>>> more often are people who are low income, have a suspended
> >>>>> license, or
> >>>>> who are inner-city, or elderly than blind, but if I and other
> >>>>> blind
> >>>>> people can afford a car and want one I don't see anything
> >>>>> self-serving
> >>>>> in that, it's just doing what is most efficient.  I actually
> >>>>> think not
> >>>>> taking advantage of this opportunity on the basis that the less
> >>>>> than
> >>>>> efficient public transit systems work fine and that other people
> >>>>> can
> >>>>> use the money or whatever that would go into buying this car
> >>>>> would be
> >>>>> like saying you'd pass up going to college even though you could
> >>>>> because other people can be served by your tuition money, and
> >>>>> the high
> >>>>> school diploma would serve you just fine.  It's more efficient,
> >>>>> so why
> >>>>> not do it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sophie, I too see it more as an investment in independence.  :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 4/14/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Im buying this damn car the first chance I get. I'd rather be
> >>>>> self
> >>>>> serving and frivolous and drive to some place within 20 minutes
> >>>>> instead of sitting on the bus for three hours, or more,
> >>>>> depending on
> >>>>> if the driver didn't call my stop and I'd be riding extra long.
> >>>>> Here
> >>>>> in chicagothat isn't a problem but I used to live in Tallahassee
> >>>>> FL
> >>>>> where there was no automated system to tell you where you were.
> >>>>> So
> >>>>> yes, I'd much rather be self serving and save up. Besides, as I
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> said before in a previous message, this technology is driving
> >>>>> along
> >>>>> the streets of Nevada. I'm so excited that I'm even grinning and
> >>>>> daydreaming about driving along side of a bus, and happy that
> >>>>> I'm
> >>>>> frivolous enough to pay for a self serving device that will
> >>>>> allowfor
> >>>>> me to get to the office quicker, or to an interview on time,
> >>>>> thus
> >>>>> allowing me to have greater chances to pay my taxes so you other
> >>>>> non
> >>>>> self serving blind people can take the bus. I think it's a neat
> >>>>> little circle of irony, don't you think? LOL!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> t104
> >>>>> %40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Kaiti
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>>
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> >>> nabs-l:
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kaiti
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> nabs-l:
> >>
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Kaiti
>
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