[nabs-l] Scanning And Reading Appliance (SARA) vs. Kurzweil

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Sat Apr 27 03:47:37 UTC 2013 

Joe,

We don't disagree completely.  Many of the extra features added are seldom used, and one is paying a lot for simply getting a different interface.  Having 
gone through many Omnipage upgrades, I have noticed more changes to interface than I have noticed the increased claims of accuracy, though.  
Therefore, I am not convinced that one gets ten times better results with FineReader.  I do accept that you may get similar to slightly better results with 
Finereader at close to a tenth the cost.  If that is what you mean, I can agree with that.  At least with Kurzweil, though, you actually get two OCR engines, 
the FineReader engine and the OmniPage engine, and switching engines can make a difference.  You are right that the engine is not the full software, but 
it represents the heart of the OCR process.  You are also right that the engines included in Kurzweil and probably Open Book are usually a version or 
sometimes two behind.  These are all things worth considering.  Probably where we may disagree, and I'm not absolutely sure that we do, is that there are 
some for whom the computer just isn't second nature.  While such people might be able to master the interfaces of FineReader or OmniPage, they will 
never feel comfortable with it.  I've worked with people in that category.  Yet, the simpler interface of Kurzweil is one with which they can feel natural and 
they can work more efficiently.  Is it worth the difference in price?  Probably not to you or to me, but if it means being more efficient for some, the difference 
might be worth it to them.  That's why I say it is an individual choice, but it is worth trying the off-the-shelf software first if one can do it.  I also think we are 
talking about a different situation when one is using OCR software in the work place where it is unlikely anyone else is using it.  I am a strong believer in 
using the same word processor and other software as my co-workers.  When I have used OCR for work, though, it was something only I have done, so it 
makes less difference which course I choose to follow.  The real question is whether the expensive alternatives give enough of an advantage to be worth 
the price.  I don't think the answer is as obviously "no" as you do, but I also don't think people should assume that the expensive alternatives are the only 
way they can go.

So where can I find FineReader for $37 or in that price range?

Best regards,

Steve

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:38:33 -0400, Joe wrote:

>Steve,

>Naturally, I disagree, maybe the first time when it comes to technology. The
>OCR engines that power Kurzweil are not the fully developed software found
>in the mainstream products. In fact, I believe the engines in the assistive
>products are behind by a version or two, which makes sense from a
>competitive standpoint. A version or more makes a significant difference
>when you're talking about the sophistication of text recognition.

>No, the mainstream products do not render text in MP3, not yet that I'm
>aware of. They do not feature classic books. They do not crank up their
>price to use a proprietary speech synthesizer that puts your screen reader
>of choice to sleep, and some of them do not feature a dictionary and
>miscellaneous tools you may never use, and tools that you could find at a
>far lower price elsewhere. If you look carefully, you can find a copy of
>ABBYY Finereader for $37. That's not very likely for the assistive
>counterparts. It's a substantial financial difference when the interface is
>just as straightforward in one product as the other. Yes, you spend a little
>time learning concepts like training the software to behave the way you
>like, but since when do we advocate blind people opt for the assistive
>products just because they were blind-friendly? That's setting people up for
>failure in the workplace...

>The idea that people ought to buy a product simply because the state agency
>can pay for it is a little appalling. This sets up the person for failure
>later when they are no longer covered by a state plan and face the reality
>of paying maintenance fees to keep the product updated. Yes, you pay to
>upgrade mainstream software as well, but you're going to pay a lot less to
>do so than the assistive technology companies get away with.

>All that said, it is an individual choice. Perhaps I'm a little bitter that
>OpenBook is what was procured for me at work, and I absolutely hate it. I
>stand by my claim the mainstream route is ten times better. I prove it every
>day. (grin)

>Also, don't forget about DocuScan. If you absolutely have to get an
>assistive OCR product, give Serotek a try. In full disclosure, I do
>freelance work for them.

>http://www.serotek.com/docuscanplus

>Joe

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 10:22 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scanning And Reading Appliance (SARA) vs. Kurzweil

>This is a tricky subject, and I think one should be careful of simple
>answers.  The off-the-shelf products are much cheaper as Joe said, but
>depending upon the product and the version, the interfaces can be
>challenging.  a knowledgeable computer user should be able to use FineReader
>or OmniPage and many of us have done that.  However, for many, the simpler
>interfaces of Kurzweil 1000 and Open Book may be worth the extra price,
>especially if one can justify having it paid for.  I think I would try to
>get a demo of FineReader before deciding for certain that it is for you,
>unless you feel you are a pretty experienced computer user.  Many state
>agencies are used to paying for Kurzweil or Open Book, and I don't see the
>down side of going that route if it is available to you.

>I think you will find that most scanners will work with Kurzweil 1000 or
>FineReader if they have drivers for the operating system you are using.  It
>is hard for me to imagine that you will find a scanner that would work with
>Kurzweil that does not work with FineReader or OmniPage.  There are older
>scanners that will not work with Windows 7, and I suspect the same might be
>true of Windows 8, and this would affect both programs.  

>Finally, in terms of character recognition, Kurzweil gives you the choice of
>either using the OmniPage or the FineReader recognition "engine" as they
>call it.  In other words, the actual recognition of text is going to be
>about the same whether you are using Kurzweil or FineReader.  Therefore, I
>think that the claim that FineReader will work ten times better is a bit of
>an exaggeration.  <smile>  However, that also means that it is fair to say
>that the high price you pay for something like Kurzweil or Open Book is not
>for better character recognition but rather for an interface that is easier
>to use.  Is that worth the extra money?  To some it is not, but to some it
>is.  The question isn't whether one can use FineReader or OmniPage, the
>question is rather whether they can use the off-the-shelf products as
>efficiently as they can use Kurzweil 1000 or Open book, and whether the
>difference in efficiency is worth it.  The answers are different for
>different people.

>Best regards,

>Steve Jacobson

>On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:04:33 -0400, Justin Young wrote:

>>Hi Joe,

>>Do you need a specific scanner to go with this product or will any one 
>>work fine?  I was told that with Kurzweil you had to use specific 
>>scanners that would only work with Kurzweil.  Thanks for the suggestion 
>>haven't heard of this product before so I'm gonna definitely look into 
>>it.

>>Justin

>>On 4/25/13, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi, go with ABBYY Finereader. It's a mainstream off-the-shelf 
>>> product, is a lot cheaper than the assistive options, and works ten 
>>> times better than Kurzweil or Openbook ever will.--Joe
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin 
>>> Young
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:02 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scanning And Reading Appliance (SARA) vs. 
>>> Kurzweil
>>>
>>> Hi Jane,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your response.  How do you like it?  Is it simple to 
>>> use?  I don't know much about the devise, but sounded interesting from
>what I read.
>>>
>>> On 4/23/13, Jane <juanitatighan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have a SARA right on the thing above my desk. It won't handle 
>>>> hand-written stuff. Very few scanning solutions can, because 
>>>> han-writing is so different for every one.
>>>>
>>>> Jane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are doing well.  I was wondering if any of you have used a 
>>>>> devise called Scanning And Reading Appliance (SARA) from Freedom 
>>>>> Scientific?  I currently have Kurzweil, but was interested in 
>>>>> hearing if anyone knew if it handled documents better than 
>>>>> Kurzweil?  For example, at least with my version of Kurzweil, you 
>>>>> can't really do anything with handwritten text.  Can SARA support 
>>>>> these types of documents?  Just curious if anyone first hand could 
>>>>> provide any information on this devise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
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