[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 16 12:09:42 UTC 2013
In south Carolina you keep the equipment as long as you are employed. I no
that most other states do that because you couldn't do the job if they
didn't.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:49 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
Justin,
Did you look that up? I'm just curious to know if that's a national thing,
and if so would that mean everything they bought you goes back to them or
would they be able to sign stuff over to you as Suzanne suggested?
I'm asking because my impression of it was once your case is closed they
take everything back, because technically if you're gainfully employed you
have the capability of saving up and buying your own equipment. It would
kind of suck if you needed something, like a laptop, for your job and
wouldn't be able to get a new one within that
90 day period to replace it. If you don't know all that it's fine though,
just thought I'd try to see what you found out.
On 4/15/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 90 days after employment and your case is closed.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> Shelton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 9:15 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>
> Hi all,
>
> That is something I could see happening, but as Arielle said I don't
> think if given the choice I would go for it. I'm not sure about what
> other state agencies do, but in Ohio you have to sign loan agreements
> for everything they get you so you know that it's their property.
> They don't really buy it for you, they buy it so you can use it and
> give it back once your case is closed, even if it might take you years
> to save up to buy a decent laptop or a notetaker of your own with a
> starting salary of 40,00 or less. I wouldn't like for something to
> happen in the state government and have them take my car away, or say,
> "Well you got a job now... we would have closed your case but since
> you have this car from us you have to continue to keep all the
> requirements even though you've already met your employment goals."
> It just seems like it would be messy to me if it happened that way.
>
> On 4/16/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It would be interesting if vocational rehab started paying for Google
>> Cars just like they currently pay for expensive Braille Notes and
>> such. In a way that would be good, since having a car could increase
>> employment prospects, but it could also deepen the dependence many of
>> us feel on government agencies. "Pick a vocational goal that I think
>> you should have, and wait a few months for me to drag my feet on it,
>> or you won't get an autonomous car!" might be the stated or implied
>> directive of a VR counselor. We are already finding ourselves bending
>> over backwards to satisfy VR's bureaucratic requirements and
>> counselor idiosyncrasies in order to have technology or training funded.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 4/16/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I find myself agreeing with several points.
>>>
>>> First, by my posts about the costs I was trying to put it into
>>> perspective that for most of us, the car being so expensive might
>>> not be worth it until the price comes down simply because most
>>> working families have 2 cars because multiple people need to be in
>>> different places at the same time. I agree with Kirt that even
>>> after this thing is out we'll probably have to wait a fairly long
>>> time till the price is reasonable. Second, we're not sure yet just
>>> how autonymous this car is. Even though it might drive itself most
>>> of the way, I could very well see it needing instruction to take
>>> detours if needed. Say, for instance, that you've chartered your
>>> course for your car remotely and you just want it to drive itself to
come pick you up somewhere.
>>> Somewhere along the way it gets low on gas and doesn't have anyone
>>> or anything to tell it to pause en route to find the nearest gas
station.
>>> And even then, who would be there to fill up the tank and tell the
>>> car to resume the route? Just hypotheticals worth some
>>> consideration, since this whole thread is pretty hypothetical.
>>> Also, even if a car dropped one spouse off and went to get the other
>>> it would be a lot of driving around. Another hypothetical; lets say
>>> a blind couple lives in a house, with one office five miles to the
>>> north and another five miles to the south. I realize these are very
>>> small measurements, but just for the sake of thinking about this
>>> we'll go with it. One person needs to be to work by eight, so the
>>> car drives ten miles to the office and back. Then it leaves again
>>> and drives five more miles to drop the other person off. When the
>>> person who got to work by eight needs to leave, the car would drive
>>> another ten miles to get them and another five to get home, then
>>> another ten miles to pick up the other person and bring them home.
>>> That's 40 miles in a day. Now, say the couple each has their own
>>> cars, which each drive just ten miles a day going back and forth to
>>> work. That's half the driving, half the gas, and although there are
>>> 2 cars on the road instead of one, less emissions that are not
>>> healthy for the environment. What I was saying was that in order
>>> for this to really work for most families the cars would have to be
>>> affordable enough so people could have two at once, otherwise the
>>> car would incurr other expenses on top of the already heightened cost
and it wouldn't be worth it.
>>> I do agree with William too that this is not necessarily the top
>>> priority we have to deal with, but I don't necessarily see it as a
>>> negative thing. I agree with Chris that it will probably help some
>>> people get jobs... I've mentioned that I'm in a line of work in
>>> which the ability for me to drive would be marketable. I think both
>>> these statements are right, but Arielle's point of widening the gap
>>> between the employed and unemployed was really concerning to me too.
>>> I could in some ways see how this might be a deterrent to employers,
>>> as in the
>>> following: Employer: "Thank you for coming in today, I'll call you
>>> once the other interviews are finished. One more question, can you
>>> drive one of those Google cars? We could really use someone in our
>>> area across town." Interviewee: "I can't afford one yet. I'm
>>> hoping to save up for one though." In this case, the employer's
>>> expectation of blind people being able to have the Google cars might
>>> weigh in the interviewee's favor, because he might have interviewed
>>> him with the intention of having him drive the google car to
>>> complete the tasks of the job. I think there are a lot of
>>> complicated positives and negatives to consider.
>>>
>>> On 4/16/13, Peter Donahue <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> Good morning Chris and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely! It will also open up jobs currently closed to us.
>>>> Should
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>> become a cab or a limousine driver who uses the technology the NFB
>>>> developed
>>>>
>>>> when we visit your community we'll be sure to request you as our
>>>> limo driver
>>>>
>>>> or will be sure to call you directly so we'll get you as our
>>>> personal cab driver. We all ready do this here in San Antonio.
>>>> There's a cab driver we use regularly. We have his cell phone
>>>> number and call him directly whenever
>>>>
>>>> we need transportation.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "christopher nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 6:01 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But do you think our ability to drive may increase our employment rate?
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:40 AM, wmodnl wmodnl <wmodnl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just my own two sense:
>>>>> I do not care, if the automated car offers us hot coffee! That or
>>>>> a car with extra clothes will not be parked with my name on it.
>>>>> I am not out to shoot-down someones dream. I am all for
>>>>> innovation; however, we need to fix our problems within our society a
bit more.
>>>>> If
>>>>> blind people overall had more stability with a greater respect as
>>>>> whole individuals, employed at a 80% rate, then I would advocate
>>>>> us as drivers.
>>>>> I could just here the advertizement:
>>>>> Were you in a accident, maybe with a blind person while driving,
>>>>> call (800)lawyers. Sorry for being cynical, I think time and
>>>>> resources need to
>>>>>
>>>>> be properly prioritized.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, "Sophie Trist"
>>>>> <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua, the NFB car requires intricate vests and lots of other
>>>>>> complex equipment. The google car offers us the option of driving
>>>>>> an autonomous vehicle without all the excess gear. Blind people
>>>>>> have enough baggage as
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is. We don't need special driving clothes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:49:18 +0000
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was on the runway at Daytona, two years ago.
>>>>>> The car should be out by 2016.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sophie
>>>>>> Trist [sweetpeareader at gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 6:44 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua, I guess I can't talk much about this since I never
>>>>>> actually saw the NFB car in action, but from what I've heard,
>>>>>> that autonomous vehicle was a bit disappointing. Besides, I've
>>>>>> only heard about it one time, at convention a few years ago.
>>>>>> Since then, nothing has been heard of the NFB car--it's just
>>>>>> disappeared. Right now, the google car is looking a lot more
>>>>>> promising. I support the NFB to my core, but if there's another
>>>>>> product that serves better than an NFB product (like a Revolution
>>>>>> cane, for example) I won't hesitate to get it. Also, I have one
>>>>>> question about the google cars. Do they run on gas or
>>>>>> electricity?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:25:35 +0000
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, Peter!
>>>>>> Like minds huh?
>>>>>> I just posted this same link on here a few minutes ago!
>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Peter
>>>>>> Donahue [pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 5:23 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good afternoon one more time everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better yet visit http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's lots of information about our efforts to develop this
>>>>>> technology along with videos showing a blind person driving the
>>>>>> car on the track at Daytona Beach. The technology and the
>>>>>> possibilities have all ready been demonstrated. I also understand
>>>>>> that several blind individuals have driven the car on the streets
>>>>>> of Baltimore with success.We all need to unite and work with
>>>>>> whomever will partner with us be it Google or someone else to
>>>>>> insure that any self-driving vehicle that is developed is
>>>>>> controllable by a blind person and that our right to operate such
>>>>>> vehicles is protected. We don't need the very people who stand to
>>>>>> benefit from the freedom and empowerment such a vehicle could
>>>>>> give us undermining such a noble initiative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Amen, Patrick!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum, Co-Chair
>>>>>> Public Relations Committee
>>>>>> Maryland Association of Blind Students
>>>>>> Phone: (443) 547-2409
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Patrick Molloy
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 3:27 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry Ashley, but I completely and wholeheartedly disagree
>>>>>> with you.
>>>>>> When NTSB executives are saying that autonomous cars are the way
>>>>>> to go, don't you think they deserve some credence? I honestly
>>>>>> lost faith in the NFB car. Sure it was "made for blind people,"
>>>>>> but you barely ever saw the thing!
>>>>>> If you're going to make a car for the blind, don't hide it away
>>>>>> from the public and then give no explanation when it essentially
>>>>>> disappears. I'm not saying that the Google car would be perfect.
>>>>>> I'm not fooling myself with that idea. But, I think that the
>>>>>> technology is really impressive and, with some modifications, it
>>>>>> will be great for blind people. But hey!
>>>>>> If you want
>>>>>> to always wait around for a driver, or a bus, or paratransit,
>>>>>> more power to you. It just seems like this all runs counter to
>>>>>> the philosophy that many people within the NFB preach daily. As
>>>>>> for your arguments as to why blind people shouldn't drive, I
>>>>>> think if you read the articles about the potential of autonomous
>>>>>> cars, you'll find most if not all of your fears more or less
>>>>>> assuaged. Just because something SEEMS difficult is no reason for
>>>>>> us blind people to avoid it like the plague. That would be
>>>>>> ridiculous! If I decide not to get this car, it would only be
>>>>>> after I'd tried it out and found it not to my liking. Since the
>>>>>> NFB car is more or less dead, I feel that we as blind people have
>>>>>> a responsibility to get behind the Google car in one way or
>>>>>> another.
>>>>>> Isn't that what the NFB always says? That they're there for blind
>>>>>> people when we need something? Well, we need to get around and
>>>>>> we're tired of waiting like kids for our parents to pick us up
>>>>>> from soccer practice! If we're going to be independent,
>>>>>> successful individuals, then we should have the right to get
>>>>>> around just like our sighted colleagues.
>>>>>> Separate is not
>>>>>> equal in this case. You may never drive this thing, and you may
>>>>>> think it ridiculous, but I highly encourage people like yourself
>>>>>> and Carly to at least consider the point of view of those of us
>>>>>> who want to drive like our brothers and sisters, mothers and
>>>>>> fathers. You may think us self-serving, but doesn't that make
>>>>>> sighted people self-serving? I mean, they can take a bus too! The
>>>>>> issue here is choice. We shouldn't HAVE to take a bus if we don't
>>>>>> want to wait 2 hours. Now, if it's a nice day and you've got time
>>>>>> to kill, hey! Spend 5 hours going to the doctor! But we should
>>>>>> have the same freedom that all sighted people have. With that
>>>>>> freedom will come the realization that blind people can do the
>>>>>> same things as sighted people.
>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/14/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I haven't read all this thread much. But from what I read, it
>>>>>> seems like you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all believe the car would provide more transit options and you'd
>>>>>> buy one if
>>>>>>
>>>>>> given a choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know the problems in the bus system; I've seen them and ridden
>>>>>> paratransit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and felt its impact of unreliability and lateness.
>>>>>> That said, I think other methods of travel are more efficient and
>>>>>> safe.
>>>>>> Things like cabs, car pools, getting rides with friends when you
>>>>>> want to hang out, and hiring a driver would be better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not support blind people driving because we cannot see to
>>>>>> override the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> car.
>>>>>> I have to agree with the individual that said that having a car
>>>>>> is self serving. We are putting other lives at risk.
>>>>>> We face many obstacles on the rode like other cars wipping in
>>>>>> front of us when its not their turn; cars inching along not going
>>>>>> the speed limit and you got to move around them, waiting for
>>>>>> pedestrians to walk, rode rage, and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> drunk drivers.
>>>>>> Without vision, we cannot! intervene the computerized car to
>>>>>> override it when obstacles arise.
>>>>>> I cannot tell you how many times my parents slammed on the brakes
>>>>>> due to some driver wipping out in front of them, drivers who
>>>>>> unexpectedly turn without turning on their turn signal like their
>>>>>> supposed to, pedestrians who
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are still walking across the street when the orange don't walk
>>>>>> signal is on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thus making cars wait, having to swerve around bicyclists, and
>>>>>> distracted drivers on cell phones.
>>>>>> All these obstacles create hazards which a human driver with eyes
>>>>>> needs to see and make a quick judgement and use reflexes to act
>>>>>> upon unexpected hazards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, yeah, when you all can afford a new google car, go right
>>>>>> ahead and you never know who might be hurt if you even get a
>>>>>> license. I just don't want to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> be on the road with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the nfb car sounded safer and it was built for blind
>>>>>> people, but we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> abandoned that project, probably cause of money.
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Kaiti Shelton
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:08 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see it as self-serving either... in my experience with
>>>>>> buses I have to agree with Sophie here. Plus, some parts of town
>>>>>> that I need to go either aren't served by buses, or take a really
>>>>>> long time to get to which sometimes involves going in the
>>>>>> opposite way of the destination for a while and then circling
>>>>>> back because of Dayton's bus system. (It's organized by buses
>>>>>> going north-south and east-west, but sometimes when you're at a
>>>>>> stop the time of the bus won't tell you if the bus is going north
>>>>>> or south, or east or west so you have to roll with it. I'd much
>>>>>> rather just get into a car and drive than boomerang around the
>>>>>> city just to get to one place, and then do it again returning to
>>>>>> school. And because of this, and the fact that it the bus system
>>>>>> isn't exactly equivalent to a car, I don't consider it
>>>>>> self-serving either. I have no problem in supporting it and
>>>>>> other programs of public transit for people who can't drive a
>>>>>> car, which more often are people who are low income, have a
>>>>>> suspended license, or who are inner-city, or elderly than blind,
>>>>>> but if I and other blind people can afford a car and want one I
>>>>>> don't see anything self-serving in that, it's just doing what is
>>>>>> most efficient. I actually think not taking advantage of this
>>>>>> opportunity on the basis that the less than efficient public
>>>>>> transit systems work fine and that other people can use the money
>>>>>> or whatever that would go into buying this car would be like
>>>>>> saying you'd pass up going to college even though you could
>>>>>> because other people can be served by your tuition money, and the
>>>>>> high school diploma would serve you just fine. It's more
>>>>>> efficient, so why not do it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sophie, I too see it more as an investment in independence. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/14/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Im buying this damn car the first chance I get. I'd rather be
>>>>>> self serving and frivolous and drive to some place within 20
>>>>>> minutes instead of sitting on the bus for three hours, or more,
>>>>>> depending on if the driver didn't call my stop and I'd be riding
>>>>>> extra long.
>>>>>> Here
>>>>>> in chicagothat isn't a problem but I used to live in Tallahassee
>>>>>> FL where there was no automated system to tell you where you
>>>>>> were.
>>>>>> So
>>>>>> yes, I'd much rather be self serving and save up. Besides, as I
>>>>>> have said before in a previous message, this technology is
>>>>>> driving along the streets of Nevada. I'm so excited that I'm even
>>>>>> grinning and daydreaming about driving along side of a bus, and
>>>>>> happy that I'm frivolous enough to pay for a self serving device
>>>>>> that will allowfor me to get to the office quicker, or to an
>>>>>> interview on time, thus allowing me to have greater chances to
>>>>>> pay my taxes so you other non self serving blind people can take
>>>>>> the bus. I think it's a neat little circle of irony, don't you
>>>>>> think? LOL!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> t104
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kaiti
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> hlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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