[nabs-l] the test accomodations

Mon Apr 29 04:34:35 UTC 2013

Now that is a great idea.  If you could isolate the parts of the test
that need the pronunciations and have your professor or someone else
who can speak the words propperly onto a recording that might work.
If the test has it throughout it might be problematic, but otherwise
it sounds like it would be worth a shot; I'll have to remember that
myself for when I take a foreign language, I'm thinking German
actually and I don't know if we have those readers here either.

On 4/28/13, blackbyrdfly at gmail.com <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I took Italian, and no readers who had taken Italian were available, I
> asked my professor to record the questions that would be written in Italian,
> and used JAWS for the questions in English. The recording was saved on a USB
> thumb drive that my teacher gave directly to the test proctor in the DSS
> office, and they gave it to me to listen to on their computer. This worked
> really well. I had perfect pronoun citation, the ability to rewind, fast
> forward and pause as needed, the DSS office didn't have to find a reader at
> all and there were no concerns about security or cheating. You might try
> talking to your professor about that.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:13 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Kirt,
>> Thanks. I do intend to use that idea of process of elimination.
>> If they mispronounce say  2 or 3 of five terms, I'll do what I know and
>> then
>> look at the rest carefully by having them spell words. If I get a reader
>> though with an accent or poor english skills, I might have a hard time
>> understanding how they spell; in this case, I'll ask them to spell using a
>> word; meaning spell phonetically. Sometimes B and d sound alike in which
>> case I'd have to ask which letter they mean.
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me about using the other definitions. Perhaps I'm
>> just too worried. I just want a fair chance to succeed with a decent
>> reader and I have no clue what sort of reader I'll get. Some student
>> readers are decent. Others mumble and act like they've never read aloud in
>> their lives.
>>
>> Its stressful to work with an untrained reader who may or may not know how
>> to pronounce words. but that is what I have to deal with since I cannot
>> bring my own readers in.
>>
>> I'll just do my best with what I have.
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:38 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>
>> Ashley,
>> I think you'll probably be fine.  When I've had readers mispronounce
>> things in other languages, it's usually been easy enough for me to
>> have them pronounce the other words in the matching list and, from
>> there, it hasn't been that hard to figure out what's what.  Best of
>> luck to you!
>>
>> On 4/28/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Tyler,
>>> I've worked with incompetent readers. I've tried to accommodate their
>>> poor
>>> reading level. Some of them have mumbled to the page or speak fast so I
>>> cannot differientiate between choice A and B. I ask them to slow down and
>>> I
>>>
>>> lean in toward them to hear better.
>>> Actually, its my experience that good readers do not look down at the
>>> page
>>> but rather they sit up straight and their voice projects out and they
>>> sort
>>> of look toward me. Its hard to describe. But their face is not in the
>>> page,
>>>
>>> but yeah of course they are looking at it to read.
>>> I think your suggestion of changing seats to sit
>>> across from them is a good one.
>>>
>>> Finally, I think you misunderstand my comments. I never said things will
>>> be
>>>
>>> perfect and yes I have in fact made my own accomodations. A few examples.
>>> For instance, I learn better in braille or large print if its something
>>> with
>>>
>>> symbols.
>>> So, I use my perkins to braille out key items to study or use my braille
>>> note or my very old embosser on occasion.
>>> Sometimes I don't know how to spell proper places and other nouns so i
>>> go to that word with jaws and read it character by character.
>>> I've often not had my accomodations met that state I get handouts in
>>> electronic format. So I take them in paper form and scan them.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I have articles to read that are not electronic; no online
>>> version
>>>
>>> is available. if it is, and the professor is helpful, they send me the
>>> links.
>>> So in those instances, I have used readers I hired.
>>>
>>> So, of course I do more work and work around studying and living in a
>>> sighted world.
>>> But when a school is  a huge community college and should make the
>>> accomodations to test you fairly, I do have a problem. They could also
>>> have
>>>
>>> a braille display or heaven forbid they actually do in-house brailling.
>>> What
>>>
>>> a concept!
>>> Having a braille display and reading it on the pc would solve this
>>> problem
>>> since I'd be reading the words like everyone else.
>>> Note that I've suggested getting a braille display; even a small one, a
>>> long
>>>
>>> time ago.
>>>
>>> They also lost their Assistive tech guy who could have done the
>>> brailling.
>>> They are supposedly looking for a AT assistant.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the best I can do is advocate to the dss office and speak to the
>>> professor and hopefully work something out.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Littlefield, Tyler
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 3:56 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>
>>> Ashley:
>>> I'm not sure what you mean by compitant. I've had people read from all
>>> ranges. There are people that read slower, but your two concerns ("They
>>> talk to the paper" and "'tThey don't know arabic words") are pretty far
>>> out there.
>>>
>>> First, they're going to be looking at the paper that they're reading.
>>> its physically impossible, unless they were to turn to face you for them
>>> to be looking straight at you. I'm not sure if this is a problem, but
>>> try sitting across from them at a table if you must be facing them.
>>> Second, if they mumble or have issues this is problematic and I suggest
>>> finding someone else. If you are unable to find a reader from department
>>> x, know that said reader probably won't know all the words, and it will
>>> be up to you guys to work things out to try to figure out what they
>>> mean. If they're reading from the book, flip to the back where there's
>>> generally a glossary.
>>>
>>> What it comes down to is you are blind, and as a result you have to make
>>> your own accomidations. You can scream and hollar about ADA as much as
>>> you want, but it doesn't matter. When they outright violate your rights,
>>> that's when you need to scream about ADA. When your reader isn't
>>> perfect, it needs to be accepted as one of the points to doing business,
>>> and you as the student needs to work it out. I'm not saying you need to
>>> lay down and take everything--I fully agree that you should complain
>>> about the math issue you mentioned. What I am saying though is you'll
>>> get a lot farther if you are willing to be flexable and acknowledge and
>>> accept that this won't be a perfect shot. It's something you have to
>>> deal with unless you want to find alternative means to getting the books
>>> that you need.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just want to throw one more thing out there at you. Being in college,
>>> as lame as it may sound really does get you ready for later work life.
>>> I've seen numerous complaints about professor x y and z for the last few
>>> semesters; if you're in a job, you already have to overcome the "wow
>>> she's blind" factor most of the time. Refusing to be flexable or work
>>> with people won't do you any good. You might call up the ADA, but when
>>> it really comes down to it, people can find a good reason to drop you
>>> eventually if they want to, and they don't even have to tell you it's
>>> because you're blind and unflexable. People don't have to hire you if
>>> they don't want to, and they don't have to tell you it's because you're
>>> blind; they can tell you someone else got the job and hand it to the
>>> loser who got half your GPA if they really want to. Again, it doesn't
>>> mean you should take everything, but I feel like you could problem solve
>>> some of these issues a lot more if you were willing to accept people's
>>> ideas and get outside the box, and starting now can only help you in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> On 4/27/2013 10:18 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>>> Arielle,
>>>> I was told I have to use their readers by the dss office. I will check
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> student handbook and the disability website to check on policies. But I
>>>> believe that I cannot use my own reader. Believe me, I'd love to have
>>>> another staff member or another student assist me who can read.
>>>>
>>>> My accomodations are between me and the professor to some extent. but
>>>> when
>>>>
>>>> I take a test in the testing center, it is my understand I have to
>>>> follow
>>>>
>>>> their rules. One rule might be I have to use their readers from the dss
>>>> office. But I will see if such a policy is written down. I'll ask my
>>>> counselor who tells me this to get me that policy. Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:28 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>
>>>> Again, who is "they"? Brining your own reader is a valid testing
>>>> accommodation that blind students have used. I haven't because I
>>>> prefer to use JAWS, but several of my blind friends have done this.
>>>> A disabilities office can choose what accommodations to provide
>>>> students, but they cannot tell you which available accommodations you
>>>> can use and which you can't. That decision is between you and the
>>>> professor to make.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 4/27/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>> oOh, um, this is a community college. I'm finished my BA degree but
>>>>> taking
>>>>> classes to further my studies and get a writing certificate. The class
>>>>> I
>>>>> need a competent reader for is religion.
>>>>> No a TA won't work. Also, Its community college.
>>>>> you make it sound easy. Gee, I do wish I could get my own readers.
>>>>> Gosh.
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> can think of like 20 people who would be competent readers and have a
>>>>> clue
>>>>> how to read such a test. But no, they don't allow me to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do indeed have my own readers for studying and reading texts and
>>>>> looking
>>>>> up material and research, but
>>>>> no I cannot bring a reader to the exam. Personally, I think this is a
>>>>> legal
>>>>>
>>>>> matter and they need to change the policy so you can have the option to
>>>>> bring your own competent reader as an accomodation under the ADA. Its
>>>>> not
>>>>> fair, not equal access, and can cause one to get a lower
>>>>> grade using bad readers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Arielle Silverman
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:45 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the test accomodations
>>>>>
>>>>> You can also ask the professor if the teaching assistant can
>>>>> read/scribe your exam, if there is one for the class. Most teaching
>>>>> assistants are graduate students or advanced undergraduates in the
>>>>> department and should know the material well, and since they're
>>>>> trusted employees of the professor, they are trusted not to help you
>>>>> cheat. Plus, many TA's have nothing else to do during an exam and
>>>>> would otherwise just be sitting around. If the class has no teaching
>>>>> assistant, as in a community college, maybe the professor could read
>>>>> it for you and scribe your answers during office hours the day before
>>>>> the test or some such?
>>>>> I know that blind students have hired their own readers for testing,
>>>>> which allows them to pick people who are competent. Some disability
>>>>> services offices frown on this practice because they prefer to hire
>>>>> and manage readers themselves, but it's an option that's at least
>>>>> worth discussing with your professor, who might not care much.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/27/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I haven't used readers since I am a partial and use cctv but when I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> disabled students pay for a chemistry lab aid I insisted the person
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> chem major and an A student.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe you could find your readers through the department. And then
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> interview them by having them read to you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm in the middle of the nightmare that is transferring between
>>>>>>> colleges,
>>>>>>> but the college I am leaving almost always provided me with competent
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> capable readers. Sure, they might pronounce a few words incorrectly
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> they knew how to read out loud.  I hope I don't run into the same
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> you are dealing with right now and my next college.
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 27, 2013, at 11:21 AM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > As finals approach, I wanted to know what test accomodations you
>>>>>>> get.
>>>>>>> > Do
>>>>>>> you feel they are adaquate and meet your needs?
>>>>>>> > If you need a reader and person to scribe your answers on a
>>>>>>> scantron,
>>>>>>> how are they? Are they competent readers?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I’m going through a discriminatory situation now. Most my readers
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> incompetent but I got around that by asking them to speak slower and
>>>>>>> repeat
>>>>>>> things; I mean they could not speak all that clearly and read fast
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> spoke to the paper not articulately to me. Many exams I took with
>>>>>>> jaws
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> avoid this; I feel this way is slower for me and a reader can
>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>> mark
>>>>>>> my answers on a scantron as well as go back to questions I missed. If
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> need a reader scribe I should be given a competent reader.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I’ll tell more about this specific test issue in another message.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Look forward to seeing your responses.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Ashley
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>>
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>> Sent from my Toaster (tm).
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Kaiti