From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Dec  1 03:42:28 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 19:42:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Job Questions...
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_ave5yuedGbetxi+UdKcTc+xDc5ePgcH+kjqqusFRzHpu-A@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwxHR3PA38MA1ucy0YRRx=2ZAw_Zcda1C1zZNC29cd5uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave5yuedGbetxi+UdKcTc+xDc5ePgcH+kjqqusFRzHpu-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.91.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>


Hi, Keri,

         Seems to me, you may be parroting back stuff you've heard 
ol' Sighty dribble about going to college or not doing to college, I 
have long believed the term "unskilled" is a tragic misnomer. Look at 
it, could any of us without skill training, make our own coffee, 
clean our own bathrooms, wait our own tables without first learning a skill?
In fact, taking it a step further, these sorts of jobs are just that, 
skill-based. And., a truth remains that, jobs such as researcher, 
customer service agent are indeed more readily accessible. Don't give 
up for, not everybody needs to even be in college, or tackle a 
so-called white-collar profession.
for today, Car
408-209-3239

  And, while I agree that "simple" jobs like pretzel selling a  At 
06:10 PM 11/21/2013, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>In my opinion, not knowing your financial state, going to school would be a
>better first place to turn your life around. Unskilled jobs are the most
>visual and although many can probably be done they will be a lot harder to
>make accessible than skilled/professional job. School can mean just a
>training program, certificate, degree...You would probably be able to get
>financial aid and or rehab to cover it.
>
>I personally feel that there is more discrimination in entry level jobs vs
>skilled positions.
>
>just my 2 cents
>
>good luck
>
>
>On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Everyone:
> >
> > I am considering applying for some jobs and had a few questions.
> > Antians Pretzels (a pretzel place in the mall) is looking for "crew
> > members." I have been told this means someone to make the pretzels and
> > serve them to the customers, and someone to likely run the register
> > and take the pretzel orders.
> > There is a restaurant called Panara Bread (a popular sandwich chain)
> > opening soon in my area and they are hiring for all positions.
> > I am considering applying at these places.
> > Is there any way a blind person can run a cash register?
> > Is there actually anything I could do at these places as a blind
> > person or will they immediately look at my blindness and turn me away?
> > I won't go into full details on a listserve, but I am trying to turn
> > my life around and one of the ways I thought I could do this was to
> > find a simple job that would give me confidence, something to do, and
> > to show me that I can in fact work.
> > I'll admit, this is my first time applying for a job. If I apply, and
> > they ask me to come in for an interview, and they say something like
> > "So, what can you do?" if I'm not sure myself what I can do how do I
> > respond?
> > In the past I've just made the excuse that because of my blindness
> > there is nothing I could do when looking for jobs and just given up
> > but if I want to turn things around I have to do something and
> > applying for jobs is one of the things I can think of to do.
> > Thanks,
> > Kerri
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From i.c.bray at win.net  Sun Dec  1 05:58:09 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 00:58:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...
References: <CAM6GWxwqes-8y-6jkKycJ8zOxVkz9Zts01hKAN0BJLfJEHr1sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E15E28082E7943CC97F38C85DF04C628@JAWS>

Kerri,

Just curious but "where" is "home"?
I'm only asking, because there might be others in your area who have 
excellent hearing, that you can perhaps walk with...
Just a thought...

Ian





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Some Encouragement/Some Travel Questions...


: Hi Everyone:
:
: I hope it's okay for me to post this. I have debated for a long time
: whether to post about this but I feel like everyone else is allowed to
: post on topics such as family issues and other things so I figured I'd
: post my frustrations.
: I really just want some encouragement, and to know whether I am the
: only one going through this.
: I am totally blind, and in addition to my blindness I have severe
: hearing loss. I can hear sounds and can communicate with people and
: such, but I can't tell which direction sounds are coming from.
: Basically, my hearing really affects my travel.
: Last year, I graduated from the Louisiana Center for The Blind. I
: really enjoyed it, and I really enjoyed cane travel class. I enjoy
: using my cane and traveling.
: Anyway, because of my hearing loss, and the fact I am not that great
: at mental mapping, I did a lot of routes in training. My instructor
: told me when I returned home if someone (anyone) showed me where to go
: around my area I'd be okay.
: To make a long story short, I returned home and things didn't happen
: as they were supposed to.
: I guess I just feel frustrated because I don't feel like I get to use
: my cane that much. Sure, I can go to the mall, or a game or somewhere
: indoors and to get directions from people but where I am not getting
: much practice is outdoors like walking from city block to block and
: crossing streets.
: Another thing that frustrates me is when I do finally get someone to
: show me something I love it because I get to really use my cane and
: then I have to wait a week or more to be able to go out there again.
: For example, there is a Dollar General store located across the street
: from me. The problem is first though that this particular street is
: extremely busy. I am unable to cross busy streets or lighted
: intersections without assistance because of my hearing loss. I
: arranged for someone to help me cross the street. However, I forgot
: one thing. This dollar general has a huge parking lot that is open and
: has no landmarks and I can't hear the echos from the building.
: I had a friend on Saturday walk with me to the dollar General just to
: try to map it out and see how big the parking lot was. With this
: friend, I was able to use my braille compass, and work on mental
: mapping and such just like I was taught in training. Well, my friend
: can't help me again for another week or so.
: I just wish I got to work on the things such as using my braille
: compass, and mental mapping, and really using my cane like I was in
: training more often. It really brings me down when I get to do this
: type of thing for a day, and then I can't do it for another week or
: more.
: I guess I just wondered am I the only one in this situation?
: I know on this list nobody else likely has hearing loss but is there
: anyone else who doesn't get to go out and travel much?
: Have any of you been to training and then afterwords not really been
: able to do as much afterwords?
: Is anybody else on this list also a route traveler or who has to stick
: primarily to someone showing them where something is first?
: Does anyone on here have to use a local mobility instructor to show
: them where things are? If so, what was your experience?
: As I said, I hope it's okay for me to post this. I usually try not to
: post rants, or negative threads, but I just feel
: frustrated/discouraged sometimes because I feel like I am the only
: one. It seems like everyone else who graduates from NFB centers are
: able to get right out there and travel completely independently
: without having to depend on anyone to show them anything. Everyone
: around here is sighted, and so drives, and I guess sometimes I just
: feel like I am the only one who struggles with travel. I feel like
: with sighted people they don't have to be shown anything, or are
: limited in where they can drive. It seems like everyone else who
: graduates from NFB centers are able to just use their hearing to
: travel everywhere. I guess sometimes I just feel
: frustrated/discouraged because I feel like I am the only one and so
: wondered if others were also in a similar situation where you struggle
: with travel or don't get to get out there and use your cane that much.
: Thanks, and this is the only negative post from me I promise!,
: Kerri
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Dec  1 09:14:24 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 01:14:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
In-Reply-To: <DEDEC73B-4001-423D-BF17-EFF641ED1684@aol.com>
References: <DEDEC73B-4001-423D-BF17-EFF641ED1684@aol.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.92.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>



Morning, Bridget,

Apparently I am your long lost   sister in brain damage! A little bit 
about me,, While I have retained knowledge of braille in long term 
memory which,remarkably, does not seem to bare indelible signs of 
brain damage as  a now deep-as-a bird bath short term recall, I seem 
to be effected bey a crippling case of tactile appraxia, which found 
me symptomatically  of brain damage. although a recollection of the 
braille code remains in tact, I cannot discern the lay-out of the 
dots, which makes reading braille, for me a pipe dream.

Since becoming brain damaged 10 years ago, I have become an 
audio-based learner which called for my converting from one whom 
retaines new knowledges via reading, to someone to whom new 
information must flow into that layer of perception. Can you describe 
your own experience? How old is your brain damage?
for today, Car

408-209-3239
>Hi everyone,
>I have reached a point where I need all the help I can get. First it 
>helps to have some background. My primary disability is blindness 
>due to a TBI. I have another component to my condition which is spastic CP.
>So I am now a junior, an education major, and think I have it all. 
>At least that's how the semester starts.
>I need to know what do I do if due to my secondary disabilities that 
>are not blindness professors either refuse to accommodate me all 
>together or focus on one disability and not the other?
>My next question is in the area of equal access. I am all for 
>advocating for yourself in this area and using whatever you have to 
>get the job done.
>One of my professors uses google sites and although I made her along 
>with DS aware of the accessibility problem I am still required to 
>use the site. I sent everyone the letter Sean sent the list with my 
>explanation but they don't care.
>Now we move on to art. I'm taking a sculpture class nice and 
>tactile. The professor refuses to grade me because I'm blind and 
>have CP. I can't see and can't move my hands the way other people 
>do. She said I receive a pass fail for the class and am required to 
>do everything but not for an actual letter grade. She told me at the 
>start I can see powerpoints. Ok no if I read Braille, have a guide 
>dog, and get migraines when I use my eyes I don't think I can see. 
>DS didn't even back me up I had to bring my eye report to the head 
>of the art department to prove my disability. Let's add in the part 
>there is already documentation about my disability at DS.
>Finally we get to math. Let me say I knew math was going to be a 
>challenge. My book is I not accessible on my math lab with jaws 15. 
>The college wanted me to downgrade my screen reader and my IE 
>version so my math lab might work. I tested it with an older version 
>of jaws and windows seven it is not compatible as far spas I know. 
>Bigger point I should not be downgrading my technology for a book.
>Then to have them say what is the big deal?
>We have an embosser on campus. We are lucky. I have Braille as an 
>accommodation but, we need someone to Braille my tests because I 
>can't that's not ok and DS is not trained. DS has brailled before 
>and did well they just won't do it I guess a confidence thing. So I 
>have to take my tests with jaws. Jaws and math are not a good combo.
>I just want to know what do people think of all of this?
>I have met with as many resources on campus to reach a common ground 
>and I get nowhere.
>I have a year and a half left. I don't want it to be like this.
>I feel like I take five steps forward and ten steps back.
>Thanks
>Bridget
>
>
>Sent from my iPad
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Dec  1 09:26:55 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 01:26:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Job Questions...
In-Reply-To: <000a01cee72f$e3b7dd40$ab2797c0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwxHR3PA38MA1ucy0YRRx=2ZAw_Zcda1C1zZNC29cd5uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave5yuedGbetxi+UdKcTc+xDc5ePgcH+kjqqusFRzHpu-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cee72f$e3b7dd40$ab2797c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.93.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Good morning, Joe,

Which jobs did you have while you were working you way through school?
for today, Car
408-209-3239PM 11/21/2013, Joe wrote:
>I don't know that going to school is always the best method of turning one's
>life around, not with tuition being what it is these days. If there's a good
>plan in place to maximize what you get out of a degree or certificate
>program or whatever, by all means go back, but otherwise I think the
>original poster should explore this possibility of working at one of these
>two food establishments. I'd call ahead, ask for a time to come out and meet
>the manager and see what could be worked out. We won't break the
>discrimination barrier of entry level jobs if we naturally shy away from
>them. I'm all for placing more blind people in skilled roles. Yet, not
>everyone will want that option, and perhaps another way to think about it is
>that one could work at an entry level job to partially help pay for tuition.
>I worked full-time through grad school, not the most recommended idea, but
>it helped teach me a lot about time management and prioritizing.
>
>Joe
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
>Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 9:11 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Job Questions...
>
>In my opinion, not knowing your financial state, going to school would be a
>better first place to turn your life around. Unskilled jobs are the most
>visual and although many can probably be done they will be a lot harder to
>make accessible than skilled/professional job. School can mean just a
>training program, certificate, degree...You would probably be able to get
>financial aid and or rehab to cover it.
>
>I personally feel that there is more discrimination in entry level jobs vs
>skilled positions.
>
>just my 2 cents
>
>good luck
>
>
>On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Everyone:
> >
> > I am considering applying for some jobs and had a few questions.
> > Antians Pretzels (a pretzel place in the mall) is looking for "crew
> > members." I have been told this means someone to make the pretzels and
> > serve them to the customers, and someone to likely run the register
> > and take the pretzel orders.
> > There is a restaurant called Panara Bread (a popular sandwich chain)
> > opening soon in my area and they are hiring for all positions.
> > I am considering applying at these places.
> > Is there any way a blind person can run a cash register?
> > Is there actually anything I could do at these places as a blind
> > person or will they immediately look at my blindness and turn me away?
> > I won't go into full details on a listserve, but I am trying to turn
> > my life around and one of the ways I thought I could do this was to
> > find a simple job that would give me confidence, something to do, and
> > to show me that I can in fact work.
> > I'll admit, this is my first time applying for a job. If I apply, and
> > they ask me to come in for an interview, and they say something like
> > "So, what can you do?" if I'm not sure myself what I can do how do I
> > respond?
> > In the past I've just made the excuse that because of my blindness
> > there is nothing I could do when looking for jobs and just given up
> > but if I want to turn things around I have to do something and
> > applying for jobs is one of the things I can think of to do.
> > Thanks,
> > Kerri
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
> >
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From sgermano at asu.edu  Sun Dec  1 18:10:00 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 11:10:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Job Questions...
In-Reply-To: <20131201034303.6E672360C3B3@bcnetw1.asu.edu>
References: <CAM6GWxwxHR3PA38MA1ucy0YRRx=2ZAw_Zcda1C1zZNC29cd5uw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_ave5yuedGbetxi+UdKcTc+xDc5ePgcH+kjqqusFRzHpu-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20131201034303.6E672360C3B3@bcnetw1.asu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdfsHtcbFuDv9XdvPqdFfT+O4_qw_zEbifcDjaZJu3v5g@mail.gmail.com>

Going to college vs not going to college, skilled unskilled is not a
"sighty" thing.


The facts are people without college degrees have a much higher
unemployment rate. Going to college gives you opportunities to do
internships and be able to prove you can do the job when you go apply after
completing degree. And I would much rather live on a salary of 100,000 per
year then 15,000-25,000 per year.


On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>wrote:

>
> Hi, Keri,
>
>         Seems to me, you may be parroting back stuff you've heard ol'
> Sighty dribble about going to college or not doing to college, I have long
> believed the term "unskilled" is a tragic misnomer. Look at it, could any
> of us without skill training, make our own coffee, clean our own bathrooms,
> wait our own tables without first learning a skill?
> In fact, taking it a step further, these sorts of jobs are just that,
> skill-based. And., a truth remains that, jobs such as researcher, customer
> service agent are indeed more readily accessible. Don't give up for, not
> everybody needs to even be in college, or tackle a so-called white-collar
> profession.
> for today, Car
> 408-209-3239
>
>  And, while I agree that "simple" jobs like pretzel selling a  At 06:10 PM
> 11/21/2013, Suzanne Germano wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, not knowing your financial state, going to school would be
>> a
>> better first place to turn your life around. Unskilled jobs are the most
>> visual and although many can probably be done they will be a lot harder to
>> make accessible than skilled/professional job. School can mean just a
>> training program, certificate, degree...You would probably be able to get
>> financial aid and or rehab to cover it.
>>
>> I personally feel that there is more discrimination in entry level jobs vs
>> skilled positions.
>>
>> just my 2 cents
>>
>> good luck
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Everyone:
>> >
>> > I am considering applying for some jobs and had a few questions.
>> > Antians Pretzels (a pretzel place in the mall) is looking for "crew
>> > members." I have been told this means someone to make the pretzels and
>> > serve them to the customers, and someone to likely run the register
>> > and take the pretzel orders.
>> > There is a restaurant called Panara Bread (a popular sandwich chain)
>> > opening soon in my area and they are hiring for all positions.
>> > I am considering applying at these places.
>> > Is there any way a blind person can run a cash register?
>> > Is there actually anything I could do at these places as a blind
>> > person or will they immediately look at my blindness and turn me away?
>> > I won't go into full details on a listserve, but I am trying to turn
>> > my life around and one of the ways I thought I could do this was to
>> > find a simple job that would give me confidence, something to do, and
>> > to show me that I can in fact work.
>> > I'll admit, this is my first time applying for a job. If I apply, and
>> > they ask me to come in for an interview, and they say something like
>> > "So, what can you do?" if I'm not sure myself what I can do how do I
>> > respond?
>> > In the past I've just made the excuse that because of my blindness
>> > there is nothing I could do when looking for jobs and just given up
>> > but if I want to turn things around I have to do something and
>> > applying for jobs is one of the things I can think of to do.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Kerri
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Dec  1 18:44:17 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 12:44:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbv-announce] Retirement of Dr. Maurer
Message-ID: <auto-000134200543@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>From: "Fredric Schroeder" <fschroeder at sks.com>
>To: "NFBV Announce" <nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org>
>Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 11:12:29 -0500
>Subject: [Nfbv-announce] Retirement of Dr. Maurer
>
>Friends:
>
>
>
>Over the weekend, I participated in a meeting of the board of directors of
>the National Federation of the Blind. The meeting was held at our national
>headquarters in Baltimore.
>
>
>
>As you know, Dr. Marc Maurer has been our national president since 1986. He
>has served as president longer than any of our previous presidents and has
>guided us through a period of unprecedented growth and change. It was under
>Dr. Maurer's leadership that we established the Jernigan Institute and all
>of the programs that have been so successful in demonstrating the truth of
>our assertion that given proper opportunity and training, blind people can
>live and work as others.
>
>
>
>In particular we have developed many programs designed to provide blind
>children and youth with the skills and confidence they need to compete fully
>in their education and to develop their life ambitions. We have conducted
>the Youth Slam, Science Academy, and more recently the BELL programs.
>
>
>
>In the area of technology under Dr. Maurer's leadership we developed the
>KNFB Reader Mobile allowing blind people to have immediate access to print
>with nothing more than a cell phone and special software. And then there was
>the Blind Driver Challenge. There is no question that lack of access to
>reliable transportation remains a major barrier for blind people. Yet, the
>Blind Driver Challenge showed that we could develop the technology to enable
>a blind person to drive a car, not simply sit passively in a car that drives
>itself.
>
>
>
>These are the expressions of Dr. Maurer's leadership. Yet at the heart of
>his leadership is his spirit and his belief in every blind person. He has
>inspired and encouraged us, faced the most difficult challenges with
>resolution and strength, and he has kept us together, and never let us
>waiver in our belief in our own right to live normal, productive lives.
>
>
>
>On Saturday afternoon Dr. Maurer told the board that it is his intention to
>not seek reelection to the presidency next summer at our national
>convention. He feels the time is right to transition to the next president,
>the next individual who can lead us for a quarter century or more. Dr.
>Maurer is in good health and believes that it is important that he step down
>from the presidency while he is able to assist with the transition. Dr.
>Maurer told the board that he, Dr. Maurer, plans to support Mr. Mark
>Riccobono as the next president of the National Federation of the Blind.
>
>
>
>Mr. Riccobono presently serves as the Executive Director of the Jernigan
>Institute. He is an accomplished individual with the strength and wisdom to
>assume the serious responsibility of leading our movement. He has brought to
>his work the imagination and competency we demand from our president.
>
>
>
>We are truly fortunate that within the Federation we have individuals who
>are able and willing to give all they have to furthering our move toward
>true equality. The demands of the NFB presidency are unimaginable. We
>require our leader to give all of his time, all of his imagination, and all
>of his personal reserve of judgment to leading our organization. This is
>what Dr. Maurer has done for the past 27 and a half years, and it is what
>Mark Riccobono will do for the time of his presidency.
>
>
>
>The transition brings to an end one chapter in our history and what a
>glorious chapter it has been. We cannot face the loss of Dr. Maurer's
>leadership without a sense of sadness; but the transition to a new president
>is not just the absence of what we had before. The transition heralds a new
>chapter in our history and with it, new opportunities-the chance to take all
>that has come before and build something bigger and more powerful than we
>have ever known.
>
>
>
>Please join me in thanking Dr. Maurer for his leadership, his friendship and
>his faithful devotion to our cause; and please join me in wishing Mark
>Riccobono the very best as he seeks to take the foundation that is all that
>has come before and build upon it the next great chapter in our history.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Nfbv-announce mailing list
>Nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbv-announce_nfbnet.org



From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Dec  1 23:48:35 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:48:35 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
In-Reply-To: <D82D8BB3-810A-43A3-B313-8D80B4DCA27D@aol.com>
References: <DEDEC73B-4001-423D-BF17-EFF641ED1684@aol.com>
	<37D7FA92-21AA-4F01-957D-6601A88FE2A9@yahoo.com>
	<abbedf2b3c0944f6b1c8f6c07e6cf7a4@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<528F6FCB.9090704@tysdomain.com>
	<000d01cee793$73534990$59f9dcb0$@gmail.com>
	<D82D8BB3-810A-43A3-B313-8D80B4DCA27D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.94.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

At last! Some sanity.At 02:29 PM 11/30/2013, Bridget Walker wrote:
>Hi Carly, Tyler, and all,
>
>I agree with Carly and Tyler. I am not about to go after anyone. I 
>am doing all I can to keep things small. I am having several 
>meetings with professors and administrators to get things back on 
>track. I would never take this so far as to call for reinforcements 
>unless I was really getting no where. It is not easy and sometimes I 
>feel like I am talking to a wall but, I am making progress.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Nov 30, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi, Tyler,
> >
> >        Can't this student try working it out with instructors 
> involved? Personally, I aggree. It's like atttacking something with 
> an A-bomb, those lawsuits.
> > Mellow out, guys!/2013, justin williams wrote:
> >> Where should she take it?
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Littlefield,
> >> Tyler
> >> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 9:53 AM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
> >>
> >> Why is it that instead of working on alternative options, everyone jumps
> >> straight for a lawsuit? Maybe she has went through a ton of 
> options, but why
> >> not take it higher rather than say "o gawd nfb time lets sue lets sue lets
> >> sue o yeah lawsuit!"
> >> On 11/22/2013 4:49 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> >> > Bridget!
> >> > Good grief!
> >> > You've already gone the nice route, so now it's time to contact Chris
> >> Danielson, and get the NFB involved!
> >> > Can anyone say lawsuit?
> >> > I wouldn't reckomend suing unless you've exhausted all of your options,
> >> but it looks like you have!
> >> > Good grief!
> >> > Blessings, Joshua
> >> > ________________________________________
> >> > From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bobbi Pompey
> >> > [pompey2010 at yahoo.com]
> >> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 1:54 AM
> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need some help college issues
> >> >
> >> > This is ridiculous. Based on the info provided, you have spoken with DS
> >> and professors. And both haven given you I ignorant, 
> insensitive, rude, and
> >> most importantly illegal feedback. In my opinion this is the 
> proper time to
> >> work your way up the chain of command. Talk to the head of
> >> departments/colleges that the class falls under. Talk to the department
> >> chair over DS. And need be, talk to the Chanselor. Document 
> everything that
> >> had occurred and remind them of their legal obligations. I'm not 
> saying sue
> >> or threaten to sue them. But in my experiences, Judy saying the word
> >> "illegal" scares them because they don't want a lawsuit. Plus it lets them
> >> know that you know your rights.
> >> >
> >> > I've had similar situations and this is what I did. I hope this helps!
> >> >
> >> > Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> >> > (336) 988-6375
> >> > pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> >> > http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> >> >
> >> >> On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:26 AM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi everyone,
> >> >> I have reached a point where I need all the help I can get. First it
> >> helps to have some background. My primary disability is blindness due to a
> >> TBI. I have another component to my condition which is spastic CP.
> >> >> So I am now a junior, an education major, and think I have it all. At
> >> least that's how the semester starts.
> >> >> I need to know what do I do if due to my secondary 
> disabilities that are
> >> not blindness professors either refuse to accommodate me all together or
> >> focus on one disability and not the other?
> >> >> My next question is in the area of equal access. I am all for 
> advocating
> >> for yourself in this area and using whatever you have to get the job done.
> >> >> One of my professors uses google sites and although I made 
> her along with
> >> DS aware of the accessibility problem I am still required to use 
> the site. I
> >> sent everyone the letter Sean sent the list with my explanation but they
> >> don't care.
> >> >> Now we move on to art. I'm taking a sculpture class nice and 
> tactile. The
> >> professor refuses to grade me because I'm blind and have CP. I 
> can't see and
> >> can't move my hands the way other people do. She said I receive 
> a pass fail
> >> for the class and am required to do everything but not for an 
> actual letter
> >> grade. She told me at the start I can see powerpoints. Ok no if I read
> >> Braille, have a guide dog, and get migraines when I use my eyes I don't
> >> think I can see. DS didn't even back me up I had to bring my eye report to
> >> the head of the art department to prove my disability. Let's add 
> in the part
> >> there is already documentation about my disability at DS.
> >> >> Finally we get to math. Let me say I knew math was going to be a
> >> challenge. My book is I not accessible on my math lab with jaws 15. The
> >> college wanted me to downgrade my screen reader and my IE 
> version so my math
> >> lab might work. I tested it with an older version of jaws and 
> windows seven
> >> it is not compatible as far spas I know. Bigger point I should not be
> >> downgrading my technology for a book.
> >> >> Then to have them say what is the big deal?
> >> >> We have an embosser on campus. We are lucky. I have Braille as an
> >> accommodation but, we need someone to Braille my tests because I can't
> >> that's not ok and DS is not trained. DS has brailled before and did well
> >> they just won't do it I guess a confidence thing. So I have to 
> take my tests
> >> with jaws. Jaws and math are not a good combo.
> >> >> I just want to know what do people think of all of this?
> >> >> I have met with as many resources on campus to reach a common 
> ground and
> >> I get nowhere.
> >> >> I have a year and a half left. I don't want it to be like this.
> >> >> I feel like I take five steps forward and ten steps back.
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> Bridget
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yaho
> >> >> o.com
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccu
> >> > a.edu
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.
> >> > com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Take care,
> >> Ty
> >> http://tds-solutions.net
> >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a 
> fool; he that
> >> dares not reason is a slave.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> >> .com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Mon Dec  2 04:04:40 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 23:04:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>
	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>
	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>
	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>

This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the opportunities?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi 
> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA degree in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human services.  I am  looking for work or volunteer in the field of human service.  I need more work experience on my resume.
> Becky 
>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi illie,
>> 
>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. It
>> would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people
>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is something
>> you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also volunteer for a
>> Hospice or other facility that involves nursing care. Some of these
>> kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer intern opportunities
>> for teens. Good luck!
>> Arielle
>> 
>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some nonprofits
>>> around here and talking to some people as to what I could do. Again, thanks
>>> for all the help.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Lillie,
>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also conduct
>>>> informational interviews which basically means you interview someone in
>>>> the field about their job; ask how they got there, what skills they use,
>>>> what typical duties are like, and what they like and dislike about the
>>>> job.
>>>> 
>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just take jobs
>>>> they don't like or they go to higher education and study a lot. After
>>>> studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs and find out they hate the
>>>> field.
>>>> 
>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  2 04:36:07 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2013 23:36:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>
	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>
	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>
	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY++1dCqEiRpsjM-=EyTmEVqpR8mxh5kyaBiqNbhdQJOg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've found the best way to look for opportunities is to just go out
and find them.  Listen to what others are doing around you.  If
someone wins a scholarship from a local thing in your area and there
is a bio that says, "He volunteers at place X doing work with the
Elderly, and place Y helping the homeless," and those things sound
appealing to you, call the locations and see if they could use the
extra set of hands.  I've found the name of the game in volunteering
is just making yourself known and available to the agencies because
otherwise they won't always be actively looking for volunteers.

In my experiences, it is rare that someone else will put you in touch
with an opportunity.  I've only had that happen to me once, and I
don't expect that to happen again since it was just fortunate
circumstance.  If you can find an email on a web site, try that first
as people check email much more quickly than phone these days.  If you
need to try calling do it.  If they want an in-person interview,
arrange it as best you can.  (I did that for one of my volunteer jobs
and it was really beneficial.  I got to know the staff in advance,
learn the layout of the building, and they got a sense of how I could
fit into the agency and how they could use my help.  If this is what
they ask for, do your best to make it work.

Try volunteering with psychologists.  Some will offer that to high
school students interested in the field.  In my experiences doing work
that was confidential, you may need to sign a form stating that you
won't reveal personal information about clients, but it's nothing that
will keep you from working with the agency.  Try to see if you can
work at a hospital of some sort.  That would have endless
opportunities for networking with different people and different age
groups.  Schools are great too.  In my senior year I got to job shadow
a speech pathologist, even though I was in a teaching program.  Try to
tie things in from interdisciplinary fields whenever possible.  I
think all the suggestions given sound great, but I will send more if I
think of them.

On 12/1/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the
> opportunities?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA degree
>> in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human services.  I am
>> looking for work or volunteer in the field of human service.  I need more
>> work experience on my resume.
>> Becky
>>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi illie,
>>>
>>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. It
>>> would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people
>>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is something
>>> you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also volunteer for a
>>> Hospice or other facility that involves nursing care. Some of these
>>> kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer intern opportunities
>>> for teens. Good luck!
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some
>>>> nonprofits
>>>> around here and talking to some people as to what I could do. Again,
>>>> thanks
>>>> for all the help.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lillie,
>>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also conduct
>>>>> informational interviews which basically means you interview someone
>>>>> in
>>>>> the field about their job; ask how they got there, what skills they
>>>>> use,
>>>>> what typical duties are like, and what they like and dislike about the
>>>>> job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just take
>>>>> jobs
>>>>> they don't like or they go to higher education and study a lot. After
>>>>> studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs and find out they hate
>>>>> the
>>>>> field.
>>>>>
>>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Dec  2 17:51:15 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 11:51:15 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Cyber Monday Textbook Sale
Message-ID: <auto-000133814416@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>Insert and submit  the code "Monday" in our shopping cart customer code
>field and receive an immediate 20% discount!
>
>
>
>http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/textbooks.htm
>
>
>
>CathyAnne
>
>
>
>CathyAnne Murtha
>
>Director
>
>Access Technology Institute
>
>cathy at blindtraining.com <mailto:cathy at blindtraining.com>
>
>www.blindtraining.com <http://www.blindtraining.com/>
>
>Twitter: www.twitter.com/AccessTechInst
><http://www.twitter.com/AccessTechInst>
>
>Facebook: www.facebook.com/blindtraining
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>News mailing list
>News at lists.blindtraining.com
>http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Mon Dec  2 20:04:56 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 14:04:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FY++1dCqEiRpsjM-=EyTmEVqpR8mxh5kyaBiqNbhdQJOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>
	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>
	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>
	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
	<CAFja7FY++1dCqEiRpsjM-=EyTmEVqpR8mxh5kyaBiqNbhdQJOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nQgri4fuH2YFB+Lj+PvydnS6ej0=8NJUaR-EVA5jA-nA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lilly,

All these ideas are great.  I would definitely pursue the job
shadowing idea if you can.  As has already been pointed out, you may
be a little limitted in what you can do because of the confidentiality
involved in your particular career fields.  Another suggestion I would
offer is that you look into whether your high school has a senior
project program.  Some do, some don't.  Basically, the senior project
is a course, either elective or required, in which you create a
project, usually something that services the community and which is
focused on your chosen career field.  You usually have a mentor who
will help you and guide you toward your project goal.  For example,
when I was a senior, I learned how to conduct and then conducted my
high school choir.  Again, confidentiality could come into serious
play for you in your career fields, but it's something to look into.
If you want to know more, feel free to e-mail me off-list.  You might
also look into your local red-cross.  They always welcome vollunteers,
especially young people who want to go into counseling or nursing.  I
hope this helps.

On 12/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've found the best way to look for opportunities is to just go out
> and find them.  Listen to what others are doing around you.  If
> someone wins a scholarship from a local thing in your area and there
> is a bio that says, "He volunteers at place X doing work with the
> Elderly, and place Y helping the homeless," and those things sound
> appealing to you, call the locations and see if they could use the
> extra set of hands.  I've found the name of the game in volunteering
> is just making yourself known and available to the agencies because
> otherwise they won't always be actively looking for volunteers.
>
> In my experiences, it is rare that someone else will put you in touch
> with an opportunity.  I've only had that happen to me once, and I
> don't expect that to happen again since it was just fortunate
> circumstance.  If you can find an email on a web site, try that first
> as people check email much more quickly than phone these days.  If you
> need to try calling do it.  If they want an in-person interview,
> arrange it as best you can.  (I did that for one of my volunteer jobs
> and it was really beneficial.  I got to know the staff in advance,
> learn the layout of the building, and they got a sense of how I could
> fit into the agency and how they could use my help.  If this is what
> they ask for, do your best to make it work.
>
> Try volunteering with psychologists.  Some will offer that to high
> school students interested in the field.  In my experiences doing work
> that was confidential, you may need to sign a form stating that you
> won't reveal personal information about clients, but it's nothing that
> will keep you from working with the agency.  Try to see if you can
> work at a hospital of some sort.  That would have endless
> opportunities for networking with different people and different age
> groups.  Schools are great too.  In my senior year I got to job shadow
> a speech pathologist, even though I was in a teaching program.  Try to
> tie things in from interdisciplinary fields whenever possible.  I
> think all the suggestions given sound great, but I will send more if I
> think of them.
>
> On 12/1/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>> This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the
>> opportunities?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA
>>> degree
>>> in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human services.  I am
>>> looking for work or volunteer in the field of human service.  I need
>>> more
>>> work experience on my resume.
>>> Becky
>>>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi illie,
>>>>
>>>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. It
>>>> would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people
>>>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is something
>>>> you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also volunteer for a
>>>> Hospice or other facility that involves nursing care. Some of these
>>>> kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer intern opportunities
>>>> for teens. Good luck!
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some
>>>>> nonprofits
>>>>> around here and talking to some people as to what I could do. Again,
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> for all the help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lillie,
>>>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also conduct
>>>>>> informational interviews which basically means you interview someone
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the field about their job; ask how they got there, what skills they
>>>>>> use,
>>>>>> what typical duties are like, and what they like and dislike about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just take
>>>>>> jobs
>>>>>> they don't like or they go to higher education and study a lot. After
>>>>>> studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs and find out they hate
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> field.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Mon Dec  2 22:36:02 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 17:36:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1nQgri4fuH2YFB+Lj+PvydnS6ej0=8NJUaR-EVA5jA-nA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>	<CAFja7FY++1dCqEiRpsjM-=EyTmEVqpR8mxh5kyaBiqNbhdQJOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nQgri4fuH2YFB+Lj+PvydnS6ej0=8NJUaR-EVA5jA-nA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00de01ceefae$e223ad60$a66b0820$@net>

These are all grate ideas.
After looking at my schools course guide, it does not appear that this type
of senior project is listed. However, I may see if I could do it as some
sort of independent study for credit. 
I will also contact the red cross in my area, probably the volunteer
coordinator if there is one to see if this is an option, along with perhaps
some hospitals, since I liked that idea. 
I will also look at websites such as volunteer match to see if I can find
anything there.
Thanks everyone

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Silveira
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 3:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteering

Hi Lilly,

All these ideas are great.  I would definitely pursue the job shadowing idea
if you can.  As has already been pointed out, you may be a little limitted
in what you can do because of the confidentiality involved in your
particular career fields.  Another suggestion I would offer is that you look
into whether your high school has a senior project program.  Some do, some
don't.  Basically, the senior project is a course, either elective or
required, in which you create a project, usually something that services the
community and which is focused on your chosen career field.  You usually
have a mentor who will help you and guide you toward your project goal.  For
example, when I was a senior, I learned how to conduct and then conducted my
high school choir.  Again, confidentiality could come into serious play for
you in your career fields, but it's something to look into.
If you want to know more, feel free to e-mail me off-list.  You might also
look into your local red-cross.  They always welcome vollunteers, especially
young people who want to go into counseling or nursing.  I hope this helps.

On 12/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've found the best way to look for opportunities is to just go out 
> and find them.  Listen to what others are doing around you.  If 
> someone wins a scholarship from a local thing in your area and there 
> is a bio that says, "He volunteers at place X doing work with the 
> Elderly, and place Y helping the homeless," and those things sound 
> appealing to you, call the locations and see if they could use the 
> extra set of hands.  I've found the name of the game in volunteering 
> is just making yourself known and available to the agencies because 
> otherwise they won't always be actively looking for volunteers.
>
> In my experiences, it is rare that someone else will put you in touch 
> with an opportunity.  I've only had that happen to me once, and I 
> don't expect that to happen again since it was just fortunate 
> circumstance.  If you can find an email on a web site, try that first 
> as people check email much more quickly than phone these days.  If you 
> need to try calling do it.  If they want an in-person interview, 
> arrange it as best you can.  (I did that for one of my volunteer jobs 
> and it was really beneficial.  I got to know the staff in advance, 
> learn the layout of the building, and they got a sense of how I could 
> fit into the agency and how they could use my help.  If this is what 
> they ask for, do your best to make it work.
>
> Try volunteering with psychologists.  Some will offer that to high 
> school students interested in the field.  In my experiences doing work 
> that was confidential, you may need to sign a form stating that you 
> won't reveal personal information about clients, but it's nothing that 
> will keep you from working with the agency.  Try to see if you can 
> work at a hospital of some sort.  That would have endless 
> opportunities for networking with different people and different age 
> groups.  Schools are great too.  In my senior year I got to job shadow 
> a speech pathologist, even though I was in a teaching program.  Try to 
> tie things in from interdisciplinary fields whenever possible.  I 
> think all the suggestions given sound great, but I will send more if I 
> think of them.
>
> On 12/1/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>> This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the 
>> opportunities?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA 
>>> degree in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human 
>>> services.  I am looking for work or volunteer in the field of human 
>>> service.  I need more work experience on my resume.
>>> Becky
>>>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman 
>>>> <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi illie,
>>>>
>>>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. 
>>>> It would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people 
>>>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is 
>>>> something you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also 
>>>> volunteer for a Hospice or other facility that involves nursing 
>>>> care. Some of these kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer 
>>>> intern opportunities for teens. Good luck!
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some 
>>>>> nonprofits around here and talking to some people as to what I 
>>>>> could do. Again, thanks for all the help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lillie,
>>>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also 
>>>>>> conduct informational interviews which basically means you 
>>>>>> interview someone in the field about their job; ask how they got 
>>>>>> there, what skills they use, what typical duties are like, and 
>>>>>> what they like and dislike about the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just 
>>>>>> take jobs they don't like or they go to higher education and 
>>>>>> study a lot. After studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs 
>>>>>> and find out they hate the field.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40
> gmail.com
>


--
Ryan L. Silveira

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
net



From jhud7789 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  2 23:04:53 2013
From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 17:04:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <00de01ceefae$e223ad60$a66b0820$@net>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>
	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>
	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>
	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
	<CAFja7FY++1dCqEiRpsjM-=EyTmEVqpR8mxh5kyaBiqNbhdQJOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nQgri4fuH2YFB+Lj+PvydnS6ej0=8NJUaR-EVA5jA-nA@mail.gmail.com>
	<00de01ceefae$e223ad60$a66b0820$@net>
Message-ID: <56988E5E-7AC1-49E3-B199-2F3793DB49B9@gmail.com>

Hello Lilly, if none of the below ideas work out I suggest talking to your local city and seeing if they have a volunteer Cordinator for you could volunteer with the city and help out at like special holiday event and whatnot. Have a great deal of fun doing it.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2013, at 4:36 PM, "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> 
> These are all grate ideas.
> After looking at my schools course guide, it does not appear that this type
> of senior project is listed. However, I may see if I could do it as some
> sort of independent study for credit. 
> I will also contact the red cross in my area, probably the volunteer
> coordinator if there is one to see if this is an option, along with perhaps
> some hospitals, since I liked that idea. 
> I will also look at websites such as volunteer match to see if I can find
> anything there.
> Thanks everyone
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 3:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteering
> 
> Hi Lilly,
> 
> All these ideas are great.  I would definitely pursue the job shadowing idea
> if you can.  As has already been pointed out, you may be a little limitted
> in what you can do because of the confidentiality involved in your
> particular career fields.  Another suggestion I would offer is that you look
> into whether your high school has a senior project program.  Some do, some
> don't.  Basically, the senior project is a course, either elective or
> required, in which you create a project, usually something that services the
> community and which is focused on your chosen career field.  You usually
> have a mentor who will help you and guide you toward your project goal.  For
> example, when I was a senior, I learned how to conduct and then conducted my
> high school choir.  Again, confidentiality could come into serious play for
> you in your career fields, but it's something to look into.
> If you want to know more, feel free to e-mail me off-list.  You might also
> look into your local red-cross.  They always welcome vollunteers, especially
> young people who want to go into counseling or nursing.  I hope this helps.
> 
>> On 12/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've found the best way to look for opportunities is to just go out 
>> and find them.  Listen to what others are doing around you.  If 
>> someone wins a scholarship from a local thing in your area and there 
>> is a bio that says, "He volunteers at place X doing work with the 
>> Elderly, and place Y helping the homeless," and those things sound 
>> appealing to you, call the locations and see if they could use the 
>> extra set of hands.  I've found the name of the game in volunteering 
>> is just making yourself known and available to the agencies because 
>> otherwise they won't always be actively looking for volunteers.
>> 
>> In my experiences, it is rare that someone else will put you in touch 
>> with an opportunity.  I've only had that happen to me once, and I 
>> don't expect that to happen again since it was just fortunate 
>> circumstance.  If you can find an email on a web site, try that first 
>> as people check email much more quickly than phone these days.  If you 
>> need to try calling do it.  If they want an in-person interview, 
>> arrange it as best you can.  (I did that for one of my volunteer jobs 
>> and it was really beneficial.  I got to know the staff in advance, 
>> learn the layout of the building, and they got a sense of how I could 
>> fit into the agency and how they could use my help.  If this is what 
>> they ask for, do your best to make it work.
>> 
>> Try volunteering with psychologists.  Some will offer that to high 
>> school students interested in the field.  In my experiences doing work 
>> that was confidential, you may need to sign a form stating that you 
>> won't reveal personal information about clients, but it's nothing that 
>> will keep you from working with the agency.  Try to see if you can 
>> work at a hospital of some sort.  That would have endless 
>> opportunities for networking with different people and different age 
>> groups.  Schools are great too.  In my senior year I got to job shadow 
>> a speech pathologist, even though I was in a teaching program.  Try to 
>> tie things in from interdisciplinary fields whenever possible.  I 
>> think all the suggestions given sound great, but I will send more if I 
>> think of them.
>> 
>>> On 12/1/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>> This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the 
>>> opportunities?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA 
>>>> degree in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human 
>>>> services.  I am looking for work or volunteer in the field of human 
>>>> service.  I need more work experience on my resume.
>>>> Becky
>>>>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman 
>>>>> <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi illie,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. 
>>>>> It would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people 
>>>>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is 
>>>>> something you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also 
>>>>> volunteer for a Hospice or other facility that involves nursing 
>>>>> care. Some of these kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer 
>>>>> intern opportunities for teens. Good luck!
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some 
>>>>>> nonprofits around here and talking to some people as to what I 
>>>>>> could do. Again, thanks for all the help.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Lillie,
>>>>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also 
>>>>>>> conduct informational interviews which basically means you 
>>>>>>> interview someone in the field about their job; ask how they got 
>>>>>>> there, what skills they use, what typical duties are like, and 
>>>>>>> what they like and dislike about the job.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just 
>>>>>>> take jobs they don't like or they go to higher education and 
>>>>>>> study a lot. After studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs 
>>>>>>> and find out they hate the field.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104
>>> %40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40
>> gmail.com
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
> net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  2 20:46:15 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 15:46:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net><E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC><F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net><CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com><41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <B66C1FCF8EBB4DDB9AD542E96018CA6C@OwnerPC>

you can search online or network by asking people in your  community.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 11:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteering

This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the 
opportunities?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA degree 
> in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human services.  I am 
> looking for work or volunteer in the field of human service.  I need more 
> work experience on my resume.
> Becky
>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi illie,
>>
>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. It
>> would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people
>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is something
>> you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also volunteer for a
>> Hospice or other facility that involves nursing care. Some of these
>> kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer intern opportunities
>> for teens. Good luck!
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some 
>>> nonprofits
>>> around here and talking to some people as to what I could do. Again, 
>>> thanks
>>> for all the help.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Lillie,
>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also conduct
>>>> informational interviews which basically means you interview someone in
>>>> the field about their job; ask how they got there, what skills they 
>>>> use,
>>>> what typical duties are like, and what they like and dislike about the
>>>> job.
>>>>
>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just take 
>>>> jobs
>>>> they don't like or they go to higher education and study a lot. After
>>>> studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs and find out they hate 
>>>> the
>>>> field.
>>>>
>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 03:20:50 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:20:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone
Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and her
mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to California
and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions all
my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't do
anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just want
things back to normal.

Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988

From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Tue Dec  3 03:37:49 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:37:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>

How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have you tried calmly talking to her?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone
> Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and her
> mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to California
> and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions all
> my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't do
> anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just want
> things back to normal.
> 
> Lavar J Phillips
> 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> Cell # (917) 858 3368
> Twitter lavar1988
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Dec  3 03:49:51 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 03:49:51 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <81d3ad8015514e6b8e00bbecf2195d56@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Good grief!
Reminds me of the old Blues song, "Mother-In-Law!"
You and this girlfriend need to get away from the old lady!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Lillie Pennington [lilliepennington at fuse.net]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 9:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?

How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have you tried calmly talking to her?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
> Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and her
> mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to California
> and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions all
> my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't do
> anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just want
> things back to normal.
>
> Lavar J Phillips
> 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> Cell # (917) 858 3368
> Twitter lavar1988
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 03:59:54 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcbx_ZKddZ_G3UeeMnGdGJuK2Bh4G3murMmBYcO-DKnA-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Okay I would offer to do Laundry shopping cooking she says no and then when
she does it she says you can't help and she argues with me about being on
my computer I manage websites just all the stuff I used to do

Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
On Dec 2, 2013 10:38 PM, "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
wrote:

> How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have
> you tried calmly talking to her?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone
> > Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> > to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> her
> > mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> California
> > and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> > months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> > laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> > her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> all
> > my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> do
> > anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> want
> > things back to normal.
> >
> > Lavar J Phillips
> > 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> > Cell # (917) 858 3368
> > Twitter lavar1988
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
>

From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 04:01:30 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 23:01:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <81d3ad8015514e6b8e00bbecf2195d56@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
	<81d3ad8015514e6b8e00bbecf2195d56@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcbsXnrba+MUaiC0Z46E-aqy+hipTNKJq=gOSsTKv+ruHw@mail.gmail.com>

Haha I'm all for that hopefully she leaves after the holiday

Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
On Dec 2, 2013 10:50 PM, "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:

> Good grief!
> Reminds me of the old Blues song, "Mother-In-Law!"
> You and this girlfriend need to get away from the old lady!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Lillie Pennington [
> lilliepennington at fuse.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 9:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
>
> How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have
> you tried calmly talking to her?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone
> > Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> > to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> her
> > mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> California
> > and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> > months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> > laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> > her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> all
> > my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> do
> > anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> want
> > things back to normal.
> >
> > Lavar J Phillips
> > 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> > Cell # (917) 858 3368
> > Twitter lavar1988
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
>

From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec  3 04:42:29 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:42:29 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <CAE_QBcbx_ZKddZ_G3UeeMnGdGJuK2Bh4G3murMmBYcO-DKnA-Q@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
	<CAE_QBcbx_ZKddZ_G3UeeMnGdGJuK2Bh4G3murMmBYcO-DKnA-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.95.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Evening, Lavar,

Did you become blind after you and chicky met or, did you become 
acquainted after already having a relationship?
for today, Car

07:59 PM 12/2/2013, you wrote:
>Okay I would offer to do Laundry shopping cooking she says no and then when
>she does it she says you can't help and she argues with me about being on
>my computer I manage websites just all the stuff I used to do
>
>Lavar J Phillips
>5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
>Cell # (917) 858 3368
>Twitter lavar1988
>On Dec 2, 2013 10:38 PM, "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
>wrote:
>
> > How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have
> > you tried calmly talking to her?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone
> > > Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> > > to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> > her
> > > mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> > California
> > > and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> > > months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> > > laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> > > her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> > all
> > > my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> > do
> > > anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> > want
> > > things back to normal.
> > >
> > > Lavar J Phillips
> > > 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> > > Cell # (917) 858 3368
> > > Twitter lavar1988
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > >
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
> >
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec  3 04:48:36 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:48:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.96.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>


Hi, Lavar,

I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit 
about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self 
sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be 
helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step aside?
Please call me! 408-209-3239

/2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
>Hi everyone
>Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
>to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and her
>mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to California
>and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
>months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
>laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
>her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions all
>my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't do
>anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just want
>things back to normal.
>
>Lavar J Phillips
>5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
>Cell # (917) 858 3368
>Twitter lavar1988
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 16:23:29 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 10:23:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering
In-Reply-To: <B66C1FCF8EBB4DDB9AD542E96018CA6C@OwnerPC>
References: <00e701ceebe5$8c44a470$a4cded50$@net>
	<E32D9292E8BD4160887EF2033BD4302B@OwnerPC>
	<F1F993BA-122B-4BC7-A62E-033D621E055F@fuse.net>
	<CALAYQJAAcCdWa4JqwRk14Fdv36wdmwkVrcric+=09SdiGWiZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F7FA74-40B4-4D22-9996-B2CE3D93A951@gmail.com>
	<26467C29-DF86-4EC5-B082-2681CBEC538F@fuse.net>
	<B66C1FCF8EBB4DDB9AD542E96018CA6C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1=vyjf3cNE9v-d65VOeB6EX21E5jOxZqW3=1XF5brzoQA@mail.gmail.com>

I just had a thought.  Does your school have a career center?  If so,
you might talk to them.  I'm sure they could help look for
opportunities.  You might also try your guidance office.  I know
guidance counselors are a pain, but they are helpful...sometimes.
Anyway, just a thought.  If you have any friends or family members who
are in your chosen career fields or who know people in those fields,
you might talk to them.  It's always good to have a network of people
in your chosen career.  It will help you to get vollunteering
opportunities and with a lot of other things in the future.  Good
luck!

Ryan

On 12/2/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> you can search online or network by asking people in your  community.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 11:04 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteering
>
> This raises a good question. How does one go about finding the
> opportunities?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 29, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Rebecca Sabo <beckyasabo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> How do you get involved to fine volunteer positions ?  I have my AA degree
>>
>> in Human Services.  I am working toward my BA in human services.  I am
>> looking for work or volunteer in the field of human service.  I need more
>>
>> work experience on my resume.
>> Becky
>>> On Nov 28, 2013, at 1:33 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi illie,
>>>
>>> I volunteered for a teen crisis hotline when I was in high school. It
>>> would be a great way to learn what it is like to counsel people
>>> dealing with serious life challenges and to see if this is something
>>> you enjoy and feel comfortable with. You could also volunteer for a
>>> Hospice or other facility that involves nursing care. Some of these
>>> kinds of programs may have job shadow or summer intern opportunities
>>> for teens. Good luck!
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 11/27/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will begin looking into some
>>>> nonprofits
>>>> around here and talking to some people as to what I could do. Again,
>>>> thanks
>>>> for all the help.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lillie,
>>>>> I suggest you job shadow some people in these fields. Also conduct
>>>>> informational interviews which basically means you interview someone
>>>>> in
>>>>> the field about their job; ask how they got there, what skills they
>>>>> use,
>>>>> what typical duties are like, and what they like and dislike about the
>>>>> job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its smart of you to research careers because so many people just take
>>>>> jobs
>>>>> they don't like or they go to higher education and study a lot. After
>>>>> studying and obtaining a degree, they get jobs and find out they hate
>>>>> the
>>>>> field.
>>>>>
>>>>> Preparing early will help you get a good career and a happy one too.
>>>>> To volunteer, look at nonprofits.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 16:31:11 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 11:31:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <529d615f.e71b310a.600c.fffff15fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ABF1347A-89F4-4432-922C-7FD9C9912B09@fuse.net>
	<CAE_QBcbx_ZKddZ_G3UeeMnGdGJuK2Bh4G3murMmBYcO-DKnA-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<529d615f.e71b310a.600c.fffff15fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcZjOcukhzkoJ0uajU6rR11q1K_24sUHD6u94reZrw_ZzQ@mail.gmail.com>

No my vision did not change in any way.
My girlfriend is completely blind so nothing has changed since her mom met
me Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
Evening, Lavar,

Did you become blind after you and chicky met or, did you become acquainted
after already having a relationship?
for today, Car

07:59 PM 12/2/2013, you wrote:

> Okay I would offer to do Laundry shopping cooking she says no and then when
> she does it she says you can't help and she argues with me about being on
> my computer I manage websites just all the stuff I used to do
>
> Lavar J Phillips
> 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> Cell # (917) 858 3368
> Twitter lavar1988
> On Dec 2, 2013 10:38 PM, "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
> wrote:
>
> > How exactly is she restricting you? Some exAmples would help. Also, have
> > you tried calmly talking to her?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:20 PM, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone
> > > Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so
> used
> > > to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> > her
> > > mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> > California
> > > and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> > > months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can
> cook,clean,
> > > laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I
> tell
> > > her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> > all
> > > my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> > do
> > > anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> > want
> > > things back to normal.
> > >
> > > Lavar J Phillips
> > > 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> > > Cell # (917) 858 3368
> > > Twitter lavar1988
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
> lilliepennington%40fuse.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
> lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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lavarjphillips%40gmail.com

From i.c.bray at win.net  Tue Dec  3 17:38:02 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 12:38:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
Message-ID: <5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>

Agreed!

Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without her 
passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless 
people need to be put back into their proper place.

I. C. Bray



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?


:
: Hi, Lavar,
:
: I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
: about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
: sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
: helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step aside?
: Please call me! 408-209-3239
:
: /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
: >Hi everyone
: >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
: >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and 
her
: >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to 
California
: >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
: >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
: >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
: >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions 
all
: >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't 
do
: >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just 
want
: >things back to normal.
: >
: >Lavar J Phillips
: >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
: >Cell # (917) 858 3368
: >Twitter lavar1988
: >_______________________________________________
: >nabs-l mailing list
: >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: 
 >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Tue Dec  3 19:38:01 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 14:38:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
	<5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
Message-ID: <1F01F923-8928-4390-906E-CFD66EB45987@fuse.net>

If your girlfriend is completely blind then does her mother let her do anything?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2013, at 12:38 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> 
> Agreed!
> 
> Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without her 
> passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
> Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless 
> people need to be put back into their proper place.
> 
> I. C. Bray
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
> 
> 
> :
> : Hi, Lavar,
> :
> : I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
> : about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
> : sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
> : helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step aside?
> : Please call me! 408-209-3239
> :
> : /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
> : >Hi everyone
> : >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so used
> : >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and 
> her
> : >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to 
> California
> : >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> : >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> : >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> : >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions 
> all
> : >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't 
> do
> : >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just 
> want
> : >things back to normal.
> : >
> : >Lavar J Phillips
> : >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> : >Cell # (917) 858 3368
> : >Twitter lavar1988
> : >_______________________________________________
> : >nabs-l mailing list
> : >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> : 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Dec  3 23:10:32 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 23:10:32 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
Message-ID: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Dear listers!
I never thought this day would come!
I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe from this list forever.
It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and I'll continue writing you guys off list.
Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
Thanks, Joshua

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 23:23:05 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 18:23:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <005001cef07e$9ee0c800$dca25800$@gmail.com>

Congratulations Josh.  Outstanding. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 6:11 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!

Dear listers!
I never thought this day would come!
I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe
from this list forever.
It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and
I'll continue writing you guys off list.
Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
Thanks, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 23:37:02 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 23:37:02 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <1F01F923-8928-4390-906E-CFD66EB45987@fuse.net>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
	<5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
	<1F01F923-8928-4390-906E-CFD66EB45987@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH6-Y6Q3w5cei+BHYVkRBQE83RXOCbArQAiD_axOKxZH0sQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Lavar,
Try having a conversation with your girlfriend's mother about issues
you have with each other. You could start by saying that this is an
opportunity for you both to share what you dislike about each other's
behaviour, without any interuptions. You could use a timer where you
speak for two minutes each and keep swapping. No insults, just things
you dislike about each other's behaviour, what you'd like to be
different etc.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 12/3/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> If your girlfriend is completely blind then does her mother let her do
> anything?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 3, 2013, at 12:38 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed!
>>
>> Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without her
>>
>> passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
>> Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless
>> people need to be put back into their proper place.
>>
>> I. C. Bray
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
>>
>>
>> :
>> : Hi, Lavar,
>> :
>> : I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
>> : about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
>> : sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
>> : helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step
>> aside?
>> : Please call me! 408-209-3239
>> :
>> : /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
>> : >Hi everyone
>> : >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so
>> used
>> : >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
>>
>> her
>> : >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
>> California
>> : >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
>> : >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can
>> cook,clean,
>> : >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I
>> tell
>> : >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
>>
>> all
>> : >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
>>
>> do
>> : >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
>> want
>> : >things back to normal.
>> : >
>> : >Lavar J Phillips
>> : >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
>> : >Cell # (917) 858 3368
>> : >Twitter lavar1988
>> : >_______________________________________________
>> : >nabs-l mailing list
>> : >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> :
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> :
>> :
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 23:49:42 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 18:49:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <1F01F923-8928-4390-906E-CFD66EB45987@fuse.net>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
	<5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
	<1F01F923-8928-4390-906E-CFD66EB45987@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcbg7enYYSNG-_S3K9Su0z6Gg6+KPQgcKoW6CS9xqxcN2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Okay things that she does that I can't stand moves things from where I put
them. Not only is that bad for me but for my girlfriend. Also she tells me
how to cook after I tell her I got this over and over. I try to be nice
about it cause you know she all older then me and stuff and my girlfriend's
mom in all. Then for thanksgiving she wanted me to serve everyone and I was
like no. How do I deal with het until she is gone oh yeah she rearrange my
kitchen
Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
If your girlfriend is completely blind then does her mother let her do
anything?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 3, 2013, at 12:38 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>
> Agreed!
>
> Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without her
> passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
> Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless
> people need to be put back into their proper place.
>
> I. C. Bray
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
>
>
> :
> : Hi, Lavar,
> :
> : I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
> : about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
> : sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
> : helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step
aside?
> : Please call me! 408-209-3239
> :
> : /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
> : >Hi everyone
> : >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so
used
> : >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> her
> : >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> California
> : >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> : >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can
cook,clean,
> : >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I
tell
> : >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> all
> : >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> do
> : >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> want
> : >things back to normal.
> : >
> : >Lavar J Phillips
> : >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> : >Cell # (917) 858 3368
> : >Twitter lavar1988
> : >_______________________________________________
> : >nabs-l mailing list
> : >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> :
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com

From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Tue Dec  3 23:50:57 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 18:50:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
	<5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcbMS0O-0iG0OK6DJ--d282fowJYBfh8Cmo3p0e5LNobJA@mail.gmail.com>

I want to talk to her but I don't want her to hate me

Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
On Dec 3, 2013 12:38 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:

> Agreed!
>
> Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without her
> passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
> Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless
> people need to be put back into their proper place.
>
> I. C. Bray
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
>
>
> :
> : Hi, Lavar,
> :
> : I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
> : about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
> : sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
> : helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step
> aside?
> : Please call me! 408-209-3239
> :
> : /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
> : >Hi everyone
> : >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so
> used
> : >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
> her
> : >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
> California
> : >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
> : >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can cook,clean,
> : >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I tell
> : >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she questions
> all
> : >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I don't
> do
> : >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
> want
> : >things back to normal.
> : >
> : >Lavar J Phillips
> : >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> : >Cell # (917) 858 3368
> : >Twitter lavar1988
> : >_______________________________________________
> : >nabs-l mailing list
> : >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> :
>  >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
>

From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Wed Dec  4 03:35:20 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 22:35:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D37D9D79-13D2-4BEA-894F-EA704FFA7484@aol.com>

Congratulations and best of luck. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 3, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Dear listers!
> I never thought this day would come!
> I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
> I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
> I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe from this list forever.
> It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and I'll continue writing you guys off list.
> Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  4 03:44:52 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 03:44:52 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Farewell_NABS!?=
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS390DC52A3CB612F5B4EA8A5CBD40@phx.gbl>

Congrats Josh, and good luck to you in your future!

Sincerely,

Preston








Sent from Windows Mail





From: Bridget Walker
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎3‎, ‎2013 ‎10‎:‎42‎ ‎PM
To: Nabs-l





Congratulations and best of luck. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 3, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Dear listers!
> I never thought this day would come!
> I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
> I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
> I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe from this list forever.
> It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and I'll continue writing you guys off list.
> Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com

From lavarjphillips at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 03:46:10 2013
From: lavarjphillips at gmail.com (Lavar Phillips)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 22:46:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAE_QBcaOUVtSTrupis5Oxy5jQHpwCvJ8sFYJJaSS=g23MD6JJQ@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations best of luck hope to see you on other list.

Lavar J Phillips
5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
Cell # (917) 858 3368
Twitter lavar1988
On Dec 3, 2013 6:11 PM, "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:

> Dear listers!
> I never thought this day would come!
> I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
> I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
> I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll
> unsubscribe from this list forever.
> It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and
> I'll continue writing you guys off list.
> Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
>

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  4 04:11:13 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 23:11:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS30C5F628E882C877C8095F5D40@phx.gbl>

Hey! Joshua! What's up? Congrats! for you graduation! That is really great! 
I just wanted to ask you, could you send me  your new email adress that you 
are  going to have in your new computer, since you are going to unsubscribe 
from the NABS list tomorrow? Thanks and God bless!
P.S. Hope we can keep in touch!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 6:10 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!

Dear listers!
I never thought this day would come!
I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe 
from this list forever.
It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and 
I'll continue writing you guys off list.
Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
Thanks, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  4 07:13:05 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 02:13:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  Christian songs that encourage me to Keep Going
References: <BLU172-DS1B01C1A89ABCEFD34254BF54C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS16251C852631486D7CE7D51F5D40@phx.gbl>

This is just in case you   guys didn't receive them :-)

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: August 21, 2013, 1:01:52 AM EDT
> To: "National Association of Blind Students" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Christian songs that encourage me to Keep Going
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Hi all, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that here are two songs that encourage me to keep going. They are actually Christian songs, and I really like them a lot! The first song is called “Build Your Kingdom Here” by the band Rend Collective Experiment. And the second song is called “Possibilities” by the band Sanctus Real. These songs really have a powerful message, and the lyrics are awesome! These songs as I mention before it encourage me to keep going even though if I’m facing good or bad circumstances throughout my life. Just to let you know, these bands are actually a Christian rock bands, and they actually have a very powerful life testimony, and you should check them out! I’m actually a Christian and I believe that God created us for a purpose! Hope you like them! Also, could you guys let me know what do you think of them? Thanks! and God bless!!   
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54twI6V-3-A
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlJaIFCKQzs
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 11:03:41 2013
From: christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com (Christopher Meyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 06:03:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Tablets for School
Message-ID: <022f01cef0e0$7e691700$7b3b4500$@gmail.com>

Hi All,

 

I'm considering buying a tablet for use in my college classes. It would be
my first tablet so I'm looking for some advice. Tablet-owners, especially
who own their own, and have experience with iOS, Android and/or Microsoft
Windows would be best. Here's some background:

 

I'm a strong JAWS for Windows and VoiceOver for iOS on iPhone user. 

I just purchased a MacBook Pro, so VoiceOver on the Mac will soon be another
option on the laptop side of things.

I plan to dual boot my Mac with Windows 8 and JAWS 15.

I use Dropbox and Box for file-sharing.

I own a BrailleNote Apex from HumanWare and sync it regularly with my
iPhone.

 

My biggest needs are: 

device good for note-taking (using a wireless keyboards seems the obvious
best option).

compatibility across devices (tablet to Mac and vice versa).

Flexible screen-reader (I'm not so sold on VoiceOver that Android or Windows
are out of the running)

 

If people with actual experience could give me recommendations, I'm
considering: iPad Air (newest model), Nexis 7, and Windows Pro or Surface
tablets. 

 

You can also reach me off-list (email below).

 

Best,

Christopher Meyer

 

Christopher S. Meyer

President, Indiana Association of Blind Students

Innovation to Enterprise Central Intern

B.S. Student of Public Affairs

Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI)

christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com

 

 

 


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Wed Dec  4 11:15:50 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 11:15:50 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS30C5F628E882C877C8095F5D40@phx.gbl>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<BLU172-DS30C5F628E882C877C8095F5D40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7ff9d1aad3fe451d936d68b83b471e32@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I'll stay in touch with you.
BTW, I'm going to ask this question here.
Would it be cheaper for me to order my Mac online?
I'm going to best Buy today, and they're charging alot of money.
Thanks, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!

Hey! Joshua! What's up? Congrats! for you graduation! That is really great!
I just wanted to ask you, could you send me  your new email adress that you
are  going to have in your new computer, since you are going to unsubscribe
from the NABS list tomorrow? Thanks and God bless!
P.S. Hope we can keep in touch!

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 6:10 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!

Dear listers!
I never thought this day would come!
I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe
from this list forever.
It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and
I'll continue writing you guys off list.
Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
Thanks, Joshua
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 11:18:46 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 06:18:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Tablets for School
In-Reply-To: <022f01cef0e0$7e691700$7b3b4500$@gmail.com>
References: <022f01cef0e0$7e691700$7b3b4500$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E295033C-556B-41E0-A52A-3CD5D68D4D60@gmail.com>

Hello, the iPad has long been known to be the best for school sort of applications, what with it being accessible, and offering more features for school bound students… Such as iBooks textbooks, good notetaking apps, pages, among other things. Also, if you already are familiar with iOS, you might be better off with iPad because there won't be as much of a learning curve, which is quite important because you won't have to learn a new thing while still having to adapt to  the demands and pressures of school or other similar and/or related situations at the same time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:03 AM, "Christopher Meyer" <christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm considering buying a tablet for use in my college classes. It would be
> my first tablet so I'm looking for some advice. Tablet-owners, especially
> who own their own, and have experience with iOS, Android and/or Microsoft
> Windows would be best. Here's some background:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a strong JAWS for Windows and VoiceOver for iOS on iPhone user. 
> 
> I just purchased a MacBook Pro, so VoiceOver on the Mac will soon be another
> option on the laptop side of things.
> 
> I plan to dual boot my Mac with Windows 8 and JAWS 15.
> 
> I use Dropbox and Box for file-sharing.
> 
> I own a BrailleNote Apex from HumanWare and sync it regularly with my
> iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> My biggest needs are: 
> 
> device good for note-taking (using a wireless keyboards seems the obvious
> best option).
> 
> compatibility across devices (tablet to Mac and vice versa).
> 
> Flexible screen-reader (I'm not so sold on VoiceOver that Android or Windows
> are out of the running)
> 
> 
> 
> If people with actual experience could give me recommendations, I'm
> considering: iPad Air (newest model), Nexis 7, and Windows Pro or Surface
> tablets. 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also reach me off-list (email below).
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Christopher Meyer
> 
> 
> 
> Christopher S. Meyer
> 
> President, Indiana Association of Blind Students
> 
> Innovation to Enterprise Central Intern
> 
> B.S. Student of Public Affairs
> 
> Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI)
> 
> christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 11:19:29 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 06:19:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
In-Reply-To: <7ff9d1aad3fe451d936d68b83b471e32@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b7be588a96034d16b87c6c9fb7930616@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<BLU172-DS30C5F628E882C877C8095F5D40@phx.gbl>
	<7ff9d1aad3fe451d936d68b83b471e32@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D460BCB5-FF8A-4A18-8862-7066155C1ED1@gmail.com>

Max are expensive no matter what you do, you might be better off going to the Apple Store… You can get student discounted pricing there.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2013, at 6:15 AM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> 
> I'll stay in touch with you.
> BTW, I'm going to ask this question here.
> Would it be cheaper for me to order my Mac online?
> I'm going to best Buy today, and they're charging alot of money.
> Thanks, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Helga Schreiber [helga.schreiber at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
> 
> Hey! Joshua! What's up? Congrats! for you graduation! That is really great!
> I just wanted to ask you, could you send me  your new email adress that you
> are  going to have in your new computer, since you are going to unsubscribe
> from the NABS list tomorrow? Thanks and God bless!
> P.S. Hope we can keep in touch!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2013 6:10 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Farewell NABS!
> 
> Dear listers!
> I never thought this day would come!
> I graduate next Thursday, and tomorrow I'm getting a new computer.
> I'll be unsubscribing from all of the lists, with this address.
> I'll come back to most of these lists with my new one, but I'll unsubscribe
> from this list forever.
> It has been good getting to know those of you that I've met on here, and
> I'll continue writing you guys off list.
> Thanks for all of the help you guys have given me.
> Thanks, Joshua
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 18:47:55 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 10:47:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fwd: Youth with Disabilities Find Path to
	Employment Through National Service
References: <16789866.968@delivery.nationalservice.gov>
Message-ID: <DAC9AF7D-F486-4888-ABF6-77B69A4E8E86@gmail.com>

Hi all:
Very interesting stuff. Kind of makes sense if you think about it interested to hear your thoughts on the below information

This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Corporation for National & Community Service" <cncs at delivery.nationalservice.gov>
> Date: December 4, 2013 at 7:19:19 AM PST
> To: ds94124 at aol.com
> Subject: Youth with Disabilities Find Path to Employment Through National Service
> Reply-To: cncs at delivery.nationalservice.gov
> 
> 
> Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.
> 
> Youth with Disabilities Find Path to Employment Through National Service
> The job market for young job seekers is always challenging but especially so in a recovering economy. A letter from the Department of Labor’s Office of Disability Employment Policy and the Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS) outlines several of the avenues -- including service-learning and volunteering -- that can be used to release the untapped potential of all youth, including those with disabilities. 
> By opening doors to employment through volunteer and national service programs, youth and youth with disabilities will gain access to valuable job experiences and develop a network of contacts that can lead to employment later. CNCS research has found connections between volunteering and employment, including a 27 percent higher likelihood for volunteers finding work than non-volunteers.
> Guidance in the memo from the Department of Labor also addresses concerns about participation in CNCS programs such as AmeriCorps that provide a stipend, which may ease fears that national service would adversely affect those who receive Social Security benefits and their families. 
> Learn more about how youth with disabilities can improve their employment prospects by reading the full text of the memo and viewing helpful resources here.
>         
> Questions? Contact Us	SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Preferences	 Unsubscribe	Help
> This service is provided to you at no charge by Corporation for National and Community Service.
> This email was sent to ds94124 at aol.com using GovDelivery, on behalf of: Corporation for National & Community Service · 1201 New York Avenue, NW  · Washington, DC 20525 · (202) 606- 5000 · (800) 833-3722	

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 05:11:10 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 00:11:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] What do I say?
In-Reply-To: <CAE_QBcbMS0O-0iG0OK6DJ--d282fowJYBfh8Cmo3p0e5LNobJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE_QBcbT=unixwkLuhg64e+af-wC6SCKxOw6ijhtz+rQqVMUJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<201312030449.rB34nOg3017032@filter1.win.net>
	<5BA91C462D884D76AB38188725DB3AFE@JAWS>
	<CAE_QBcbMS0O-0iG0OK6DJ--d282fowJYBfh8Cmo3p0e5LNobJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYeBGzBqMbBx3A+YRSna5ZwNa1pefPeVnTqLOR2fCvGgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

That is where Sandra's idea comes in.  My roommates and I use a
similar system when we need to talk aout issues; our's is a "feeling
stick" which usually is my cane lol.  The person who holds it has the
floor and can say what they feel without interruption.  There is no
need to be insulting, just have all parties involved talk it out and
come to a mutual understanding.  It works very well.  I would
recommend having your girlfriend in on the conversation too.

I am also wondering if this is happening to your girlfriend as well.
Maybe there is something between her and the mom that is causing this
that you are unaware of?  I really don't know, but it's a thought, and
that's why it would be good to get your girlfriend in on the
conversation too.  Don't drag her in the middle of it necessarily, but
just have her in on what is going on, since this living arrangement
effects her too.

Try introducing the idea of calm conversation and see what it does.

On 12/3/13, Lavar Phillips <lavarjphillips at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to talk to her but I don't want her to hate me
>
> Lavar J Phillips
> 5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
> Cell # (917) 858 3368
> Twitter lavar1988
> On Dec 3, 2013 12:38 PM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>
>> Agreed!
>>
>> Letting her know that you've been doing fine all theese months without
>> her
>> passive-agressive attempt at parenting should do the trick.
>> Granted, it might shock her and make her bitter, but sometimes clueless
>> people need to be put back into their proper place.
>>
>> I. C. Bray
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Carly Mihalakis" <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 11:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] What do I say?
>>
>>
>> :
>> : Hi, Lavar,
>> :
>> : I second what Lilie said, just lay it out. Tell her a little bit
>> : about origins of your personal struggle for independence and self
>> : sufficiency, maybe even say that, inspite of folk trying to be
>> : helpful, you know what works best for you and could she please step
>> aside?
>> : Please call me! 408-209-3239
>> :
>> : /2013, Lavar Phillips wrote:
>> : >Hi everyone
>> : >Since I was 20 years old I have lived on my own and I have gotten so
>> used
>> : >to doing things my way. So last year I moved in with my girlfriend and
>> her
>> : >mom . It was great we all got along  then her mom  went away to
>> California
>> : >and my girlfriend and I were living great. Now  her mom is back for 3
>> : >months and she kinda restricts what I can do  even tho I can
>> cook,clean,
>> : >laundry and shopping . We also argue and I can't stand it  How do I
>> tell
>> : >her nicely that I don't need another mom I have one. Like she
>> questions
>> all
>> : >my actions doesn't let me do things the way I used  to and when I
>> don't
>> do
>> : >anything she yells at me. Am I wrong for just wanting her gone I just
>> want
>> : >things back to normal.
>> : >
>> : >Lavar J Phillips
>> : >5003 48 Street Woodside New York 11377
>> : >Cell # (917) 858 3368
>> : >Twitter lavar1988
>> : >_______________________________________________
>> : >nabs-l mailing list
>> : >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : >http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> :
>>  >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> :
>> :
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lavarjphillips%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From philosopher25 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 17:53:12 2013
From: philosopher25 at gmail.com (Sexton, bruce)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 08:53:12 -0900
Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS accessible LSAT Study Material
Message-ID: <024701cef1e2$deb415d0$9c1c4170$@gmail.com>

Hello,

 

Does anyone know where I can get JAWS accessible LSAT study material?  

 

I know from the Monitor that Sean Whalen received a high score of 173 using
excel.  I've tried to get in touch, but with little success.  If anyone
knows the best way other than the email address smwhalenpmp at gmail.com,
please email me at brucefsexton at gmail.com.  

 

Thanks,

Bruce Sexton  


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 18:20:12 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (christopher nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:20:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS accessible LSAT Study Material
In-Reply-To: <024701cef1e2$deb415d0$9c1c4170$@gmail.com>
References: <024701cef1e2$deb415d0$9c1c4170$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-3710613027183728364@unknownmsgid>

Bruce,

You might try emailing Sean at the following email address:
nabs.president at gmail.com. You can also locate his cell phone number on
the NABS Web site. I unfortunately do not have the experience to give
you any further information on accessible LSAT study materials.
However, others on this list, including Sean and Mary Fernandez, will
likely be able to give you some useful information. Good luck on your
future law school endeavors.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:55 PM, "Sexton, bruce" <philosopher25 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> Does anyone know where I can get JAWS accessible LSAT study material?
>
>
>
> I know from the Monitor that Sean Whalen received a high score of 173 using
> excel.  I've tried to get in touch, but with little success.  If anyone
> knows the best way other than the email address smwhalenpmp at gmail.com,
> please email me at brucefsexton at gmail.com.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce Sexton
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 18:36:46 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 13:36:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS accessible LSAT Study Material
In-Reply-To: <-3710613027183728364@unknownmsgid>
References: <024701cef1e2$deb415d0$9c1c4170$@gmail.com>
	<-3710613027183728364@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CADit0-uzfi_F3Tm+Ox9=iYo8Rfqmo=sKiVmD8ePxDHbB-NULAA@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce and all,
First, Sean is currently in grad school, approaching finals, so email
responses might be a bit slow.
He used Kaplan's study materials, which they provided as pdfs when he
signed up for the LSAT course. There is also a princeton review book
on cracking the LSAT on Bookshare, which you might want to start with.
Whatever you do stick with one study method, as each company has a
slightly different approach, and you want to find whatever works for
you best.
If you are a Braille reader, you may want to figure out what works
best when it comes to working out the logic games. Sean used Excel for
organizing the logic game criteria, which might or might not work for
you. If you have further questions, feel free to contact me off list.
Thanks.
Mary F

On 12/5/13, christopher nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> You might try emailing Sean at the following email address:
> nabs.president at gmail.com. You can also locate his cell phone number on
> the NABS Web site. I unfortunately do not have the experience to give
> you any further information on accessible LSAT study materials.
> However, others on this list, including Sean and Mary Fernandez, will
> likely be able to give you some useful information. Good luck on your
> future law school endeavors.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:55 PM, "Sexton, bruce" <philosopher25 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can get JAWS accessible LSAT study material?
>>
>>
>>
>> I know from the Monitor that Sean Whalen received a high score of 173
>> using
>> excel.  I've tried to get in touch, but with little success.  If anyone
>> knows the best way other than the email address smwhalenpmp at gmail.com,
>> please email me at brucefsexton at gmail.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bruce Sexton
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 22:47:39 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:47:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
Message-ID: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>

Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still 
bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting with 
the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job 
specialest called me.
He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center that 
does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I wasted 
my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for 
anyone to hire me.
this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in my 
corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met me. 
Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given up. 
But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
  I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and 
education and not anger.
thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
off to finish with school forever.
Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities. 

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 22:54:23 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:54:23 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBr8px21UkN5iEvZhaRAffoT4zxQ2v+r=ZoGL9HvTToUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Melissa,

It continues to baffle me why anybody would become a job developer for
people with disabilities if they don't believe in the capacities we
have to do the jobs we want to do. His comments directly contradict
the fact that many blind people become successful day care workers and
teachers.
I would suggest not having any further contact with this man as I
doubt there is much he could do to help you. You could try asking for
a different job developer, but I'm not sure how much having a job
developer at all is really worthwhile. It might be better to work with
your school's career services office, or anybody you know in the
childcare field, to learn about job openings and strategies for
networking and getting hired.
Best of luck!

On 12/5/13, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting with
>
> the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
> specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center that
>
> does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I wasted
>
> my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
> anyone to hire me.
> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in my
>
> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met me.
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given up.
>
> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From louvins at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 23:05:36 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:05:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBr8px21UkN5iEvZhaRAffoT4zxQ2v+r=ZoGL9HvTToUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
	<CALAYQJBr8px21UkN5iEvZhaRAffoT4zxQ2v+r=ZoGL9HvTToUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9tzH6E2+aV6iaKBvrT7n0UP0A=EGsw0o0AFKuxaD78kmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Milissa.  What that man told you was completely wrong.  Why
couldn't a blind person be a day care worker.  I know you could do it
if you have the skills and the desire and dedication to do it.  My mom
used to be a licensed babysiter, and she taught me a few things about
babies.  I haven't changed diapers yet, but I know how to hold babies,
and have given bottles a couple of times.  Babies and little ones are
so cute.  You know what you can do, so don't let this guy push you
around.

On 12/5/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Melissa,
>
> It continues to baffle me why anybody would become a job developer for
> people with disabilities if they don't believe in the capacities we
> have to do the jobs we want to do. His comments directly contradict
> the fact that many blind people become successful day care workers and
> teachers.
> I would suggest not having any further contact with this man as I
> doubt there is much he could do to help you. You could try asking for
> a different job developer, but I'm not sure how much having a job
> developer at all is really worthwhile. It might be better to work with
> your school's career services office, or anybody you know in the
> childcare field, to learn about job openings and strategies for
> networking and getting hired.
> Best of luck!
>
> On 12/5/13, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
>> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
>> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
>> with
>>
>> the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
>> specialest called me.
>> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center
>> that
>>
>> does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I
>> wasted
>>
>> my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
>> anyone to hire me.
>> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in
>> my
>>
>> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met
>> me.
>> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
>> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given
>> up.
>>
>> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
>> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
>> education and not anger.
>> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
>> off to finish with school forever.
>> Best,
>> Melissa Green and Pj
>> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 23:08:59 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:08:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
Message-ID: <2C17AAC7CAD347BEBDE26B555C3D58D3@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Melissa,
I am sorry that the job specialist talked down to you like that. There are 
plenty of blind people that work with sighted children in schools, daycares, 
and other places, and this job specialist should do some research before 
flat out telling you that you will not be hired. There are even several news 
articles on the Internet from newspapers detailing how well some blind 
teachers are doing working with sighted children. I wonder if maybe you 
could take some of these articles and show them to him. There are also some 
articles on the Career Connect database too, but you can probably find them 
by doing a search. Also, maybe someone in the NFB that works with children 
can talk with you and then show this job specialist that he is wrong in his 
thinking.
I hope everything works out for you and that the VR personnel won't try to 
get in the way of your career goals.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: melissa Green
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:47 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.

Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting with
the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
specialest called me.
He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center that
does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I wasted
my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
anyone to hire me.
this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in my
corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met me.
Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given up.
But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
  I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
education and not anger.
thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
off to finish with school forever.
Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From sgermano at asu.edu  Fri Dec  6 00:15:06 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:15:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdvquODfyeeFKF0Yo_qTh2FxgZQYERLPNXCoZQdTbNG1w@mail.gmail.com>

Don't be discouraged. I am not totally blind but I am legally blind and I
was a head teach at 2 Montessori School, Co-Teacher at one Montessori
school and interned for a year at another Montessori school. I worked in
primary which is 3-6 year olds. When working with children there are always
assistants or co-teacher because they have to have a certain adult to child
ratio. So even though Montessori works best with 28-32 children and one
teacher, I still had ot have two assistants to meet state law. I had some
concerns would I know if something happened across the playground, would I
notice if I child had an allergic reaction fro example I cannot tell if
someones skin is red or they are pale. But in reality playground was not my
responsibility as head teacher. Yes, I was out there but so were two
assistants.

I don't understand why they hire the people they do to be rehab counselors.
Keep your head up and follow your dreams of what you want as a career.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:47 PM, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
> with
> the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
> specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center that
> does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I
> wasted
> my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
> anyone to hire me.
> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in my
> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met me.
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given up.
> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From NMPBRAT at aol.com  Fri Dec  6 00:56:38 2013
From: NMPBRAT at aol.com (NMPBRAT at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:56:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
Message-ID: <7f1eb.260f0923.3fd27ac6@aol.com>

Hi Melissa,
I'm sorry that you had such an unfortunate experience but  don't let it get 
you down or your hopes up.  It can be done.  I too  had a similar 
experience with a rehab counselor who told me when I stated I  wanted to teach, he 
said it was not considered a "blindness friendly field" and  that I needed to 
look at other careers.  I essentially told him he was  wrong and that his 
job was to assist me in whatever area I wanted to  pursue.  I told him that I 
didn't want to have a job that I hated, simply  because it was "blindness 
friendly".   He didn't like what I had to  say....and still didn't have a 
great attitude....but he was forced to work with  me...that is, until I had the 
fortunate experience of being moved to a  different rehab counselor who was 
totally supportive of what I wanted to  do.  
Fast forward....my degree is in Special Ed. but I have worked  and taught 
both special ed. and regular ed. students over the years.  I am  currently in 
my 12th year of teaching in the public schools.   I  actually got my 
teaching job the following school year after I  graduated.  Yes, I was fortunate.  
I don't want to say it  was easy...as I did quite a few interviews.....but 
it wasn't impossible  either.  Yes, there were people I interviewed with 
that I could tell just  by how they acted that they weren't too keen on a bind 
teacher.  However,  that wasn't the case in every scenario.  In fact, I 
actually turned down 2  teaching jobs before I accepted the third one (for 
various reasons).  I  also have met other blind teachers who have also had 
successful  careers.   And as far as finding a job....I know plenty of totally  
able-bodied, well-educated people who have spent many years searching and  
interviewing and can't get a teaching job.  So blind teachers or child care  
workers are not the only ones who struggle sometimes to find a job.  The  
success is more based upon other factors like education level, other employment  
experience or volunteer experience (both of which helped me), the need for  
teachers in general in the area where you apply for jobs,  etc.  
I think someone else suggested that you research articles  about blind 
individuals in the teaching field....and I think that was an  excellent idea.  
You may just have to educate this individual about  how possible it is.  
It is truly unfortunate that people in these positions have  the negative 
attitudes about what is possible for individuals with disabilities  to be 
successful at....I never have quite understood how or why they  end up in these 
positions.  
Just remember.....it's YOUR future.....and you need to make  sure to 
advocate for yourself and what you want your future to be.  I have  never 
regretted once what I said to the counselor I  had.  Although it isn't possible 
because he is retired....I have often  wished I could go back and say to him 
"Look at me  now!"  
Don't give up.  It can be discouraging...I totally  understand....but do 
not let it stop you!
Best wishes,
Nicole  
 
 
In a message dated 12/5/2013 5:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
lissa1531 at gmail.com writes:

Took a  napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still  
bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
I was very  encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting 
with 
the  devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job  
specialest called me.
He basically told me that if I was hired by a  school or daycare center 
that 
does not serve blind children that I will  not find a job.  And that I 
wasted 
my time and rehab's money.   He also said that it will be a liability for 
anyone to hire me.
this is  coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in 
my  
corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even  met me. 
Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on  finishing school.
I have worked very hard and been through so much  hell.  I haven't given 
up. 
But But I want to give up and scream for a  while .
I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during  our meeting.
But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with  dignety and 
education and not anger.
thank you for reading and letting  me vent and share.
off to finish with school forever.
Best,
Melissa  Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.  
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing  list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 00:58:00 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:58:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avdvquODfyeeFKF0Yo_qTh2FxgZQYERLPNXCoZQdTbNG1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
	<CAF=_avdvquODfyeeFKF0Yo_qTh2FxgZQYERLPNXCoZQdTbNG1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKg_hhbaHVEsLkBV4GV1+Wk0BV160HCHVWMr0hpNaq6hg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Melissa,

So sorry this happened to you...  The thing that entertains me the
most is that he thinks it would be easier or somehow more acceptable
for you to work taking care of blind kids.  You will still have to
apply alternative techniques when working with blind kids.  They run
around and get into things just the same as sighted kids do.  Makes me
wonder...  I agree with Arielle here.  Find someone else to work with
you on finding a job.

On 12/5/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> Don't be discouraged. I am not totally blind but I am legally blind and I
> was a head teach at 2 Montessori School, Co-Teacher at one Montessori
> school and interned for a year at another Montessori school. I worked in
> primary which is 3-6 year olds. When working with children there are always
> assistants or co-teacher because they have to have a certain adult to child
> ratio. So even though Montessori works best with 28-32 children and one
> teacher, I still had ot have two assistants to meet state law. I had some
> concerns would I know if something happened across the playground, would I
> notice if I child had an allergic reaction fro example I cannot tell if
> someones skin is red or they are pale. But in reality playground was not my
> responsibility as head teacher. Yes, I was out there but so were two
> assistants.
>
> I don't understand why they hire the people they do to be rehab counselors.
> Keep your head up and follow your dreams of what you want as a career.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:47 PM, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
>> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
>> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
>> with
>> the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
>> specialest called me.
>> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center
>> that
>> does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I
>> wasted
>> my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
>> anyone to hire me.
>> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in
>> my
>> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met
>> me.
>> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
>> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given
>> up.
>> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
>> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
>> education and not anger.
>> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
>> off to finish with school forever.
>> Best,
>> Melissa Green and Pj
>> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 01:00:47 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 18:00:47 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <7f1eb.260f0923.3fd27ac6@aol.com>
References: <7f1eb.260f0923.3fd27ac6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAF0GQ9jYwmPSsyYF+hxHpff2+5EDc0Y39SxAD2T=puDg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm only being a little sarcastic when I suggest telling this man that
he must have wasted his time and money going into the rehab profession
when he is clearly not cut out for the job!

Arielle

On 12/5/13, NMPBRAT at aol.com <NMPBRAT at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Melissa,
> I'm sorry that you had such an unfortunate experience but  don't let it get
>
> you down or your hopes up.  It can be done.  I too  had a similar
> experience with a rehab counselor who told me when I stated I  wanted to
> teach, he
> said it was not considered a "blindness friendly field" and  that I needed
> to
> look at other careers.  I essentially told him he was  wrong and that his
> job was to assist me in whatever area I wanted to  pursue.  I told him that
> I
> didn't want to have a job that I hated, simply  because it was "blindness
> friendly".   He didn't like what I had to  say....and still didn't have a
> great attitude....but he was forced to work with  me...that is, until I had
> the
> fortunate experience of being moved to a  different rehab counselor who was
>
> totally supportive of what I wanted to  do.
> Fast forward....my degree is in Special Ed. but I have worked  and taught
> both special ed. and regular ed. students over the years.  I am  currently
> in
> my 12th year of teaching in the public schools.   I  actually got my
> teaching job the following school year after I  graduated.  Yes, I was
> fortunate.
> I don't want to say it  was easy...as I did quite a few interviews.....but
> it wasn't impossible  either.  Yes, there were people I interviewed with
> that I could tell just  by how they acted that they weren't too keen on a
> bind
> teacher.  However,  that wasn't the case in every scenario.  In fact, I
> actually turned down 2  teaching jobs before I accepted the third one (for
> various reasons).  I  also have met other blind teachers who have also had
> successful  careers.   And as far as finding a job....I know plenty of
> totally
> able-bodied, well-educated people who have spent many years searching and
> interviewing and can't get a teaching job.  So blind teachers or child care
>
> workers are not the only ones who struggle sometimes to find a job.  The
> success is more based upon other factors like education level, other
> employment
> experience or volunteer experience (both of which helped me), the need for
>
> teachers in general in the area where you apply for jobs,  etc.
> I think someone else suggested that you research articles  about blind
> individuals in the teaching field....and I think that was an  excellent
> idea.
> You may just have to educate this individual about  how possible it is.
> It is truly unfortunate that people in these positions have  the negative
> attitudes about what is possible for individuals with disabilities  to be
> successful at....I never have quite understood how or why they  end up in
> these
> positions.
> Just remember.....it's YOUR future.....and you need to make  sure to
> advocate for yourself and what you want your future to be.  I have  never
> regretted once what I said to the counselor I  had.  Although it isn't
> possible
> because he is retired....I have often  wished I could go back and say to him
>
> "Look at me  now!"
> Don't give up.  It can be discouraging...I totally  understand....but do
> not let it stop you!
> Best wishes,
> Nicole
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2013 5:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> lissa1531 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Took a  napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very  encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
> with
> the  devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
> specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a  school or daycare center
> that
> does not serve blind children that I will  not find a job.  And that I
> wasted
> my time and rehab's money.   He also said that it will be a liability for
> anyone to hire me.
> this is  coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in
> my
> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even  met me.
>
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on  finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much  hell.  I haven't given
> up.
> But But I want to give up and scream for a  while .
> I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during  our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with  dignety and
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting  me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa  Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing  list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 01:48:34 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:48:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello friends,

I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we
are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do
other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because
I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but
because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type
situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I
can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get
it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't
mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful
and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to
help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't
want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not
welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things,
and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of what
we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of all of
it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on a stage
without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy lifting and
cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others, especially when
they believe it would simply be easier for them to do the work.

Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled it?


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 01:56:40 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 20:56:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avdvquODfyeeFKF0Yo_qTh2FxgZQYERLPNXCoZQdTbNG1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
	<CAF=_avdvquODfyeeFKF0Yo_qTh2FxgZQYERLPNXCoZQdTbNG1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007001cef226$689271f0$39b755d0$@gmail.com>

The American Foundation of the Blind has a career connect page that may have
a teacher on it.  Outside of that, Kim Agulara is a teacher, or at least she
was.  I think she resides in Texas, but I am not sure. She is witth the NFB.
She taught second grade.  I don't know how to spell her name correctly, but
I hope I got close.  It can be done.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:15 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.

Don't be discouraged. I am not totally blind but I am legally blind and I
was a head teach at 2 Montessori School, Co-Teacher at one Montessori school
and interned for a year at another Montessori school. I worked in primary
which is 3-6 year olds. When working with children there are always
assistants or co-teacher because they have to have a certain adult to child
ratio. So even though Montessori works best with 28-32 children and one
teacher, I still had ot have two assistants to meet state law. I had some
concerns would I know if something happened across the playground, would I
notice if I child had an allergic reaction fro example I cannot tell if
someones skin is red or they are pale. But in reality playground was not my
responsibility as head teacher. Yes, I was out there but so were two
assistants.

I don't understand why they hire the people they do to be rehab counselors.
Keep your head up and follow your dreams of what you want as a career.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:47 PM, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still 
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my 
> meeting with the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this 
> morning the job specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center 
> that does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And 
> that I wasted my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be 
> a liability for anyone to hire me.
> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be 
> in my corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even
met me.
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given
up.
> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and 
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 02:16:01 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:16:01 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
References: <DAC254BF444C4551A376843F15B66CAE@HP30910210001>
	<CALAYQJBr8px21UkN5iEvZhaRAffoT4zxQ2v+r=ZoGL9HvTToUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A7457BA1EF640F9A852E35E85ED524B@HP30910210001>

thank you arielle.
I have already decided to do the majority of this on my own.
I will go to the meeting though.
By then I won't be as mad .

Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.


Hi Melissa,

It continues to baffle me why anybody would become a job developer for
people with disabilities if they don't believe in the capacities we
have to do the jobs we want to do. His comments directly contradict
the fact that many blind people become successful day care workers and
teachers.
I would suggest not having any further contact with this man as I
doubt there is much he could do to help you. You could try asking for
a different job developer, but I'm not sure how much having a job
developer at all is really worthwhile. It might be better to work with
your school's career services office, or anybody you know in the
childcare field, to learn about job openings and strategies for
networking and getting hired.
Best of luck!

On 12/5/13, melissa Green <lissa1531 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Took a napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting 
> with
>
> the devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
> specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a school or daycare center 
> that
>
> does not serve blind children that I will not find a job.  And that I 
> wasted
>
> my time and rehab's money.  He also said that it will be a liability for
> anyone to hire me.
> this is coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in 
> my
>
> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even met me.
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much hell.  I haven't given 
> up.
>
> But But I want to give up and scream for a while .
>   I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with dignety and
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com



From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 02:16:55 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:16:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
References: <7f1eb.260f0923.3fd27ac6@aol.com>
	<CALAYQJAF0GQ9jYwmPSsyYF+hxHpff2+5EDc0Y39SxAD2T=puDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D860557F07B045D3A3E15FE1D4BAFCE0@HP30910210001>

You are so right.
I am looking forward to wednesday afternoon.

Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.


I'm only being a little sarcastic when I suggest telling this man that
he must have wasted his time and money going into the rehab profession
when he is clearly not cut out for the job!

Arielle

On 12/5/13, NMPBRAT at aol.com <NMPBRAT at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Melissa,
> I'm sorry that you had such an unfortunate experience but  don't let it 
> get
>
> you down or your hopes up.  It can be done.  I too  had a similar
> experience with a rehab counselor who told me when I stated I  wanted to
> teach, he
> said it was not considered a "blindness friendly field" and  that I needed
> to
> look at other careers.  I essentially told him he was  wrong and that his
> job was to assist me in whatever area I wanted to  pursue.  I told him 
> that
> I
> didn't want to have a job that I hated, simply  because it was "blindness
> friendly".   He didn't like what I had to  say....and still didn't have a
> great attitude....but he was forced to work with  me...that is, until I 
> had
> the
> fortunate experience of being moved to a  different rehab counselor who 
> was
>
> totally supportive of what I wanted to  do.
> Fast forward....my degree is in Special Ed. but I have worked  and taught
> both special ed. and regular ed. students over the years.  I am  currently
> in
> my 12th year of teaching in the public schools.   I  actually got my
> teaching job the following school year after I  graduated.  Yes, I was
> fortunate.
> I don't want to say it  was easy...as I did quite a few interviews.....but
> it wasn't impossible  either.  Yes, there were people I interviewed with
> that I could tell just  by how they acted that they weren't too keen on a
> bind
> teacher.  However,  that wasn't the case in every scenario.  In fact, I
> actually turned down 2  teaching jobs before I accepted the third one (for
> various reasons).  I  also have met other blind teachers who have also had
> successful  careers.   And as far as finding a job....I know plenty of
> totally
> able-bodied, well-educated people who have spent many years searching and
> interviewing and can't get a teaching job.  So blind teachers or child 
> care
>
> workers are not the only ones who struggle sometimes to find a job.  The
> success is more based upon other factors like education level, other
> employment
> experience or volunteer experience (both of which helped me), the need for
>
> teachers in general in the area where you apply for jobs,  etc.
> I think someone else suggested that you research articles  about blind
> individuals in the teaching field....and I think that was an  excellent
> idea.
> You may just have to educate this individual about  how possible it is.
> It is truly unfortunate that people in these positions have  the negative
> attitudes about what is possible for individuals with disabilities  to be
> successful at....I never have quite understood how or why they  end up in
> these
> positions.
> Just remember.....it's YOUR future.....and you need to make  sure to
> advocate for yourself and what you want your future to be.  I have  never
> regretted once what I said to the counselor I  had.  Although it isn't
> possible
> because he is retired....I have often  wished I could go back and say to 
> him
>
> "Look at me  now!"
> Don't give up.  It can be discouraging...I totally  understand....but do
> not let it stop you!
> Best wishes,
> Nicole
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2013 5:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> lissa1531 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Took a  napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
> bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
> I was very  encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
> with
> the  devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
> specialest called me.
> He basically told me that if I was hired by a  school or daycare center
> that
> does not serve blind children that I will  not find a job.  And that I
> wasted
> my time and rehab's money.   He also said that it will be a liability for
> anyone to hire me.
> this is  coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in
> my
> corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even  met 
> me.
>
> Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on  finishing school.
> I have worked very hard and been through so much  hell.  I haven't given
> up.
> But But I want to give up and scream for a  while .
> I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during  our meeting.
> But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with  dignety and
> education and not anger.
> thank you for reading and letting  me vent and share.
> off to finish with school forever.
> Best,
> Melissa  Green and Pj
> I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing  list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 06:15:22 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 22:15:22 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>

I Julie,
This is a very good question.
I have dealt with similar situations and I've started by doing what you have done in talking with a supervisor, subordinate, instructor or what have you. 
Quite a bit of times for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to work out quite like I would want it to.
So I have tried the method of either making a friend or finding a friend and partnering up with them ahead of time.
This works when you can do it because the person that you are working with has helped completing the task, you're not left alone, and the job gets done 
Obviously you would do well to lift only what is appropriate free you (don't over exert yourself). And work collaboratively with your partner.  You are just as vital as anyone else in this effort because you can do the power and your partner can be the eyes.
I hope that this helps.
  Darian


This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello friends,
> 
> I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we
> are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do
> other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because
> I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but
> because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type
> situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I
> can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get
> it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't
> mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful
> and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to
> help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't
> want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not
> welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things,
> and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of what
> we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of all of
> it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on a stage
> without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy lifting and
> cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others, especially when
> they believe it would simply be easier for them to do the work.
> 
> Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled it?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 15:09:41 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:09:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
In-Reply-To: <65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Darian,

I have done this.  When I am able to jump on something fast enough
with one of my friends in the class, she doesn't mind me helping.  But
she doesn't understand why it's so important to me.

I did exactly that.  We had a settee(I don't know if that's how you
spell it) to carry, and it took two people.  I took the one end and
let her lead because she can see.  I thought this was a perfect
arrangement.  But my professor actually told me I wasn't allowed to
help with this.  I don't have unrealistic expectations.  I don't want
to hang lights(though honestly, going up on a catwalk would be cool).
And I don't want to lift anything down stairs or do anything else that
might be dangerous because I can't use dog or cane while doing it.
But I would like the others to see me as an equal helping hand.

On 12/6/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I Julie,
> This is a very good question.
> I have dealt with similar situations and I've started by doing what you have
> done in talking with a supervisor, subordinate, instructor or what have you.
>
> Quite a bit of times for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to work out quite
> like I would want it to.
> So I have tried the method of either making a friend or finding a friend and
> partnering up with them ahead of time.
> This works when you can do it because the person that you are working with
> has helped completing the task, you're not left alone, and the job gets done
>
> Obviously you would do well to lift only what is appropriate free you (don't
> over exert yourself). And work collaboratively with your partner.  You are
> just as vital as anyone else in this effort because you can do the power and
> your partner can be the eyes.
> I hope that this helps.
>   Darian
>
>
> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>
>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello friends,
>>
>> I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we
>> are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do
>> other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because
>> I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but
>> because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type
>> situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I
>> can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get
>> it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't
>> mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful
>> and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to
>> help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't
>> want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not
>> welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things,
>> and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of what
>> we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of all of
>> it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on a stage
>> without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy lifting and
>> cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others, especially when
>> they believe it would simply be easier for them to do the work.
>>
>> Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled it?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 15:34:31 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 10:34:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>

Maybe write her a letter where she can read it and really look at it right
there in front of her.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:10 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations

Hi Darian,

I have done this.  When I am able to jump on something fast enough with one
of my friends in the class, she doesn't mind me helping.  But she doesn't
understand why it's so important to me.

I did exactly that.  We had a settee(I don't know if that's how you spell
it) to carry, and it took two people.  I took the one end and let her lead
because she can see.  I thought this was a perfect arrangement.  But my
professor actually told me I wasn't allowed to help with this.  I don't have
unrealistic expectations.  I don't want to hang lights(though honestly,
going up on a catwalk would be cool).
And I don't want to lift anything down stairs or do anything else that might
be dangerous because I can't use dog or cane while doing it.
But I would like the others to see me as an equal helping hand.

On 12/6/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I Julie,
> This is a very good question.
> I have dealt with similar situations and I've started by doing what 
> you have done in talking with a supervisor, subordinate, instructor or
what have you.
>
> Quite a bit of times for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to work out 
> quite like I would want it to.
> So I have tried the method of either making a friend or finding a 
> friend and partnering up with them ahead of time.
> This works when you can do it because the person that you are working 
> with has helped completing the task, you're not left alone, and the 
> job gets done
>
> Obviously you would do well to lift only what is appropriate free you 
> (don't over exert yourself). And work collaboratively with your 
> partner.  You are just as vital as anyone else in this effort because 
> you can do the power and your partner can be the eyes.
> I hope that this helps.
>   Darian
>
>
> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>
>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello friends,
>>
>> I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we 
>> are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do 
>> other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because 
>> I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but 
>> because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type 
>> situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I 
>> can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get 
>> it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't 
>> mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful 
>> and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to 
>> help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't 
>> want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not 
>> welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things, 
>> and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of 
>> what we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of 
>> all of it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on 
>> a stage without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy 
>> lifting and cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others, 
>> especially when they believe it would simply be easier for them to do the
work.
>>
>> Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled it?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National 
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri 
>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the 
>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only 
>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have 
>> eternal life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail
>> .com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.
> com
>


--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 3:16

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 18:12:14 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 12:12:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
In-Reply-To: <00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julie,

I know that situations like an op shop show (yes, we called it op shop
in college) can be, as you called it, organized chaeos and I know that
often people think it is "easier" for us blind people to sit there and
look pretty while everyone else does all the heavy lifting.  Now, I
will say from experience that moving stuff around in all the chaos of
a performance or rehearsal can be a bit tedious since everyone is kind
of going every which way with a bunch of heavy objects and it can get
a bit disorienting, especially when you're trying to ask, "Excuse me,
where can I put this prop?" and you've got six different people
telling you six different places where that prop or costume piece
should or could go.  The best thing I've found is to find one or two
sighted people with whom you are friendly in your op shop class and
kind of follow them to wherever they are going.  While you're with
them, ask casually how you might help or even just bend down and pick
something up and ask where it should go.  Once you've got whatever it
is in your hand, they can't really say that it would be easier for
them to hold it since, well, you're already holding it and showing
them that you can do it.  In other words, don't tell them that you can
do it, show them you can do it.  People believe more what they see and
less what they hear.  Hope this helps.

Ryan

On 12/6/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe write her a letter where she can read it and really look at it right
> there in front of her.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie
> McGinnity
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
>
> Hi Darian,
>
> I have done this.  When I am able to jump on something fast enough with one
> of my friends in the class, she doesn't mind me helping.  But she doesn't
> understand why it's so important to me.
>
> I did exactly that.  We had a settee(I don't know if that's how you spell
> it) to carry, and it took two people.  I took the one end and let her lead
> because she can see.  I thought this was a perfect arrangement.  But my
> professor actually told me I wasn't allowed to help with this.  I don't
> have
> unrealistic expectations.  I don't want to hang lights(though honestly,
> going up on a catwalk would be cool).
> And I don't want to lift anything down stairs or do anything else that
> might
> be dangerous because I can't use dog or cane while doing it.
> But I would like the others to see me as an equal helping hand.
>
> On 12/6/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I Julie,
>> This is a very good question.
>> I have dealt with similar situations and I've started by doing what
>> you have done in talking with a supervisor, subordinate, instructor or
> what have you.
>>
>> Quite a bit of times for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to work out
>> quite like I would want it to.
>> So I have tried the method of either making a friend or finding a
>> friend and partnering up with them ahead of time.
>> This works when you can do it because the person that you are working
>> with has helped completing the task, you're not left alone, and the
>> job gets done
>>
>> Obviously you would do well to lift only what is appropriate free you
>> (don't over exert yourself). And work collaboratively with your
>> partner.  You are just as vital as anyone else in this effort because
>> you can do the power and your partner can be the eyes.
>> I hope that this helps.
>>   Darian
>>
>>
>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>
>>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello friends,
>>>
>>> I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we
>>> are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do
>>> other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because
>>> I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but
>>> because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type
>>> situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I
>>> can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get
>>> it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't
>>> mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful
>>> and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to
>>> help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't
>>> want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not
>>> welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things,
>>> and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of
>>> what we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of
>>> all of it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on
>>> a stage without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy
>>> lifting and cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others,
>>> especially when they believe it would simply be easier for them to do
>>> the
> work.
>>>
>>> Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled
>>> it?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri
>>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the
>>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only
>>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>>> eternal life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail
>>> .com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.
>> com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For
> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 18:19:40 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 11:19:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Julie,

Carrying something with a friend guiding sounds perfectly appropriate,
safe and efficient. Your professor's resistance is perplexing
especially  since you've already done it and I assume neither you nor
your friend got hurt. If your professor continues to insist you can't
do anything except call  cues, it might be worth either writing a
letter, or discussing in office hours. Explain that you want to be
considered an equal member of the group and part of that means helping
with tasks as you are able, and that you have shown you are able to
handle lifting tasks when you pair up with someone. If she continues
to be stubborn, you may want to think about whether it is really
worthwhile to come to class on the days when these things are
happening if she is so dead-set on not including you.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/6/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Julie,
>
> I know that situations like an op shop show (yes, we called it op shop
> in college) can be, as you called it, organized chaeos and I know that
> often people think it is "easier" for us blind people to sit there and
> look pretty while everyone else does all the heavy lifting.  Now, I
> will say from experience that moving stuff around in all the chaos of
> a performance or rehearsal can be a bit tedious since everyone is kind
> of going every which way with a bunch of heavy objects and it can get
> a bit disorienting, especially when you're trying to ask, "Excuse me,
> where can I put this prop?" and you've got six different people
> telling you six different places where that prop or costume piece
> should or could go.  The best thing I've found is to find one or two
> sighted people with whom you are friendly in your op shop class and
> kind of follow them to wherever they are going.  While you're with
> them, ask casually how you might help or even just bend down and pick
> something up and ask where it should go.  Once you've got whatever it
> is in your hand, they can't really say that it would be easier for
> them to hold it since, well, you're already holding it and showing
> them that you can do it.  In other words, don't tell them that you can
> do it, show them you can do it.  People believe more what they see and
> less what they hear.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/6/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Maybe write her a letter where she can read it and really look at it
>> right
>> there in front of her.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie
>> McGinnity
>> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:10 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Helping the group in organized chaos situations
>>
>> Hi Darian,
>>
>> I have done this.  When I am able to jump on something fast enough with
>> one
>> of my friends in the class, she doesn't mind me helping.  But she doesn't
>> understand why it's so important to me.
>>
>> I did exactly that.  We had a settee(I don't know if that's how you spell
>> it) to carry, and it took two people.  I took the one end and let her
>> lead
>> because she can see.  I thought this was a perfect arrangement.  But my
>> professor actually told me I wasn't allowed to help with this.  I don't
>> have
>> unrealistic expectations.  I don't want to hang lights(though honestly,
>> going up on a catwalk would be cool).
>> And I don't want to lift anything down stairs or do anything else that
>> might
>> be dangerous because I can't use dog or cane while doing it.
>> But I would like the others to see me as an equal helping hand.
>>
>> On 12/6/13, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I Julie,
>>> This is a very good question.
>>> I have dealt with similar situations and I've started by doing what
>>> you have done in talking with a supervisor, subordinate, instructor or
>> what have you.
>>>
>>> Quite a bit of times for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to work out
>>> quite like I would want it to.
>>> So I have tried the method of either making a friend or finding a
>>> friend and partnering up with them ahead of time.
>>> This works when you can do it because the person that you are working
>>> with has helped completing the task, you're not left alone, and the
>>> job gets done
>>>
>>> Obviously you would do well to lift only what is appropriate free you
>>> (don't over exert yourself). And work collaboratively with your
>>> partner.  You are just as vital as anyone else in this effort because
>>> you can do the power and your partner can be the eyes.
>>> I hope that this helps.
>>>   Darian
>>>
>>>
>>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>>>
>>>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello friends,
>>>>
>>>> I know...  Weird subject line...  But in my opera workshop class, we
>>>> are expected to help clean, organize costumes and set pieces, and do
>>>> other physical type tasks.  I am no good at these things, not because
>>>> I don't want to help or can't lift, clean, or help in other ways, but
>>>> because I cannot see what needs doing in an organized chaos type
>>>> situation.  I hate being left out of things, especially when I know I
>>>> can help just as much as everyone else.  My professor doesn't get
>>>> it...  She doesn't think it's safe for me to lift things and doesn't
>>>> mind me sitting by while others do all the work.  But I feel aweful
>>>> and find myself dreading work days and clean-up times.  I want to
>>>> help, but I don't know how to throw myself in.  Most of all, I don't
>>>> want to try to help with something, just to be told that I'm not
>>>> welcome. I have tried to talk with my professor about these things,
>>>> and she wants to give me jobs like helping call cues, but most of
>>>> what we do is actually physical work, and I'd still be left out of
>>>> all of it. I feel like if I can navigate uneven and high platforms on
>>>> a stage without falling to my death, I can handle a little heavy
>>>> lifting and cleaning.  But I don't know how to convince others,
>>>> especially when they believe it would simply be easier for them to do
>>>> the
>> work.
>>>>
>>>> Have any of you dealt with a similar situation?  How have you handled
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri
>>>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the
>>>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only
>>>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>>>> eternal life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.
>>> com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation
>> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
>> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For
>> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
>> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  6 20:17:10 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:17:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com><65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com><CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com><00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com><CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>

Hello All,

Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from 
people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge 
difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as being 
two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that anyone 
who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as 
there are really no distinctions between these two things.

it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the 
more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even though 
they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really 
asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind. Personally, 
I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such personal 
information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see again.

I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no longer 
wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am 
also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel as 
though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much. But 
it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who believe that 
it does really matter.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of 
questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how do 
you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any 
thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Elizabeth 



From sgermano at asu.edu  Fri Dec  6 20:28:45 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 13:28:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>

I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
someone who is totally blind.

 I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
person has a better understanding.

If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
legally blind then they understand my need to be close.

I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
obvious I have a lot of useful vision.


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as being
> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that anyone
> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>
> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even though
> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
> again.
>
> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no longer
> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel as
> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who believe
> that it does really matter.
>
> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how do
> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 20:41:00 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 13:41:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB1vTrwFyxYk5K1EBK3E=2MoEGVsEnA9A=P8DHZtv4u7g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I think legally blind is a legal or technical definition whereas blind
is more of a sociocultural or functional definition. Anyone with
vision worse than 20/200 is legally blind regardless of the techniques
they use to accomplish tasks. Anyone who uses blindness techniques to
do things either by choice or necessity is blind. So two people with
partial sight could both be legally blind, but if one uses Braille and
the other uses print, the one who uses Braille is more likely to meet
the "blind" definition.

Arielle

On 12/6/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
> someone who is totally blind.
>
>  I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
> person has a better understanding.
>
> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>
> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as
>> being
>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that
>> anyone
>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>
>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even
>> though
>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>> again.
>>
>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no
>> longer
>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel
>> as
>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who
>> believe
>> that it does really matter.
>>
>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how
>> do
>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 20:56:03 2013
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:56:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJB1vTrwFyxYk5K1EBK3E=2MoEGVsEnA9A=P8DHZtv4u7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJB1vTrwFyxYk5K1EBK3E=2MoEGVsEnA9A=P8DHZtv4u7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj7sbopyXbi6wYCnvjFPbNwYzAj1Uw7CBKQp7-YAH+3N8g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Arielle is correct about the 20/200 definition of blindness. I found
this information listed below online.


Legal blindness occurs when a person has central visual acuity (vision
that allows a person to see straight ahead of them) of 20/200 or less
in his or her better eye with correction. With 20/200 visual acuity, a
person can see at 20 feet, what a person with 20/20 vision sees at 200
feet.

In determining legal blindness, visual field (the part of a person's
vision that enables them to see what is happening to the side of them)
is also considered. A visual field of 20 degrees or less is considered
to be legally blind.

Sincerely,
Nathan


On 12/6/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think legally blind is a legal or technical definition whereas blind
> is more of a sociocultural or functional definition. Anyone with
> vision worse than 20/200 is legally blind regardless of the techniques
> they use to accomplish tasks. Anyone who uses blindness techniques to
> do things either by choice or necessity is blind. So two people with
> partial sight could both be legally blind, but if one uses Braille and
> the other uses print, the one who uses Braille is more likely to meet
> the "blind" definition.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 12/6/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
>> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
>> someone who is totally blind.
>>
>>  I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so
>> the
>> person has a better understanding.
>>
>> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
>> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
>> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>>
>> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
>> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
>> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some
>>> huge
>>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as
>>> being
>>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that
>>> anyone
>>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind
>>> as
>>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>>
>>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe
>>> the
>>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even
>>> though
>>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>>> again.
>>>
>>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no
>>> longer
>>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I
>>> am
>>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel
>>> as
>>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who
>>> believe
>>> that it does really matter.
>>>
>>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how
>>> do
>>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  6 21:10:57 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 16:10:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com><65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com><CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com><00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com><CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com><COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>

So then are you suggesting that I try to explain this to every stranger on 
the street who asks me about how much I can see, or whether or not I am 
legally blind or blind, when it is really none of their business in the 
first place? Honestly, it just seems as though everyone who has answered 
this question so far has totally missed the whole point of my email.

Elizabeth

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Suzanne Germano" <sgermano at asu.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:28 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

> I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
> someone who is totally blind.
>
> I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
> person has a better understanding.
>
> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>
> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke 
> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as 
>> being
>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that 
>> anyone
>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>
>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even 
>> though
>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>> again.
>>
>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no 
>> longer
>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel 
>> as
>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who 
>> believe
>> that it does really matter.
>>
>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how 
>> do
>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 21:19:37 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 14:19:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB5Jsv+f6RKD2Mik4v2YLXy=qs0K_wZzdA1OpGYm2R-zQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think you can tell people as much or as little as you want depending
on your personal comfort with the topic and your feelings about
privacy. For me, though I don't like people assuming I can see if I do
something well, I also understand people are usually uninformed and it
doesn't hurt to answer their questions. I will usually offer a brief
explanation of what I am able to see (which isn't much) and emphasize
that most things I do without using my vision. I'm generally pretty
open about my personal life, though, and I recognize some of us feel
more private about such topics.
Arielle

On 12/6/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> So then are you suggesting that I try to explain this to every stranger on
> the street who asks me about how much I can see, or whether or not I am
> legally blind or blind, when it is really none of their business in the
> first place? Honestly, it just seems as though everyone who has answered
> this question so far has totally missed the whole point of my email.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Suzanne Germano" <sgermano at asu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:28 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>
>> I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
>> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
>> someone who is totally blind.
>>
>> I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
>> person has a better understanding.
>>
>> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
>> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
>> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>>
>> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
>> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
>> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some
>>> huge
>>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as
>>> being
>>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that
>>> anyone
>>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind
>>> as
>>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>>
>>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe
>>> the
>>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even
>>> though
>>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>>> again.
>>>
>>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no
>>> longer
>>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I
>>> am
>>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel
>>>
>>> as
>>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who
>>> believe
>>> that it does really matter.
>>>
>>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how
>>>
>>> do
>>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Fri Dec  6 21:41:42 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 16:41:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <497FBA75-A9AD-43D3-B0F2-74BAFA2783AE@fuse.net>

I quite honestly tell people I am visually impaired. This more or less ends all questions about that topic.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 6, 2013, at 4:10 PM, "Elizabeth Mohnke" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So then are you suggesting that I try to explain this to every stranger on the street who asks me about how much I can see, or whether or not I am legally blind or blind, when it is really none of their business in the first place? Honestly, it just seems as though everyone who has answered this question so far has totally missed the whole point of my email.
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Suzanne Germano" <sgermano at asu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:28 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
> 
>> I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
>> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
>> someone who is totally blind.
>> 
>> I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
>> person has a better understanding.
>> 
>> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
>> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
>> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>> 
>> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
>> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
>> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
>>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as being
>>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that anyone
>>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
>>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>> 
>>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
>>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even though
>>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>>> again.
>>> 
>>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no longer
>>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
>>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel as
>>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who believe
>>> that it does really matter.
>>> 
>>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how do
>>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From sgermano at asu.edu  Fri Dec  6 21:45:32 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 14:45:32 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc-K7hV4dt2adFcgO37eTY+qUDMc9NZkWVAF6AC47jT=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS27B87FD5D4780A5D3A13A5BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcCfR++KpwYnjPetwzL=zy+kq5-tf_1=fOpmrOcM4qNkg@mail.gmail.com>

No of course not every stranger. Why are strangers asking what people can
see? But if someone asks and I feel they are genuine in there interest. I
do try to make it a learning experience so people understand not all
visions problems are correctable. Or so they understand there is a wide
range of what people can see who are classified as legally blind.


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> So then are you suggesting that I try to explain this to every stranger on
> the street who asks me about how much I can see, or whether or not I am
> legally blind or blind, when it is really none of their business in the
> first place? Honestly, it just seems as though everyone who has answered
> this question so far has totally missed the whole point of my email.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Suzanne Germano" <sgermano at asu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:28 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>
>  I think there is a distinction. If I tell a professor I am legally blind
>> and here is what I see my accommodations are completely different than
>> someone who is totally blind.
>>
>> I don't think it has anything to do with being better off but just so the
>> person has a better understanding.
>>
>> If I am trying to arrange close seats for an event and I say I am blind
>> then they ask why do I need close seats then. I I say I am low vision or
>> legally blind then they understand my need to be close.
>>
>> I also find I get less shit if I say legally blind. If I say I am blind
>> then I get the "You're not blind" snotty comment. becasue it is quite
>> obvious I have a lot of useful vision.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  Hello All,
>>>
>>> Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
>>> people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
>>> difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as
>>> being
>>> two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that
>>> anyone
>>> who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
>>> there are really no distinctions between these two things.
>>>
>>> it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
>>> more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even
>>> though
>>> they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
>>> asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.
>>> Personally, I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such
>>> personal information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see
>>> again.
>>>
>>> I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no
>>> longer
>>> wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
>>> also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel
>>> as
>>> though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much.
>>> But it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who
>>> believe
>>> that it does really matter.
>>>
>>> Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
>>> questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how
>>> do
>>> you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
>>> thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Dec  6 21:51:01 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 16:51:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <CAHox4DJMN_EoFfeKSESDA+3DOX0AuQBVjYVTTa7yKqEQcPvpJg@mail.gmail.com><65C065D8-5D09-4313-8F77-8322AFE16270@gmail.com><CAHox4DKef0XaNisb440WY9ysapNESKSv__r97-sosOqhrs_Q_Q@mail.gmail.com><00f801cef298$a94d0170$fbe70450$@gmail.com><CAMJRi1kR1ynBRPZ6sCNxJjyEG4H3C1-q6FWaWiM+rnw5smnGgA@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDzTDqjL=f6OQZvV8sYg7bt4_Sx2VB9kh4unF4mo3Ra1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL130-DS2F31FED6D695B9092CC45BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <643FD0F4739D4DA68CD601BDE80324CB@OwnerPC>

Hi Elizabeth,

There is most definitely a distinction between legal blindness and 
blindness.
Blindness is a functional definition.
Arielle is right in that if one is legally blind meaning they see 20/200
or have a field of vision of less than 20 degrees, then they meet the 
technical definition of legal blindness and are therefore  eligible for 
benefits like SSI or SSDI and of course NLS and VR services.

If you are blind, you probably function using blindness techniques such as 
braille and a cane. If you function primarily using blindness skills, then 
answer that you are blind.
For my life, I answer with a few sentences or reveal my vision if its 
relevant to the situation; like if they are showing pictures and point to 
stuff, I explain I cannot see that. I've also had coworkers point to stuff 
on a pc screen at internships, and then I explain I can see the outlines of 
boxes and the background of a screen, but not enough to read the screen and 
see the items they are clicking on.

For me, I answer that I'm legally blind since I do have excellent acuity and 
like Suzanne I don't look blind at first glance.
To me it really doesn't bother me too much.
I understand that NFB advocates that there is no distinction and wish to 
consider all legally blind people as blind, but in my experience it does 
matter since we really live in a world for the sighted. I can read some 
signs and some printed material and see colors; this helps in identifying 
items and buildings. It helps to understand what colors match and when 
sighted people talk about colors, I can understand this as I do see colors, 
although some shades of color are impossible to distinguish.
Of course all legally blind people can function well, provided they use the 
right combo of alternative techniques and their low vision.

So, I answer to some extent, but I'm not going to reveal any medical issues 
about my condition; I will say it’s a stable condition and I've been vision 
impaired all my life. But, with casual acquaintenances, I'm not going too 
deep.

As for you, you certainly are not obligated to share any personal 
information especially with strangers.
Perhaps just tell them you cannot see and could they use other means to help 
you rather than visual ones. In my experience, people ask how much I can see 
in order to help me. They also seem curious if they are strangers.
I do not know the context in which these people ask your vision issues.
But I'm guessing that if its strangers, they are trying to help.
Just tell them you are blind and they need to communicate in other ways. Ask 
them for verbal directions or to show you where items are. Sometimes, even 
though I use a cane and state I cannot see much having no side vision, they 
still point to things. They say Its over there or say "follow me." I usually 
cannot see them ahead especially if they turn; so I repeat I cannot see and 
then ask to take their arm so they can guide me.

Another idea is just answer with something brief, and then change the 
subject. If they persist,
state politely, you would rather not discuss it further.

When I've had enough about the vision talk, I usually can get my point 
across if I tell them I don't want to discuss it further. As a last resort, 
if its strangers, you can move away from them provided there is space to 
move. I've moved away from people who get on my nerves for one reason or 
another in the subway or food court.
Sometimes people are just too chatty whether its about vision or something 
else, and I've had enough. I want to go about my business.
So I either move away and end the talk abruptly, or if they seem nice and I 
can interject something, I say something like "it was nice chatting with you 
but I really need to go to the restroom." or "I've had a good talk with you, 
but I really need to get on my way to my next appointment" or "next class".

HTH,
Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Elizabeth Mohnke
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 3:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Hello All,

Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of questions from
people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is some huge
difference between these two things. Since I see these two things as being
two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying that anyone
who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is blind as
there are really no distinctions between these two things.

it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow believe the
more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person even though
they may be blind. Hence, it feels as though what the person is really
asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind. Personally,
I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such personal
information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see again.

I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I no longer
wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people. however, I am
also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question. I feel as
though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all that much. But
it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who believe that
it does really matter.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these kinds of
questions without revealing any personal information about yourself? how do
you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? Any
thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Elizabeth


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 22:07:16 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (Marissa)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:07:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
Message-ID: <52a24a99.c2ea420a.7dbc.ffff9070@mx.google.com>


First off, if you don't mind my asking, how much can you see? 
Then, maybe I can help as best I can with
this question, because my classmates, (I'm in 9th grade) ask me 
questions like that too and I get tired of answering after a 
while.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:17:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Hello All,

Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of 
questions from
people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is 
some huge
difference between these two things.  Since I see these two 
things as being
two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying 
that anyone
who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is 
blind as
there are really no distinctions between these two things.

it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow 
believe the
more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person 
even though
they may be blind.  Hence, it feels as though what the person is 
really
asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.  
Personally,
I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such personal
information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see 
again.

I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I 
no longer
wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people.  
however, I am
also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question.  
I feel as
though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all 
that much.  But
it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who 
believe that
it does really matter.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these 
kinds of
questions without revealing any personal information about 
yourself? how do
you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? 
Any
thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Elizabeth


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  6 22:57:27 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 17:57:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <52a24a99.c2ea420a.7dbc.ffff9070@mx.google.com>
References: <52a24a99.c2ea420a.7dbc.ffff9070@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <COL130-DS261317212611296AD5B895BAD60@phx.gbl>

Hello All,

Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
 even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself? Why 
should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of answer 
with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know why 
strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to figure out 
how much I can see or not see.

But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB 
teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people, and 
with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that a 
sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference does 
it make as to how much I can see or not see.

It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are trying 
to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person be able to 
function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying to tell me 
that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in life. How 
exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when my encounter 
with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal with what 
seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?

What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the wrong 
thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and 
cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give a 
specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day, but 
I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real heart of 
the issue.

Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I was 
just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of questions from 
other people in their lives.

Elizabeth 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 00:01:26 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (Marissa)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:01:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
Message-ID: <52a2655c.1073440a.28df.11d9@mx.google.com>


Well, if you don't feel comfortable talking about it, just say, 
"I'd rather not talk about it, if you don't mind." fixes any 
problems there.  Well, in some cases.  People should respect the 
fact that if you don't want to talk about it, you don't want to 
talk about it.  Or you could just say, "I'm blind." and leave it 
at that.  Tecknically, I don't see a difference between legally 
blind and just blind, but I guess the law has it's own version, 
and people have their own version of blindness.

I will be glad to help, if you have any more questions.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Mohnke" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:17:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Hello All,

Recently it seems as though I have been getting a lot of 
questions from
people who ask me if I am blind or legally blind as if there is 
some huge
difference between these two things.  Since I see these two 
things as being
two sides of the same coin, I have started to respond by saying 
that anyone
who is blind is legally blind and anyone who is legally Blind is 
blind as
there are really no distinctions between these two things.

it just seems to me like people who ask this question somehow 
believe the
more eyesight a person has the better off they are as a person 
even though
they may be blind.  Hence, it feels as though what the person is 
really
asking about is how much I can still see even though I am blind.  
Personally,
I feel as though I should not be obligated to share such personal
information with a mere stranger I will most likely never see 
again.

I guess I just feel as though I am at a point in my life where I 
no longer
wish to describe what I can and cannot see to other people.  
however, I am
also not quite sure what to say when people ask me this question.  
I feel as
though what I can and cannot see should not really matter all 
that much.  But
it seems as though I never really know what to say to those who 
believe that
it does really matter.

Do you have any thoughts or ideas about how to deal with these 
kinds of
questions without revealing any personal information about 
yourself? how do
you go about answering these kinds of questions in your own life? 
Any
thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Elizabeth


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 01:47:59 2013
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 20:47:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS261317212611296AD5B895BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <52a24a99.c2ea420a.7dbc.ffff9070@mx.google.com>
	<COL130-DS261317212611296AD5B895BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C59AFE05-E68B-4524-9E97-8FA54FADEC81@gmail.com>

You’re right that people generally think they have a reason for asking and so maybe it is best to try and get at the heart of that reason with a question of your own.  Could you say something like, “I can see a little, but its not useful for most tasks.  Why do you ask?”  This is brief, true, but vague enough that it doesn’t share a lot of personal info.  Their response will then clue you in as to whether or not you want to share more.  

If someone is just curious I may be less likely to share details with them than I would share with someone trying to give me directions and wondering if I can see the bright red sign at the end of the block.  

This also gives you an opportunity to challenge patronizing attitudes if you like or ignore them.  You could always respond with something simple like, “Oh, I don’t believe how successful someone is has anything to do with how much they can see,” and then be on your way.  Sometimes we feel the obligation to educate, which can be good, but we don’t always have to take up that role.  

Hope these thoughts are helpful as you decide what works best for you.

-Greg



On Dec 6, 2013, at 5:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself? Why should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of answer with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to figure out how much I can see or not see.
> 
> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people, and with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that a sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference does it make as to how much I can see or not see.
> 
> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person be able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying to tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
> 
> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the wrong thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give a specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day, but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real heart of the issue.
> 
> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of questions from other people in their lives.
> 
> Elizabeth 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From sgermano at asu.edu  Sat Dec  7 02:54:37 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 19:54:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS261317212611296AD5B895BAD60@phx.gbl>
References: <52a24a99.c2ea420a.7dbc.ffff9070@mx.google.com>
	<COL130-DS261317212611296AD5B895BAD60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcH8QrxC4yeaCtmcW7rN-6JKQ-3Df+74W9+5VgXmLxpfw@mail.gmail.com>

If a person thinks someone with no sight must have some sight in order to
do things then wouldn't it be an education for them if they discovered the
person did not have any sight or not as much sight as they thought?

I know someone who lost both her arms in an accident at the age of two and
I would like to know her techniques for the things she does that doesn't
mean I think she is less of a person or that she is not capable but there
are somethings I really can't figure out and if she explains them to people
they are educated one at a time.




On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself? Why
> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of answer
> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know
> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to figure
> out how much I can see or not see.
>
> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people, and
> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that a
> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference does
> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>
> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person be
> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying to
> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when
> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal
> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>
> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the wrong
> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give a
> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day,
> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real
> heart of the issue.
>
> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I
> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of questions
> from other people in their lives.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 05:50:29 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
	colleges?
Message-ID: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>

Hello,
I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services 
department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or 
tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all 
my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as 
hard and both colleges are state colleges.
I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the 
other firmly saying they don't need to?
I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
This is from:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

"no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be 
excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination 
under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial 
assistance"

Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures 
discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures 
discrimination?

"providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to 
that provided others,"

Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be 
equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be 
able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the 
materiel enough to ask questions.

"providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is 
necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those 
provided to others."

In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to 
completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely 
manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.

"For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must 
afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the 
same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of 
achievement as other students."

Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me 
with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid 
to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over 
materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded 
wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.

"have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the 
objectives of the education program"

I am not learning my language, so I need help!

"Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, 
policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; 
or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."

HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me 
know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please 
let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their 
boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
Thanks,

-- 
Brandon Keith Biggs



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 06:15:10 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 23:15:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAhCOj6iMFf+-oG1Vo5YuV+tPAc0uZwXw4t6Z5-dZBj7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brandon,

First, I think it is necessary to distinguish between personnel who
provide accessibility (readers or aides) and personnel who assist with
mastering or practicing material once it is learned (tutors). In the
case of blindness, accessibility personnel may be a relevant
accommodation but tutoring is a different thing and something not
directly relevant to blindness. I think it can be problematic to rely
on the same person for both accessibility (telling you what is written
on the board or in your textbook, a blindness accommodation) and
tutoring (helping you review material or teaching you stuff you don't
quite understand, something that is generally helpful but not
blindness-related). These are two separate roles, and especially if
you plan to use your reader for test-taking, having them also be your
tutor is a problem. Furthermore, most universities and colleges
provide some form of free tutoring to all students, so I wouldn't
consider tutoring a blindness accommodation. An aide or reader, on the
other hand, may be an appropriate blindness accommodation. However, I
think the law can get a little fuzzy as far as how much colleges are
actually required to provide. I know that some colleges and
universities don't have any form of disability services office and so
the responsibility for securing accommodations falls to students and
professors. Reader funding can often be obtained from voc rehab, and
many would argue that is a better system since it gives students more
power to choose who will be assisting them and to set their terms of
employment. So I'm not sure your college or department is necessarily
legally required to provide you with a reader in class. I would
suggest finding out what kinds of tutor support services are available
to all students and also talk to your professor about simple,
inexpensive ways he/she can make the class more accessible for you. If
you are still struggling, could you get funds from voc rehab to hire
your own reader and bring him/her to class with you as needed? You
shouldn't need your professor's permission to do this.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/6/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
> tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
> my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
> hard and both colleges are state colleges.
> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
> other firmly saying they don't need to?
> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
> This is from:
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
> assistance"
>
> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
> discrimination?
>
> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
> that provided others,"
>
> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
> able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
> materiel enough to ask questions.
>
> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
> provided to others."
>
> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
> manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>
> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
> same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
> achievement as other students."
>
> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
> to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
> materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
> wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>
> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
> objectives of the education program"
>
> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>
> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
> or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>
> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
> let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
> boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Dec  7 06:39:48 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 01:39:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for
	publiccolleges?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAhCOj6iMFf+-oG1Vo5YuV+tPAc0uZwXw4t6Z5-dZBj7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAhCOj6iMFf+-oG1Vo5YuV+tPAc0uZwXw4t6Z5-dZBj7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5AF3B5E74044867801842D1B4789B59@OwnerPC>

Hi Arielle,
Well said and I agree. All colleges are different, even state schools, so 
just because one college had aids does not mean other schools will.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 1:15 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for 
publiccolleges?

Hi Brandon,

First, I think it is necessary to distinguish between personnel who
provide accessibility (readers or aides) and personnel who assist with
mastering or practicing material once it is learned (tutors). In the
case of blindness, accessibility personnel may be a relevant
accommodation but tutoring is a different thing and something not
directly relevant to blindness. I think it can be problematic to rely
on the same person for both accessibility (telling you what is written
on the board or in your textbook, a blindness accommodation) and
tutoring (helping you review material or teaching you stuff you don't
quite understand, something that is generally helpful but not
blindness-related). These are two separate roles, and especially if
you plan to use your reader for test-taking, having them also be your
tutor is a problem. Furthermore, most universities and colleges
provide some form of free tutoring to all students, so I wouldn't
consider tutoring a blindness accommodation. An aide or reader, on the
other hand, may be an appropriate blindness accommodation. However, I
think the law can get a little fuzzy as far as how much colleges are
actually required to provide. I know that some colleges and
universities don't have any form of disability services office and so
the responsibility for securing accommodations falls to students and
professors. Reader funding can often be obtained from voc rehab, and
many would argue that is a better system since it gives students more
power to choose who will be assisting them and to set their terms of
employment. So I'm not sure your college or department is necessarily
legally required to provide you with a reader in class. I would
suggest finding out what kinds of tutor support services are available
to all students and also talk to your professor about simple,
inexpensive ways he/she can make the class more accessible for you. If
you are still struggling, could you get funds from voc rehab to hire
your own reader and bring him/her to class with you as needed? You
shouldn't need your professor's permission to do this.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/6/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
> tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
> my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
> hard and both colleges are state colleges.
> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
> other firmly saying they don't need to?
> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
> This is from:
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
> assistance"
>
> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
> discrimination?
>
> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
> that provided others,"
>
> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
> able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
> materiel enough to ask questions.
>
> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
> provided to others."
>
> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
> manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>
> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
> same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
> achievement as other students."
>
> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
> to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
> materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
> wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>
> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
> objectives of the education program"
>
> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>
> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
> or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>
> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
> let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
> boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Dec  7 07:17:47 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 02:17:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for
	publiccolleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06BAC7AA0AA147178F8BC0DB701545FC@OwnerPC>

Brandon,
As to the first question, the ADA is a tricky animal. You'd need to ask a 
lawyer or disability advocate.
For the second about the discrepancy in services, its simple.
Some colleges provide more support than others. Just because your last 
school provided aids, which I assume were notetakers, for you does not mean 
all schools will. You shouldn't assume that. All schools are different. As 
for them telling you the ADA does not require aides, that is not true if the 
aide gives you equalivelant information.

I'd suggest working with your professor in office hours or make appointments 
with him or her to go over material. Of course, they cannot repeat 
everything, but just some odds and ends and specific questions. I found it 
very helpful to use professor's office hours in school. I cannot imagine 
taking a language in college as its heavily visual. I did not do this, but I 
assume you have to. They teach by pointing to pictures and the foreign 
language word is under it. I took spanish in high school and even with 
support from my vision teacher it was hard; I had the text and handouts in 
braille, and in college you don't get this. For the various pictures, my 
vision teacher would describe them in english braille so I knew what they 
were. My spanish teachers rarely translated items.
Oh, and I know about the spelling too fast thing! They spelled too fast in 
class for me as well! I can hardly copy spellings in english, let alone 
another language.

If seeing your professor isn't enough, get a tutor. All students need tutors 
if they struggle, so a tutor is not a blindness thing.
The ADA does not talk about tutors. Aides, however, can be an accomodation.
You should check if your school offers free tutoring. My school did, but it 
was limited; like one session per week, but it was something. All student 
tutors had to have taken the subject they tutored in and gotten a high 
grade. You might also be able to hire a language student, meaning someone in 
that major as well.
There are always outside firms, but they are very expensive.

I believe you quoted the right passages of the law; it sounds right. But I'm 
not a lawyer.
I think you should approach your disability office explaining why you need 
an aid and see if they can work something out; if they say no, go up the 
chain. But this may take a while to work out. Meanwhile,
try and get the info you need. I'm not sure what this is other than 
spellings of words. Could you record class to get some of this? Could you 
ask another student or two for their notes?
Maybe the professor could give you a copy of vocabulary and other key stuff 
she / he writes on the board.
Also, the professor could describe the pictures in english before class, 
perhaps.

I definitely recall a lot of pictures and pointing to things in class. I was 
so easily
lost. I believe blind people can learn languages, but the way its taught is 
way not, not suited to us.

A final thing is do not tell the disability office you need a tutor because 
that's not their responsibility.
They deal with accomodations. What you need is an assistant to describe what 
is in class and take notes; this person needs to know some of the language 
to do this job.
Perhaps, your disability office is reacting this way because you use the 
word tutor.
A tutor is different than accomodations. You need an accomodation in class. 
You are on your own for the tutor thing.

If you have money of your own or use your families' money, you could hire 
your own readers.
But I guess you are looking for an aid in class. Anyway, if you need  a 
reader outside class, its great to go do it yourself.
This is a great option, IMO, because you have lots of control over the 
reader then; like the quality of the reader, when and where you meet, and 
length of sessions.
Oh, my state paid very low for readers and here students want high wages and 
money quickly; the state is very slow in issuing checks, so I did not use 
them. Keep in mind, students can go get campus jobs or go sell merchandise 
and be paid minimum wage. I had to pay well to compete with these jobs that 
were so abundantly around.

Its real difficult to draw a line between tutoring and reading sometimes.
But you have to stick to in class access to get accomodations. So leave the 
tutors out of the disability discussion.
My readers seemed to want to help more than just read and I let them.
I found this out when working with some readers; in reading, they naturally 
fell into the position of helping me; they would paraphrase or reread 
unclear passages.
I found they  also stopped to add examples of their own and sometimes we 
would have a quick side conversation.
Also, my readers would read charts and describe pictures.
So, they ended up helping me understand the material, not just strictly 
reading.
I found that we both would learn the material through reading, so it just 
made sense to sort of discuss it too.
For instance, in reading my intro to business text, they had examples of 
management styles. We read that and came up with our own. In some psychology 
texts, they had pages about stage theories, but the book gave you summary 
tables of the major points.
So, my reader read through the table, but she had to understand it herself 
to some extent to read it to me.

Anyway, what I'm saying is if you hire your own readers, they can tutor you 
too, but you probably want to hire separate people.
Even if your reader does sort of informally tutor you, as mine did 
sometimes, it won't matter if you hire them.
However, it most definitely will matter if the school hires you one.


something

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 12:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; NFB of California 
List
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for 
publiccolleges?

Hello,
I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
hard and both colleges are state colleges.
I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
other firmly saying they don't need to?
I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
This is from:
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

"no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
assistance"

Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
discrimination?

"providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
that provided others,"

Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
materiel enough to ask questions.

"providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
provided to others."

In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.

"For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
achievement as other students."

Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.

"have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
objectives of the education program"

I am not learning my language, so I need help!

"Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."

HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
Thanks,

-- 
Brandon Keith Biggs


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From chuyandkia at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 07:32:17 2013
From: chuyandkia at gmail.com (Kia Vaca)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 23:32:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Nfbc-info] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA
	for public colleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADyqJV=Fh_HK1W8D+ZdfeX0xpRfwcguOmER9p7+_g5nGtnEg9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brandon,

As blind students, we are responsible for securing our own tutors or
aids. Although, in the past, some disabled students offices have
provided such benefits as aids and tutors, this is no longer the case
because of budget cuts.

Yes, we should have equal access to books and materials being utilized
in our classes; however, we need to take equal responsibility for
appropriating the necessary tools for successful completion of our
classes. If we wish to be on equal ground with our sighted
counterparts, in this case on the college level, then it is our
responsibility to find our own tutors for classes. Most departments
offer tutoring for all students who need it. I, myself, have gone to
get tutoring for various classes.

In terms of taking notes, recording our classes along with writing
them down is an option. If a professor writes on the board, you can
ask another classmate to take notes using NCR paper, thereby insuring
a copy for you and your classmate. Furthermore, you can also ask the
professor to e-mail you or provide you with a hard copy of his/her
notes. However, the professor is not, by any means, obligated or
required to give you their notes. If you approach them kindly, they
will be more likely to assist you.

Hope this helps.

Kia


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  7 10:44:59 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 05:44:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C534471D-C462-4C25-965C-1C8361F12038@yahoo.com>

Hello, 

Your college is required to provide you with accommodations, but they can choose how to do so. For example, providing you with a test online instead of having someone read it to you.
If they feel that you can access the materials through some other means, then they may not provide an actual person to age.

I had a similar experience at my college, that is also state-funded.

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as hard and both colleges are state colleges.
> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the other firmly saying they don't need to?
> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
> This is from:
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
> 
> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance"
> 
> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures discrimination?
> 
> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to that provided others,"
> 
> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the materiel enough to ask questions.
> 
> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those provided to others."
> 
> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
> 
> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of achievement as other students."
> 
> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
> 
> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the objectives of the education program"
> 
> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
> 
> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
> 
> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
> 
> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
> 
> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Dec  7 15:48:03 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 09:48:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for
	public	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>

Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is a requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.  You are asking 
for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:

>Hello,
>I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services 
>department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or 
>tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all 
>my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as 
>hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the 
>other firmly saying they don't need to?
>I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>This is from:
>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

>"no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be 
>excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination 
>under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial 
>assistance"

>Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures 
>discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures 
>discrimination?

>"providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to 
>that provided others,"

>Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be 
>equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be 
>able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the 
>materiel enough to ask questions.

>"providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is 
>necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those 
>provided to others."

>In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to 
>completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely 
>manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.

>"For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must 
>afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the 
>same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of 
>achievement as other students."

>Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me 
>with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid 
>to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over 
>materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded 
>wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.

>"have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the 
>objectives of the education program"

>I am not learning my language, so I need help!

>"Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, 
>policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; 
>or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."

>HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.

>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

>If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me 
>know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please 
>let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their 
>boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>Thanks,

>-- 
>Brandon Keith Biggs


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 16:00:21 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 08:00:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
 colleges?
In-Reply-To: <C534471D-C462-4C25-965C-1C8361F12038@yahoo.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
	<C534471D-C462-4C25-965C-1C8361F12038@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52A34615.2040409@gmail.com>

Hello,
I know I would be fantastic in the class if I could see the materials 
and a quick description in class doesn't cut it, after all, a picture is 
worth a thousand words.
I love languages and I'm really really good at them. I just don't mesh 
with the teacher's style of teaching. I need both in class and out of 
class comprehension work with someone in order for me to figure out what 
the teacher said that day. I am in the top 15% GPA at my school, and I 
never have needed tutors for any classes at this college before. I know 
how I learn and work, and what I get out of this class is maybe 10% of 
the information I should be getting.
The school doesn't offer language tutors in any way shape or form.
Also, I asked for a note taker and not only am I not able to read that 
paper they give the students, so they would have to put it onto a 
computer, but for a quarter the student gets payed $45. I wouldn't fix 
up my notes every class for $45. There is around 6 pages for each 
class... When I asked, no one wanted to be a note-taker.
The teacher's office hours are during another class that I have and the 
student study group meets during that other class as well, so I haven't 
been able to attend any of those. I have met with the teacher and I did 
meet with the head of the study group twice, but I still can't speak 
enough french to do well on the final. I'm taking this class for the 
next 2 quarters and I need to take the class that is during the 
teacher's office hours the next 2 quarters as well.
How much does a tutor charge? I personally have sworn never to work for 
the government because it is so painful to get a pittance. Because the 
tutor is also my in-class aid and spells words for me very slowly and 
tells me briefly what the pictures are, I'm not sure if that would count 
in the same rate?

Currently we have a really advanced student in the class who has been 
working as my aid and who I have met with twice outside of class. But I 
need more meeting time outside of class to ask her what she meant by a 
word and to see if I got all the words right and to see if I missed 
anything.
Considering the class meets 4 hours a week and minimum wage is over $8 
an hour, I would be paying her $320+ for the quarter just to be my 
in-class aid.
If I then payed for her out of class, that would be even more.
How do other people factor this?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs

On 12/7/2013 2:44 AM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Your college is required to provide you with accommodations, but they can choose how to do so. For example, providing you with a test online instead of having someone read it to you.
> If they feel that you can access the materials through some other means, then they may not provide an actual person to age.
>
> I had a similar experience at my college, that is also state-funded.
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the other firmly saying they don't need to?
>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>> This is from:
>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>
>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance"
>>
>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures discrimination?
>>
>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to that provided others,"
>>
>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the materiel enough to ask questions.
>>
>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those provided to others."
>>
>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>>
>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of achievement as other students."
>>
>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>>
>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the objectives of the education program"
>>
>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>
>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>
>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>
>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>
>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -- 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Dec  7 16:23:00 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:23:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcH8QrxC4yeaCtmcW7rN-6JKQ-3Df+74W9+5VgXmLxpfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>

Elizabeth,

One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is completely 
normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble 
understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better off one is.  What 
I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to struggle with the 
little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other ways.  Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when they meet 
someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something we try to 
teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.

How you handle a particular incident is something only you can determine.  However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to some 
degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent the blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public determines 
how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep working to change this, but it is what it is.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson\

>On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:

>> Hello All,
>>
>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself? Why
>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of answer
>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know
>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to figure
>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>
>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people, and
>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that a
>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference does
>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>
>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person be
>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying to
>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when
>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal
>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>
>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the wrong
>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give a
>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day,
>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real
>> heart of the issue.
>>
>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I
>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of questions
>> from other people in their lives.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 16:28:25 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 11:28:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA
	forpublic	colleges?
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>

They don't have to do that because when I was in university for 
undergraduate work, I requested for something to be brailled and they told 
me to learn how to use ascanner, and they were not going to braille 
anything. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic 
colleges?


> Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is a 
> requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.  You 
> are asking
> for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
>>department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
>>tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
>>my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
>>hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>>I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
>>other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>This is from:
>>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
>>"no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
>>excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
>>under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
>>assistance"
>
>>Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
>>discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
>>discrimination?
>
>>"providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
>>that provided others,"
>
>>Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
>>equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
>>able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
>>materiel enough to ask questions.
>
>>"providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
>>necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
>>provided to others."
>
>>In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
>>completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
>>manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>
>>"For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
>>afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
>>same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
>>achievement as other students."
>
>>Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
>>with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
>>to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
>>materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
>>wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>
>>"have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
>>objectives of the education program"
>
>>I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>
>>"Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
>>policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
>>or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>
>>HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>
>>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>
>>If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
>>know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
>>let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
>>boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>Thanks,
>
>>-- 
>>Brandon Keith Biggs
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Dec  7 16:33:30 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:33:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
	colleges?
Message-ID: <auto-000015690767@mailback4.g2host.com>

Brandon,

What I am going to write here is not meant to say what I feel is fair or unfair, it is simply what I have observed as a student.  I majored in math many years 
ago and I minored in German.  Both provided challenges and often were visual in nature.  One thing that I had to learn as a blind person is that it was not 
necessary to get every bit of information that others were getting through their eyes to do well in those classes.  In some cases, I got information in 
different ways, but in some cases, words were reinforced with pictures and if I paid close attention to what was said, the pictures were less important.  I 
can't say that I never missed something using this approach, but the effort that I would have made to get every blackboard math example, for instance, 
would have taken enough time that it may well have affected my grade negatively elsewhere.  What I am saying is that you have to try to sort out what 
you really need to do well rather than thinking that anything anyone gets that you do not get means you will do worse.  The more support people you have 
to pay for and coordinate the more time you are going to have to spend on that instead of your course work.  For one thing, you could look for alternatives 
for hiring a note-taker.  While I think braille is the best option to take my own notes, there are other options now that also might work.  There is a lot in your 
note that could stimulate some interesting discussion, but it might be necessary to understand more about your situation.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 08:00:21 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:

>Hello,
>I know I would be fantastic in the class if I could see the materials 
>and a quick description in class doesn't cut it, after all, a picture is 
>worth a thousand words.
>I love languages and I'm really really good at them. I just don't mesh 
>with the teacher's style of teaching. I need both in class and out of 
>class comprehension work with someone in order for me to figure out what 
>the teacher said that day. I am in the top 15% GPA at my school, and I 
>never have needed tutors for any classes at this college before. I know 
>how I learn and work, and what I get out of this class is maybe 10% of 
>the information I should be getting.
>The school doesn't offer language tutors in any way shape or form.
>Also, I asked for a note taker and not only am I not able to read that 
>paper they give the students, so they would have to put it onto a 
>computer, but for a quarter the student gets payed $45. I wouldn't fix 
>up my notes every class for $45. There is around 6 pages for each 
>class... When I asked, no one wanted to be a note-taker.
>The teacher's office hours are during another class that I have and the 
>student study group meets during that other class as well, so I haven't 
>been able to attend any of those. I have met with the teacher and I did 
>meet with the head of the study group twice, but I still can't speak 
>enough french to do well on the final. I'm taking this class for the 
>next 2 quarters and I need to take the class that is during the 
>teacher's office hours the next 2 quarters as well.
>How much does a tutor charge? I personally have sworn never to work for 
>the government because it is so painful to get a pittance. Because the 
>tutor is also my in-class aid and spells words for me very slowly and 
>tells me briefly what the pictures are, I'm not sure if that would count 
>in the same rate?

>Currently we have a really advanced student in the class who has been 
>working as my aid and who I have met with twice outside of class. But I 
>need more meeting time outside of class to ask her what she meant by a 
>word and to see if I got all the words right and to see if I missed 
>anything.
>Considering the class meets 4 hours a week and minimum wage is over $8 
>an hour, I would be paying her $320+ for the quarter just to be my 
>in-class aid.
>If I then payed for her out of class, that would be even more.
>How do other people factor this?
>Thanks,

>Brandon Keith Biggs

>On 12/7/2013 2:44 AM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Your college is required to provide you with accommodations, but they can choose how to do so. For example, providing you with a test online instead 
of having someone read it to you.
>> If they feel that you can access the materials through some other means, then they may not provide an actual person to age.
>>
>> I had a similar experience at my college, that is also state-funded.
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or tutor for me in a 
language class. In my last college I had aids for all my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as hard and both colleges are state 
colleges.
>>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>> This is from:
>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>
>>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" 
any program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance"
>>>
>>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures discrimination?
>>>
>>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to that provided others,"
>>>
>>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be able to ask 
the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the materiel enough to ask questions.
>>>
>>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those provided to 
others."
>>>
>>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely manor that 
helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>>>
>>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the same result, 
gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of achievement as other students."
>>>
>>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid to both 
grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded wrong because the teacher 
was spelling too fast on the board.
>>>
>>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the objectives of the education program"
>>>
>>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>>
>>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or 
providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>>
>>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>>
>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>
>>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please let me know. 
Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com









From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 16:37:45 2013
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 11:37:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
Message-ID: <CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>

Here in North Carolina, a tutor would get paid by the department of
services for the blind. After requesting the service and getting
approved, one would interview and hire their own tutor. Then, the
tutor would fill out a  timetable of the hours they worked and turn it
into the DSB. The tutor would be paid at the end of each month for the
hours they worked. As far as I have seen, DSB sets a limit of hours,
such as 7  hours a week (basically an hour a day) or 20 hours a  month
(1 hour a day during the week), and anything over that is the
student's responsibility. The hour limit is based on an assessment
done by DSB to figurre out how many hours a week or month you'll need.
And if that tutor sucks, you have the right to fire them and hire a
new one that will do the job the way you want for the hours you need.
Jewel

On 12/7/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> They don't have to do that because when I was in university for
> undergraduate work, I requested for something to be brailled and they told
> me to learn how to use ascanner, and they were not going to braille
> anything. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
> colleges?
>
>
>> Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is a
>> requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.  You
>>
>> are asking
>> for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
>>>department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
>>>tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
>>>my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
>>>hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>>>I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
>>>other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>>I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>>This is from:
>>>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>
>>>"no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
>>>excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
>>>under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
>>>assistance"
>>
>>>Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
>>>discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
>>>discrimination?
>>
>>>"providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
>>>that provided others,"
>>
>>>Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
>>>equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
>>>able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
>>>materiel enough to ask questions.
>>
>>>"providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
>>>necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
>>>provided to others."
>>
>>>In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
>>>completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
>>>manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>>
>>>"For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
>>>afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
>>>same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
>>>achievement as other students."
>>
>>>Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
>>>with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
>>>to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
>>>materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
>>>wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>>
>>>"have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
>>>objectives of the education program"
>>
>>>I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>
>>>"Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
>>>policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
>>>or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>
>>>HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>
>>>http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>
>>>If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
>>>know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
>>>let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
>>>boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>>Thanks,
>>
>>>--
>>>Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:27:41 2013
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 09:27:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
 colleges?
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>

Hello,
If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I 
would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high 
school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have 
enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My 
mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to 
provide aids for students.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs

On 12/7/2013 8:37 AM, Jewel wrote:
> Here in North Carolina, a tutor would get paid by the department of
> services for the blind. After requesting the service and getting
> approved, one would interview and hire their own tutor. Then, the
> tutor would fill out a  timetable of the hours they worked and turn it
> into the DSB. The tutor would be paid at the end of each month for the
> hours they worked. As far as I have seen, DSB sets a limit of hours,
> such as 7  hours a week (basically an hour a day) or 20 hours a  month
> (1 hour a day during the week), and anything over that is the
> student's responsibility. The hour limit is based on an assessment
> done by DSB to figurre out how many hours a week or month you'll need.
> And if that tutor sucks, you have the right to fire them and hire a
> new one that will do the job the way you want for the hours you need.
> Jewel
>
> On 12/7/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They don't have to do that because when I was in university for
>> undergraduate work, I requested for something to be brailled and they told
>> me to learn how to use ascanner, and they were not going to braille
>> anything. RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 10:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
>> colleges?
>>
>>
>>> Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is a
>>> requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.  You
>>>
>>> are asking
>>> for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
>>>> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
>>>> tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all
>>>> my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
>>>> hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>>>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
>>>> other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>>> This is from:
>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
>>>> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
>>>> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
>>>> assistance"
>>>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
>>>> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
>>>> discrimination?
>>>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
>>>> that provided others,"
>>>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
>>>> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
>>>> able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
>>>> materiel enough to ask questions.
>>>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
>>>> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
>>>> provided to others."
>>>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
>>>> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
>>>> manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
>>>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
>>>> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
>>>> same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
>>>> achievement as other students."
>>>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
>>>> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid
>>>> to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
>>>> materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
>>>> wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>>>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
>>>> objectives of the education program"
>>>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
>>>> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers;
>>>> or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
>>>> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
>>>> let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their
>>>> boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> --
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com



From christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:35:54 2013
From: christopher.meyer007 at gmail.com (Christopher Meyer)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 12:35:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fwd: Youth with Disabilities Find Path
	to	Employment Through National Service
In-Reply-To: <DAC9AF7D-F486-4888-ABF6-77B69A4E8E86@gmail.com>
References: <16789866.968@delivery.nationalservice.gov>
	<DAC9AF7D-F486-4888-ABF6-77B69A4E8E86@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00d801cef372$c8f6c580$5ae45080$@gmail.com>

Hi Darian,

The message you forwarded had the link removed. Could you forward on a direct copy of the email? I'm interested to read the full memo.
You can reach me off list if you'd like.

Best,
Christopher Meyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Darian [mailto:dsmithnfb at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 1:48 PM
To: Community Service Discussion List; National Association of blind students
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Fwd: Youth with Disabilities Find Path to Employment Through National Service

Hi all:
Very interesting stuff. Kind of makes sense if you think about it interested to hear your thoughts on the below information

This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Corporation for National & Community Service" 
> <cncs at delivery.nationalservice.gov>
> Date: December 4, 2013 at 7:19:19 AM PST
> To: ds94124 at aol.com
> Subject: Youth with Disabilities Find Path to Employment Through 
> National Service
> Reply-To: cncs at delivery.nationalservice.gov
> 
> 
> Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.
> 
> Youth with Disabilities Find Path to Employment Through National 
> Service The job market for young job seekers is always challenging but especially so in a recovering economy. A letter from the Department of Labor’s Office of Disability Employment Policy and the Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS) outlines several of the avenues -- including service-learning and volunteering -- that can be used to release the untapped potential of all youth, including those with disabilities.
> By opening doors to employment through volunteer and national service programs, youth and youth with disabilities will gain access to valuable job experiences and develop a network of contacts that can lead to employment later. CNCS research has found connections between volunteering and employment, including a 27 percent higher likelihood for volunteers finding work than non-volunteers.
> Guidance in the memo from the Department of Labor also addresses concerns about participation in CNCS programs such as AmeriCorps that provide a stipend, which may ease fears that national service would adversely affect those who receive Social Security benefits and their families. 
> Learn more about how youth with disabilities can improve their employment prospects by reading the full text of the memo and viewing helpful resources here.
>         
> Questions? Contact Us	SUBSCRIBER SERVICES: Manage Preferences	 Unsubscribe	Help
> This service is provided to you at no charge by Corporation for National and Community Service.
> This email was sent to ds94124 at aol.com using GovDelivery, on behalf of: Corporation for National & Community Service · 1201 New York Avenue, NW  · Washington, DC 20525 · (202) 606- 5000 · (800) 833-3722	




From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:40:15 2013
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 12:40:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>

Hello Steve and all,

I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my questions 
more to this email list.

I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the 
blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would rather 
be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and 
interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some 
stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the street 
how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind 
person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am 
blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of eyesight 
to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the more likely 
a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was not mentioned 
in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing my arm thinking I 
am in need of assistance when I am just going about the normal business of 
my life. I just never really know what to say to these people in some two 
second interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity, or 
to get them to leave me alone.

I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of 
questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I 
could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However, based 
on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though most 
people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in their 
lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being legally blind 
and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I could go 
about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like some stupid 
fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not know what to say. 
I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to pose my 
question.

Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

> Elizabeth,
>
> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the 
> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is 
> completely
> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or even 
> know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble
> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are 
> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better off 
> one is.  What
> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision than 
> it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to struggle 
> with the
> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other ways. 
> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when they 
> meet
> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little 
> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something we 
> try to
> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>
> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can determine. 
> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to 
> some
> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent the 
> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public determines
> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep 
> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson\
>
>>On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke 
>><lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself? 
>>> Why
>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of 
>>> answer
>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know
>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to 
>>> figure
>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>
>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people, 
>>> and
>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that 
>>> a
>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference 
>>> does
>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>
>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person 
>>> be
>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying 
>>> to
>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions 
>>> when
>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not 
>>> deal
>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>
>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the 
>>> wrong
>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give 
>>> a
>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day,
>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real
>>> heart of the issue.
>>>
>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I
>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of 
>>> questions
>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:40:32 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 10:40:32 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>

The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
includes an aide, but not always.

On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My
> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
> provide aids for students.
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
>
> On 12/7/2013 8:37 AM, Jewel wrote:
>> Here in North Carolina, a tutor would get paid by the department of
>> services for the blind. After requesting the service and getting
>> approved, one would interview and hire their own tutor. Then, the
>> tutor would fill out a  timetable of the hours they worked and turn it
>> into the DSB. The tutor would be paid at the end of each month for the
>> hours they worked. As far as I have seen, DSB sets a limit of hours,
>> such as 7  hours a week (basically an hour a day) or 20 hours a  month
>> (1 hour a day during the week), and anything over that is the
>> student's responsibility. The hour limit is based on an assessment
>> done by DSB to figurre out how many hours a week or month you'll need.
>> And if that tutor sucks, you have the right to fire them and hire a
>> new one that will do the job the way you want for the hours you need.
>> Jewel
>>
>> On 12/7/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> They don't have to do that because when I was in university for
>>> undergraduate work, I requested for something to be brailled and they
>>> told
>>> me to learn how to use ascanner, and they were not going to braille
>>> anything. RJ
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 10:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA
>>> forpublic
>>> colleges?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is
>>>> a
>>>> requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.
>>>> You
>>>>
>>>> are asking
>>>> for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
>>>>> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
>>>>> tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for
>>>>> all
>>>>> my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
>>>>> hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>>>>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and
>>>>> the
>>>>> other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>>>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>>>> This is from:
>>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall
>>>>> be
>>>>> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to
>>>>> discrimination
>>>>> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
>>>>> assistance"
>>>>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
>>>>> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
>>>>> discrimination?
>>>>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
>>>>> that provided others,"
>>>>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
>>>>> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
>>>>> able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the
>>>>> materiel enough to ask questions.
>>>>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
>>>>> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as
>>>>> those
>>>>> provided to others."
>>>>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
>>>>> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
>>>>> manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to
>>>>> do.
>>>>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they
>>>>> must
>>>>> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
>>>>> same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
>>>>> achievement as other students."
>>>>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
>>>>> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an
>>>>> aid
>>>>> to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
>>>>> materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
>>>>> wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>>>>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
>>>>> objectives of the education program"
>>>>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>>>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
>>>>> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication
>>>>> barriers;
>>>>> or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>>>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
>>>>> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
>>>>> let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and
>>>>> their
>>>>> boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> --
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:48:10 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 10:48:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>

Also, it's hard to know if the reason you're struggling is because of
not seeing the pictures, or because the teacher is just not very good
at making the content user-friendly for anybody. I suspect that maybe
other students are also struggling in the class. Is it possible to get
a different teacher for the next two  quarters?

In my own experience (majoring in biology, taking lots of science
classes along with foreign language) everything that was important was
either verbalized by the teacher or written down in the textbook, or
both. If something wasn't in the text and the teacher didn't verbalize
it it usually wasn't important. However, your particular teacher might
not be very good at verbalizing what is important. You may need to
meet with her several times and nudge her to make the verbal part of
her class more accessible to you, e.g. by spelling new words out loud
slowly. This is something that would help everyone not just you. If
you want to advocate, I think working with the teacher or finding a
new one is a more effective tack than trying to persuade the school to
provide tutor service which isn't directly related to your disability.

Arielle

On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
> They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
> particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
> includes an aide, but not always.
>
> On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
>> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
>> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
>> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
>> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My
>> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
>> provide aids for students.
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>
>> On 12/7/2013 8:37 AM, Jewel wrote:
>>> Here in North Carolina, a tutor would get paid by the department of
>>> services for the blind. After requesting the service and getting
>>> approved, one would interview and hire their own tutor. Then, the
>>> tutor would fill out a  timetable of the hours they worked and turn it
>>> into the DSB. The tutor would be paid at the end of each month for the
>>> hours they worked. As far as I have seen, DSB sets a limit of hours,
>>> such as 7  hours a week (basically an hour a day) or 20 hours a  month
>>> (1 hour a day during the week), and anything over that is the
>>> student's responsibility. The hour limit is based on an assessment
>>> done by DSB to figurre out how many hours a week or month you'll need.
>>> And if that tutor sucks, you have the right to fire them and hire a
>>> new one that will do the job the way you want for the hours you need.
>>> Jewel
>>>
>>> On 12/7/13, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> They don't have to do that because when I was in university for
>>>> undergraduate work, I requested for something to be brailled and they
>>>> told
>>>> me to learn how to use ascanner, and they were not going to braille
>>>> anything. RJ
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 10:48 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA
>>>> forpublic
>>>> colleges?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Approach this as asking for reader service.  I am not sure if there is
>>>>> a
>>>>> requirement that tutors or "aids" be provided without other criteria.
>>>>> You
>>>>>
>>>>> are asking
>>>>> for more than "eyes" or for making the course "accessible."
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 21:50:29 -0800, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
>>>>>> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or
>>>>>> tutor for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> my math and science classes. At this new college, language is just as
>>>>>> hard and both colleges are state colleges.
>>>>>> I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> other firmly saying they don't need to?
>>>>>> I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
>>>>>> This is from:
>>>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>>>> "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to
>>>>>> discrimination
>>>>>> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
>>>>>> assistance"
>>>>>> Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
>>>>>> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
>>>>>> discrimination?
>>>>>> "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> that provided others,"
>>>>>> Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
>>>>>> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be
>>>>>> able to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> materiel enough to ask questions.
>>>>>> "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
>>>>>> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> provided to others."
>>>>>> In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
>>>>>> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely
>>>>>> manor that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to
>>>>>> do.
>>>>>> "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the
>>>>>> same result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of
>>>>>> achievement as other students."
>>>>>> Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an
>>>>>> aid
>>>>>> to both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over
>>>>>> materiel after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded
>>>>>> wrong because the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
>>>>>> "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
>>>>>> objectives of the education program"
>>>>>> I am not learning my language, so I need help!
>>>>>> "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying
>>>>>> rules,
>>>>>> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication
>>>>>> barriers;
>>>>>> or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
>>>>>> HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
>>>>>> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
>>>>>> If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
>>>>>> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please
>>>>>> let me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> boss so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  7 17:55:50 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 10:55:50 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCF6_jaxk+dvn30m2c+peNP45MuzNygdE24rspc+cVETQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Elizabeth,

I think the answers you are getting reflect the fact that none of us
really know what to say when this happens. We often just make
something up on the fly and hope it's good enough. I struggle to give
you advice because I have been in these situations and haven't figured
out one good thing to say that is polite yet also gets my point across
while also not taking up too much time. Seems like if someone asks if
you are legally blind or blind, leaving it at "I'm blind" is perfectly
fine. If the question is more detailed about what you can see, then
your answer will depend on how much time you have with them and how
much detail you feel comfortable sharing.
For the arm-grab situations, I have come up with a pretty consistent
formula for handling those. If the person grabs without saying a word
to me,  then I simply pull my arm out of their grasp without saying a
word to them. If the person says something like "let me help you"
while grabbing then I pull out of their grasp while responding with
"Please let go of me; thank you". I've found this allows me to
maintain some politeness while also firmly conveying that I will not
allow them to grab me. If time allows I may explain to the surprised
grabber that it is actually more helpful to give verbal directions
rather than grabbing and that grabbing interferes with my balance and
increases my risk of tripping and falling (as I know from occasional
experience). People seem surprised at first but generally accept this
information.

Arielle

On 12/7/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Steve and all,
>
> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my questions
> more to this email list.
>
> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would rather
> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the street
> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of eyesight
>
> to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the more likely
>
> a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was not mentioned
>
> in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing my arm thinking I
>
> am in need of assistance when I am just going about the normal business of
> my life. I just never really know what to say to these people in some two
> second interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity, or
>
> to get them to leave me alone.
>
> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However, based
>
> on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though most
> people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in their
> lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being legally blind
>
> and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I could go
>
> about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like some stupid
> fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not know what to say.
>
> I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to pose my
> question.
>
> Elizabeth
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>
>> Elizabeth,
>>
>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>> completely
>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or even
>>
>> know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble
>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better off
>>
>> one is.  What
>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision than
>>
>> it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to struggle
>>
>> with the
>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other ways.
>>
>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when they
>>
>> meet
>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something we
>>
>> try to
>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>
>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can determine.
>>
>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>> some
>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent the
>>
>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>> determines
>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson\
>>
>>>On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>><lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>> Why
>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>> answer
>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>> know
>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>> figure
>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>
>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>> and
>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>> does
>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>
>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>> be
>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>> when
>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>> deal
>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>
>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>> wrong
>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would give
>>>>
>>>> a
>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>> day,
>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real
>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I
>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>> questions
>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec  7 22:04:12 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 17:04:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3E2F932-7768-4C44-B2BE-BE1CA37F9C69@fuse.net>

Instead of a tutor, you could try finding your own study materials. Textbooks for foreign languages often have vocabulary glossaries and explain grammar concepts. Many textbooks often have edition all independent study materials. This has worked for me in my Spanish classes. Hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Also, it's hard to know if the reason you're struggling is because of
> not seeing the pictures, or because the teacher is just not very good
> at making the content user-friendly for anybody. I suspect that maybe
> other students are also struggling in the class. Is it possible to get
> a different teacher for the next two  quarters?
> 
> In my own experience (majoring in biology, taking lots of science
> classes along with foreign language) everything that was important was
> either verbalized by the teacher or written down in the textbook, or
> both. If something wasn't in the text and the teacher didn't verbalize
> it it usually wasn't important. However, your particular teacher might
> not be very good at verbalizing what is important. You may need to
> meet with her several times and nudge her to make the verbal part of
> her class more accessible to you, e.g. by spelling new words out loud
> slowly. This is something that would help everyone not just you. If
> you want to advocate, I think working with the teacher or finding a
> new one is a more effective tack than trying to persuade the school to
> provide tutor service which isn't directly related to your disability.
> 
> Arielle
> 
>> On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
>> They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
>> particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
>> includes an aide, but not always.
>> 
>>> On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
>>> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
>>> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
>>> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
>>> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My
>>> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
>>> provide aids for students.
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> 


From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 01:03:31 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 20:03:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <C3E2F932-7768-4C44-B2BE-BE1CA37F9C69@fuse.net>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E2F932-7768-4C44-B2BE-BE1CA37F9C69@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9hKNN66AjdaqZCU84nYAbc+OjXR2SEa_bnXGO0d7Lav+A@mail.gmail.com>

I want to echo what Lillie suggested about looking into alternative
study materials. My Italian professor this semester is not that great
about verbalizing things either so I turned to looking things up on
the internet/bookshare/any resources I could. I find that as long as I
have the notes that everybody else gets, I'm not worse off than any
other student if I'm resourceful about my studying. You did mention
having an advanced student work as your note taker, I think this
should be a sufficient accommodation for your university to provide,
not the tutor however.
Minh

On 12/7/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> Instead of a tutor, you could try finding your own study materials.
> Textbooks for foreign languages often have vocabulary glossaries and explain
> grammar concepts. Many textbooks often have edition all independent study
> materials. This has worked for me in my Spanish classes. Hope this helps.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, it's hard to know if the reason you're struggling is because of
>> not seeing the pictures, or because the teacher is just not very good
>> at making the content user-friendly for anybody. I suspect that maybe
>> other students are also struggling in the class. Is it possible to get
>> a different teacher for the next two  quarters?
>>
>> In my own experience (majoring in biology, taking lots of science
>> classes along with foreign language) everything that was important was
>> either verbalized by the teacher or written down in the textbook, or
>> both. If something wasn't in the text and the teacher didn't verbalize
>> it it usually wasn't important. However, your particular teacher might
>> not be very good at verbalizing what is important. You may need to
>> meet with her several times and nudge her to make the verbal part of
>> her class more accessible to you, e.g. by spelling new words out loud
>> slowly. This is something that would help everyone not just you. If
>> you want to advocate, I think working with the teacher or finding a
>> new one is a more effective tack than trying to persuade the school to
>> provide tutor service which isn't directly related to your disability.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
>>> They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
>>> particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
>>> includes an aide, but not always.
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
>>>> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
>>>> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
>>>> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
>>>> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My
>>>> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
>>>> provide aids for students.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 06:57:39 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 01:57:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9hKNN66AjdaqZCU84nYAbc+OjXR2SEa_bnXGO0d7Lav+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E2F932-7768-4C44-B2BE-BE1CA37F9C69@fuse.net>
	<CAAJqG9hKNN66AjdaqZCU84nYAbc+OjXR2SEa_bnXGO0d7Lav+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZLNVxqjiTqWN+MMVUix2wuBMYb6YSG49Gz2BL76+NszQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Brandon,

Such is the life of a music major... running into these types of
problems with scheduling and classes getting in the way of each other.
 :)

I agree with Lillie, Arielle, and Minh on their suggestions on looking
things up on bookshare for yourself.  I don't know how far into your
language you are, but at this point looking for anything would help.
If you're just beginning, a basic book would be very good at
explaining everything.  I had to do as Minh described in a level III
Spanish class, and it was much more difficult to find an online
upper-level textbook than a basic one.

I don't know how much time you have left before your finals, but I
would try to meet with that advanced student, or someone who is
majoring in the language specifically, as much as possible between now
and then.  Which, by the way, brings up a fantastic suggestion; have
you looked for an upperclassman with that major who could tutor you on
a mutually convenient schedule?  That might be something to try for
the future.

Unfortunately, I am not sure about the requirements for aids.  At my
university disability resources can set up certain things like lab
assistants and notetakers for you, because they end up getting paid by
the Office of Learning Resources.  However, they will not specifically
set up aids or tutors.  You are free to hire your own readers and
tutors outside of what the university provides as you deem necessary
for your success, but you can't get those through the OLR itself.
But, my university is private, so there is a chance that they do even
what they do because they have the budget to foot the bill.  Have you
thought of paying a notetaker out of pocket and not going through the
university?  Even something like five dollars per week, or some sort
of transaction each class would be an improvement over $45 for the
entire quarterr.  Those kinds of deals might make them more willing to
take notes for you, and you would cut out the disability services
middle men.

Overall, if this professor is not working for you, I would try to find
a class with a different instructor.  See if you can talk to them
beforehand so that they have a perfectly clear understanding of what
you need from them before you even walk into their class.

On 12/7/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I want to echo what Lillie suggested about looking into alternative
> study materials. My Italian professor this semester is not that great
> about verbalizing things either so I turned to looking things up on
> the internet/bookshare/any resources I could. I find that as long as I
> have the notes that everybody else gets, I'm not worse off than any
> other student if I'm resourceful about my studying. You did mention
> having an advanced student work as your note taker, I think this
> should be a sufficient accommodation for your university to provide,
> not the tutor however.
> Minh
>
> On 12/7/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>> Instead of a tutor, you could try finding your own study materials.
>> Textbooks for foreign languages often have vocabulary glossaries and
>> explain
>> grammar concepts. Many textbooks often have edition all independent study
>> materials. This has worked for me in my Spanish classes. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, it's hard to know if the reason you're struggling is because of
>>> not seeing the pictures, or because the teacher is just not very good
>>> at making the content user-friendly for anybody. I suspect that maybe
>>> other students are also struggling in the class. Is it possible to get
>>> a different teacher for the next two  quarters?
>>>
>>> In my own experience (majoring in biology, taking lots of science
>>> classes along with foreign language) everything that was important was
>>> either verbalized by the teacher or written down in the textbook, or
>>> both. If something wasn't in the text and the teacher didn't verbalize
>>> it it usually wasn't important. However, your particular teacher might
>>> not be very good at verbalizing what is important. You may need to
>>> meet with her several times and nudge her to make the verbal part of
>>> her class more accessible to you, e.g. by spelling new words out loud
>>> slowly. This is something that would help everyone not just you. If
>>> you want to advocate, I think working with the teacher or finding a
>>> new one is a more effective tack than trying to persuade the school to
>>> provide tutor service which isn't directly related to your disability.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
>>>> They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
>>>> particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
>>>> includes an aide, but not always.
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
>>>>> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
>>>>> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
>>>>> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
>>>>> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well.
>>>>> My
>>>>> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
>>>>> provide aids for students.
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 07:24:33 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 02:24:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCF6_jaxk+dvn30m2c+peNP45MuzNygdE24rspc+cVETQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
	<CALAYQJCF6_jaxk+dvn30m2c+peNP45MuzNygdE24rspc+cVETQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZeQbuSb2XcTL3DPG_Go7n9S_7_ZTCTGXDj01E0-G1dHg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Elizabeth and all,

This is a really interesting discussion, and like everyone else who
has commented so far I've had quite a few experiences with this
myself.

This used to bother me a lot more when I was younger, and less secure
with myself.  I thought that others would judge me based on how much I
could or could not see, so I tended to be really defensive in reacting
to these situations.  But, I came to the realization that there are
basically 2 ways in which I can personally deal with these things.  I
can decide if I am comfortable with the person, or if they don't need
to know.  I only tell strangers things about my vision when there is
something to be gained from it.  While that might sound shady, I mean
that I tell them information when I ask for assistance in a public
place, (because I wear glasses and don't always walk with my cane
extended people don't always realize that I am blind).  I have had
experiences when I am sitting on a bus and someone will ask about me
in some way.  I've never had a random stranger specifically pry about
my vision, but it has happened on other topics like my notetaker or my
cane.  I make no great effort to educate them about the blind, or to
spout off NFB philosophy, but so long as they're friendly and just
seem curious I'll give them a brief explanation and be friendly about
it too.  Sometimes people are not judging you based on your vision,
but are just generally interested in something they've never seen
before.  And sometimes all they need is, "Oh, this is like a mini
computer, I'm reading a book on it now," or "All IPhones actually have
the speech software I'm using in it," will be enough to satisfy them.
On buses it can actually be a great way to pass the time, like when a
passenger has enough interest to try using VoiceOver on their phone,
or when I get to geek out over braille.

I have had arm grabbing experiences, in which I react in kind to the
arm grabber as Arielle does.  If they jostle me by grabbing my arm
unexpectedly I yank my arm away as abruptly as I can so I can move on
and get away.  If someone grabs and asks if they can help, (which
usually doesn't happen as I've gottnn more plain asking or arm
grabbing than both together), I'll take my arm away more gently and
politely decline the favor, without feeling the need to give an
explanation as to what I'm doing or how I'm going to do it.  If people
just ask, I just say I've got it and continue what I'm doing, and
usually the problem is solved then.

The one experience that has really tried me is when someone asked if I
needed healing.  I did not see them so I don't know if they were into
some different religion, but that is the only experience where it
really took a lot of my effort to keep my cool.  The absurdity of that
encounter got me more than anything else, but it probably wasn't
absurd to stop me on the street to ask if I needed healing to that
person.  I just try to remember that questions are part of the
minority territory; other people are going to have them.

What I've found for myself though is that I don't mind educating those
who are genuinely curious, or who say they don't know what to do for
their family member or child who is blind and really want to help them
become independent.  I love being able to help in that way.  Those who
seem to just not get it are perhaps those who could use the most
education, but I agree with you that, as much as I agree with the NFB
philosophies, it can be trying to deal with that as an individual and
especially as a busy college student with places to go.  (Those who
stop me on the street like that when I'm on a schedule are probably
getting my annoyance from them holding me up more than them asking
what I perceive as a ridiculous question).  I don't think that you owe
anyone an explanation that you don't want to provide one to, and that
saying something along the lines of that sort of thing being personal
information should suffice.

Just my thoughts.

On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> I think the answers you are getting reflect the fact that none of us
> really know what to say when this happens. We often just make
> something up on the fly and hope it's good enough. I struggle to give
> you advice because I have been in these situations and haven't figured
> out one good thing to say that is polite yet also gets my point across
> while also not taking up too much time. Seems like if someone asks if
> you are legally blind or blind, leaving it at "I'm blind" is perfectly
> fine. If the question is more detailed about what you can see, then
> your answer will depend on how much time you have with them and how
> much detail you feel comfortable sharing.
> For the arm-grab situations, I have come up with a pretty consistent
> formula for handling those. If the person grabs without saying a word
> to me,  then I simply pull my arm out of their grasp without saying a
> word to them. If the person says something like "let me help you"
> while grabbing then I pull out of their grasp while responding with
> "Please let go of me; thank you". I've found this allows me to
> maintain some politeness while also firmly conveying that I will not
> allow them to grab me. If time allows I may explain to the surprised
> grabber that it is actually more helpful to give verbal directions
> rather than grabbing and that grabbing interferes with my balance and
> increases my risk of tripping and falling (as I know from occasional
> experience). People seem surprised at first but generally accept this
> information.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 12/7/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Steve and all,
>>
>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>> questions
>> more to this email list.
>>
>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>> rather
>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>> street
>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>> eyesight
>>
>> to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the more
>> likely
>>
>> a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was not
>> mentioned
>>
>> in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing my arm thinking
>> I
>>
>> am in need of assistance when I am just going about the normal business
>> of
>> my life. I just never really know what to say to these people in some two
>> second interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity,
>> or
>>
>> to get them to leave me alone.
>>
>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>> based
>>
>> on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though most
>> people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in
>> their
>> lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being legally
>> blind
>>
>> and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I could
>> go
>>
>> about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like some
>> stupid
>> fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not know what to
>> say.
>>
>> I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to pose my
>> question.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>
>>> Elizabeth,
>>>
>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>> completely
>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>> even
>>>
>>> know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble
>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>> off
>>>
>>> one is.  What
>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>> than
>>>
>>> it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>> struggle
>>>
>>> with the
>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>> ways.
>>>
>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>> they
>>>
>>> meet
>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>> we
>>>
>>> try to
>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>
>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>> determine.
>>>
>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>> some
>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>> the
>>>
>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>> determines
>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>
>>>>On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>>><lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>>> Why
>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>> answer
>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>> know
>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>> figure
>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>>> and
>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>>> does
>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>> trying
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>> when
>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>>> deal
>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>
>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>> wrong
>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>> give
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>> day,
>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>> real
>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>> I
>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>> questions
>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From sgermano at asu.edu  Sun Dec  8 16:18:56 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 09:18:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA for public
	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <C534471D-C462-4C25-965C-1C8361F12038@yahoo.com>
References: <52A2B725.6080705@gmail.com>
	<C534471D-C462-4C25-965C-1C8361F12038@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avdtESKTUUAq_3=uc18sjk+xJEXYneFGCv8KvG_+idy1yw@mail.gmail.com>

Itstead of refering to the person as an aid say you need a notetaker for
the class and justify why. Is the person you need to help you acedically
understand the class which would be a tutor or help you access what you may
have missed by the teacher writing on the board but not saying what they
were writing?

Disabled students services cannot choose how to accomodate. They can't tell
me to use audible books when I am a large print user. At my school they
scan the books but there were some I said I would do better if I had it
large printed on 11 by 17 paper because questions refered to diagrams on
other pages and a physical book would be much more efficient. They gladly
printed it.

Tutors might be able to be paid for by rehab. My VR is done as supported ed
by Foundation for Blind Children. VR still funds everything but foundation
is like the middleman and I was told if I need a tutor one would be
provided.

I believe it is vety important to be able to justify why you are asking for
a service.

If it is an academic tutor you need most school do provide that through the
department.

On Saturday, December 7, 2013, Bobbi Pompey wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Your college is required to provide you with accommodations, but they can
> choose how to do so. For example, providing you with a test online instead
> of having someone read it to you.
> If they feel that you can access the materials through some other means,
> then they may not provide an actual person to age.
>
> I had a similar experience at my college, that is also state-funded.
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com <javascript:;>
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
> > On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs <
> brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I am taking a class at my college and the Accessibility services
> department insists the ADA doesn't say they need to provide an aid or tutor
> for me in a language class. In my last college I had aids for all my math
> and science classes. At this new college, language is just as hard and both
> colleges are state colleges.
> > I am wondering what is the deal with one giving aid and tutoring and the
> other firmly saying they don't need to?
> > I believe section 504 of the ADA is where all this is talked about.
> > This is from:
> > http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
> >
> > "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be
> excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination
> under" any program or activity that either receives Federal financial
> assistance"
> >
> > Isn't not providing eyes for a class that is focused on pictures
> discrimination? Then isn't not providing eyes for notes with pictures
> discrimination?
> >
> > "providing an opportunity to participate or benefit that is unequal to
> that provided others,"
> >
> > Despite the improper English, That means that I need to be able to be
> equal with my class mates in and out of class. In order for me to be able
> to ask the teacher questions, I need to be able to understand the materiel
> enough to ask questions.
> >
> > "providing different or separate benefits or services, unless it is
> necessary to provide benefits or services that are as effective as those
> provided to others."
> >
> > In this case it is necessary to provide a tutor so that I am able to
> completely understand lectures and complete assignments in a timely manor
> that helps me understand, like the assignments are supposed to do.
> >
> > "For benefits or services provided to be "equally effective," they must
> afford students with disabilities an equal opportunity to obtain the same
> result, gain the same benefit, or reach the same level of achievement as
> other students."
> >
> > Without a tutor and an aid, the class that I am in is not providing me
> with enough materials for me to succeed. I must have a tutor and an aid to
> both grasp what is talked about in class partly and to go over materiel
> after class to bridge any gaps I miss-understood or recorded wrong because
> the teacher was spelling too fast on the board.
> >
> > "have the effect of defeating or impairing accomplishment of the
> objectives of the education program"
> >
> > I am not learning my language, so I need help!
> >
> > "Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules,
> policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or
> providing aids, services, or assistive technology."
> >
> > HM, says I need an "Aid" right there... Not tutor though.
> >
> > http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm
> >
> > If that is not the section state colleges fall under, please let me
> know. Or if there are any other laws that I should know about, please let
> me know. Otherwise I will send this email to my counselors and their boss
> so they can see the quotes from the ADA.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Brandon Keith Biggs
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Sun Dec  8 16:34:46 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 09:34:46 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcAo3XzAMNeetMcouX3uZ340e8EF=14LfACb9zjfu3KNw@mail.gmail.com>

Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly I
would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick me
off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog
was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"

No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.

You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were educated
by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.

When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am legally
blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be such
an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their face.
I get the drug one because I squint.

The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness and
how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they will
be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
us to educate people.


On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Steve and all,
>
> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my questions
> more to this email list.
>
> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would rather
> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the street
> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the
> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was
> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing my
> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to these
> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully answer
> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>
> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in
> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being legally
> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not know
> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
> pose my question.
>
> Elizabeth
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>
>  Elizabeth,
>>
>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is completely
>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble
>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better off
>> one is.  What
>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>> struggle with the
>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other ways.
>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when they
>> meet
>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something we
>> try to
>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>
>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can determine.
>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to some
>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent the
>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public determines
>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson\
>>
>>  On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>
>>  Hello All,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>> Why
>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>> answer
>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not know
>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>> figure
>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>
>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>> and
>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything that
>>>> a
>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>> does
>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>
>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>> be
>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are trying
>>>> to
>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>> when
>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>> deal
>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>
>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>> wrong
>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>> give a
>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other day,
>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the real
>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So I
>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>> questions
>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 18:35:13 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:35:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcAo3XzAMNeetMcouX3uZ340e8EF=14LfACb9zjfu3KNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcAo3XzAMNeetMcouX3uZ340e8EF=14LfACb9zjfu3KNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaOhVc9Zc0+++Rhpr+9dajGOCFTp6e3siCojBb0bv2Fag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
more emphasis.

The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.

Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
questions.

My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
explanation isn't that hard to give.

On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly I
> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick me
> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog
> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>
> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>
> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were educated
> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>
> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am legally
> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be such
> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their face.
> I get the drug one because I squint.
>
> The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness and
> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they will
> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
> us to educate people.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello Steve and all,
>>
>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>> questions
>> more to this email list.
>>
>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>> rather
>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>> street
>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the
>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was
>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing
>> my
>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to these
>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>> answer
>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>>
>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in
>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>> legally
>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not
>> know
>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
>> pose my question.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>
>>  Elizabeth,
>>>
>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>> completely
>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>>> trouble
>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>> off
>>> one is.  What
>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>> struggle with the
>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>> ways.
>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>> they
>>> meet
>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>> we
>>> try to
>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>
>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>> determine.
>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>> some
>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>> the
>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>> determines
>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>> >wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Hello All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>>> Why
>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>> answer
>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>> know
>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>> figure
>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>>> and
>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>> that
>>>>> a
>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>>> does
>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>> trying
>>>>> to
>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>> when
>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>>> deal
>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>
>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>> wrong
>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>> give a
>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>> day,
>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>> real
>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>> I
>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>> questions
>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 20:28:03 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:28:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaOhVc9Zc0+++Rhpr+9dajGOCFTp6e3siCojBb0bv2Fag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcAo3XzAMNeetMcouX3uZ340e8EF=14LfACb9zjfu3KNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaOhVc9Zc0+++Rhpr+9dajGOCFTp6e3siCojBb0bv2Fag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C59D7545-A226-48EF-A689-C97A99A3652A@gmail.com>

Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my obligation to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it just comes with the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I recognize that, no matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind community and someways because, As ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire conception of blind people in general around me because I am the only blind person they have ever met, and of course this will completely shake the way these people treat other blind people in the future. Also, again going back to Katie, A lot of people just don't know any better at first but, given patients and a little bit of time, they start to understand that blindness isn't really even close to the life – defining disaster they originally assumed it was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn well see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for people who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live your life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from doing what you are trying to do… and of course The point at which this happens it's up to each individual person. It seems to be a very fine balancing act and I'll be totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
> more emphasis.
> 
> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
> or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
> parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
> do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
> sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
> 
> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
> have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
> in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
> same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
> class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
> totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
> had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
> dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
> braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
> educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
> gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
> the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
> questions.
> 
> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
> is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
> question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
> explanation isn't that hard to give.
> 
>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
>> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
>> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
>> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly I
>> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick me
>> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog
>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
>> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>> 
>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>> 
>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were educated
>> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>> 
>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
>> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am legally
>> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be such
>> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their face.
>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>> 
>> The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness and
>> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they will
>> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
>> us to educate people.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>> 
>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>>> questions
>>> more to this email list.
>>> 
>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>>> rather
>>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
>>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>>> street
>>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the
>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was
>>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing
>>> my
>>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
>>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to these
>>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>>> answer
>>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>>> 
>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
>>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in
>>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>>> legally
>>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
>>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not
>>> know
>>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
>>> pose my question.
>>> 
>>> Elizabeth
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>> 
>>> Elizabeth,
>>>> 
>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>>> completely
>>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>>>> trouble
>>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>>> off
>>>> one is.  What
>>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>>> struggle with the
>>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>>> ways.
>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>>> they
>>>> meet
>>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>>> we
>>>> try to
>>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>> 
>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>>> determine.
>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>>> some
>>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>>> the
>>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>>> determines
>>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>>>> Why
>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>>> answer
>>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>>> figure
>>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>>> trying
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>>>> deal
>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>>> give a
>>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>>> day,
>>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>>> questions
>>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Dec  8 22:00:07 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 15:00:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <C59D7545-A226-48EF-A689-C97A99A3652A@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<COL130-DS2079D618D0D17A0C4F888CBAD10@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcAo3XzAMNeetMcouX3uZ340e8EF=14LfACb9zjfu3KNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaOhVc9Zc0+++Rhpr+9dajGOCFTp6e3siCojBb0bv2Fag@mail.gmail.com>
	<C59D7545-A226-48EF-A689-C97A99A3652A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCyB7C4RXQOeDtf8VU38enV6VsrDniBBAWUvGJOQbKnKw@mail.gmail.com>

As always I think we need a balanced approach. It is correct that
people will often judge all blind people based  on their encounter
with one of us. However, worrying too much about the example you are
setting for all blind people can be unhealthy and counter-productive.
While I try to set a good example whenever I can, I also recognize
that I can't always control the example I am setting nor can I control
how others interpret it or what conclusions they draw from my
behavior. For example, I might insist on walking around the airport
independently, and some people may interpret that positively whereas
others may think I am trying too hard to prove my independence. As
human beings we often find ourselves with limited patience and
tolerance to respond to every question or comment that is thrown at
us. I try to set the best example possible while also trying not to
worry too much about how I am acting.

Arielle

On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this
> particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my obligation
> to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it just comes with
> the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I recognize that, no
> matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind community and someways
> because, As ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire
> conception of blind people in general around me because I am the only blind
> person they have ever met, and of course this will completely shake the way
> these people treat other blind people in the future. Also, again going back
> to Katie, A lot of people just don't know any better at first but, given
> patients and a little bit of time, they start to understand that blindness
> isn't really even close to the life – defining disaster they originally
> assumed it was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn
> well see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or
> desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for
> people who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my
> inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live your
> life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from doing what you
> are trying to do… and of course The point at which this happens it's up to
> each individual person. It seems to be a very fine balancing act and I'll be
> totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
>> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
>> more emphasis.
>>
>> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
>> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
>> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
>> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
>> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
>> or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
>> parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
>> do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
>> sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>>
>> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
>> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
>> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
>> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
>> have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
>> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
>> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
>> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
>> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
>> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
>> in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
>> same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
>> class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
>> totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
>> had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
>> dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
>> braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
>> educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
>> gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
>> the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
>> questions.
>>
>> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
>> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
>> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
>> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
>> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
>> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
>> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
>> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
>> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
>> is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
>> question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
>> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>>
>>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
>>> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
>>> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
>>> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly
>>> I
>>> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick
>>> me
>>> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide
>>> dog
>>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
>>> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>>>
>>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>>>
>>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were
>>> educated
>>> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>>>
>>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
>>> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am
>>> legally
>>> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be
>>> such
>>> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their
>>> face.
>>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>>>
>>> The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness
>>> and
>>> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they
>>> will
>>> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
>>> us to educate people.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>>>
>>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>>>> questions
>>>> more to this email list.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>>>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>>>> rather
>>>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions
>>>> and
>>>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>>>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>>>> street
>>>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>>>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>>>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>>>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has,
>>>> the
>>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one
>>>> was
>>>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing
>>>> my
>>>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
>>>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to
>>>> these
>>>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>>>> answer
>>>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>>>>
>>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>>>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
>>>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions
>>>> in
>>>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>>>> legally
>>>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
>>>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not
>>>> know
>>>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
>>>> pose my question.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>>
>>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>>>> completely
>>>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>>>>> trouble
>>>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>>>> off
>>>>> one is.  What
>>>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>>>> struggle with the
>>>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>>>> ways.
>>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>>>> they
>>>>> meet
>>>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a
>>>>> little
>>>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>>>> we
>>>>> try to
>>>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>>>
>>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>>>> determine.
>>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>>>> some
>>>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>>>> the
>>>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>>>> determines
>>>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer
>>>>>>> myself?
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted
>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>>>> give a
>>>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>>>> day,
>>>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From annajee82 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  9 00:31:34 2013
From: annajee82 at gmail.com (Anna Givens)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 18:31:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
In-Reply-To: <C59D7545-A226-48EF-A689-C97A99A3652A@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637687@mailback3.g2host.com>
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Elizabeth and all,
I think Steve spoke very well to this.  I am also partially sighted,
partially blind, low vision, visually impaired, legally blind,
blind.... whatever you want to call it.  It is harder for most people
to understand people with some vision who call themselves blind.  It
does seem to be expected of us with any vision, to struggle to use
what vision we have.  This is not just by sighted people but by the
blind as well.  It seems to be a widespread belief among all
populations that vision is to be used, if possible.  Obviously this is
to the detriment of those of us who are blind but also have some
vision.  People don't understand this.  Even as a blind person with
vision, myself, it has taken me a very long time to understand it
myself.
You do not have to take on the role of educating people about this.
It is not your job.  However, as I'm sure you realize, the less you
educate people, the less they will know.  I educate people when I can
because I want them to be educated when they meet the next blind
person in their life.  But if I don't have time or something, then I
don't.  It is not something I am obligated to do.  But like I said,
there are times that I can educate, and I do sometimes, for the sake
of others.
Now, if I understand your complaint, you are saying that strangers are
asking you how much you can see, or what your level of blindness is;
and you are asking what to do about this.  In my opinion, you are
correct- there is no need for that question.  That is not a matter of
educating a person about blindness, it is just people asking pointless
questions.  The only education they get from you telling them what you
can and cannot see is a fact about you that doesn't really matter.  If
there seems to be no reason for the question they are asking, I would
not respond.  Some people are just curious, I guess.  I wish I had an
example of the situation you are referring to.  But if someone is just
coming up to you on the street, and saying: "Are you  blind, or
legally blind?" or "How much can you see?", I  just say I am blind and
keep walking.  When I am dealing with people that I see on a regular
basis, I will inform them, if they have questions.  Because I feel
that it is helpful to everyone if they understand better what my
particular situation is.  But for a stranger, I do a lot of ignoring
as if I didn't hear them (which some people may think is rude, but I
don't), or I will say "no thank you" firmly, and clearly walk away
(especially if someone is doing the grabbing thing).  Give me some
more examples.  I tell people I am blind, and sometimes I will
purposely not use my vision just because it really doesn't matter.
Also, when people say things like "You must have some vision",
sometimes I educate them, depending on the situation, or I say "yes"
and keep walking, or sometimes I lie and say "nope" and keep walking.
Because yeah.......it just doesn't matter.  Another thing that is
possible is to ask them why they are asking.  And go from there.

Anna E Givens

On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this
> particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my obligation
> to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it just comes with
> the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I recognize that, no
> matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind community and someways
> because, As ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire
> conception of blind people in general around me because I am the only blind
> person they have ever met, and of course this will completely shake the way
> these people treat other blind people in the future. Also, again going back
> to Katie, A lot of people just don't know any better at first but, given
> patients and a little bit of time, they start to understand that blindness
> isn't really even close to the life – defining disaster they originally
> assumed it was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn
> well see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or
> desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for
> people who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my
> inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live your
> life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from doing what you
> are trying to do… and of course The point at which this happens it's up to
> each individual person. It seems to be a very fine balancing act and I'll be
> totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
>> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
>> more emphasis.
>>
>> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
>> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
>> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
>> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
>> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
>> or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
>> parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
>> do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
>> sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>>
>> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
>> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
>> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
>> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
>> have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
>> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
>> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
>> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
>> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
>> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
>> in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
>> same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
>> class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
>> totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
>> had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
>> dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
>> braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
>> educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
>> gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
>> the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
>> questions.
>>
>> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
>> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
>> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
>> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
>> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
>> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
>> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
>> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
>> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
>> is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
>> question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
>> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>>
>>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
>>> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
>>> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
>>> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly
>>> I
>>> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick
>>> me
>>> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide
>>> dog
>>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
>>> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>>>
>>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>>>
>>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were
>>> educated
>>> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>>>
>>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
>>> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am
>>> legally
>>> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be
>>> such
>>> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their
>>> face.
>>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>>>
>>> The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness
>>> and
>>> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they
>>> will
>>> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
>>> us to educate people.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>>>
>>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>>>> questions
>>>> more to this email list.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>>>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>>>> rather
>>>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions
>>>> and
>>>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>>>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>>>> street
>>>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>>>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>>>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>>>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has,
>>>> the
>>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one
>>>> was
>>>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing
>>>> my
>>>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
>>>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to
>>>> these
>>>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>>>> answer
>>>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>>>>
>>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>>>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
>>>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions
>>>> in
>>>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>>>> legally
>>>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
>>>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not
>>>> know
>>>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
>>>> pose my question.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>>
>>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>>>> completely
>>>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>>>>> trouble
>>>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>>>> off
>>>>> one is.  What
>>>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>>>> struggle with the
>>>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>>>> ways.
>>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>>>> they
>>>>> meet
>>>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a
>>>>> little
>>>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>>>> we
>>>>> try to
>>>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>>>
>>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>>>> determine.
>>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>>>> some
>>>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>>>> the
>>>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>>>> determines
>>>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer
>>>>>>> myself?
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted
>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>>>> give a
>>>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>>>> day,
>>>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>
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>


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Mon Dec  9 01:06:43 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 20:06:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fight for your rights
Message-ID: <E00127CADC0848F9B9B182CB0EA4875F@robert9999b7cf>

Do you know why rehab can get one over on blind stuidents? They do not know their rights as consumers.
Tips for fighting a disision from voc rehab
1 Keep all appointments with rehab, and request everything which pertains to your case in righting. This would Plans reports etc.
2 If you speak to your councilor on the tellephone concerning a question, emmatly follow up with an email. Note, Keep track of all emails incase if their is a problem later.
3 Read the vocational rehabilitation mannuel. This will have the policies rehab is to follow in your state. This can usually be found on your states vocational websight, but if not ask your councilor.
Had I known this in 2004, things might have turned out differently. Now that I am back with vocational rehabilitation, I make it my biziness to keep a close watch on what my states rehabilitation agency is doing.
RJ

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  9 01:57:26 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 20:57:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
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I do the exact same things Anna does; I just feel out the situation.   All
of us do.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anna Givens
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Elizabeth and all,
I think Steve spoke very well to this.  I am also partially sighted,
partially blind, low vision, visually impaired, legally blind, blind....
whatever you want to call it.  It is harder for most people to understand
people with some vision who call themselves blind.  It does seem to be
expected of us with any vision, to struggle to use what vision we have.
This is not just by sighted people but by the blind as well.  It seems to be
a widespread belief among all populations that vision is to be used, if
possible.  Obviously this is to the detriment of those of us who are blind
but also have some vision.  People don't understand this.  Even as a blind
person with vision, myself, it has taken me a very long time to understand
it myself.
You do not have to take on the role of educating people about this.
It is not your job.  However, as I'm sure you realize, the less you educate
people, the less they will know.  I educate people when I can because I want
them to be educated when they meet the next blind person in their life.  But
if I don't have time or something, then I don't.  It is not something I am
obligated to do.  But like I said, there are times that I can educate, and I
do sometimes, for the sake of others.
Now, if I understand your complaint, you are saying that strangers are
asking you how much you can see, or what your level of blindness is; and you
are asking what to do about this.  In my opinion, you are
correct- there is no need for that question.  That is not a matter of
educating a person about blindness, it is just people asking pointless
questions.  The only education they get from you telling them what you can
and cannot see is a fact about you that doesn't really matter.  If there
seems to be no reason for the question they are asking, I would not respond.
Some people are just curious, I guess.  I wish I had an example of the
situation you are referring to.  But if someone is just coming up to you on
the street, and saying: "Are you  blind, or legally blind?" or "How much can
you see?", I  just say I am blind and keep walking.  When I am dealing with
people that I see on a regular basis, I will inform them, if they have
questions.  Because I feel that it is helpful to everyone if they understand
better what my particular situation is.  But for a stranger, I do a lot of
ignoring as if I didn't hear them (which some people may think is rude, but
I don't), or I will say "no thank you" firmly, and clearly walk away
(especially if someone is doing the grabbing thing).  Give me some more
examples.  I tell people I am blind, and sometimes I will purposely not use
my vision just because it really doesn't matter.
Also, when people say things like "You must have some vision", sometimes I
educate them, depending on the situation, or I say "yes"
and keep walking, or sometimes I lie and say "nope" and keep walking.
Because yeah.......it just doesn't matter.  Another thing that is possible
is to ask them why they are asking.  And go from there.

Anna E Givens

On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this 
> particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my 
> obligation to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it 
> just comes with the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I 
> recognize that, no matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind 
> community and someways because, As ridiculous as this is, many people 
> will base their entire conception of blind people in general around me 
> because I am the only blind person they have ever met, and of course 
> this will completely shake the way these people treat other blind 
> people in the future. Also, again going back to Katie, A lot of people 
> just don't know any better at first but, given patients and a little 
> bit of time, they start to understand that blindness isn't really even 
> close to the life - defining disaster they originally assumed it was. 
> However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn well see fit, 
> and that means I don't always have the time or energy or desire to 
> answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for people 
> who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my 
> inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live 
> your life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from 
> doing what you are trying to do. and of course The point at which this 
> happens it's up to each individual person. It seems to be a very fine
balancing act and I'll be totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the
hang of it yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton 
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I 
>> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little 
>> more emphasis.
>>
>> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think 
>> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other 
>> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot 
>> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't 
>> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a 
>> cane, or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  
>> Our parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those 
>> who do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, 
>> and sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>>
>> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to 
>> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total 
>> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the 
>> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear 
>> to have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he 
>> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle 
>> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of 
>> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really 
>> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible 
>> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor 
>> laughed in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror 
>> and did the same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped 
>> me after class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was 
>> being totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and 
>> found we had some other classes together and lived on the same floor 
>> of our dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like 
>> JAWS, braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her 
>> questions and educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed 
>> her away and not gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a 
>> stranger to me in the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to 
>> answering questions.
>>
>> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the 
>> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they 
>> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and 
>> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority 
>> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language 
>> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and 
>> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the 
>> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a 
>> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep 
>> or is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when 
>> the question is harmless and the person is just curious a little 
>> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>>
>>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because 
>>> of our answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I 
>>> get these questions. My experience has been far worse then 
>>> questions. I spent my entire childhood being teased or rude comments 
>>> about my vision so frankly I would rather have someone ask me a 
>>> question then have a bus driver kick me off the bus because he did 
>>> not believe I was blind and thought my guide dog was fake because I 
>>> help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I paid. Or all the 
>>> shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>>>
>>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>>>
>>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were 
>>> educated by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>>>
>>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t 
>>> you afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I 
>>> am legally blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe 
>>> they won't be such an ass to the next person they see with a book 
>>> right up against their face.
>>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>>>
>>> The more that people understand about the different levels of 
>>> blindness and how we can all do things with our accommodations, the 
>>> more likely they will be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, 
>>> unfortunately it falls upon us to educate people.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>>>
>>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my 
>>>> questions more to this email list.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator 
>>>> of the blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. 
>>>> I would rather be able to go about living my life without the 
>>>> constant interruptions and interference by sighted people. I do not 
>>>> want to have to explain to some stranger standing with me on the 
>>>> street corner waiting to cross the street how much eyesight I have 
>>>> or how I am able to cross the street as a blind person. I do not 
>>>> want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am blind or 
>>>> legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of eyesight 
>>>> to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the 
>>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this 
>>>> one was not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want 
>>>> strangers grabbing my arm thinking I am in need of assistance when 
>>>> I am just going about the normal business of my life. I just never 
>>>> really know what to say to these people in some two second 
>>>> interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity, 
>>>> or to get them to leave me alone.
>>>>
>>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these 
>>>> kinds of questions from strangers, and could provide some 
>>>> suggestions as to how I could go about dealing with these kinds of 
>>>> people in my life. However, based on the responses I have received 
>>>> thus far, it would seem as though most people on this list have not 
>>>> encountered these kinds of questions in their lives, or believe 
>>>> there is some big distinction between being legally blind and 
>>>> blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I 
>>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look 
>>>> like some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I 
>>>> really do not know what to say. I am sorry if this email list was 
>>>> the wrong place for me to pose my question.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < 
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>>
>>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy 
>>>>> in the NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  
>>>>> It is completely normal for members of the public to not 
>>>>> understand what we believe or even know about it.  Also, the 
>>>>> public, in my experience, has more trouble understanding blind 
>>>>> people with some vision than those of us who are totally blind.  
>>>>> They do think that the more vision one has the better off one is.  
>>>>> What I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with 
>>>>> low vision than it is for me because they are so often told and 
>>>>> almost forced to struggle with the little vision they have rather 
>>>>> than to learn how to do things other ways.
>>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so 
>>>>> when they meet someone who can obviously see a little, they are 
>>>>> sometimes even a little suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  
>>>>> Our philosophy is something we try to teach people, it is not 
>>>>> something everyone knows already.
>>>>>
>>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can 
>>>>> determine.
>>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of 
>>>>> us to some degree.  Just because someone decides they are not 
>>>>> going to represent the blind doesn't stop them from doing just 
>>>>> that because the public determines how they get their information 
>>>>> not each of us.  We all need to keep working to change this, but 
>>>>> it is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke 
>>>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I even 
>>>>>>> answer a question that I really do not know how to answer 
>>>>>>> myself?
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort 
>>>>>>> of answer with a stranger I am most likely never going to see 
>>>>>>> again? I do not know why strangers are asking me if I am blind 
>>>>>>> or legally blind except to figure out how much I can see or not 
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when 
>>>>>>> the NFB teaches that blind people are really no different than 
>>>>>>> sighted people, and with the right tools and attitudes, we can 
>>>>>>> do pretty much anything that a sighted person can do. If these 
>>>>>>> beliefs are true, then what difference does it make as to how 
>>>>>>> much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they 
>>>>>>> are trying to imply that I must have some sight because how 
>>>>>>> could a person be able to function without any sight. It is 
>>>>>>> almost like people are trying to tell me that the more eyesight 
>>>>>>> a person has the better off they are in life. How exactly am I 
>>>>>>> suppose to deal with these kinds of questions when my encounter 
>>>>>>> with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not deal 
>>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is 
>>>>>>> the wrong thing, and I really do not know how to briefly 
>>>>>>> describe what I can and cannot see, or even wish to describe it 
>>>>>>> in the first place? I would give a specific example of how I 
>>>>>>> encountered this situation from the other day, but I am afraid 
>>>>>>> it would only spear the conversation away from the real heart of 
>>>>>>> the issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with 
>>>>>>> lately.  So I was just interested in how other people deal with 
>>>>>>> these kinds of questions from other people in their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40a
>>>>>>> su.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.
>>>> edu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40
>> gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> com
>

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From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Mon Dec  9 22:17:27 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 15:17:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.
References: <7f1eb.260f0923.3fd27ac6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A82C94E869544346AEAEA5275081E70B@HP30910210001>

thank you all for your words of encouragement.
I am still angry.
But I am going to use that anger as a motivator.
That is what keeps me going and getting through everything that I have 
experienced in my life.
It starts wednesday afternoon.
Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <NMPBRAT at aol.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] need to vent and very discouraged right now.


Hi Melissa,
I'm sorry that you had such an unfortunate experience but  don't let it get
you down or your hopes up.  It can be done.  I too  had a similar
experience with a rehab counselor who told me when I stated I  wanted to 
teach, he
said it was not considered a "blindness friendly field" and  that I needed 
to
look at other careers.  I essentially told him he was  wrong and that his
job was to assist me in whatever area I wanted to  pursue.  I told him that 
I
didn't want to have a job that I hated, simply  because it was "blindness
friendly".   He didn't like what I had to  say....and still didn't have a
great attitude....but he was forced to work with  me...that is, until I had 
the
fortunate experience of being moved to a  different rehab counselor who was
totally supportive of what I wanted to  do.
Fast forward....my degree is in Special Ed. but I have worked  and taught
both special ed. and regular ed. students over the years.  I am  currently 
in
my 12th year of teaching in the public schools.   I  actually got my
teaching job the following school year after I  graduated.  Yes, I was 
fortunate.
I don't want to say it  was easy...as I did quite a few interviews.....but
it wasn't impossible  either.  Yes, there were people I interviewed with
that I could tell just  by how they acted that they weren't too keen on a 
bind
teacher.  However,  that wasn't the case in every scenario.  In fact, I
actually turned down 2  teaching jobs before I accepted the third one (for
various reasons).  I  also have met other blind teachers who have also had
successful  careers.   And as far as finding a job....I know plenty of 
totally
able-bodied, well-educated people who have spent many years searching and
interviewing and can't get a teaching job.  So blind teachers or child care
workers are not the only ones who struggle sometimes to find a job.  The
success is more based upon other factors like education level, other 
employment
experience or volunteer experience (both of which helped me), the need for
teachers in general in the area where you apply for jobs,  etc.
I think someone else suggested that you research articles  about blind
individuals in the teaching field....and I think that was an  excellent 
idea.
You may just have to educate this individual about  how possible it is.
It is truly unfortunate that people in these positions have  the negative
attitudes about what is possible for individuals with disabilities  to be
successful at....I never have quite understood how or why they  end up in 
these
positions.
Just remember.....it's YOUR future.....and you need to make  sure to
advocate for yourself and what you want your future to be.  I have  never
regretted once what I said to the counselor I  had.  Although it isn't 
possible
because he is retired....I have often  wished I could go back and say to him
"Look at me  now!"
Don't give up.  It can be discouraging...I totally  understand....but do
not let it stop you!
Best wishes,
Nicole


In a message dated 12/5/2013 5:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lissa1531 at gmail.com writes:

Took a  napp and processed what happened too me today.  But I am still
bothered by this episode.  Read on if you like.
I was very  encouraged and hopeful yesterday during and after my meeting
with
the  devision of vocational rehabiletation.  Then this morning the job
specialest called me.
He basically told me that if I was hired by a  school or daycare center
that
does not serve blind children that I will  not find a job.  And that I
wasted
my time and rehab's money.   He also said that it will be a liability for
anyone to hire me.
this is  coming from someone who is suppose to believe in me and to be in
my
corner.  I don't think this is the case at all, and he hasn't even  met me.
Still upset and now discouraged.  But have to focus on  finishing school.
I have worked very hard and been through so much  hell.  I haven't given
up.
But But I want to give up and scream for a  while .
I was so mad.  I plan to tell him so wednesday during  our meeting.
But by then I plan to be calmed down and handle this with  dignety and
education and not anger.
thank you for reading and letting  me vent and share.
off to finish with school forever.
Best,
Melissa  Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
_______________________________________________
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From dburke at cocenter.org  Mon Dec  9 23:05:05 2013
From: dburke at cocenter.org (Dan Burke)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:05:05 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA
	forpublic	colleges?
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9hKNN66AjdaqZCU84nYAbc+OjXR2SEa_bnXGO0d7Lav+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000014637529@mailback3.g2host.com>
	<70F37140C9C24B6ABCC3E80716B45125@robert9999b7cf>
	<CABORmNssDUD8dB4UhSfY5AEWDeAuRb0oT6buZCN+Hpy-w2Mi_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<52A35A8D.5060604@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBqO-0FcOM-e2UHwvds_wdc1Mgp1gLT2W67-uP65_sz0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAUB4P6iO_MYvzTVMkeCQ4yEDGBmom5bSnU=SZmr-DFrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3E2F932-7768-4C44-B2BE-BE1CA37F9C69@fuse.net>
	<CAAJqG9hKNN66AjdaqZCU84nYAbc+OjXR2SEa_bnXGO0d7Lav+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1f56ffd578a43359b4714d78aee996f@SN2PR07MB094.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Brandon, You're in a tough position with your language class.  I have a friend who teaches French at the university where I used to work, and she talks about the latest theory in teaching second or third language - use visuals on the board or slides without ever speaking English.  This is all well and good for sighted students, but of no use to a blind student when the instructor points to a banana and asks you a question about it.  The accommodation should occur right then and there because the method inherently discriminates against the full participation of a blind student.  Whether that is in the form of someone slating out the Braille for "banana," of the teacher changing the method to ensure that you know what the visual depicts in every instance, or some other variation will depend on the class and level of instruction.  

To answer the matter of tutoring, tutoring is not included in the list of auxiliary aides that higher ed should be prepared to provide under Section 504. Here's what the regs say:

(2) Auxiliary aids may include taped texts, interpreters or other effective methods of making orally delivered materials available to students with hearing impairments, readers in libraries for students with visual impairments, classroom equipment adapted for use by students with manual impairments, and other similar services and actions. Recipients need not provide attendants, individually prescribed devices, readers for personal use or study, or other devices or services of a personal nature.

-- http://www2.ed.gov/policy/rights/reg/ocr/edlite-34cfr104.html#S44

Your guess is absolutely right - 504 regs for K-12 and higher ed are not the same, and what may go in K-12 for students with disabilities has absolutely no bearing on what higher ed is required or expected to do.

So, typically tutoring is not provided by Disability Services offices as a reasonable accommodation, even though some may do it.  Tutoring services on campus, however, must be accessible to and usable by students with disabilities; it's just not a modification that is a standard requirement.

Having said that, it can be provided, though it might get into the realm of being apersonal service.  

The other possibility, other accommodations notwithstanding, is that VR can pay for it.  

So you see, nothing is black or white in this case.

1. Call VR and talk to them about paying for tutoring because of the nature of the class.
2.  Talk to the teacher and the DS office about what would be a reasonable accommodation in a class structured this way.  Remember, it has to be accessible to you.  They need to think harder too.
3.  If you've already tried 2 without success, or you don't find success, investigate your school's due process options; that is a complaint.  One way is to ask - don't threaten - the DS office what your due process options might be.

Best,
Dan



Dan Burke
Academic and Youth Services
Colorado Center for the Blind
Take charge with confidence and self-reliance

www.cocenter.org
facebook.com/coloradocenterfortheblind
@CoCenter4Blind
www.youtube.com/user/cocenterorg

2233 W. Shepperd Ave.
Littleton, CO  80120
303-778-1130 ext. 213
Fax:  303-778-1598


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 6:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Is providing tutors or aids under the ADA forpublic colleges?

I want to echo what Lillie suggested about looking into alternative
study materials. My Italian professor this semester is not that great
about verbalizing things either so I turned to looking things up on
the internet/bookshare/any resources I could. I find that as long as I
have the notes that everybody else gets, I'm not worse off than any
other student if I'm resourceful about my studying. You did mention
having an advanced student work as your note taker, I think this
should be a sufficient accommodation for your university to provide,
not the tutor however.
Minh

On 12/7/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> Instead of a tutor, you could try finding your own study materials.
> Textbooks for foreign languages often have vocabulary glossaries and explain
> grammar concepts. Many textbooks often have edition all independent study
> materials. This has worked for me in my Spanish classes. Hope this helps.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 7, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, it's hard to know if the reason you're struggling is because of
>> not seeing the pictures, or because the teacher is just not very good
>> at making the content user-friendly for anybody. I suspect that maybe
>> other students are also struggling in the class. Is it possible to get
>> a different teacher for the next two  quarters?
>>
>> In my own experience (majoring in biology, taking lots of science
>> classes along with foreign language) everything that was important was
>> either verbalized by the teacher or written down in the textbook, or
>> both. If something wasn't in the text and the teacher didn't verbalize
>> it it usually wasn't important. However, your particular teacher might
>> not be very good at verbalizing what is important. You may need to
>> meet with her several times and nudge her to make the verbal part of
>> her class more accessible to you, e.g. by spelling new words out loud
>> slowly. This is something that would help everyone not just you. If
>> you want to advocate, I think working with the teacher or finding a
>> new one is a more effective tack than trying to persuade the school to
>> provide tutor service which isn't directly related to your disability.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>>> On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The K-12 schools aren't required to provide aides specifically.
>>> They're required to provide whatever the IEP team decides the
>>> particular student needs at that particular time. Often that plan
>>> includes an aide, but not always.
>>>
>>>> On 12/7/13, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If the part of the ADA I quoted is not the part the colleges follow, I
>>>> would love to know. Section 504  also deals with grade school and high
>>>> school, so much of the text says children rather than student.
>>>> If what I did quote is indeed what the colleges have to follow, I have
>>>> enough of a legal leverage to require an aid if not a tutor as well. My
>>>> mom works in the lower education schools and they are required to
>>>> provide aids for students.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

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From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 00:20:00 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 18:20:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
Message-ID: <CADUoy9s2g6KT5f1TmztN9cB7xhCEbB6Ro5rSFfA=kL0vUSTi4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
assignment.  Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on the
other.  My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
will be getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
going to figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
Icrewood center in Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree
in Assistive Tech.  I'd like to be the person when the state gets
people new equiptment who is paid to train them how to use it.  This
is a great list.


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Dec 10 00:35:17 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 00:35:17 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9s2g6KT5f1TmztN9cB7xhCEbB6Ro5rSFfA=kL0vUSTi4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADUoy9s2g6KT5f1TmztN9cB7xhCEbB6Ro5rSFfA=kL0vUSTi4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78da7df4774b40b8898acc7b9820f604@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Awesome!
Congratulations!
I'll graduate on Thursday!
I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the Assistive Tech program there.
That's the only good thing about that school!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua Hendrickson [louvins at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
To: nabs-l
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
assignment.  Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on the
other.  My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
will be getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
going to figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
Icrewood center in Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree
in Assistive Tech.  I'd like to be the person when the state gets
people new equiptment who is paid to train them how to use it.  This
is a great list.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 00:40:19 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <78da7df4774b40b8898acc7b9820f604@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CADUoy9s2g6KT5f1TmztN9cB7xhCEbB6Ro5rSFfA=kL0vUSTi4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<78da7df4774b40b8898acc7b9820f604@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000101cef540$6769c4a0$363d4de0$@gmail.com>

Great job.  Congradulations. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Awesome!
Congratulations!
I'll graduate on Thursday!
I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the Assistive Tech
program there.
That's the only good thing about that school!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua Hendrickson
[louvins at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
To: nabs-l
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science assignment.
Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on the other.
My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I will be
getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm going to
figure out where I'm going after I get some training from Icrewood center in
Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive Tech.  I'd
like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment who is paid
to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.o
nmicrosoft.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From andrewjedg at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 01:58:08 2013
From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 20:58:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
Message-ID: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all in this group not sure if you heard of it or not but leader
guide dogs does a 5 day orientation mobility training at the leader
dogs school in mishagan.
 I Has any of you done the 5 day training if so what did you think of it.


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 01:58:23 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:58:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
Message-ID: <52a6754a.ca41420a.521e.479e@mx.google.com>


Congradulations.  That's great.


Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Great job.  Congradulations.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Awesome!
Congratulations!
I'll graduate on Thursday!
I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the 
Assistive Tech
program there.
That's the only good thing about that school!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua 
Hendrickson
[louvins at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
To: nabs-l
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science 
assignment.
Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on 
the other.
My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I 
will be
getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm 
going to
figure out where I'm going after I get some training from 
Icrewood center in
Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive 
Tech.  I'd
like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment 
who is paid
to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0pccuaedu.o
nmicrosoft.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
ms2%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com


From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 02:24:26 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 20:24:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <52a6754a.ca41420a.521e.479e@mx.google.com>
References: <52a6754a.ca41420a.521e.479e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9s+HJvaNaeFu8R7gKRsx6dS1Twvqky=9XszwD3siYLuDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Marissa.  I'm sure you are not.  I hope you have good experiences
in high school.  That was an interesting time in my life.

On 12/9/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Congradulations.  That's great.
>
>
> Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> Great job.  Congradulations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> Awesome!
> Congratulations!
> I'll graduate on Thursday!
> I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
> I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
> You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the
> Assistive Tech
> program there.
> That's the only good thing about that school!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua
> Hendrickson
> [louvins at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
> To: nabs-l
> Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
> assignment.
> Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
> I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on
> the other.
> My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
> will be
> getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
> going to
> figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
> Icrewood center in
> Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive
> Tech.  I'd
> like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment
> who is paid
> to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0pccuaedu.o
> nmicrosoft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From JLester8462 at pccua.edu  Tue Dec 10 02:49:31 2013
From: JLester8462 at pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 02:49:31 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
In-Reply-To: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eb9d2ced03434ef9b245d138b6ee8062@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Andrew!
>From what I hear, it's a terrible school!
Go to Guiding Eyes for the Blind in MO!
Blessings, Joshua
________________________________________
From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Andrew [andrewjedg at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:58 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program

Hi all in this group not sure if you heard of it or not but leader
guide dogs does a 5 day orientation mobility training at the leader
dogs school in mishagan.
 I Has any of you done the 5 day training if so what did you think of it.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu


From jandart2 at aol.com  Tue Dec 10 03:03:25 2013
From: jandart2 at aol.com (Janice DeHart)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:03:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
In-Reply-To: <eb9d2ced03434ef9b245d138b6ee8062@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9d2ced03434ef9b245d138b6ee8062@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8CE8F5A7-5215-41AF-A69A-8554EF122A9B@aol.com>

The Accelerated Mobility Program Program is a seven day program.
Jan DeHart 
COMS

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Andrew!
> From what I hear, it's a terrible school!
> Go to Guiding Eyes for the Blind in MO!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Andrew [andrewjedg at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:58 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
> 
> Hi all in this group not sure if you heard of it or not but leader
> guide dogs does a 5 day orientation mobility training at the leader
> dogs school in mishagan.
> I Has any of you done the 5 day training if so what did you think of it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com


From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 04:05:47 2013
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:05:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...
Message-ID: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone:

First, I want to thank everyone for responding to my last post a
couple of weeks ago. You have no idea how much your responses helped
me. It truly made me feel better and encouraged me to know I am not
alone and others struggle as well. Your responses also made me think
about a lot of things, and made me realize how I could push myself
more.
I have a couple more questions. One thing I worked hahrd on in
training but still majorly struggle with is mental mapping. For me,
mental mapping is thinking about and really paying attention to where
I am going and the turns I make.
What often happens though is that if I am in a restaurant or somewhere
I will do well mental mapping part of where I need to go but will
forget one little detail. Then, because of that one little detail I
forget I will often get lost.
For example, if I am in a restaurant and I follow the hostess to my
seat I will often forget a turn or something and will get lost when
trying to find the door once it is time to leave.
Another example is if I am somewhere and I try to find the bathroom
often I will find the bathroom and then mess up getting back and find
myself lost unable to find my seat.
Or, I will go somewhere with someone and when we arive they will give
me good directions and I'll again remember most of it but then when it
is time to leave I will forget one little turn or thing and I'll go
the wrong way.
This makes me feel very embarrassed and awkward. I wish I had better
mental mapping skills and these types of things didn't happen. I
realize travel is not perfect, but I think in my mind I still feel
awkward and embarrassed when I get lost or don't know where to go.
Do others struggle with this mental mapping thing? Is it common to
forget one little thing when you aren't familiar with somewhere and
get lost?
What do you do in these situations and how do you keep from feeling
negative about them?
When I was in training if this happened the next day I would have
another travel class and would do something else and so would easily
move on and make up for whatever mistake I made the day before.
However, now that I don't get nearly as much practice and
oppportunities, when I don't do well mental mapping I feel negative.
Do you just have to tell yourself you will try harder next time and
laugh it off?
Another thing I struggle with is when I go to say a basketball game or
the mall or somewhere by myself sometimes I want/need someone to show
me where something is and or walk me to my seat and other times if
something is nearby I just want to get directions and try to
explore/find it on my own. I notice when I try to ask people to give
me directions though they often insist I walk with them or they take
me to where I am trying to go. This is sometimes fine, but I think it
would help my confidence a lot if sometimes I could just get
directions and try to go on my own.
When I was in training if i asked directions and the person wanted to
take me I would say"I am sorry but I am in training. I'm supposed to
just get directions."
However, now that I am not in training anymore when I try to ask for
directions and the person insists on taking me or walking with me I
don't know what to say. I'm not in training anymore so...
How do you handle this? Should I say something like "Actually, thank
you but I am trying to work on some skills I learned. Please just give
me directions."
What do you say to people so you can just get directions?
Thanks,
Kerri


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Tue Dec 10 04:37:41 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <52a6754a.ca41420a.521e.479e@mx.google.com>
References: <52a6754a.ca41420a.521e.479e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F6568FDB-B023-445A-99F4-E86F7C260F1E@fuse.net>

That's awesome about your degree.
Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I think.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Congradulations.  That's great.
> 
> 
> Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
> 
> Great job.  Congradulations.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
> 
> Awesome!
> Congratulations!
> I'll graduate on Thursday!
> I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
> I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
> You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the Assistive Tech
> program there.
> That's the only good thing about that school!
> Blessings, Joshua
> ________________________________________
> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua Hendrickson
> [louvins at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
> To: nabs-l
> Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
> 
> Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science assignment.
> Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
> I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on the other.
> My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I will be
> getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm going to
> figure out where I'm going after I get some training from Icrewood center in
> Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive Tech.  I'd
> like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment who is paid
> to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0pccuaedu.o
> nmicrosoft.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 04:41:05 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:41:05 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJByHtQDox4fjOiDJ1N_BHjEDS1uNzm6kGSHcQ3smXBKag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kerri,

I've frequently experienced both the situations you describe. The
first often happens to me if I get distracted while trying to map a
route. This is especially likely at the end of the route like when I'm
about to sit down at the table at a restaurant or in my seat in a
classroom. Unfortunately, if you forget the last step in the route
that step is usually the first step for the return trip, so this can
make mapping out the return route particularly difficult. I've tried
to make a more conscious effort

On 12/9/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>
> First, I want to thank everyone for responding to my last post a
> couple of weeks ago. You have no idea how much your responses helped
> me. It truly made me feel better and encouraged me to know I am not
> alone and others struggle as well. Your responses also made me think
> about a lot of things, and made me realize how I could push myself
> more.
> I have a couple more questions. One thing I worked hahrd on in
> training but still majorly struggle with is mental mapping. For me,
> mental mapping is thinking about and really paying attention to where
> I am going and the turns I make.
> What often happens though is that if I am in a restaurant or somewhere
> I will do well mental mapping part of where I need to go but will
> forget one little detail. Then, because of that one little detail I
> forget I will often get lost.
> For example, if I am in a restaurant and I follow the hostess to my
> seat I will often forget a turn or something and will get lost when
> trying to find the door once it is time to leave.
> Another example is if I am somewhere and I try to find the bathroom
> often I will find the bathroom and then mess up getting back and find
> myself lost unable to find my seat.
> Or, I will go somewhere with someone and when we arive they will give
> me good directions and I'll again remember most of it but then when it
> is time to leave I will forget one little turn or thing and I'll go
> the wrong way.
> This makes me feel very embarrassed and awkward. I wish I had better
> mental mapping skills and these types of things didn't happen. I
> realize travel is not perfect, but I think in my mind I still feel
> awkward and embarrassed when I get lost or don't know where to go.
> Do others struggle with this mental mapping thing? Is it common to
> forget one little thing when you aren't familiar with somewhere and
> get lost?
> What do you do in these situations and how do you keep from feeling
> negative about them?
> When I was in training if this happened the next day I would have
> another travel class and would do something else and so would easily
> move on and make up for whatever mistake I made the day before.
> However, now that I don't get nearly as much practice and
> oppportunities, when I don't do well mental mapping I feel negative.
> Do you just have to tell yourself you will try harder next time and
> laugh it off?
> Another thing I struggle with is when I go to say a basketball game or
> the mall or somewhere by myself sometimes I want/need someone to show
> me where something is and or walk me to my seat and other times if
> something is nearby I just want to get directions and try to
> explore/find it on my own. I notice when I try to ask people to give
> me directions though they often insist I walk with them or they take
> me to where I am trying to go. This is sometimes fine, but I think it
> would help my confidence a lot if sometimes I could just get
> directions and try to go on my own.
> When I was in training if i asked directions and the person wanted to
> take me I would say"I am sorry but I am in training. I'm supposed to
> just get directions."
> However, now that I am not in training anymore when I try to ask for
> directions and the person insists on taking me or walking with me I
> don't know what to say. I'm not in training anymore so...
> How do you handle this? Should I say something like "Actually, thank
> you but I am trying to work on some skills I learned. Please just give
> me directions."
> What do you say to people so you can just get directions?
> Thanks,
> Kerri
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 04:52:24 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:52:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJByHtQDox4fjOiDJ1N_BHjEDS1uNzm6kGSHcQ3smXBKag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJByHtQDox4fjOiDJ1N_BHjEDS1uNzm6kGSHcQ3smXBKag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAXcbrfG2g1+qC2obxyfk+XAEV78j_XWdXZosc0yBdRmw@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for the premature send. What I was saying was that I've
tried to make a conscious effort to pay extra attention to the last
part of a route since that's the first part of the return route. Also
if you can get close, even if you mess up a step, you can often still
figure it out by looking for other clues. For example, if trying to
find the door and you get close enough, you may be able to feel cold
air coming in through the door or notice sound changes that signal you
are near the door. However, I've learned that sometimes I just have to
request a little assistance if I get turned around. I suspect that the
mental-mapping problems you describe are quite common and that most of
us have experienced them at least occasionally.

Regarding your second question, usually if I want someone to give me
directions rather than guiding it's because I want to learn the
directions for future reference if I go to the place again or at least
to be able to find my way back independently. I will often say "thanks
but I would rather you give me directions so I can try to learn how to
get there for next time I  go there" or some such. Most people accept
this. If I am going somewhere I know I  will not be returning to, then
I will usually accept an escort if that is offered because it is more
convenient and there is less need for me to learn where I  am going if
I won't be going there again. I think many sighted  people just don't
have faith in their own ability to give directions and they think the
best way for them to help is by escorting or guiding.
When I first got out of training I worried a lot about losing my
skills if I accepted too much sighted guide or other assistance. Over
the years I've learned that the skills really don't go away that fast.
I can spend a week or two at my parents' or my in-laws' house (where
I'm really not traveling much of anywhere)  and then be able to pick
up the independent travel right away at the airport coming home. I
think it would take several years of no travel at all for those skills
to dry up considerably. As long as you are traveling independently on
a periodic basis, I think it is fine to occasionally accept assistance
or go somewhere without paying close attention to the route. I think
the more important thing is to be able to get where you  want to go in
an efficient way and to be able to handle problems as they come up.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/9/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kerri,
>
> I've frequently experienced both the situations you describe. The
> first often happens to me if I get distracted while trying to map a
> route. This is especially likely at the end of the route like when I'm
> about to sit down at the table at a restaurant or in my seat in a
> classroom. Unfortunately, if you forget the last step in the route
> that step is usually the first step for the return trip, so this can
> make mapping out the return route particularly difficult. I've tried
> to make a more conscious effort
>
> On 12/9/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone:
>>
>> First, I want to thank everyone for responding to my last post a
>> couple of weeks ago. You have no idea how much your responses helped
>> me. It truly made me feel better and encouraged me to know I am not
>> alone and others struggle as well. Your responses also made me think
>> about a lot of things, and made me realize how I could push myself
>> more.
>> I have a couple more questions. One thing I worked hahrd on in
>> training but still majorly struggle with is mental mapping. For me,
>> mental mapping is thinking about and really paying attention to where
>> I am going and the turns I make.
>> What often happens though is that if I am in a restaurant or somewhere
>> I will do well mental mapping part of where I need to go but will
>> forget one little detail. Then, because of that one little detail I
>> forget I will often get lost.
>> For example, if I am in a restaurant and I follow the hostess to my
>> seat I will often forget a turn or something and will get lost when
>> trying to find the door once it is time to leave.
>> Another example is if I am somewhere and I try to find the bathroom
>> often I will find the bathroom and then mess up getting back and find
>> myself lost unable to find my seat.
>> Or, I will go somewhere with someone and when we arive they will give
>> me good directions and I'll again remember most of it but then when it
>> is time to leave I will forget one little turn or thing and I'll go
>> the wrong way.
>> This makes me feel very embarrassed and awkward. I wish I had better
>> mental mapping skills and these types of things didn't happen. I
>> realize travel is not perfect, but I think in my mind I still feel
>> awkward and embarrassed when I get lost or don't know where to go.
>> Do others struggle with this mental mapping thing? Is it common to
>> forget one little thing when you aren't familiar with somewhere and
>> get lost?
>> What do you do in these situations and how do you keep from feeling
>> negative about them?
>> When I was in training if this happened the next day I would have
>> another travel class and would do something else and so would easily
>> move on and make up for whatever mistake I made the day before.
>> However, now that I don't get nearly as much practice and
>> oppportunities, when I don't do well mental mapping I feel negative.
>> Do you just have to tell yourself you will try harder next time and
>> laugh it off?
>> Another thing I struggle with is when I go to say a basketball game or
>> the mall or somewhere by myself sometimes I want/need someone to show
>> me where something is and or walk me to my seat and other times if
>> something is nearby I just want to get directions and try to
>> explore/find it on my own. I notice when I try to ask people to give
>> me directions though they often insist I walk with them or they take
>> me to where I am trying to go. This is sometimes fine, but I think it
>> would help my confidence a lot if sometimes I could just get
>> directions and try to go on my own.
>> When I was in training if i asked directions and the person wanted to
>> take me I would say"I am sorry but I am in training. I'm supposed to
>> just get directions."
>> However, now that I am not in training anymore when I try to ask for
>> directions and the person insists on taking me or walking with me I
>> don't know what to say. I'm not in training anymore so...
>> How do you handle this? Should I say something like "Actually, thank
>> you but I am trying to work on some skills I learned. Please just give
>> me directions."
>> What do you say to people so you can just get directions?
>> Thanks,
>> Kerri
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 13:04:23 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:04:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
Message-ID: <52a71164.a8df440a.3da6.21e9@mx.google.com>


I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People 
are interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's 
not a word) lol
I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out for 
the school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, 
I'll be in the lunchtime rally.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

That's awesome about your degree.
Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I 
think.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Congradulations.  That's great.


 Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Great job.  Congradulations.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Joshua Lester
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
 To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Awesome!
 Congratulations!
 I'll graduate on Thursday!
 I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
 I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
 You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the 
Assistive Tech
 program there.
 That's the only good thing about that school!
 Blessings, Joshua
 ________________________________________
 From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua 
Hendrickson
 [louvins at gmail.com]
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
 To: nabs-l
 Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science 
assignment.
 Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
 I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on 
the other.
 My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I 
will be
 getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm 
going to
 figure out where I'm going after I get some training from 
Icrewood center in
 Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive 
Tech.  I'd
 like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment 
who is paid
 to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0pccuaedu.o
 nmicrosoft.com

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 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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 ms2%40gmail
 .com


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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 ife7%40gmail.com

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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
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ton%40fuse.net

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for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 13:06:29 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:06:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <52a71164.a8df440a.3da6.21e9@mx.google.com>
References: <52a71164.a8df440a.3da6.21e9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <00ce01cef5a8$a4c4b9f0$ee4e2dd0$@gmail.com>

Overinterested sounds like a word to me!  Grin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of marissa
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here


I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People are
interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's not a word) lol
I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out for the
school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, I'll be in the
lunchtime rally.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

That's awesome about your degree.
Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I think.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Congradulations.  That's great.


 Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Great job.  Congradulations.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Joshua Lester
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
 To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Awesome!
 Congratulations!
 I'll graduate on Thursday!
 I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
 I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
 You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the 
Assistive Tech
 program there.
 That's the only good thing about that school!
 Blessings, Joshua
 ________________________________________
 From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua 
Hendrickson
 [louvins at gmail.com]
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
 To: nabs-l
 Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science 
assignment.
 Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
 I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on 
the other.
 My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I 
will be
 getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm 
going to
 figure out where I'm going after I get some training from 
Icrewood center in
 Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive 
Tech.  I'd
 like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment 
who is paid
 to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0pccuaedu.o
 nmicrosoft.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
 ms2%40gmail
 .com


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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 ife7%40gmail.com

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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 13:45:09 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 05:45:09 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
Message-ID: <52a71af2.43da440a.0aff.1b9b@mx.google.com>


lol I think I made up a new word.  So did my math teacher.  We 
were looking at points and had to guess where they cross.  He was 
reading steps on how to do it and we were writing them down.  He 
was supposed to say, "Estimate the point." and he said, 
"Estimoit." lol
Got the entire class laughing.  o and I'm the only blind person 
at my school.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:06:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Overinterested sounds like a word to me!  Grin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
marissa
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here


I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People 
are
interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's not 
a word) lol
I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out for 
the
school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, I'll be 
in the
lunchtime rally.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

That's awesome about your degree.
Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I 
think.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Congradulations.  That's great.


 Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Great job.  Congradulations.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Joshua Lester
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
 To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Awesome!
 Congratulations!
 I'll graduate on Thursday!
 I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
 I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
 You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the
Assistive Tech
 program there.
 That's the only good thing about that school!
 Blessings, Joshua
 ________________________________________
 From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua
Hendrickson
 [louvins at gmail.com]
 Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
 To: nabs-l
 Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
assignment.
 Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
 I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on
the other.
 My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
will be
 getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
going to
 figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
Icrewood center in
 Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive
Tech.  I'd
 like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment
who is paid
 to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0pccuaedu.o
 nmicrosoft.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

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 ms2%40gmail
 .com


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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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 ife7%40gmail.com

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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 15:38:54 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:38:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <52a71af2.43da440a.0aff.1b9b@mx.google.com>
References: <52a71af2.43da440a.0aff.1b9b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nocef-pK38FEk7Pqh73Lc29VXK9PidUSxDF1ExXc=S0w@mail.gmail.com>

Overinterested is a word, but it's hyphinated, so it's
"over-interested".  And congrats on the associates degree.  WSB has a
great ATI program; I speak from experience, as I was there in that
program during one of its hardest times.  A masters degree would be
good, though, as that is what you'll need to get a job.  To be honest,
it is a little sad.  Most jobs these days require college degrees
(bachelors or masters) which, I think, is a great thing, but the
problem is that many of the people who have those degrees really don't
qualify for the jobs they hold.

Regards,

Ryan

On 12/10/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> lol I think I made up a new word.  So did my math teacher.  We
> were looking at points and had to guess where they cross.  He was
> reading steps on how to do it and we were writing them down.  He
> was supposed to say, "Estimate the point." and he said,
> "Estimoit." lol
> Got the entire class laughing.  o and I'm the only blind person
> at my school.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:06:29 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> Overinterested sounds like a word to me!  Grin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> marissa
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:04 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>
> I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People
> are
> interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's not
> a word) lol
> I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out for
> the
> school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, I'll be
> in the
> lunchtime rally.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> That's awesome about your degree.
> Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I
> think.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Congradulations.  That's great.
>
>
>  Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>  To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>  Great job.  Congradulations.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Lester
>  Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
>  To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>  Awesome!
>  Congratulations!
>  I'll graduate on Thursday!
>  I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
>  I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
>  You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the
> Assistive Tech
>  program there.
>  That's the only good thing about that school!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>  ________________________________________
>  From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua
> Hendrickson
>  [louvins at gmail.com]
>  Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
>  To: nabs-l
>  Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>  Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
> assignment.
>  Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
>  I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on
> the other.
>  My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
> will be
>  getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
> going to
>  figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
> Icrewood center in
>  Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive
> Tech.  I'd
>  like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment
> who is paid
>  to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>  0pccuaedu.o
>  nmicrosoft.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
>  ms2%40gmail
>  .com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>  ife7%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
> ton%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
> ms2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 22:09:10 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 14:09:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
Message-ID: <52a79113.6cf5420a.3af5.ffffa0c0@mx.google.com>


Aw man.  Thought I made up a new word.  lol


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:38:54 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

Overinterested is a word, but it's hyphinated, so it's
"over-interested".  And congrats on the associates degree.  WSB 
has a
great ATI program; I speak from experience, as I was there in 
that
program during one of its hardest times.  A masters degree would 
be
good, though, as that is what you'll need to get a job.  To be 
honest,
it is a little sad.  Most jobs these days require college degrees
(bachelors or masters) which, I think, is a great thing, but the
problem is that many of the people who have those degrees really 
don't
qualify for the jobs they hold.

Regards,

Ryan

On 12/10/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 lol I think I made up a new word.  So did my math teacher.  We
 were looking at points and had to guess where they cross.  He 
was
 reading steps on how to do it and we were writing them down.  He
 was supposed to say, "Estimate the point." and he said,
 "Estimoit." lol
 Got the entire class laughing.  o and I'm the only blind person
 at my school.


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:06:29 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 Overinterested sounds like a word to me!  Grin.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 marissa
 Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:04 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here


 I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People
 are
 interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's not
 a word) lol
 I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out 
for
 the
 school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, I'll 
be
 in the
 lunchtime rally.


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

 That's awesome about your degree.
 Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I
 think.

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


  Congradulations.  That's great.


  Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
  To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

  Great job.  Congradulations.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 Joshua Lester
  Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
  To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

  Awesome!
  Congratulations!
  I'll graduate on Thursday!
  I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
  I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
  You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the
 Assistive Tech
  program there.
  That's the only good thing about that school!
  Blessings, Joshua
  ________________________________________
  From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua
 Hendrickson
  [louvins at gmail.com]
  Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
  To: nabs-l
  Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here

  Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
 assignment.
  Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
  I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on
 the other.
  My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
 will be
  getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
 going to
  figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
 Icrewood center in
  Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive
 Tech.  I'd
  like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment
 who is paid
  to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
  0pccuaedu.o
  nmicrosoft.com

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.willia
  ms2%40gmail
  .com


  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
  ife7%40gmail.com

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
 ton%40fuse.net

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
 ife7%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for
 nabs-l:
 
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 ms2%40gmail
 .com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
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 ife7%40gmail.com

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 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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ra%40gmail.com



--
Ryan L.  Silveira

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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ife7%40gmail.com


From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 22:45:00 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:45:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
In-Reply-To: <52a79113.6cf5420a.3af5.ffffa0c0@mx.google.com>
References: <52a79113.6cf5420a.3af5.ffffa0c0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9v+9pvxbqvqv_yDc+_Q0Ew6jcZov1W5aOR8wab67aHmUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to Marissa and all.  I was also the only blind person at my school.
 I don't think I'd like to get a masters degree, but at least a
bachelors degree.  It all depends on where I decide to go to finish my
schooling.  I know my state will pay for at least three more years of
schooling.  This is nice since I won't have to pay for college loans
and all that sort of thing.  Marissa, its nice to see a fellow
musician on this list.  What instrument do you play?  I'm a guitar
player, and I sing songs and perform for different churches and have
sung at coffee houses, and have also sung for nursing homes, and
different lions clubs.  Everyone, keep up the good work, and don't let
anyone push you around. Be your own advocate and ask for any help you
may need.

On 12/10/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Aw man.  Thought I made up a new word.  lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:38:54 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
> Overinterested is a word, but it's hyphinated, so it's
> "over-interested".  And congrats on the associates degree.  WSB
> has a
> great ATI program; I speak from experience, as I was there in
> that
> program during one of its hardest times.  A masters degree would
> be
> good, though, as that is what you'll need to get a job.  To be
> honest,
> it is a little sad.  Most jobs these days require college degrees
> (bachelors or masters) which, I think, is a great thing, but the
> problem is that many of the people who have those degrees really
> don't
> qualify for the jobs they hold.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/10/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  lol I think I made up a new word.  So did my math teacher.  We
>  were looking at points and had to guess where they cross.  He
> was
>  reading steps on how to do it and we were writing them down.  He
>  was supposed to say, "Estimate the point." and he said,
>  "Estimoit." lol
>  Got the entire class laughing.  o and I'm the only blind person
>  at my school.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>  To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 08:06:29 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>  Overinterested sounds like a word to me!  Grin.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>  marissa
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:04 AM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>
>  I like high school.  I'm in 9th grade.  It's going good.  People
>  are
>  interested in me, but not overinterested (don't care if it's not
>  a word) lol
>  I'm in the school band, which is cool.  I am going to try out
> for
>  the
>  school's fine arts in a few days I think.  And if I pass, I'll
> be
>  in the
>  lunchtime rally.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 23:37:41 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>  That's awesome about your degree.
>  Marissa, I am in high school as well and so are a few others I
>  think.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>   On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:58 PM, marissa
>  <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>   Congradulations.  That's great.
>
>
>   Seriously, Am I the only high schooler on this list?
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com
>   To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 19:40:19 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>   Great job.  Congradulations.
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>  Joshua Lester
>   Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:35 PM
>   To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
>  mailing list
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>   Awesome!
>   Congratulations!
>   I'll graduate on Thursday!
>   I'm still here, because my Mac didn't work when I bought it.
>   I'm getting it replaced on Wednesday, then I'll unsubscribe.
>   You can skip all of that mess, and go to WSB and get in the
>  Assistive Tech
>   program there.
>   That's the only good thing about that school!
>   Blessings, Joshua
>   ________________________________________
>   From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Joshua
>  Hendrickson
>   [louvins at gmail.com]
>   Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:20 PM
>   To: nabs-l
>   Subject: [nabs-l] associates degree is here
>
>   Hi to all.  A few days ago, I submitted my last online science
>  assignment.
>   Today I received my grades for my last two assignments.
>   I received perfect scores on both.  A fifty on one and a 15 on
>  the other.
>   My final grade for the class is 87.4%.  This coming January, I
>  will be
>   getting my associates degree.  I will stay on this list as I'm
>  going to
>   figure out where I'm going after I get some training from
>  Icrewood center in
>   Chicago.  I'm thinking of getting a masters degree in Assistive
>  Tech.  I'd
>   like to be the person when the state gets people new equiptment
>  who is paid
>   to train them how to use it.  This is a great list.
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  info for
>   nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 22:48:14 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 16:48:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...
Message-ID: <52a79a36.e8ddec0a.04de.ffffb6f5@mx.google.com>

This wouldn't help with getting to a seat in a restaurant or in a 
classroom but what I do for long, complex routes that I travel 
often is write down the directions. Then, if I'm traveling this 
route and get distracted or take a wrong turn, I can refer to my 
written directions and find my path again. Also, for finding 
seats in crowded places, it's not always necessary to know 
exactly where your seat is. In my experience, it's relatively 
easy to find the door of a restaurant or classroom based on the 
sounds of people coming and going or the feel of the air.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 21:52:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...

Apologies for the premature send. What I was saying was that I've
tried to make a conscious effort to pay extra attention to the 
last
part of a route since that's the first part of the return route. 
Also
if you can get close, even if you mess up a step, you can often 
still
figure it out by looking for other clues. For example, if trying 
to
find the door and you get close enough, you may be able to feel 
cold
air coming in through the door or notice sound changes that 
signal you
are near the door. However, I've learned that sometimes I just 
have to
request a little assistance if I get turned around. I suspect 
that the
mental-mapping problems you describe are quite common and that 
most of
us have experienced them at least occasionally.

Regarding your second question, usually if I want someone to give 
me
directions rather than guiding it's because I want to learn the
directions for future reference if I go to the place again or at 
least
to be able to find my way back independently. I will often say 
"thanks
but I would rather you give me directions so I can try to learn 
how to
get there for next time I  go there" or some such. Most people 
accept
this. If I am going somewhere I know I  will not be returning to, 
then
I will usually accept an escort if that is offered because it is 
more
convenient and there is less need for me to learn where I  am 
going if
I won't be going there again. I think many sighted  people just 
don't
have faith in their own ability to give directions and they think 
the
best way for them to help is by escorting or guiding.
When I first got out of training I worried a lot about losing my
skills if I accepted too much sighted guide or other assistance. 
Over
the years I've learned that the skills really don't go away that 
fast.
I can spend a week or two at my parents' or my in-laws' house 
(where
I'm really not traveling much of anywhere)  and then be able to 
pick
up the independent travel right away at the airport coming home. 
I
think it would take several years of no travel at all for those 
skills
to dry up considerably. As long as you are traveling 
independently on
a periodic basis, I think it is fine to occasionally accept 
assistance
or go somewhere without paying close attention to the route. I 
think
the more important thing is to be able to get where you  want to 
go in
an efficient way and to be able to handle problems as they come 
up.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/9/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Kerri,

 I've frequently experienced both the situations you describe. 
The
 first often happens to me if I get distracted while trying to 
map a
 route. This is especially likely at the end of the route like 
when I'm
 about to sit down at the table at a restaurant or in my seat in 
a
 classroom. Unfortunately, if you forget the last step in the 
route
 that step is usually the first step for the return trip, so this 
can
 make mapping out the return route particularly difficult. I've 
tried
 to make a more conscious effort

 On 12/9/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Everyone:

 First, I want to thank everyone for responding to my last post a
 couple of weeks ago. You have no idea how much your responses 
helped
 me. It truly made me feel better and encouraged me to know I am 
not
 alone and others struggle as well. Your responses also made me 
think
 about a lot of things, and made me realize how I could push 
myself
 more.
 I have a couple more questions. One thing I worked hahrd on in
 training but still majorly struggle with is mental mapping. For 
me,
 mental mapping is thinking about and really paying attention to 
where
 I am going and the turns I make.
 What often happens though is that if I am in a restaurant or 
somewhere
 I will do well mental mapping part of where I need to go but 
will
 forget one little detail. Then, because of that one little 
detail I
 forget I will often get lost.
 For example, if I am in a restaurant and I follow the hostess to 
my
 seat I will often forget a turn or something and will get lost 
when
 trying to find the door once it is time to leave.
 Another example is if I am somewhere and I try to find the 
bathroom
 often I will find the bathroom and then mess up getting back and 
find
 myself lost unable to find my seat.
 Or, I will go somewhere with someone and when we arive they will 
give
 me good directions and I'll again remember most of it but then 
when it
 is time to leave I will forget one little turn or thing and I'll 
go
 the wrong way.
 This makes me feel very embarrassed and awkward. I wish I had 
better
 mental mapping skills and these types of things didn't happen. I
 realize travel is not perfect, but I think in my mind I still 
feel
 awkward and embarrassed when I get lost or don't know where to 
go.
 Do others struggle with this mental mapping thing? Is it common 
to
 forget one little thing when you aren't familiar with somewhere 
and
 get lost?
 What do you do in these situations and how do you keep from 
feeling
 negative about them?
 When I was in training if this happened the next day I would 
have
 another travel class and would do something else and so would 
easily
 move on and make up for whatever mistake I made the day before.
 However, now that I don't get nearly as much practice and
 oppportunities, when I don't do well mental mapping I feel 
negative.
 Do you just have to tell yourself you will try harder next time 
and
 laugh it off?
 Another thing I struggle with is when I go to say a basketball 
game or
 the mall or somewhere by myself sometimes I want/need someone to 
show
 me where something is and or walk me to my seat and other times 
if
 something is nearby I just want to get directions and try to
 explore/find it on my own. I notice when I try to ask people to 
give
 me directions though they often insist I walk with them or they 
take
 me to where I am trying to go. This is sometimes fine, but I 
think it
 would help my confidence a lot if sometimes I could just get
 directions and try to go on my own.
 When I was in training if i asked directions and the person 
wanted to
 take me I would say"I am sorry but I am in training. I'm 
supposed to
 just get directions."
 However, now that I am not in training anymore when I try to ask 
for
 directions and the person insists on taking me or walking with 
me I
 don't know what to say. I'm not in training anymore so...
 How do you handle this? Should I say something like "Actually, 
thank
 you but I am trying to work on some skills I learned. Please 
just give
 me directions."
 What do you say to people so you can just get directions?
 Thanks,
 Kerri

 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l:
 
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From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org  Wed Dec 11 19:57:25 2013
From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:57:25 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] check this out
Message-ID: <fd99cd3ae6bb43ec85cfb067602f1fde@BL2PR08MB162.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Anyone think this sounds like a good internship opportunity?  LOL see below.
Mars One mission accepting applications
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
·         More than 200,000 people say they want to go to Mars
·         The first mission will be unmanned, planned for 2018 launch
·         Lockheed Martin, Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. are studying concepts
(CNN) -- If you have ambitions of being one of the first people on Mars, listen up: A Dutch company says it is moving along with its plan to send four lucky Earthlings to colonize the Red Planet. The catch: They won't ever come back.
The Mars One foundation announced Tuesday that it has secured lead suppliers for an unmanned mission launching in 2018, which involves a robotic lander and a communications satellite. Lockheed Martin has been contracted to study building the lander, and Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd. will develop a concept study for the satellite, Mars One said.
This first mission will demonstrate technology that would be involved in a permanent human settlement on Mars. If all goes well -- and that's still very much an "if" -- the first pioneers could land on Mars in 2025.
Enthusiasm has been growing since the project's first big announcement in April<http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world/mars-one-way-ticket/index.html>. More than 200,000 people have signed up to be prospective astronauts, Mars One CEO Bas Lansdorp said in Washington on Tuesday.
Apparently, they're OK with living out the rest of their lives on Mars. The technology for a return flight doesn't exist -- there's no Kennedy Space Center launch pad over there! -- and having a one-way trip greatly reduces costs, the company has said.
The application<https://applicants.mars-one.com/> period is now closed, and by the end of this year, the company plans to notify those special folk who made it to Round 2.
The unmanned mission is the "most important and most difficult step of actually getting humans to Mars<http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/tech/innovation/mars-one-applications/>," Lansdorp said.
It would also be the first privately funded planetary exploration mission.
"The opportunity to participate in that is just really exciting," said Ed Sedivy, a chief engineer at Lockheed Martin Space Systems.
Lansdorp expects that the majority of funding for the unmanned missions will come from sponsors and partners, not public contributions.
Follow CNN Science News

Facebook: CNNScience<http://www.facebook.com/CNNScience>

Twitter: @CNNLightYears<http://www.twitter.com/CNNLightYears>
The cost of the lander and satellite will be something that the contracted companies will study, although Mars One has a ballpark figure in mind, Lansdorp said.
Mars Curiosity rover finds life-supporting chemicals<http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/tech/mars-curiosity-rover/index.html>
What they want to send in 2018
The lander will be based on the successful NASA Phoenix<http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/main/#.UqdBtvRDtyw> mission, Lansdorp said. The Mars One probe will feature a robotic arm carrying a camera that will shoot continuous video, as well as a water experiment that will demonstrate the production of liquid water on the surface of Mars.
"The highest priority is to actually have liquid water on Mars," he said.
This unmanned mission will also carry the winning projects from an experiment contest. There will be a worldwide university challenge giving teams the chance to propose tests to carry out on Mars.
These could be science experiments, of course, but Mars One is also interested in "fun" experiments. One of Lansdorp's visions, for instance, is a balloon with a camera attached to it that would film Mars from an altitude of 200 to 500 meters, which has never been done.
The communications satellite will provide live video feed from surface of Mars to Earth, representing the first Mars synchronous communications satellite, Lansdorp said.
Tourist trips to the Moon by 2043?<http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/09/tech/space-tourism/index.html>
[http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.e/img/3.0/mosaic/bttn_close.gif]
[Watch this video]<http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/tech/innovation/mars-one-plan/index.html>

[http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130815173222-lead-pkg-mars-auditions-00022724-story-body.jpg]Auditions for a one-way ticket to Mars
Getting to Mars
Mars One was originally slated to land the first humans in 2023, but the project has been delayed.
After the first humans arrive in 2025, the plan is send additional crews every two years, Lansdorp said. Right now, the idea is to send crews of four, but eventually bigger vehicles may become available to transport more people.
Is there enough time to get the lander and satellite on their way by 2018? Sedivy said it takes about 3½ years from commitment to initiating a preliminary design to launch, so that gives his company about a year of leeway to study this concept before promising to execute it.
That timeline is "pretty favorable," he said Tuesday. But as to whether it's enough time to develop the science side of things, that's "a little tricky," he said.
It takes money
Mars One is looking at "a range of funding scenarios." The total estimated budget for getting the first four humans to Mars is $6 billion. Lansdorp would not disclose how much money has been secured from partners and sponsors but said donations currently total more than $200,000.
A reality TV concept may help recoup costs. Lansdorp noted that Mars One will have the most unique video "available in the solar system," which has a lot of value, and he hopes this will attract sponsors and partners. Media coverage will be a main funding source.
But will the money come through? Will the technology really be developed by 2018 for the unmanned mission and to send people there by 2025? Will four humans survive the journey in a tight space capsule and embrace a desolate planet as their home?
As Lansdorp himself said Tuesday, "You can't go to Mars on excitement."
Time will tell whether prospective applicants can go at all.
Follow Elizabeth Landau at @lizlandau<http://www.twitter.com/lizlandau>
2316<http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/tech/innovation/mars-one-plan/index.html#disqus_thread>
Comments »<http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/tech/innovation/mars-one-plan/index.html#cnn-disqus-area>
SHARE THIS

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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 11 22:11:35 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:11:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>



Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting in February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you, Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let you know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes a lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and ask him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me my Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions in how to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from my iPhone

From ALewis at nfb.org  Wed Dec 11 22:17:25 2013
From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:17:25 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Seminar in Washington
Message-ID: <d13862f1b8764488a093d194469228ec@BLUPR07MB689.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Sean:

Will there be a student seminar in Washington this year?

Anil

Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A.
Director of Advocacy and Policy

"Eliminating Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities"
http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland   21230
(410) 659-9314 ext. 2374 (Voice)
(410) 685-5653 (FAX)
Email: alewis at nfb.org
Web: www.nfb.org
twitter: @anillife

The National Federation of the Blind wishes you a joyous and safe holiday season. We would appreciate you including the NFB in your end-of-year giving. Make your contribution<https://nfb.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=1> now.


From andrewjedg at gmail.com  Wed Dec 11 22:35:16 2013
From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:35:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
In-Reply-To: <8CE8F5A7-5215-41AF-A69A-8554EF122A9B@aol.com>
References: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9d2ced03434ef9b245d138b6ee8062@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<8CE8F5A7-5215-41AF-A69A-8554EF122A9B@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAM342zbid_R6P0iUeGxf6hO5GcFcRMfqRdbiApCq608A+Ov1FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Janice you have actually taken the program?  just wondering.  and do
you actually have to get your guide dog there or can you do the o and
m program  there and get guide dog else where.

On 12/9/13, Janice DeHart <jandart2 at aol.com> wrote:
> The Accelerated Mobility Program Program is a seven day program.
> Jan DeHart
> COMS
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew!
>> From what I hear, it's a terrible school!
>> Go to Guiding Eyes for the Blind in MO!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Andrew
>> [andrewjedg at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:58 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
>>
>> Hi all in this group not sure if you heard of it or not but leader
>> guide dogs does a 5 day orientation mobility training at the leader
>> dogs school in mishagan.
>> I Has any of you done the 5 day training if so what did you think of it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
>>
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>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>


From sgermano at asu.edu  Wed Dec 11 23:53:02 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:53:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>

I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
up.

Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
huge waste of money.

Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.

Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual ahead
of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
accommodations can be made.


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting in
> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let you
> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes a
> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and ask
> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me my
> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate it
> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
> my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 12 00:00:21 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:00:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBRzN8rLAevoTcKPJUV2ToT1citb3eVFgTBo2=jZmYb9A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

I was a biology major in college and took basic bio courses plus
upper-division animal behavior, animal physiology and genetics. I
think getting the book in Braille is a good idea if you can. However I
don't think the pictures are as important as professors think they
are. If you have disability services at your college, you could ask
them to modify the quizzes and exams so the pictures are described, or
ask your professor to write a description of the pictures into the
test that they give you. You could also ask for tactile diagrams if
your university has the resources to make them. For me personally, I
found descriptions a lot more helpful than tactile diagrams, but
everyone learns differently. Also, if on the test they ask you to draw
a picture of something, you could write a verbal description of what
the picture looks like and how the different parts fit together, i.e.
instead of drawing a picture of a cell, write that the cell membrane
is on the outside of the cell and the nucleus is on the inside. In my
experience, doing well in biology class was mostly about understanding
how things function rather than what they look like. The pictures are
just a tool for sighted students to remember the concepts, but we as
blind students have other methods for remembering the concepts that
work just as well. Good luck!
Arielle

On 12/11/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
> 1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
> suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
> know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
> up.
>
> Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
> huge waste of money.
>
> Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
> developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.
>
> Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual ahead
> of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
> accommodations can be made.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting
>> in
>> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
>> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
>> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
>> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let
>> you
>> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
>> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes
>> a
>> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
>> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
>> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and
>> ask
>> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me my
>> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate
>> it
>> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
>> my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 12 00:11:25 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 19:11:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Suzanne, this is Helga. There is not a lab portion of this course. But I 
forgot to mention that the when I talked to my Biology Professor today, he 
actually told me that he will assign us chapters of the book  to read in 
order to do the quizzes and homeworks that are in Blackboard. He actually 
told me that he is going to assign 8 chapters in order for ust to read. So 
that is why I was thinking in getting my book in Braill. I don't really like 
the book in PDF format. What do you think about that? Thanks and God bless!
P.S. By the way, Thank you so much for the suggestions!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Suzanne Germano
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester

I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
up.

Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
huge waste of money.

Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.

Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual ahead
of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
accommodations can be made.


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting 
> in
> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let you
> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes a
> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and 
> ask
> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me my
> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate 
> it
> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
> my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From sgermano at asu.edu  Thu Dec 12 00:18:17 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:18:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avffGsh3R01S__EwB4Q4SZQRaOQQXRidXxRpFtGHaozTnA@mail.gmail.com>

I use a CCTV but if I were not a print user I would prefer braille over
speech. If you have to read the book then I would have it done. We were
assigned chapters also but were told nothing would be on the test that was
not covered in class so I didn't read any of the biology book.


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne, this is Helga. There is not a lab portion of this course. But
> I forgot to mention that the when I talked to my Biology Professor today,
> he actually told me that he will assign us chapters of the book  to read in
> order to do the quizzes and homeworks that are in Blackboard. He actually
> told me that he is going to assign 8 chapters in order for ust to read. So
> that is why I was thinking in getting my book in Braill. I don't really
> like the book in PDF format. What do you think about that? Thanks and God
> bless!
> P.S. By the way, Thank you so much for the suggestions!
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:53 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
>
> I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
> 1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
> suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
> know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
> up.
>
> Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
> huge waste of money.
>
> Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
> developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.
>
> Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual ahead
> of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
> accommodations can be made.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting
>> in
>> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
>> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
>> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
>> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let you
>> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
>> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes a
>> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
>> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
>> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and
>> ask
>> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me my
>> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate
>> it
>> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
>> my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Dec 12 02:50:07 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:50:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbmn-news] New Executive Director of BLIND Inc.
Message-ID: <auto-000135636241@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Dear Minnesota Federationists:
>
>I am pleased to be able to let you know that Dan Wenzel has accepted
>the position of Executive Director of BLIND, Inc.  Dan is a long-time
>Federationist who served for several years as the state president in
>Wisconsin and also as a member of our NFB national board. He believes
>deeply in the work of the Federation and in our training centers as an
>expression of the Federation. In addition to a strong background in
>Federation philosophy and action, he brings a great deal of leadership
>experience to the position. He is currently working as manager of
>youth services at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland.  Prior to
>that, he directed the Wisconsin Center for the Blind, served as an
>assistant director at the Colorado Center for the Blind, and held
>various other leadership positions in his employment and in the
>communities in which he lived.  He also worked for several years as a
>cane travel instructor.
>
>  Dan will bring great enthusiasm and commitment to this work, and, of
>course, I know we will all stand ready to welcome and help him. His
>start date will be finalized soon.
>
>  Best,
>  Jennifer



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 12 03:36:15 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:36:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avffGsh3R01S__EwB4Q4SZQRaOQQXRidXxRpFtGHaozTnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avffGsh3R01S__EwB4Q4SZQRaOQQXRidXxRpFtGHaozTnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaE29-hL7vHx3zwp7_Sf-kdmjrsnjdrZDv5mEEyA+pCEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

I will be taking a bio 101 course next semester-general biology for
non-science majors.  Here is what I did to prepare.

It sounds like you've contacted your professor beforehand, which is
good.  I don't know on which grounds he's told you the information you
have, but if you haven't already see if you can actually meet with
him/her in person.
TAlk with the DS office.  I am a little confused why you would go
through the vice president of the university, as getting textbooks in
braille is the disability resources office's responsibility.  They
should handle all of your accomodations.
Some tactile image books are already available.  If you're taking a
general biology course APH has a great book with all sorts of diagrams
including plants, organs, cells, etc.  I don't remember the name but
it helped me a lot.
See if you can get a lab assistant through your DS office if you need
to take the lab portion as well, and get the manual as far in advance
as possible as Suzanne suggested.
Do everything else as suggested in the way of getting image
descriptions or tactile images.
For the textbook, have you thought of putting an electronic file of
the book on your BrailleNote?  That way you can have it in braille,
but it would be a lot less bulky to deal with.

Hope this helps.
On 12/11/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> I use a CCTV but if I were not a print user I would prefer braille over
> speech. If you have to read the book then I would have it done. We were
> assigned chapters also but were told nothing would be on the test that was
> not covered in class so I didn't read any of the biology book.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Suezanne, this is Helga. There is not a lab portion of this course. But
>> I forgot to mention that the when I talked to my Biology Professor today,
>> he actually told me that he will assign us chapters of the book  to read
>> in
>> order to do the quizzes and homeworks that are in Blackboard. He actually
>> told me that he is going to assign 8 chapters in order for ust to read.
>> So
>> that is why I was thinking in getting my book in Braill. I don't really
>> like the book in PDF format. What do you think about that? Thanks and God
>> bless!
>> P.S. By the way, Thank you so much for the suggestions!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
>>
>> I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
>> 1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
>> suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
>> know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
>> up.
>>
>> Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
>> huge waste of money.
>>
>> Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
>> developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.
>>
>> Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual
>> ahead
>> of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
>> accommodations can be made.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
>> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>>> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting
>>> in
>>> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
>>> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
>>> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
>>> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let
>>> you
>>> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
>>> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes
>>> a
>>> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
>>> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
>>> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and
>>> ask
>>> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me
>>> my
>>> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate
>>> it
>>> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>>>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
>>> my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 12 04:17:08 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 23:17:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaE29-hL7vHx3zwp7_Sf-kdmjrsnjdrZDv5mEEyA+pCEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl><CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl><CAF=_avffGsh3R01S__EwB4Q4SZQRaOQQXRidXxRpFtGHaozTnA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaE29-hL7vHx3zwp7_Sf-kdmjrsnjdrZDv5mEEyA+pCEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS1287CAE3D0EBFCC9210C3DF5DC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Kaiti, this is Helga. I How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I 
already talked to my Biology Professor today in person and that's when he 
told me the information regarding the course. By the way, the reason I went 
to the vice president of my college is because I have many issues with my 
DSS adviser due to the fact that that every time I told her that I would 
like to have my Pre-Calculus book in Braille or any other book that I took 
before for my classes,,, she tells me that the publisher doesn't have it. 
And also whenever I tell her that I would like to have my class assignment 
in Braille since my college has a Braille embosser, she would always tells 
me, you have JAWS you can read it from there. And I actually still have 
issues with her. And that is why I went to the vice president because she 
wasn't really providing the accomodation I needed. Also, she only give me my 
books in PDF format. Just to let you know, I don't really like books in PDF 
format. And actually the Biology book has a lot of pictures. Actually, when 
I went today to talked to my Professor, he told me that he will assign us 8 
chapters to read in order to do quizzes and homework assignments that are in 
Blackboard, and he actually told me that one of the chapters has more 
pictures than the others. Thanks so much for listening to me. God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester

Hi Helga,

I will be taking a bio 101 course next semester-general biology for
non-science majors.  Here is what I did to prepare.

It sounds like you've contacted your professor beforehand, which is
good.  I don't know on which grounds he's told you the information you
have, but if you haven't already see if you can actually meet with
him/her in person.
TAlk with the DS office.  I am a little confused why you would go
through the vice president of the university, as getting textbooks in
braille is the disability resources office's responsibility.  They
should handle all of your accomodations.
Some tactile image books are already available.  If you're taking a
general biology course APH has a great book with all sorts of diagrams
including plants, organs, cells, etc.  I don't remember the name but
it helped me a lot.
See if you can get a lab assistant through your DS office if you need
to take the lab portion as well, and get the manual as far in advance
as possible as Suzanne suggested.
Do everything else as suggested in the way of getting image
descriptions or tactile images.
For the textbook, have you thought of putting an electronic file of
the book on your BrailleNote?  That way you can have it in braille,
but it would be a lot less bulky to deal with.

Hope this helps.
On 12/11/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> I use a CCTV but if I were not a print user I would prefer braille over
> speech. If you have to read the book then I would have it done. We were
> assigned chapters also but were told nothing would be on the test that was
> not covered in class so I didn't read any of the biology book.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Suezanne, this is Helga. There is not a lab portion of this course. 
>> But
>> I forgot to mention that the when I talked to my Biology Professor today,
>> he actually told me that he will assign us chapters of the book  to read
>> in
>> order to do the quizzes and homeworks that are in Blackboard. He actually
>> told me that he is going to assign 8 chapters in order for ust to read.
>> So
>> that is why I was thinking in getting my book in Braill. I don't really
>> like the book in PDF format. What do you think about that? Thanks and God
>> bless!
>> P.S. By the way, Thank you so much for the suggestions!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
>>
>> I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
>> 1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
>> suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
>> know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
>> up.
>>
>> Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
>> huge waste of money.
>>
>> Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
>> developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.
>>
>> Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual
>> ahead
>> of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
>> accommodations can be made.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
>> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>>> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting
>>> in
>>> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
>>> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
>>> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
>>> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let
>>> you
>>> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
>>> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes
>>> a
>>> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
>>> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
>>> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and
>>> ask
>>> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me
>>> my
>>> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate
>>> it
>>> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>>>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
>>> my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Thu Dec 12 13:14:01 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:14:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS1287CAE3D0EBFCC9210C3DF5DC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS40AF11948B95A5A333D8A8F5DD0@phx.gbl><CAF=_avcrOYZC0WTybiGQo0HUBsWRO0hDgPLWZonrCE=bvssMBA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS21342B1B8A462CEA952EBAF5DC0@phx.gbl><CAF=_avffGsh3R01S__EwB4Q4SZQRaOQQXRidXxRpFtGHaozTnA@mail.gmail.com><CAFja7FaE29-hL7vHx3zwp7_Sf-kdmjrsnjdrZDv5mEEyA+pCEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS1287CAE3D0EBFCC9210C3DF5DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1C3B12CBEBD54090B6157DD9A9A99906@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Helga,
I know that it is not as good as having Braille, but do you have a Learning 
Ally membership? Their books are in audio, and they describe all of the 
pictures, photographs, graphs, and other visual things found on each page so 
that you will know what they look like, and they read all of the captions 
too. I do not know if they will have your biology book, but they might, 
since they seem to have a lot of textbooks, especially for general core 
college classes like introductory biology. I am currently using Learning 
Ally for just about all of my textbooks for school, as I am in my second 
year of my associates degree and am planning to get a bachelor degree as 
well. The disability office at my community college is very small and 
consists of only one counselor and one computer with JAWS and scanner, but 
they have no embosser or any kind of equipment, and they tell me that I am 
the first totally blind JAWS user they have had in several years, so I tend 
to use Learning Ally or Book Share for my textbooks, and when they are not 
available, I can get them in pdf, but I try my best to find it on Learning 
Ally or some other way and get the pdf as a last resort.
I hope this helps, and I hope you can get the accomodations you need.
Misty

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester

Hi Kaiti, this is Helga. I How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
already talked to my Biology Professor today in person and that's when he
told me the information regarding the course. By the way, the reason I went
to the vice president of my college is because I have many issues with my
DSS adviser due to the fact that that every time I told her that I would
like to have my Pre-Calculus book in Braille or any other book that I took
before for my classes,,, she tells me that the publisher doesn't have it.
And also whenever I tell her that I would like to have my class assignment
in Braille since my college has a Braille embosser, she would always tells
me, you have JAWS you can read it from there. And I actually still have
issues with her. And that is why I went to the vice president because she
wasn't really providing the accomodation I needed. Also, she only give me my
books in PDF format. Just to let you know, I don't really like books in PDF
format. And actually the Biology book has a lot of pictures. Actually, when
I went today to talked to my Professor, he told me that he will assign us 8
chapters to read in order to do quizzes and homework assignments that are in
Blackboard, and he actually told me that one of the chapters has more
pictures than the others. Thanks so much for listening to me. God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester

Hi Helga,

I will be taking a bio 101 course next semester-general biology for
non-science majors.  Here is what I did to prepare.

It sounds like you've contacted your professor beforehand, which is
good.  I don't know on which grounds he's told you the information you
have, but if you haven't already see if you can actually meet with
him/her in person.
TAlk with the DS office.  I am a little confused why you would go
through the vice president of the university, as getting textbooks in
braille is the disability resources office's responsibility.  They
should handle all of your accomodations.
Some tactile image books are already available.  If you're taking a
general biology course APH has a great book with all sorts of diagrams
including plants, organs, cells, etc.  I don't remember the name but
it helped me a lot.
See if you can get a lab assistant through your DS office if you need
to take the lab portion as well, and get the manual as far in advance
as possible as Suzanne suggested.
Do everything else as suggested in the way of getting image
descriptions or tactile images.
For the textbook, have you thought of putting an electronic file of
the book on your BrailleNote?  That way you can have it in braille,
but it would be a lot less bulky to deal with.

Hope this helps.
On 12/11/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> I use a CCTV but if I were not a print user I would prefer braille over
> speech. If you have to read the book then I would have it done. We were
> assigned chapters also but were told nothing would be on the test that was
> not covered in class so I didn't read any of the biology book.
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Suezanne, this is Helga. There is not a lab portion of this course. 
>> But
>> I forgot to mention that the when I talked to my Biology Professor today,
>> he actually told me that he will assign us chapters of the book  to read
>> in
>> order to do the quizzes and homeworks that are in Blackboard. He actually
>> told me that he is going to assign 8 chapters in order for ust to read.
>> So
>> that is why I was thinking in getting my book in Braill. I don't really
>> like the book in PDF format. What do you think about that? Thanks and God
>> bless!
>> P.S. By the way, Thank you so much for the suggestions!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne Germano
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concepts of Biology Class for the Spring Semester
>>
>> I have taken two semesters of biology for science majors. One at SDSU in
>> 1995 and I just finished one. I did not use the book at all. What I would
>> suggest is just have the specific diagram they go over or expect you to
>> know either done tactically or have a description of the picture written
>> up.
>>
>> Our professor only tested on what was covered in class so the book was a
>> huge waste of money.
>>
>> Here at ASU we have a blind biology grad student. She is working on
>> developing tactile diagrams for blind and visually impaired students.
>>
>> Is there a lab portion to this this course? If so get the lab manual
>> ahead
>> of time and find out in detail what will be required so the needed
>> accommodations can be made.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Helga Schreiber <
>> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. What's up? I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>>> going to be taking a "Concepts of Biology" course next semester starting
>>> in
>>> February 3, This is actually a 12 weeks class. I just wanted to ask you,
>>> Did any of you guys took a biology class before? And if you did, How did
>>> you manage studying and learning for it? I'm just wondering! This is
>>> actually my first time taking a Biology course in college. Just to let
>>> you
>>> know, I already spoke with my Biology Professor today, and I ask him
>>> questions regarding the course, and he told me that this course includes
>>> a
>>> lot of pictures. For instance, he told me that the quizzes, which are in
>>> Blackboard include  some pictures, and the final exam as well. I was
>>> thinking probably in talking with the Vice President of my college, and
>>> ask
>>> him if he could buy me the Biology book in Braille, since he bought me
>>> my
>>> Pre-Calculus book in Braille for this semester. I will really appreciate
>>> it
>>> if you could give me some suggestions in h
>>>  ow to handle a Biology course. Thanks so much and God bless!! Sent from
>>> my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From jandart2 at aol.com  Thu Dec 12 14:25:41 2013
From: jandart2 at aol.com (jandart2 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 09:25:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
In-Reply-To: <CAM342zbid_R6P0iUeGxf6hO5GcFcRMfqRdbiApCq608A+Ov1FQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM342zaXCuDJt3nZRh9z=X_6BcCGcS35JFudJz2HyRFS4qqH4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<eb9d2ced03434ef9b245d138b6ee8062@BLUPR07MB258.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<8CE8F5A7-5215-41AF-A69A-8554EF122A9B@aol.com>
	<CAM342zbid_R6P0iUeGxf6hO5GcFcRMfqRdbiApCq608A+Ov1FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D0C55D2B2F9130-2594-DF1@webmail-m236.sysops.aol.com>


Andrew,
No, I have not taken the course.  My information comes from word of mouth and the website.  I am an orientation and mobility specialist and in general the school is highly regarded by fellow professionals. Of course, some may have a different perspective.


The seven day program is to improve orientation and mobility skills.  If you attend that program, it is my understanding that you do not have to get a dog guide from that school; that is a separate program which involves about a month of training.


Hope this helps!


Jan DeHart


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew <andrewjedg at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, Dec 11, 2013 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program


Janice you have actually taken the program?  just wondering.  and do
you actually have to get your guide dog there or can you do the o and
m program  there and get guide dog else where.

On 12/9/13, Janice DeHart <jandart2 at aol.com> wrote:
> The Accelerated Mobility Program Program is a seven day program.
> Jan DeHart
> COMS
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 8:49 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew!
>> From what I hear, it's a terrible school!
>> Go to Guiding Eyes for the Blind in MO!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Andrew
>> [andrewjedg at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 7:58 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] orientation mobility program
>>
>> Hi all in this group not sure if you heard of it or not but leader
>> guide dogs does a 5 day orientation mobility training at the leader
>> dogs school in mishagan.
>> I Has any of you done the 5 day training if so what did you think of it.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccua.edu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com

 

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Dec 12 18:02:55 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 10:02:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Cash, Cars: A conference Call (Honk Honk!)
Message-ID: <D8BDF718-2A3C-4D6C-92D0-5A6841FB6DEC@gmail.com>

hi all.
   Want to be a part of driving  our movement? Want to have a important role  in   raising awareness for the federation and funds that develop  programs  for Students?
 Well Join NABS as we learn about a new  Federation   fundraising campaign  that does not require you to  ask your friends and family for money, but with your help can net us a great amount of funds  that will allow us to do more things to support         Students. 
    
Joanne Wilson will be Honk honking on our call Sunday night about how you can turn an old clunker into cash for the NFB.

  When? Sunday December 15, 2013 at 7p.m. Eastern.
 Call: (605) 475-6700  Code: 7869673.

 Honk! Honk! 

 The National   Association of Blind Students.

From ALewis at nfb.org  Thu Dec 12 19:46:47 2013
From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 19:46:47 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] All Charitable Contributions Sustain Exploitive Services
Message-ID: <234b65d336e143a59afd320f0dc44ea3@BLUPR07MB689.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

All Charitable Contributions Sustain Exploitive Services
Submitted by alewis on Mon, 12/09/2013 - 15:38
Blog Date:
Monday, December 9, 2013
By Anil Lewis
https://nfb.org/blog/vonb-blog/all-charitable-contributions-sustain-exploitive-services

ACCSES, the American Congress of Community Supports and Employment Services, is the name of an nonprofit "charitable" organization that claims to represent disability service providers across the country and professes to be the voice of disability service providers speaking for people with disabilities. If ACCSES is indeed the voice of disability service providers, it is unfortunate that they choose to use their voice, and your charitable contributions, to support Section 14(c) of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), which is an unfair, immoral, and discriminatory provision that allows employers to pay workers with disabilities less than the federal minimum wage.  And although ACCSES states that it speaks for people with disabilities, organizations comprised of people with disabilities reserve the right to speak for ourselves, and we adamantly oppose this discriminatory provision.
Some of the ACCSES member organizations rise to the higher calling of a true charitable organization and use your contributions to operate successfully without the use of a special "subminimum" wage certificate, proving that it can be done.  However, rather than supporting the evolution of all of its member organizations toward the adoption of this proven business model, ACCSES uses your charitable contributions to lobby members of Congress to keep in place this seventy-five-year-old provision that allows organizations to legally pay workers with disabilities pennies per hour.  ACCSES openly opposes our efforts to phase out the use of this discriminatory provision by circulating misleading documents and public service announcements that attempt to justify its use of this anachronistic practice.
ACCSES and its less enlightened members sustain their exploitive business model by perpetuating the misconception that people with disabilities cannot be productive employees, and by asserting that Section 14(c) of the FLSA allows them to pay subminimum wages in order to provide disabled people with an opportunity to receive the "tangible and intangible benefits of work."  This may have been a well-intended effort in 1938, but it has been proven ineffective and costly in today's workplace. Today, people with disabilities speak for ourselves and we say: eliminate the excuses and allow the experts to assist people with significant disabilities to acquire competitive job skills and earn at least the federal minimum wage.  And if ACCSES, or its member organizations, are unable to provide appropriate training for workers with disabilities to become productive employees, they should not be allowed to impose their inadequacy and lack of expertise on individuals with disabilities.
ACCSES's service model is founded on the belief that a person with a disability cannot work competitively, and it should be no surprise that this model results in over 400,000 people with disabilities being labeled as incapable of performing competitive work. This lack of belief in the employment potential of people with disabilities is contrary to the growing Employment First paradigm of assuming that everyone, regardless of disability, is employable when provided the proper training and support.  As a result of the emerging belief in the employment capacity of individuals with significant disabilities, we are seeing an increase in the competitive employment of people with disabilities who were formerly written off by society.
Through its self-serving actions, ACCSES distorts the whole purpose of a charitable organization and takes advantage of the legal designation of a nonprofit business.  It is hypocritical that ACCSES and its member nonprofit organizations attempt to justify their payment of outrageous executive salaries while simultaneously trying to defend their right to pay individuals with disabilities subminimum wages.  Regardless of the state and federal regulations that govern executive compensation, we should expect ACCSES members to have a moral compass that governs the proper use of their tax-exempt status. Thankfully, as we continue to educate the public about this exploitive provision, we are finding that donors are offended that their charitable donations are being used to pay six-figure salaries to executives who pay their workers with disabilities pennies per hour, especially when proven, nondiscriminatory alternative models exist.  Until ACCSES member organizations agree to convert to a business model that replaces their segregated subminimum-wage workshops with proven competitive integrated training and employment service environments, ACCSES may as well be an acronym for All Charitable Contributions Sustain Exploitive Services.
The Fair Wages for Workers with Disabilities Act of 2013, HR 831, will responsibly phase out and eventually repeal Section 14(c) of the Fair Labor Standards Act. As a result, individuals with the most significant disabilities will no longer be trapped in segregated subminimum-wage workshops.  Entities will have three years to transition to a proven competitive integrated training and employment business model that assists individuals with significant disabilities to obtain real jobs at real wages.  Organizations opposing the adoption of this proven model only demonstrate their lack of expertise in the field of employment of people with disabilities, their inability to be competitive with similarly situated organizations, and their unwillingness to meet the true calling of their charitable status.



Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A.
Director of Advocacy and Policy

"Eliminating Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities"
http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland   21230
(410) 659-9314 ext. 2374 (Voice)
(410) 685-5653 (FAX)
Email: alewis at nfb.org
Web: www.nfb.org
twitter: @anillife

The National Federation of the Blind wishes you a joyous and safe holiday season. We would appreciate you including the NFB in your end-of-year giving. Make your contribution<https://nfb.org/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=1> now.


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 17:41:25 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:41:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone question
Message-ID: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>

Hello all,

Has an early Christmas present to myself, I just upgraded my iPhone to the new five CE model. Before this I had an iPhone 4S with many apps which I would like to transfer to my New phone. So, is there a way to do this without manually re-downloading every app? I would preferably like to do this using iCloud on my phone if possible, as my laptop is currently in the shop for repairs. So, is there a way to this? The technician at the Verizon store told me that I would need to reset the phone and do something else and the iCloud settings, but I honestly haven't forgot what he told me. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 17:50:02 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:50:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone question
In-Reply-To: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>
References: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

There is a way to do this through the cloud.  To do so, follow the below steps.

1. Launch App Store.
2. Go to "Updates".
3. Go to "Purchased".
4. After each of your purchased apps, there is a button that says "Download.".  Activate the button for each app.

You don't have to wait for each to download before downloading the next one.  Just keep going on down the list of apps and double tapping "Download" and you'll be good.  It takes a while, but you can check the status of each app by navigating to the app on your home screen.  It'll tell you the download progress.
  Hope this helps.

Best,

Ryan L. Silveira

On Dec 14, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Has an early Christmas present to myself, I just upgraded my iPhone to the new five CE model. Before this I had an iPhone 4S with many apps which I would like to transfer to my New phone. So, is there a way to do this without manually re-downloading every app? I would preferably like to do this using iCloud on my phone if possible, as my laptop is currently in the shop for repairs. So, is there a way to this? The technician at the Verizon store told me that I would need to reset the phone and do something else and the iCloud settings, but I honestly haven't forgot what he told me. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com



From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 19:41:29 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 12:41:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone question
In-Reply-To: <5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>
References: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>
	<5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6018B868-A1B0-442A-90AE-27B6939B315E@gmail.com>

Hi all,
You can do this through iTunes through the backup and restore function. If you need help, feel free to ask me. 
Ryan


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> There is a way to do this through the cloud.  To do so, follow the below steps.
> 
> 1. Launch App Store.
> 2. Go to "Updates".
> 3. Go to "Purchased".
> 4. After each of your purchased apps, there is a button that says "Download.".  Activate the button for each app.
> 
> You don't have to wait for each to download before downloading the next one.  Just keep going on down the list of apps and double tapping "Download" and you'll be good.  It takes a while, but you can check the status of each app by navigating to the app on your home screen.  It'll tell you the download progress.
>  Hope this helps.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> Has an early Christmas present to myself, I just upgraded my iPhone to the new five CE model. Before this I had an iPhone 4S with many apps which I would like to transfer to my New phone. So, is there a way to do this without manually re-downloading every app? I would preferably like to do this using iCloud on my phone if possible, as my laptop is currently in the shop for repairs. So, is there a way to this? The technician at the Verizon store told me that I would need to reset the phone and do something else and the iCloud settings, but I honestly haven't forgot what he told me. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 19:55:48 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:55:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone question
In-Reply-To: <6018B868-A1B0-442A-90AE-27B6939B315E@gmail.com>
References: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>
	<5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>
	<6018B868-A1B0-442A-90AE-27B6939B315E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8794BE3-B71E-4218-B07D-7AB0BDD913A7@gmail.com>

Brian,

Thank you for this. Are you referring to the iTunes app for iOS or iTunes on the PC?

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2013, at 2:41 PM, Ryan Bishop <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> You can do this through iTunes through the backup and restore function. If you need help, feel free to ask me. 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> There is a way to do this through the cloud.  To do so, follow the below steps.
>> 
>> 1. Launch App Store.
>> 2. Go to "Updates".
>> 3. Go to "Purchased".
>> 4. After each of your purchased apps, there is a button that says "Download.".  Activate the button for each app.
>> 
>> You don't have to wait for each to download before downloading the next one.  Just keep going on down the list of apps and double tapping "Download" and you'll be good.  It takes a while, but you can check the status of each app by navigating to the app on your home screen.  It'll tell you the download progress.
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> Has an early Christmas present to myself, I just upgraded my iPhone to the new five CE model. Before this I had an iPhone 4S with many apps which I would like to transfer to my New phone. So, is there a way to do this without manually re-downloading every app? I would preferably like to do this using iCloud on my phone if possible, as my laptop is currently in the shop for repairs. So, is there a way to this? The technician at the Verizon store told me that I would need to reset the phone and do something else and the iCloud settings, but I honestly haven't forgot what he told me. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 19:56:23 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:56:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone question
In-Reply-To: <5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>
References: <3AC7DBEA-C21C-4F28-BBC6-986860E95561@gmail.com>
	<5BCA059F-1C65-4BEC-A6F5-1513E53C8FBA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BD651598-F249-42B2-9EA4-15FAE8D96E00@gmail.com>

Ryan,

Thanks for the info. I did this and it worked.

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2013, at 12:50 PM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> There is a way to do this through the cloud.  To do so, follow the below steps.
> 
> 1. Launch App Store.
> 2. Go to "Updates".
> 3. Go to "Purchased".
> 4. After each of your purchased apps, there is a button that says "Download.".  Activate the button for each app.
> 
> You don't have to wait for each to download before downloading the next one.  Just keep going on down the list of apps and double tapping "Download" and you'll be good.  It takes a while, but you can check the status of each app by navigating to the app on your home screen.  It'll tell you the download progress.
>  Hope this helps.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> Has an early Christmas present to myself, I just upgraded my iPhone to the new five CE model. Before this I had an iPhone 4S with many apps which I would like to transfer to my New phone. So, is there a way to do this without manually re-downloading every app? I would preferably like to do this using iCloud on my phone if possible, as my laptop is currently in the shop for repairs. So, is there a way to this? The technician at the Verizon store told me that I would need to reset the phone and do something else and the iCloud settings, but I honestly haven't forgot what he told me. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 21:17:21 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:17:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Guide Dog/Cane Call on Monday!
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOuQF4RAinuSoxdUvbZuX-7H+xf8JXo3Caiod6+WbyZ4A@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Fellow Students,

  It’s an age-old  question  of a personal decision  regarding   the
decision to travel with   Cane or  Guide dog and   which is the best
option for  the
individual.
 While no one  discussion can hope to answer that question for anyone,
the     National  Association of Blind STudents is excited  to host a
forum where
you can get your questions answered on the matter  by blind students
who  have extensive experience  traveling with dog and cane.
  Come and Join NABS and our guest  speakers NAGDU Board member Julie
Mcginnity  and Former NABS President (2009-2011) Arielle Silverman on
Monday, December
16 at 8p.m. Eastern Time as they share their  experiences and answer
questions on the pros and cons of both cane and guide dogs  travel.
 Call:(605) 475-6700  and enter code 7869673.
   We look forward to  joining you on the  call!
    Regards ,
   The National Association of Blind Students.


-- 
Darian Smith


Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
via your phone bill.

The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities

http://www.nfb.org/fairwages


“We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
-Darian Smith


From haleysumner at sbcglobal.net  Sun Dec 15 04:11:05 2013
From: haleysumner at sbcglobal.net (Haley Sumner)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 23:11:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Guide Dog/Cane Call on Monday!
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjOuQF4RAinuSoxdUvbZuX-7H+xf8JXo3Caiod6+WbyZ4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjOuQF4RAinuSoxdUvbZuX-7H+xf8JXo3Caiod6+WbyZ4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5745A87B-8F73-4069-9994-2C388B80EBE9@sbcglobal.net>

Hilello all, 
Will the call on Monday be recorded? I will not be able to attend because of a school ceremony, but I am very curious about this topic, and definitely want to hear the input of the students.
Thanks 
Haley 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings Fellow Students,
> 
>   It’s an age-old  question  of a personal decision  regarding   the
> decision to travel with   Cane or  Guide dog and   which is the best
> option for  the
> individual.
>  While no one  discussion can hope to answer that question for anyone,
> the     National  Association of Blind STudents is excited  to host a
> forum where
> you can get your questions answered on the matter  by blind students
> who  have extensive experience  traveling with dog and cane.
>   Come and Join NABS and our guest  speakers NAGDU Board member Julie
> Mcginnity  and Former NABS President (2009-2011) Arielle Silverman on
> Monday, December
> 16 at 8p.m. Eastern Time as they share their  experiences and answer
> questions on the pros and cons of both cane and guide dogs  travel.
>  Call:(605) 475-6700  and enter code 7869673.
>    We look forward to  joining you on the  call!
>     Regards ,
>    The National Association of Blind Students.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Darian Smith
> 
> 
> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
> via your phone bill.
> 
> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
> 
> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
> 
> 
> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
> -Darian Smith
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haleysumner%40sbcglobal.net


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Dec 15 22:35:48 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 14:35:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: vehicle donation program confrence call tonight.
Message-ID: <75BC1D87-C334-4FBD-AA67-6D94D9B1F766@gmail.com>

Hi all,
 just a quick reminder  about  the vehicle donation program  call tonight at 7p.m. ET. call (605)475-6700. Code 7869673.
  Excited to  have you with us learning about a great opportunity to raise some funds to benefit the programs of the Federation.
  Talk to you soon!
  Honk Honk!

  The National Association of Blind Students 	 to 

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Dec 15 23:40:43 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 15:40:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Guide Dog/Cane Call on Monday!
In-Reply-To: <5745A87B-8F73-4069-9994-2C388B80EBE9@sbcglobal.net>
References: <CAEwUdjOuQF4RAinuSoxdUvbZuX-7H+xf8JXo3Caiod6+WbyZ4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745A87B-8F73-4069-9994-2C388B80EBE9@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <839611E7-7C7C-4CCD-8AAD-4124FA440B16@gmail.com>

Hello,
Unfortunately, the call will not be recorded. I will look into options for notetaking, but I cannot promise anything. I do apologize and I look forward to hearing from all who can attend.

This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

> On Dec 14, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Haley Sumner <haleysumner at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Hilello all, 
> Will the call on Monday be recorded? I will not be able to attend because of a school ceremony, but I am very curious about this topic, and definitely want to hear the input of the students.
> Thanks 
> Haley 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings Fellow Students,
>> 
>>  It’s an age-old  question  of a personal decision  regarding   the
>> decision to travel with   Cane or  Guide dog and   which is the best
>> option for  the
>> individual.
>> While no one  discussion can hope to answer that question for anyone,
>> the     National  Association of Blind STudents is excited  to host a
>> forum where
>> you can get your questions answered on the matter  by blind students
>> who  have extensive experience  traveling with dog and cane.
>>  Come and Join NABS and our guest  speakers NAGDU Board member Julie
>> Mcginnity  and Former NABS President (2009-2011) Arielle Silverman on
>> Monday, December
>> 16 at 8p.m. Eastern Time as they share their  experiences and answer
>> questions on the pros and cons of both cane and guide dogs  travel.
>> Call:(605) 475-6700  and enter code 7869673.
>>   We look forward to  joining you on the  call!
>>    Regards ,
>>   The National Association of Blind Students.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Darian Smith
>> 
>> 
>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>> via your phone bill.
>> 
>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>> 
>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>> 
>> 
>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>> -Darian Smith
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haleysumner%40sbcglobal.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Mon Dec 16 14:16:50 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 07:16:50 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [DRBA] FW: SOROS-OSF Masters Scholarships
In-Reply-To: <29E2083D8849FE43BF6A456890490A0C0E3AF0BA@BALT-X1-EXCH2K8.BGL.root>
References: <CED46BB7.969D%mary.faherty@nuigalway.ie>
	<CED47486.96B7%mary.faherty@nuigalway.ie>
	<29E2083D8849FE43BF6A456890490A0C0E3AF0BA@BALT-X1-EXCH2K8.BGL.root>
Message-ID: <038c01cefa69$76cc3e90$6464bbb0$@labarrelaw.com>

fyi

 

From: Disability Rights Bar Association [mailto:DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel F. Goldstein
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:33 AM
To: DRBA at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Subject: [DRBA] FW: SOROS-OSF Masters Scholarships

 

See notice of scholarships for Masters in Disability from the U. of Galway below and attached.

 

Daniel F. Goldstein
Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP
120 E. Baltimore St., Suite 1700
Baltimore, MD 21202
(410)962-1030
(410)385-0869 (fax)
443-923-1314 (direct dial)
dfg at browngold.com
www.browngold.com <http://www.browngold.com/> 

 

Please consider the environment before printing this email.


Confidentiality Notice

This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally privileged and that is intended only for the use of the Addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of  this e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained herein, is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by use of the Reply button, and then delete the e-mail from your system.  Thank you!

 

From: Faherty, Mary [mailto:MARY.FAHERTY at nuigalway.ie] 
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 4:13 AM
To: Centre for Disability Law and Policy
Subject: SOROS-OSF Masters Scholarships

 

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

 

Please see attached notices from SOROS-Open Society Foundations calling for disability Masters scholarship applications. 

 

Season’s greetings from all the Centre.

 

Centre for Disability Law & Policy

School of Law

National University of Ireland, Galway

+353 91 49(5888)

www.nuigalway.ie/cdlp

 



To unsubscribe, please reply with UNSUB to info.cdlp at nuigalway.ie 

REMINDER: The DRBA listserv is intended to facilitate open discussion and sharing of ideas. Members need to feel confident that their discussions will not be distributed beyond the group unnecessarily. PLEASE CONSULT WITH THE SENDER(S) BEFORE FORWARDING ANY LISTSERV DISCUSSIONS BEYOND THE DRBA GROUP. DONATE: The DRBA is a valuable free resource to its members. But the DRBA does have expenses for management, web and listserv services. PLEASE DONATE TODAY any amount you wish Online at http://GiveToSU.com Select “Burton Blatt Institute Fund” from the “My gift is designated to” drop down menu and indicate “DRBA” in the “Gift is to be used for” box. BRIEF BANK: Are you sharing briefs, interrogatories, decisions or other non-confidential resources on this listserv? ARCHIVE them for all present and future members by logging in to the DRBA website, going to the MEMBERS AREA and selecting ONLINE DOCUMENT DATABASE for further instructions. Contact DRBA-Law at law.syr.edu for login credentials and related help.

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From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Mon Dec 16 23:16:09 2013
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 17:16:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Burnaware Help
Message-ID: <08A766B3012446E1A818F26E9577DC55@peted2AB964BD1>

Good afternoon everyone,

    I recently installed the Burnaware free CD burning software program on my wife's computer. I successfully burned some CDS about six months ago but now can't remember what I did. I've been trying to burn some MP3 files to CD but believe I'm a little confused of how to do this correctly. I tried by selecting the CD type after launching the program. I believe this is the "New compilation" feature where you tell Burnaware the type of CD you wish to burn. I usually burn MP3 CDS as data CDS. I also tried burning them as MP3 CDS. I then followed the procedure for loading files to be burned. After loading the files I gave Burnaware the command to burn them to disk. When the burn was completed all I ended up with were several coasters. These were CDs that were labeled but contained no data. 

    It was from one of these lists that I learned of the Burnaware product. Okay where am I screwing up. If someone can review the procedure I can finish burning the files we wish to save and I'll save some bucks by using this free product. Some help will be very much appreciated. All the best.

Peter Donahue



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Dec 16 23:55:51 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:55:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Vabs]  NABS Guide Dog/Cane Call on Monday!
In-Reply-To: <258C4501-4369-49B8-8875-DA449CC08FD3@gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjOuQF4RAinuSoxdUvbZuX-7H+xf8JXo3Caiod6+WbyZ4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<5745A87B-8F73-4069-9994-2C388B80EBE9@sbcglobal.net>
	<839611E7-7C7C-4CCD-8AAD-4124FA440B16@gmail.com>
	<258C4501-4369-49B8-8875-DA449CC08FD3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A84F9477-44C4-4A89-98C1-7AC3134E7E75@gmail.com>

Thank you, that would be much appreciated.

This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.

> On Dec 16, 2013, at 5:14 AM, chris.omeally at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hello. I will be attending the call tonight and can take notes if you wish.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> VABS board member.
> 
>> On Dec 15, 2013, at 6:40 PM, Darian <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> Unfortunately, the call will not be recorded. I will look into options for notetaking, but I cannot promise anything. I do apologize and I look forward to hearing from all who can attend.
>> 
>> This electronic message has been brought to you by my mobile device.
>> 
>>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Haley Sumner <haleysumner at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hilello all, 
>>> Will the call on Monday be recorded? I will not be able to attend because of a school ceremony, but I am very curious about this topic, and definitely want to hear the input of the students.
>>> Thanks 
>>> Haley 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings Fellow Students,
>>>> 
>>>> It’s an age-old  question  of a personal decision  regarding   the
>>>> decision to travel with   Cane or  Guide dog and   which is the best
>>>> option for  the
>>>> individual.
>>>> While no one  discussion can hope to answer that question for anyone,
>>>> the     National  Association of Blind STudents is excited  to host a
>>>> forum where
>>>> you can get your questions answered on the matter  by blind students
>>>> who  have extensive experience  traveling with dog and cane.
>>>> Come and Join NABS and our guest  speakers NAGDU Board member Julie
>>>> Mcginnity  and Former NABS President (2009-2011) Arielle Silverman on
>>>> Monday, December
>>>> 16 at 8p.m. Eastern Time as they share their  experiences and answer
>>>> questions on the pros and cons of both cane and guide dogs  travel.
>>>> Call:(605) 475-6700  and enter code 7869673.
>>>> We look forward to  joining you on the  call!
>>>>  Regards ,
>>>> The National Association of Blind Students.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Text the word BLIND to 85944 to donate $10 to the NFB Imagination Fund
>>>> via your phone bill.
>>>> 
>>>> The time is now to eliminate Subminimum Wages for People with Disabilities
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.nfb.org/fairwages
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> “We know not of our future, but we know of our past. A past that is
>>>> made up of our ancestor’s Dreams, their stories and hopes.
>>>> These sights once seen, sounds heard and emotions felt are now our
>>>> knowledge. The knowledge that guides us to this very moment…”
>>>> -Darian Smith
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haleysumner%40sbcglobal.net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vabs mailing list
>> Vabs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/vabs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Vabs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/vabs_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Vabs mailing list
> Vabs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/vabs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Vabs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/vabs_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 02:50:24 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:50:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Burnaware Help
In-Reply-To: <08A766B3012446E1A818F26E9577DC55@peted2AB964BD1>
References: <08A766B3012446E1A818F26E9577DC55@peted2AB964BD1>
Message-ID: <001501cefad2$bc248830$346d9890$@gmail.com>

Peter,

Google BlindWindows and BurnAware. Someone recently posted the specific
steps to do what you're asking for. I just did a quick search but could not
retrieve the e-mail from that list. If I weren't in a rush, I'd go back and
search again, but post back if you haven't found that particular post or are
still having difficulty. Alternatively, depending on your OS, I've always
been able to burn data CDs using the built-in Windows feature. Select your
files, drop into your CD drive and choose the command from the menu
bar.--Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 6:16 PM
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Burnaware Help

Good afternoon everyone,

    I recently installed the Burnaware free CD burning software program on
my wife's computer. I successfully burned some CDS about six months ago but
now can't remember what I did. I've been trying to burn some MP3 files to CD
but believe I'm a little confused of how to do this correctly. I tried by
selecting the CD type after launching the program. I believe this is the
"New compilation" feature where you tell Burnaware the type of CD you wish
to burn. I usually burn MP3 CDS as data CDS. I also tried burning them as
MP3 CDS. I then followed the procedure for loading files to be burned. After
loading the files I gave Burnaware the command to burn them to disk. When
the burn was completed all I ended up with were several coasters. These were
CDs that were labeled but contained no data. 

    It was from one of these lists that I learned of the Burnaware product.
Okay where am I screwing up. If someone can review the procedure I can
finish burning the files we wish to save and I'll save some bucks by using
this free product. Some help will be very much appreciated. All the best.

Peter Donahue



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Dec 17 08:22:00 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:22:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Christmas Sale!
Message-ID: <auto-000136234083@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Insert and submit the customer code
>
>Christmas
>
>on our website and receive an instant 20% discount through December 31st!
>
>Merry Christmas!
>
>CathyAnne
>
>CathyAnne Murtha
>Director
>Access Technology Institute
>www.blindtraining.com
>Phone: (520) 300-7859
>FAX: (800) 987-6198
>Twitter: AccessTechInst
>Facebook: www.facebook.com/blindtraining



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 17 18:24:50 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:24:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS,
	and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I’m going to be taking a “Introduction of American Government,” and “Concepts of Biology” class next semester, and they involve using Blackboard, and I really don’t know how to use Blackboard with JAWS. Does anyone here knows how to use Blackboard with JAWS? Just wondering. And just to let you know, some assignments in Blackboard are not accessible with JAWS. I actually tried it before, and it didn’t work! Also, I just wanted to ask you, do you know any college, or University, or any place, where I can get or borrow my Biology book in Braille in order to use it for this Spring Semester? Just to let you know, the name of my Biology book is 
What is life?  A  guide to  Edition  1st    Author : J. Phelan Publisher W.H. Freeman and Co
ISBN 13:798-1-4292-2318-8..2318-9 I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding Blackboard and my Biology book! Thank you so much and God bless!!  
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 17 18:31:39 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:31:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  How To Use Blackboard With JAWS,
	and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
References: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS12B49050E9A20D477A0D7DF5DB0@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 17, 2013 at 1:24:50 PM EST
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students <fabs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS, and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I’m going to be taking a “Introduction of American Government,” and “Concepts of Biology” class next semester, and they involve using Blackboard, and I really don’t know how to use Blackboard with JAWS. Does anyone here knows how to use Blackboard with JAWS? Just wondering. And just to let you know, some assignments in Blackboard are not accessible with JAWS. I actually tried it before, and it didn’t work! Also, I just wanted to ask you, do you know any college, or University, or any place, where I can get or borrow my Biology book in Braille in order to use it for this Spring Semester? Just to let you know, the name of my Biology book is 
> What is life?  A  guide to  Edition  1st    Author : J. Phelan Publisher W.H. Freeman and Co
> ISBN 13:798-1-4292-2318-8..2318-9 I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding Blackboard and my Biology book! Thank you so much and God bless!!  
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 18:33:11 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:33:11 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS,
	and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAOFW8WFJ4lZFsaXnlWuEpI4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hi,
I've used black board on a few things, and it's been pretty accessible. For some things such as photos, you need to tell your teacher that it isn't accessible, but usually tests, with radio buttons and check boxes should read ok.
Ryan

Ryan Bishop
Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
480-221-5195
Secretary 
Arizona Association of blind students
http://az.nfb.org/aabs
Webmaster
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
http://az.nfb.org
Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind today! For more information, please visit:
http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
or call
1-855-659-9314

The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.

Confidentiality Notice: 
This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:25 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS, and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I’m going to be taking a “Introduction of American Government,” and “Concepts of Biology” class next semester, and they involve using Blackboard, and I really don’t know how to use Blackboard with JAWS. Does anyone here knows how to use Blackboard with JAWS? Just wondering. And just to let you know, some assignments in Blackboard are not accessible with JAWS. I actually tried it before, and it didn’t work! Also, I just wanted to ask you, do you know any college, or University, or any place, where I can get or borrow my Biology book in Braille in order to use it for this Spring Semester? Just to let you know, the name of my Biology book is 
What is life?  A  guide to  Edition  1st    Author : J. Phelan Publisher W.H. Freeman and Co
ISBN 13:798-1-4292-2318-8..2318-9 I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding Blackboard and my Biology book! Thank you so much and God bless!!  



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 18:39:30 2013
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:39:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS,
	and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAOFW8WFJ4lZFsaXnlWuEpI4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAOFW8WFJ4lZFsaXnlWuEpI4BAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29454645-478F-4A17-84B9-2B54537A059F@gmail.com>

Latest version of blackboard works great with Jaws 14 and 15.

Hope Paulos

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 1:33 PM, "ryan bishop" <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I've used black board on a few things, and it's been pretty accessible. For some things such as photos, you need to tell your teacher that it isn't accessible, but usually tests, with radio buttons and check boxes should read ok.
> Ryan
> 
> Ryan Bishop
> Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
> 480-221-5195
> Secretary 
> Arizona Association of blind students
> http://az.nfb.org/aabs
> Webmaster
> National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
> http://az.nfb.org
> Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind today! For more information, please visit:
> http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
> or call
> 1-855-659-9314
> 
> The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:25 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS, and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I’m going to be taking a “Introduction of American Government,” and “Concepts of Biology” class next semester, and they involve using Blackboard, and I really don’t know how to use Blackboard with JAWS. Does anyone here knows how to use Blackboard with JAWS? Just wondering. And just to let you know, some assignments in Blackboard are not accessible with JAWS. I actually tried it before, and it didn’t work! Also, I just wanted to ask you, do you know any college, or University, or any place, where I can get or borrow my Biology book in Braille in order to use it for this Spring Semester? Just to let you know, the name of my Biology book is 
> What is life?  A  guide to  Edition  1st    Author : J. Phelan Publisher W.H. Freeman and Co
> ISBN 13:798-1-4292-2318-8..2318-9 I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding Blackboard and my Biology book! Thank you so much and God bless!!  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 18:58:23 2013
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:58:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NAGDU List serve link
Message-ID: <08CDA428-69CB-4849-85B5-2FE27A991E59@gmail.com>

Hello all,
As promised on the call last night, here  is the link to the NAGDU list.
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 19:07:26 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:07:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NAGDU List serve link
In-Reply-To: <08CDA428-69CB-4849-85B5-2FE27A991E59@gmail.com>
References: <08CDA428-69CB-4849-85B5-2FE27A991E59@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4D+0YfFSY9gJgoi2yw00ab_88DOfZ8JY0mo1zOOg8CS7og@mail.gmail.com>

Also, if anyone has any questions about guide dogs or preparing for
guide dog school, feel free to email me off list.  My email address is
kaybaycar at gmail.com.  I don't mind answering any questions, and if I
don't know the answer, I know plenty of people who will.

On 12/17/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> As promised on the call last night, here  is the link to the NAGDU list.
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 19:32:00 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:32:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS,
	and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS2069AF4265DCCBB4FD9B21F5DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAFC/s+RldpVAu5ebmVUXpTsBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hi,
I also have one more recommendation regarding your text book. If you have a DRC office, you can possibly ask them if you were to buy the EBook for your class, if they could emboss it, or certain chapters. The EBook is pretty cheap at:
http://www.coursesmart.com/what-is-life-a-guide-to-biology/phelan-jay/dp/9781429223188
I don't know if this will help 100%, but I hope it does at least a bit.
Ryan



Ryan Bishop
Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
480-221-5195
Secretary 
Arizona Association of blind students
http://az.nfb.org/aabs
Webmaster
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
http://az.nfb.org
Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind today! For more information, please visit:
http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
or call
1-855-659-9314

The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.

Confidentiality Notice: 
This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 11:25 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: Florida Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] How To Use Blackboard With JAWS, and Where can I get my Biology Book in Braile

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I’m going to be taking a “Introduction of American Government,” and “Concepts of Biology” class next semester, and they involve using Blackboard, and I really don’t know how to use Blackboard with JAWS. Does anyone here knows how to use Blackboard with JAWS? Just wondering. And just to let you know, some assignments in Blackboard are not accessible with JAWS. I actually tried it before, and it didn’t work! Also, I just wanted to ask you, do you know any college, or University, or any place, where I can get or borrow my Biology book in Braille in order to use it for this Spring Semester? Just to let you know, the name of my Biology book is 
What is life?  A  guide to  Edition  1st    Author : J. Phelan Publisher W.H. Freeman and Co
ISBN 13:798-1-4292-2318-8..2318-9 I will really appreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding Blackboard and my Biology book! Thank you so much and God bless!!  



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 19:38:11 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:38:11 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NAGDU List serve link
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4D+0YfFSY9gJgoi2yw00ab_88DOfZ8JY0mo1zOOg8CS7og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <08CDA428-69CB-4849-85B5-2FE27A991E59@gmail.com>
	<CAHox4D+0YfFSY9gJgoi2yw00ab_88DOfZ8JY0mo1zOOg8CS7og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nH8__1QtVVKA+GyvQv_8n_jKk_QKDeFhXsRV8rgqaWXw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thanks for the info.  Last night was a really great call.  Julie and
Arielle, you both provided really good insight.  I'm glad I chose this
to be my first ever NABS conference call.

Best,

Ryan

On 12/17/13, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, if anyone has any questions about guide dogs or preparing for
> guide dog school, feel free to email me off list.  My email address is
> kaybaycar at gmail.com.  I don't mind answering any questions, and if I
> don't know the answer, I know plenty of people who will.
>
> On 12/17/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> As promised on the call last night, here  is the link to the NAGDU list.
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 20:36:36 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
Message-ID: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>

Hello,
I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
Thanks very much,
Josh

Sent from my iPhone

From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 17 20:51:48 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:51:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>

Good morning, Josh,
Sign me up!
thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself 
>and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything 
>can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join 
>as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're 
>interested, please email me privately to this address.
>Thanks very much,
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From jhud7789 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 21:08:45 2013
From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:08:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>

Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Josh,
> Sign me up!
> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>> Thanks very much,
>> Josh
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com


From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 17 21:10:55 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:10:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A Couple More Travel Questions...
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxzjJON1XSZGAPVFQ_VBtMbpSLddwoVT0TZ8hAQ6ZZfLfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217130936.01d6fb08@comcast.net>



Good morning, Kerri,

Sounds like we have things to talk about!
Wanna call me here in Berkeley, California?
cell: 408-209-3239:05 PM 12/9/2013, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone:
>
>First, I want to thank everyone for responding to my last post a
>couple of weeks ago. You have no idea how much your responses helped
>me. It truly made me feel better and encouraged me to know I am not
>alone and others struggle as well. Your responses also made me think
>about a lot of things, and made me realize how I could push myself
>more.
>I have a couple more questions. One thing I worked hahrd on in
>training but still majorly struggle with is mental mapping. For me,
>mental mapping is thinking about and really paying attention to where
>I am going and the turns I make.
>What often happens though is that if I am in a restaurant or somewhere
>I will do well mental mapping part of where I need to go but will
>forget one little detail. Then, because of that one little detail I
>forget I will often get lost.
>For example, if I am in a restaurant and I follow the hostess to my
>seat I will often forget a turn or something and will get lost when
>trying to find the door once it is time to leave.
>Another example is if I am somewhere and I try to find the bathroom
>often I will find the bathroom and then mess up getting back and find
>myself lost unable to find my seat.
>Or, I will go somewhere with someone and when we arive they will give
>me good directions and I'll again remember most of it but then when it
>is time to leave I will forget one little turn or thing and I'll go
>the wrong way.
>This makes me feel very embarrassed and awkward. I wish I had better
>mental mapping skills and these types of things didn't happen. I
>realize travel is not perfect, but I think in my mind I still feel
>awkward and embarrassed when I get lost or don't know where to go.
>Do others struggle with this mental mapping thing? Is it common to
>forget one little thing when you aren't familiar with somewhere and
>get lost?
>What do you do in these situations and how do you keep from feeling
>negative about them?
>When I was in training if this happened the next day I would have
>another travel class and would do something else and so would easily
>move on and make up for whatever mistake I made the day before.
>However, now that I don't get nearly as much practice and
>oppportunities, when I don't do well mental mapping I feel negative.
>Do you just have to tell yourself you will try harder next time and
>laugh it off?
>Another thing I struggle with is when I go to say a basketball game or
>the mall or somewhere by myself sometimes I want/need someone to show
>me where something is and or walk me to my seat and other times if
>something is nearby I just want to get directions and try to
>explore/find it on my own. I notice when I try to ask people to give
>me directions though they often insist I walk with them or they take
>me to where I am trying to go. This is sometimes fine, but I think it
>would help my confidence a lot if sometimes I could just get
>directions and try to go on my own.
>When I was in training if i asked directions and the person wanted to
>take me I would say"I am sorry but I am in training. I'm supposed to
>just get directions."
>However, now that I am not in training anymore when I try to ask for
>directions and the person insists on taking me or walking with me I
>don't know what to say. I'm not in training anymore so...
>How do you handle this? Should I say something like "Actually, thank
>you but I am trying to work on some skills I learned. Please just give
>me directions."
>What do you say to people so you can just get directions?
>Thanks,
>Kerri
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From kobycox at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 21:13:14 2013
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:13:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1500EE66FBDB4A83B43969FCD3AB586A@OwnerPC>

My name Is Koby and I'd like his email address so that I can join this
mailing list that he's referanceing.
Koby.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list

Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address
please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Josh,
> Sign me up!
> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself
and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be
discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics
of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please
email me privately to this address.
>> Thanks very much,
>> Josh
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.n
et
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com



From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 17 21:13:43 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:13:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217131202.01da49f8@comcast.net>

Hi, Joseph, or whomever,

Sorry. I get confused.
Yes, if you have the address with which one subscribes, send it on.
for today, Car01:08 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address 
>please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.
>
>Joseph Hudson
>Email
>jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > Good morning, Josh,
> > Sign me up!
> > thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that 
> myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and 
> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age 
> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes 
> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
> >> Thanks very much,
> >> Josh
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 22:00:37 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:00:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>

If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the email and email me.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.
> 
> Joseph Hudson
> Email
> jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning, Josh,
>> Sign me up!
>> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>>> Thanks very much,
>>> Josh
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 22:01:42 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:01:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8B3A8C00-24B7-4FC5-A73F-46B2BFB5EF91@gmail.com>

Email me privately and I'll get you the info.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, Josh,
> Sign me up!
> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>> Thanks very much,
>> Josh
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 17 22:04:40 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:04:40 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>

Hi, Joshy,

Sign me up, studd!
carlymih at comcast.net
At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the 
>email and email me.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his 
> address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly 
> get it for you.
> >
> > Joseph Hudson
> > Email
> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Good morning, Josh,
> >> Sign me up!
> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that 
> myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and 
> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age 
> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes 
> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
> >>> Thanks very much,
> >>> Josh
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 22:14:25 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:14:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>

My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and I'll get you the subscription info.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Joshy,
> 
> Sign me up, studd!
> carlymih at comcast.net
> At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the email and email me.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.
>> >
>> > Joseph Hudson
>> > Email
>> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Good morning, Josh,
>> >> Sign me up!
>> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>> >>> Thanks very much,
>> >>> Josh
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Tue Dec 17 22:15:14 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:15:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <8B3A8C00-24B7-4FC5-A73F-46B2BFB5EF91@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<8B3A8C00-24B7-4FC5-A73F-46B2BFB5EF91@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52B0CCF2.70102@tysdomain.com>

To clean up this random promotion of a list where anything goes, I'll 
just post the email address. It's really not hard to do this rather than 
refer people to the header after they've already asked for the address.
joshkart12 at gmail.com
On 12/17/2013 5:01 PM, Josh Gregory wrote:
> Email me privately and I'll get you the info.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Good morning, Josh,
>> Sign me up!
>> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>>> Thanks very much,
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.
Sent from my Toaster (tm).



From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 17 22:45:08 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 14:45:08 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
	<78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>



Hi, Joshy,

See, I find adding the ee sound to monosylabic names like Ken, or 
Mike, or John lend a presence of playfullness. So, Joshy, it is? Do 
ya like it?
for today, Car
408-209-323902:14 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and I'll 
>get you the subscription info.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Joshy,
> >
> > Sign me up, studd!
> > carlymih at comcast.net
> > At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the 
> email and email me.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his 
> address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly 
> get it for you.
> >> >
> >> > Joseph Hudson
> >> > Email
> >> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> >> >
> >> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis 
> <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Good morning, Josh,
> >> >> Sign me up!
> >> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> >>> Hello,
> >> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list 
> that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and 
> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age 
> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes 
> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
> >> >>> Thanks very much,
> >> >>> Josh
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 23:22:51 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
	<78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>

Doesn't really matter, a lot of people call me that anyway.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, Joshy,
> 
> See, I find adding the ee sound to monosylabic names like Ken, or Mike, or John lend a presence of playfullness. So, Joshy, it is? Do ya like it?
> for today, Car
> 408-209-323902:14 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and I'll get you the subscription info.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, Joshy,
>> >
>> > Sign me up, studd!
>> > carlymih at comcast.net
>> > At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> >> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the email and email me.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Joseph Hudson
>> >> > Email
>> >> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Good morning, Josh,
>> >> >> Sign me up!
>> >> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>> >> >>> Hello,
>> >> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
>> >> >>> Thanks very much,
>> >> >>> Josh
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 23:57:40 2013
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:57:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
	<78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>
	<EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-swqJHA5Df3fOZzFEPX3K6oXTNZHFHjzukOFgDQcnzuiQ@mail.gmail.com>

All,
Just a few items of attention. Please make sure that you are replying
to the sender, instead of the list. Josh's announcement is great, but
DO NOT hit reply, because that will send it to the NABS-L address, and
it creates unnecessary clutter on an already busy list.
Thank you.
Your moderator.
Mary Fernandez

On 12/17/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't really matter, a lot of people call me that anyway.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Joshy,
>>
>> See, I find adding the ee sound to monosylabic names like Ken, or Mike, or
>> John lend a presence of playfullness. So, Joshy, it is? Do ya like it?
>> for today, Car
>> 408-209-323902:14 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and I'll get
>>> you the subscription info.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi, Joshy,
>>> >
>>> > Sign me up, studd!
>>> > carlymih at comcast.net
>>> > At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> >> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the email
>>> >> and email me.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his address
>>> >> > please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly get it for
>>> >> > you.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Joseph Hudson
>>> >> > Email
>>> >> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Good morning, Josh,
>>> >> >> Sign me up!
>>> >> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> >> >>> Hello,
>>> >> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that
>>> >> >>> myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and
>>> >> >>> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age
>>> >> >>> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes
>>> >> >>> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this
>>> >> >>> address.
>>> >> >>> Thanks very much,
>>> >> >>> Josh
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> >>> for nabs-l:
>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> >> for nabs-l:
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will
forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them
feel."
—
Maya Angelou


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 01:36:04 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 20:36:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-swqJHA5Df3fOZzFEPX3K6oXTNZHFHjzukOFgDQcnzuiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>	<78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>	<EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>
	<CADit0-swqJHA5Df3fOZzFEPX3K6oXTNZHFHjzukOFgDQcnzuiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009001cefb91$84a971d0$8dfc5570$@gmail.com>

Replying to sender si insert shift r, but I think that still replies to the
list.  You really may have to locate the address in the header.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 6:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list

All,
Just a few items of attention. Please make sure that you are replying to the
sender, instead of the list. Josh's announcement is great, but DO NOT hit
reply, because that will send it to the NABS-L address, and it creates
unnecessary clutter on an already busy list.
Thank you.
Your moderator.
Mary Fernandez

On 12/17/13, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't really matter, a lot of people call me that anyway.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Joshy,
>>
>> See, I find adding the ee sound to monosylabic names like Ken, or 
>> Mike, or John lend a presence of playfullness. So, Joshy, it is? Do ya
like it?
>> for today, Car
>> 408-209-323902:14 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and I'll 
>>> get you the subscription info.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis 
>>> > <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi, Joshy,
>>> >
>>> > Sign me up, studd!
>>> > carlymih at comcast.net
>>> > At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> >> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of the 
>>> >> email and email me.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his 
>>> >> > address please feel free to send an email back and I will 
>>> >> > gladly get it for you.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Joseph Hudson
>>> >> > Email
>>> >> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis 
>>> >> >> <carlymih at comcast.net>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Good morning, Josh,
>>> >> >> Sign me up!
>>> >> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>>> >> >>> Hello,
>>> >> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list that 
>>> >> >>> myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and 
>>> >> >>> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age 
>>> >> >>> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes 
>>> >> >>> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to 
>>> >> >>> this address.
>>> >> >>> Thanks very much,
>>> >> >>> Josh
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>> >> >>> info for nabs-l:
>>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%
>>> >> >>> 40comcast.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>> >> >> info for nabs-l:
>>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%4
>>> >> >> 0gmail.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>> >> > info for nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%
>>> >> > 40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >> for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40co
>>> >> mcast.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> > for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40g
>>> > mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comca
>>> st.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmai
>> l.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmai
> l.com
>


--
Mary Fernandez
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what
you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."
-
Maya Angelou

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From carlymih at comcast.net  Wed Dec 18 05:47:55 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:47:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217125122.01d511d8@comcast.net>
	<5C93E876-0502-4A67-90D3-5904E7883008@gmail.com>
	<C5036861-337A-40B5-BCEC-C09246D7870F@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217140345.01dcb1a8@comcast.net>
	<78E1FC16-BD25-45A5-AA22-720122137C37@gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131217144237.01de6548@comcast.net>
	<EE6859C6-DA57-49E8-AA76-E76073A2CCBF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131217214717.01d7f8a8@comcast.net>

So what's the bitch?
At 03:22 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>Doesn't really matter, a lot of people call me that anyway.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi, Joshy,
> >
> > See, I find adding the ee sound to monosylabic names like Ken, or 
> Mike, or John lend a presence of playfullness. So, Joshy, it is? Do ya like it?
> > for today, Car
> > 408-209-323902:14 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> My God nobody ever calls me Joshie LOL, email me off list and 
> I'll get you the subscription info.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Carly Mihalakis 
> <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi, Joshy,
> >> >
> >> > Sign me up, studd!
> >> > carlymih at comcast.net
> >> > At 02:00 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> >> If anybody wants it, find my email address in the header of 
> the email and email me.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Joseph Hudson 
> <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hello Carly, you sent it to the entire list if you need his 
> address please feel free to send an email back and I will gladly 
> get it for you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Joseph Hudson
> >> >> > Email
> >> >> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Dec 17, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Carly Mihalakis 
> <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Good morning, Josh,
> >> >> >> Sign me up!
> >> >> >> thank you.At 12:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
> >> >> >>> Hello,
> >> >> >>> I would like to invite all of you to join a mailing list 
> that myself and a friend run. It is a list in which everything and 
> everything can be discussed, we are looking for college age 
> individuals to join as topics of a mature nature do sometimes 
> arise. If you're interested, please email me privately to this address.
> >> >> >>> Thanks very much,
> >> >> >>> Josh
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
> account info for nabs-l:
> >> >> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
> account info for nabs-l:
> >> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
> account info for nabs-l:
> >> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Dec 18 08:48:51 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 02:48:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Promotion of mailing list
In-Reply-To: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
References: <176A0209-0B6F-4361-946B-DD361A80FEDF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000135893365@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Please contact him off list at:

joshkart12 at gmail.com

At 02:36 PM 12/17/2013, you wrote:
>joshkart12 at gmail.com



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 12:08:41 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 07:08:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>



Hello everyone,
Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda

From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 12:55:38 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:55:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
References: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1k3zYCW4K3gQTNj41DoySQO29nz8Wgv24VA+Qm3h7YoTg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amanda,

If you have the Focus already paired with your phone, press M with the
space bar (also called chord M) to mute voice over.  You may then use
the advance and previous keys on the focus to move through the book.
If you need more help, feel free to e-mail me off list and I will be
more than happy to assist further.  Hope this helps.  Have a lovely
day.

Ryan

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone to
> read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 12:57:10 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 07:57:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
References: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E153423-0BC4-4E8E-B3FE-71A27F7ADFDC@gmail.com>

To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys. HTH.

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 13:38:34 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:38:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1k3zYCW4K3gQTNj41DoySQO29nz8Wgv24VA+Qm3h7YoTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1k3zYCW4K3gQTNj41DoySQO29nz8Wgv24VA+Qm3h7YoTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D4B7CD25-7765-43B3-B7CF-F23BF2CF0EEA@gmail.com>

Hi Ryan,
Thanks. Which keys are those?

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Amanda,
> 
> If you have the Focus already paired with your phone, press M with the
> space bar (also called chord M) to mute voice over.  You may then use
> the advance and previous keys on the focus to move through the book.
> If you need more help, feel free to e-mail me off list and I will be
> more than happy to assist further.  Hope this helps.  Have a lovely
> day.
> 
> Ryan
> 
>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone to
>> read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 13:39:22 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:39:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <3E153423-0BC4-4E8E-B3FE-71A27F7ADFDC@gmail.com>
References: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
	<3E153423-0BC4-4E8E-B3FE-71A27F7ADFDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44BCAB8E-8E2F-4F7D-8FE9-8437EF6B0A05@gmail.com>

Thanks Chris.

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys. HTH.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 14:25:12 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <44BCAB8E-8E2F-4F7D-8FE9-8437EF6B0A05@gmail.com>
References: <29E5F133-4157-479E-BA71-905E79CDC178@gmail.com>
	<3E153423-0BC4-4E8E-B3FE-71A27F7ADFDC@gmail.com>
	<44BCAB8E-8E2F-4F7D-8FE9-8437EF6B0A05@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1n9ZnEJaTPq0GCLFAi+LoaKEhxsaJZe62UnSEACXoy-Qg@mail.gmail.com>

I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
going from memory here.

Ryan

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>> HTH.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
>> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
>>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 14:28:29 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 06:28:29 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>


Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I 
want one so badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille 
display,
similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of 
them.
I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb 
keys,
then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just 
above
the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left 
buttons on
the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so 
vague,
but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
going from memory here.

Ryan

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
 Thanks Chris.

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum 
<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's 
thumb keys.
 HTH.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
 understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make 
your paths
 straight."
 Proverbs 3:5-6

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



 Hello everyone,
 Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with 
my iPhone
 to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
0gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
ra%40gmail.com



--
Ryan L.  Silveira

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 15:03:14 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:03:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>

No, what is it?

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
> going from memory here.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
> 
> Amanda
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
> HTH.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
> 0gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
> ra%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 15:12:53 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
	<F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1=jyv46y-xvVU9rdutcL5up=xauVDxvqJwzXbLt0p0avQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2 is
their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with you; I
want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, what is it?
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so
>> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>
>> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
>> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
>> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
>> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
>> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
>> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
>> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
>> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
>> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
>> going from memory here.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Chris.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>> HTH.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>> paths
>> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>> ra%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L.  Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 16:14:26 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:14:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1=jyv46y-xvVU9rdutcL5up=xauVDxvqJwzXbLt0p0avQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
	<F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1=jyv46y-xvVU9rdutcL5up=xauVDxvqJwzXbLt0p0avQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9CFB191E-112C-40C3-BE03-6A4926C4D0F2@gmail.com>

How is it different than the pacmate or apex?

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2 is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
> 
>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No, what is it?
>> 
>> Amanda
>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so
>>> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>> 
>>> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
>>> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
>>> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
>>> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
>>> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
>>> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
>>> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
>>> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
>>> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
>>> going from memory here.
>>> 
>>> Ryan
>>> 
>>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks Chris.
>>> 
>>> Amanda
>>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>> paths
>>> straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
>>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>>> ra%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Ryan L.  Silveira
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 18 16:24:24 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:24:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
	<F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F11504A0184040698E14868D66BF24DF@OwnerPC>

it’s a small notetaker made by Hymns.

-----Original Message----- 
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:03 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

No, what is it?

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so 
> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
> going from memory here.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Amanda
>
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
> HTH.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> m%40gmail.com
>
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>
>
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
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From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 16:30:06 2013
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:30:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <F11504A0184040698E14868D66BF24DF@OwnerPC>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com><F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
	<F11504A0184040698E14868D66BF24DF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <49D1E3A9E6694651955F679D9241A503@consumerPC>

Yes, there are.
I have a Focus 40 Braille display from Freedom scientific, and it works 
beautifully.  I've not had any problems with it yet.
In fact, the Braille on it is very crisp, and fresh.

email: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone


> it’s a small notetaker made by Hymns.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:03 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> No, what is it?
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so 
>> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>
>> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
>> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
>> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
>> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
>> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
>> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
>> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
>> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
>> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
>> going from memory here.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Chris.
>>
>> Amanda
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>> HTH.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your 
>> paths
>> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>> ra%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L.  Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> 



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 16:35:38 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:35:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <49D1E3A9E6694651955F679D9241A503@consumerPC>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
	<F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
	<F11504A0184040698E14868D66BF24DF@OwnerPC>
	<49D1E3A9E6694651955F679D9241A503@consumerPC>
Message-ID: <77D3AE8B-08BA-4366-B0F0-ADC0C5CA069E@gmail.com>

Doug, how do you get the pages to change properly. It seems to go in order sometimes.but not always.

Amanda

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:30 AM, "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, there are.
> I have a Focus 40 Braille display from Freedom scientific, and it works beautifully.  I've not had any problems with it yet.
> In fact, the Braille on it is very crisp, and fresh.
> 
> email: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> 
>> it’s a small notetaker made by Hymns.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:03 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>> 
>> No, what is it?
>> 
>> Amanda
>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one so badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>> 
>>> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
>>> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
>>> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
>>> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
>>> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
>>> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
>>> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
>>> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
>>> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
>>> going from memory here.
>>> 
>>> Ryan
>>> 
>>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks Chris.
>>> 
>>> Amanda
>>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
>>> straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my iPhone
>>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>>> ra%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Ryan L.  Silveira
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
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>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 16:41:33 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:41:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <77D3AE8B-08BA-4366-B0F0-ADC0C5CA069E@gmail.com>
References: <52b1b126.c18f440a.725a.1045@mx.google.com>
	<F6787CB9-1D2A-4104-8753-7ADF8FF223F4@gmail.com>
	<F11504A0184040698E14868D66BF24DF@OwnerPC>
	<49D1E3A9E6694651955F679D9241A503@consumerPC>
	<77D3AE8B-08BA-4366-B0F0-ADC0C5CA069E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1mioQvt9mFnmepkt6cASJWSZQN3DQC5+bmq4B47PnRB7g@mail.gmail.com>

It's along the same lines as the PacMate or Apex.  It serves the same
function; it's just a different notetaker, made by much, much smarter
people.  Comparing the BrailleNote and Braille Sense is kind of like
comparing Apple with Windows.  They're two different opperating
systems which essentially serve the same function.

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doug, how do you get the pages to change properly. It seems to go in order
> sometimes.but not always.
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 11:30 AM, "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, there are.
>> I have a Focus 40 Braille display from Freedom scientific, and it works
>> beautifully.  I've not had any problems with it yet.
>> In fact, the Braille on it is very crisp, and fresh.
>>
>> email: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett"
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>
>>
>>> it’s a small notetaker made by Hymns.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:03 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>>
>>> No, what is it?
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>>
>>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I want one
>>>> so badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>>>>
>>>> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but I
>>>> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille display,
>>>> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of them.
>>>> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward and
>>>> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb keys,
>>>> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just above
>>>> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left buttons on
>>>> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so vague,
>>>> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind of
>>>> going from memory here.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thanks Chris.
>>>>
>>>> Amanda
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's thumb keys.
>>>> HTH.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>>> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>>> paths
>>>> straight."
>>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with my
>>>> iPhone
>>>> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>>>> ra%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L.  Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>>>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 17:28:37 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:28:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b1db5f.83c9440a.4c62.38f2@mx.google.com>


I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with 
people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called! 
lol


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2 
is
their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with 
you; I
want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
 No, what is it?

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I 
want one so
 badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but 
I
 think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille 
display,
 similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of 
them.
 I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward 
and
 backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb 
keys,
 then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just 
above
 the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left 
buttons on
 the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so 
vague,
 but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind 
of
 going from memory here.

 Ryan

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Thanks Chris.

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum 
<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's 
thumb keys.
 HTH.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
 understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make 
your
 paths
 straight."
 Proverbs 3:5-6

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



 Hello everyone,
 Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with 
my iPhone
 to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 17:28:33 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:28:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b1db5b.83c9440a.4c62.38ed@mx.google.com>


It is a device, better then the Braille Note Apex.  It has 18 
cells and a refreshable braille display.  It has a built in gps, 
can multitask on nine different things, has youtube support, 
(meaning you don't have to convert videos to audio), can support 
nifferent file types,
 can support nemeth code, and my favorite, can use skype's audio 
chat or something like that? I forgot what it was called, but no 
camera required.
I don't have one, but just asked my VI aid about getting me one 
next year and he said yes.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 10:03:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

No, what is it?

Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I 
want one so badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but 
I
 think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille 
display,
 similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of 
them.
 I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward 
and
 backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb 
keys,
 then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just 
above
 the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left 
buttons on
 the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so 
vague,
 but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind 
of
 going from memory here.

 Ryan

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Thanks Chris.

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum 
<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's 
thumb keys.
 HTH.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
 understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make 
your paths
 straight."
 Proverbs 3:5-6

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



 Hello everyone,
 Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with 
my iPhone
 to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Ryan L.  Silveira

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From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 17:40:44 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b1db5f.83c9440a.4c62.38f2@mx.google.com>
References: <52b1db5f.83c9440a.4c62.38f2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nkhoe1eO_XChaRc2NCiwePf3JHzG1A=UPRQMnH-=xn=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype on
there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good option.
Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like Skype is
really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for a
piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull some
strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
>
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>  No, what is it?
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
>  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
>  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
>  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
>  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
>  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb
> keys,
>  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
>  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
>  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
>  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
>  going from memory here.
>
>  Ryan
>
>  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Thanks Chris.
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
>  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
>  HTH.
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
>  paths
>  straight."
>  Proverbs 3:5-6
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>  Hello everyone,
>  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
>  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>  m%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>  0gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>  ra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Ryan L.  Silveira
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>  ife7%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
> 0gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
> ra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 18 19:28:21 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:28:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Accomodations
Message-ID: <9A066F41-5364-4706-B9E3-5AA68755F619@yahoo.com>

Hello, 

I am currently in the process of filling out the necessary paperwork to request accommodations for the GRE test. There are so many accommodations to choose from, and I want to make sure I choose the ones that work the best for me so I don't have to take the test multiple times to receive a score that matches my abilities. I am low vision and some of the accommodations that I use in college include extended time, audio textbooks, and large print. I also use zoom text. Has anyone else with low vision taken the GRE? Or has anyone with low vision taken similar graduate-level assessments? If so, what accommodations worked best for you?

Thank you,

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 20:42:25 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:42:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b208cb.01f6420a.7e1f.5a9d@mx.google.com>


I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a 
piano teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype 
on
there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good 
option.
Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like 
Skype is
really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for 
a
piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull 
some
strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The 
U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:
  No, what is it?

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no 
thumb
 keys,
  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
  going from memory here.

  Ryan

  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
  Thanks Chris.

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
  wrote:

  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
  HTH.

  Chris Nusbaum

  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
  paths
  straight."
  Proverbs 3:5-6

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



  Hello everyone,
  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
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  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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  --
  Ryan L.  Silveira

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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 20:46:07 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
References: <52b208cb.01f6420a.7e1f.5a9d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <13DB9A438CC1495A89C688F50B5B7AC6@robert9999b7cf>

If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone


>
> I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a piano 
> teacher.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype on
> there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good option.
> Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like Skype is
> really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for a
> piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull some
> strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
>
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
>
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>  No, what is it?
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
>  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
>  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
>  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
>  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
>  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb
> keys,
>  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
>  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
>  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
>  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
>  going from memory here.
>
>  Ryan
>
>  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
>  Thanks Chris.
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
>  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
>  HTH.
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
>  paths
>  straight."
>  Proverbs 3:5-6
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>  Hello everyone,
>  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
>  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>  m%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>  0gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
>  ra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Ryan L.  Silveira
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
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>  ife7%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
> 0gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
> ra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> for nabs-l:
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 20:48:46 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:48:46 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b20a48.43da440a.012c.5ea4@mx.google.com>


I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a 
piano
 teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype 
on
 there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good 
option.
 Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like 
Skype is
 really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for 
a
 piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull 
some
 strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The 
U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:
  No, what is it?

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no 
thumb
 keys,
  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
  going from memory here.

  Ryan

  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
  Thanks Chris.

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
  wrote:

  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
  HTH.

  Chris Nusbaum

  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
  paths
  straight."
  Proverbs 3:5-6

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



  Hello everyone,
  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:


 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
  m%40gmail.com

  _______________________________________________
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  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:


 
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  0gmail.com

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  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
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  ra%40gmail.com



  --
  Ryan L.  Silveira

  _______________________________________________
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  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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  ife7%40gmail.com

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  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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 0gmail.com

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 ra%40gmail.com



 --
 Ryan L.  Silveira

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 for nabs-l:

 
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 ife7%40gmail.com

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 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 nabs-l:

 
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 ra%40gmail.com



 --
 Ryan L.  Silveira

 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 20:58:15 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b20a48.43da440a.012c.5ea4@mx.google.com>
References: <52b20a48.43da440a.012c.5ea4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1=QhhyUf6Uhn7eGLCrt7chrW2YQncm6OOhnGfm7cS2XsQ@mail.gmail.com>

If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would definitely
look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one anyway for
school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on it if
you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some fun) or
if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If you
have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype on
any and all of those devices.

On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>
>
>  I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
> piano
>  teacher.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>  Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
> on
>  there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
> option.
>  Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
> Skype is
>  really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
> a
>  piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
> some
>  strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
>
>  On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
>  people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
>  lol
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>  It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
> U2
>  is
>  their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
>  you; I
>  want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
>
>  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>   No, what is it?
>
>   Amanda
>
>   On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
>  <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>   Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
>  want one so
>   badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>   I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
>  I
>   think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
>  display,
>   similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
>  them.
>   I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
>  and
>   backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
> thumb
>  keys,
>   then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
>  above
>   the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
>  buttons on
>   the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
>  vague,
>   but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
>  of
>   going from memory here.
>
>   Ryan
>
>   On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>   Thanks Chris.
>
>   Amanda
>
>   On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
>  <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>   wrote:
>
>   To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
>  thumb keys.
>   HTH.
>
>   Chris Nusbaum
>
>   "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>   understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
>  your
>   paths
>   straight."
>   Proverbs 3:5-6
>
>   Sent from my iPhone
>
>   On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>   Hello everyone,
>   Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
>  my iPhone
>   to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  info for
>   nabs-l:
>
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>   m%40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  info for
>   nabs-l:
>
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>   0gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>  info for
>   nabs-l:
>
>
>
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>   ra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>   --
>   Ryan L.  Silveira
>
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From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 21:00:21 2013
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:00:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
References: <52b20a48.43da440a.012c.5ea4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E8FC7F15066940589900F7861AD00A68@robert9999b7cf>

I've seen the U2 and the Apex, and the Apex was harder for me. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone


>
> I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>
>
> I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a piano
> teacher.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype on
> there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good option.
> Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like Skype is
> really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for a
> piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull some
> strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
>
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
>
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>  No, what is it?
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
>  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
>
>  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
>  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
>  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
>  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
>  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no thumb
> keys,
>  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
>  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
>  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
>  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
>  going from memory here.
>
>  Ryan
>
>  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
>  Thanks Chris.
>
>  Amanda
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
>  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
>  HTH.
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
>  paths
>  straight."
>  Proverbs 3:5-6
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>  Hello everyone,
>  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
>  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
>
>  --
>  Ryan L.  Silveira
>
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> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
>
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 21:06:36 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:06:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b20e76.a363440a.31c9.6030@mx.google.com>


I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The 
Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my 
assignments and I reply in return.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would 
definitely
look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one 
anyway for
school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on it 
if
you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some 
fun) or
if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If 
you
have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype 
on
any and all of those devices.

On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



  I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for 
a
 piano
  teacher.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
 on
  there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
 option.
  Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
 Skype is
  really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking 
for
 a
  piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
 some
  strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

  On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

  I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
  people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
  lol


   ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
 U2
  is
  their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
  you; I
  want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
   No, what is it?

   Amanda

   On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
  <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


   Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
  want one so
   badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
   Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

   I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, 
but
  I
   think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
  display,
   similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four 
of
  them.
   I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
  and
   backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
 thumb
  keys,
   then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
  above
   the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
  buttons on
   the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
  vague,
   but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
  of
   going from memory here.

   Ryan

   On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
  wrote:
   Thanks Chris.

   Amanda

   On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
  <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
   wrote:

   To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
  thumb keys.
   HTH.

   Chris Nusbaum

   "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your 
own
   understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will 
make
  your
   paths
   straight."
   Proverbs 3:5-6

   Sent from my iPhone

   On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



   Hello everyone,
   Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display 
with
  my iPhone
   to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
   _______________________________________________
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   --
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Ryan L.  Silveira

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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 21:06:41 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:06:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b20e7a.a363440a.31c9.603a@mx.google.com>


Was the u2 a smaller then the Apex?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:00:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

I've seen the U2 and the Apex, and the Apex was harder for me.  
RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a 
piano
 teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype 
on
 there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good 
option.
 Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like 
Skype is
 really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for 
a
 piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull 
some
 strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The 
U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:
  No, what is it?

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no 
thumb
 keys,
  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
  going from memory here.

  Ryan

  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
  Thanks Chris.

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
  wrote:

  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
  HTH.

  Chris Nusbaum

  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
  paths
  straight."
  Proverbs 3:5-6

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



  Hello everyone,
  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
  _______________________________________________
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 18 21:38:38 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b20e76.a363440a.31c9.6030@mx.google.com>
References: <52b20e76.a363440a.31c9.6030@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS3800C04E58B109980B4079F5DA0@phx.gbl>

Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works great! You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)   

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my assignments and I reply in return.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would definitely
> look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one anyway for
> school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on it if
> you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some fun) or
> if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If you
> have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype on
> any and all of those devices.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
> piano
> teacher.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
> on
> there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
> option.
> Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
> Skype is
> really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
> a
> piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
> some
> strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
> 
> 
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
> U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
>  No, what is it?
> 
>  Amanda
> 
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
>  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
> 
> 
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
>  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
>  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
>  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
>  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
>  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
> thumb
> keys,
>  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
>  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
>  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
>  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
>  going from memory here.
> 
>  Ryan
> 
>  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
>  Thanks Chris.
> 
>  Amanda
> 
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  wrote:
> 
>  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
>  HTH.
> 
>  Chris Nusbaum
> 
>  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
>  paths
>  straight."
>  Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  Hello everyone,
>  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
>  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>  m%40gmail.com
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
>  0gmail.com
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
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> 
> 
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>  ra%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>  --
>  Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
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>  ife7%40gmail.com
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
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> 0gmail.com
> 
>  _______________________________________________
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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> for nabs-l:
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 21:57:10 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:57:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b21a50.a8df440a.7582.6e86@mx.google.com>


Are't you on the other list too? lol
No way I can get anything else


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works great! 
You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the 
IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The 
Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my 
assignments and I reply in return.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would 
definitely
 look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one 
anyway for
 school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on 
it if
 you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some 
fun) or
 if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If 
you
 have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype 
on
 any and all of those devices.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
 piano
 teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
 on
 there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
 option.
 Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
 Skype is
 really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
 a
 piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
 some
 strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
 U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
  No, what is it?

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


  Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
  badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

  I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
  think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
  similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
  I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
  backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
 thumb
 keys,
  then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
  the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
  the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
  but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
  going from memory here.

  Ryan

  On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
  Thanks Chris.

  Amanda

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
  wrote:

  To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
  HTH.

  Chris Nusbaum

  "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
  understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
  paths
  straight."
  Proverbs 3:5-6

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



  Hello everyone,
  Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
  to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 18 23:21:29 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:21:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Accomodations
In-Reply-To: <9A066F41-5364-4706-B9E3-5AA68755F619@yahoo.com>
References: <9A066F41-5364-4706-B9E3-5AA68755F619@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBKt_3cgg3iLnXGk-=ZHQ4MirT2GEQzmN=3TjZVWiH_mg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbi,

I don't have low vision, but in general I would suggest requesting the
GRE accommodations that most closely resemble the accommodations you
use to take tests in college. So if you use a large print test most of
the time, request that; if you usually take tests on the computer with
ZoomText then request that instead if it's allowed. If you usually
take tests with readers, then you can request that too. Best of luck!
Arielle

On 12/18/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am currently in the process of filling out the necessary paperwork to
> request accommodations for the GRE test. There are so many accommodations to
> choose from, and I want to make sure I choose the ones that work the best
> for me so I don't have to take the test multiple times to receive a score
> that matches my abilities. I am low vision and some of the accommodations
> that I use in college include extended time, audio textbooks, and large
> print. I also use zoom text. Has anyone else with low vision taken the GRE?
> Or has anyone with low vision taken similar graduate-level assessments? If
> so, what accommodations worked best for you?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 00:00:43 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:00:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the Empowering Blind Students in Science and
	Engineering Workshop!
Message-ID: <CACUFQdyPS7+QjGyM3vtj=w6L2MKv1QsGUCKs3QAV-_G64O=HwA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am excited to announce the Empowering Blind Students in Science and
Engineering workshop for blind students pursuing careers in science,
technology, engineering, and math (stem)!

This workshop is being conducted by Professor Richard Ladner from the
University of Washington Computer Science and Engineering Department
in conjunction with The Fetzer Institute, a nonprofit that sponsors
educational programs.

This workshop will combine three groups of people—blind students,
mentors, and industry professionals. Students will be mentored by
successful blind professionals in stem fields, participate in
professional development activities, and network with industry
professionals.

When: Monday and Tuesday, June 2 and 3, 2014
Where: Seattle, WA

Blind students who will be at least 18 years of age by the date of the
workshop, who are in high school or college, and who are planning to
or who are already pursuing a stem-related degree may apply. Please
visit our website for instructions on applying.
http://ebsse.cs.washington.edu/

We will select approximately 15 students to participate in this
expenses-paid opportunity.

Please feel free to email me at work with questions regarding this workshop.
bennec3 at cs.washington.edu

Please also pass this announcement on to other blind students!


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 19 00:20:14 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:20:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b21a50.a8df440a.7582.6e86@mx.google.com>
References: <52b21a50.a8df440a.7582.6e86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS815D72377572972A23E37DF5C50@phx.gbl>

Hey Marissa! Yeah, I'm in the other list as well! By the way, how do u read and write emails from your BrailleNote Apex? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!!  :-)  Sent from  my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:57 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Are't you on the other list too? lol
> No way I can get anything else
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works great! You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my assignments and I reply in return.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would definitely
> look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one anyway for
> school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on it if
> you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some fun) or
> if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If you
> have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype on
> any and all of those devices.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
> piano
> teacher.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
> on
> there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
> option.
> Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
> Skype is
> really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
> a
> piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
> some
> strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
> U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
> No, what is it?
> 
> Amanda
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
> thumb
> keys,
> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
> going from memory here.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
> 
> Amanda
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
> HTH.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
> paths
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
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> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksa
> ndefur%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 00:26:19 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:26:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b23d45.a642420a.091d.ffff8bc1@mx.google.com>


I thought you have one?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:20:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

Hey Marissa! Yeah, I'm in the other list as well! By the way, how 
do u read and write emails from your BrailleNote Apex? Just 
curious! Thanks and God bless!!  :-)  Sent from  my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:57 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Are't you on the other list too? lol
 No way I can get anything else


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works 
great! You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the 
IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The 
Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my 
assignments and I reply in return.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would 
definitely
 look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one 
anyway for
 school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on 
it if
 you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some 
fun) or
 if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If 
you
 have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype 
on
 any and all of those devices.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
 piano
 teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
 on
 there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
 option.
 Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
 Skype is
 really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
 a
 piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
 some
 strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
 U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
 No, what is it?

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
 badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
 think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
 similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
 I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
 backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
 thumb
 keys,
 then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
 the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
 the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
 but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
 going from memory here.

 Ryan

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
 Thanks Chris.

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
 HTH.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
 understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
 paths
 straight."
 Proverbs 3:5-6

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



 Hello everyone,
 Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
 to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
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 Ryan L.  Silveira

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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 19 00:33:12 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:33:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
In-Reply-To: <52b23d45.a642420a.091d.ffff8bc1@mx.google.com>
References: <52b23d45.a642420a.091d.ffff8bc1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS3682B0077FA3F18B502F3FF5C50@phx.gbl>

Yeah, I do! 

Sent from my iPhoom  Dec 18, 2013, at 7:27 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I thought you have one?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:20:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Hey Marissa! Yeah, I'm in the other list as well! By the way, how do u read and write emails from your BrailleNote Apex? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!!  :-)  Sent from  my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:57 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Are't you on the other list too? lol
> No way I can get anything else
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works great! You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my assignments and I reply in return.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would definitely
> look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one anyway for
> school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on it if
> you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some fun) or
> if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If you
> have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype on
> any and all of those devices.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
> piano
> teacher.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
> on
> there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
> option.
> Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
> Skype is
> really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
> a
> piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
> some
> strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.
> 
> On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
> people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
> lol
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
> U2
> is
> their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
> you; I
> want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
> No, what is it?
> 
> Amanda
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
> <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
> want one so
> badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
> 
> I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
> I
> think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
> display,
> similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
> them.
> I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
> and
> backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
> thumb
> keys,
> then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
> above
> the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
> buttons on
> the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
> vague,
> but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
> of
> going from memory here.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
> wrote:
> Thanks Chris.
> 
> Amanda
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> wrote:
> 
> To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
> thumb keys.
> HTH.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
> your
> paths
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
> my iPhone
> to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%4
> 0gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silvei
> ra%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ryan L.  Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
> 
> 
> 
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 01:12:32 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 17:12:32 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone
Message-ID: <52b2481b.e45a440a.58f1.ffff9a0b@mx.google.com>


Go into keymail and explore the options.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:33:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

Yeah, I do!

Sent from my iPhoom  Dec 18, 2013, at 7:27 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 I thought you have one?


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:20:14 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Hey Marissa! Yeah, I'm in the other list as well! By the way, 
how do u read and write emails from your BrailleNote Apex? Just 
curious! Thanks and God bless!!  :-)  Sent from  my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:57 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Are't you on the other list too? lol
 No way I can get anything else


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:38:38 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Hey!! Marissa! What's up? I have the iPhone 5 and it works 
great! You know that you can connect your BrailleNote Apex to the 
IPhone! Thanks and God bless!! :-)

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 4:07 PM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 I don't have any of those and won't ever get any of those.  The 
Apex does all I need for school and more.  Teachers email me my 
assignments and I reply in return.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 14:58:15 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If you're really interested in using Skype, then I would 
definitely
 look into getting a computer.  It would be good to have one 
anyway for
 school.  You're going to need it.  You can get JAWS or NVDA on 
it if
 you have a PC (or Window-Eyes if you really want to have some 
fun) or
 if you get a Mac, it comes with Voiceover already installed.  If 
you
 have an iPod touch, iPad, iPad Mini or iPhone, you can use skype 
on
 any and all of those devices.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't use skype.  I only have an Apex, which doesn't do much.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "RJ Sandefur" <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:46:07 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 If I may ask do you use skype, and what do you use it for? RJ
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone



 I don't have anything beside the Apex.  I don't have money for a
 piano
 teacher.


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:40:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 Do you have a laptop, Marissa?  You'd be better off using Skype
 on
 there.  As for learning piano on Skype...not really a good
 option.
 Learning any kind of instrument through a virtual medium like
 Skype is
 really not a very good way to learn.  You should try looking for
 a
 piano teacher.  What state are you in?  I might be able to pull
 some
 strings.  I'm not sure, but I could give it a try.

 On 12/18/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:

 I half need, half want one.  lol I want to chat on skype with
 people and learn piano.  Voice chat! That's what's it's called!
 lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:12:53 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 It's a notetaker in the Braille Sense line, made by Hims.  The
 U2
 is
 their latest and greatest model.  Marissa, I'm right there with
 you; I
 want one so badly.  I don't really "need" one, but I want it.

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
 No, what is it?

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, marissa
 <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Don't mean to intrude, but have any of you heard of the u2? I
 want one so
 badly, compared to the Apex, the Apex stinks lol


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 08:25:12 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Focus 40 use with iPhone

 I honestly can't recall; I haven't seen a Focus in a while, but
 I
 think there are thumb keys on the front edge of the braille
 display,
 similar to those on a BraillleNote.  There are probably four of
 them.
 I believe it's the two middle ones that will move you forward
 and
 backward through the book.  If I am wrong and there are no
 thumb
 keys,
 then there are probably two rows of really little buttons just
 above
 the braille display.  The furthest right and furthest left
 buttons on
 the bottom row will do the same thing.  I'm sorry this is so
 vague,
 but I haven't seen a Focus in a couple years, so I'm just kind
 of
 going from memory here.

 Ryan

 On 12/18/13, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com
 wrote:
 Thanks Chris.

 Amanda

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:57 AM, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 To read a book line by line, just use the Braille display's
 thumb keys.
 HTH.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
 understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make
 your
 paths
 straight."
 Proverbs 3:5-6

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 18, 2013, at 7:08 AM, cape.amanda at gmail.com wrote:



 Hello everyone,
 Can anyone tell me how to use the focus 40 Braille display with
 my iPhone
 to read a book line by line with VoiceOver muted?Amanda
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From piano.girl0299 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 02:05:43 2013
From: piano.girl0299 at gmail.com (Kelsey Nicolay)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:05:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
Message-ID: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>

Hello,
I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like 
people's opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot 
drive, my mom or sister drive me to my doctors appointments.  I 
have no problem with that, but when I go for my physicals, my mom 
still goes back in the room with me.  I'm an adult, so shouldn't 
I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do go to the doctor by 
yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle filling out 
paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but what 
has been your experience with attending doctor visits by 
yourself? Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the 
dentist because I have known them forever.  Thoughts?
Thanks,


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Thu Dec 19 02:16:34 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:16:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <52B25702.1000300@tysdomain.com>

Hello:
You can either have the receptionist or the nurse help you fill out 
paperwork. Also, if you want your mom to stay behind, you may just be 
able to say like "I'll be right back," or "hey, can you hold this while 
I'm back there?" If she's going to get something like that, otherwise it 
may just be worth saying something depending on what kind of messages 
she'd be best receiving.

HTH,
On 12/18/2013 9:05 PM, Kelsey Nicolay wrote:
> Hello,
> I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like 
> people's opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot drive, my 
> mom or sister drive me to my doctors appointments.  I have no problem 
> with that, but when I go for my physicals, my mom still goes back in 
> the room with me.  I'm an adult, so shouldn't I be allowed to go back 
> by myself? If you do go to the doctor by yourself using transit or 
> whatever, how do you handle filling out paperwork and stuff like that? 
> Again, this is off topic, but what has been your experience with 
> attending doctor visits by yourself? Were the staff helpful? I go back 
> by myself at the dentist because I have known them forever.  Thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.
Sent from my Toaster (tm).



From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 19 02:18:10 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:18:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A66DD8B6-2397-4019-95AC-038066D941CD@yahoo.com>

Hello, I go to the doctor by myself all the time. Actually just went today ironically enough. When I go I just make sure I have my cane with me and asked the receptionist for help. If I have to fill out paperwork either the receptionist will help me, a clerk or something will help me, or the nurse will help me once I'm in my room. And typically once you've been to a place one time, you typically don't have to fill out paper work each time you goo. 

I hope this helps!  

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like people's opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot drive, my mom or sister drive me to my doctors appointments.  I have no problem with that, but when I go for my physicals, my mom still goes back in the room with me.  I'm an adult, so shouldn't I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do go to the doctor by yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle filling out paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but what has been your experience with attending doctor visits by yourself? Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the dentist because I have known them forever.  Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 02:55:18 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:55:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <A66DD8B6-2397-4019-95AC-038066D941CD@yahoo.com>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
	<A66DD8B6-2397-4019-95AC-038066D941CD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdxP=oR8rJppu4gRTvSsr1E4UbrO4dh4W5OxQJR7+wcvPw@mail.gmail.com>

This is all good advice, and you certainly have the right to go back
by yourself and for everything to remain confidential. I have found
that the staff at my drs. are always very helpful. I think that since
drs. are people who are going to know the most personal things about
you, so find one that's cool with blindness!

Cindy

On 12/18/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello, I go to the doctor by myself all the time. Actually just went today
> ironically enough. When I go I just make sure I have my cane with me and
> asked the receptionist for help. If I have to fill out paperwork either the
> receptionist will help me, a clerk or something will help me, or the nurse
> will help me once I'm in my room. And typically once you've been to a place
> one time, you typically don't have to fill out paper work each time you goo.
>
>
> I hope this helps!
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like people's
>> opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot drive, my mom or sister
>> drive me to my doctors appointments.  I have no problem with that, but
>> when I go for my physicals, my mom still goes back in the room with me.
>> I'm an adult, so shouldn't I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do go
>> to the doctor by yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle
>> filling out paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but
>> what has been your experience with attending doctor visits by yourself?
>> Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the dentist because I have
>> known them forever.  Thoughts?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From NMPBRAT at aol.com  Thu Dec 19 03:20:25 2013
From: NMPBRAT at aol.com (NMPBRAT at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:20:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Accomodations
Message-ID: <965e2.69a2cd90.3fe3bff9@aol.com>

I too am low vision and took the GRE.  I chose to take it  with large print 
and extended time.  I chose those accommodations  for a couple reasons.  
One was because it was simply the  accommodations I typically used otherwise 
for testing.  Secondly, I was a  little concerned about taking it by 
computer, as some tests that are set up on  computers don't allow you to return to 
previous questions...and with a   paper based test, you always have that 
option.  
Ultimately, you'll have to do what works best for  you!!
Good luck!
Nicole
 
 
In a message dated 12/18/2013 2:28:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
pompey2010 at yahoo.com writes:

Hello,  

I am currently in the process of filling out the necessary paperwork  to 
request accommodations for the GRE test. There are so many accommodations  to 
choose from, and I want to make sure I choose the ones that work the best  
for me so I don't have to take the test multiple times to receive a score 
that  matches my abilities. I am low vision and some of the accommodations that 
I  use in college include extended time, audio textbooks, and large print. 
I also  use zoom text. Has anyone else with low vision taken the GRE? Or has 
anyone  with low vision taken similar graduate-level assessments? If so, 
what  accommodations worked best for you?

Thank you,

Bobbi A. L.  Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com  
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
_______________________________________________
nabs-l  mailing  list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nmpbrat%40aol.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 19 03:45:38 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:45:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6418C5D5DD234BD89B51AB85A92A990C@OwnerPC>

Hey Kelsey,
I'm sort of in the same position. I'm not on my own, but hope to once I have 
a job and save money.
Transit comes infrequently on some routes, and even if I were alone, I'd 
rather not rely on public or paratransit for something as crucial as a 
doctor's visit. This is because they take indirect routes and you cannot 
count on being somewhere at a certain time. You need to be a little early 
for visits to check in and things like that.
So, if I were on my own, I'd probably get a volunteer to drive me; it may be 
someone from a nonprofit, church, a neighbor, or even the lighthouse for the 
blind.
I'd just rather avoid the uncertainty of transit if possible.

So, its fine to have your folks take you to the doctor's office.
However, I would not have them go back to the actual office with you.
Have you talked to your mom about this? Is she insisting on being with you?
Yes, as an adult you have the right to go back alone.
I finally spoke up to my parents about this and they do respect my desire.
So I go back alone. It’s a family practice office.
What happens is you check in and then wait for them to call you.
So, I wait my turn. Once they call me, I go back. I just walk sighted guide 
with them to the office. Then, the nurse does his or her thing and records 
the info on vital signs,
and then I wait for the doctor in the medical exam room.
I usually can see where the exam table is and if they need to weigh me, I 
see that.
But, if I were totally blind, I'd just ask them to tell me where it was and 
walk over to it.
When we finish the visit, they take me back to the waiting room using 
sighted guide.

Good question on paperwork.
After you sign up with a doctor, you usually do not need to fill out papers. 
You will do it if you get a shot or something other than a routine physical.
I'm not sure what to say because I have had a family member assist me as you 
have done.
Such stuff is real private, and I'm uncomfortable sharing it with a 
stranger. I guess I'd ask the office staff to assist me if I did not have a 
sighted person I trusted with me.

How do you all read papers they give you? Just scan it? Sometimes I get 
papers to state results of lab work
or  info on a condition I have if I go to the cvs clinic.
If I go to the clinic to get checked out for a sore throat, they give me 
papers based on what they did with the summary of what happened and the 
charge.

So far, I've used my family as readers, or if the paper does not involve 
numbers, I scan it.

Some doctors offices have online accounts where you can check your medical 
records there such as your lab results, and this is something you might want 
to ask about. It may not be accessible though.
I believe my doctor has one, but I do not need the doctor much, so have not 
bothered to try their online system.
I've heard many medical systems are inaccessible so it would not surprise me 
if it does not work.

Anyway, I've thought about trying it out though, since if it works, I would 
have an online record of my lab work, and would not have to remember when I 
last had it checked, since the computer would tell me.

Anyway, Kelsey, let your parents know you would like some independence. 
Perhaps, your mom hasn't thought about you doing it yourself. Mothers are 
like this particularly if they have always done it for you, they do not 
think to step back once you are grown.

One more thing. If you  have to sign papers, be sure to have someone, 
probably a nurse, read you the form and be sure you understand what you are 
signing. They might try to just give you a two sentence thing to say this is 
about xx procedure you are having. No, get more details before signing. But, 
if you are healthy and are primarily going for physicals, you should not 
have much issues with papers or access issues like that. Its just a routine 
visit.

HTH,
Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Kelsey Nicolay
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:05 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments

Hello,
I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like
people's opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot
drive, my mom or sister drive me to my doctors appointments.  I
have no problem with that, but when I go for my physicals, my mom
still goes back in the room with me.  I'm an adult, so shouldn't
I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do go to the doctor by
yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle filling out
paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but what
has been your experience with attending doctor visits by
yourself? Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the
dentist because I have known them forever.  Thoughts?
Thanks,

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 03:48:13 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:48:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdxP=oR8rJppu4gRTvSsr1E4UbrO4dh4W5OxQJR7+wcvPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
	<A66DD8B6-2397-4019-95AC-038066D941CD@yahoo.com>
	<CACUFQdxP=oR8rJppu4gRTvSsr1E4UbrO4dh4W5OxQJR7+wcvPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDgctA8tJf-tzZfptrN_TTrqfuQUxiDFHTuApW9w+A3Zg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kelsey,

When I was living at home during college breaks, my parents would take
me to doctors' and dentists' appointments. I actually sat my mom down
one day when I was 21 and told her that it was her choice whether to
drive me to these appointments or to let me take a cab/public transit,
but that if she wanted to drive me I really preferred her to stay in
the waiting room and read or do something else while I was back in the
doctor's office. I was really nervous about having this conversation
but it went fine and I felt much more comfortable discussing personal
health issues with my doctors without my mom or dad being there. This
is especially important for gynecology appointments, or for medical
decisions you make which your parents might not agree with.
When I moved to Boulder I got set up with new doctors and I go to all
my appointments now by myself. The receptionists help me fill out
forms, or the nurses take down my history etc. during the initial
intake. Much of what goes on the form is insurance info, so if you
give the receptionist your insurance card they can usually get most of
what they need by making a copy of it. Also, some doctors' offices
have online forms for new patients, so if you start with someone new,
you should Google their name and see if you can complete the paperwork
online before your first visit.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/18/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is all good advice, and you certainly have the right to go back
> by yourself and for everything to remain confidential. I have found
> that the staff at my drs. are always very helpful. I think that since
> drs. are people who are going to know the most personal things about
> you, so find one that's cool with blindness!
>
> Cindy
>
> On 12/18/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello, I go to the doctor by myself all the time. Actually just went
>> today
>> ironically enough. When I go I just make sure I have my cane with me and
>> asked the receptionist for help. If I have to fill out paperwork either
>> the
>> receptionist will help me, a clerk or something will help me, or the
>> nurse
>> will help me once I'm in my room. And typically once you've been to a
>> place
>> one time, you typically don't have to fill out paper work each time you
>> goo.
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps!
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>
>>> On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like people's
>>> opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot drive, my mom or
>>> sister
>>> drive me to my doctors appointments.  I have no problem with that, but
>>> when I go for my physicals, my mom still goes back in the room with me.
>>> I'm an adult, so shouldn't I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do
>>> go
>>> to the doctor by yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle
>>> filling out paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but
>>> what has been your experience with attending doctor visits by yourself?
>>> Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the dentist because I
>>> have
>>> known them forever.  Thoughts?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> clb5590 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From joy.misto at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 03:53:43 2013
From: joy.misto at gmail.com (Joy Mistovich)
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:53:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Accommodations
Message-ID: <CAMRTQM4UOcaadX3ZLsmpVe5gEtU=ArHNmU-wZ6+3vYAHzVZ1MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbi,
My name is Joy Mistovich, and I am also visually impaired; I recently took
the GRE on November 25, and I requested 15 minutes extended time for each
section as well as ZoomText. I had to take the test, since I am applying to
a few PhD programs in English, but each of the schools I am applying to
didn't require a specific score per se. However, in your case, its a
different story.I checked again to make sure I was correct before I wrote
this e-mail.In the U. S. the computer based test is only offered; the paper
based test is only offered in regions where computers aren't as
commonplace. In other words, I remember you said you use audio textbooks
for your college courses, and luckily having an audio recording is one of
the options, and it also comes with tactile figures. I'm not sure how
proficient you are at identifying tactile figures, but you could definitely
try it.
One final thing and this is extremely important: Once your accommodations
have been approved, before you can register online to take the test, you
have to first call the national prometric number, tell them your
accommodations, and then you can register on the phone with the test date.
I wasn't aware that I had to call the company first in order to register
with them; instead I went online to register at my nearest testing site
with one of the soonest available dates, and then I called Prometric on the
Thursday before my test. This was absolutely a huge mess, and at first the
lady I spoke to told me I would have to cancel my testing date and
reschedule to another date because the accommodations wouldn't be offered
at that time. I really panicked in that moment because the majority of PhD
programs I am applying to had a deadline at the beginning of December, ad
if I didn't take the test by the end of November, I would have to wait over
a year to apply. . I explained my entire situation to her, and in the end,
she talked to her supervisor and made an exception for me to still be able
to take the test on that same day. What a relief! Finally, just to warn
you, when you go in on the testing day, Zoomtext won't be at all what you
are used to. The program is an extremely simplified version and only offers
a magnification feature, not other options to change the mouse pointer,
etc. I was at a great disadvantage because of this: I use a Mac with Zoom
and am not familiar with Windows, and more significantly, there wasn't any
contrast to the mouse at all. It was only white on white. For me taking
this test was extremely challenging, and you will probably have to jump
through several hurdles to get the accommodations that are most necessary
for you. In my opinion, ETS needs to make the GRE more accessible for the
visually impaired!!!
I hope my e-mail was helpful for you to understand a little bit more about
the GRE.
Good luck!
Joy

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 18:47:31 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:47:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
accessible with a screenreader.

I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
experience with this program?


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 20:13:33 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 14:13:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83418532-EF42-4FC4-A470-61CE4E42D53D@gmail.com>

Hi Julie,

As far as I know, One Note and Share Point are not accessible at all.  I'n not familiar with Voice Thread, but I would be glad to do some research if you like.  I can also look into some alternative software options that pretty much perform the same functions.  Hope this helps.


Ryan 


On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good afternoon,
> 
> I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
> following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
> 
> My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
> things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
> accessible with a screenreader.
> 
> I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
> implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
> launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
> classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
> hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
> of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
> experience with this program?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 20:20:51 2013
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:20:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <83418532-EF42-4FC4-A470-61CE4E42D53D@gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<83418532-EF42-4FC4-A470-61CE4E42D53D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdy2Vs39Mp2Xfk=orSh9NaPpF7S00KFG=iwwUPjF1-8woA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I used a bit of Share Point in the fall of 2010, so this info is
dated. I honestly did not use many features of the system and don't
really even know what you can do with Share Point. I just checked out
documents and returned them and was able to do so. It may have not
been immediately intuitive, but I know that I was able to do so.
Checking out and returning documents is kind of like saying, I'm going
to work on this document right now, and when I return it, it will be
updated and someone else can work on it. Like I said, my experience
was minimal and knowledge dated.

Cindy

On 12/19/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Julie,
>
> As far as I know, One Note and Share Point are not accessible at all.  I'n
> not familiar with Voice Thread, but I would be glad to do some research if
> you like.  I can also look into some alternative software options that
> pretty much perform the same functions.  Hope this helps.
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Dec 19, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
>> following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>>
>> My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
>> things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
>> accessible with a screenreader.
>>
>> I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
>> implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
>> launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
>> classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
>> hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
>> of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
>> experience with this program?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
Secretary: National Association of Blind Students

B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
clb5590 at gmail.com


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Thu Dec 19 21:37:22 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:37:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000015803665@mailback4.g2host.com>

Julie,

I have to use Sharepoint some, and all in all I would say it is accessible.  Information is presented in web pages 
and I don't find them all that intuitive or easy to use, but the information is there.  A lot of access keys are 
used but these keys don't always work as well with screen readers as one would hope.  When you work with documents 
in SharePoint, you usually use the native program that goes with the documents like Word or Excel etc.  What is 
sometimes a little confusing is that some aspects of SharePoint become part of Microsoft Office products.  For 
example, if one checks out a document in Sharepoint to edit, let's say an Excel spreadsheet, and then you make 
changes and save it, you will get an extra dialog inside of Excel asking if you want to keep the document checked 
out or check it back in.  In other words, you have to be on your toes in case something extra happens.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:47:31 -0600, Julie McGinnity wrote:

>Good afternoon,

>I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
>following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

>My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
>things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
>accessible with a screenreader.

>I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
>implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
>launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
>classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
>hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
>of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
>experience with this program?


>-- 
>Julie McG
>National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>life."
>John 3:16

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Dec 19 22:27:28 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:27:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
 and Voice  Thread
In-Reply-To: <auto-000015803665@mailback4.g2host.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000015803665@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000136688676@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Steve is right, as always.  It depends in part on the version of 
Sharepoint, 2010 or 2013, or something else.  Later is better.  I 
have seen setups where there is an accessibility link.  The screens 
tend to be very busy, lots of stuff, but mostly it works.

Dave

At 03:37 PM 12/19/2013, you wrote:
>Julie,
>
>I have to use Sharepoint some, and all in all I would say it is 
>accessible.  Information is presented in web pages
>and I don't find them all that intuitive or easy to use, but the 
>information is there.  A lot of access keys are
>used but these keys don't always work as well with screen readers as 
>one would hope.  When you work with documents
>in SharePoint, you usually use the native program that goes with the 
>documents like Word or Excel etc.  What is
>sometimes a little confusing is that some aspects of SharePoint 
>become part of Microsoft Office products.  For
>example, if one checks out a document in Sharepoint to edit, let's 
>say an Excel spreadsheet, and then you make
>changes and save it, you will get an extra dialog inside of Excel 
>asking if you want to keep the document checked
>out or check it back in.  In other words, you have to be on your 
>toes in case something extra happens.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Steve Jacobson
>
>On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:47:31 -0600, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>
> >Good afternoon,
>
> >I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
> >following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>
> >My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
> >things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
> >accessible with a screenreader.
>
> >I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
> >implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
> >launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
> >classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
> >hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
> >of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
> >experience with this program?
>
>
> >--
> >Julie McG
> >National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> >Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> >Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> >and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> >"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> >everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> >life."
> >John 3:16



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 22:28:48 2013
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:28:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
In-Reply-To: <6418C5D5DD234BD89B51AB85A92A990C@OwnerPC>
References: <52b25481.442e320a.2958.25c0@mx.google.com>
	<6418C5D5DD234BD89B51AB85A92A990C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <FA2A15DA-9FE2-4C3F-A9F4-D2A9571642D4@gmail.com>

Ashley,
I guess this is just personal preference but I generally used public transit and the occasional cab for pretty much everything unless it's convenient for me to Hitch a ride with somebody already going to the same place or close. Granted, I live in an area with fairly reliable buses and light rail trains so it's pretty easy to use that and be on time to pretty much everything. Much easier then arranging and dealing with volunteer drivers, in fact, but I digress.
Best,
Kirt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2013, at 8:45 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Hey Kelsey,
> I'm sort of in the same position. I'm not on my own, but hope to once I have a job and save money.
> Transit comes infrequently on some routes, and even if I were alone, I'd rather not rely on public or paratransit for something as crucial as a doctor's visit. This is because they take indirect routes and you cannot count on being somewhere at a certain time. You need to be a little early for visits to check in and things like that.
> So, if I were on my own, I'd probably get a volunteer to drive me; it may be someone from a nonprofit, church, a neighbor, or even the lighthouse for the blind.
> I'd just rather avoid the uncertainty of transit if possible.
> 
> So, its fine to have your folks take you to the doctor's office.
> However, I would not have them go back to the actual office with you.
> Have you talked to your mom about this? Is she insisting on being with you?
> Yes, as an adult you have the right to go back alone.
> I finally spoke up to my parents about this and they do respect my desire.
> So I go back alone. It’s a family practice office.
> What happens is you check in and then wait for them to call you.
> So, I wait my turn. Once they call me, I go back. I just walk sighted guide with them to the office. Then, the nurse does his or her thing and records the info on vital signs,
> and then I wait for the doctor in the medical exam room.
> I usually can see where the exam table is and if they need to weigh me, I see that.
> But, if I were totally blind, I'd just ask them to tell me where it was and walk over to it.
> When we finish the visit, they take me back to the waiting room using sighted guide.
> 
> Good question on paperwork.
> After you sign up with a doctor, you usually do not need to fill out papers. You will do it if you get a shot or something other than a routine physical.
> I'm not sure what to say because I have had a family member assist me as you have done.
> Such stuff is real private, and I'm uncomfortable sharing it with a stranger. I guess I'd ask the office staff to assist me if I did not have a sighted person I trusted with me.
> 
> How do you all read papers they give you? Just scan it? Sometimes I get papers to state results of lab work
> or  info on a condition I have if I go to the cvs clinic.
> If I go to the clinic to get checked out for a sore throat, they give me papers based on what they did with the summary of what happened and the charge.
> 
> So far, I've used my family as readers, or if the paper does not involve numbers, I scan it.
> 
> Some doctors offices have online accounts where you can check your medical records there such as your lab results, and this is something you might want to ask about. It may not be accessible though.
> I believe my doctor has one, but I do not need the doctor much, so have not bothered to try their online system.
> I've heard many medical systems are inaccessible so it would not surprise me if it does not work.
> 
> Anyway, I've thought about trying it out though, since if it works, I would have an online record of my lab work, and would not have to remember when I last had it checked, since the computer would tell me.
> 
> Anyway, Kelsey, let your parents know you would like some independence. Perhaps, your mom hasn't thought about you doing it yourself. Mothers are like this particularly if they have always done it for you, they do not think to step back once you are grown.
> 
> One more thing. If you  have to sign papers, be sure to have someone, probably a nurse, read you the form and be sure you understand what you are signing. They might try to just give you a two sentence thing to say this is about xx procedure you are having. No, get more details before signing. But, if you are healthy and are primarily going for physicals, you should not have much issues with papers or access issues like that. Its just a routine visit.
> 
> HTH,
> Ashley
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Kelsey Nicolay
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:05 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] doctors appointments
> 
> Hello,
> I know this is kind of an off-topic question, but I would like
> people's opinions.  I still live at home and since I cannot
> drive, my mom or sister drive me to my doctors appointments.  I
> have no problem with that, but when I go for my physicals, my mom
> still goes back in the room with me.  I'm an adult, so shouldn't
> I be allowed to go back by myself? If you do go to the doctor by
> yourself using transit or whatever, how do you handle filling out
> paperwork and stuff like that? Again, this is off topic, but what
> has been your experience with attending doctor visits by
> yourself? Were the staff helpful? I go back by myself at the
> dentist because I have known them forever.  Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 19 22:33:34 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 17:33:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with the
	iPhone 5
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>



Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to use it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my iPhone

From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 22:47:20 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 16:47:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with the
	iPhone 5
In-Reply-To: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you can have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired with your phone.  Hope this helps.

Ryan
On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to use it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com



From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Thu Dec 19 23:42:13 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 17:42:13 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <auto-000136688676@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000015803665@mailback4.g2host.com>
	<auto-000136688676@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKyMK6SciV7tD8aOBTmgeeE1fbO=_u93C4wQKeO7rT2vw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thank you for this.  I think my boss was leaning towards using One
Note, but I will tell her about SharePoint.

Ryan, I have done the research on Voice Thread.  The website has
different sections on accessibility, but a lot of it doesn't seem
specific to screen readers.  Also, a lot of the video and audio
features are flash based, which, as we all know, is generally
inaccessible.

I was mostly entertained that I was struggling to read with Jaws one
of the documents they put out on accessibility.  The designers of the
program seem to think that accessibility means adding extra features
to their program, such as the ability to create captions for their
video.  I will note here that there is no tool for describing videos
available through their program.  I am just wondering if any students
have had experience trying to use this and how it went.



On 12/19/13, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Steve is right, as always.  It depends in part on the version of
> Sharepoint, 2010 or 2013, or something else.  Later is better.  I
> have seen setups where there is an accessibility link.  The screens
> tend to be very busy, lots of stuff, but mostly it works.
>
> Dave
>
> At 03:37 PM 12/19/2013, you wrote:
>>Julie,
>>
>>I have to use Sharepoint some, and all in all I would say it is
>>accessible.  Information is presented in web pages
>>and I don't find them all that intuitive or easy to use, but the
>>information is there.  A lot of access keys are
>>used but these keys don't always work as well with screen readers as
>>one would hope.  When you work with documents
>>in SharePoint, you usually use the native program that goes with the
>>documents like Word or Excel etc.  What is
>>sometimes a little confusing is that some aspects of SharePoint
>>become part of Microsoft Office products.  For
>>example, if one checks out a document in Sharepoint to edit, let's
>>say an Excel spreadsheet, and then you make
>>changes and save it, you will get an extra dialog inside of Excel
>>asking if you want to keep the document checked
>>out or check it back in.  In other words, you have to be on your
>>toes in case something extra happens.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Steve Jacobson
>>
>>On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:47:31 -0600, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>>
>> >Good afternoon,
>>
>> >I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
>> >following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>>
>> >My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
>> >things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
>> >accessible with a screenreader.
>>
>> >I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
>> >implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
>> >launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
>> >classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
>> >hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
>> >of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
>> >experience with this program?
>>
>>
>> >--
>> >Julie McG
>> >National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> >Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> >Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>> >and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>> >"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> >everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> >life."
>> >John 3:16
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 20 00:16:56 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 19:16:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
	5
In-Reply-To: <77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
	<77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>

Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want to 
use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I will 
definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my 
Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!

P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is 
because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be able 
to control my iPhone 5.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a BrailleNote 
Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5

Hi Helga,

Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth 
keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you can 
have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired with 
your phone.  Hope this helps.

Ryan
On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

>
>
> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I 
> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using 
> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex 
> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to use 
> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me 
> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my 
> iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 20 00:27:40 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 19:27:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3BE955A64B42452D93F6236C87BEDB94@OwnerPC>

Hi Julie,
If you can avoid it, do not use share point. I've heard nothing but problems 
with it. Sure some parts are accessible with later versions, but it’s a 
tricky setup. You have to also open up Microsoft files in it to make changes 
and I do not know if jaws reads those boxes.

One Note is accessible with scripts; I know nothing more as I do not use it. 
I just heard part of a webinar from freedom scientific where
they discussed it. It was one of the fs casts.

As for voice thread, it was a little confusing as there is so much to the 
website, but once I learned where to go and what to click on it seemed okay.
I used voice thread  in an advanced composition class. Our task was to
write our comments on our site and read other's comments. I recall a few of 
the video buttons were not labeled. Students could talk via a video or they 
could write text.

I was able to do my part with it. It took some reading the webpage with jaws 
and its not easy to navigate  IMO, but I was able to use it some.

HTH,
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread

Good afternoon,

I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
accessible with a screenreader.

I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
experience with this program?


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 00:36:07 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 18:36:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <3BE955A64B42452D93F6236C87BEDB94@OwnerPC>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<3BE955A64B42452D93F6236C87BEDB94@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJQFXCPB=vHuU8h56c2jqP+7j5t+c6zEOwmGK06Tt1_4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome Ashley!  The Voice Thread info is great.  That's pretty much
what I was expecting.  They are using flash, so it makes sense that
the buttons wouldn't be labeled.  As long as the scripts are easy to
find, One Note may be an option.  I'll check it out.  Thanks.

On 12/19/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Julie,
> If you can avoid it, do not use share point. I've heard nothing but problems
> with it. Sure some parts are accessible with later versions, but it’s a
> tricky setup. You have to also open up Microsoft files in it to make changes
> and I do not know if jaws reads those boxes.
>
> One Note is accessible with scripts; I know nothing more as I do not use it.
> I just heard part of a webinar from freedom scientific where
> they discussed it. It was one of the fs casts.
>
> As for voice thread, it was a little confusing as there is so much to the
> website, but once I learned where to go and what to click on it seemed okay.
> I used voice thread  in an advanced composition class. Our task was to
> write our comments on our site and read other's comments. I recall a few of
> the video buttons were not labeled. Students could talk via a video or they
> could write text.
>
> I was able to do my part with it. It took some reading the webpage with jaws
> and its not easy to navigate  IMO, but I was able to use it some.
>
> HTH,
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
> following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>
> My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
> things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
> accessible with a screenreader.
>
> I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
> implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
> launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
> classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
> hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
> of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
> experience with this program?
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 20 00:41:18 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 19:41:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJQFXCPB=vHuU8h56c2jqP+7j5t+c6zEOwmGK06Tt1_4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com><3BE955A64B42452D93F6236C87BEDB94@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJQFXCPB=vHuU8h56c2jqP+7j5t+c6zEOwmGK06Tt1_4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3382C921B12248908BBC8EDEAAC7A651@OwnerPC>

Hi Julie,
If students use voice thread for sharing info, they will do it in the edit 
box.
I suggest typing your text in a word processor and then copying and pasting 
it into the edit box for voice thread. It made it easier that way. I'm not 
so sure voice thread has a spell checker, and I found it harder to edit text 
there since if you arrow too far up or down you get out of the edit box; 
jaws will tell this with the sound pop for forms mode being off or on, but 
still, its easier to get lost. So editing the text in a word processor 
eliminates this issue.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 7:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,and Voice 
Thread

Awesome Ashley!  The Voice Thread info is great.  That's pretty much
what I was expecting.  They are using flash, so it makes sense that
the buttons wouldn't be labeled.  As long as the scripts are easy to
find, One Note may be an option.  I'll check it out.  Thanks.

On 12/19/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Julie,
> If you can avoid it, do not use share point. I've heard nothing but 
> problems
> with it. Sure some parts are accessible with later versions, but it’s a
> tricky setup. You have to also open up Microsoft files in it to make 
> changes
> and I do not know if jaws reads those boxes.
>
> One Note is accessible with scripts; I know nothing more as I do not use 
> it.
> I just heard part of a webinar from freedom scientific where
> they discussed it. It was one of the fs casts.
>
> As for voice thread, it was a little confusing as there is so much to the
> website, but once I learned where to go and what to click on it seemed 
> okay.
> I used voice thread  in an advanced composition class. Our task was to
> write our comments on our site and read other's comments. I recall a few 
> of
> the video buttons were not labeled. Students could talk via a video or 
> they
> could write text.
>
> I was able to do my part with it. It took some reading the webpage with 
> jaws
> and its not easy to navigate  IMO, but I was able to use it some.
>
> HTH,
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the
> following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>
> My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
> things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is
> accessible with a screenreader.
>
> I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
> implementation of technology and websites.  The university is
> launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their
> classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still
> hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some
> of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any
> experience with this program?
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 20 06:03:25 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 01:03:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
Message-ID: <56E9C12050C042929F9D328D4FCA99CE@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I’m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for purchase or borrowing.
I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to others as part of community service.

So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS collection. I’m wondering if APH has other books other than textbooks.

Thanks.
Ashley

From louvins at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 06:30:38 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:30:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <56E9C12050C042929F9D328D4FCA99CE@OwnerPC>
References: <56E9C12050C042929F9D328D4FCA99CE@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9s+gX76nYipSpL75kutCuOWYdvEegLLc-fhOsiDZxrTfw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley.  Email me offlist at louvins at gmail.com.  I have a bunch of
young adult/children's books available for purchase.  I got most of
them from seedlings braille books for children.  I just have to find
them all.  I have books like The Secret Garden, Hoot, A Wrinkle in
Time, The Giver, The Great Gilly Hopkins, Adam of The Road, and the
complete Chronicles of Narnia series.  Seedlings makes very high
quality books.

On 12/20/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for purchase or
> borrowing.
> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to others as part of
> community service.
>
> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS collection. I’m
> wondering if APH has other books other than textbooks.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 07:03:54 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 02:03:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKyMK6SciV7tD8aOBTmgeeE1fbO=_u93C4wQKeO7rT2vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>	<auto-000015803665@mailback4.g2host.com>	<auto-000136688676@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAHox4DKyMK6SciV7tD8aOBTmgeeE1fbO=_u93C4wQKeO7rT2vw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ca01cefd51$a5585150$f008f3f0$@gmail.com>

What is share point for exactly?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 6:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice
Thread

Hi all,

Thank you for this.  I think my boss was leaning towards using One Note, but
I will tell her about SharePoint.

Ryan, I have done the research on Voice Thread.  The website has different
sections on accessibility, but a lot of it doesn't seem specific to screen
readers.  Also, a lot of the video and audio features are flash based,
which, as we all know, is generally inaccessible.

I was mostly entertained that I was struggling to read with Jaws one of the
documents they put out on accessibility.  The designers of the program seem
to think that accessibility means adding extra features to their program,
such as the ability to create captions for their video.  I will note here
that there is no tool for describing videos available through their program.
I am just wondering if any students have had experience trying to use this
and how it went.



On 12/19/13, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Steve is right, as always.  It depends in part on the version of 
> Sharepoint, 2010 or 2013, or something else.  Later is better.  I have 
> seen setups where there is an accessibility link.  The screens tend to 
> be very busy, lots of stuff, but mostly it works.
>
> Dave
>
> At 03:37 PM 12/19/2013, you wrote:
>>Julie,
>>
>>I have to use Sharepoint some, and all in all I would say it is 
>>accessible.  Information is presented in web pages and I don't find 
>>them all that intuitive or easy to use, but the information is there.  
>>A lot of access keys are used but these keys don't always work as well 
>>with screen readers as one would hope.  When you work with documents 
>>in SharePoint, you usually use the native program that goes with the 
>>documents like Word or Excel etc.  What is sometimes a little 
>>confusing is that some aspects of SharePoint become part of Microsoft 
>>Office products.  For example, if one checks out a document in 
>>Sharepoint to edit, let's say an Excel spreadsheet, and then you make 
>>changes and save it, you will get an extra dialog inside of Excel 
>>asking if you want to keep the document checked out or check it back 
>>in.  In other words, you have to be on your toes in case something 
>>extra happens.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Steve Jacobson
>>
>>On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:47:31 -0600, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>>
>> >Good afternoon,
>>
>> >I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the 
>> >following programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>>
>> >My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track 
>> >of things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of 
>> >them is accessible with a screenreader.
>>
>> >I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and 
>> >implementation of technology and websites.  The university is 
>> >launching Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their 
>> >classes.  I have read the accessibility documentation, but I am 
>> >still hesitant that it is accessible to screenreaders, especially 
>> >since some of the documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have 
>> >any experience with this program?
>>
>>
>> >--
>> >Julie McG
>> >National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National 
>> >Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri 
>> >Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the 
>> >Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his 
>> >only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but 
>> >may have eternal life."
>> >John 3:16
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.
> com
>


--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 3:16

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 08:08:16 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:08:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
Message-ID: <52b3fb0b.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf12@mx.google.com>


The=20Library=20of=20Congress.


=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Fri,=2020=20Dec=202013=2001:03:25=20-0500
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20sources=20of=20braille=20books

Hi=20all,

I=E2=80=99m=20looking=20for=20other=20sources=20=20of=20braille=20books,=20=
either=20for=20
purchase=20or=20borrowing.
I=20might=20use=20them=20for=20my=20own=20reading=20pleasure=20or=20to=20re=
ad=20to=20others=20
as=20part=20of=20community=20service.

So=20what=20other=20sources=20are=20out=20there?=20I=20know=20about=20the=20=
NLS=20
collection.=20=20I=E2=80=99m=20wondering=20if=20APH=20has=20other=20books=20=
other=20than=20
textbooks.

Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 08:08:18 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:08:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
Message-ID: <52b3fb0e.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf18@mx.google.com>


I=20read=20the=20Secret=20Garden=20a=20long=20time=20ago,=20read=20the=20Gi=
ver=20last=20
year=20in=20class,=20and=20read=20all=20Narnia=20serries=20a=20few=20years=
=20ago.


=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Joshua=20Hendrickson=20<louvins at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Fri,=2020=20Dec=202013=2000:30:38=20-0600
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20sources=20of=20braille=20books

Hi=20Ashley.=20=20Email=20me=20offlist=20at=20louvins at gmail.com.=20=20I=20h=
ave=20a=20
bunch=20of
young=20adult/children's=20books=20available=20for=20purchase.=20=20I=20got=
=20most=20
of
them=20from=20seedlings=20braille=20books=20for=20children.=20=20I=20just=20=
have=20to=20
find
them=20all.=20=20I=20have=20books=20like=20The=20Secret=20Garden,=20Hoot,=20=
A=20Wrinkle=20
in
Time,=20The=20Giver,=20The=20Great=20Gilly=20Hopkins,=20Adam=20of=20The=20R=
oad,=20and=20
the
complete=20Chronicles=20of=20Narnia=20series.=20=20Seedlings=20makes=20very=
=20high
quality=20books.

On=2012/20/13,=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>=20wrote:
=20Hi=20all,

=20I=E2=80=99m=20looking=20for=20other=20sources=20=20of=20braille=20books,=
=20either=20for=20
purchase=20or
=20borrowing.
=20I=20might=20use=20them=20for=20my=20own=20reading=20pleasure=20or=20to=20=
read=20to=20
others=20as=20part=20of
=20community=20service.

=20So=20what=20other=20sources=20are=20out=20there?=20I=20know=20about=20th=
e=20NLS=20
collection.=20=20I=E2=80=99m
=20wondering=20if=20APH=20has=20other=20books=20other=20than=20textbooks.

=20Thanks.
=20Ashley
=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma
il.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com



From louvins at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 09:01:49 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 03:01:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <52b3fb0b.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf12@mx.google.com>
References: <52b3fb0b.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf12@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9sf2cEVQy4B+tbbqGP_4emTp1qZnBDdmVK9dZzQHKF_Hw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.  I also wouldn't go with APH.  They do have some fiction books or
at least they did when I did a check a couple years ago, but there
prices for braille books was incredibly expensive.  NLS is where to
go, if you want to just check out your books.  If you have a braille
display, there is the bard site and the web-braille offerings.  Also,
don't forget about bookshare.org.

On 12/20/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Library of Congress.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 01:03:25 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>
> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
> purchase or borrowing.
> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to others
> as part of community service.
>
> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
> collection.  I’m wondering if APH has other books other than
> textbooks.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
>
>
>


From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 11:33:36 2013
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 06:33:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9sf2cEVQy4B+tbbqGP_4emTp1qZnBDdmVK9dZzQHKF_Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b3fb0b.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf12@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9sf2cEVQy4B+tbbqGP_4emTp1qZnBDdmVK9dZzQHKF_Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9i+w-jf+i-s7b22GQioAKM4sg7Bz0MH5x187waAsGZbkw@mail.gmail.com>

NLS is the only service I can think of where you can borrow books. As
for purchasing them, there are several organizations that braille
books and distribute them for free or at a very low price. The Braille
Institute in California has a huge collection of children/young adult
braille books that they give to students for free. Also, Seedlings and
the National Braille Press make very high quality books that you can
buy. I remember buying the Harry Potter series from NBP for 20 dollars
a book, which was about the same price as the regular print books.
Minh

On 12/20/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi.  I also wouldn't go with APH.  They do have some fiction books or
> at least they did when I did a check a couple years ago, but there
> prices for braille books was incredibly expensive.  NLS is where to
> go, if you want to just check out your books.  If you have a braille
> display, there is the bard site and the web-braille offerings.  Also,
> don't forget about bookshare.org.
>
> On 12/20/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Library of Congress.
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 01:03:25 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
>> purchase or borrowing.
>> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to others
>> as part of community service.
>>
>> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
>> collection.  I’m wondering if APH has other books other than
>> textbooks.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 12:58:12 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 06:58:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
 and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
 5
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
	<77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
 If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
anymore help.

Ryan

On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want to
> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I will
>
> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>
> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be able
> to control my iPhone 5.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a BrailleNote
>
> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>
> Hi Helga,
>
> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you can
>
> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired with
>
> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using
>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to use
>>
>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my
>> iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 20 19:25:36 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:25:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
	5
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl><77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com><BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>

Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my 
BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know how 
to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote 
Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or an 
email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how to 
take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with this. 
Thanks and God bless!! :)
P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn in 
order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a 
BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5

Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
anymore help.

Ryan

On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want to
> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I 
> will
>
> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>
> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be able
> to control my iPhone 5.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a 
> BrailleNote
>
> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>
> Hi Helga,
>
> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you 
> can
>
> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired 
> with
>
> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using
>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to use
>>
>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my
>> iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 19:34:31 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 13:34:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
 and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
 5
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
	<77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure how to turn the screen keyboard off while using the Apex.
 I thought it went off automatically.  I actually don't have an Apex
myself, but I have used them and, in the capacity of an assistive tech
instructor, have taught them in combination with the iPhone.  Yes,
there are a number of commands you can use from the Apex to control
the phone.  Off the top of my head, I can think of: chord M (M + the
space bar) to mute and unmute voiceover and chord H (H plus the space
bar) to return to the home screen.  I can see if I can find a list of
commands for you and I'll also look into how to turn off the screen
keyboard.  Again, I thought that disappeared automatically when the
Apex is connected, but apparently not.  I know on the Apple Bluetooth
keyboards, pressing the top key on the upper right-hand corner (I'm
drawing a blank on what key that would actually be) will turn on and
off the screen keybaord, but I can't think of how to do it with the
Apex.  Anyone else have some insight on that?  Hope this helps.  I'll
get back to you with a list of commands for the Apex when I find them.

Ryan

On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my
> BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know how
>
> to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote
> Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or an
> email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how to
> take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with this.
> Thanks and God bless!! :)
> P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn in
>
> order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
> BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>
> Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
> controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
> braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
> display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
> If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
> happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
> to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
> connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
> anymore help.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want to
>> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I
>> will
>>
>> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
>> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>>
>> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
>> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be
>> able
>> to control my iPhone 5.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a
>> BrailleNote
>>
>> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>
>> Hi Helga,
>>
>> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
>> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you
>> can
>>
>> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired
>> with
>>
>> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>>
>> Ryan
>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using
>>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to
>>> use
>>>
>>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my
>>> iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 19:42:31 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:42:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
	5
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl>
	<77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5E6901F-F585-40AC-B692-623EA060F09E@gmail.com>

Hi Helga and all, the only thing I can think to try out would be to press space with dots one-4-6 and see what that does. In iOS 7 though, I think they   might've broken that because I think the keyboard is still visible even if you turn it off.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure how to turn the screen keyboard off while using the Apex.
> I thought it went off automatically.  I actually don't have an Apex
> myself, but I have used them and, in the capacity of an assistive tech
> instructor, have taught them in combination with the iPhone.  Yes,
> there are a number of commands you can use from the Apex to control
> the phone.  Off the top of my head, I can think of: chord M (M + the
> space bar) to mute and unmute voiceover and chord H (H plus the space
> bar) to return to the home screen.  I can see if I can find a list of
> commands for you and I'll also look into how to turn off the screen
> keyboard.  Again, I thought that disappeared automatically when the
> Apex is connected, but apparently not.  I know on the Apple Bluetooth
> keyboards, pressing the top key on the upper right-hand corner (I'm
> drawing a blank on what key that would actually be) will turn on and
> off the screen keybaord, but I can't think of how to do it with the
> Apex.  Anyone else have some insight on that?  Hope this helps.  I'll
> get back to you with a list of commands for the Apex when I find them.
> 
> Ryan
> 
>> On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my
>> BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know how
>> 
>> to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote
>> Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or an
>> email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how to
>> take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with this.
>> Thanks and God bless!! :)
>> P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn in
>> 
>> order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
>> BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>> 
>> Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
>> controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
>> braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
>> display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
>> If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
>> happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
>> to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
>> connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
>> anymore help.
>> 
>> Ryan
>> 
>>> On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want to
>>> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I
>>> will
>>> 
>>> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
>>> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>>> 
>>> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
>>> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be
>>> able
>>> to control my iPhone 5.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a
>>> BrailleNote
>>> 
>>> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>> 
>>> Hi Helga,
>>> 
>>> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
>>> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you
>>> can
>>> 
>>> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired
>>> with
>>> 
>>> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Ryan
>>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber
>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>>>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm using
>>>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>>>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to
>>>> use
>>>> 
>>>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>>>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from my
>>>> iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ryan L. Silveira
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Fri Dec 20 19:21:03 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:21:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9i+w-jf+i-s7b22GQioAKM4sg7Bz0MH5x187waAsGZbkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b3fb0b.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf12@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9sf2cEVQy4B+tbbqGP_4emTp1qZnBDdmVK9dZzQHKF_Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9i+w-jf+i-s7b22GQioAKM4sg7Bz0MH5x187waAsGZbkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <605A3B9F-CE33-42AC-83B6-E2C2CE870A63@fuse.net>

There is also horizons for the blind.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 6:33 AM, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> NLS is the only service I can think of where you can borrow books. As
> for purchasing them, there are several organizations that braille
> books and distribute them for free or at a very low price. The Braille
> Institute in California has a huge collection of children/young adult
> braille books that they give to students for free. Also, Seedlings and
> the National Braille Press make very high quality books that you can
> buy. I remember buying the Harry Potter series from NBP for 20 dollars
> a book, which was about the same price as the regular print books.
> Minh
> 
>> On 12/20/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi.  I also wouldn't go with APH.  They do have some fiction books or
>> at least they did when I did a check a couple years ago, but there
>> prices for braille books was incredibly expensive.  NLS is where to
>> go, if you want to just check out your books.  If you have a braille
>> display, there is the bard site and the web-braille offerings.  Also,
>> don't forget about bookshare.org.
>> 
>>> On 12/20/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Library of Congress.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 01:03:25 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I’m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
>>> purchase or borrowing.
>>> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to others
>>> as part of community service.
>>> 
>>> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
>>> collection.  I’m wondering if APH has other books other than
>>> textbooks.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From emilypennington at fuse.net  Fri Dec 20 21:07:01 2013
From: emilypennington at fuse.net (Emily Pennington)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 16:07:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
	5
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl><77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com><BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84B4BA0EAAE441A8968972213860FDFD@EmilyDesktopPC>

Hi, Helga.
I believe that you press the far left and second-from-the-right (for lack of 
a better term) thumb keys in order to turn the screen keyboard off. It will 
say, "Keyboard visible" or "keyboard hidden," depending on how you toggle 
it. Sometimes, it's a bit finicky, but I'm pretty sure this is what you were 
asking about.

Hope this helps,
Emily
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Silveira" <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a 
BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5


> I'm not sure how to turn the screen keyboard off while using the Apex.
> I thought it went off automatically.  I actually don't have an Apex
> myself, but I have used them and, in the capacity of an assistive tech
> instructor, have taught them in combination with the iPhone.  Yes,
> there are a number of commands you can use from the Apex to control
> the phone.  Off the top of my head, I can think of: chord M (M + the
> space bar) to mute and unmute voiceover and chord H (H plus the space
> bar) to return to the home screen.  I can see if I can find a list of
> commands for you and I'll also look into how to turn off the screen
> keyboard.  Again, I thought that disappeared automatically when the
> Apex is connected, but apparently not.  I know on the Apple Bluetooth
> keyboards, pressing the top key on the upper right-hand corner (I'm
> drawing a blank on what key that would actually be) will turn on and
> off the screen keybaord, but I can't think of how to do it with the
> Apex.  Anyone else have some insight on that?  Hope this helps.  I'll
> get back to you with a list of commands for the Apex when I find them.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my
>> BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know 
>> how
>>
>> to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote
>> Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or 
>> an
>> email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how 
>> to
>> take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with this.
>> Thanks and God bless!! :)
>> P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn 
>> in
>>
>> order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
>> BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>
>> Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
>> controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
>> braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
>> display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
>> If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
>> happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
>> to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
>> connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
>> anymore help.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want 
>>> to
>>> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I
>>> will
>>>
>>> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
>>> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>>>
>>> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
>>> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be
>>> able
>>> to control my iPhone 5.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a
>>> BrailleNote
>>>
>>> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>>
>>> Hi Helga,
>>>
>>> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
>>> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you
>>> can
>>>
>>> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired
>>> with
>>>
>>> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber
>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>>>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm 
>>>> using
>>>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>>>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to
>>>> use
>>>>
>>>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>>>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from 
>>>> my
>>>> iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net
> 




From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 20 21:40:45 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 16:40:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone5
In-Reply-To: <84B4BA0EAAE441A8968972213860FDFD@EmilyDesktopPC>
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl><77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com><BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<84B4BA0EAAE441A8968972213860FDFD@EmilyDesktopPC>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS19F8FFCC4166BC884C932F5C40@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to tell you that I did what Josh told 
me to do, in pressing space with dots 1, 4, and 6 in order to take off the 
screen keyboard, and it actually work. I actually figure out that in order 
for that to work, do not double tap in order to start writing your message, 
instead press space with dots 1, 4  and 6 first, and then double tap in 
order to start writing your message! This was actually very hard to figure 
out!, but not impossible, Emily, I also try your method as well, I think it 
work as well, but it told me keyboard hidden, but after pressing it for some 
time then it told me keyboard visible. I don't really don't know if I 
pressed the right keys, but you guys get the idea right? Thanks so much for 
helping me! I really appreciate it! God bless!
P.S. Are yu guys going to the State convention in January? just curious! :) 
Thanks again!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Emily Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 4:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a BrailleNote 
Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone5

Hi, Helga.
I believe that you press the far left and second-from-the-right (for lack of
a better term) thumb keys in order to turn the screen keyboard off. It will
say, "Keyboard visible" or "keyboard hidden," depending on how you toggle
it. Sometimes, it's a bit finicky, but I'm pretty sure this is what you were
asking about.

Hope this helps,
Emily
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Silveira" <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5


> I'm not sure how to turn the screen keyboard off while using the Apex.
> I thought it went off automatically.  I actually don't have an Apex
> myself, but I have used them and, in the capacity of an assistive tech
> instructor, have taught them in combination with the iPhone.  Yes,
> there are a number of commands you can use from the Apex to control
> the phone.  Off the top of my head, I can think of: chord M (M + the
> space bar) to mute and unmute voiceover and chord H (H plus the space
> bar) to return to the home screen.  I can see if I can find a list of
> commands for you and I'll also look into how to turn off the screen
> keyboard.  Again, I thought that disappeared automatically when the
> Apex is connected, but apparently not.  I know on the Apple Bluetooth
> keyboards, pressing the top key on the upper right-hand corner (I'm
> drawing a blank on what key that would actually be) will turn on and
> off the screen keybaord, but I can't think of how to do it with the
> Apex.  Anyone else have some insight on that?  Hope this helps.  I'll
> get back to you with a list of commands for the Apex when I find them.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my
>> BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know 
>> how
>>
>> to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote
>> Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or 
>> an
>> email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how 
>> to
>> take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with this.
>> Thanks and God bless!! :)
>> P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn 
>> in
>>
>> order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
>> BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>
>> Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
>> controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
>> braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
>> display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
>> If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
>> happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
>> to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
>> connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
>> anymore help.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want 
>>> to
>>> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I
>>> will
>>>
>>> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
>>> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
>>>
>>> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
>>> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be
>>> able
>>> to control my iPhone 5.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a
>>> BrailleNote
>>>
>>> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
>>>
>>> Hi Helga,
>>>
>>> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
>>> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you
>>> can
>>>
>>> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired
>>> with
>>>
>>> your phone.  Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber
>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>>>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm 
>>>> using
>>>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
>>>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to
>>>> use
>>>>
>>>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give me
>>>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from 
>>>> my
>>>> iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypennington%40fuse.net
>



_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 20 23:29:58 2013
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 18:29:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
Message-ID: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone:

Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
writing, and a University Library course which is library research
which is a class that is required for my major.
I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
working out.
I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
make it anymore!
Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
still widely used even though they are overpriced?
The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
the same time.
How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
electronic copies of the books.
What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
idea how to justify that type of money.
When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
myself.
I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
totally different/unrelated?
Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
Kerri


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 20 23:57:19 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 18:57:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>

Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that for 
paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I apply 
every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, they 
actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next semester! And as 
for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in Braille, or 
get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in Braille! 
But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books in 
Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my books in PDF 
format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because sometimes the 
words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very 
messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kerri Kosten
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
writing, and a University Library course which is library research
which is a class that is required for my major.
I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
working out.
I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
make it anymore!
Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
still widely used even though they are overpriced?
The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
the same time.
How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
electronic copies of the books.
What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
idea how to justify that type of money.
When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
myself.
I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
totally different/unrelated?
Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
Kerri

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 00:15:16 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 17:15:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBqoYi8-jQAHhtv9y9fUPpeDrSyGNJJk2K4f0y3hFQ2gg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kerri,

Rehab routinely pays for college tuition, so it's not a big thing to
justify to them. They should be willing to pay in-state tuition as
long as you have a specific major with a vocational goal in mind. Even
if you change your major later, or end up working in some other field,
it doesn't matter. As long as rehab sees you've declared a vocational
goal, and journalism is a perfectly reasonable one, they should pay.
The only reason you might have trouble is if they find out that you
tried school once before and left. If you were put on academic
probation, you might have to pay yourself for a semester or two to get
off probation before rehab will start paying your tuition.
Regarding notetaking, I agree that a Braille notetaker is a great
option. I would suggest using your current Pac Mate in the short term,
as long as it works, but ask rehab to authorize a replacement
notetaker if your Pac Mate breaks or dies. This is another very
routine request and so they should not give you trouble, and they will
probably offer you a new notetaker of your choice if something happens
to your old one or it no longer meets your needs.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that for
> paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I apply
> every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, they
> actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next semester! And as
> for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in Braille, or
>
> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in Braille!
> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books in
> Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my books in PDF
>
> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because sometimes the
>
> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very
> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerri Kosten
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
> which is a class that is required for my major.
> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
> working out.
> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
> make it anymore!
> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
> the same time.
> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
> electronic copies of the books.
> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
> idea how to justify that type of money.
> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
> myself.
> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
> totally different/unrelated?
> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
> Kerri
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 00:17:32 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 19:17:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBqoYi8-jQAHhtv9y9fUPpeDrSyGNJJk2K4f0y3hFQ2gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CALAYQJBqoYi8-jQAHhtv9y9fUPpeDrSyGNJJk2K4f0y3hFQ2gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01cefde2$0afb2330$20f16990$@gmail.com>

I use a laptop, but it is all personal preference. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:15 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Kerri,

Rehab routinely pays for college tuition, so it's not a big thing to justify
to them. They should be willing to pay in-state tuition as long as you have
a specific major with a vocational goal in mind. Even if you change your
major later, or end up working in some other field, it doesn't matter. As
long as rehab sees you've declared a vocational goal, and journalism is a
perfectly reasonable one, they should pay.
The only reason you might have trouble is if they find out that you tried
school once before and left. If you were put on academic probation, you
might have to pay yourself for a semester or two to get off probation before
rehab will start paying your tuition.
Regarding notetaking, I agree that a Braille notetaker is a great option. I
would suggest using your current Pac Mate in the short term, as long as it
works, but ask rehab to authorize a replacement notetaker if your Pac Mate
breaks or dies. This is another very routine request and so they should not
give you trouble, and they will probably offer you a new notetaker of your
choice if something happens to your old one or it no longer meets your
needs.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that 
> for paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I 
> apply every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, 
> they actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next 
> semester! And as for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get 
> my books in Braille, or
>
> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in Braille!
> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books 
> in Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my 
> books in PDF
>
> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because 
> sometimes the
>
> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very 
> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerri Kosten
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered 
> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in 
> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative 
> writing, and a University Library course which is library research 
> which is a class that is required for my major.
> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out 
> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't 
> working out.
> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school, 
> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find 
> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my 
> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me 
> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I 
> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't 
> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is 
> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should 
> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the 
> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go 
> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there 
> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all 
> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some
questions.
> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a 
> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I 
> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a 
> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even 
> make it anymore!
> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or 
> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a 
> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers 
> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there 
> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am 
> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of 
> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen 
> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at 
> the same time.
> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with 
> electronic copies of the books.
> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention 
> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me 
> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having 
> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in 
> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have 
> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after 
> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am 
> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because 
> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no 
> idea how to justify that type of money.
> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different 
> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further 
> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering 
> myself.
> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does 
> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or 
> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something 
> totally different/unrelated?
> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
> Kerri
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40
> hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 00:45:20 2013
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina Cruz)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 19:45:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <000f01cefde2$0afb2330$20f16990$@gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CALAYQJBqoYi8-jQAHhtv9y9fUPpeDrSyGNJJk2K4f0y3hFQ2gg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000f01cefde2$0afb2330$20f16990$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKDRsJKEvK8tMv9x13EvqKNy+1ZQ3LRJLiBBCrXAebu1RModVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kerri,
It sounds as if you have mapped out a workable plan. In my state,
rehab will assist with tuition as long as one is a full time student,
which generally means 12 credits (4 classes) a semester. Does WVU
offer any scholarship opportunities? Are you returning this Spring?
I started out using a notetaker but switched to my laptop for note
taking. If you choose to go the rehab route, ask if they have any
resources for loaner notetakers if you find you need a newer
notetaker.
Since you will be a student, Bookshare is a great resource for
textbooks. My Disability office was able to obtain electronic copies
of my texts, as long as I showed proof of purchase.

On 12/20/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I use a laptop, but it is all personal preference.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:15 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Kerri,
>
> Rehab routinely pays for college tuition, so it's not a big thing to
> justify
> to them. They should be willing to pay in-state tuition as long as you have
> a specific major with a vocational goal in mind. Even if you change your
> major later, or end up working in some other field, it doesn't matter. As
> long as rehab sees you've declared a vocational goal, and journalism is a
> perfectly reasonable one, they should pay.
> The only reason you might have trouble is if they find out that you tried
> school once before and left. If you were put on academic probation, you
> might have to pay yourself for a semester or two to get off probation
> before
> rehab will start paying your tuition.
> Regarding notetaking, I agree that a Braille notetaker is a great option. I
> would suggest using your current Pac Mate in the short term, as long as it
> works, but ask rehab to authorize a replacement notetaker if your Pac Mate
> breaks or dies. This is another very routine request and so they should not
> give you trouble, and they will probably offer you a new notetaker of your
> choice if something happens to your old one or it no longer meets your
> needs.
>
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that
>> for paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I
>> apply every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact,
>> they actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next
>> semester! And as for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get
>> my books in Braille, or
>>
>> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in
>> Braille!
>> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books
>> in Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my
>> books in PDF
>>
>> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because
>> sometimes the
>>
>> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very
>> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kerri Kosten
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hi Everyone:
>>
>> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
>> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
>> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
>> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
>> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
>> which is a class that is required for my major.
>> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
>> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
>> working out.
>> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
>> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
>> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
>> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
>> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
>> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
>> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
>> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
>> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
>> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
>> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
>> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
>> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
>> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some
> questions.
>> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
>> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
>> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
>> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
>> make it anymore!
>> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
>> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
>> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
>> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
>> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
>> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
>> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
>> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
>> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
>> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
>> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
>> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
>> the same time.
>> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
>> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
>> electronic copies of the books.
>> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
>> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
>> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
>> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
>> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
>> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
>> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
>> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
>> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
>> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
>> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
>> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
>> idea how to justify that type of money.
>> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
>> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
>> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
>> myself.
>> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
>> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
>> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
>> totally different/unrelated?
>> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
>> Kerri
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40
>> hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
>> com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Anjelina


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 00:50:23 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 19:50:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C41A17FB46EF41F593ACF881125C7A58@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Kerri,
I have been in school at my community college for about a year and a half 
now, and I attended school for 2 semesters in college. As for me, I use my 
laptop with JAWS. I don't have a Braille display, because vocational rehab 
did not think I needed any equipment because I had a netbook with JAWS on it 
that was outdated, and they told me that that should be enough for me, so I 
ended up purchasing my own laptop that ran Windows 7, which was a 
requirement for my classes at the time. I would like to get a Braille 
display, especially for math and foreign language classes, but it is just 
too expensive for me, and the laptop with JAWS has worked pretty well. I do 
do the majority of my classes online, since I am a parent, so that helps a 
lot with notetaking, because I don't have to take notes while listening to 
the professor like I would have to do in class. Usually, I just take notes 
from the textbook and from information that the professors have posted 
online. Perhaps you can talk with your counselor in West Virginia and they 
may be able to do evaluations to get you the equipment you need. They will 
probably even help pay for college, although they may require you to apply 
for financial aid through filling out a FAFSA form, which can be found at 
fafsa.ed.gov. It would be too late to get financial aid for next semester 
from the FAFSA, but you can fill out the form for the 2014-2015 school year 
if you think you may be taking more classes then, and you can do this 
starting after January 1. If you fill it out at the beginning of 2014, it 
will take effect in the fall semester of 2014 I think. You may also want to 
go to a financial aid adviser at your school, and they may be able to 
explain the process to you and also refer you to any other resources that 
are available to help pay for tuition and books. A financial aid adviser 
will also tell you what paperwork you need to bring in, and you may be able 
to ask them to help you fill out any paperwork related to financial aid.
You can get books in electronic format, but you usually have to go through 
your college campus's disability services office. Perhaps you could talk 
with them and get things set up with them, and when you have the list of 
textbooks, you can bring them to the disability services office on campus 
and they can order them for you from the publisher in electronic format. You 
will probably have to actually purchase the print copies of the books 
though, since the publishers usually require that the disability services 
office send a copy of the receipt saying that you actually purchased the 
books before they will give an electronic file of the book to the disability 
office. This has generally been my experience, anyway. Some disability 
services offices will even scan the book for you if you bring it to them. 
You can also talk with them about any accomodations you might need for 
class, and they will write letters that you can give to your professors that 
explain which accomodations you will need in class and for things like 
testing and assignments. If you look up the website for your college, you 
should be able to find the contact information to contact the disability 
services office, or disability access services office, depending on what 
your college calls it. If not, you can maybe call the main number for the 
campus and ask them for the phone number and where the disability services 
office is located.
I hope this helps,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Kerri Kosten
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
writing, and a University Library course which is library research
which is a class that is required for my major.
I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
working out.
I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
make it anymore!
Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
still widely used even though they are overpriced?
The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
the same time.
How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
electronic copies of the books.
What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
idea how to justify that type of money.
When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
myself.
I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
totally different/unrelated?
Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
Kerri

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Sat Dec 21 02:17:12 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 21:17:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0E597644-88E7-4973-A9BB-5987ACE941BD@aol.com>

Kari,
First I might get some heat from this but the PACmate although outdated is not vanished. I have one and just spoke to Freedom Scientific today. I will tell you I would get away from note takers all together. I mean PACmate, Braillenote, whatever. 
I use portable Braille displays with apple devices and a laptop. I have an iPhone and an iPad I use to read books. I am not a fan of the learning ally app ether but, I've learned you use what you get in college. 
If you can not find books on learning ally, book share, other sources I go right to the publisher for an electronic version. Just know they may ask you to buy the print book first. 
In class I usually depend on my laptop, iPad, and a focus display. If I use a note taker like the PACmate or apex I have an extra step. I have to save the file to something external prior to getting it to my professor. 
I love using a laptop or iPad in class because I can access blackboard or the portal in two seconds to turn in an assignment. 
I can not be the one to tell you what combination works best because I did not even bring up the option to record lectures. You wouldn't even be using a note taker. 
You also have the option depending on the school of asking for power points and other handouts in a digital or accessible format. I've even seen peer note takers who take notes for students and print them out for you to scan. I had thus for college algebra. 
If you have an idea of what might help you ask disability services chances are  it   
Is not unreasonable.
I hope this helps.
Feel free to contact me if you need any more help.
Best,
Bridget 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 6:29 PM, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone:
> 
> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
> which is a class that is required for my major.
> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
> working out.
> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
> make it anymore!
> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
> the same time.
> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
> electronic copies of the books.
> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
> idea how to justify that type of money.
> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
> myself.
> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
> totally different/unrelated?
> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
> Kerri
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 04:53:01 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:53:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003501cefe08$87f69240$97e3b6c0$@gmail.com>

Kerri,

My last year in college I used a laptop, but until then I used, and often
still prefer, a Braille notetaker. If you have the opportunity to request
one, I'd go with one of the Braille Sense products. Better you get
assistance with one now than wish you'd gotten one later when it will become
more prohibitively expensive to obtain one. I fall into the minority when it
comes to the iPad as a production tool. It's overrated, and carrying around
a Braille display plus iPad plus laptop sounds like a bit much, but of
course, to each his own.

As for journalism, I think you're going to have to prepare yourself to meet
an ever changing field. Newspapers aren't what they used to be. Writers come
a dime a dozen, so you'll have to stay on top of emerging platforms to
ensure you can stay competitive in our over-saturated information society.
Can you do it? Absolutely, but make sure the program is teaching you real
world tactics to stay ahead. Also, consider minoring in journalism and
majoring in something else if you can swing it. Media outlets will like
specialization, and if you majored in something like economics or political
science or performing arts you may find it easier to create a niche for
yourself after graduation. My friends who've gone on to become professional
writers say no one likes taking journalism majors and reteaching them how to
write in the real world, but even if writing can be taught, specialization
is more time-consuming.

Hope that helps.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered for
three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in Contemporary
Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative writing, and a
University Library course which is library research which is a class that is
required for my major.
I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out because I
didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't working out.
I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school, but I
need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find and I never
finished my degree I figured going to school would be my best option
currently. I figured going back to school would give me something to do five
days a week, it would get me out of the house, I could learn things, and
could work on finishing my degree. I haven't been on campus yet, but my
mother and everyone says everything is right near each other and once I get
to the student union I should have no problem walking to my classes. I could
have lunch in the student union before class, then walk to my classes, then
either go back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union
there is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a very
very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I could dig it up
and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a very very old very
outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even make it anymore!
Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or Braille
Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a new
notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers still
widely used even though they are overpriced?
The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there and I
can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am going to ask
Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of braille display so I
don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen to the professor and
simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at the same time.
How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
electronic copies of the books.
What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention to
things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me pay,
but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having trouble
because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in my journalism
and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have no idea whether I
will be able to really realistically get a job after college. The amount of
$2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am feeling extremely guilty
because I'm doing this school thing because it seems my best option for
turning my life around. However, I have no idea how to justify that type of
money.
When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further without
it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering myself.
I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does Rehab have
to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or even if I get a
degree in journalism and get a job in something totally different/unrelated?
Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
Kerri

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com



From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 04:58:28 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:58:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003901cefe09$4a014100$de03c300$@gmail.com>

I'm working on building a SharePoint platform at work as one of my
assignments. It's a pain in the butt, but surprisingly, I have not yet
encountered something I could not do. The accessible mode is quasi helpful,
but if you do wind up using the system, my best advice is to read general
tutorials. Familiarize yourself with the concepts and terminology and then
break it up into small tasks to learn one area of the system at a time.
Personally, I don't see the love fest with SharePoint, but it's not likely
to go away anytime soon. And, it will help add to your marketability later.
I'm using SP 2010 at work. They're migrating us to 2013, and this latter
version is supposed to be a lot better.

Joe

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:48 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread

Good afternoon,

I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the following
programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of things
at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is accessible
with a screenreader.

I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
implementation of technology and websites.  The university is launching
Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their classes.  I have
read the accessibility documentation, but I am still hesitant that it is
accessible to screenreaders, especially since some of the documentation
wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any experience with this program?


--
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For
God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
John 3:16

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nabs-l:
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From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 05:07:25 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:07:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <003901cefe09$4a014100$de03c300$@gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DKGVAh=4VJqTjyHW86GNOPUd0axXq6bxvKXCsuYDv+jLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<003901cefe09$4a014100$de03c300$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJNbJSLh6SnCafOMUufupoH6peMi3k21+bTUD7=sZgVog@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you so much!  I'll talk to my boss about this.  Since my job is
all about testing accessibility, I think she would be very interested
to see me struggle with it.  :)  She said that if it's too much
struggle, she didn't want me to waste my time, but you're right about
the marketability.

I don't know a lot about SharePoint, but it is a program that allows
multiple people to view documents and edit them.  My boss wants to use
it so that we can see where we are with different tasks.

On 12/20/13, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm working on building a SharePoint platform at work as one of my
> assignments. It's a pain in the butt, but surprisingly, I have not yet
> encountered something I could not do. The accessible mode is quasi helpful,
> but if you do wind up using the system, my best advice is to read general
> tutorials. Familiarize yourself with the concepts and terminology and then
> break it up into small tasks to learn one area of the system at a time.
> Personally, I don't see the love fest with SharePoint, but it's not likely
> to go away anytime soon. And, it will help add to your marketability later.
> I'm using SP 2010 at work. They're migrating us to 2013, and this latter
> version is supposed to be a lot better.
>
> Joe
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie
> McGinnity
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:48 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the following
> programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.
>
> My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of
> things
> at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is accessible
> with a screenreader.
>
> I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
> implementation of technology and websites.  The university is launching
> Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their classes.  I have
> read the accessibility documentation, but I am still hesitant that it is
> accessible to screenreaders, especially since some of the documentation
> wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any experience with this program?
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
> of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
> Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For
> God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
> believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From sgermano at asu.edu  Sat Dec 21 05:39:07 2013
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 22:39:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avc34tKrz2ERn5LLOdVreBkndNp=qy4x332=qxDVALB_vA@mail.gmail.com>

It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
scans the books into electronic format.

I have been out of school for over 15 years and applied for rehab and they
are paying for my schooling. some states have very long wait lists. I was
albe to get on in about 3 months. They purchased a portable cctv for me.

You do have to have the goal of employment form the school in order for
rehab to pay for

Good luck


On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Helga Schreiber <
helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that for
> paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I apply
> every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, they
> actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next semester! And as
> for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in Braille, or
> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in Braille!
> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books in
> Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my books in PDF
> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because sometimes the
> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very
> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
> which is a class that is required for my major.
> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
> working out.
> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
> make it anymore!
> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
> the same time.
> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
> electronic copies of the books.
> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
> idea how to justify that type of money.
> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
> myself.
> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
> totally different/unrelated?
> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
> Kerri
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From louvins at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 09:13:08 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:13:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avc34tKrz2ERn5LLOdVreBkndNp=qy4x332=qxDVALB_vA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc34tKrz2ERn5LLOdVreBkndNp=qy4x332=qxDVALB_vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9uVuPFS+qyG+X-oF9_6ChM5pOrC+_xQJ9Zi+7kjHERmZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  This
is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as cost
is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help you
in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend trying to
get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you could
purchase the books and see if disability support services could scan
the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my school
did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  Don't
be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your degree.
 Good luck.

On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
> scans the books into electronic format.
>
> I have been out of school for over 15 years and applied for rehab and they
> are paying for my schooling. some states have very long wait lists. I was
> albe to get on in about 3 months. They purchased a portable cctv for me.
>
> You do have to have the goal of employment form the school in order for
> rehab to pay for
>
> Good luck
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that for
>> paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I apply
>> every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, they
>> actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next semester! And as
>> for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in Braille,
>> or
>> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in
>> Braille!
>> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books in
>> Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my books in
>> PDF
>> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because sometimes
>> the
>> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very
>> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hi Everyone:
>>
>> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
>> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
>> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
>> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
>> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
>> which is a class that is required for my major.
>> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
>> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
>> working out.
>> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
>> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
>> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
>> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
>> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
>> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
>> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
>> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
>> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
>> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
>> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
>> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
>> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
>> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some
>> questions.
>> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
>> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
>> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
>> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
>> make it anymore!
>> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
>> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
>> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
>> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
>> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
>> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
>> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
>> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
>> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
>> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
>> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
>> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
>> the same time.
>> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
>> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
>> electronic copies of the books.
>> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
>> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
>> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
>> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
>> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
>> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
>> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
>> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
>> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
>> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
>> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
>> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
>> idea how to justify that type of money.
>> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
>> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
>> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
>> myself.
>> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
>> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
>> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
>> totally different/unrelated?
>> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
>> Kerri
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Dec 21 13:25:34 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 07:25:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: New EyeNote app 2.0 released
Message-ID: <auto-000136359811@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>From: Pressman Sabra 
>[<mailto:Sabra.Pressman at bep.gov>mailto:Sabra.Pressman at bep.gov]
>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:43 PM
>To: DeNotaris, David
>Subject: New EyeNote app 2.0 released
>
>Greetings,
>I hope my email finds you well.  I wanted to 
>send you the press release for the new updated 
>EyeNote App we just released.  This is the 
>upgraded Currency Reader App 2.0 launched by BEP on December 12, 2013.
>I wish you all the best and happy holidays.
>Sabra Pressman
>
>Release
>
>A new version of the EyeNote™ mobile device 
>application (app) that denominates U.S. currency 
>was released by the Department of the 
>Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing 
>(BEP) today, replacing the version originally 
>launched in April 2011. The newer version is 
>easier and quicker to operate because it uses a 
>continuous scan function to identify the note, 
>rather than requiring the user to take a picture.
>
>EyeNote™ can be downloaded for free onto many 
>Apple iPhone, iPad, and iPod products. It 
>recognizes all Federal Reserve notes issued 
>since 1996, including the new $100 note that 
>began circulating in October, and communicates 
>the denomination back to the user through an 
>audible response (English or Spanish) or a 
>vibration pulse mode for privacy. EyeNote™ was 
>developed by BEP as an interim solution to 
>increase accessibility to Federal Reserve notes 
>among blind and visually impaired individuals 
>while the U.S. government develops a system of 
>raised tactile features to incorporate into future redesigned notes.
>
>“The recent enhancements made to the EyeNote™ 
>app make it an even more effecttive tool to 
>assist people in denominating U.S. currency,” 
>said Treasurer of the United States Rosie Rios. 
>“It offers portability and speed, both 
>requirements when used in a retail environment, 
>and the convenience of not needing to carry 
>around a separate reader by using one’s 
>personal mobile device.” The EyeNote™ app has 
>more than 14,000 downloads since the 2011 launch.
>
>Users who downloaded the original version of 
>EyeNote™ will automatically reeceive 
>notification on their devices that an updated 
>version of the app is available to download. 
>Others can download the upgraded version for 
>free through the Apple App Store℠ via iTunes®.
>
>More information about EyeNote™ is availaable at 
><http://www.eyenote.gov>www.eyenote.gov
>
>
>Upgraded Currency Reader App Launched by Bureau of Engraving and Printing
>
>A new version of the EyeNote™ mobille device 
>application (app) that denominates U.S. currency 
>was released by the Department of the 
>Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing 
>(BEP) today, replacing the version originally 
>launched in April 2011. The newer version is 
>easier and quicker to operate because it uses a 
>continuous scan function to identify the note, 
>rather than requiring the user to take a picture.
>
>EyeNote™ can be downlooaded for free onto many 
>Apple iPhone, iPad, and iPod products. It 
>recognizes all Federal Reserve notes issued 
>since 1996, including the new $100 note that 
>began circulating in October, and communicates 
>the denomination back to the user through an 
>audible response (English or Spanish) or a 
>vibration pulse mode for privacy. EyeNote™ was 
>ddeveloped by BEP as an interim solution to 
>increase accessibility to Federal Reserve notes 
>among blind and visually impaired individuals 
>while the U.S. government develops a system of 
>raised tactile features to incorporate into future redesigned notes.
>
>“The recent enhancements made to the EyeNote™ 
>app make it an even more effective tool to 
>aassist people in denominating U.S. currency,” 
>said Treasurer of the United States Rosie Rios. 
>“It offers portability and speed, both 
>requirements when used in a retail environment, 
>and the convenience of not needing to carry 
>around a separate reader by using one’s 
>personal mobile device.” The EyeNote™ app has 
>more than 14,000 ddownloads since the 2011 launch.
>
>Users who downloaded the original version of 
>EyeNote™ will automatically receive 
>notificcation on their devices that an updated 
>version of the app is available to download. 
>Others can download the upgraded version for 
>free through the Apple App Store℠ via iTunes®.
>
>More information about EyeNote™ is available at www.eyenote.gov.
>
>
>Sabra L. Pressman
>External Relations Specialist
>Bureau of Engraving & Printing
>14th & C Sts. NW
>Washington, DC 20228
>202-874-1205
><mailto:Sabra.pressman at bep.gov>Sabra.pressman at bep.gov
>

From cathy at blindtraining.com  Sat Dec 21 13:27:20 2013
From: cathy at blindtraining.com (CathyAnne)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 07:27:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] New Textbooks Available
Message-ID: <auto-000136359902@mailfront4.g2host.com>

I'm pleased to announce two textbooks are now available for purchase.



An Immersion into PowerPoint 2013 with JAWS for Windows

An Immersion into PowerPoint 2013 with Window-Eyes



For more information and to purchase these textbooks, please visit:



http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2013.htm







CathyAnne



CathyAnne Murtha

Director

Access Technology Institute

Twitter: www.twitter.com/CathyAnneMurtha
<http://www.twitter.com/CathyAnneMurtha>

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CathyAnneMurtha

cathy at blindtraining.com <mailto:cathy at blindtraining.com>

www.blindtraining.com <http://www.blindtraining.com/> 



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Sat Dec 21 14:08:41 2013
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 08:08:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <003901cefe09$4a014100$de03c300$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000014769098@mailback3.g2host.com>

Joe,

As someone who has worked with the platform as you do, I am curious if you have found anything that the "more accessible" mode does.  When 
accessing pages, I have yet to find anything that changes with Window-Eyes and have always wondered what I might be missing.  <smile>

My experience sounds similar to yours in that I don't enjoy using it although one gets better at it.  However, I am at the point where I am just thankful when 
something isn't completely inaccessible.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:58:28 -0500, Joe wrote:

>I'm working on building a SharePoint platform at work as one of my
>assignments. It's a pain in the butt, but surprisingly, I have not yet
>encountered something I could not do. The accessible mode is quasi helpful,
>but if you do wind up using the system, my best advice is to read general
>tutorials. Familiarize yourself with the concepts and terminology and then
>break it up into small tasks to learn one area of the system at a time.
>Personally, I don't see the love fest with SharePoint, but it's not likely
>to go away anytime soon. And, it will help add to your marketability later.
>I'm using SP 2010 at work. They're migrating us to 2013, and this latter
>version is supposed to be a lot better.

>Joe

>Joe

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity
>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:48 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice Thread

>Good afternoon,

>I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the following
>programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

>My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of things
>at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is accessible
>with a screenreader.

>I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and
>implementation of technology and websites.  The university is launching
>Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their classes.  I have
>read the accessibility documentation, but I am still hesitant that it is
>accessible to screenreaders, especially since some of the documentation
>wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any experience with this program?


>--
>Julie McG
>National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National Federation
>of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of
>Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008 "For
>God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who
>believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
>John 3:16

>_______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 17:25:23 2013
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:25:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
Message-ID: <52b5cf1b.a2e3ec0a.401e.ffffb401@mx.google.com>

I would ask rehab to purchase a braillenote apex for you. I'm 
only in high school, so I can't talk specifically about college, 
but I'm found my braillenote VERY useful in my education. It can 
read many types of files, including PDF's, word files, and 
poerpoints. Also, unlike other notetakers, you can write nemeth 
symbols on the braillenote and have them come out on print, 
making it useful in math classes. Good luck in your college 
career!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:13:08 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  
This
is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as 
cost
is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help 
you
in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend 
trying to
get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you 
could
purchase the books and see if disability support services could 
scan
the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my 
school
did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  
Don't
be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your 
degree.
 Good luck.

On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
 It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student 
services
 scans the books into electronic format.

 I have been out of school for over 15 years and applied for 
rehab and they
 are paying for my schooling. some states have very long wait 
lists. I was
 albe to get on in about 3 months. They purchased a portable cctv 
for me.

 You do have to have the goal of employment form the school in 
order for
 rehab to pay for

 Good luck


 On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Helga Schreiber <
 helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you 
that for
 paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. 
I apply
 every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, 
they
 actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next 
semester! And as
 for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in 
Braille,
 or
 get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them 
in
 Braille!
 But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your 
books in
 Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my 
books in
 PDF
 format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because 
sometimes
 the
 words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, 
and very
 messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! 
:)

 -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten
 Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

 Hi Everyone:

 Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the 
plunge.
 I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I 
registered
 for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
 Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To 
Creative
 writing, and a University Library course which is library 
research
 which is a class that is required for my major.
 I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping 
out
 because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just 
weren't
 working out.
 I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to 
school,
 but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to 
find
 and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would 
be my
 best option currently. I figured going back to school would give 
me
 something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the 
house, I
 could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I 
haven't
 been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything 
is
 right near each other and once I get to the student union I 
should
 have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
 student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either 
go
 back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union 
there
 is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for 
all
 these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
 Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some
 questions.
 First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I 
have a
 very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess 
I
 could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is 
a
 very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't 
even
 make it anymore!
 Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
 Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
 Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an 
Ipad?
 What is the advantage of this over just using the plain 
notetaker?
 How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to 
get me a
 new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the 
notetakers
 still widely used even though they are overpriced?
 The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right 
there
 and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If 
I am
 going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some 
sort of
 braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to 
listen
 to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or 
speech at
 the same time.
 How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
 I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do 
best with
 electronic copies of the books.
 What is the current way of going about getting books 
electronically?
 Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay 
attention
 to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my 
bill.
 For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to 
help me
 pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
 How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
 trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did 
well in
 my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I 
have
 no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job 
after
 college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now 
I am
 feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing 
because
 it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I 
have no
 idea how to justify that type of money.
 When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little 
different
 because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go 
further
 without it. Training was my only option at that time for 
bettering
 myself.
 I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? 
Does
 Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right 
away or
 even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
 totally different/unrelated?
 Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
 Kerri

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
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 helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

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From i.c.bray at win.net  Sat Dec 21 17:39:08 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 12:39:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,
	and a BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone
	5
References: <BLU404-EAS167EC13501D3F1FB4CBFB47F5C50@phx.gbl><77E9240C-5446-4F1E-8794-F3F494E4CE5E@gmail.com><BLU172-DS984DAA261AB3A5D3F912DF5C40@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1kAoo6rOGjezyBoXrBwhHM88Dy4_Eg9NviJYOzCQt-CYw@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS88218924E07AE6495E0BBF5C40@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1mZ+7hirnjpiFALcvMh6qX47D3Fg-R1EijRu82e4mMTgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C33AF1F5E7FC4D51A97279F558D8DE8B@JAWS>

I believe that it is the SH Chord
or, 1+4+6+SPACE
Here is a link I posted earlier for commands... it is an excellent resource
http://support.sas.com/misc/accessibility/education/ios/quickref.html#basicCommands
Hope it helps.

Ian



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Silveira" <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a 
BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5


: I'm not sure how to turn the screen keyboard off while using the Apex.
: I thought it went off automatically.  I actually don't have an Apex
: myself, but I have used them and, in the capacity of an assistive tech
: instructor, have taught them in combination with the iPhone.  Yes,
: there are a number of commands you can use from the Apex to control
: the phone.  Off the top of my head, I can think of: chord M (M + the
: space bar) to mute and unmute voiceover and chord H (H plus the space
: bar) to return to the home screen.  I can see if I can find a list of
: commands for you and I'll also look into how to turn off the screen
: keyboard.  Again, I thought that disappeared automatically when the
: Apex is connected, but apparently not.  I know on the Apple Bluetooth
: keyboards, pressing the top key on the upper right-hand corner (I'm
: drawing a blank on what key that would actually be) will turn on and
: off the screen keybaord, but I can't think of how to do it with the
: Apex.  Anyone else have some insight on that?  Hope this helps.  I'll
: get back to you with a list of commands for the Apex when I find them.
:
: Ryan
:
: On 12/20/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
: > Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that my
: > BrailleNote works with my iPhone! I just wanted to ask you, Do you know 
how
: >
: > to take the screen keyboard off when you are typing with the BrailleNote
: > Apex? I'm just wondering, since everytime I'm writing a text message or 
an
: > email message, the screen keyboard always appears, and I don't know how 
to
: > take it off! I will really appreciate it, if you could help me with 
this.
: > Thanks and God bless!! :)
: > P.S. Also, it is true that they are some commands that you need to learn 
in
: >
: > order to control the IPhone right? Thanks again! :)
: >
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: Ryan Silveira
: > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:58 AM
: > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard, and a
: > BrailleNote Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
: >
: > Yeah, it definitely makes it easier to use the iPhone when you're
: > controling it from a bluetooth device.  And the nice thing about the
: > braille note is that you can mute Voiceover and just use the braille
: > display.  Hopefully your Lighthouse instructor can help you set it up.
: > If you need help setting it up, e-mail me off-list and I will be
: > happy to give you step-by-step instructions on exactly what you need
: > to do to connect the Apex.  The process is a little bit different than
: > connecting a regular bluetooth keyboard.  Let me know if you need
: > anymore help.
: >
: > Ryan
: >
: > On 12/19/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
: >> Hi Ryan. Thanks so much for your suggestion. Yeah, I really don't want 
to
: >> use the Bluetooth Keyboard and the BrailleNote Apex at the same time! I
: >> will
: >>
: >> definitely try to connect my Apex display tomorrow with the help of my
: >> Lighthouse instructor! Thanks and God bless!
: >>
: >> P.S. The reason I would like to connect my BrailleNote to my iPhone is
: >> because I want to read my emails and text messages in Braille, and be
: >> able
: >> to control my iPhone 5.
: >> -----Original Message-----
: >> From: Ryan Silveira
: >> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:47 PM
: >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can you connect a Bluetooth Keyboard,and a
: >> BrailleNote
: >>
: >> Apex Display in order to to use it with theiPhone 5
: >>
: >> Hi Helga,
: >>
: >> Yes, you can connect both the Apex braille display and the bluetooth
: >> keyboard to use with your iPhone.  I wouldn't use both at once, but you
: >> can
: >>
: >> have both connected.  I believe you can have up to eight devices paired
: >> with
: >>
: >> your phone.  Hope this helps.
: >>
: >> Ryan
: >> On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:33 PM, Helga Schreiber
: >> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
: >> wrote:
: >>
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
: >>> already have my Bluetooth Keyboard connected to my iPhone, and I'm 
using
: >>> it a lot! I just wanted to ask you, can I connect a BrailleNote Apex
: >>> display even though I have a Bluetooth Keyboard connected in order to
: >>> use
: >>>
: >>> it with the iPhone 5? I will really apppreciate it if you could give 
me
: >>> some suggestions regarding  this. Thanks and God bless!! :) Sent from 
my
: >>> iPhone
: >>> _______________________________________________
: >>> nabs-l mailing list
: >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: >>> nabs-l:
: >>> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
: >>
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
: >> nabs-l mailing list
: >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: >> nabs-l:
: >> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >> _______________________________________________
: >> nabs-l mailing list
: >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: >> nabs-l:
: >> 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
: >>
: >
: >
: > --
: > Ryan L. Silveira
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
: >
: >
: >
: > _______________________________________________
: > nabs-l mailing list
: > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: > nabs-l:
: > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
: >
:
:
: -- 
: Ryan L. Silveira
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 21 18:08:21 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:08:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <52b5cf1b.a2e3ec0a.401e.ffffb401@mx.google.com>
References: <52b5cf1b.a2e3ec0a.401e.ffffb401@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A62C4BEE-BD4E-4D42-A956-1DDEF6A87195@fuse.net>

In my opinion, I think the Braille sense would be better suited for a college student. It has drop box which I use in school as well as the ability to read excel files. For math classes, I would get nemitex if you could.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I would ask rehab to purchase a braillenote apex for you. I'm only in high school, so I can't talk specifically about college, but I'm found my braillenote VERY useful in my education. It can read many types of files, including PDF's, word files, and poerpoints. Also, unlike other notetakers, you can write nemeth symbols on the braillenote and have them come out on print, making it useful in math classes. Good luck in your college career!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:13:08 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  This
> is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as cost
> is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help you
> in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend trying to
> get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you could
> purchase the books and see if disability support services could scan
> the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my school
> did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  Don't
> be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your degree.
> Good luck.
> 
> On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
> scans the books into electronic format.


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 18:15:24 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:15:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <A62C4BEE-BD4E-4D42-A956-1DDEF6A87195@fuse.net>
References: <52b5cf1b.a2e3ec0a.401e.ffffb401@mx.google.com>
	<A62C4BEE-BD4E-4D42-A956-1DDEF6A87195@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYkqHoa46+=kYt0Qjk2xz18+ui-_1OJH=aATcYB8XKk0w@mail.gmail.com>

As a college student who uses a BrailleSense, I agree.  I also like
the browsing features and think they work a little better than the
BrailleNote's internet system.  Also, no pesky kwb or kwt files to
worry about!

The latest version of the U2 would be my recommendation.

On 12/21/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> In my opinion, I think the Braille sense would be better suited for a
> college student. It has drop box which I use in school as well as the
> ability to read excel files. For math classes, I would get nemitex if you
> could.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would ask rehab to purchase a braillenote apex for you. I'm only in high
>> school, so I can't talk specifically about college, but I'm found my
>> braillenote VERY useful in my education. It can read many types of files,
>> including PDF's, word files, and poerpoints. Also, unlike other
>> notetakers, you can write nemeth symbols on the braillenote and have them
>> come out on print, making it useful in math classes. Good luck in your
>> college career!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:13:08 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  This
>> is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as cost
>> is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help you
>> in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend trying to
>> get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you could
>> purchase the books and see if disability support services could scan
>> the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my school
>> did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  Don't
>> be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your degree.
>> Good luck.
>>
>> On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>> It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
>> scans the books into electronic format.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 21 18:18:42 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:18:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYkqHoa46+=kYt0Qjk2xz18+ui-_1OJH=aATcYB8XKk0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5cf1b.a2e3ec0a.401e.ffffb401@mx.google.com>
	<A62C4BEE-BD4E-4D42-A956-1DDEF6A87195@fuse.net>
	<CAFja7FYkqHoa46+=kYt0Qjk2xz18+ui-_1OJH=aATcYB8XKk0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2AEE1160-A435-4167-B17D-2D5B8F2327FC@fuse.net>

I forgot to mention you can write in grade 2 in any file type. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As a college student who uses a BrailleSense, I agree.  I also like
> the browsing features and think they work a little better than the
> BrailleNote's internet system.  Also, no pesky kwb or kwt files to
> worry about!
> 
> The latest version of the U2 would be my recommendation.
> 
>> On 12/21/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
>> In my opinion, I think the Braille sense would be better suited for a
>> college student. It has drop box which I use in school as well as the
>> ability to read excel files. For math classes, I would get nemitex if you
>> could.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would ask rehab to purchase a braillenote apex for you. I'm only in high
>>> school, so I can't talk specifically about college, but I'm found my
>>> braillenote VERY useful in my education. It can read many types of files,
>>> including PDF's, word files, and poerpoints. Also, unlike other
>>> notetakers, you can write nemeth symbols on the braillenote and have them
>>> come out on print, making it useful in math classes. Good luck in your
>>> college career!
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 03:13:08 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>> 
>>> Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  This
>>> is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as cost
>>> is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help you
>>> in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend trying to
>>> get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you could
>>> purchase the books and see if disability support services could scan
>>> the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my school
>>> did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  Don't
>>> be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your degree.
>>> Good luck.
>>> 
>>> On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
>>> scans the books into electronic format.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From lizzym0827 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 19:15:41 2013
From: lizzym0827 at gmail.com (lizzy)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:15:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
Message-ID: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>

Hi all,
I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the 
discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of 
disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done? 
Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan 
for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does 
anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a 
machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a 
hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
Thanks,
Lizzy


From louvins at gmail.com  Sat Dec 21 19:58:02 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 13:58:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.

On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
> Thanks,
> Lizzy
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 22 00:23:40 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:23:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!! :-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
> 
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From louvins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 01:28:58 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:28:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Helga.  I'm very surprised that your DS office doesn't have some
kind of scanner to scan books.  I wouldn't want my books in pdf format
either.  See if you could get your books in an alternative format like
word .docx.  What would probably work for you is if you could get your
books in daisy format, then you could navigate by chapters, sections,
and subsections, whatever markup the books had.  Check bookshare.org,
they are a great source of textbooks if you don't like learning ally.
You can get bookshare for free if you are a college student.  Also,
you can get learning ally for free, if you fill out a form over the
phone.  Basically, if you receive things like SSI or SSDI, then you
can get learning ally for free.  They don't advertise this fact.  I
was fortunate to find out about it.  Good luck.  If my college is open
on Monday, I'll call them, and see what I can find out.

On 12/21/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>


From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 08:11:03 2013
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 03:11:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone:

Thanks for all the responses. They help a lot.
I hate to say this, but I don't really like the idea of the whole
laptop thing in class. I have hearing loss, and it would be a little
hard for me to listen to the jaws with a headphone, and listen to the
professor. I have hearing in only one ear, so while the earbuds I use
don't block out all sound I'd really really prefer a braille display.
What I figured is if I could get rehab to get me a new notetaker I
could always buy an Ipad and pair the notetaker with the ipad or just
take notes on the notetaker regularly.
In order to justify to rehab to get a new notetaker, does my current
one (an old pacmate) have to be broken?
I don't believe my pacmate is technically broken, it's just that it's
so old. It doesn't have an actual USB drive on it.
It also has no built in wireless so basically it has no internet.
It uses the windows mobile operating system which is like obselete now.
I guess it does technically work though for very basic notetaking.
If I purchased an Ipad and one of those cases that has a keyboard in
it, would rehab still buy me a notetaker?
I think I would prefer to have a notetaker such as the Braille Sense
U2 to accompany/compliment whatever else I decide to use.
I also may sound lazy, but my laptop (at least to me) is a little
heavy and big. I have a case for my laptop and when my laptop is in it
it makes it a little heavy.
I've been told there are backpacks I could purchase that have a
special place for the laptop and then the backpack also has room for
other things, but I think I'm going to become very annoyed with trying
to lug my laptop around every day.
When I have had to travel and taken airplanes where I have to carry my
laptop through the airport, it gets heavy and my shoulders tire
quickly.
Are the Ipads light?
If the way to go is to use an Ipad with a bluetooth keyboard would the
Ipad be lighter and less bulky to carry around than the laptop?
Also, if I got the Ipad would rehab turn that against me and not
purchase me a new notetaker such as the braille senseu2?
Thanks,
Kerri

On 12/21/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Helga.  I'm very surprised that your DS office doesn't have some
> kind of scanner to scan books.  I wouldn't want my books in pdf format
> either.  See if you could get your books in an alternative format like
> word .docx.  What would probably work for you is if you could get your
> books in daisy format, then you could navigate by chapters, sections,
> and subsections, whatever markup the books had.  Check bookshare.org,
> they are a great source of textbooks if you don't like learning ally.
> You can get bookshare for free if you are a college student.  Also,
> you can get learning ally for free, if you fill out a form over the
> phone.  Basically, if you receive things like SSI or SSDI, then you
> can get learning ally for free.  They don't advertise this fact.  I
> was fortunate to find out about it.  Good luck.  If my college is open
> on Monday, I'll call them, and see what I can find out.
>
> On 12/21/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have
>> a
>>
>> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
>> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
>> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God
>> bless!!
>> :-) from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lizzy
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From louvins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 08:48:17 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 02:48:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9sM_w3O7jtV4D2ZVw45YKrgGYwp7OMXN2=T4aN1Vip_WQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kerri.  I don't know how rehab works for each state.  For me, if
you got rehab to pay for a braille-sense u2, that would be one single
device you'd have to carry around.  it would be lighter than a laptop.
 As for an EYEPAD with bluetooth keyboard, that would be separate
equipment.  The choice to buy one along with a keyboard is completely
up to you.  I know my pacmate that I had from rehab wouldn't work now
for my needs.  My unit wasn't broke either.  I'm hoping that rehab
will pay for my braille-sense u2 but if not, I'm trying to save up
money to buy one.  The pacmate that I currently have will be a trade
in which will give me about $800 off the original purchase of a u2.
I'm just trying to cover all basis just in case rehab wouldn't pay for
a u2.  I would suggest just calling rehab, and asking your counselor
some of the questions that you have.  Then you'd know exactly what
they would and not pay for.  Good luck.

On 12/22/13, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Everyone:
>
> Thanks for all the responses. They help a lot.
> I hate to say this, but I don't really like the idea of the whole
> laptop thing in class. I have hearing loss, and it would be a little
> hard for me to listen to the jaws with a headphone, and listen to the
> professor. I have hearing in only one ear, so while the earbuds I use
> don't block out all sound I'd really really prefer a braille display.
> What I figured is if I could get rehab to get me a new notetaker I
> could always buy an Ipad and pair the notetaker with the ipad or just
> take notes on the notetaker regularly.
> In order to justify to rehab to get a new notetaker, does my current
> one (an old pacmate) have to be broken?
> I don't believe my pacmate is technically broken, it's just that it's
> so old. It doesn't have an actual USB drive on it.
> It also has no built in wireless so basically it has no internet.
> It uses the windows mobile operating system which is like obselete now.
> I guess it does technically work though for very basic notetaking.
> If I purchased an Ipad and one of those cases that has a keyboard in
> it, would rehab still buy me a notetaker?
> I think I would prefer to have a notetaker such as the Braille Sense
> U2 to accompany/compliment whatever else I decide to use.
> I also may sound lazy, but my laptop (at least to me) is a little
> heavy and big. I have a case for my laptop and when my laptop is in it
> it makes it a little heavy.
> I've been told there are backpacks I could purchase that have a
> special place for the laptop and then the backpack also has room for
> other things, but I think I'm going to become very annoyed with trying
> to lug my laptop around every day.
> When I have had to travel and taken airplanes where I have to carry my
> laptop through the airport, it gets heavy and my shoulders tire
> quickly.
> Are the Ipads light?
> If the way to go is to use an Ipad with a bluetooth keyboard would the
> Ipad be lighter and less bulky to carry around than the laptop?
> Also, if I got the Ipad would rehab turn that against me and not
> purchase me a new notetaker such as the braille senseu2?
> Thanks,
> Kerri
>
> On 12/21/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Helga.  I'm very surprised that your DS office doesn't have some
>> kind of scanner to scan books.  I wouldn't want my books in pdf format
>> either.  See if you could get your books in an alternative format like
>> word .docx.  What would probably work for you is if you could get your
>> books in daisy format, then you could navigate by chapters, sections,
>> and subsections, whatever markup the books had.  Check bookshare.org,
>> they are a great source of textbooks if you don't like learning ally.
>> You can get bookshare for free if you are a college student.  Also,
>> you can get learning ally for free, if you fill out a form over the
>> phone.  Basically, if you receive things like SSI or SSDI, then you
>> can get learning ally for free.  They don't advertise this fact.  I
>> was fortunate to find out about it.  Good luck.  If my college is open
>> on Monday, I'll call them, and see what I can find out.
>>
>> On 12/21/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have
>>> a
>>>
>>> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
>>> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
>>> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God
>>> bless!!
>>> :-) from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>>>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>>>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>>>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>>>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>>>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>>>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>>>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>>>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>>>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>>>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Lizzy
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 13:02:09 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 08:02:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>	<CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401ceff16$06a1e640$13e5b2c0$@gmail.com>

No, it does not have to be broken.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 3:11 AM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Thanks for all the responses. They help a lot.
I hate to say this, but I don't really like the idea of the whole laptop
thing in class. I have hearing loss, and it would be a little hard for me to
listen to the jaws with a headphone, and listen to the professor. I have
hearing in only one ear, so while the earbuds I use don't block out all
sound I'd really really prefer a braille display.
What I figured is if I could get rehab to get me a new notetaker I could
always buy an Ipad and pair the notetaker with the ipad or just take notes
on the notetaker regularly.
In order to justify to rehab to get a new notetaker, does my current one (an
old pacmate) have to be broken?
I don't believe my pacmate is technically broken, it's just that it's so
old. It doesn't have an actual USB drive on it.
It also has no built in wireless so basically it has no internet.
It uses the windows mobile operating system which is like obselete now.
I guess it does technically work though for very basic notetaking.
If I purchased an Ipad and one of those cases that has a keyboard in it,
would rehab still buy me a notetaker?
I think I would prefer to have a notetaker such as the Braille Sense
U2 to accompany/compliment whatever else I decide to use.
I also may sound lazy, but my laptop (at least to me) is a little heavy and
big. I have a case for my laptop and when my laptop is in it it makes it a
little heavy.
I've been told there are backpacks I could purchase that have a special
place for the laptop and then the backpack also has room for other things,
but I think I'm going to become very annoyed with trying to lug my laptop
around every day.
When I have had to travel and taken airplanes where I have to carry my
laptop through the airport, it gets heavy and my shoulders tire quickly.
Are the Ipads light?
If the way to go is to use an Ipad with a bluetooth keyboard would the Ipad
be lighter and less bulky to carry around than the laptop?
Also, if I got the Ipad would rehab turn that against me and not purchase me
a new notetaker such as the braille senseu2?
Thanks,
Kerri

On 12/21/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Helga.  I'm very surprised that your DS office doesn't have some 
> kind of scanner to scan books.  I wouldn't want my books in pdf format 
> either.  See if you could get your books in an alternative format like 
> word .docx.  What would probably work for you is if you could get your 
> books in daisy format, then you could navigate by chapters, sections, 
> and subsections, whatever markup the books had.  Check bookshare.org, 
> they are a great source of textbooks if you don't like learning ally.
> You can get bookshare for free if you are a college student.  Also, 
> you can get learning ally for free, if you fill out a form over the 
> phone.  Basically, if you receive things like SSI or SSDI, then you 
> can get learning ally for free.  They don't advertise this fact.  I 
> was fortunate to find out about it.  Good luck.  If my college is open 
> on Monday, I'll call them, and see what I can find out.
>
> On 12/21/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't 
>> have a
>>
>> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! 
>> What should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll 
>> really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks 
>> and God bless!!
>> :-) from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" 
>>> <louvins at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the 
>>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability 
>>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my 
>>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed 
>>> using kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I 
>>> know now my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in 
>>> daisy format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office 
>>> scan the books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned 
>>> and proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if 
>>> you're looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 
>>> would be your best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me
one.
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the 
>>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of 
>>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan for 
>>>> you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does anyone 
>>>> scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a machine that 
>>>> can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a hassle to get the 
>>>> PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lizzy
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%
>>> 40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail
> .com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 22 14:30:03 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 09:30:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :) 

Sent from my iPhone

From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 15:16:29 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:16:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>	<CADUoy9tPD+=-VQhcKisg1pBDQacL5bbg4ry2M4Q-P9uNnYytDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM6GWxw=EiGh2xdTm16JZxWSgZZPaeKLYfqmqfXdgPC0W2X1TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801ceff28$ca50c9f0$5ef25dd0$@gmail.com>

Kerri,

There's nothing lazy about not wanting to carry around a heavy laptop. No
one likes to do this, and one way to confront that problem is by buying one
of the newer ultrabooks. I just bought a refurbished XPS 13 from Amazon for
$649, no chump change but better than the original $1,049 Dell is charging.
In the case of the XPS 13, you're looking at a laptop that weighs just under
three pounds and is actually smaller than the MacBook Air 13. Dell has been
my preferred PC maker, but Asus, HP, and Lenovo make good products.

The iPad is a tablet and will therefore be lighter than any laptop out
there, at least for now. I get the sense you may not have interacted with an
iPad, so if it's possible, I would go into an Apple store so you can hold
one and get some familiarity with some of the different ways data is
displayed on the larger screen.

My feelings on the iPad is that it's not 100% economical for blind
consumers. If you already have an iPhone, buy yourself one of the Apple
Bluetooth keyboards and use it with your iPhone. Office is now available on
iOS, but it's not accessible. IA Writer and NoteMaster are two apps that
will work for word processing. Check AppleVis.com for more suggestions. I
would not invest in the word processing app from AFB, but that's just
personal opinion. Even if you bought an Apple keyboard and purchased a few
word processing apps you're still spending a lot less than you would buying
a new iPad.

What you buy on your own will not, or should not, concern your rehab
counselor. I think you should figure out what equipment you need and then
determine what is essential and save money for the rest. The U2 is an
excellent choice and would be a justified purchase. The Apex is also a fine
notetaker, but it's competitive edge stops at its physical appearance. It's
more cumbersome to do simple tasks that the Windows interface of the U2 lets
you do in fewer steps. If I could stuff the guts of the U2 into the body of
an Apex, and slap on the U2 keyboard, you'd have a damn near perfect
notetaker. It would still be too over-priced for what it can actually do,
but it's what we have to work with at the moment.

I got stuck with a Pacmate at work. It just sits there. The interface will
work just fine and, like the U2, really tries to mimic the Windows
environment. I use it occasionally to take notes in meetings, but I use a
laptop instead more often than not.

Okay, probably far more than you wanted or needed to read, but I hope some
of it is helpful.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 3:11 AM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Thanks for all the responses. They help a lot.
I hate to say this, but I don't really like the idea of the whole laptop
thing in class. I have hearing loss, and it would be a little hard for me to
listen to the jaws with a headphone, and listen to the professor. I have
hearing in only one ear, so while the earbuds I use don't block out all
sound I'd really really prefer a braille display.
What I figured is if I could get rehab to get me a new notetaker I could
always buy an Ipad and pair the notetaker with the ipad or just take notes
on the notetaker regularly.
In order to justify to rehab to get a new notetaker, does my current one (an
old pacmate) have to be broken?
I don't believe my pacmate is technically broken, it's just that it's so
old. It doesn't have an actual USB drive on it.
It also has no built in wireless so basically it has no internet.
It uses the windows mobile operating system which is like obselete now.
I guess it does technically work though for very basic notetaking.
If I purchased an Ipad and one of those cases that has a keyboard in it,
would rehab still buy me a notetaker?
I think I would prefer to have a notetaker such as the Braille Sense
U2 to accompany/compliment whatever else I decide to use.
I also may sound lazy, but my laptop (at least to me) is a little heavy and
big. I have a case for my laptop and when my laptop is in it it makes it a
little heavy.
I've been told there are backpacks I could purchase that have a special
place for the laptop and then the backpack also has room for other things,
but I think I'm going to become very annoyed with trying to lug my laptop
around every day.
When I have had to travel and taken airplanes where I have to carry my
laptop through the airport, it gets heavy and my shoulders tire quickly.
Are the Ipads light?
If the way to go is to use an Ipad with a bluetooth keyboard would the Ipad
be lighter and less bulky to carry around than the laptop?
Also, if I got the Ipad would rehab turn that against me and not purchase me
a new notetaker such as the braille senseu2?
Thanks,
Kerri

On 12/21/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Helga.  I'm very surprised that your DS office doesn't have some 
> kind of scanner to scan books.  I wouldn't want my books in pdf format 
> either.  See if you could get your books in an alternative format like 
> word .docx.  What would probably work for you is if you could get your 
> books in daisy format, then you could navigate by chapters, sections, 
> and subsections, whatever markup the books had.  Check bookshare.org, 
> they are a great source of textbooks if you don't like learning ally.
> You can get bookshare for free if you are a college student.  Also, 
> you can get learning ally for free, if you fill out a form over the 
> phone.  Basically, if you receive things like SSI or SSDI, then you 
> can get learning ally for free.  They don't advertise this fact.  I 
> was fortunate to find out about it.  Good luck.  If my college is open 
> on Monday, I'll call them, and see what I can find out.
>
> On 12/21/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't 
>> have a
>>
>> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! 
>> What should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll 
>> really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks 
>> and God bless!!
>> :-) from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" 
>>> <louvins at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the 
>>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability 
>>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my 
>>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed 
>>> using kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I 
>>> know now my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in 
>>> daisy format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office 
>>> scan the books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned 
>>> and proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if 
>>> you're looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 
>>> would be your best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me
one.
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the 
>>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of 
>>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan for 
>>>> you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does anyone 
>>>> scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a machine that 
>>>> can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a hassle to get the 
>>>> PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lizzy
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%
>>> 40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail
> .com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 15:19:56 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 10:19:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
	and Voice Thread
In-Reply-To: <auto-000014769098@mailback3.g2host.com>
References: <003901cefe09$4a014100$de03c300$@gmail.com>
	<auto-000014769098@mailback3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <006901ceff29$45aada50$d1008ef0$@gmail.com>

Steve,

Shhhhh. If I think it makes SharePoint work better, it will hopefully become
true. LOL It really is psychological for me, but I suppose there have been a
few times when the accessible mode has made clicking on links a little more
smoother. When I click on Site Actions, for example, I seem to get to the
menu I want faster? Maybe? I'm grasping here. We'll see what 2013 brings for
me when the migration is complete next month.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Jacobson [mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 9:09 AM
To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice
Thread

Joe,

As someone who has worked with the platform as you do, I am curious if you
have found anything that the "more accessible" mode does.  When accessing
pages, I have yet to find anything that changes with Window-Eyes and have
always wondered what I might be missing.  <smile>

My experience sounds similar to yours in that I don't enjoy using it
although one gets better at it.  However, I am at the point where I am just
thankful when something isn't completely inaccessible.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 23:58:28 -0500, Joe wrote:

>I'm working on building a SharePoint platform at work as one of my 
>assignments. It's a pain in the butt, but surprisingly, I have not yet 
>encountered something I could not do. The accessible mode is quasi 
>helpful, but if you do wind up using the system, my best advice is to 
>read general tutorials. Familiarize yourself with the concepts and 
>terminology and then break it up into small tasks to learn one area of the
system at a time.
>Personally, I don't see the love fest with SharePoint, but it's not 
>likely to go away anytime soon. And, it will help add to your marketability
later.
>I'm using SP 2010 at work. They're migrating us to 2013, and this 
>latter version is supposed to be a lot better.

>Joe

>Joe

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie 
>McGinnity
>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:48 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of Share Point, One Note, and Voice 
>Thread

>Good afternoon,

>I would like feedback from those of you who have used any of the 
>following
>programs: Share Point, One Note, or Voice Thread.

>My boss is considering using Share Point or One Note to keep track of 
>things at work, so I was tasked with finding out if either of them is 
>accessible with a screenreader.

>I work at the University of Missouri assisting in the testing and 
>implementation of technology and websites.  The university is launching 
>Voice Thread as an option for professors to use in their classes.  I 
>have read the accessibility documentation, but I am still hesitant that 
>it is accessible to screenreaders, especially since some of the 
>documentation wasn't accessible.  Does anyone have any experience with this
program?


>--
>Julie McG
>National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National 
>Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri 
>Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the 
>Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only 
>Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
eternal life."
>John 3:16

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.co
>m


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40vi
>si.com






From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 17:42:39 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:42:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>

Helga,

To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons. However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the iPad.

To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model it is $9.99.

Hope this helps,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :) 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 22 19:20:26 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:20:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>

Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch for school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I have an iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my contract is not over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device where I could edit and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask you, does the iPod touch has a Microsoft word included and it comes for for free? Just curious! And if it does, that will be a beneficial device for school! I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Helga,
> 
> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons. However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the iPad.
> 
> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model it is $9.99.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :) 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 19:22:39 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:22:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAIPMsDPMIhtLn5iU/6lemFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hi,
it's got pages, which is like the IOS of Microsoft office. You can read and
write documents, save them, etc.
Ryan


Ryan Bishop
Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
480-221-5195
Secretary 
Arizona Association of blind students
http://az.nfb.org/aabs
Webmaster
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
http://az.nfb.org
Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax
deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind
today! For more information, please visit:
http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
or call
1-855-659-9314

The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is
the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person
has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.

Confidentiality Notice: 
This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to
individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad

Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the
disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch for
school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I have an
iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my contract is not
over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device where I could edit
and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask you, does the iPod touch
has a Microsoft word included and it comes for for free? Just curious! And
if it does, that will be a beneficial device for school! I will really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks
and God bless!! :)  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Helga,
> 
> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The
chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger
and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it
important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to
the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only
reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more
portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
iPad.
> 
> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available
for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages
app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others
in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are
using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model
it is $9.99.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
<helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm
currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to
buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school
and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you,
does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write
my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if
you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)

>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai
l.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co
m



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 22 19:32:21 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:32:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAIPMsDPMIhtLn5iU/6lemFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAIPMsDPMIhtLn5iU/6lemFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU402-EAS274828BF5759B03F4F66789F5C60@phx.gbl>

Hi Ryan, this is helga. Is the iPod touch pages accessible with VoiceOver, and it's a free app right? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!! :) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "ryan bishop" <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> it's got pages, which is like the IOS of Microsoft office. You can read and
> write documents, save them, etc.
> Ryan
> 
> 
> Ryan Bishop
> Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
> 480-221-5195
> Secretary 
> Arizona Association of blind students
> http://az.nfb.org/aabs
> Webmaster
> National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
> http://az.nfb.org
> Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax
> deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind
> today! For more information, please visit:
> http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
> or call
> 1-855-659-9314
> 
> The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is
> the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person
> has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to
> individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
> original message.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
> 
> Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the
> disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch for
> school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I have an
> iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my contract is not
> over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device where I could edit
> and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask you, does the iPod touch
> has a Microsoft word included and it comes for for free? Just curious! And
> if it does, that will be a beneficial device for school! I will really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks
> and God bless!! :)  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Helga,
>> 
>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The
> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger
> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it
> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to
> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only
> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more
> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
> iPad.
>> 
>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available
> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages
> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others
> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are
> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model
> it is $9.99.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm
> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to
> buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school
> and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you,
> does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write
> my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if
> you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)
> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmai
> l.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 19:35:04 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (ryan bishop)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:35:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS274828BF5759B03F4F66789F5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAIPMsDPMIhtLn5iU/6lemFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS274828BF5759B03F4F66789F5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAACa7DK2Fh6xItprtPCj0QZgBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hi Helga,
I do know that it is accessible with voiceover, but I'm not sure if it is
free or not. I will look in to that and email you back.
Ryan


Ryan Bishop
Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
480-221-5195
Secretary 
Arizona Association of blind students
http://az.nfb.org/aabs
Webmaster
National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
http://az.nfb.org
Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax
deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind
today! For more information, please visit:
http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
or call
1-855-659-9314

The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is
the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person
has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.

Confidentiality Notice: 
This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to
individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient,
please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
original message.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad

Hi Ryan, this is helga. Is the iPod touch pages accessible with VoiceOver,
and it's a free app right? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!! :) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "ryan bishop" <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> it's got pages, which is like the IOS of Microsoft office. You can 
> read and write documents, save them, etc.
> Ryan
> 
> 
> Ryan Bishop
> Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
> 480-221-5195
> Secretary
> Arizona Association of blind students
> http://az.nfb.org/aabs
> Webmaster
> National Federation of the Blind of Arizona http://az.nfb.org Vehicle 
> Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax 
> deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the 
> Blind today! For more information, please visit:
> http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
> or call
> 1-855-659-9314
> 
> The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem 
> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a 
> blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a
physical nuisance.
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of 
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged 
> information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to 
> individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all 
> copies of the original message.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga 
> Schreiber
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
> 
> Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the 
> disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch 
> for school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I 
> have an iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my 
> contract is not over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device 
> where I could edit and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask 
> you, does the iPod touch has a Microsoft word included and it comes 
> for for free? Just curious! And if it does, that will be a beneficial 
> device for school! I will really appreciate it, if you could give me 
> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" 
>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Helga,
>> 
>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. 
> The chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is 
> bigger and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some 
> importance to someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind 
> person do not find it important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be 
> a drawback when compared to the much more portable iPhone when I was 
> using an iPad for school. The only reason you might want another device
for school is for memory reasons.
> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much 
> more portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you 
> need for classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I 
> didn't like the iPad.
>> 
>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app 
>> available
> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples 
> pages app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. 
> This app enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share 
> them with others in a variety of different file formats including 
> Microsoft word. If you are using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. 
> If you are using an older model it is $9.99.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your 
> paths straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that 
>>> I'm
> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it 
> for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be 
> worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a 
> Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I 
> just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word 
> int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just 
> wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some 
> suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)
> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.c
> om
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40
> hotmai
> l.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> ail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 22 19:40:45 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:40:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAACa7DK2Fh6xItprtPCj0QZgBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAAIPMsDPMIhtLn5iU/6lemFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS274828BF5759B03F4F66789F5C60@phx.gbl>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAFutN06BG1dAipmPSK+2FdEigQAAEAAAACa7DK2Fh6xItprtPCj0QZgBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS28582F8BEC8AFB3DE4011DCF5C60@phx.gbl>

Thanks so much Ryan. God bless!! Mighty

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:35 PM, "ryan bishop" <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Helga,
> I do know that it is accessible with voiceover, but I'm not sure if it is
> free or not. I will look in to that and email you back.
> Ryan
> 
> 
> Ryan Bishop
> Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
> 480-221-5195
> Secretary 
> Arizona Association of blind students
> http://az.nfb.org/aabs
> Webmaster
> National Federation of the Blind of Arizona
> http://az.nfb.org
> Vehicle Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax
> deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the Blind
> today! For more information, please visit:
> http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
> or call
> 1-855-659-9314
> 
> The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem is
> the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a blind person
> has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a physical nuisance.
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to
> individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
> original message.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
> 
> Hi Ryan, this is helga. Is the iPod touch pages accessible with VoiceOver,
> and it's a free app right? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!! :) 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "ryan bishop" <ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> it's got pages, which is like the IOS of Microsoft office. You can 
>> read and write documents, save them, etc.
>> Ryan
>> 
>> 
>> Ryan Bishop
>> Ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com
>> 480-221-5195
>> Secretary
>> Arizona Association of blind students
>> http://az.nfb.org/aabs
>> Webmaster
>> National Federation of the Blind of Arizona http://az.nfb.org Vehicle 
>> Donations Take the Blind Further, and may qualify you for a tax 
>> deduction. Donate your unwanted car to the National Federation of the 
>> Blind today! For more information, please visit:
>> http://www.carshelpingtheblind.org
>> or call
>> 1-855-659-9314
>> 
>> The problem of blindness is not the lack of eyesight. The real problem 
>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exists. If a 
>> blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness is only a
> physical nuisance.
>> 
>> Confidentiality Notice: 
>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of 
>> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged 
>> information. As such, dispensing of this information should only be to 
>> individuals on a need-to-know basis. If you are not the intended 
>> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all 
>> copies of the original message.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga 
>> Schreiber
>> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 12:20 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
>> 
>> Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the 
>> disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch 
>> for school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I 
>> have an iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my 
>> contract is not over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device 
>> where I could edit and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask 
>> you, does the iPod touch has a Microsoft word included and it comes 
>> for for free? Just curious! And if it does, that will be a beneficial 
>> device for school! I will really appreciate it, if you could give me 
>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" 
>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Helga,
>>> 
>>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. 
>> The chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is 
>> bigger and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some 
>> importance to someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind 
>> person do not find it important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be 
>> a drawback when compared to the much more portable iPhone when I was 
>> using an iPad for school. The only reason you might want another device
> for school is for memory reasons.
>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much 
>> more portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you 
>> need for classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I 
>> didn't like the iPad.
>>> 
>>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app 
>>> available
>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples 
>> pages app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. 
>> This app enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share 
>> them with others in a variety of different file formats including 
>> Microsoft word. If you are using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. 
>> If you are using an older model it is $9.99.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your 
>> paths straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that 
>>>> I'm
>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it 
>> for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be 
>> worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a 
>> Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I 
>> just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word 
>> int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just 
>> wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some 
>> suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40
>> hotmai
>> l.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gm
>> ail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40
>> hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 20:53:13 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda Cape)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 15:53:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
Message-ID: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
Thanks,
Amanda

On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Helga,
>
> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The
> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger
> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it
> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to
> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only
> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more
> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
> iPad.
>
> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available
> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages
> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others
> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are
> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model
> it is $9.99.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it
>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask
>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could
>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate
>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
>> bless!! :)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 20:58:55 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 14:58:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
In-Reply-To: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>

Hi Amanda,

Try warm reset ting it.  Rock the power switch as if your are turning it on and hold it for about 15 seconds.  You'll have to reset all your custom settings, but that should fix the problem.  Hope this helps.

Ryan
On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
> battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
> Thanks,
> Amanda
> 
> On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Helga,
>> 
>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The
>> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger
>> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
>> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it
>> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to
>> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only
>> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more
>> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
>> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
>> iPad.
>> 
>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available
>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages
>> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
>> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others
>> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are
>> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model
>> it is $9.99.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
>> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm
>>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it
>>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask
>>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could
>>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate
>>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
>>> bless!! :)
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 21:22:37 2013
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda Cape)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 16:22:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
In-Reply-To: <3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL57mpF-OotGARWfFOvEAwq4yugTGxUL_0Q1J=HbRnz8x0K1Pg@mail.gmail.com>

That didn't work.
Amanda

On 12/22/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Amanda,
>
> Try warm reset ting it.  Rock the power switch as if your are turning it on
> and hold it for about 15 seconds.  You'll have to reset all your custom
> settings, but that should fix the problem.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
>> battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
>> Thanks,
>> Amanda
>>
>> On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Helga,
>>>
>>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop.
>>> The
>>> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is
>>> bigger
>>> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
>>> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find
>>> it
>>> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared
>>> to
>>> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The
>>> only
>>> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
>>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much
>>> more
>>> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
>>> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
>>> iPad.
>>>
>>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app
>>> available
>>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples
>>> pages
>>> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
>>> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with
>>> others
>>> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you
>>> are
>>> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older
>>> model
>>> it is $9.99.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>> paths
>>> straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
>>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that
>>>> I'm
>>>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>>>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth
>>>> it
>>>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>>>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to
>>>> ask
>>>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I
>>>> could
>>>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really
>>>> appreciate
>>>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and
>>>> God
>>>> bless!! :)
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 21:29:04 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 15:29:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
In-Reply-To: <CAL57mpF-OotGARWfFOvEAwq4yugTGxUL_0Q1J=HbRnz8x0K1Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>
	<CAL57mpF-OotGARWfFOvEAwq4yugTGxUL_0Q1J=HbRnz8x0K1Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5760D606-C37D-4C48-A097-8DDE9C36DA0D@gmail.com>

Ok.  I hate to make you do this, but you may have to hard reset the PacMate.  This will delete everything off of it, so try to back up everything you need.  To hard reset the PacMate, stick a pin or a stylus (like one you would use with a braille slate) into the hole on the underside of the device.  It kind of looks like a screw.  There's a button in there.  Press it lightly with the tip of the stylus or pin and hold for 15 seconds.  Again, it's going to erase everything on the machine.  Let me know if that helps.

Ryan
On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:

> That didn't work.
> Amanda
> 
> On 12/22/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Amanda,
>> 
>> Try warm reset ting it.  Rock the power switch as if your are turning it on
>> and hold it for about 15 seconds.  You'll have to reset all your custom
>> settings, but that should fix the problem.  Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Ryan
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
>>> battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Amanda
>>> 
>>> On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Helga,
>>>> 
>>>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>>>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop.
>>>> The
>>>> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is
>>>> bigger
>>>> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
>>>> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find
>>>> it
>>>> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared
>>>> to
>>>> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The
>>>> only
>>>> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
>>>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much
>>>> more
>>>> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
>>>> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
>>>> iPad.
>>>> 
>>>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app
>>>> available
>>>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples
>>>> pages
>>>> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
>>>> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with
>>>> others
>>>> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you
>>>> are
>>>> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older
>>>> model
>>>> it is $9.99.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>>> paths
>>>> straight."
>>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
>>>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>>>>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth
>>>>> it
>>>>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>>>>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to
>>>>> ask
>>>>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I
>>>>> could
>>>>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and
>>>>> God
>>>>> bless!! :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 01:35:01 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:35:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse instructor send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it. In fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving your documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could you tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you know, I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my iPhone 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for school. Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just curious! I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!! 
-------------- next part --------------
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From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 01:43:17 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:43:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nQ2JDkiLLLmzSj-Q6m7r=DARVY4L6BOHhromt4qBVsF6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,
     I have used DropBox for a long time and really love it. I have it
on both laptops and all three iOS devices. It is easiest to transfer
information from your computer into your DropBox like you would copy
and paste any other document. Go to Windows Explorer with Windows E,
find the file you need, hit Control C, go to your Desktop with Windows
M, find Dropbox, press enter, then paste the file into the folder of
your choice in that DropBox. It will then go to your phone and whoever
you have shared the folder with.
     You can use the DropBox site, which is a bit confusing, to share
one of your folders with someone. If you want help with that, email me
off list and I can help.
     You can double tap and hold on an email attachment on your phone
and have it open in DropBox, which will place it there. You can also
use the plus button in the app to put photos or videos into your
DropBox.
Hope this helps and please let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
Aleeha

On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
> downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is
> actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse instructor
> send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it. In
> fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving your
> documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop
> computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t
> know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does
> anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could you
> tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you know,
> I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my iPhone
> 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for school.
> Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages
> document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just curious! I
> will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some
> suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!!


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 01:43:57 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:43:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  Dropbox
References: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS316BCE60174E534755AFC5AF5C10@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 22, 2013 at 8:35:01 PM EST
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse instructor send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it. In fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving your documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could you tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you know, I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my iPhone 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for school. Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just curious! I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 01:57:01 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 20:57:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQ2JDkiLLLmzSj-Q6m7r=DARVY4L6BOHhromt4qBVsF6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAE8_=nQ2JDkiLLLmzSj-Q6m7r=DARVY4L6BOHhromt4qBVsF6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS246492898569EF26BB473F5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Aleeha, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, have you ever edit and 
write papers in your iPhone by using the pages app? And if you did, how does 
it work, and how do you save it in your Dropbox folder in order to continue 
working on it at home? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!
P.S. What is your email adress? Just wondering! Thanks Again!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dropbox

Hi Helga,
     I have used DropBox for a long time and really love it. I have it
on both laptops and all three iOS devices. It is easiest to transfer
information from your computer into your DropBox like you would copy
and paste any other document. Go to Windows Explorer with Windows E,
find the file you need, hit Control C, go to your Desktop with Windows
M, find Dropbox, press enter, then paste the file into the folder of
your choice in that DropBox. It will then go to your phone and whoever
you have shared the folder with.
     You can use the DropBox site, which is a bit confusing, to share
one of your folders with someone. If you want help with that, email me
off list and I can help.
     You can double tap and hold on an email attachment on your phone
and have it open in DropBox, which will place it there. You can also
use the plus button in the app to put photos or videos into your
DropBox.
Hope this helps and please let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
Aleeha

On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
> downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is
> actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse 
> instructor
> send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it. 
> In
> fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving 
> your
> documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop
> computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t
> know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does
> anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could 
> you
> tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you 
> know,
> I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my iPhone
> 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for 
> school.
> Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages
> document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just curious! 
> I
> will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some
> suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 02:02:15 2013
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:02:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS246492898569EF26BB473F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAE8_=nQ2JDkiLLLmzSj-Q6m7r=DARVY4L6BOHhromt4qBVsF6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS246492898569EF26BB473F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAE8_=nQaqBw33=LRLFLq7cV739F0+G+pMgh43zWoNRe=1CcshA@mail.gmail.com>

I have used Pages, but never to upload to DropBox. My email is
blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
Thanks,
Aleeha

On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Aleeha, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, have you ever edit and
> write papers in your iPhone by using the pages app? And if you did, how does
>
> it work, and how do you save it in your Dropbox folder in order to continue
>
> working on it at home? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!
> P.S. What is your email adress? Just wondering! Thanks Again!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aleeha Dudley
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:43 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dropbox
>
> Hi Helga,
>      I have used DropBox for a long time and really love it. I have it
> on both laptops and all three iOS devices. It is easiest to transfer
> information from your computer into your DropBox like you would copy
> and paste any other document. Go to Windows Explorer with Windows E,
> find the file you need, hit Control C, go to your Desktop with Windows
> M, find Dropbox, press enter, then paste the file into the folder of
> your choice in that DropBox. It will then go to your phone and whoever
> you have shared the folder with.
>      You can use the DropBox site, which is a bit confusing, to share
> one of your folders with someone. If you want help with that, email me
> off list and I can help.
>      You can double tap and hold on an email attachment on your phone
> and have it open in DropBox, which will place it there. You can also
> use the plus button in the app to put photos or videos into your
> DropBox.
> Hope this helps and please let me know if you have any questions.
> Best,
> Aleeha
>
> On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>> downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is
>> actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse
>> instructor
>> send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it.
>>
>> In
>> fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving
>> your
>> documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop
>> computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t
>> know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does
>> anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could
>> you
>> tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you
>> know,
>> I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my
>> iPhone
>> 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for
>> school.
>> Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages
>> document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just curious!
>>
>> I
>> will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some
>> suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 02:09:42 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:09:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAE8_=nQaqBw33=LRLFLq7cV739F0+G+pMgh43zWoNRe=1CcshA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS20E077D45137550A381B9CF5C10@phx.gbl><CAE8_=nQ2JDkiLLLmzSj-Q6m7r=DARVY4L6BOHhromt4qBVsF6w@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS246492898569EF26BB473F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAE8_=nQaqBw33=LRLFLq7cV739F0+G+pMgh43zWoNRe=1CcshA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS614D2EDAB283AF39D4DFEF5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Aleeha, do you know anybody who has uploaded the documets they have 
wwritten to Dropbox? I was just wondering, since this is my first time using 
pages as well! Thanks and God bless!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Aleeha Dudley
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 9:02 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dropbox

I have used Pages, but never to upload to DropBox. My email is
blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
Thanks,
Aleeha

On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Aleeha, this is helga. I just wanted to ask you, have you ever edit and
> write papers in your iPhone by using the pages app? And if you did, how 
> does
>
> it work, and how do you save it in your Dropbox folder in order to 
> continue
>
> working on it at home? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!
> P.S. What is your email adress? Just wondering! Thanks Again!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aleeha Dudley
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:43 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dropbox
>
> Hi Helga,
>      I have used DropBox for a long time and really love it. I have it
> on both laptops and all three iOS devices. It is easiest to transfer
> information from your computer into your DropBox like you would copy
> and paste any other document. Go to Windows Explorer with Windows E,
> find the file you need, hit Control C, go to your Desktop with Windows
> M, find Dropbox, press enter, then paste the file into the folder of
> your choice in that DropBox. It will then go to your phone and whoever
> you have shared the folder with.
>      You can use the DropBox site, which is a bit confusing, to share
> one of your folders with someone. If you want help with that, email me
> off list and I can help.
>      You can double tap and hold on an email attachment on your phone
> and have it open in DropBox, which will place it there. You can also
> use the plus button in the app to put photos or videos into your
> DropBox.
> Hope this helps and please let me know if you have any questions.
> Best,
> Aleeha
>
> On 12/22/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to tell you that I
>> downloaded the Dropbox app into my iPhone 5, three days ago, and this is
>> actually my first time using it! Actually,  one of my Lighthouse
>> instructor
>> send me a link of Dropbox inviting me to be part of it since she uses it.
>>
>> In
>> fact, she told me that is actually very beneficial for school in saving
>> your
>> documets and many other things. And after I put Dropbox in my laptop
>> computer, I downloaded the Dropbox app to my iPhone 5. But I really don’t
>> know how to use it even though they gave me a Getting started guide. Does
>> anybody here have Dropbox and knows how to use it? And if you do, Could
>> you
>> tell me what are the steps? I’m actually very confuse! Just to let you
>> know,
>> I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app and download it into my
>> iPhone
>> 5, in order to be able to edit and write papers and assignments for
>> school.
>> Also, I just wanted to ask you, how do you save a microsoft word or pages
>> document that you start working on into your Dropbox folder? Just 
>> curious!
>>
>> I
>> will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some
>> suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Mon Dec 23 02:12:29 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:12:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
In-Reply-To: <5760D606-C37D-4C48-A097-8DDE9C36DA0D@gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>
	<CAL57mpF-OotGARWfFOvEAwq4yugTGxUL_0Q1J=HbRnz8x0K1Pg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5760D606-C37D-4C48-A097-8DDE9C36DA0D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F34BA0A-F97A-46A5-9B74-19A0DA5C9CAC@aol.com>

Hi Amanda
This is important, do you have an Omni or an older model. 
If it is 6.5 you. Will not lose everything by doing a factory reset as this other member is suggesting. 
Ferthermore I've had this happiness give the PACmate a cold reset and charg it. It is a dead battery that's all.
Hope this helps.
Bridget

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ok.  I hate to make you do this, but you may have to hard reset the PacMate.  This will delete everything off of it, so try to back up everything you need.  To hard reset the PacMate, stick a pin or a stylus (like one you would use with a braille slate) into the hole on the underside of the device.  It kind of looks like a screw.  There's a button in there.  Press it lightly with the tip of the stylus or pin and hold for 15 seconds.  Again, it's going to erase everything on the machine.  Let me know if that helps.
> 
> Ryan
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That didn't work.
>> Amanda
>> 
>>> On 12/22/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Amanda,
>>> 
>>> Try warm reset ting it.  Rock the power switch as if your are turning it on
>>> and hold it for about 15 seconds.  You'll have to reset all your custom
>>> settings, but that should fix the problem.  Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Ryan
>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
>>>> battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Amanda
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Helga,
>>>>> 
>>>>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>>>>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop.
>>>>> The
>>>>> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is
>>>>> bigger
>>>>> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
>>>>> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find
>>>>> it
>>>>> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared
>>>>> to
>>>>> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The
>>>>> only
>>>>> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
>>>>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much
>>>>> more
>>>>> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
>>>>> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
>>>>> iPad.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app
>>>>> available
>>>>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples
>>>>> pages
>>>>> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
>>>>> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with
>>>>> others
>>>>> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you
>>>>> are
>>>>> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older
>>>>> model
>>>>> it is $9.99.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>>>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>>>> paths
>>>>> straight."
>>>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
>>>>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>>>>>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>>>>>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to
>>>>>> ask
>>>>>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and
>>>>>> God
>>>>>> bless!! :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Mon Dec 23 02:21:16 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:21:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pacmate no battery present message
In-Reply-To: <2F34BA0A-F97A-46A5-9B74-19A0DA5C9CAC@aol.com>
References: <CAL57mpFLMtMianNwYKmpNqsMThrCvV6KPE5VnZxDbREzUqUdDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A28D013-9595-400A-A2BF-FB496A59A073@gmail.com>
	<CAL57mpF-OotGARWfFOvEAwq4yugTGxUL_0Q1J=HbRnz8x0K1Pg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5760D606-C37D-4C48-A097-8DDE9C36DA0D@gmail.com>
	<2F34BA0A-F97A-46A5-9B74-19A0DA5C9CAC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <83E38170-8E53-4D32-BB47-5783DF0F799C@aol.com>

Hi Amanda. 
Sorry for the typos 
Another thing I forgot your PACmate will act like it had a normal reset when it is charged
Because it is likely it is just dead charge it and at some point it will turn on and reset. 
It will eventually tell you it had a very low percent like 2 or 3. 
How old is this PACmate? 
Have you ever had to replace the ac adapter? 
If nothing works with charges and resets that might be the next step. 
I would call Freedom Scientific and see what they think. 
That is highly unlikely. A charge and a recent is usually all it takes.
Best,
Bridget 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Amanda
> This is important, do you have an Omni or an older model. 
> If it is 6.5 you. Will not lose everything by doing a factory reset as this other member is suggesting. 
> Ferthermore I've had this happiness give the PACmate a cold reset and charg it. It is a dead battery that's all.
> Hope this helps.
> Bridget
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Ok.  I hate to make you do this, but you may have to hard reset the PacMate.  This will delete everything off of it, so try to back up everything you need.  To hard reset the PacMate, stick a pin or a stylus (like one you would use with a braille slate) into the hole on the underside of the device.  It kind of looks like a screw.  There's a button in there.  Press it lightly with the tip of the stylus or pin and hold for 15 seconds.  Again, it's going to erase everything on the machine.  Let me know if that helps.
>> 
>> Ryan
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 3:22 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That didn't work.
>>> Amanda
>>> 
>>>> On 12/22/13, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Amanda,
>>>> 
>>>> Try warm reset ting it.  Rock the power switch as if your are turning it on
>>>> and hold it for about 15 seconds.  You'll have to reset all your custom
>>>> settings, but that should fix the problem.  Hope this helps.
>>>> 
>>>> Ryan
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Amanda Cape <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> My pacmate is not showing the status of the battery and only says no
>>>>> battery present or battery status unknown. How do I fix this?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Amanda
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/22/13, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Helga,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in
>>>>>> purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is
>>>>>> bigger
>>>>>> and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to
>>>>>> someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons.
>>>>>> However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for
>>>>>> classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the
>>>>>> iPad.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples
>>>>>> pages
>>>>>> app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app
>>>>>> enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older
>>>>>> model
>>>>>> it is $9.99.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
>>>>>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your
>>>>>> paths
>>>>>> straight."
>>>>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber
>>>>>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for
>>>>>>> school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for
>>>>>>> school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to
>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>> you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really
>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and
>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>> bless!! :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 02:23:11 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 21:23:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Questions Regarding the iPad
In-Reply-To: <BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU403-EAS3296A510ACFFEACED10311BF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<AF77D062-3904-4312-A241-9DFE09FF0D4F@gmail.com>
	<BLU402-EAS4154E23B74601AA56CA6213F5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A1E7A3C4-D464-4958-9AC1-46C3ADB11ECB@gmail.com>

Pages will work with Microsoft word documents as I said in my previous email. The Microsoft office app, however, is inaccessible with VoiceOver.

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey!! Chris, this is Helga. Thanks for the suggestions regarding the disadvantages of an iPad, and the advantages of buying an iPod touch for school and for many other things. I just wanted to tell you that I have an iPhone 5, and I don't really own an iPhone 5s is because my contract is not over yet! But I would really like to have a IOS device where I could edit and write papers for school. I just wanted to ask you, does the iPod touch has a Microsoft word included and it comes for for free? Just curious! And if it does, that will be a beneficial device for school! I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 12:44 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Helga,
>> 
>> To answer your first question, I don't think there is any point in purchasing an iPad when you already are using an iPhone and a laptop. The chief difference between an iPad and an iPhone is that the iPad is bigger and consequently has a bigger screen. This may be of some importance to someone with low vision, but I have a totally blind person do not find it important. In fact, I found the iPads size to be a drawback when compared to the much more portable iPhone when I was using an iPad for school. The only reason you might want another device for school is for memory reasons. However, you could just as easily purchase an iPod touch which is much more portable but has the memory you need to store the documents you need for classes. This is what I chose to do after finding that I didn't like the iPad.
>> 
>> To answer your second question, there is a Microsoft office app available for iOS. However, this app is inaccessible. I would recommend apples pages app for wordprocessing on your iPhone or another iOS device. This app enables you to open, save and edit files, as well as share them with others in a variety of different file formats including Microsoft word. If you are using an iPhone 5C or 5S, this app is free. If you are using an older model it is $9.99.
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. Good morning! I just wanted to tell you that I'm currently using an iPhone and a laptop that have JAWS install in it for school. What I wanted to ask you is, do you think it would it be worth it to buy an iPad for school even though I use an iPhone and a Laptop for school and for many other things? Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, does the iPad and iPhone have Microsoft word int it, so that I could write my papers and assignments? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :) 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 03:47:12 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 22:47:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <52b3fb0e.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf18@mx.google.com>
References: <52b3fb0e.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf18@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6254B99347B1439186B11C1A12CAEFA0@OwnerPC>

I read the secret garden in audio, great classic book. I did not know  that 
the Giver was in Braille. Good to know. I may read it through nls though if 
its brailled, as I don't want to purchase. I'm hoping to find a handful of 
print braille books so I can read to my new niece and nephew as well as my 
cousins.
They will want to look at pictures. I've heard great things about seedlings, 
although have not bought from them in years, as I'm an adult now.

I hope their catalog is online or at least get a catalog free of charge.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 3:08 AM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books


I read the Secret Garden a long time ago, read the Giver last
year in class, and read all Narnia serries a few years ago.


----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:30:38 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books

Hi Ashley.  Email me offlist at louvins at gmail.com.  I have a
bunch of
young adult/children's books available for purchase.  I got most
of
them from seedlings braille books for children.  I just have to
find
them all.  I have books like The Secret Garden, Hoot, A Wrinkle
in
Time, The Giver, The Great Gilly Hopkins, Adam of The Road, and
the
complete Chronicles of Narnia series.  Seedlings makes very high
quality books.

On 12/20/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
Hi all,

I?�m looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
purchase or
borrowing.
I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to
others as part of
community service.

So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
collection.  I?�m
wondering if APH has other books other than textbooks.

Thanks.
Ashley
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
nabs-l:

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il.com


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for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com








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From louvins at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 04:04:16 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 22:04:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <6254B99347B1439186B11C1A12CAEFA0@OwnerPC>
References: <52b3fb0e.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf18@mx.google.com>
	<6254B99347B1439186B11C1A12CAEFA0@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9uVVxAbm2u4LPBgnMJH1DLUEvDhvtp6_PJGJu7SaBJc4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley.  They do have a catalog online.  The site is
www.seedlings.org.  Also, you can get a catalog for free by calling
them at 18007778552.  Good luck.

On 12/22/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I read the secret garden in audio, great classic book. I did not know  that
>
> the Giver was in Braille. Good to know. I may read it through nls though if
>
> its brailled, as I don't want to purchase. I'm hoping to find a handful of
> print braille books so I can read to my new niece and nephew as well as my
> cousins.
> They will want to look at pictures. I've heard great things about seedlings,
>
> although have not bought from them in years, as I'm an adult now.
>
> I hope their catalog is online or at least get a catalog free of charge.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marissa
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 3:08 AM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>
>
> I read the Secret Garden a long time ago, read the Giver last
> year in class, and read all Narnia serries a few years ago.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:30:38 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>
> Hi Ashley.  Email me offlist at louvins at gmail.com.  I have a
> bunch of
> young adult/children's books available for purchase.  I got most
> of
> them from seedlings braille books for children.  I just have to
> find
> them all.  I have books like The Secret Garden, Hoot, A Wrinkle
> in
> Time, The Giver, The Great Gilly Hopkins, Adam of The Road, and
> the
> complete Chronicles of Narnia series.  Seedlings makes very high
> quality books.
>
> On 12/20/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I?셫 looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
> purchase or
> borrowing.
> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to
> others as part of
> community service.
>
> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
> collection.  I?셫
> wondering if APH has other books other than textbooks.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
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> info for
> nabs-l:
>
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> il.com
>
>
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> for nabs-l:
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> ife7%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
>
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 04:28:04 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:28:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E2C99D6BC12E4CC2BD24DBA4D7283A4C@OwnerPC>

Kerri,
Wow, a lot of questions. I assume you live fairly close to the school. Is 
your mom going to take you to school and then you meet her later on, and she 
bring you home? I am guessing you do not have other transportation to school 
based on other messages you sent. It sounds like you live in an area with 
not much public transit.

I'd advise you to try and get involved in clubs after class. Its harder as a 
commuter student. But do try and plan to stay after classes to do things 
like this because you will feel good about getting involved in college life 
and also hopefully make some friends.

Anyway, notetaking issues.
It’s a personal preference. I agree with others that a braille notetaker is 
an excellent idea.
As you pointed out, it  gives you instant access to your notes. I loved the 
convenience of taking notes silently and listening to the professor; with a 
standard laptop or netbook, I'd have to listen to jaws and the professor. 
This is very difficult for me to do. If you are a proficient braille reader, 
the braille notetakers with a braille display give you a portable and 
efficient way to write notes. In fact, I hardly use speech. I have an older 
braille note, but it still works, so I used it till I graduated school, even 
though the apex came out the end of my college experience.

So, I suggest a notetaker, which ever one suits you. Also, rehab should pay 
for this. its related to your vr goal after all.

The pacmate is no longer made?
I doubt that; I thought they made some version of the pacmate still.

For books, as others said, you can get electronic texts from publishers. We 
are totally opposite though! I learn best with learning ally books since its 
like a reader sitting with me to read. I can understand it so much better. 
Yes, some readers suck, and you do have to get used to various voices. But 
to me, it is not as bad as listening to synthesized speech; that to me puts 
me to sleep.
Anyway, electronic texts is fine; just ask your ds office for text formats 
like Word or RTF though.
I agree with Helga. PDFS are a nightmare because when I tried to read the 
electronic pdf files from a publisher, the words were stuck together in 
several places, and it was very difficult to understand and focus on 
reading. Other pdfs kept saying "graphic" in the middle of text being read. 
I use jaws.

So use electronic text if you want. But be aware of some format limitations. 
I think some publishers offer electronic books to the general market. These 
ebooks can be rented or bought.
Some ebooks are accessible; I believe Course smart's books are.

You can receive your texts as an accomodation from your ds office. You will 
be asked to buy the books and keep the receit.
Do this at the bookstore like everyone else or buy a book from amazon. Some 
general books for english classes such as novels can be bought from your 
standard bookstore; such as barnes and noble.

Once you provide the ds office proof of purchase with receits, they should 
provide accessible electronic texts to you.
Services greatly vary among ds offices. Some will be timely in getting 
books, others will not. Get them your book lists as soon as possible so they 
will have time to order the electronic texts. Some ds offices will scan 
books and place the books on a disk or storage drive for you.

For rehab finance, this is something you should discuss with your counselor.
State rules vary. But in general I'd say, no, they will not pay.
Kerri, you have to be a full time student for rehab to finance it, and you 
are not. Twelve credits is full time.
Second, your major has to be related to your vr goal, and it does not sound 
like you know what you want to do.
Third, if you are under 18, your parent's income is factored into the 
financial equation.
Vr simply does not pay for anyone to go to school. If your family can pay, 
they will be looked to to pay.
Most parents pay for their kids to attend school, or if they cannot afford 
it, students find their own way.
Even if your are over 18, your other income is considered. If you receive 
SSI from the government, you are likely eligible for rehab to pay.
But if you have income from other sources such as inherritance or 
investments from family, they will not.
Fourth, rehab may be unwilling to pay because  you tried college before. If 
you were on academic probation and / or flunked out, this is a red flag. I 
have know idea why you dropped out, it may not be for grades, but rehab may 
consider that.

I suggest you apply for financial aid and scholarships and grants if you 
need finance help.
Rehab will not pay for a part time degree.

Ashley



-----Original Message----- 
From: Kerri Kosten
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Everyone:

Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
writing, and a University Library course which is library research
which is a class that is required for my major.
I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
working out.
I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some questions.
First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
make it anymore!
Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
still widely used even though they are overpriced?
The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
the same time.
How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
electronic copies of the books.
What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
idea how to justify that type of money.
When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
myself.
I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
totally different/unrelated?
Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
Kerri

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 04:29:11 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:29:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9uVuPFS+qyG+X-oF9_6ChM5pOrC+_xQJ9Zi+7kjHERmZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6GWxwD_LhajSpe91MBh+Qwr83QU0zOLmuHew3p=DiqNRsshw@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS755F225809480D51B1E81F5C40@phx.gbl><CAF=_avc34tKrz2ERn5LLOdVreBkndNp=qy4x332=qxDVALB_vA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9uVuPFS+qyG+X-oF9_6ChM5pOrC+_xQJ9Zi+7kjHERmZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D81406E2D454D65BC0B8A982429FB0B@OwnerPC>

Hi,
great advice,
if the ds office can provide MS word files of books, this is the best format 
to use. You can easily use the find command to look for text then.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Hendrickson
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 4:13 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Kerri.  I would also recommend applying for financial aide.  This
is how I was able to get through my associates degree as far as cost
is concerned.  Asking your rehab services for a notetaker to help you
in class is perfectly acceptible.  I would highly recommend trying to
get a braille sense u2 from hims-inc.  As far as textbooks, you could
purchase the books and see if disability support services could scan
the book and give it to you in MSWORD format.  This is what my school
did for me, and I could read the books with my jaws just fine.  Don't
be worried about asking for what you need to help you get your degree.
Good luck.

On 12/20/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
> It depends on your school but here at ASU the disabled student services
> scans the books into electronic format.
>
> I have been out of school for over 15 years and applied for rehab and they
> are paying for my schooling. some states have very long wait lists. I was
> albe to get on in about 3 months. They purchased a portable cctv for me.
>
> You do have to have the goal of employment form the school in order for
> rehab to pay for
>
> Good luck
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Helga Schreiber <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kerri, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to tell you that for
>> paying for your classes, why don't you apply for Financial Aid. I apply
>> every year for it in order for them to pay my classes. In fact, they
>> actually pay my classes that I'm going to be taking next semester! And as
>> for textbooks, I use Learning Ally and I try to get my books in Braille,
>> or
>> get them in Microsoft Word format in order perhaps to put them in
>> Braille!
>> But since you don't like Learning Ally, maybe you can get your books in
>> Braille, or as a Microsoft Word format. I don't really like my books in
>> PDF
>> format, but maybe you do. I don't really recommend it because sometimes
>> the
>> words come attach together, and it's very hard to understand, and very
>> messy. Hope this helps! Thanks for listening to me! God bless!! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kerri Kosten
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 6:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hi Everyone:
>>
>> Well, after taking a few years off, I have decided to take the plunge.
>> I have decided to go back to West Virginia University. I registered
>> for three classes: Communications 122 which is Communication in
>> Contemporary Society, English 111 which is Introduction To Creative
>> writing, and a University Library course which is library research
>> which is a class that is required for my major.
>> I previously attended WVU from 2007-2009 but ended up dropping out
>> because I didn't have any blindness skills and things just weren't
>> working out.
>> I have been debating for a long time now whether to go back to school,
>> but I need to get back to a routine and since jobs are hard to find
>> and I never finished my degree I figured going to school would be my
>> best option currently. I figured going back to school would give me
>> something to do five days a week, it would get me out of the house, I
>> could learn things, and could work on finishing my degree. I haven't
>> been on campus yet, but my mother and everyone says everything is
>> right near each other and once I get to the student union I should
>> have no problem walking to my classes. I could have lunch in the
>> student union before class, then walk to my classes, then either go
>> back to the student union or go home. Next to the student union there
>> is even a Starbucks where coffee and such can be gotten. So, for all
>> these reasons I figured school would be my best current option.
>> Being that I have not been in school for a few years, I had some
>> questions.
>> First, how do you all handle the whole taking notes thing? I have a
>> very very old Pacmate that I received back in 2007, and I guess I
>> could dig it up and make it work but you all know the Pacmate is a
>> very very old very outdated notetaker that is so old they don't even
>> make it anymore!
>> Do you all primarily use notetakers such as the Braille Note or
>> Braille Sense for notetaking or is there a newer, better way?
>> Do any of you do the whole notetaker as braille display with an Ipad?
>> What is the advantage of this over just using the plain notetaker?
>> How do I justify to Rehab (even if it's for next semester) to get me a
>> new notetaker? Is there a better thing out now or are the notetakers
>> still widely used even though they are overpriced?
>> The one thing I do like about a notetaker is everything is right there
>> and I can type and then check my notes on a braille display. If I am
>> going to ask Rehab for something new, I definitely want some sort of
>> braille display so I don't have to rely on my hearing to try to listen
>> to the professor and simultaneously try to listen to Jaws or speech at
>> the same time.
>> How do you all get textbooks in accessible formats?
>> I hate RFBD/Learning Ally. It puts me to sleep so I would do best with
>> electronic copies of the books.
>> What is the current way of going about getting books electronically?
>> Finally, when I went to school before, I didn't really pay attention
>> to things such as cost. After I registered today, I looked at my bill.
>> For three classes, it is about $2,000. My mother is going to help me
>> pay, but she also wants me to see if Rehab can help.
>> How do I justify to rehab to help me pay for school? I'm having
>> trouble because while I want to major in journalism, and I did well in
>> my journalism and english classes when I attended WVU before, I have
>> no idea whether I will be able to really realistically get a job after
>> college. The amount of $2,000 really shocked me, and I guess now I am
>> feeling extremely guilty because I'm doing this school thing because
>> it seems my best option for turning my life around. However, I have no
>> idea how to justify that type of money.
>> When I asked Rehab to send me to training, that was a little different
>> because I desperately needed training and really couldn't go further
>> without it. Training was my only option at that time for bettering
>> myself.
>> I feel extremely guilty about the cost. Is it like training? Does
>> Rehab have to help even if I don't necessarily get a job right away or
>> even if I get a degree in journalism and get a job in something
>> totally different/unrelated?
>> Thanks, and if I have any other questions I'll ask!
>> Kerri
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/
>> helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 04:40:39 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:40:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <85B6DB03A64B4ECDB9A143C3E4D07033@OwnerPC>

Hi,
this depends on the college. Some ds offices scan texts.
In terms of getting files from publishers, this depends on the ds office 
management; some are very slow. I had experiences where they did not get 
texts to me in time for classes. Other times, ds submits the request timely, 
but the publishers are slow. some refuse to give files out, which is why we 
need the teach act.

So it varies. I highly suggest getting your own private membership to 
learning ally and ordering books yourself, this eliminates the issue with ds 
unreliability! If you want dasy text files, get bookshare membership. I hear 
its free to students. Again, your own bookshare account eliminates the need 
to go to ds office.

Yes, you can scan your books, but I don't recommend it because you will have 
too many errors and no one to edit it not to mention that
the scanners butcher up  the  tables and charts and you cannot always tell 
in the scanned copy where the table ends.

So, I suggest buying your own memberships if you can afford it to ensure you 
get texts.
Even if ds gets you pdfs, I can gaurantee you they will not always  be 
readable because the words will be jumbled together.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: lizzy
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 2:15 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi all,
I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
Thanks,
Lizzy

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 04:41:12 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:41:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What 
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really 
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!! 
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

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From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Mon Dec 23 04:50:58 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:50:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <A23DFAD7-0E0B-444C-91CD-A7BFF2ADF88D@aol.com>

Hi Ashly and all, 
This is a little off topic but still. 
The PACmate Omni is still being made. 
Though even though I am a Freedom fan they are not doing much with it right now.
The new thing is the focus des plays but, if I know anything about Freedom Scientific they will come up with something. 
I just want to set the record clear the PACmate Omni is still on the market. 
The older 4.1 is not it is 6.5 that's it. 
So if you use a PACmate check what version you have. 
Does it say Omni on it? 
When you reset it does it say jaws for pocket PC 6.5?
Hope this helps
Bridget 

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
> 
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!! :-) from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>> 
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 04:53:10 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 23:53:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Apples Pages App
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS16747DB8AE8BDFDE28E2F6F5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do anyone here has ever edit or write papers in the Apples pages app? Just curious! And if you did, how does it work, and how do yu save file document that you have start working on in your iPhone, in order to continue working on it at home? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this, since I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app. Thanks and God bless!! 
-------------- next part --------------
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 05:20:55 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 00:20:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I 
actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have 
Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I 
use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have 
pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm 
actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In 
fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word 
format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word 
format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This 
is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my 
DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I 
really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very 
messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture 
or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass 
through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't 
know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated 
about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS 
office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate 
with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and 
sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't 
know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book 
in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the 
book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser. 
And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign 
chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks 
for listening to me! God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 05:29:06 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 00:29:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Helga,
It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than as 
text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan it 
with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word document 
coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR program will 
scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by JAWS and will not 
be a picture.
I hope this helps,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
for listening to me! God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 05:46:52 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 00:46:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless! :)  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
> 
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>> 
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 06:09:03 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 01:09:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Helga,
I have scanned books on my own, especially when I was in high school and my 
first semester of college, but it is rather time-consuming. I have not found 
a way to do more than one page at one time, but I did visit a college campus 
who had a good DS office, and they had a very nice scanner that fed the 
pages and could scan a book in around 45 minutes. I always wanted a scanner 
like that, but they cost a lot from what the DS office there told me. The 
only thing I didn't like about it was that they had to cut the binding off 
the book so the scanner could feed pages through quickly, since it was not a 
scanner that had the glass top where you have to place and hold the book. It 
looked more like a copier that fed pages in and then sent them back out 
again after scanning them.
I think that if you are going to scan the books yourself, it is good to have 
a scanner that scans quickly. I used to have an HP scanner in the past that 
scanned well but was very slow, and it took so long to scan the book. I now 
have a scanner that scans within a few seconds, so I found that it was 
helpful, because it scanned each page more quickly than the other scanner 
did. Also, I used to scan each chapter as I got to it in the class or right 
before when I knew it was coming up. This was easier for me, because I 
didn't have to do the book all at once, so I would just go chapter by 
chapter. Also, if the professor decided to skip a chapter at the last 
minute, I would not have put in the extra work just to find out that we 
would not have to read the chapter. I would also place a sticky note or 
index card or even a folded up sheet of paper in the book where I left off 
so that I would know where I stopped scanning and could turn back to it 
quickly. I have even folded down the corner of the page at the spot where I 
left off at times. As for knowing which way the book was facing, I would 
open the book and scan the first few pages of it and then go back and read 
them, and if they were the title pages and table of contents like would 
normally be found at the beginning of a book, I would know that I had the 
book open from the front. If it looked like a glosary or appendices or 
things that would ordinarily be in the back of a book, I would figure out 
that I was scanning from the back, and I would know to turn the book over to 
the front side. Once you know which side is the front, you can mark it with 
a sticky note or dot or something that you can mark it with to know that it 
is the front from then on. You could also have a sighted classmate or 
someone you know to find the first page for you that you would need, such as 
page 1 of chapter one, and have them show you which way the book should be 
facing so you can mark it.
As far as OpenBook, it is actually an OCR program, so it can convert the 
scanned image into text that can be read instead of it being a picture or 
graphic.
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan 
my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally 
blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how 
can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be 
a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate 
it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God 
bless! :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" 
> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than 
> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan 
> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word 
> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR 
> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by 
> JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to 
> have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. 
> This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's 
> very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, 
> and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I 
> don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille 
> Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! 
> Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 07:17:34 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 02:17:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Misty, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you know where I could 
buy or borrow  this scanner that scans pages of abook quickly? Also, do I 
have to cut the binding off my books in order to scan them in Open Book? 
Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, What would happen if your book 
has a lot of pictures, specially more in one chapter than others? What would 
you do regarding that? Just wondering. I actually talked to my Biollogy 
Professor in order to get ready for his class that I'm going to be taking 
next semester, and he told me that one chapter has a lot of pictures than 
others. And they are actually assign chapters that we need to read in order 
to accomplish quizzes, homeworks assignments, and tests. I will really 
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks 
and God bless!
P.S. By the way, what College do you attend, and what State do you live in? 
Just curious! And also do you remember the college name where you went to 
visit in order to help you with your book? just curious! You don't have to 
answer if you don't want to ok? Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Helga,
I have scanned books on my own, especially when I was in high school and my
first semester of college, but it is rather time-consuming. I have not found
a way to do more than one page at one time, but I did visit a college campus
who had a good DS office, and they had a very nice scanner that fed the
pages and could scan a book in around 45 minutes. I always wanted a scanner
like that, but they cost a lot from what the DS office there told me. The
only thing I didn't like about it was that they had to cut the binding off
the book so the scanner could feed pages through quickly, since it was not a
scanner that had the glass top where you have to place and hold the book. It
looked more like a copier that fed pages in and then sent them back out
again after scanning them.
I think that if you are going to scan the books yourself, it is good to have
a scanner that scans quickly. I used to have an HP scanner in the past that
scanned well but was very slow, and it took so long to scan the book. I now
have a scanner that scans within a few seconds, so I found that it was
helpful, because it scanned each page more quickly than the other scanner
did. Also, I used to scan each chapter as I got to it in the class or right
before when I knew it was coming up. This was easier for me, because I
didn't have to do the book all at once, so I would just go chapter by
chapter. Also, if the professor decided to skip a chapter at the last
minute, I would not have put in the extra work just to find out that we
would not have to read the chapter. I would also place a sticky note or
index card or even a folded up sheet of paper in the book where I left off
so that I would know where I stopped scanning and could turn back to it
quickly. I have even folded down the corner of the page at the spot where I
left off at times. As for knowing which way the book was facing, I would
open the book and scan the first few pages of it and then go back and read
them, and if they were the title pages and table of contents like would
normally be found at the beginning of a book, I would know that I had the
book open from the front. If it looked like a glosary or appendices or
things that would ordinarily be in the back of a book, I would figure out
that I was scanning from the back, and I would know to turn the book over to
the front side. Once you know which side is the front, you can mark it with
a sticky note or dot or something that you can mark it with to know that it
is the front from then on. You could also have a sighted classmate or
someone you know to find the first page for you that you would need, such as
page 1 of chapter one, and have them show you which way the book should be
facing so you can mark it.
As far as OpenBook, it is actually an OCR program, so it can convert the
scanned image into text that can be read instead of it being a picture or
graphic.
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan
my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally
blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how
can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be
a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate
it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
bless! :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" 
> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than 
> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan 
> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word 
> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR 
> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by 
> JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to 
> have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. 
> This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's 
> very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, 
> and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I 
> don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille 
> Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! 
> Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 13:52:41 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 13:52:41 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Helga,
My name is Sandra Gayer. I'm a Soprano Singer and I teach Braille
Music and Voice. I use a Cano Lied 210 which takes from 7 to 10
seconds per page. (That includes the scan and the gap between scans).

Have a wonderful Christmas!
Sandra.

On 12/23/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Misty, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you know where I could
>
> buy or borrow  this scanner that scans pages of abook quickly? Also, do I
> have to cut the binding off my books in order to scan them in Open Book?
> Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, What would happen if your book
>
> has a lot of pictures, specially more in one chapter than others? What would
>
> you do regarding that? Just wondering. I actually talked to my Biollogy
> Professor in order to get ready for his class that I'm going to be taking
> next semester, and he told me that one chapter has a lot of pictures than
> others. And they are actually assign chapters that we need to read in order
>
> to accomplish quizzes, homeworks assignments, and tests. I will really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks
>
> and God bless!
> P.S. By the way, what College do you attend, and what State do you live in?
>
> Just curious! And also do you remember the college name where you went to
> visit in order to help you with your book? just curious! You don't have to
> answer if you don't want to ok? Thanks again! ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Misty Dawn Bradley
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Helga,
> I have scanned books on my own, especially when I was in high school and my
> first semester of college, but it is rather time-consuming. I have not
> found
> a way to do more than one page at one time, but I did visit a college
> campus
> who had a good DS office, and they had a very nice scanner that fed the
> pages and could scan a book in around 45 minutes. I always wanted a scanner
> like that, but they cost a lot from what the DS office there told me. The
> only thing I didn't like about it was that they had to cut the binding off
> the book so the scanner could feed pages through quickly, since it was not
> a
> scanner that had the glass top where you have to place and hold the book.
> It
> looked more like a copier that fed pages in and then sent them back out
> again after scanning them.
> I think that if you are going to scan the books yourself, it is good to
> have
> a scanner that scans quickly. I used to have an HP scanner in the past that
> scanned well but was very slow, and it took so long to scan the book. I now
> have a scanner that scans within a few seconds, so I found that it was
> helpful, because it scanned each page more quickly than the other scanner
> did. Also, I used to scan each chapter as I got to it in the class or right
> before when I knew it was coming up. This was easier for me, because I
> didn't have to do the book all at once, so I would just go chapter by
> chapter. Also, if the professor decided to skip a chapter at the last
> minute, I would not have put in the extra work just to find out that we
> would not have to read the chapter. I would also place a sticky note or
> index card or even a folded up sheet of paper in the book where I left off
> so that I would know where I stopped scanning and could turn back to it
> quickly. I have even folded down the corner of the page at the spot where I
> left off at times. As for knowing which way the book was facing, I would
> open the book and scan the first few pages of it and then go back and read
> them, and if they were the title pages and table of contents like would
> normally be found at the beginning of a book, I would know that I had the
> book open from the front. If it looked like a glosary or appendices or
> things that would ordinarily be in the back of a book, I would figure out
> that I was scanning from the back, and I would know to turn the book over
> to
> the front side. Once you know which side is the front, you can mark it with
> a sticky note or dot or something that you can mark it with to know that it
> is the front from then on. You could also have a sighted classmate or
> someone you know to find the first page for you that you would need, such
> as
> page 1 of chapter one, and have them show you which way the book should be
> facing so you can mark it.
> As far as OpenBook, it is actually an OCR program, so it can convert the
> scanned image into text that can be read instead of it being a picture or
> graphic.
> Hth,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should
> scan
> my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally
> blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how
> can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it
> be
> a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really
> appreciate
> it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
> bless! :)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley"
>> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Helga,
>> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than
>>
>> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical
>> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil,
>>
>> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell
>>
>> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me
>>
>> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into
>> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan
>>
>> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word
>> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR
>> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by
>> JAWS and will not be a picture.
>> I hope this helps,
>> Misty
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
>> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to
>> have
>> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do
>> I
>> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
>> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
>> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
>> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
>> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
>> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture.
>> This
>> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end,
>> my
>> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
>> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's
>> very
>> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a
>> picture
>> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
>> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
>> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
>> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
>> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
>> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English,
>> and
>> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I
>> don't
>> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my
>> book
>> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
>> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille
>> Embosser.
>> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the
>> assign
>> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money!
>> Thanks
>> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
>> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Helga,
>> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
>> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
>> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>>
>> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have
>> a
>>
>> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
>> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
>> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God
>> bless!!
>> :-) from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>>
>>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Lizzy
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 13:59:11 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 08:59:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9uVVxAbm2u4LPBgnMJH1DLUEvDhvtp6_PJGJu7SaBJc4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b3fb0e.ca41420a.775b.ffffaf18@mx.google.com>
	<6254B99347B1439186B11C1A12CAEFA0@OwnerPC>
	<CADUoy9uVVxAbm2u4LPBgnMJH1DLUEvDhvtp6_PJGJu7SaBJc4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fa11b=SQ9orvrmds-voy3Aog41hdR6eJP92iWwAzb711w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

In addition to the option to borrow books through the mail, NLS also
has an online site where you can download brf files for free.  Web
Braille (I believe is combined with BARD now), but just so you know
has braille in addition to audio books.   Bookshare is probably the
site I use the most, and membership is free as long as you're a
student.  National Braille Press is very good, as is Seedlings.  Your
state's library for the blind and/or physically disabled may have some
books you can borrow directly from them too.

On 12/22/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ashley.  They do have a catalog online.  The site is
> www.seedlings.org.  Also, you can get a catalog for free by calling
> them at 18007778552.  Good luck.
>
> On 12/22/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I read the secret garden in audio, great classic book. I did not know
>> that
>>
>> the Giver was in Braille. Good to know. I may read it through nls though
>> if
>>
>> its brailled, as I don't want to purchase. I'm hoping to find a handful of
>> print braille books so I can read to my new niece and nephew as well as my
>> cousins.
>> They will want to look at pictures. I've heard great things about
>> seedlings,
>>
>> although have not bought from them in years, as I'm an adult now.
>>
>> I hope their catalog is online or at least get a catalog free of charge.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: marissa
>> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 3:08 AM
>> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>>
>>
>> I read the Secret Garden a long time ago, read the Giver last
>> year in class, and read all Narnia serries a few years ago.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 00:30:38 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sources of braille books
>>
>> Hi Ashley.  Email me offlist at louvins at gmail.com.  I have a
>> bunch of
>> young adult/children's books available for purchase.  I got most
>> of
>> them from seedlings braille books for children.  I just have to
>> find
>> them all.  I have books like The Secret Garden, Hoot, A Wrinkle
>> in
>> Time, The Giver, The Great Gilly Hopkins, Adam of The Road, and
>> the
>> complete Chronicles of Narnia series.  Seedlings makes very high
>> quality books.
>>
>> On 12/20/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I?셫 looking for other sources  of braille books, either for
>> purchase or
>> borrowing.
>> I might use them for my own reading pleasure or to read to
>> others as part of
>> community service.
>>
>> So what other sources are out there? I know about the NLS
>> collection.  I?셫
>> wondering if APH has other books other than textbooks.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
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>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 14:38:49 2013
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:38:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Apples Pages App
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS16747DB8AE8BDFDE28E2F6F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS16747DB8AE8BDFDE28E2F6F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DE459FE6-A6DB-4F2F-8D7A-D0FDF24F0E60@gmail.com>

Hi there,
I have used the Apple Pages app with my iPad and iPhone. The document automatically saves itself so you can access it on other devices.


-Anjelina
Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do anyone here has ever edit or write papers in the Apples pages app? Just curious! And if you did, how does it work, and how do yu save file document that you have start working on in your iPhone, in order to continue working on it at home? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this, since I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app. Thanks and God bless!!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 15:42:50 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 10:42:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Register Now for the 2014 NABS Winter Seminar
References: <E1Vv6xi-0003SC-9n@host.nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <D888470B-CDFB-4411-9B40-321682115AAB@gmail.com>



Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "National Association of Blind Students" <nabs at nabslink.org>
> Date: December 23, 2013 at 9:58:30 AM EST
> To: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> Subject: Register Now for the 2014 NABS Winter Seminar
> Reply-To: "National Association of Blind Students" <nabs at nabslink.org>
> 
> Greetings Chris!
> 
> The NABS Winter Seminar will be held Monday, January 27, 2014 at the Holiday Inn Capitol Hotel, 550 C St. SW, Washington, D.C. The seminar will run from 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M. and a resource fair of showcasing vendors and services will run from 2:30 P.M. to 4:30 P.M. The cost is just $5 payable at the door. Registration begins at 8:00 A.M. Your registration process will be much easier if you conveniently preregister using the information below.
> 
> We will also host our annual NABS Cafe Social and Auction Monday, January 27, 2014 from 8:00 P.M. to midnight. We will have live music, hors d'oeuvres, a cash bar, and auction with great items to bid on. Tickets will be sold at the Winter Seminar until the doors open for the event for $5 and at the door for $7.
> 
> To let us know you're coming, and give yourself the opportunity to sleep in those few extra precious minutes, please complete the preregistration form. If this e-mail was forwarded to you through a list or a friend, please use the registration form found here instead.
> 
> If you have any questions feel free to contact me. We look forward to seeing you in Washington!
> 
> Yours in Federation spirit,
> Sean Whalen
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> (608) 332-4147
> nabs.president at gmail.com www.nabslink.org
> 
> This message was sent to you by National Association of Blind Students
> c/o National Federation of the Blind
> 200 East Wells Street
> at Jernigan Place
> Baltimore, MD 21230
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> If you no longer wish to receive this newsletter, visit our unsubscribe page.
> 
> To be removed from all National Association of Blind Students mailing lists, visit our opt-out page.
> 
> Please do not reply to this message as this mailbox is not monitored. If you have questions about NABS, please visit our contact page.

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 23 16:10:15 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 11:10:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Apples Pages App
In-Reply-To: <DE459FE6-A6DB-4F2F-8D7A-D0FDF24F0E60@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS16747DB8AE8BDFDE28E2F6F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<DE459FE6-A6DB-4F2F-8D7A-D0FDF24F0E60@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS3851BAAFCC300FC388F483DF5C10@phx.gbl>

Hi Angelina, this is Helga. Good morning! Do you mean I can access the file I save on my iPhone with the pages app into my laptop computer? Just curious. And if it is a way, how can I make it to do that? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could help me, and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 9:39 AM, "Anjelina" <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> I have used the Apple Pages app with my iPad and iPhone. The document automatically saves itself so you can access it on other devices.
> 
> 
> -Anjelina
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do anyone here has ever edit or write papers in the Apples pages app? Just curious! And if you did, how does it work, and how do yu save file document that you have start working on in your iPhone, in order to continue working on it at home? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this, since I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app. Thanks and God bless!!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 17:04:20 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 12:04:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EA298282934E4FCDAF8F76935AA8F6F2@MistyBradleyPC>

Hi Helga,
I currently have an all-in-one scanner, copier, printer. It is a Samsung SCX 
3400, and I bought it at Walmart for about $100. It is a lazor printer too, 
and it seems to scan faster than any of the inkjet all-in-one printer 
scanners have done. I used to have an Epson scanner that was just a scanner, 
but it was rather slow too.
You will not have to cut the book for OpenBook to scan it, since the scanner 
is a flat-bed scanner with a glass that you just put the page of the book on 
it and scan it.
I am in North Carolina, and I am attending Guilford Technical Community 
College. The college I visited that had the nice scanner that was fast was 
the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. I went for one of their 
open houses, because I thought about attending, but I did not get accepted 
there since it is hard to get into.
What I do with pictures is just to scan all of the pages of the chapter 
anyway. Usually, it will scan the picture too, but I can just skip over it 
when I am reading in Microsoft Word, since it just puts the image there. I 
just scan all pages, since I don't know ahead of time which have pictures 
and which don't, and then I just skip over the pictures while reading.
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 2:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you know where I could
buy or borrow  this scanner that scans pages of abook quickly? Also, do I
have to cut the binding off my books in order to scan them in Open Book?
Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, What would happen if your book
has a lot of pictures, specially more in one chapter than others? What would
you do regarding that? Just wondering. I actually talked to my Biollogy
Professor in order to get ready for his class that I'm going to be taking
next semester, and he told me that one chapter has a lot of pictures than
others. And they are actually assign chapters that we need to read in order
to accomplish quizzes, homeworks assignments, and tests. I will really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks
and God bless!
P.S. By the way, what College do you attend, and what State do you live in?
Just curious! And also do you remember the college name where you went to
visit in order to help you with your book? just curious! You don't have to
answer if you don't want to ok? Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Helga,
I have scanned books on my own, especially when I was in high school and my
first semester of college, but it is rather time-consuming. I have not found
a way to do more than one page at one time, but I did visit a college campus
who had a good DS office, and they had a very nice scanner that fed the
pages and could scan a book in around 45 minutes. I always wanted a scanner
like that, but they cost a lot from what the DS office there told me. The
only thing I didn't like about it was that they had to cut the binding off
the book so the scanner could feed pages through quickly, since it was not a
scanner that had the glass top where you have to place and hold the book. It
looked more like a copier that fed pages in and then sent them back out
again after scanning them.
I think that if you are going to scan the books yourself, it is good to have
a scanner that scans quickly. I used to have an HP scanner in the past that
scanned well but was very slow, and it took so long to scan the book. I now
have a scanner that scans within a few seconds, so I found that it was
helpful, because it scanned each page more quickly than the other scanner
did. Also, I used to scan each chapter as I got to it in the class or right
before when I knew it was coming up. This was easier for me, because I
didn't have to do the book all at once, so I would just go chapter by
chapter. Also, if the professor decided to skip a chapter at the last
minute, I would not have put in the extra work just to find out that we
would not have to read the chapter. I would also place a sticky note or
index card or even a folded up sheet of paper in the book where I left off
so that I would know where I stopped scanning and could turn back to it
quickly. I have even folded down the corner of the page at the spot where I
left off at times. As for knowing which way the book was facing, I would
open the book and scan the first few pages of it and then go back and read
them, and if they were the title pages and table of contents like would
normally be found at the beginning of a book, I would know that I had the
book open from the front. If it looked like a glosary or appendices or
things that would ordinarily be in the back of a book, I would figure out
that I was scanning from the back, and I would know to turn the book over to
the front side. Once you know which side is the front, you can mark it with
a sticky note or dot or something that you can mark it with to know that it
is the front from then on. You could also have a sighted classmate or
someone you know to find the first page for you that you would need, such as
page 1 of chapter one, and have them show you which way the book should be
facing so you can mark it.
As far as OpenBook, it is actually an OCR program, so it can convert the
scanned image into text that can be read instead of it being a picture or
graphic.
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan
my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally
blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how
can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be
a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate
it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
bless! :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" 
> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than 
> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan 
> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word 
> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR 
> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by 
> JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to 
> have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. 
> This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's 
> very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, 
> and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I 
> don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille 
> Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! 
> Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>
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>
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From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 23 19:28:19 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 14:28:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Apples Pages App
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS3851BAAFCC300FC388F483DF5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS16747DB8AE8BDFDE28E2F6F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<DE459FE6-A6DB-4F2F-8D7A-D0FDF24F0E60@gmail.com>
	<BLU403-EAS3851BAAFCC300FC388F483DF5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B205D3B6-D4DC-4672-9694-47D76EB46D93@yahoo.com>

Hello Helga, I would suggest saving documents as a DOC file on your phone. Download the DropBox app, and put any files you would like to access later there. Then you can pull up DropBox on you computer. 

Or you can just e-mail the file on the phone to yourself and the e-mail attachment on your computer.  

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Angelina, this is Helga. Good morning! Do you mean I can access the file I save on my iPhone with the pages app into my laptop computer? Just curious. And if it is a way, how can I make it to do that? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it, if you could help me, and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :-)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 23, 2013, at 9:39 AM, "Anjelina" <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> I have used the Apple Pages app with my iPad and iPhone. The document automatically saves itself so you can access it on other devices.
>> 
>> 
>> -Anjelina
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, Do anyone here has ever edit or write papers in the Apples pages app? Just curious! And if you did, how does it work, and how do yu save file document that you have start working on in your iPhone, in order to continue working on it at home? Just wondering. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this, since I’m thinking in buying the Apples pages app. Thanks and God bless!!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 20:19:19 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:19:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <A23DFAD7-0E0B-444C-91CD-A7BFF2ADF88D@aol.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<A23DFAD7-0E0B-444C-91CD-A7BFF2ADF88D@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FF7DAB19734F4C56BDE1FD475544F09F@OwnerPC>

thanks bridgit, I thought they still had the pacmate in some form.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridget Walker
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Ashly and all,
This is a little off topic but still.
The PACmate Omni is still being made.
Though even though I am a Freedom fan they are not doing much with it right 
now.
The new thing is the focus des plays but, if I know anything about Freedom 
Scientific they will come up with something.
I just want to set the record clear the PACmate Omni is still on the market.
The older 4.1 is not it is 6.5 that's it.
So if you use a PACmate check what version you have.
Does it say Omni on it?
When you reset it does it say jaws for pocket PC 6.5?
Hope this helps
Bridget

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 22, 2013, at 11:41 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What 
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really 
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!! :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 20:27:07 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:27:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7046B1133D8D40559BC3015F715535FF@OwnerPC>

Helga,
I do not know a easy way around the pictures. Maybe you need to hire a 
sighted person to help in scanning. Sometimes openbook will ignore graphics, 
but if there is words in the diagram, it often does not. Scanning is 
challlenging.
I'd rather use a human reader than try and scan a book.

I'd suggest scanning and do the best you can and for chapters with pictures, 
get some help.

I despise pdf files for the same reasons. I went to the hastle of dropping 
off receits with the ds office.
then, I get the book in pdf. I requested a word file and she said no that 
she could not get it in word; they only sent her pdf.

Well, just as you experienced, the pdf was useless. Words were so jumbled 
together; they were attached to one another and it sounded jibberish.
Also, every graphic jaws encountered, jaws said graphic and I had to try and 
arrow down to the text while jaws kept saying graphic, graphic, like ten 
times.
It was extremely frustrating. I could not learn this way.

This is why I found the ds office at the community college nearly useless! I 
used learning ally primarily for books.
I'd suggest advocate for a word file or braille books for science.
For scanning, just scan a page at a time. Set your openbook to batch scan 
though so it does not process each page one by one.

Before scanning a text though, see if the publisher sells it in ebook 
format. Some ebooks are accessible.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
for listening to me! God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 20:29:31 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:29:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8333455DCD104D228049B5EEBCE53CCB@OwnerPC>

Helga,
if they scanned it and it’s a graphic, if I were you, I'd complain. Go back 
to them and request they convert it to text. They need to scan it
it with something like abby fine reader which is an OCR program.

try other options before scanning it yourself. I have some vision, so I can 
skip scanning pages with mostly graphics. But you could not do this.
Good luck.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
for listening to me! God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 20:31:50 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:31:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BF78178B276143C2851587CAB1175A88@OwnerPC>

Helga,
sounds like you need some openbook  training. Openbook is an OCR program.
You will need to go page by page unless you have a document feeder on your 
scanner. if so, it will feed the pages in for you if you cut the binding.
Misty is right, scanning is a long process and often inaccurate.
Try to get your dss to do it if at all possible.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan 
my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally 
blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how 
can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be 
a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate 
it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God 
bless! :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" 
> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than 
> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan 
> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word 
> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR 
> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by 
> JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to 
> have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. 
> This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's 
> very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, 
> and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I 
> don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille 
> Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! 
> Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 20:32:58 2013
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:32:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <8333455DCD104D228049B5EEBCE53CCB@OwnerPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<8333455DCD104D228049B5EEBCE53CCB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <2F3E3D0D9F8C45B78200A9CE70379046@MistyBradleyPC>

Helga,
Also, if they give you a PDF file, there is an option to save it as a txt 
file. It should be in the file menu of the Adobe Reader or could probably be 
done in the Save As box by selecting the format you would like. Sometimes 
this works well and sometimes it doesn't, but it is worth trying if the PDF 
you received is hard to read.
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 3:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
if they scanned it and it’s a graphic, if I were you, I'd complain. Go back
to them and request they convert it to text. They need to scan it
it with something like abby fine reader which is an OCR program.

try other options before scanning it yourself. I have some vision, so I can
skip scanning pages with mostly graphics. But you could not do this.
Good luck.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
for listening to me! God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Helga,
Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a

Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
:-) from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>
>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>> Thanks,
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 23 20:36:03 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:36:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2896FA782CDD4B78BAEB2540EDAF2109@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I believe some issues a scanner  or no technology can fix.
Learn to use a reader. they can describe pictures and read to you.

Helga, as I said before you cannot! rely on a scanner or anything to get 
pictures for you.
You have to learn another way. You said before you have chapters with many 
pictures. Work with your professor to learn the material. You could even 
bring something to make graphics if that helps you learn to his office 
hours.
For instance,  use wiki sticks or pip cleaners or tape.
But if you can get good descriptions and memorize concepts you may not  need 
all the pictures they are using.
I would not advise scanning a science book; way too many pictures and 
charts.
So, work with a reader or get it another format.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 2:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you know where I could
buy or borrow  this scanner that scans pages of abook quickly? Also, do I
have to cut the binding off my books in order to scan them in Open Book?
Just curious! Also, I just wanted to ask you, What would happen if your book
has a lot of pictures, specially more in one chapter than others? What would
you do regarding that? Just wondering. I actually talked to my Biollogy
Professor in order to get ready for his class that I'm going to be taking
next semester, and he told me that one chapter has a lot of pictures than
others. And they are actually assign chapters that we need to read in order
to accomplish quizzes, homeworks assignments, and tests. I will really
appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks
and God bless!
P.S. By the way, what College do you attend, and what State do you live in?
Just curious! And also do you remember the college name where you went to
visit in order to help you with your book? just curious! You don't have to
answer if you don't want to ok? Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:09 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Helga,
I have scanned books on my own, especially when I was in high school and my
first semester of college, but it is rather time-consuming. I have not found
a way to do more than one page at one time, but I did visit a college campus
who had a good DS office, and they had a very nice scanner that fed the
pages and could scan a book in around 45 minutes. I always wanted a scanner
like that, but they cost a lot from what the DS office there told me. The
only thing I didn't like about it was that they had to cut the binding off
the book so the scanner could feed pages through quickly, since it was not a
scanner that had the glass top where you have to place and hold the book. It
looked more like a copier that fed pages in and then sent them back out
again after scanning them.
I think that if you are going to scan the books yourself, it is good to have
a scanner that scans quickly. I used to have an HP scanner in the past that
scanned well but was very slow, and it took so long to scan the book. I now
have a scanner that scans within a few seconds, so I found that it was
helpful, because it scanned each page more quickly than the other scanner
did. Also, I used to scan each chapter as I got to it in the class or right
before when I knew it was coming up. This was easier for me, because I
didn't have to do the book all at once, so I would just go chapter by
chapter. Also, if the professor decided to skip a chapter at the last
minute, I would not have put in the extra work just to find out that we
would not have to read the chapter. I would also place a sticky note or
index card or even a folded up sheet of paper in the book where I left off
so that I would know where I stopped scanning and could turn back to it
quickly. I have even folded down the corner of the page at the spot where I
left off at times. As for knowing which way the book was facing, I would
open the book and scan the first few pages of it and then go back and read
them, and if they were the title pages and table of contents like would
normally be found at the beginning of a book, I would know that I had the
book open from the front. If it looked like a glosary or appendices or
things that would ordinarily be in the back of a book, I would figure out
that I was scanning from the back, and I would know to turn the book over to
the front side. Once you know which side is the front, you can mark it with
a sticky note or dot or something that you can mark it with to know that it
is the front from then on. You could also have a sighted classmate or
someone you know to find the first page for you that you would need, such as
page 1 of chapter one, and have them show you which way the book should be
facing so you can mark it.
As far as OpenBook, it is actually an OCR program, so it can convert the
scanned image into text that can be read instead of it being a picture or
graphic.
Hth,
Misty


-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hi Misty,this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, do you think I should scan
my books by myself since I have own open book, and even though I'm totally
blind? Also, does OCR is included with Open book? Just curious! Also, how
can I scan books in Open book without doing it a page at a time? Would it be
a way to do it faster with Open book? Just curious! I will really appreciate
it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God
bless! :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 12:30 AM, "Misty Dawn Bradley" 
> <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Helga,
> It sounds like the DS office scanned the book in as a graphic rather than 
> as text. In order to scan something into text, they have to use optical 
> character recognition (OCR) software, such as ABBYY Fine Reader, Kurzweil, 
> OpenBook, or ReadIris. I wonder if you can bring this up to them and tell 
> them that you need it scanned into text and not a graphic? It surprises me 
> that many DS offices are not knowledgable about putting things into 
> accessible format and scanning properly, etc. They should be able to scan 
> it with OCR, and this should correct the problem of the Microsoft Word 
> document coming up as a picture, because scanning it as OCR using an OCR 
> program will scan it and turn it into editable text that can be read by 
> JAWS and will not be a picture.
> I hope this helps,
> Misty
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to 
> have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. 
> This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's 
> very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, 
> and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I 
> don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille 
> Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! 
> Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
>
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
>
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God 
> bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>>
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
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From bridgetawalker13 at aol.com  Mon Dec 23 20:37:49 2013
From: bridgetawalker13 at aol.com (Bridget Walker)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:37:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <7046B1133D8D40559BC3015F715535FF@OwnerPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<7046B1133D8D40559BC3015F715535FF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E3382F32-20AD-4722-BF88-82114D6582F8@aol.com>

Hey everyone, 
I just thought of another thing regarding textbooks I did not think of before. 
Sometimes depending on the class and professor you can get the previous edition from learning ally or bookshare so you don't have to go to the publishers. For the longest time I thought it was just an issue with my computer, jaws, and OCR when a PDF would not read correctly. I always have words smushed together and jumbled up. 
I don't know how much any of you must use remote databases for papers and such but, I find PDF documents from jstor to be really bad. Ones from Ebsco or the gale database are not bad. I just think it's weird how jaws has like this love hate relationship with PDF documents. 
Just some thoughts 
Bridget 


Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 3:27 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Helga,
> I do not know a easy way around the pictures. Maybe you need to hire a sighted person to help in scanning. Sometimes openbook will ignore graphics, but if there is words in the diagram, it often does not. Scanning is challlenging.
> I'd rather use a human reader than try and scan a book.
> 
> I'd suggest scanning and do the best you can and for chapters with pictures, get some help.
> 
> I despise pdf files for the same reasons. I went to the hastle of dropping off receits with the ds office.
> then, I get the book in pdf. I requested a word file and she said no that she could not get it in word; they only sent her pdf.
> 
> Well, just as you experienced, the pdf was useless. Words were so jumbled together; they were attached to one another and it sounded jibberish.
> Also, every graphic jaws encountered, jaws said graphic and I had to try and arrow down to the text while jaws kept saying graphic, graphic, like ten times.
> It was extremely frustrating. I could not learn this way.
> 
> This is why I found the ds office at the community college nearly useless! I used learning ally primarily for books.
> I'd suggest advocate for a word file or braille books for science.
> For scanning, just scan a page at a time. Set your openbook to batch scan though so it does not process each page one by one.
> 
> Before scanning a text though, see if the publisher sells it in ebook format. Some ebooks are accessible.
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that? I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen to have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet. Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case? In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a picture. This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not English, and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money! Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't have a
> 
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan! What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>> 
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com


From kobycox at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 21:06:58 2013
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:06:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
In-Reply-To: <E3382F32-20AD-4722-BF88-82114D6582F8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01197223BA2E4473826EE5AD97AF70C0@OwnerPC>

Bridget,
Can you please email mee off-list? My email address Is as follows:
Kobycox at gmail.com.
I look forward to hearing from you soon,
Koby.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridget
Walker
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 2:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College

Hey everyone, 
I just thought of another thing regarding textbooks I did not think of
before. 
Sometimes depending on the class and professor you can get the previous
edition from learning ally or bookshare so you don't have to go to the
publishers. For the longest time I thought it was just an issue with my
computer, jaws, and OCR when a PDF would not read correctly. I always
have words smushed together and jumbled up. 
I don't know how much any of you must use remote databases for papers
and such but, I find PDF documents from jstor to be really bad. Ones
from Ebsco or the gale database are not bad. I just think it's weird how
jaws has like this love hate relationship with PDF documents. 
Just some thoughts 
Bridget 


Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 3:27 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Helga,
> I do not know a easy way around the pictures. Maybe you need to hire a
sighted person to help in scanning. Sometimes openbook will ignore
graphics, but if there is words in the diagram, it often does not.
Scanning is challlenging.
> I'd rather use a human reader than try and scan a book.
> 
> I'd suggest scanning and do the best you can and for chapters with
pictures, get some help.
> 
> I despise pdf files for the same reasons. I went to the hastle of
dropping off receits with the ds office.
> then, I get the book in pdf. I requested a word file and she said no
that she could not get it in word; they only sent her pdf.
> 
> Well, just as you experienced, the pdf was useless. Words were so
jumbled together; they were attached to one another and it sounded
jibberish.
> Also, every graphic jaws encountered, jaws said graphic and I had to
try and arrow down to the text while jaws kept saying graphic, graphic,
like ten times.
> It was extremely frustrating. I could not learn this way.
> 
> This is why I found the ds office at the community college nearly
useless! I used learning ally primarily for books.
> I'd suggest advocate for a word file or braille books for science.
> For scanning, just scan a page at a time. Set your openbook to batch
scan though so it does not process each page one by one.
> 
> Before scanning a text though, see if the publisher sells it in ebook
format. Some ebooks are accessible.
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 12:20 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hi Ashley, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, how do I do that?
I
> actually have an open book, but it's open book 8. Actually, I happen
to have
> Open book 9, but I haven't the chance to install it on my laptop yet.
Do I
> use Open book to scan my books? Just to let you know, my books have
> pictures, and how would I know if I'm scanning my books right, since
I'm
> actually totally blind? Just curius! What would you do in this case?
In
> fact, I told my DSS adviser that I would like to have my books in Word
> format, and she actually gave me my Literature book in Microsoft word
> format, but JAWS didn't read it, due to the fact that it was a
picture. This
> is actually what  somebody told me when he saw the file. So in the
end, my
> DSS adviser ended up giving me the book in PDF format. And as you
know, I
> really don't like PDF because the words are attached together and it's
very
> messy! And also I don't like PDF because whenever it comes to be a
picture
> or some kind of image, JAWS always says graphic, and it's so hard to
pass
> through it, and I actually get borred in trying reading the book. I
don't
> know what to do about this situations. Sometimes I really get
frustrated
> about them! That is why I would Like to have my books in Braille! My
DSS
> office is not as large as others, but my adviser doesn't really
coperate
> with me at all. Just to let you know, my first language is not
English, and
> sometimes listening to books in audio is not great sometimes, since I
don't
> know how the words are spell out. That is why I would like to have my
book
> in Braille in order to follow along with the audio book. But not all
the
> book only the chapters assign! Actually, my college has an Braille
Embosser.
> And when I ask my adviser to print my book in Braille, but only the
assign
> chapters of the book, she tells me that the will cost a lot of money!
Thanks
> for listening to me! God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 11:41 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Helga,
> Then scan them yourself or pay someone to do it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:23 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com ; National Association of BlindStudents mailing
list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Some Questions About Attending College
> 
> Hey Joshua, this is Helga. What would happen if my DSS office don't
have a
> 
> Senta machine to scan my books? But I would like to have them scan!
What
> should do about it? I really hate my books in PDF format. I'll really
> appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions. Thanks and God
bless!!
> :-) from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 2:58 PM, "Joshua Hendrickson" <louvins at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lizzy.  What I used to do, was purchase my textbook from the
>> college bookstore, and give the book and receipt to my disability
>> support office.  The receipt was to show proof of purchase.  Then my
>> disability support office would scan the book or books I needed using
>> kurzweil.  Then I would get the book on cd in mp3 format.  I know now
>> my DS office uses dolphin reader and can put the books in daisy
>> format.  I wouldn't be charged anything to have my DS office scan the
>> books I needed.  At least for me, my textbooks were scanned and
>> proofed very well.  Good luck.  I would also agree that if you're
>> looking for a notetaker for college the braille-sense u2 would be
your
>> best bet.  I'm going to see if my REHAB office will get me one.
>> 
>>> On 12/21/13, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just have a few more questions about text books to add to the
>>> discussion.  I know some of you said that your office of
>>> disabilities will scan them for you, but what have others done?
>>> Do you (personally) have to pay the person in disabilities scan
>>> for you or did they hire someone specifically to do this? Does
>>> anyone scan the books themselves using Kurzwhile? Is there a
>>> machine that can get the job done on its own? Is it usually a
>>> hassle to get the PDF versions of textbooks from publishers?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lizzy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40ho
tmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl
ink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40ho
tmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl
ink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40a
ol.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com



From audioaccess2013 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 23 21:15:16 2013
From: audioaccess2013 at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 16:15:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] This Is Your Invitation To Attend The Djd Invasion 2013
	Christmas Party, Taking Place Tonight
Message-ID: <2FEF26C4131148678A55C53C341797F3@JasminePC>

Hi All!
As the subject states, this is your personal invitation to join me on Audio Access FM tonight from 7 to 11 PM eastern for four hours of holiday cheer, as I present for you, The Djd Invasion Four Hours Of Christmas Party.
Join me for a magical show tonight you're not likely to forget.
Hear the traditional holiday favorites you've come to know and love through time.
Hear some funny tracks.
By popular demand, we'll be doing our famous segment on Santa's Modes Of Transportation
We'll be hearing about your Christmas plans
I will also have to deliver a statement of sadness, yet hope for the new year regarding Audio Access FM that you will need to hear.

And more....
This promises to be a night of mixed emotions, laughs, songs, and more.

During the show, you'll be able to get in touch via email at
thedjdinvasion at audioaccess.fm
Via skype at
audioaccess.fm
Via twitter at
audioaccessfm
Via personal twitter at djdrocks
or via telephone at
516 324 2552

No matter how you feel about me personally, Audio Access, or both, I hope you'll take some time to put a little holiday in your heart, and join me at any time between 7 and 11 PM eastern by going to
http://www.audioaccess.fm/listen
to tune in, and by using the above mentioned methods to get in touch.
I hope to have some holiday fun with you tonight. Many who are close to me will tell you that every year, my holiday show is the one they enjoy the most, so come hear what it's all about and be part of some good old fashioned Christmas cheer!
>From David Dunphy

From leyeshprintse at inbox.com  Tue Dec 24 15:22:18 2013
From: leyeshprintse at inbox.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Leye-Shprintse_=C3=96berg?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:22:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Apples Pages App
In-Reply-To: <1387896807.64948.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E90034C2B01.0000013Aleyeshprintse@inbox.com>

BS"D

Helga,

I'm using Pages on my iPhone, iPad and MacBook Air. I Think it's great, the app is easy to understand and use. 

When you've Pages on your Apple Products the documents synchronise between them. When I'll continue working on a document on my PC laptop I send the document to my e-mail in the Word format since I Think it's easier.

Good luck!

Lesholem,
Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Stockholm, Sweden

"Shemah Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad."
- Devarim 6:4

E-mail: leyeshprintse at inbox.com
Blog: http://leyeshprintse.com

Sent from Inbox.com

____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth




From leyeshprintse at inbox.com  Tue Dec 24 15:52:04 2013
From: leyeshprintse at inbox.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Leye-Shprintse_=C3=96berg?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 07:52:04 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of Share Point, One Note,
 and Voice  Thread
In-Reply-To: <1387897403.70119.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E942C16D0D1.0000018Dleyeshprintse@inbox.com>

BS"D

Julie,

This term, I'm using VoiceThread.com in my English A course at the the Mid-Sweden University and I don't Think that site is accessible at all. I haven't been able to use the standard site, I use a Windos 8 laptob with Jaws 14, and on their accessible part of the sight I'm only able to leave text comments. I need to send the link to the VoiceThreads I'll use to my sister so that she can add them on my account. Then, I leave text comments on the accessible page with links to my DropBox to my teacher, we use the voice comments in my courses. Anyway, it isn't a fun site to work with at all, I'm so happy that I only have four weeks left this term. *Yayay* I'm glad tough that some people have got the site to work but I don't Think that makes the site accessible, it only shows that some people have more energy to find ways to work with it.

Lesholem,
Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Stockholm, Sweden

"Shemah Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad."
- Devarim 6:4

E-mail: leyeshprintse at inbox.com
Blog: http://leyeshprintse.com

Sent from Inbox.com.

____________________________________________________________
Share photos & screenshots in seconds...
TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1
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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Dec 24 16:30:59 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 09:30:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Colorado-talk] Blind Coloradan Holiday Issue 2013
	attached and	following
In-Reply-To: <000501cefdb4$c9040eb0$5b0c2c10$@org>
References: <000501cefdb4$c9040eb0$5b0c2c10$@org>
Message-ID: <04e701cf00c5$8802b5b0$98082110$@labarrelaw.com>

Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

Below and attached you will find the 2013 Holiday Edition of the Blind
Coloradan.  I also want to take this opportunity to wish each and everyone
of you the very best of this holiday season.  I have been involved in this
Federation since 1986 and words are wholly inadequate to describe how much
my Federation family has meant to me over the years.  Thank you so very much
for your love and support over the years.  Our future is very bright and it
is precisely because we have such wonderful members.  So whether you are
celebrating Christmas or some other holiday tradition, we wish you the very
best from the Rocky Mountain State.

Warmly,

Scott C. LaBarre, President

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado



-----Original Message-----
From: Colorado-talk [mailto:colorado-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Lisa Bonderson
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 11:54 AM
To: Colorado-talk NFBC
Subject: [Colorado-talk] Blind Coloradan Holiday Issue 2013 attached and
following

 <http://www.nfbco.org/> NFBCO
                                            Newsletter for the National
Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

Vol. 3 No. 3
December 2013 Holiday Issue

 

Scott C. LaBarre

NFB of Colorado President

2233 West Shepperd Avenue

Littleton, CO 80120

Phone: (303) 778-1130

 <mailto:slabarre at nfbco.org> slabarre at nfbco.org

 

Kevan Worley

Editor

1837 South Nevada Avenue

PMB 243

Colorado Springs, CO 80905

Phone: (866) 543-6808

 <mailto:kevanworley at blindmerchants.org> kevanworley at blindmerchants.org

 

Table of Contents:

A Letter from the Editor
Page 3

>From the President's Desk
Page 5

2013/14 NFB of Colorado Scholarship Program                Page 9

Blindness Cured? And thank you for it.                               Page 10

Jessica at Large
Page 12

Meet the Blind Who Lead the Blind                                    Page 15


Audit Slams Spending in Colorado Program .                   Page 18


A Presidential Report                                                   ____
Page 24

An Email from the First Vice President .                            Page 34

In Memoriam
Page 36

In the Family: A Book Release Announcement                   Page 37

Quality CCTV's from and for the Visually Impaired            Page 38

Blind Buzz
Page 39

Resolutions
Page 45

 

The Letter from the Editor

Dear Reader,

 

"Here we come a-wassailing." For most of us the holidays mean family in one
form or another. This is our holiday 2013 issue of the Blind Coloradan...an
issue filled with celebration, family, reflection, resolution, recognition
of accomplishment and love.  I begin this issue with a heartfelt wish for
peace, prosperity and joy from the Worley family to yours. The Federation
Family revels in many faith traditions. The Federation is truly a people's
movement. We are thankful for each and every member. We honor your faith and
worship traditions. It is our diversity that makes us the strong and dynamic
force for change that we are. I hope you will agree that we capture some of
our Federation family diversity and spirit in this issue of the Blind
Coloradan. 

 

Our family is sometimes reverent and often rambunctious. These are the
characteristics which also describe the recent mid-October State Convention
of the NFBCO in Colorado Springs. You will read some of the highlights
throughout this issue. Our Federation family is in the midst of amazing
growth and unprecedented influence. When it is important to the blind and
visually impaired of Colorado, the Federation will be the leading voice.

In Colorado, we are fortunate to have a President who is not only a voice
for the blind of Colorado. He is a voice for the blind of this Nation on the
world stage. As many of our readers know, Scott LaBarre has traveled
throughout the world to bring our Federation perspective to international
treaty negotiations and other matters important to the world's people with
disabilities. As Scott will tell you, however, he has been able to earn
those opportunities because we have such a strong engaged affiliate working
with him. He will also tell you of the love and support of his wife, Anahit,
a blind woman who is a leader in her own right. Our State President has two
bright, active children who serve to keep him grounded. There is never a
dull moment in the LaBarre family, especially at the holidays. The same can
be said for our NFBCO family. Scott's report is always a high point of our
State Convention. We proudly include it in this newsletter. 

 

Holidays are for the children. You will learn a little of the work we
continue to do for our spiritual children at the Colorado School for the
Deaf and Blind. I know you will enjoy reading the reflections of NFB of
Colorado Board member Eric Woods. We will hear from budding author and
student Rebekah Felix. You will read about one of the leaders of our
Federation family, Wayne Marshall, as he works to create opportunities, both
within the Federation and for others who are socially and economically
disadvantaged. In this issue's Jessica at Large column, we learn about new
chapters of our family being developed around the State. 

 

We are publishing the full text of the resolutions passed at the State
Convention. These policy statements identify some of the work we will take
on in 2014, some of which has already begun in earnest.

The Blind Coloradan cannot bring you fruit cake. But you will be filled with
joy to note that Blind Buzz is back! 

 

Let's keep doing amazing things in 2014. In order to illustrate our work,
for our print readers, in a more vivid way, we hope to be able to add some
graphics and photos to the Blind Coloradan in 2014. Again, we thank Julie
Hunter, Lorinda Riddle, Lisa Bonderson, and Jessica Beecham. Without them
there would be no Blind Coloradan. Please forward the Blind Coloradan to
anyone you think may not be receiving it. Call it our own family holiday
letter. 2014 here we come! 

 

At your service,

 



 

Kevan Worley

Aggregator and Contributor

 

 

A HOLIDAY QUOTE FROM THE BLIND COLORADAN

"And so at this Christmas time I greet you. Not quite as the world sends
greetings but with profound esteem and with the prayer that for you, now and
forever, the day breaks and the shadows flee away." -Fra Giovanni

 

>From the President's Desk

 

Unbelievably 2013 is drawing near a close and the holiday time is full upon
us.  This time of year provides an excellent opportunity to slow down and
reflect upon the year upon which the calendar is about to close and to look
forward to the year about to start.  

 

For the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado, I think this has been
a tremendous year.  We have taken several significant steps forward on our
march to equality and true freedom for the blind.  Many of our
accomplishments are highlighted in the Presidential Report reprinted
elsewhere in this issue.  Over all, we continue to grow and thrive, adding
new members and programs all the time.  I want to extend my sincerest
gratitude to our members and supporters for the tremendous work we have
accomplished together.

 

Since that report, a number of significant events have occurred.  On
Wednesday, December 11, 2013, our Educate Blind Children Now Committee,
under the tremendous leadership of Kevan Worley, met with officials from the
Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind.  Superintendant Carol Hilty,
Principal of the Blind School, Jennifer Langley, and Director of Outreach,
Laura Douglas traveled to the Colorado Center for the Blind  to meet with
us.  We had a very positive and encouraging exchange of ideas.  As you will
see in my Presidential Report, I had expressed concern over the school's
lack of full engagement with us.  Our recent meeting appears to be the
beginning of a new, much more meaningful era.  NFB Colorado and CSDB have
pledged to work together more extensively on a number of projects, including
a mentorship program and future BELL programs in Colorado Springs.  Since I
have been President of this affiliate, we have never had such a high level
meeting with the school.  We met for over two hours and I am very hopeful
about what we will be able to offer the dozens of blind children who attend
the school and its programs.

 

Recently, I returned from the National Center for the Blind where we held
some national board meetings.  As most everyone has heard, Dr. Maurer
announced at that meeting, he is not planning to seek reelection to the
Office of President at the 2014 National Convention and he will be
supporting Mark Riccobono to become our next President.  As you can imagine,
it was a very emotional and momentous board meeting.  Dr. Maurer has been a
great National President.  He is stepping down at the zenith of his powers
and abilities.  He is still very healthy and vibrant, making this the best
time to affect a smooth transition.  Mark Riccobono is the Executive
Director of the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute. He is
bright and highly capable.  I am confident that he will lead us well.  Here
in Colorado, we proudly own a piece of Mr. Riccobono's success because he is
a graduate of the Colorado Center for the Blind.  Congratulations to Marc
Maurer and Mark Riccobono!

 

I have asked Dan Burke and Eric Woods to chair our Legislative Affairs
Committee.  Our Annual State Day at the Capital is scheduled for February
28th. As is our custom, we will gather around 8:00 a.m. in the old Supreme
Court Chambers. We will discuss logistics and the issues important to the
blind before taking our message to the halls of the State Capital. Please
stay tuned to all NFBCO information channels.  

 

Before leaving this message, I also wanted to tell you about a couple of
special events which took place at our 2013 Banquet.  We presented Dr. Tanni
Anthony with our Distinguished Services Award.  We did so because of her
incredible leadership in securing a stronger and better education for all of
our blind children.  The handsome wooden plaque presented to Dr. Anthony was
engraved this way:

 

National Federation

of the Blind of Colorado

Distinguished Service Award

Presented to

Dr. Tanni Anthony

In recognition of your outstanding leadership in educating blind children
and for your tireless advocacy in making sure that blind children receive a
strong Braille education.

 

Dr. Anthony is the Director of the Access, Learning, and Literacy Team of
the Exceptional Student Services Unit within the Colorado Department of
Education.  

 

At the Annual Banquet, I also had the great honor of presenting this year's
Raymond W. McGeorge Award to Kevan and Bridget Worley.  The McGeorge Award
is our highest honor and I cannot think of a couple more deserving than
Kevan and Bridget.  These two exemplify and live Ray's spirit and work hard
to accomplish the work Ray started in 1955.  Although she is the quieter of
the two, Bridget works hard and in a very powerful way to spread the
Federation philosophy and message everywhere.  Since 1983, Kevan has
committed his time and energy to helping us secure real opportunity for the
blind in our state and throughout the world.  Like many of us, there is no
doubt that Ray McGeorge deeply touched Kevan's life and provided for him the
ongoing inspiration to keep realizing our dreams.  When I presented the
award, I reminded Kevan of his own words in an article entitled The Ties
That Bind which he wrote for one of our NFB Kernel books.  Here those words
are:

 

"A group of students and I were heading out to the bus stop, talking about
the things we wished we had learned as blind children. I casually mentioned
wishing I had learned to tie a tie. Ray McGeorge overheard and said, "I can
teach you to do that right now." 

 

As I hurried away from the center, I told him I would appreciate the lesson.
Perhaps we could get together sometime before I graduated. Ray replied
slowly, drawing out his words as he always does, "I don't see why we can't
get started right now." It was past 4:30 in the afternoon, and I was ready
to get back to the apartment. Ray was saying, "I'll see if we can't find a
tie around here, and we'll just fix you right up." He's retired now, but at
that time he had been a machinist for about thirty-five years. I was sure he
must be tired from a hard day at work and certainly he would not be able to
find a tie. But as I stepped up to the bus stop on Broadway, I heard Ray's
distinct low voice behind me. "Come on, Kevan, this shouldn't take long.
Let's get to it."

 

With busses going by every ten minutes, Ray stood behind me, patiently
showing me how to make the knot. He had me do it until I not only got it
right but could do it again and again. "We need to do it so you will never
forget this time," he said. And then he added, "Maybe someday you will show
some other young man how to tie a tie.""

 

Our heartfelt words to Kevan and Bridget as permanently engraved on their
plaque are:

National Federation

of the Blind of Colorado

THE RAYMOND W. MCGEORGE AWARD

Presented to

Kevan & Bridget Worley

You inspire us with your passion, dedication and commitment. You make a
difference for blind people everywhere. We respect you, but above all, we
love you!

 

As I bring this message to a close, I want to wish all of you the absolute
best of the holiday season.  May we all enjoy some quality time with our
friends and family during this delightful time of year.  It has been a
terrific 2013.  Let's make 2014 even better!

 

Cheers!

Scott C. LaBarre, President

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

A HOLIDAY QUOTE FROM THE BLIND COLORADAN

"Heigh-ho! Sing, heigh-ho! Unto the green holly: Most friendship if
feigning, most loving mere folly: Then heigh-ho, the holly! This life is
most jolly." -Shakespeare

 

 

2013 - 2014 NFB of Colorado Scholarship Program

By: Buna Dahal

 

>From the Editor: Buna Dahal is the effervescent chair-person of our State
Scholarship Committee. She has served in a number of leadership positions.
She is an entrepreneur and corporate trainer. Her website is
<http://www.DynamicBuna.com> www.DynamicBuna.com. Each year the National
Federation of the Blind of Colorado has worked to increase our support for
blind students. Here is Buna's latest report: 

 

Congratulations to our scholars for 2013; Nicholas (Nick) Thomas from Fort
Collins, Nure Kebirtilmo from Greeley, and Antonio Rozier from Littleton.
Nick is pursuing his undergraduate degree in psychology at Metro State
University. Nure is a graduate student at the University of Northern
Colorado studying rehabilitation counseling. Antonio is attending the
Arapahoe Community College majoring in Computer Information Systems.
Scholarships were presented at the banquet of our state convention in
October. In addition to achieving scholarly distinction, these winners have
taken on leadership responsibilities both within and outside of the
Federation. Nure Kebirtilmo serves as a board member of the Greeley Chapter,
Antonio Rozier from Littleton, serves as President of the Colorado
Association of Blind Students and the First Vice President of the Denver
Chapter and Nicholas (Nick) Thomas from Fort Collins is President of our
Poudre Valley Chapter.

 

Antonio Rozier serves as President of the Colorado Association of Blind
Students. Nick Thomas is President of our Poudre Valley Chapter. We are
proud of our students!

 

The 2014 NFB of Colorado Scholarship Program is in full swing. This program
is one of our priorities that enrich the lives of blind students in
Colorado. The application deadline is April 15, 2014. Scholarship
information can be found on this site:  <http://www.nfbco.org>
http://www.nfbco.org

Previous winners are encouraged to apply. Let's spread the news throughout
Colorado so new blind scholars can benefit from our excellent program!

 

Blindness Cured?

And thank you for it. 

By: Eric Woods

 

>From the Editor: Eric Woods is a long-time Federationist and a member of the
NFB of Colorado Board of Directors. As a blind adult he has been an
Industrial Arts instructor. He has worked as a counselor and role model for
hundreds of blind youth. Many of our readers know Eric as a guitar player,
singer and songwriter. Eric regularly performs in the Americana Group 'Stray
Dog'. We are thankful for Eric's reflections during this time of celebration
and Thanksgiving. Here is what he says:

 

It being the holiday season and especially that of Thanksgiving, I find
myself, as many of us do around this time of year, putting the giving of
thanks that is in my heart into words.  I've had what most people around the
world would consider to be a blessed existence, at least comparatively
so...decent up-bringing, opportunities, plenty of good food and friends, and
some times more than enough beer.  For all these things I am quite thankful.
But as I get older, not only in my overall years of life but also in the
increasing number of years which I have been blind, I find that my hopes for
the future and my thankfulness for all I've been lucky enough to have has
simplified some.  I imagine that this is not altogether uncommon.

 

When I was a little boy I had such dreams; dreams that very few could ever
obtain, but the stuff that makes youngsters bounce around and would likely
lead to discouragement if dared to be dreamt at a later age.  I wanted to
win Wimbledon.  I wanted to play second base for a World Series winning ball
club.  I wanted to be a rock star and have countless busty chicks trying to
tackle me on the street.  Nobody will be surprised to realize that not even
a whiff of these or similar dreams came true, though I once was knocked over
by two women coming out of a Wal-Mart.  Gradually we all realize the
differences between dreams and reality.  I had given up the pie-in-the-sky
sort of dreams for a regular existence and I was fine with that.  I was
about where I wanted to be at that stage in my life when I went blind.
After going blind, I wanted to be cured and, God knows I would have been
thankful.  Of course I was cured shortly thereafter.  At least I began the
curing process though I didn't quite understand how all that was happening
at the time.

 

Initially I wanted my eyes back in good working order but, really, that was
just the cause of my problems, not the underlying manifestation of my
situation.  I wanted to feel normal again.  It wasn't that I couldn't see a
book or a newspaper; it's that I suddenly had no means of reading any
longer.  It wasn't that I couldn't see the grocery store; rather that I had
no way of getting there.  I wanted to feel good about myself and I didn't.
I wanted to feel optimistic about the rest of my life and I couldn't.  I
wanted to be a normal guy again and I didn't know how.  God never chose to
give me my sight back.  Doctors couldn't medicate or operate my eyes back
into usefulness.  Scientists and engineers had no solutions.  After some
time feeling despair and desperation I did find a cure of sorts. My eyes are
not healed, but the hole I felt in my soul over the loss of sight I
experienced as a young man has been filled with countless caring men and
women. I have known them for many years now. I am thankful for them.  I feel
good about myself.  I read books and newspapers again and feel optimistic
about my remaining time.  I am a normal guy.  Thank you, National Federation
of the Blind with all your individual, local, state and national components.
You have done this for me.  I will never be able to thank you enough.

 

 

A HOLIDAY QUOTE FROM THE BLIND COLORADAN

"Are you going to send a flaming red neck tie to a quiet man with pepper and
salt taste in clothing? Are you going to give teaspoons to a woman who
already has several unused pounds of them? Are you planning to give a set of
Scott's novels to a man who already has every volume? Are you planning to
give large objects to people who live in small rooms? Are you going to send
a potted fern to a lady who lives near the woods? Are you planning to send a
dyed goat skin to a hunter? Are you forgetting that an author will already
have plenty of ink wells? God tells us to forgive our enemies, cried the
fiercest of all, the Medici's. But nowhere does he tell us to forgive our
friends. And one may well suspect that he was moved to this exasperatory
burst by the receipt of an ill chosen gift for which he was expected to be
thankful." 

-Saturday Evening Post, 1907

 

Jessica At Large

By: Jessica Beecham

 

>From the Editor: Jessica Beecham is the Chapter and Community Development
Coordinator for the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado. I know you
will be inspired to read Jessica's report.  Catch up to her if you can.

 

Colorado has an amazing affiliate.  An affiliate that makes a difference in
the state of Colorado and across the Nation.  As I reflect back on the last
few months, my heart swells with pride as I consider all of the
accomplishments and growth that has occurred in the National Federation of
the Blind of Colorado.  

 

The word is RUN!  Last April Scott LaBarre asked me to run the Cherry Creek
Sneak 5k to support Lending Sight, a USABA athletic club in the Denver Metro
area.  It was a fantastic opportunity to meet and reconnect with awesome
blind athletes like Randle Crosby, Amelia Dickerson, Ethan Johnston, Kerry
Kuck, Terry Garrett, and so many more.  Now that he knows I can run he has
me running EVERYWHERE.  Hoofing it through the shops on 16th street mall to
collect donations for the NFBCO auction, dashing to meetings with the Denver
Regional Mobility and Access Council, DRMAC, membership committee, sprinting
to the Greyhound station to catch a ride to Rocky Ford to discuss
transportation issues, racing to Greeley for the New Perspectives Technology
Expo, jogging down to the Springs for a chapter meeting, jetting downtown
for a night time cocktail party/fundraiser on a beautiful balcony. It's all
a part of the exciting and high energy work I get to do for NFBCO.  From
Colorado Springs to Greeley then back to Denver all in a day's time, that's
my style and I would be lying if I said I didn't absolutely LOVE it.  Here,
there, and everywhere, the way to build the Federation in Colorado is to
RUN, RUN, RUN!        

 

As the leaves were changing color and falling from the trees, we of NFBCO
were experiencing new growth.  The Aurora chapter had its first official
meeting on August 24.  The chapter was formed with eight members.  Wayne
Marshall is the President, Beth Mouriquand is Vice President, Richard
Mouriquand serves as a Secretary/Treasurer, James Triplett serves as a Board
Member, and Jan Triplett is a Board Member.  By the second meeting in
September we doubled the number of members to 16!  There is nothing like
exponential growth! In October they hosted a fantastic Meet the Blind Month
activity at Town Center of Aurora Mall.  The chapter had a table where
members passed out NFB literature and Kernel books.  

 

In October our State Convention was held in beautiful Colorado Springs!  If
you have never attended a NFBCO state convention it is an experience worth
having.  In the opinion of many people who have attended NFB state
conventions across the United States, Colorado puts on one of the best.  We
heard from great speakers who presented information on topics relevant to
the blind of Colorado.  We heard from Joelle Brouner, who is the new
director of Rehabilitation Services in Colorado. She had only been on the
job a short few days. Conventioneers were impressed with her energy and the
experience she has brought from the state of Washington.  We were inspired
by Professor Cary Supalo, a nationally recognized blind chemist. Members and
guests were treated to a banquet address from Carl Jacobsen, President,
National Federation of the Blind of New York. Carl also serves on the Board
of Directors of our National Organization. Throughout his long career, Carl
has inspired a number of innovative youth programs for the blind in New
York. He is a retired entrepreneur who brought his unique New York brand of
wry humor, self-reflection, and encouragement. The Friday luncheon featured
Colorado Representatives Pete Lee and Mark Waller. Each of these leading
legislators has shown a keen interest in our work. They were particularly
interested in a resolution brought to the convention raising concern over
the newly introduced name of the State Agency which houses the Colorado
Division of Vocational Rehabilitation.  Representative Lee immediately
championed our cause. There is no doubt that the policy statement passed at
the convention, along with Representative Lee's inquiry, had an immediate
impact on Colorado Officials. They stepped up their process to rename the
"Office of Long-Term Care" to one which more accurately represents its
mission.  The convention featured many excellent seminars including seminars
on iDevices, emergency preparedness, wellness, tactile graphics, deaf
blindness, and more.  Our newly formed Colorado Association of Guide Dog
Users elected a Board of Directors, which includes Melissa Green, of
Greeley, as its President. Vice President Shon Spears, Secretary Marty Rahn,
Treasurer Becky Sabo, and Board Members Daniel Sweeney, Beth Allred, and
Jenny Hwang.  Our Exhibit Hall was packed with exhibitors of technology and
information for the blind. It wasn't all meetings, exhibits, and seminars.
We made sure to take some time to have fun!  On Friday night we put our
heads together to figure out "Whodunnit" during the western-themed
murder-mystery presented by Red Herring, a local theater troop.  Evening
festivities ended with a Ho-Down and the beginning of contests which pitted
two Colorado Springs chapter leaders against one another in a unique
convention fundraising competition. If you weren't, you should have been
there! Let's put it this way, in Colorado the Federation knows how to have
fun. Next year's convention will be in Denver over the last weekend in
October. Plan now to attend. There is nothing like the fun of a NFBCO
convention at Halloween. We will be planning activities for the children of
all ages from 2 to 92.

 

There is no rest in Colorado!  As we head into a new year, we have begun our
work to form a new chapter in Grand Junction. Our organizing meeting will
take place on Saturday, January 18. The get together will be at the Center
for Independence. The address is 740 Gunnison Ave. The meeting will begin at
10 a.m. with lunch to follow around noon. How about pizza?  If you know
blind people in Grand Junction please share their contact information with
me.  You can e-mail  <mailto:jbeecham at cocenter.org> jbeecham at cocenter.org or
call 303-778-1130 x 223.  Stay tuned to Colorado Talk, Facebook, Twitter,
<http://www.nfbco.org> www.nfbco.org, and the NFB-NEWSLINER local channel
for details. If you have colleagues, friends or family members anywhere on
the Western Slope forward this newsletter to them. Our organizing team will
be in Grand Junction Wednesday, January 15 through Saturday, January 18. 

 

Although our mentoring program got off to a slow start, we are now in full
swing.  Our first mentoring session was held on December 11.  We met with
four AWESOME students, ate pizza, and had lots of fun.  During our second
session on December 18, we made holiday cookies and Braille cards.  There
were 12 students in attendance and everyone had a blast.  I am happy to say
that we are making great strides in our efforts to work with CSDB
administration.  We are certain that with our shared passion and commitment
for educating blind students we will come away from our discussions with a
strengthened relationship that will help both entities serve blind children
more effectively.  

 

As always, we want you to be in the know.  The best way to keep up with all
the happenings in Colorado is to sign up for Colorado Talk.  You can do this
by going to  <http://www.nfbnet.org> www.nfbnet.org and finding the link for
Colorado Talk.  You will be asked to complete a short form that will take
less than a minute.  If you need help, call 303-778-1130 x 223.  You can
also read our blog at  <http://www.nfbco.blogspot.com>
www.nfbco.blogspot.com, like us on Facebook, and follow us on Twitter 

@nfbco.                 Well until next time. got to run!

 

 

Meet the Blind Who Lead the Blind

 

>From the Editor: From time to time in these pages we introduce you to one of
our leaders. This month we proudly highlight Mr. Wayne Marshall. Wayne has
been a leader throughout his entire life. Before his blindness and since,
Wayne has worked to make a difference. We are lucky to have his leadership
in the movement. 

 

Born in Saint Louis, Missouri, Wayne Marshall is the youngest of seven
children. While growing up, Wayne was very active in school, sports, church
and various community based activities. Upon the completion of high school,
Wayne attended college as a communications major until leaving for a job in
telecommunications.

 

He relocated to Denver in 1982 to advance his career. He later became a
building engineer for Beta West, a division of US West Telecommunications.
While at Beta West, Wayne was diagnosed with RP, Retinitis Pigmentosa, a
degenerative eye disease. Wayne is now blind as a result of his RP.  Before
leaving Beta West, he founded Handy Solutions of which he was the sole
proprietor for ten years. Handy Solutions took pride in providing
high-quality, low-cost home repair and landscaping services to seniors and
single parent households. After operating Handy Solutions for several years,
Wayne began to experience substantial vision loss. This made it difficult
for him to operate his company at the level of service he had become
accustomed to providing. At this time in Wayne's life he had not learned the
alternative methods used by many blind people. 

 

As a result of Wayne's vision loss, he became a client of the Colorado
Vocational Rehabilitation Services where he met Julie Deden, who was
assigned as his counselor. She then referred him to the Colorado Center for
the Blind as a student in the SRT (Service Rep. Training Program). As a
student at the Colorado Center for the Blind, he became a member of the
National Federation of the Blind (NFB); however, he did not participate
actively because he was not totally accepting of his blindness. After
graduating from the Center, Wayne sought the counseling services of Dr.
William Saker, also blind, to help him deal with adjusting to his blindness.
It was Dr. Saker who encouraged Wayne to pursue an education in human
services.  In 2007, while at Metropolitan State University, Wayne returned
to the Colorado Center for the Blind as an intern.  It was then that Wayne
began to actively participate in the NFB. In January of 2008, Wayne became a
CCB staff member, where he is currently employed.  His responsibilities
include counseling and case management, orientation and mobility instructor
for the Independence Training Program, Adaptive Technology Instructor, and
facilitator for the Senior Services Program. 

 

During his time at Metropolitan State University, Wayne worked at the Access
Center for Students with Disabilities. While assisting students and staff
with accessibility issues, Wayne was coined "Ambassador" due to his diligent
advocacy on behalf of students with disabilities. Wayne has served as a
board member of both the Denver and Mile High Chapters of the Colorado
affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind, and currently serves as
the president of the newly founded Aurora Chapter.

 

Wayne is the father of two wonderful children, Tyler and Kelsey. As a result
of his divorce in 2002, Wayne founded the nonprofit organization Me and My
Dad, A Responsible Fatherhood Initiative. The organization began because of
a lack of support for fathers who wanted to be an integral part of their
children's lives. "Though Me and My Dad  was founded as a support group for
single and divorced fathers, it has since evolved into a responsible
fatherhood initiative to meet the needs of all fathers  who want to be a
significant part of their children's  lives", says Wayne. 

 

Wayne holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Human Services for Mental Health
and Counseling, and Certification in Human Services for High Risk Youth
Studies from Metropolitan State University of Denver, Colorado.   He has
earned an Associates of Arts degree from the Community College of Aurora in
Aurora, Colorado. He gained his Service Rep Training Certification from the
Colorado Center for the Blind, and his National Orientation and Mobility
Certification from the National Blindness Professional Certification Board.

 

Wayne's recognitions include Alma Mater (MSUD) in 2008 "Outstanding Alumni
Award for Work Ethic", for his work on obtaining equal rights for people
with disabilities and his advocacy with the National Federation of the
Blind. He is the recipient of the Inclusion in Education award from the
Cross Disability Council of Denver and the Martin Luther King Peace Award,
for his human services and volunteer work within the state of Colorado. 

 

Currently, Wayne is the president of the Aurora Chapter of the National
Federation of the Blind of Colorado, the Executive Director of Me and My
Dad, a member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity, and a member of the Aurora
Cyber Lions Club. Wayne's hobbies consist of swimming, bowling, tandem bike
riding, attending sporting events, live concerts, listening to music
(especially Jazz), and reading books. As is often the case with
Federationists, Wayne stands up for justice and equality. He is committed to
children and those dads who overcome obstacles to be a part of their
children's lives. He touches many with his energy, good humor, and humanity.


 

A HOLIDAY QUOTE FROM THE BLIND COLORADAN

"Christmas is coming. The geese are getting fat. Please to put a penny in
the old man's hat. If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do. If you
haven't got a ha'penny, God bless you." -A beggar's rhyme.

 


Audit Slams Spending in Colorado Program to Help Disabled Get Jobs


 <mailto:jbunch at denverpost.com?subject=The%20Denver%20Post:> By Joey Bunch
The Denver Post

Posted: 12/10/2013

 

>From the Editor: In the Labor Day 2013 Blind Coloradan, we carried an
article about mismanagement at the Colorado Division of Vocational
Rehabilitation, which has made it virtually impossible for eligible blind
individuals to receive appropriate and necessary rehabilitation services. We
published information about an upcoming legislative audit as well as last
summer's dismissal of long time DVR Director Nancy Smith. Since that issue,
the division has hired Joelle Brouner as its Director. The Legislative audit
has been presented to the Joint Budget Committee of the Colorado State
Legislature. Printed below is an article from the Denver Post. It is
followed by a letter to Members of the Legislative Audit Committee from
Julie Reiskin. We think these two items provide a balanced perspective.
Julie Reiskin is wise and persistent. She is the Executive Director of the
Colorado Cross-Disability Coalition, and a long time friend of the National
Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  Here is the Denver Post Article: 

 

A scathing audit of the state program intended to train disabled people for
jobs found that millions of dollars have been misspent with little or no
oversight, while people who need the program languished on waiting lists.

 

The audit of Colorado's Vocational Rehabilitation Program, presented to a
legislative committee Tuesday, found "concerns" in 98 percent of the cases
that auditors reviewed.

 

In many instances, administrators and staff didn't understand state and
federal laws that govern the program, including how long people can receive
benefits, auditors found.

 

One person received $203,000 over 32 years without moving any closer to
employment. Another was paid $315,000 to pursue a variety of unfinished
degrees - including from a university in the Caribbean - over a 19-year
period and still doesn't have a job, the audit found.

A client who got more than $2,000 for job training spent the money on
personal expenses instead, while another got $1,300 for a laptop computer
but then exchanged it for a video game system.

 

The audit also found $13,800 in questionable charges on the program's credit
card, including a tent, gift cards, children's clothing, tools, and
household and cleaning supplies.

 

The report flagged $171,000 in bonuses to job-placement vendors, on top of
$340,000 in regular fees, although the bonuses did not appear to be
"reasonable, necessary or allowable under federal requirements."

 

The program, which serves nearly 20,000 people, spent about $53.5 million in
the current fiscal year. As of August, nearly 4,300 people were on the
program's waiting list, while others continued to receive benefits year
after year without finishing their educations or finding a job.

 

Audit committee member Sen. Lois Tochtrop, D-Thornton, said she was "very
appalled," and Sen. David Balmer, R-Centennial questioned whether fraud
charges were appropriate.

 

Jenny Page, the legislative audit manager who presented the report, said
that although there was no obvious proof of fraud, there were pervasive
mistakes and misunderstandings of the law.

 

In some cases, vendors billed for the same services more than once, "but it
wasn't clear whether that was a mistake or intentional," she said.

 

Reggie Bicha, head of the state Department of Human Services, asked for the
audit after the assessments he received from former division administrators
didn't match the data. He promised immediate reforms.

 

"We can do a much better job of being good stewards of the taxpayers'
resources," he said.

Bicha said the problems were the product of a "risk-averse culture" to
approve every request and leave people in the program indefinitely, rather
than challenge suspicious claims.

 

The program, however, has been the subject of critical audits in the past,
and no substantiative changes were made, Page said.

 

Viki Manley, director of the state Office of Long-Term Care, has been put in
charge of overseeing reforms. Manley cleaned up similar problems with the
Colorado State Veterans Nursing Home program, Bicha said.

 

In October, Joelle Brouner was hired to run the division. She served in a
similar role for the state of Washington.

 

Nancy Smith was the division director until about six months ago. Manley
would not say whether Smith was fired, only that there was a "settlement
process" and Smith no longer works for the state.

 

In an interview, Brouner and Manley said they had already reassessed half of
the division's cases. They spoke of restoring the public's trust.

 

"It's totally unacceptable," Manley said. "Nobody here thinks it's
acceptable."

 

Brouner said the audit's findings should not be a black eye for the value of
the program.

 

"It is not a waste of money to help people with disabilities cultivate the
skills necessary to find employment," Brouner said. "Not when the
alternative is for government to support them their whole lives."

 

Gov. John Hickenlooper, who has spoken often about being a good steward of
the tax money, declined to comment through his press office, but his
spokesman said steps were being taken to correct the problems.

 

That is what the Denver Post had to say. Here now, in part, is the letter to
the Joint Budget Committee from Julie Reiskin.

 

Dear Members of the Legislative Audit Committee:

 

I am writing you on behalf of the  <http://www.ccdconline.org> Colorado
Cross-Disability Coalition (CCDC).   As most of you know, CCDC is the
largest disability rights organization in Colorado and we represent people
with all types of disabilities. .   

We are very interested in the results and aftermath of this audit and wanted
to provide our position. .

 

First, we applaud Director Bicha calling for an audit. It is good leadership
to know and admit that you have a problem and seek transparency in the
solution.

 

Second, we applaud Director Bicha and the Department management for hiring
Joelle Brouner as the new director. While we have not yet had an opportunity
to work with our new DVR director, we are confident that Ms. Brouner has the
vision and leadership that we need. Under her leadership, the Rehab Council
in Washington state helped their program make significant improvements,
including a 98% placement in competitive employment and assuring that 97% of
clients had significant disabilities. CCDC participated on the hiring
committee and STRONGLY supported her hiring.   .

 

It is tempting when a negative audit comes out to make super restrictive
policies.  It is tempting to find one client that received what may be "too
many" services or one vendor that may have been overpaid and
over-compensated by blanketing the program with rules, layers, and
bureaucracy. We do not know what is or is not being proposed at this point.
We hope that changes will be based on data, some of which may or may not be
immediately available.   Changes in policy or programs that are not based on
data are the cause of most program failures.  Audits spot weaknesses but may
not provide comprehensive data.   While we agree that even one dollar
misspent is a serious problem that needs to be corrected, we ask that you
not allow broad based punitive policies to be enacted. 

Excessive bureaucracy and punitive oversight in disability programs has not
worked and will not work.   People with disabilities deserve policy and
program changes that are based on fact, not fiction.  We ask you to direct
the department to allow Ms. Brouner to work with the disability community to
come up with realistic plans that will assure some real outcomes and then
hold us to those outcomes.

 

Any corrective action plan must be outcome based.  Under the leadership of
Director Bicha, CDHS has been a model in outcome based solutions.  We need
to show that the money we spend on DVR is helping people get or keep jobs or
increase their earning power. The money we spend on Independent Living
Centers should be helping people get out and stay out of institutions and
should be providing measurable increases in community integration.
Micromanagement and layers of bureaucracy will not achieve these goals.  To
achieve these goals we need real and meaningful community engagement.

 

Real and meaningful community engagement is more than a rubber stamp.
Meaningful engagement is demonstrated when all parties listen, share, and
take action together.

 

.Please avoid the temptation to make the problem worse by

cutting off their resources.   



We need DVR to be an agency that helps get people with disabilities real
jobs with livable wages.  We need DVR to be an agency that will support
Independent Living Centers to provide useful, outcome based, Independent
Living Services as mandated by the Rehab Act.  The goal must be to end the
drastic poverty and isolation that is reality for too many of us with
disabilities. Colorado has a proud history on disability rights and
inclusion, and has a strong disability community that stands ready, willing
and able to support Ms. Brouner and the Department to implement a productive
corrective action plan. Your direction is the first steps towards a
transformation that will help Colorado take our rightful place as a national
leader in employment and integration for people with all types of
disabilities. 

 

 

REACHING NEW HEIGHTS AND 

DREAMING FOR MORE:

A PRESIDENTIAL REPORT

Presented by: Scott C. LaBarre, President, NFBCO

October 18, 2013

 

We are amidst the 13th year of this 21st Century and we are now embarking
upon the 59th year of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  For
many the number thirteen represents bad luck and impending doom.  However,
for the NFB of Colorado, this thirteenth year of our still young century has
been one of growth, celebration, accomplishment, and good fortune.  Despite
our successes, there is also much to remind us that we have not achieved our
ultimate goal of first class citizenship for the blind.  In the last year,
we have achieved new heights, but we dream for more.  We have made great
strides, but our march towards equality must continue.  Exactly how we will
chart the course ahead is unknown, but we do know that we have set ourselves
firmly on the road to first class citizenship and a life of true equality.
No force on Earth shall detour us and hold us back.  Our dream is within
reach and we shall make it come true.

 

COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND

 

In 1988, we made history by turning one of our dreams into reality.  Since
our inception, we have always wished for a day when every blind person would
have the kind of training and opportunity necessary to live life on his or
her own terms, not those prescribed by society's misconceptions about
blindness.  For decades, we struggled to change the existing rehabilitation
system for the blind.  Eventually we realized that we must take the future
of rehabilitation for the blind into our own hands.  So in January of 1988,
Diane McGeorge and a handful of other Federation leaders opened the Colorado
Center for the Blind.  At first, our Center lived week to week, more like
day by day.  Its existence and survival was an open question.  Funds were
scarce and opposition plenty.  

 

What a contrast that is from today.  Our Center now stands as an
international leader and the best model for how to deliver adjustment to
blindness training.  We are a strong, mature, and well-funded program.  We
continue to touch the lives of blind individuals from all over the world.
The Center is truly an application of our Federation philosophy to daily
life.  It is living proof that a life with blindness need not be one of
tragedy but rather one of limitless possibility.

 

Our Center succeeds because of the National Federation of the Blind.  Sure,
this affiliate has poured millions of dollars into the Center over its first
twenty-five years.  At times, Federation funding has been the difference
between keeping the doors open or shutting down.  More important than the
money, though, is the unwavering commitment of the NFB of Colorado to make
the Center grow and prosper.  It is our love and our philosophy that stand
as the true foundation of the Center's success.  Our Center has our eternal
support and backing.  We shall never stray from our commitment to the Center
because it represents everything for which we stand and thereby gives any
blind person touched by its programs the greatest opportunity to succeed.

 

On September 13, 2013, a very lucky day, we celebrated our Silver
Anniversary in style.  We held a wonderful open house celebration at our
building where Dr. Maurer, National President of the Federation, joined us
to salute our success; Mark Riccobono, Executive Director of the NFB
Jernigan Institute and a graduate of the CCB offered rides in the
Federation's blind drivable car; we unveiled Ann Cunningham's amazing
tactile and multisensory depiction of the beautiful Colorado front range
mountains; and we were joined by community and civic leaders adding their
congratulations.  The next day we enjoyed a gala dinner where current and
former students and staff delivered stirring and inspirations accounts of
how the CCB has changed their lives.  Tomorrow, we will hear more about the
Center's amazing first twenty-five years and speculate about how much more
we will accomplish by the time we celebrate our Golden Anniversary in 2038.
Before leaving this topic, I would be remiss if we did not acknowledge Diane
McGeorge's tremendous leadership, inspiration, and courage for founding and
sustaining the Center; Julie Deden's incredible leadership and boundless
capacity to keep growing the Center in new and innovative directions; the
current and former staff members who give the Center its quality, and, of
course, the current and former students who give the program life.  Let's
hear one giant, loud Federation roar for our CCB!

 

COLORADO DVR

 

Our relationship with the Colorado Division of Vocational Rehabilitation
(DVR) over the years has been quite diverse, to say the least.  The
relationship has gone from contentious to productive and everywhere in
between.  Over the last few years, we have enjoyed a generally positive
experience.  We don't always agree with DVR one hundred percent of the time
but we have had meaningful input and we are recognized as a key partner.
For example, recently, our First Vice President, Julie Deden, served on the
selection committee for the new DVR director.  

 

Right now, I feel we are at a critical juncture with DVR, for a couple of
reasons.  First of all, DVR has a new director.  You heard from her earlier
today.  We welcome Joelle Brouner to the post and we extend our sincere best
wishes and congratulations.  We also offer our cooperation and support.  We
are hopeful that we can work together to create new and improved
possibilities for the blind of our state.  

 

However, let it not be forgotten that we intend to hold DVR accountable.  We
have many concerns.  DVR is on an order of selection currently with hundreds
of individuals on a waiting list to receive services.  DVR has been moved
within the Department of Human Services from the Office of Economic Security
to the Office of Long Term Care.  To our way of thinking, vocational
rehabilitation should emphasize the economic security of its clients by
getting them training and education necessary to enter the workforce.  Long
Term Care smacks of lifelong dependence and reinforcement of the welfare
model for the blind and others with disabilities.  An even bigger problem is
the fact that DVR is several steps down in the bureaucracy of the Department
and does not have the profile necessary to maximize opportunities for its
consumers.  These are challenges we intend to address and overcome.

 

EDUCATE BLIND CHILDREN NOW

 

Last year, we created the Educate Blind Children Now Committee.  Kevan
Worley has been chairing this committee and has done important work to
improve our relationship with the Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind and
to work more effectively with teachers of blind children.  Progress is being
made on these fronts which we will address more fully later.  However, there
are a couple of specific items that must be mentioned.  Despite the fact
that this year's state convention is in Colorado Springs, home of the
Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind, and despite the fact that we have
extended invitations to the school to participate in this convention several
months ago, there is no participation at all from CSDB at the state's
largest gathering of blind persons.  Although we are working with CSDB on a
mentoring program and the school hosted one of our BELL programs last year,
we are concerned about the relationship we have with the school.  We intend
to meet with CSDB's leadership team and see if the relationship can become
far more meaningful.  We are steadfastly committed to the principal that
every blind child in Colorado has the right to expect that he or she can
reach his or her maximum potential.  We call upon CSDB to join us as a true
partner to secure this right.

 

I also want to take a moment to highlight another project of the Committee.
As you know, each third through twelfth grader in the state of Colorado
takes a state-wide assessment test known as TCAP.  Dr. Tanni Anthony and her
team at the Colorado Department of Education have worked vigorously to make
sure that blind students are able to take this paper and pencil test in an
accessible format under fair conditions.  Things are changing, however.
Colorado will be moving to a computer based assessment known as PARCC that
will be taken by all third through twelfth graders starting in the 2014 and
2015 school year.

 

Our main concern is that this computer based test is fully accessible to
blind and low vision students.  Currently, the prototype versions of it are
not.  The Federation's past experience is that the vast majority of these
computer exams do not work with the assistive technology used by the blind.
In June, Michelle Chacon, our NFBCO Treasurer and a teacher of blind
children, and I met with Joyce Zurkowski, Executive Director of Assessment
at the Colorado Department of Education to express our concern.  We left
that meeting with a commitment from the State that the exam will be
accessible.  We intend to hold the Department of Education to this promise
and to take action if the assessment is not fully accessible.  Although this
is a significant success, it does not address the problems we are
experiencing with accessible exams used by local school districts.  We will
work as hard and as long as necessary to insure that our blind children have
the same ability to demonstrate their level of learning as other children.

 

COLORADO STATE GOVERNMENT AND GOOGLE APPS

 

A year ago, I reported to you that Colorado State government intended to
have all of its employees switch over to Google Apps for Government to
conduct the vast majority of their computer work.  The problem with Google
Apps is that much of it is inaccessible with assistive technology.  If fully
implemented, Google Apps could have the effect of threatening the jobs of
many blind employees, like our very own Jon Deden, because they would be
unable to use the computer effectively and thereby become unproductive.  We
wrote a letter to Governor Hickenlooper advising that implementation of
Google Apps would violate the law.  We demanded accessibility and full
participation.  I am pleased to say that the State largely halted its
efforts to implement Google Apps and our blind state employees are able to
do their jobs effectively using preexisting tools.  It is also my
understanding that many schools throughout the state are attempting to
convert entirely to Google Apps.  To address this issue globally, we have
been working with Google nationally.  Google has sent engineers to work with
us at the National Center and earlier this year, Google hired Ray Kurzweil
to become its Director of Engineering.  As you know, Ray Kurzweil has been
working with the Federation since the 1970's to create accessible
technology.  One way or the other, we will make certain that Google Apps are
accessible and that blind employees and students will not be thrown out of
work or school because of a failure to comply with the law.  We will
absolutely not be caught on the wrong side of the digital divide!

 

KAREN NORTON

 

We face discrimination based on blindness in all walks of life, not just
employment and education.  Sometimes, we literally can't even get in the
front door.  The Federation, under Dr. tenBroek's leadership, introduced the
so-called white cane laws in the 1950's and 1960's.  These laws boldly
declared that the blind have the same right to public places as anyone else,
whether using a cane, a dog, or neither.  

 

Late last year, Karen Norton from Fort Collins had to visit Walden, Colorado
for her work and she had reserved an upgraded room at the North Park Inn.
Karen happens to use a guide dog to aid her independent travel.  When she
entered the hotel, the owner challenged by saying "didn't you see the sign?
It says no pets."  The owner refused to give her the upgraded room because
of the "pet policy" and tried to assign her to another, less desirable room
which also happened to be a smoking room, something which she very much did
not want.  Karen tried to explain that it is the law of this state that
blind persons are allowed to bring their guide dogs anywhere they go.  The
owner told her to leave and when she refused, he called the Jackson County
Sherriff.  Instead of enforcing Colorado Law, the officer who responded
ordered Karen to leave or she would be arrested and her dog impounded.  My
friends, if anyone tries to tell you that we no longer face blatant,
unadulterated discrimination, tell them about Karen Norton.

 

We have filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division and we
will not rest until justice is done.  We will teach the hotel owner that all
guests are welcome, even the blind, and we will teach the Sherriff a thing
or two about the law.

 

FIGHTING FOR FAIR WAGES

 

Last year, I reported to you that the NFB of Colorado had participated in
two informational protests against Goodwill and its practice of paying
workers with disabilities less than the minimum wage.  Those protests
brought us hundreds of thousands of media impressions and further our
campaign.  This year, we have continued our advocacy in the halls of
Congress through our support of H.R. 831, the Fair Wages for Workers with
Disabilities Act, which would eliminate the practice of paying subminimum
wages over time and our opposition to proposed Section 511 of the
Rehabilitation Act which would grant payment of subminimum wages a more
legitimate status as an acceptable outcome for a rehab client.
Representative Ed Perlmutter of Colorado has cosponsored H.R. 831 and
recently, Kevan Worley, Anil Lewis, and I met with Senator Bennet and his
chief staff members about these issues.  He pledged to help us find a new
way to proceed on this issue and get around the log jam we currently face.
We will not rest until every worker with a disability has the same right as
any other American, the right to earn a fair wage.     

 

MARRAKESH TREATY

 

We are not only changing the world through our Colorado Center for the
Blind.  Members of the NFB of Colorado are helping to end the book famine
faced by the blind.  Less than one percent of published works are turned
into accessible copies, creating a great dearth of information for the blind
of our world.  Part of the problem is that in the vast majority of countries
in the world, anyone who wants to take a book and turn it into an accessible
format copy like Braille, audio, or accessible electronic text must go to
the publisher and get permission to do so.  It often takes way too long or,
sometimes, permission is never granted.  That is why some of the world's
countries have adopted exceptions and limitations to copyright law that
allow books to be put into accessible formats without the permission of the
copyright holder.  We have such a law here in the U.S., the Chaffee
Amendment.  The other big problem has been the fact that even if you
produced an accessible format copy in one country, you could not share that
copy across international borders.  That all changed when the international
community, through the World Intellectual Property Organization, adopted the
Marrakesh Treaty To Facilitate Access To Published Works For Persons Who Are
Blind, Visually Impaired, Or Otherwise Print Disabled.  Once the Nations of
the world start ratifying this treaty, a great deal more information will
start flowing across international borders for the blind.  

 

We, here in Colorado played an important role in getting the Marrakesh
Treaty adopted.  As most of you know, I have had the honor and privilege of
being the chief NFB delegate to WIPO since 2009.  However, what many of you
may not know is that in June of this year, many of our members donated
significant time and effort recording their stories about the importance of
literacy and what the treaty would mean to them.  These real life accounts
were seen all over the world and helped us put pressure on the various
rights holders and industries who were opposing the treaty.  On Sunday
morning of this convention, we will review some of these inspiring accounts.
The work of the NFB of Colorado will forever be imprinted upon the fabric of
the Marrakesh Treaty.

 

RINGING THE BELL

 

For the third year, we operated a BELL Camp.  BELL stands for Braille
Enrichment through Literacy and Learning.  This two week summer camp offers
blind children, ages five through twelve, an immersion into Braille
instruction and several other independence skills such as cane travel and
daily living, not to mention a bunch of fun activities like horseback
riding, swimming, and scavenger hunts.  Once again, Diane McGeorge and
Michelle Chacon led a wonderful team who gave our BELL kids a tremendous
summer education.  At the beginning of camp, many of the children let their
parents do just about everything for them.  By the end, the kids are
insisting that their parents let them take care of themselves.  Tomorrow, we
will have a full report on the 2013 BELL Camp complete with a video we have
produced about the program.  The BELL rings loudly and clearly in Colorado.

 

CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT AND THREE NEW CHAPTERS

 

Last year, we hired Jessica Beecham to serve as our Chapter and Community
Development Coordinator and she is doing her job very well.  In the first
eight months of this year, we created three new chapters of the NFB.  In
June, we welcomed the Poudre Valley Chapter to our family with Nick Thomas
being elected as our first Poudre Valley President.  In July, we created the
Colorado Association of Guide Dog Users with Melissa Green being elected to
serve as its first President.  And on August 24, 2013, the Aurora Chapter
joined our ranks with Wayne Marshall being chosen as the first President of
that chapter.  Our new chapters are helping us reach new members and
allowing the Federation philosophy to reach new minds and hearts.  Hats off
to Jessica and our new chapters!

 

CHAPTER HIGHLIGHTS

 

It is through our local chapters that we reach our members on the most local
and frequent basis.  I want to share a few highlights of how our chapters
and divisions are changing what it means to be blind. 

 

Recently, the Denver Chapter scored a major victory when the Regional 

Transportation District (RTD) finally implemented the Automated Stop
Announcement system.  Using GPS, this system automatically announces each
bus stop in a clear, easy to hear voice.  Since 1992, the Americans with
Disabilities Act has mandated that these bus stops be announced but we have
struggled for over two decades to get even minimal compliance.  This new
system takes human inconsistency out of the equation and stops are announced
regularly and clearly.  It is the NFB of Denver who never gave up on this
project and got the job done.  Now, we need to advocate for similar systems
all throughout the state.  

 

Under Jeanette Fortin's tremendous leadership, our Colorado Springs Chapter
has grown by thirty percent in the last year and has participated in several
community events spreading the Federation philosophy.  I also want to thank
the C. Springs Chapter for hosting this year's convention!

 

Earlier this year, Cody Bair became the President of our Greeley Chapter and
led the effort to put on the chapter's New Perspectives Expo at the
University of Northern Colorado, reaching new individuals and the potential
teachers of the blind.  

 

Mike Massey, our capable President in Pueblo, has directed the Pueblo
Chapter through several fundraisers, participation in disability awareness
fairs and an information table at Wal-Mart during Meet the Blind Month.  

 

Our new Aurora Chapter has doubled in size since its first meeting and will
disseminate information about blindness this month at the Aurora Mall.  

 

Our Mile High Chapter with Gary van Dorn at the helm has held several
fundraisers including a wine and chocolate tasting and a night at the Denver
Center for the Performing Arts.  These fund raisers have helped people
travel to national and state conventions and have supported our BELL Camp.  

 

Michelle Chacon has led our North Metro Chapter to another great year where
the chapter has raised substantial funds with its wine tasting at Spirro's
Winery and other fundraisers allowing the Chapter to send several people to
national and state conventions, and to send Elizabeth and Emily Romero to
Baltimore for our NFB STEM X event, an intensive seminar exploring math and
science for blind youth.  

 

Our Parent's Chapter under the leadership of Everett Romero continues to
grow and has put on several events such as a large picnic for parents and
blind children in the summer and it publishes the E-Connector on a monthly
basis.  

 

The Seniors Division sponsors support groups all over the area and works
with the CCB to empower blind seniors in a variety of ways including
teaching assistive technology.  Marie Dambrosky, for example, is mastering
the iPad at the tender age of 94.

 

In this report, there just is not enough time to tell you about everything
that our chapters are doing.  This does not diminish their importance,
however.  Our fifteen chapters and divisions serve as the backbone of this
affiliate.  We will hear from all of them on Sunday morning.

 

THANK YOU AND CONCLUSION

 

As I conclude this report, I must say thank you. First, if it weren't for
the support and love of my family, Anahit, Alexander and Emily, there is no
way I could serve as President of this wonderful affiliate. Thank you
LaBarres!  Second, I thank all of our officers and board members. You are an
awesome team with whom I have the pleasure and honor to serve. Third, I want
to thank our staff, Lisa Bonderson, Jessica Beecham, and Lorinda Riddle for
helping us manage this terrific organization. Last, and most definitely not
least, I thank all of you for your support and loyalty. It is only through
all of our work together that we can truly change what it means to be blind.

 

As many of you know, this year is the 50th anniversary of Dr. King's 

"I Have a Dream" Speech.   The corresponding media coverage gave me 

the opportunity to hear that amazing rhetoric again.  It left me in a mood
of reflection.  The fact that we have made great progress in achieving
equality and freedom for the blind is undeniable.  The fact that we still
face tremendous barriers is equally undeniable.  When will we be judged on
the content of our character and not the existence of our disability?  The
answer to that question is in our hands.  We know that a life with blindness
need not be one of tragedy.  First-class citizenship is no longer just a
fanciful dream. It shall become our reality. We have touched the flame of
freedom and it has ignited our hearts and minds. Let us join those hearts,
minds, and our collective action together and march the rest of the way to
true freedom.   This is our mission.  This is our Federation, and this is my
report to you!

 

 

An Email From the First Vice President of the National Federation of the
Blind

By: Dr. Fredrick K. Schroeder

 

>From the Editor: Dr. Fred Schroeder has served as First Vice President of
the NFB for many years. He has been a pioneer in work for the blind over
more than 3 decades. During the late 1990's Dr. Schroeder served as
Commissioner of the Federal Rehabilitation Services Administration. He
currently serves as visiting professor at San Diego State University, among
other posts. Of special interests to Coloradans, Dr. Schroeder serves on the
Board of the Colorado Center for the Blind.  Typically, the Blind Coloradan
does not publish items which may be thought of as more "National in nature".
We choose to concentrate our focus on Federation activities here in
Colorado. However, as you will see from Fred's email, this announcement has
great significance for every blind person in America. We received this email
the morning of December 2nd. Here it is:

 

Friends:

Over the weekend I participated in a meeting of the Board of Directors of

The National Federation of the Blind. The meeting was held at our National
Headquarters in Baltimore.

 

As you know, Dr. Marc Maurer has been our national president since 1986. He
has served as president longer than any of our previous presidents, and has
guided us through a period of unprecedented growth and change. It was under
Dr. Maurer's leadership that we established the Jernigan Institute and all
of the programs that have been so successful in demonstrating the truth of
our assertion that when given proper opportunity and training, blind people
can live and work as others.

 

In particular we have developed many programs designed to provide blind
children and youth with the skills and confidence they need to compete fully
in their education, and to develop their life ambitions. We have conducted
the Youth Slam, Science Academy, and more recently the BELL programs.

 

In the area of technology under Dr. Maurer's leadership we developed the
KNFB Reader Mobile, allowing blind people to have immediate access to print
with nothing more than a cell phone and special software. And then there was
the Blind Driver Challenge. There is no question that lack of access to
reliable transportation remains a major barrier for blind people. Yet, the
Blind Driver Challenge showed that we could develop the technology to enable
a blind person to drive a car, not simply sit passively in a car that drives
itself.

 

These are the expressions of Dr. Maurer's leadership. Yet at the heart of
his leadership are his spirit and his belief in every blind person. He has
inspired and encouraged us, faced the most difficult challenges with
resolution and strength, and he has kept us together, and never let us
waiver in our belief in our own right to live normal, productive lives.

 

On Saturday afternoon, November 30, Dr. Maurer told the board that it is his
intention to not seek reelection to the presidency next summer at our
national convention. He feels the time is right to transition to the next
president, the next individual who can lead us for a quarter century or
more. Dr. Maurer is in good health and believes that it is important that he
step down from the presidency while he is able to assist with the
transition. Dr.

Maurer told the board that he, Dr. Maurer, plans to support Mr. Mark
Riccobono as the next president of the National Federation of the Blind.

 

Mr. Riccobono presently serves as the Executive Director of the Jernigan
Institute. He is an accomplished individual with the strength and wisdom to
assume the serious responsibility of leading our movement. He has brought to
his work the imagination and competency we demand from our president.

 

We are truly fortunate that within the Federation we have individuals who
are able and willing to give all they have to furthering our move toward
true equality. The demands of the NFB presidency are unimaginable. We
require our leader to give all of his time, all of his imagination, and all
of his personal reserve of judgment to leading our organization. This is
what Dr. Maurer has done for the past 27 and a half years, and it is what
Mark Riccobono will do for the time of his presidency.

 

The transition brings to an end one chapter in our history and what a
glorious chapter it has been. We cannot face the loss of Dr. Maurer's
leadership without a sense of sadness; but the transition to a new president
is not just the absence of what we had before. The transition heralds a new
chapter in our history and with it, new opportunities- the chance to take
all that has come before and build something bigger and more powerful than
we have ever known.

In Memoriam

 

>From the Editor: The National Federation of the Blind of Colorado has an
Educate Blind Kids Now Committee. It is very engaged. We know of the need to
recruit more teachers of visually impaired students. Our support for
Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind mentoring programs, our ever growing
BELL Summer Programs, and Science Technology Engineering and Math, STEM,
demonstrations at the CCB are only a few of the ways we support the
education of blind kids. Those of us who care about celebrating Braille took
note of a great loss this fall. On Tuesday, October 1 the world lost a great
man. Dr. Abraham Nemeth was a teacher, thinker, inventor, musician, mentor,
and friend to thousands. Dr. Nemeth died at the age of 94 at his Detroit
home. He invented a unique Braille code which bears his name. The Nemeth
Code makes it practical for blind people all over the world to do simple or
complex computations for math, science and engineering. It's true. Some
blind people do those things and are quite competent. They do them, in part,
due to the effort of a wonderful, witty, quirky blind man named Abraham
Nemeth. I first heard the term "Nemeth Code" in the second grade. You can
bet that I was in awe when I actually met the man himself many years later,
realizing that he was a real blind intellect of the 20th Century. I had the
great privilege to dine with Dr. Nemeth a number of times. He was caring,
creative, and always curious. I use the Nemeth Code every day. When learning
of his passing I was filled with more sadness than I would have imagined.
There aren't many people who can say they invented something so innovative,
practical, and impacting that it carried their name. Nemeth did. He knew of
the Code's significance. He was proud but humble. When observing some blind
children meeting Dr. Nemeth I was struck by how excited they were. I found
the fact that they were drawn to him compelling. It's rare that a child has
the opportunity to meet a legend. When Nemeth lived he gave that opportunity
to many blind kids. Unlike the transient thrill of meeting a sports hero or
celebrity, rare as that is for most of us, Nemeth was accessible. He was a
living legend of letters. He was an inventor of something tangible, special,
meaningful. A thing blind people use every day. And he was a blind guy. When
meeting him there seemed to be a special connection. He was one of us yet on
a different plane. That's the only way I can explain it. He is now gone but
his code lives on. Thanks Doc. 

 

 

In the Family

A Book Release Announcement

By: Rebekah Felix

 

>From the Editor: Rebekah Felix, we know her as Bekah, is an active member of
our Colorado Springs Chapter. She is a freshman at Pikes Peak Community
College. She intends to transfer to Colorado Christian University. Here is
Bekah's announcement:

         

Have you ever wondered if a blind person could write and publish a book?
Well, the answer is of course! And I'm living proof! I have successfully
written a novel, In the Family, and it is available now! The coolest part is
the main character, Aliyah, because she's blind! 

          

Aliyah is tired of her fellow classmates teasing her because of her
blindness. Her only friend, Kyra, is afraid to make her relationship with
Aliyah obvious to her friends for fear that it might ruin her reputation.
But when Aliyah realizes she has a secret admirer, Hayden, her world turns
upside down.

 

As they head towards the end of their senior year of high school, Aliyah
begins to fall in love for the first time. She becomes part of Hayden's
group. But as she begins to discover some of Hayden's family secrets, many
unique situations arise that threaten to ruin all of her friendships for
good.

 

Can Aliyah and her friends learn to look past physical traits and focus on
what really matters? Can they learn to love themselves, love each other, and
love God the way the Bible instructs before they lose each other for good?

          

There are many different ways to find out! For print readers, In the Family
is available in paperback and hard cover formats, and they are in large
print. You can find these versions at Amazon.com or Barnes&Noble.com. 

 

In the Family is also available in several digital formats. Some of which
are accessible. On booklocker.com, you can find the e-book in large print.
You can also find it in Blio, Kindle, Nook, and iBooks. If you want to find
my book, look for In the Family by Rebekah Felix, or go to
<http://www.bekahfelix.tripod.com> bekahfelix.tripod.com. 

 

 

Quality CCTV's from and for the Visually Impaired:

A Colorado Company Making its Mark

 

>From the Editor: It's always inspiring to highlight a company which is
locally owned. A company owned by a blind entrepreneur. A company owned by a
member of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado Springs. Such is
the case with MagniSight and CEO Brian Smith. 

 

Founded in 1990, MagniSight is the longest running manufacturer of video
magnifiers (CCTV's) for the visually impaired in the United States.
MagniSight products are assembled in Colorado Springs, Colorado and are sold
throughout the U.S. and overseas to both individuals and agencies. Brian
Smith says, "One of our proudest achievements was supplying America's
visually impaired veterans with our products for many years under the
National V.A. contract."  

 

Brian further explains, "When I founded MagniSight, my goal was to
manufacture equipment that would really make a difference in the lives of
visually impaired people.  This was especially important to me since, at an
early age, I myself was diagnosed with a juvenile form of Macular
Degeneration.  Today, MagniSight continues to fulfill that goal by combining
a unique understanding of low vision with the latest technology." For more
information about MagniSight products and services readers should visit
<http://www.magnisight.com> www.magnisight.com. You can reach Brian at (800)
753-4767. 

 

 

 

A HOLIDAY QUOTE FROM THE BLIND COLORADAN

 

"It's good to be children sometimes. And never better than at Christmas,
when it's mighty Founder was a child himself." -Dickens

 

 

Blind Buzz

 

>From the Editor: Blind Buzz is a column which will have announcements,
notes, vignettes, profiles, assertions, snap-shots, rumors, innuendo and
observations. Blind Buzz is solely responsible for the content. What's
happening? Blind Buzz wants to know.

 

A visit from the Commissioner

On November 13, the newly appointed Commissioner of the Rehabilitation
Services Administration of the United States Department of Education toured
the Colorado Center for the Blind. She came with 44 directors and managers
from State Programs across the Nation. Students told their stories of
challenge, hope, and determination. The tour was part of the National
Council of State Agencies for the Blind Conference held at the Denver Grand
Hyatt. 

 

Again with the sharks? 

Blind kids seem to love dissecting sharks. Wouldn't you? Colorado Center for
the Blind seems to enjoy helping them do it. In November, over 30 middle
school and high school students from the Denver metro area had an
opportunity to learn about and dissect dogfish sharks.  Thanks to Arapahoe
Community College and Terry Harrison, chair of the biology department, blind
students learned that they could fully handle all aspects of the dissection

 

Amazing Travel Raffle

Congratulations to Jerry Adams. He won our 2013 Amazing Travel Raffle. His
daughter, Gina Bullard, bought the ticket for his birthday gift. Gina is a
NFBCO Springs chapter member. Dad now has $3,500 to travel anywhere he
wishes. That's the second year in a row Colorado Springs sold the winning
ticket. Happy Birthday dad! 

 

Brenda Mosby continues her journey

After more than 6 years, Brenda Mosby, a member of our Mile High chapter,
has announced that she is leaving the Colorado Center for the Blind where
she has been providing vocation and employment service. She intends to
continue her counseling and community work for EEI. 

 

Blind entrepreneurs unite

Colorado Association of Blind Merchants reorganized at the recent NFBCO
State Convention. Bradley Basta was elected President. Joy Lynn Nelson
organized the group's Christmas Party. It was held December 7 at the
Cheesecake Factory downtown Denver. It also happened to be President Basta's
birthday. We can't report everything that went on at the party, but we know
the group raised some bucks for the affiliate. 

 

Colorado native to direct BLIND Inc.

In the Summer 2011 issue of the Blind Coloradan, we brought you an update on
the Wenzel family. They were part of our Colorado Federation family for many
years.  At that time, Dan was managing State Programs for the blind in
Wisconsin. Prior to his work in Wisconsin, Dan served as assistant director
at the Colorado Center for the Blind and as a Board Member for the NFB of
Colorado. Dan is one of our best.  The Buzz has now picked up big news. Dan
Wenzel has accepted the position of Executive Director of BLIND, Inc. in
Minneapolis, one of our three NFB training centers.  He believes deeply in
the work of the Federation and in our training centers as an expression of
the Federation. He is currently working as manager of youth services at
Blind Industries and Services of Maryland.  

 

What's the buzz at the Colorado School for the Deaf and Blind

Kiddos and staff are on Holiday break. On December 11, NFBCO began our
2013/14 blind mentoring program. On December 12, the school held it's very
popular Winter Program. On January 30, it will be time for another Braille
challenge event. April will bring the annual employment fair. NFBCO role
models will be a part of this event. It's all about the kids. 

 

Elections bring change in Denver chapter

We receive the following from Brent Batron: 

I wanted to give everyone an update on the recent elections of the National
Federation of the Blind of Denver.

 

President - Tom Anderson

1st Vice President - Antonio Rozier

2nd Vice President - Maureen Nietfeld

Secretary - Jennifer Spears

Treasurer - Suzie Drum

Board Member - John Batron

Board Member - Dishon Spears

Board Member - Jim Pilkington

Board Member - Beth Allred

 

It has been a pleasure to be president of this wonderful chapter and I have
served in that capacity since 2006.  I am so pleased that Tom has been
elected and I know that he will do great things as the newly elected
president.  Congratulations to the new board

 

>From the Buzz inbox

A graduate of the Colorado Center for the Blind writes "when I was a child,
I was never allowed to decorate the Christmas tree. It was just assumed that
my siblings would do it. So, for me, attending CCB where I actually cut down
a Christmas tree was truly a life transforming experience." -Anonymous. 

 

Gary Van Dorn honored

On December 5, NFB Mile High chapter President Gary Van Dorn was presented
the Paul Bilzi Award for community service from the Colorado
Cross-Disability Coalition. Paul Bilzi was paralyzed after an automobile
accident. He spent many years avoiding people with disabilities. Ultimately,
he became a champion and long-time leader of the Denver community of people
with disabilities. Congratulations Gary for your steadfast commitment to
bringing highest quality transit services to all people in the Denver-metro
area.  

 

Journey of success

The lead article in the December Braille Monitor was written by our own
Julie Deden. It celebrates 25 years at the Colorado Center for the Blind. It
is well worth a read. Congratulations to Julie and the team. You truly have
helped hundreds reach new heights of independence. 

 

The Colorado way

It's the way of strength, character, and camaraderie found in our affiliate.
Those qualities are envied around the nation. In early January, NFBCO
leaders will participate in a seminar at the Jernigan Institute. Our leaders
will mentor and share strategies for success which have worked in Colorado.
However, in true Federation fashion, our NFBCO Board will gain as much as it
gives. That's the Federation way.  

 

The New Year means making National Convention reservations

The Buzz has the skinny on this summer's National Federation of the Blind
convention. For many of us it's like our annual family reunion. The
convention will take place July 1-6 in Orlando, Florida at the Rosen Centre
Hotel. Room rates are unbelievably low! This is a first class facility.
Double rooms are $82.00, triples and quads $88.00 plus 13.5 percent tax.
Make reservations beginning January 1 by calling 800-244-7234. For more
details, keep checking the Braille Monitor. Make plans now to attend. You
won't be sorry. 

 

The NFB Scholarship Program invites blind students who will attend college
in Fall 2014 to apply for a scholarship

The National Federation of the Blind offers 30 awards, worth from $3,000 up
to $12,000, plus assistance for the 30 winners to attend the July 2014
Annual Convention in Orlando, Florida. For full information and the online
application form, go to www.nfb.org/scholarships.  Deadline: 3-31-14.

 

What's the deal? 

What's the deal with silly string competition at Colorado Springs chapter?
One never knows what fun might break out at a NFB chapter Christmas party.
Hold the hairspray, bring on the silly string! 

 

Boulder Valley conducts training for professionals

We have this from Boulder Valley Chapter President Maryann Migliorelli: 

On November 13, the Boulder Valley Chapter conducted the first in a series
of in-service workshops at Boulder Manor.  We presented blindness
technologies, from canes and Braille to iPhones, and the latest adapted
medical equipment, along with an in-depth discussion of current and
appropriate attitudes of blindness.  The dozen physical, cognitive, and
occupational therapists who attended learned many new things, but most
importantly, they learned what a valuable resource the National Federation
of the Blind is.

 

Feel the buzz! Go to a local chapter meeting

Below find a list of chapter meeting times and locations. Occasionally,
circumstance may dictate a change in time or location. You may wish to check
with your chapter president. You can also call Jessica Beecham, she usually
has the scoop. 

 

 

At Large Chapter

When:        4th Tuesday of the month

Time:          7:00 p.m.

Where:       Telephonically

                  Call-in phone number: 712-432-1500 / Access code 564151#

 

Aurora Chapter

When:        4th Saturday of the month

Time:         10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.

Where:       Fire Station #11

                   2291 S Joliet

                  Aurora, CO 80010

 

Boulder Valley Chapter

When:        4th Saturday of the month  

Time:          11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.

Where:       The Egg and I

                   2574 Baseline Road

                   Boulder, CO 80305

 

Colorado Springs Chapter

When:        2nd Saturday of the month

Time:         10:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.

Where:       Garden Ranch YMCA

       2380 Montebello Drive West
       Colorado Springs, CO  80918 

*Special note* We are informed by Jeanette Fortin, Colorado Springs Chapter
President, that in January the chapter will meet on January 4 to hold annual
elections and celebrate the birthday of Louis Braille. In February the
chapter returns to its regular 2nd Saturday schedule.

 

Denver Chapter

When:        3rd Saturday of the month

Time:         10:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.

Where:       Colorado Center for the Blind

                   2233 W. Shepperd Avenue

                   Littleton, CO  80120

 

 

 

Greeley Chapter

When:        3rd Saturday of the month  

Time:          12:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.

Where:       Greeley Senior Activity Center

                   1010 6th Street

                   Greeley, CO  80631

 

Mile High Chapter

When:        3rd Wednesday of the month

Time:          5:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m.

Where:       Brooks Towers 

                   1020 15th Street 

                   Denver, CO  80202

 

North Metro Denver Chapter

When:        2nd Saturday of the month

Time:         1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.

Where:       10324 W 62nd Avenue (residence of chapter president)

                  Arvada, CO  80004

 

Poudre Valley Chapter

When:        1st Saturday of the month

Time:          12:30 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.

Where:       Old Chicago's 

                   147 S College Avenue

                   Fort Collins, CO 80524

 

Pueblo Chapter

When:        2nd Saturday of the month  

Time:          1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.

Where:       Wesley Methodist Church

                   85 Stanford Avenue

                   Pueblo, CO  81005

 

 

 

 

Resolutions Passed at the

2013 State Convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

>From the Editor: Each year at our State Convention the Federation
deliberates over and typically passes a number of Resolutions. These
Resolutions become the policy statements of our organization.  In effect,
these are the official planks of our platform. Below are statements of our
resolve to take actions necessary to redefine blindness in Colorado and
beyond.

 

Resolution 2013-01

Regarding the Implementation of the Regional Transportation Districts Work
and Implementation of the Automated Stop Announcement System

 

WHEREAS, the Regional Transportation District (RTD) initiated Automated Stop
Announcements (ASA) on all its local, limited and regional routes within the
past month and a half, which will make traveling on all routes within the
2,400 square miles of RTD easier for all blind and low vision Coloradans and
visitors to Colorado; and

 

WHEREAS, conventions of the NFBCO passed Resolutions 2005-04 and 2006-05 to
encourage Colorado Transit Companies to announce transit stops and install
ASA: Now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED, by the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in
Convention assembled this twentieth day of October, 2013, in the city of
Colorado Springs, Colorado, that the NFBCO applauds RTD for working
partnership with us and working diligently throughout the implementation of
ASA; and 

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, the NFBCO extends a special thank you to Eric
Farrington and his staff at RTD for their professionalism and willingness to
work with the NFBCO to implement all our suggestions for ASA, up to and
including, the voice used for ASA, the cadence and volume of the voice, and
the nuances of how the announcements are pronounced; and 

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, the NFBCO encourages RTD to continue reaching out to
the NFBCO on other projects and elements of transportation such as,
paratransit, Transit Oriented Development (TOD), budget, route development,
Light Rail, Commuter Rail, accessibility on all RTDs services, Smart Card
implementation, and other future developments which make RTD a world-class
multi modal transit agency; and

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the NFBCO encourages other transit agencies
throughout Colorado, and the nation, to work with the NFBCO and RTD on the
implementation of ASA on its buses as soon as possible to allow blind and
low vision riders to more effectively use its systems.  

 

Resolution 2013-02

Regarding RTD's Smart Card System

 

WHEREAS, Denver's Regional Transportation District (RTD) has begun deploying
a smart card system which allows passengers to pay for bus and train fares
by electronically charging a smart card with the amount chosen by the
passenger; and

 

WHEREAS, it is RTD's intent to eliminate paper tickets and passes and
replace same with these smart cards; and

 

WHEREAS, the kiosks which passengers use to select their fares and perform
other functions related to the cards are inaccessible to blind individuals
due to the fact that the nonvisual access solutions chosen by RTD are
ineffective; and

 

WHEREAS, the NFB has repeatedly advised RTD that its solutions are wholly
ineffective; and

 

WHEREAS, RTD has callously ignored the Federation's input, a perplexing and
disturbing circumstance given the fact that RTD has interacted productively
with the Federation on other projects such as the automated stop
announcement now in place; and

 

WHEREAS, the inaccessibility of the smart card system constitutes a
violation of federal and state law: Now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in
Convention assembled this twentieth day of October, 2013, in the city of
Colorado Springs, Colorado, that we condemn and deplore the Regional
Transportation District for the cavalier manner in which it has handled the
accessibility of the smart card system and for its disregard of the law; and


 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we call upon RTD to make the smart card system
fully accessible to the blind immediately; and

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we urge RTD to work closely with us, as it has
done on other projects, to identify and implement the proper accessibility
solution; and 

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that if RTD fails to make the smart card system fully
accessible within a reasonable time, this organization shall take whatever
legal or political action necessary to force RTD to comply with the law and
provide full accessibility to blind passengers. 

 

Resolution 2013-03

Regarding Accessibility of Freestyle Touch Screen Vending Machines 

 

WHEREAS, Colorado-based Noodles and Company, Burger King, and large
government institutions have begun to place Coca-Cola freestyle machines
offering consumers hundreds of choices through touch screen technologies
which are not accessible to blind and print disabled customers; and

 

WHEREAS, while sighted customers are granted numerous choices for self
service soft drinks with their meal purchase, the touch screen nature of the
selection buttons on freestyle machines makes it difficult if not impossible
for a blind user to independently make even a random selection and serve him
or herself without requesting assistance; and

 

WHEREAS, such machines with multiple choices are possible thanks to the
power of small computer processers; and 

 

WHEREAS, the cost of speech technologies is increasingly inexpensive and
easily incorporated into the electronics of such machines, and is always
cheaper and easier to implement when accessibility is a priority in the
process of design: Now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in
Convention assembled this twentieth day of October, 2013, in the city of
Colorado Springs, Colorado, that this organization call upon the National
Automatic Merchandising Association, soft drink manufacturers, major vending
manufacturers such as Crane and U Select It to take immediate steps to
deploy speech technologies so that all customers can access product
information and enjoy refreshing beverages on equal terms and independently.

 

Resolution 2013-04

Regarding Commending the Work of The Independence Center of Colorado Springs

 

WHEREAS, the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado exists to be the
voice of the blind of Colorado striving to ensure security, equality, self
determination, and independence for the blind of Colorado; and

 

WHEREAS, since its inception 59 years ago, the National Federation of the
Blind of Colorado has exhibited a spirit and emulated a philosophy best
articulated by the first President of the National Federation of the Blind, 

Dr. Jacobus tenBroek, widely considered to be the father of the disability
rights movement; and 

 

WHEREAS, long before advocates for the Americans with Disabilities Act, the
NFB of Colorado had begun laying the groundwork for independence, equality,
and opportunity for people who are blind or otherwise disabled; and

 

WHEREAS, The Independence Center, located in Colorado Springs, Colorado, has
as its mission to work with people with disabilities, their families and the
community, to create independence so that all may thrive; and

 

WHEREAS, The Independence Center shares the NFBCO's commitment to the civil
rights of the disabled and the role models at The Independence Center sit,
stand, or lie at the point where people with disabilities decide whether to
create the life they desire or give in and resign themselves to society's
reduced expectations; and

 

WHEREAS, The Independence Center is not a Social Services organization but
an empowerment and learning community striving everyday to create a society
where people with disabilities will be accepted, employed, and welcomed; and

 

WHEREAS, The Independence Center has had an open door policy toward the
people and philosophy of the National Federation of the Blind; hiring
competent blind individuals, encouraging consumers to learn about the
activities of the NFB of Colorado Springs chapter, and promoting a shared
philosophy: Now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in
Convention assembled this twentieth day of October, 2013, in the city of
Colorado Springs, Colorado, that this organization commend The Independence
Center for its steadfast commitment to independent living, civil rights, and
equality of opportunity; and

 

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
stand ready to work in collaboration with The Independence Center on
community projects of mutual benefit to include employment, access
technology, and transportation.

 

Resolution 2013-05

Regarding Proper Location of the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation in
the State of Colorado Governing Structure

 

WHEREAS, the Colorado Division of Vocational Rehabilitation is the unit in
state government with a mandate to assist persons with disabilities to
succeed at work and live independently; and


WHEREAS, its principle focus is one of vocational training and employment
outcomes for people with disabilities; and

 

WHEREAS, the blind of Colorado strive to be a part of a mainstream
integrated workplace supporting the economic development of the state; and

 

WHEREAS, a recent reorganization of the Colorado Department of Human
Services now finds the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation under the
Agency know as "Long Term Care" within the Department of Human Services; and

WHEREAS, Coloradans requiring services under the Division are, generally
speaking, not seeking services in any way resembling long term care; and

 

WHEREAS, while a government entity charged with the provision of oversight
of long term care is meritorious and necessary, it is inconsistent with the
mission of vocational rehabilitation; and

 

WHEREAS, housing an agency responsible for greater economic possibilities
and social integration of the blind within an agency for long term care
sends the wrong message about the capacity of people with disabilities to
consumers themselves, the general public, and employers: Now, therefore,

 

BE IT RESOLVED by the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado in
convention assembled this twentieth day of October, 2013, in the city of
Colorado Springs, Colorado, that this organization strongly urge Governor
John Hickenlooper, The General Assembly, and The Executive Director of the
Colorado Department of Human Services, Reggie Bicha to take such action as
necessary to immediately transfer the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation
to the Office of Economic Security.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading The Blind Coloradan, Holiday Issue 2013. Errors,
assumptions, or omissions should be brought to the attention of the editor
who will likely blame Blind Buzz for any mistakes. Happy Holidays!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Dec 24 16:39:04 2013
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 09:39:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Coloradan Again
Message-ID: <050001cf00c6$a8da5800$fa8f0800$@labarrelaw.com>

Hi Folks, when I saw my message come through, it had a whole bunch of
extraneous attachments.  Hopefully, this one won't.  Attached should be the
Blind Coloradan for Holiday 2013.

 

Best,

Scott

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From trising at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec 24 17:22:04 2013
From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on 
the time of year. I also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn Braille music. I read Braille at 300 words 
per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the 
letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D 
and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of 
benefit. Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since 
the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox 



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 17:41:33 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:41:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbPKG3HTpiiRrNBdUwcOKSEq=pLBFeOyUBUO4Ab0KQ6eA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am a college music major who uses braille music a lot.  here is what
I did to get over this issue.

When I was just learning, a blind woman I knew in my area made me a
chart.  It listed each note in the diatonic scale from C to B in each
rhythmic value.  Eighth notes were one row, quarters were another,
half notes were next, and then whole notes.  She included the signs
for the rests and flat and sharp, along with the piano hand symbols at
the bottom.  Each row was separated by a line of dots 3 and 6 to
separate the rows.  She instructed me to read the chart a lot, and to
consult it when I was reading braille music.  It is important to not
think of literary braille when you're doing this.  Learning the music
code is just like learning any other code of braille; there are only
so many combinations of 6 dots.  Nemeth uses some of the same symbols
too and these symbols have different meanings, but you just need to
approach it in a different context.

Another trick I used on my own was to just go backwards a letter in
the alphabet to the corresponding note name.  If you do this enough it
can help you remember that what looks like a literary D is actually a
C, what looks like a literary G is really an F, etc.  It's correcting
yourself.

The biggest thing is just to do these things and practice reading
braille music.  It can be hard at first, but there is a method to the
madness that makes sense over time.

HTH.

On 12/24/13, trising at sbcglobal.net <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello:
>
>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on
> the time of year. I also do as much solo work as possible. I would really
> like to learn Braille music. I read Braille at 300 words
> per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds,
> but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
> letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music. For
> instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D
> and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got high
> grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
> benefit. Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille
> as Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since
> the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!
>
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From leyeshprintse at inbox.com  Tue Dec 24 18:08:05 2013
From: leyeshprintse at inbox.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Leye-Shprintse_=C3=96berg?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:08:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<blu406-eas41dd49d95e5b741f454ec4f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<c86f7373b1594859a02349ce9f8c9a5c@mistybradleypc>
	<blu172-ds5953a433c5e20f686e768f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<5cfe180310da4ff393a635e70dda80fd@mistybradleypc>
	<blu172-ds6aa6b6cf5ce511b70af61f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<cajcyh69kjgp1nh3qqx0q4ci7phzn3qtfhutrdy-m+jqbtl2wrq@mail.gmail.com>
	<9f5314abf463447bbf6984923c72b740@ownerpc>
	<blu406-eas1251b2778f73682e7be6efff5c60@phx.gbl>
	<caduoy9tlvlp3j46feup49xhpewo0k3gqpqekjv1t3qdwp5cvyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA72C5891EE.000002DFleyeshprintse@inbox.com>

BS"D

Terri,

I use Braille both in the Roman and Hebrew Braille codes, and I have no problems to separate them. When I learnt the Hebrew Braille code some years ago, I told myself that it was Another language. I Think you need to tell yourself when you're Learning that it isn't the Roman Braille code you're working with right now, your head needs to understand it and it's only you who can tell it that. Good luck!

Lesholem,
Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Stockholm, Sweden

"Shemah Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad."
- Devarim 6:4

E-mail: leyeshprintse at inbox.com
Blog: http://leyeshprintse.com

Sent from Inbox.com.

____________________________________________________________
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From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 18:31:52 2013
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:31:52 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <EA72C5891EE.000002DFleyeshprintse@inbox.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<blu406-eas41dd49d95e5b741f454ec4f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<c86f7373b1594859a02349ce9f8c9a5c@mistybradleypc>
	<blu172-ds5953a433c5e20f686e768f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<5cfe180310da4ff393a635e70dda80fd@mistybradleypc>
	<blu172-ds6aa6b6cf5ce511b70af61f5c10@phx.gbl>
	<cajcyh69kjgp1nh3qqx0q4ci7phzn3qtfhutrdy-m+jqbtl2wrq@mail.gmail.com>
	<9f5314abf463447bbf6984923c72b740@ownerpc>
	<blu406-eas1251b2778f73682e7be6efff5c60@phx.gbl>
	<caduoy9tlvlp3j46feup49xhpewo0k3gqpqekjv1t3qdwp5cvyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<EA72C5891EE.000002DFleyeshprintse@inbox.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4D+KnVwasF6gzBnt3ztU0tYL4c+AHyRNX4jn50H1NWgG6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Terri,

I am a vocal performance masters student and also sing soprano.  I did
a similar thing to Caiti.  I wrote out scales to help myself remember.
 You need to read it every day.  That will help a lot, and get out
your Braille note taker or Braille writer, and write scales.  Do
scales of just eighth notes, quarter notes, etc.  I would also get a
book like the Braille Primmer and some other books for sight reading
practice. If you are the type of person who can set aside a half an
hour or so every day for something, I would advise that.  Otherwise
expose yourself to it by getting some music you would like to learn in
Braille.  Don't make it too hard at first.  I admit that I had to do
it this way to make myself more motivated on a daily basis.  :)

I am amazed by those who have made it through music programs without
learning music.  I tried it and utterly failed.  Now that I use
Braille music, I am doing much better.  At this point, I would
definitely encourage you to learn it because it is another tool for
you to use.

On 12/24/13, Leye-Shprintse Öberg <leyeshprintse at inbox.com> wrote:
> BS"D
>
> Terri,
>
> I use Braille both in the Roman and Hebrew Braille codes, and I have no
> problems to separate them. When I learnt the Hebrew Braille code some years
> ago, I told myself that it was Another language. I Think you need to tell
> yourself when you're Learning that it isn't the Roman Braille code you're
> working with right now, your head needs to understand it and it's only you
> who can tell it that. Good luck!
>
> Lesholem,
> Leye-Shprintse Öberg
> Stockholm, Sweden
>
> "Shemah Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad."
> - Devarim 6:4
>
> E-mail: leyeshprintse at inbox.com
> Blog: http://leyeshprintse.com
>
> Sent from Inbox.com.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM & EMAIL - Learn more at
> http://www.inbox.com/smileys
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> most webmails
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 24 18:39:16 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:39:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <EA72C5891EE.000002DFleyeshprintse@inbox.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><blu406-eas41dd49d95e5b741f454ec4f5c10@phx.gbl><c86f7373b1594859a02349ce9f8c9a5c@mistybradleypc><blu172-ds5953a433c5e20f686e768f5c10@phx.gbl><5cfe180310da4ff393a635e70dda80fd@mistybradleypc><blu172-ds6aa6b6cf5ce511b70af61f5c10@phx.gbl><cajcyh69kjgp1nh3qqx0q4ci7phzn3qtfhutrdy-m+jqbtl2wrq@mail.gmail.com><9f5314abf463447bbf6984923c72b740@ownerpc><blu406-eas1251b2778f73682e7be6efff5c60@phx.gbl><caduoy9tlvlp3j46feup49xhpewo0k3gqpqekjv1t3qdwp5cvyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA72C5891EE.000002DFleyeshprintse@inbox.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS11E4421F164B72515EA85CF5C00@phx.gbl>

Hi, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I don't know how to read 
Braille Music yet, I actually just started reading a Braille Music Chart 
that someone sent me, which has some Basic Braille Music symbols. I just 
wanted to ask you, is the Hebrew Braille code difficult to learn? Just 
wondering. I actually know how to read grade 2 Braille, which is the 
Literary Braille code. I just would like to learn how to read the Hebrew 
Braille code, since I'm thinking someday in visiting Israel, and I would 
like to learn to speack the Hebrew language! Do yu know where I can learn 
the Hebrew Braille code, and the Hebrew Language? By the way, how did you 
learn the Hebrew Braille Code? Is it true that you have to read it from 
right to left, instead of reading it from left to right? Just curious! I 
will really appreciate it, if you could give me some suggestions regarding 
this. Thanks and God bless!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:08 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

BS"D

Terri,

I use Braille both in the Roman and Hebrew Braille codes, and I have no 
problems to separate them. When I learnt the Hebrew Braille code some years 
ago, I told myself that it was Another language. I Think you need to tell 
yourself when you're Learning that it isn't the Roman Braille code you're 
working with right now, your head needs to understand it and it's only you 
who can tell it that. Good luck!

Lesholem,
Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Stockholm, Sweden

"Shemah Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad."
- Devarim 6:4

E-mail: leyeshprintse at inbox.com
Blog: http://leyeshprintse.com

Sent from Inbox.com.

____________________________________________________________
GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM & EMAIL - Learn more at 
http://www.inbox.com/smileys
Works with AIM®, MSN® Messenger, Yahoo!® Messenger, ICQ®, Google Talk™ and 
most webmails



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From ddavis at blindinc.org  Tue Dec 24 19:34:32 2013
From: ddavis at blindinc.org (Dick Davis)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:34:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Job posting at BLIND, Inc.
Message-ID: <auto-000136650137@mailfront4.g2host.com>


Blindness: Learning In New Dimensions (BLIND), Inc.
100 East 22nd Street, Minneapolis, MN  55404
612-872-0100, <http://www.blindinc.org/>www.blindinc.org

SEEKING A COMMUNICATIONS INSTRUCTOR

             We are looking for someone who is passionate about 
teaching, excited by new challenges, and interested in working as 
part of a small but energetic team. For over 25 years, Blindness: 
Learning In New Dimensions (BLIND, Inc.) has provided small group 
instruction in the alternative techniques of blindness. Our programs 
are based on a positive attitude toward blindness and a belief in the 
normality and competency of blind people. We know that with proper 
training and opportunity, blind people can live full, happy, and 
successful lives.
             Students at BLIND, Inc. learn Braille and computers in 
an integrated curriculum that teaches both at the same 
time.  Students learn Braille using the innovative Code Master 
Braille instruction system, which the successful applicant will learn.

Duties and Responsibilities

1.   Provide individualized instruction to blind  adults in all areas 
of Braille, including but not limited to:

    * Memorization of the braille code
    * Braille reading
    * Writing braille with  a slate and stylus
    * Writing braille on a braille writer
    * Reading and writing braille on electronic devices including 
notetakers and braille displays

2.   Provide individualized instruction to blind  adults in all areas 
of assistive technology including but not limited to:

    * Windows operating systems
    * JAWS for Windows and other screen readers
    * Microsoft Office applications
    * The internet
    * Braille displays
    * Smart phones

3. Provide instruction to several adult students in a small group format.

4. Use the curriculum to develop individualized lesson plans and 
update the curriculum as needed.
5. Write comprehensive monthly reports on each student describing 
progress made and goals to be completed.

6. Participate and assist in all center activities such as rock 
climbing, skiing, and camping, including on some evenings and weekends

7. Function as part of a team, maintaining close communication with 
the director and other instructors, and actively participate in staff 
and other meetings.

8. Promote the organization's progressive philosophy of blindness and 
positive attitudes to students, co-workers and others, and provide 
support and guidance to students throughout their program. Actively 
represent BLIND, Inc. in public meetings and presentations.

9. Actively promote the philosophy of the National Federation of the 
Blind both during and outside of class.

10. Other duties as assigned

Minimum Requirements

1. Expertise in the areas of Braille and assistive technology, 
especially with Windows screen reader software.

2. Able to pass the NCLB test and the technology tests administered 
by State Services for the Blind of Minnesota within 6 months of employment.

3. Willingness to undergo and successfully complete a period of paid 
staff training in order to learn alternative skills of blindness. 
This includes learning the Code Master Braille instruction system.

4. Must have a college degree or comparable work experience.

5. Ability to plan, organize and develop lessons.

6. Must possess excellent written and verbal communication skills and 
must be able to work effectively as part of a team

7. Must demonstrate the ability to work with a variety of people in a 
variety of situations.

8. Must possess the organizational skills required to work with 
multiple students on multiple projects.

9. Must be able to learn new products and updates as they become available.

10. Must be committed to the independence and full community 
integration of blind people.

Please send cover letter and resume to Dick Davis, Interim Executive 
Director, at <mailto:ddavis at blindinc.org>ddavis at blindinc.org, or to 
the address listed above. Questions?  Contact Helen Stevens, 
Communications Instructor, at 
<mailto:hstevens at blindinc.org>hstevens at blindinc.org.


From david.b.andrews at state.mn.us  Tue Dec 24 21:43:06 2013
From: david.b.andrews at state.mn.us (Andrews,
	David B (DEED))
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:43:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Open position with Minnesota State Services for the
	Blind
Message-ID: <auto-000136657617@mailfront4.g2host.com>

We are looking for someone good, and there is still time to apply!

David Andrews





From: Fischer, Samantha (DEED)

Good Afternoon,

I am sending you this email to provide you with details (listed 
below) for an open position for the Director of Minnesota State 
Services for the Blind that is being vacated by Richard Strong.  I am 
also asking if you could please pass along this posting to anyone you 
think would be qualified and interested.

If you, or someone you know, would like to submit a resume for 
consideration please visit: 
<https://statejobs.doer.state.mn.us/JobPosting/View?_posting=13DEED000159>https://statejobs.doer.state.mn.us/JobPosting/View?_posting=13DEED000159. 

DIR SERVICES FOR THE BLIND
$ 34.06-$ 48.91 hourly, $ 71,117-$ 102,124 annually
Date Posted:
11/25/2013
Closing Date:
12/30/2013
Hiring Agency:
Employment & Econ Development Dept
Location:
St. Paul
Who May Apply:
Open to all qualified job seekers
Posting Number:
13DEED000159
Employment Conditions:
Permanent, Full-time
Work Shift:
Day Shift
Days of Work:
Monday-Friday
Travel Required:
yes
Job Grouping:
General Administration
Classified Status:
Classified
What's Great About This Job:
Minnesota State Services for the Blind (SSB) has been serving blind, 
visually impaired and DeafBlind Minnesotans since 1923. It does so 
with a staff of 110 dedicated personnel, over 650 skilled volunteers, 
an active State Rehabilitation Council for the Blind and a host of 
community partners. Each year SSB assists thousands in leading full, 
active and productive lives. Come be part of a great organization in 
a great state.
Job Description:
This position will serve as the Director of State Services for the 
Blind. The Director reports to the Deputy Commissioner of Workforce 
Development and serves as a member of the agency's senior leadership team.

The mission of the Department of Employment and Economic Development 
is to enhance the economic success of individuals, businesses, and 
communities by improving opportunities for prosperity and independence.

The mission of SSB is to facilitate the achievement of vocational and 
personal independence by Minnesotans who are blind, visually 
impaired, or DeafBlind. SSB plays a critical role in ensuring 
Minnesota provides for workforce needs throughout the state by 
removing barriers to employment, as well as personal independence and 
providing the printed word in accessible formats for persons with 
print disabilities. The Director is responsible for developing and 
managing a variety of programs to achieve these goals

Major Responsibilities:

1. Oversee and plan the operations and programmatic work of State 
Services for the Blind

2. Represent SSB and the Department of Employment and Economic 
Development in matters related to services for the blind.

3. Manage the SSB budget of approximately $16 million in annual 
appropriations and grants from federal, state, and private sources. 
Ensure that all resources are utilized effectively and in accord with 
federal and state regulations.

4. Lead efforts to develop, research, and implement structures, 
systems, and new technologies to continuously improve efficiency and 
effectiveness of program delivery.

5. Develop strong strategic partnerships with external partners 
including other state agencies, public officials, businesses, 
community partners, and consumer organizations.
Minimum Qualifications:
Three years of recent experience (in last 10 years) as a manager or 
administrator responsible for a program providing rehabilitation 
services or employment and training or advocacy services for persons 
with disabilities. AND a Bachelor's or Master's Degree in psychology, 
rehabilitation, sociology, business administration, special education 
or closely related field.

IN ADDITION, if you meet the above requirement, please ensure that 
your resume describes your qualifications in the areas below. Failure 
to provide sufficient detail may result in your resume not being considered.

1) Knowledge of rehabilitation programs and services including 
vocational rehabilitation, independent living rehabilitation, special 
education, and the Workforce Center system. Specific knowledge of 
State and Federal laws and regulations governing the provision of 
rehabilitation services to persons who are blind and visually impaired.

2) Knowledge of and experience with budget development and 
management, strategic planning, grant management, and performance measurement.

3) Commitment to team building, communicating, and contributing to 
the promotion of a healthy work environment.

4) Demonstrated management experience including that of quality 
assurance, program evaluation, planning and developing policies and 
procedures.

5) Proven ability to build and maintain relationships and 
collaborations with diverse constituencies including partner local, 
state and federal agencies, businesses, non-profits, public 
officials, and other broad-based stakeholders.
Preferred Qualifications:
Experience working with persons who are blind or visually impaired in 
the rehabilitation process.
Selection Process:
The selection process is a resume-based, skill-matching process. 
Resumes of all applicants to this posting will be evaluated against 
the Minimum Qualifications stated above. If your skills match the 
required skills for this position, the department may contact you.

Employee reference checks will be conducted on all finalists. This 
may include a review of documentation related to job performance. It 
includes contact with the applicant's former employers.

A Criminal Background Check will be conducted on those positions that 
have access to confidential information and/or private data, handle 
financial transactions, or enter the homes of our clients. Please 
note that a Criminal History Check will be conducted on all finalists 
for this position. A criminal conviction will not automatically 
remove you from consideration for employment.

When the position requires travel and the applicant drives a state 
owned or leased vehicle, a driver's license and record check will be 
conducted.
How to Apply:
Most State selection processes utilize a resume-based screening 
process. You will be contacted by agency staff if your background 
best matches the selection criteria on this job posting. To apply for 
this position, click the APPLY box found at the bottom of this job 
announcement. For additional information about the State's selection 
process, go to 
<http://www.careers.state.mn.us/job-tip>http://www.careers.state.mn.us/job-tip. 


Anyone with a disability who believes they may need an accommodation 
should contact the Department of Employment and Economic 
Development's Office of Diversity and Equal Opportunity, in advance, 
so any necessary arrangements can be made. To request an 
accommodation, email 
<mailto:DEED.ODEO at state.mn.us>DEED.ODEO at state.mn.us; or call 
651-259-7094 (MN Relay 711 or MN Relay 1-800-627-3529).
Contact for More Information:
Sue Zeches, 651/259-7107/ 
<mailto:sue.zeches at state.mn.us>sue.zeches at state.mn.us.





Thank you,

Samantha Fischer | Office and Administrative Specialist, Senior
Department of Employment and Economic Development,
State Services For The Blind
2200 University Avenue W., #240
St. Paul. MN 55114
Direct: 651-642-0729 Toll Free: 1-800-652-9000
TTY:  651-642-0506  Toll Free TTY:  1-888-665-3276
<http://www.mnssb.org/>http://www.mnssb.org

Follow DEED on <http://twitter.com/PositivelyMN>
Description: Description: Description: cid:image001.png at 01CB08B
       <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Saint-Paul-MN/Minnesota-Department-of-Employment-and-Economic-Development/124482110906863>
Description: Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg at 01CB08B




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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:03:13 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 15:03:13 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>


I am starting to read braille music as well.  I realize that it 
is a d in my head, but know it is an 8th note c because I have a 
page that has the basics of braille music.  I use this page to 
figure out small songs and keep at it.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: <trising at sbcglobal.net
To: <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I 
am a soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending 
on
the time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I 
would really like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300 
words
per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading 
speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille 
music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly 
says D
and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and 
got high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
benefit.  Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off 
recognizing Braille as Braille and get it to recognize Braille 
music, since
the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than 
mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From louvins at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:20:17 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:20:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>
References: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9sbpQP6pd52eWihpQCYLbiSmTPFPnr-A7E9eDq3334buQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to all.  I've taken a few music classes in college, but none of
them required to use any kind of music notation.  I don't know how to
read braille music.  When I play the guitar and learn a new song, I do
everything by ear.  I first listen to the song I want to learn several
times and just listen to it.  Then I get out my guitar and figure out
what key the song is in.  Then once I've figured out all the chord
changes and the melody, I next decide if I can sing the song in its
original key, or if I have to transpose it.

On 12/24/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am starting to read braille music as well.  I realize that it
> is a d in my head, but know it is an 8th note c because I have a
> page that has the basics of braille music.  I use this page to
> figure out small songs and keep at it.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: <trising at sbcglobal.net
> To: <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind
> Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> Hello:
>
>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I
> am a soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending
> on
> the time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I
> would really like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300
> words
> per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading
> speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
> letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille
> music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
> says D
> and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and
> got high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
> benefit.  Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off
> recognizing Braille as Braille and get it to recognize Braille
> music, since
> the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than
> mud!!
>
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
> ife7%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:51:25 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:51:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS4920E66902F16DB3EBE83F5C00@phx.gbl>

Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless! 
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:55:58 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:55:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
References: <BLU172-DS4920E66902F16DB3EBE83F5C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS1044ABD44C3D73B77871E7AF5C00@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 24, 2013 at 6:51:25 PM EST
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 24 23:59:39 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:59:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <BLU406-EAS1044ABD44C3D73B77871E7AF5C00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS4920E66902F16DB3EBE83F5C00@phx.gbl>
	<BLU406-EAS1044ABD44C3D73B77871E7AF5C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <04A4F15E-0373-48D0-A20B-9853F4081284@gmail.com>

Merry Christmas all!!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>> Date: December 24, 2013 at 6:51:25 PM EST
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> 
>> Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:00:32 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:00:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS4920E66902F16DB3EBE83F5C00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS4920E66902F16DB3EBE83F5C00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <11151A6A-FB06-4D30-AA09-DD3DEE0281F2@gmail.com>

Thanks, same to you :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:51 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:06:43 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:06:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>

Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!  
P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again! 
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:08:05 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 16:08:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
Message-ID: <52ba2209.4abd440a.3a22.ffffc852@mx.google.com>

How do I email to this list? I forgot


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:51:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!

Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and 
your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and 
Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God 
bless!


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:09:38 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:09:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>

Helga,

Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.

Merry Christmas,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!  
> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:10:12 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:10:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  State Convention in January
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS40546814627CF5A78B55BFF5C30@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 24, 2013 at 7:06:43 PM EST
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!  
> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:10:44 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:10:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <52ba2209.4abd440a.3a22.ffffc852@mx.google.com>
References: <52ba2209.4abd440a.3a22.ffffc852@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <43A18155-BAD2-4C3B-A8F3-1D37F1AFCE2C@gmail.com>

Marissa, send an email to
mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:08 PM, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> How do I email to this list? I forgot
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:51:25 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
> 
> Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com

From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:20:23 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:20:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>

Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State Convention, 
during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington seminars is going 
to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January

Helga,

Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact 
having an event there. And email should come out from the division president 
or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.

Merry Christmas,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own 
understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths 
straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to 
> the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going 
> to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some 
> of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have 
> any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe 
> I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:37:25 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:37:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <08E43159-1645-4B12-849C-F8E6708D19DA@gmail.com>

Which state convention are  you  referring to, as I believe each of the 50 states have their own convention.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> 
> Helga,
> 
> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.
> 
> Merry Christmas,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:38:58 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:38:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>

What state convention are you referring to?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> 
> Helga,
> 
> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.
> 
> Merry Christmas,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:54:54 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:54:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl><21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com><BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>

Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from 
Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that. 
Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Bishop
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January

What state convention are you referring to?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State 
> Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington 
> seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks 
> and God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>
> Helga,
>
> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact 
> having an event there. And email should come out from the division 
> president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay 
> tuned.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own 
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths 
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to 
>> the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually 
>> going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to 
>> see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have 
>> any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe 
>> I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 00:57:16 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:57:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BC65964A-018D-4779-8D1F-1252AE83CACE@gmail.com>

Is all good, not a problem.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:54 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that. Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> 
> What state convention are you referring to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks and God bless! :)
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>> 
>> Helga,
>> 
>> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.
>> 
>> Merry Christmas,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 01:07:55 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:07:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BC65964A-018D-4779-8D1F-1252AE83CACE@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl><21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com><BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl><E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com><BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<BC65964A-018D-4779-8D1F-1252AE83CACE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS19BF2E3010EC5A9F228BF8F5C30@phx.gbl>

Hi Josh, this is Helga. Are you going to be in the Florida State Convention 
in January, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Just wondering! And if 
you are, hope to se you there! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Josh Gregory
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January

Is all good, not a problem.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:54 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from 
> Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that. 
> Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>
> What state convention are you referring to?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State 
>> Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington 
>> seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks 
>> and God bless! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>>
>> Helga,
>>
>> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact 
>> having an event there. And email should come out from the division 
>> president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay 
>> tuned.
>>
>> Merry Christmas,
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own 
>> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths 
>> straight."
>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
>>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to 
>>> the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually 
>>> going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to 
>>> see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have 
>>> any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, 
>>> Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 01:13:03 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:13:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS19BF2E3010EC5A9F228BF8F5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<BC65964A-018D-4779-8D1F-1252AE83CACE@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS19BF2E3010EC5A9F228BF8F5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <04F5FFA8-BBFE-40E8-AD67-CD57F61B370E@gmail.com>

Hi, no… I live  in Maryland. Sorry.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Josh, this is Helga. Are you going to be in the Florida State Convention in January, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Just wondering! And if you are, hope to se you there! Thanks and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Josh Gregory
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> 
> Is all good, not a problem.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:54 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that. Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>> 
>> What state convention are you referring to?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks and God bless! :)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>>> 
>>> Helga,
>>> 
>>> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.
>>> 
>>> Merry Christmas,
>>> 
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> 
>>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
>>> Proverbs 3:5-6
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>>>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From jim.hulme at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 01:20:48 2013
From: jim.hulme at gmail.com (James Hulme)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:20:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <04F5FFA8-BBFE-40E8-AD67-CD57F61B370E@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl>
	<21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<BC65964A-018D-4779-8D1F-1252AE83CACE@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS19BF2E3010EC5A9F228BF8F5C30@phx.gbl>
	<04F5FFA8-BBFE-40E8-AD67-CD57F61B370E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKMC2e5uYPySOVFHEwbT71eJPZ+H_mw5VPDuVDJSPH-vTcY+6w@mail.gmail.com>

http://nfbflorida.org/upcoming/convention-2014.htm


Here is the information for NFB of Florida State Convention that Helga
Schreiber is referring to. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays

Hope that Helps.

Jimmy Hulme
908-868-2836 (Mobile)
jim.hulme at gmail.com
Twitter: @JimHulmeLookout
Skype: jimh885
FB <http://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hulme1>
Blog <http://jhulme.blogspot.com/>
Resume <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/james-hulme/2b/b02/260/>


On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, no… I live  in Maryland. Sorry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 24, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Josh, this is Helga. Are you going to be in the Florida State
> Convention in January, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Just
> wondering! And if you are, hope to se you there! Thanks and God bless! :)
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Josh Gregory
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:57 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> >
> > Is all good, not a problem.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:54 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from
> Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that.
> Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Bishop
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> >>
> >> What state convention are you referring to?
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State
> Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington
> seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks
> and God bless! :)
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
> >>>
> >>> Helga,
> >>>
> >>> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in
> fact having an event there. And email should come out from the division
> president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay tuned.
> >>>
> >>> Merry Christmas,
> >>>
> >>> Chris Nusbaum
> >>>
> >>> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths
> straight."
> >>> Proverbs 3:5-6
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <
> helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go
> to the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually
> going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to see
> some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
> >>>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to
> have any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do,
> Maybe I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jim.hulme%40gmail.com
>

From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 25 03:52:34 2013
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 03:52:34 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] =?utf-8?q?Wishing_You_a_Merry_Christmas!?=
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS396F820910C6EB3265A66E7CBC30@phx.gbl>

Thank you Helga, Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!

Sincerely,

Preston








Sent from Windows Mail





From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎24‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎52‎ ‎PM
To: Nabs-l





Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 04:12:36 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:12:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas
Message-ID: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>

Dear Federation Family:

It is that time again when we spend time together with family, 
reflect on the past year, express our feelings to those we love 
and, most importantly, commemorate the birth of our Savior Jesus 
Christ.  It's Christmastime again for all those who celebrate it.  
I would then like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas.  May 
you enjoy all the blessings of this season: the family 
togetherness, the joy of the Christmas celebration, the happiness 
which comes with the giving or receiving of that special gift, 
and the shared love of friends and family.  If you believe as I 
do in the Christian faith, let us remember the baby in a manger 
for whom this season exists.

My Federation family means so much to me.  Your support of me 
through the years is invaluable.  I truly believe that my 
affiliation with this wonderful organization has made me a better 
person, in matters of blindness as well as in everyday life.  I 
thank God that I found the Federation and I am blessed to have 
such a wonderful network of support through all of you, whether 
we have met in person or we know each other only through 
correspondence on these lists.  Thank you for all you have done 
and will continue to do for me and for all blind people.  I look 
forward to working with all of you in the year ahead to continue 
to change what it means to be blind.  Once again, I wish each and 
every one of you a very merry Christmas and the best in 2014.

Sincerely yours,

Chris Nusbaum


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 04:25:58 2013
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:25:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>
References: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4783F632-7AEF-4D44-B906-6C9621D0AC74@gmail.com>

And I  do again say, the same to you and yours. May everyone's Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate be filled with happiness and cheer.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Federation Family:
> 
> It is that time again when we spend time together with family, reflect on the past year, express our feelings to those we love and, most importantly, commemorate the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ.  It's Christmastime again for all those who celebrate it.  I would then like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas.  May you enjoy all the blessings of this season: the family togetherness, the joy of the Christmas celebration, the happiness which comes with the giving or receiving of that special gift, and the shared love of friends and family.  If you believe as I do in the Christian faith, let us remember the baby in a manger for whom this season exists.
> 
> My Federation family means so much to me.  Your support of me through the years is invaluable.  I truly believe that my affiliation with this wonderful organization has made me a better person, in matters of blindness as well as in everyday life.  I thank God that I found the Federation and I am blessed to have such a wonderful network of support through all of you, whether we have met in person or we know each other only through correspondence on these lists.  Thank you for all you have done and will continue to do for me and for all blind people.  I look forward to working with all of you in the year ahead to continue to change what it means to be blind.  Once again, I wish each and every one of you a very merry Christmas and the best in 2014.
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com


From ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 04:51:33 2013
From: ryan.bishop96 at gmail.com (Ryan Bishop)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 21:51:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <4783F632-7AEF-4D44-B906-6C9621D0AC74@gmail.com>
References: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>
	<4783F632-7AEF-4D44-B906-6C9621D0AC74@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BD60CE78-2203-4E61-8177-6B7A315D16F0@gmail.com>

Couldn't have said it better Chris Merry Christmas to all

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 9:25 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> And I  do again say, the same to you and yours. May everyone's Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate be filled with happiness and cheer.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:12 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Federation Family:
>> 
>> It is that time again when we spend time together with family, reflect on the past year, express our feelings to those we love and, most importantly, commemorate the birth of our Savior Jesus Christ.  It's Christmastime again for all those who celebrate it.  I would then like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas.  May you enjoy all the blessings of this season: the family togetherness, the joy of the Christmas celebration, the happiness which comes with the giving or receiving of that special gift, and the shared love of friends and family.  If you believe as I do in the Christian faith, let us remember the baby in a manger for whom this season exists.
>> 
>> My Federation family means so much to me.  Your support of me through the years is invaluable.  I truly believe that my affiliation with this wonderful organization has made me a better person, in matters of blindness as well as in everyday life.  I thank God that I found the Federation and I am blessed to have such a wonderful network of support through all of you, whether we have met in person or we know each other only through correspondence on these lists.  Thank you for all you have done and will continue to do for me and for all blind people.  I look forward to working with all of you in the year ahead to continue to change what it means to be blind.  Once again, I wish each and every one of you a very merry Christmas and the best in 2014.
>> 
>> Sincerely yours,
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 25 06:19:31 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 01:19:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS3E89A31EF2D6BBCD1387AF5C30@phx.gbl><21AD313A-6B3E-43B3-A813-B86B26EF0630@gmail.com><BLU172-DS111B5959F90CA96F3E99D7F5C30@phx.gbl><E9D06682-C765-46D6-9972-2AF7A718A4C2@gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS28CDC7C51DFCE0AE81FB1F5C30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3DFA2622C6B7489AA80317E8D8172550@OwnerPC>

helga,
all states run their own conventions and do different things. You might get 
better responses on the state list you are in.
There is no state convention for students in january except for the meeting 
at washington seminar which is not a convention.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January

Hi guys! I'm referring to the Florida State Convention, since I'm from
Florida. Sorry for the confusion! I actually forgot to mention that.
Actually, it didn't occur to me to mention it! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Bishop
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January

What state convention are you referring to?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2013, at 5:20 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris. I meant students meetings and activities at the State 
> Convention, during the Martin Luther King weekend? Is the Washington 
> seminars is going to be held at the State Convention? Just curius! Thanks 
> and God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:09 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] State Convention in January
>
> Helga,
>
> Are you referring to Washington seminar? If so, the students are in fact 
> having an event there. And email should come out from the division 
> president or another boardmember about this in the near future. Stay 
> tuned.
>
> Merry Christmas,
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own 
> understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths 
> straight."
> Proverbs 3:5-6
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 24, 2013, at 7:06 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys. I just wanted to ask you, how many of you are planning to go to 
>> the State Convention that is going to be be in January? I’m actually 
>> going to be there, but I’m going to be there only for two days! Hope to 
>> see some of you over there. Thanks and God bless!
>> P.S. By the way, I forgot to ask you, are the students are going to have 
>> any activities or meetings over there? Just curious! And if you do, Maybe 
>> I could meet some of you. Thanks again!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.bishop96%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 25 06:21:35 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 01:21:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas
In-Reply-To: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>
References: <52ba5b57.4a23310a.73df.3e63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E262F7FEE6424C64AB4A97F07DDAF9F1@OwnerPC>

Same to you.
Merry christmas all! Enjoy the family, meal, and celebration of Jesus birth.
I'm seeing my grandmother in the day and am excited.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 11:12 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; mdabs at nfbnet.org ; blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; 
nfbmd at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org ; greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org ; 
mdpobc at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Merry Christmas

Dear Federation Family:

It is that time again when we spend time together with family,
reflect on the past year, express our feelings to those we love
and, most importantly, commemorate the birth of our Savior Jesus
Christ.  It's Christmastime again for all those who celebrate it.
I would then like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas.  May
you enjoy all the blessings of this season: the family
togetherness, the joy of the Christmas celebration, the happiness
which comes with the giving or receiving of that special gift,
and the shared love of friends and family.  If you believe as I
do in the Christian faith, let us remember the baby in a manger
for whom this season exists.

My Federation family means so much to me.  Your support of me
through the years is invaluable.  I truly believe that my
affiliation with this wonderful organization has made me a better
person, in matters of blindness as well as in everyday life.  I
thank God that I found the Federation and I am blessed to have
such a wonderful network of support through all of you, whether
we have met in person or we know each other only through
correspondence on these lists.  Thank you for all you have done
and will continue to do for me and for all blind people.  I look
forward to working with all of you in the year ahead to continue
to change what it means to be blind.  Once again, I wish each and
every one of you a very merry Christmas and the best in 2014.

Sincerely yours,

Chris Nusbaum

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 25 06:31:18 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 01:31:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] christmas
Message-ID: <3979AAA0A29A4F529B12553A34E08B5F@OwnerPC>

Hi all,
For those celebrating it, Merry Christmas.
Enjoy your time off school with friends or family.

I’m heading to my grandmother’s retirement place where she’s in assisted living today and anticipating good presents.
I’m excited for what this christmas will bring.

Ashley

From sparklylicious at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 06:46:33 2013
From: sparklylicious at gmail.com (Hannah Chadwick)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:46:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES
Message-ID: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>

Hi all,
I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I was just wondering what
OCR apps you know that are useful for apple devices, in particular on
IPhones? I've tried Prismo but it doesn't seem to work all that well.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Cheers, hannah



From johnniejduran at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 06:57:37 2013
From: johnniejduran at gmail.com (johnniejduran at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:57:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] christmas
In-Reply-To: <3979AAA0A29A4F529B12553A34E08B5F@OwnerPC>
References: <3979AAA0A29A4F529B12553A34E08B5F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E112ABAF-C3DB-40AC-AECC-130CABE49BAE@gmail.com>

Happy holidays 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:31 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> For those celebrating it, Merry Christmas.
> Enjoy your time off school with friends or family.
> 
> I’m heading to my grandmother’s retirement place where she’s in assisted living today and anticipating good presents.
> I’m excited for what this christmas will bring.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com


From johnniejduran at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 06:56:41 2013
From: johnniejduran at gmail.com (johnniejduran at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:56:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES
In-Reply-To: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
References: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6B940903-6FF6-42E5-A996-92992ACC5718@gmail.com>

Say text, and zoom reader

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:46 PM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I was just wondering what
> OCR apps you know that are useful for apple devices, in particular on
> IPhones? I've tried Prismo but it doesn't seem to work all that well.
> Looking forward to your feedback.
> Cheers, hannah
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com


From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 07:03:30 2013
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 01:03:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES
In-Reply-To: <6B940903-6FF6-42E5-A996-92992ACC5718@gmail.com>
References: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
	<6B940903-6FF6-42E5-A996-92992ACC5718@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F016C6A5E8C945EF8E5C2F0BBDFCED97@consumerPC>

are both these apps free?

email: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <johnniejduran at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES


> Say text, and zoom reader
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 24, 2013, at 11:46 PM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I was just wondering 
>> what
>> OCR apps you know that are useful for apple devices, in particular on
>> IPhones? I've tried Prismo but it doesn't seem to work all that well.
>> Looking forward to your feedback.
>> Cheers, hannah
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/johnniejduran%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com 



From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 25 07:19:13 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 02:19:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES
In-Reply-To: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
References: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE55DC05-90AF-4D6F-8934-6BBCAF06ADAD@yahoo.com>

What is OCR? 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 25, 2013, at 1:46 AM, "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I was just wondering what
> OCR apps you know that are useful for apple devices, in particular on
> IPhones? I've tried Prismo but it doesn't seem to work all that well.
> Looking forward to your feedback.
> Cheers, hannah
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Dec 25 13:55:27 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:55:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Seasons Greetings
Message-ID: <auto-000137209458@mailfront3.g2host.com>

The staff and management of nfbnet.org, our 30 plus web sites, and 
our 230 plus lists, would like to wish you and your family and 
significant others a very happy Holiday Season! May the next year be 
a happy and prosperous one for you and yours.  We look forward to 
serving you in 2014 and beyond.


David Andrews, SysOp and List Owner

Steve Jacobson
Mike Freeman



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Dec 25 14:34:23 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:34:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <52ba2209.4abd440a.3a22.ffffc852@mx.google.com>
References: <52ba2209.4abd440a.3a22.ffffc852@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000136694011@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Just send messages to:  nabs-l at nfbnet.org

Dave


At 06:08 PM 12/24/2013, you wrote:
>How do I email to this list? I forgot
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:51:25 -0500
>Subject: [nabs-l] Wishing You a Merry Christmas!
>
>Hi all, I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas to you and your 
>family! and friends! God bless you and your family! and Friends! 
>Hope you have a great time tomorrow! Thanks and God bless!



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Dec 25 14:37:00 2013
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:37:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OCR APPS FOR APPLE DEVICES
In-Reply-To: <DE55DC05-90AF-4D6F-8934-6BBCAF06ADAD@yahoo.com>
References: <00a801cf013d$0de57c90$29b075b0$@gmail.com>
	<DE55DC05-90AF-4D6F-8934-6BBCAF06ADAD@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000137211935@mailfront3.g2host.com>

OCR is "optical character recognition."  It is taking a picture of a 
printed page, or pdf, or other kind of graphical text and suing a 
program to extract the text.

Dave

At 01:19 AM 12/25/2013, you wrote:
>What is OCR?
>
>Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>(336) 988-6375
>pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
> > On Dec 25, 2013, at 1:46 AM, "Hannah Chadwick" 
> <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season. I was just wondering what
> > OCR apps you know that are useful for apple devices, in particular on
> > IPhones? I've tried Prismo but it doesn't seem to work all that well.
> > Looking forward to your feedback.
> > Cheers, hannah



From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 25 18:29:10 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:29:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A droit Tablet
Message-ID: <1A67E625-348A-4E18-9E19-42342282C84D@yahoo.com>

Hello and Happy Holidays! 

My dad surprised me with an Android tablet. I know nothing about the Androit. I'm low vision. What can I do as far as accessibility goes? And what apps work well for school related things (word processing, etc)? 

Thanks for your help! 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 19:27:01 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:27:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A droit Tablet
In-Reply-To: <1A67E625-348A-4E18-9E19-42342282C84D@yahoo.com>
References: <1A67E625-348A-4E18-9E19-42342282C84D@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fam+4E2YBfTGRUEmBjxVd2-D-DDQkg3wcyB9eXu_nBG6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbi,

Is it the Nexus 7?  I have that one and it works really well.  Here
are a few things I would suggest doing.

Go into the settings, go to accessibility, and choose the options that
work best for you.  Talkback, a screenreader similar to voiceover on
the Apple products, is a pretty good program to use if you require
spoken output.  You can adjust font size and other visual stuff too, I
believe.

As far as apps that are good for school, I think dropbox is the best
one because it gives you access to all your stuff no matter where you
are.  The email app that comes on the device is pretty good for that
stuff as well.  I don't have a free text editor/word processing app
that I like yet, but I know someone who is coding one and it looks
promising.  My guess is that you can get Microsoft Word from the
Google Play store.  It comes with a calendar, which is really good for
keeping track of a schedule because it is so accessible and gives you
the ability to color code different events, The calendar also syncs
with your Google account, so you can set up appointments on your
tablet and get reminders through your email client.  There is also
voice search which goes directly to Google, and a calculator.  You can
download things like Blio and apps from other reading companies like
BookShare and I believe Learning Ally too.  I'm going to experiment
and see if a google docs app will work on my tablet; in theory, if
it's a Google product that is built to support other Google products,
it should work but we'll see.

I hope this gets you started.  If I think of more helpful apps I will
send them on.  Enjoy your tablet and the rest of your Christmas!

On 12/25/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello and Happy Holidays!
>
> My dad surprised me with an Android tablet. I know nothing about the
> Androit. I'm low vision. What can I do as far as accessibility goes? And
> what apps work well for school related things (word processing, etc)?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Wed Dec 25 19:29:54 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:29:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9sbpQP6pd52eWihpQCYLbiSmTPFPnr-A7E9eDq3334buQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9sbpQP6pd52eWihpQCYLbiSmTPFPnr-A7E9eDq3334buQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FZ-+H5+7qDpzSog+qWSfzkF5fdbkavjGAXw7-owWfyJLg@mail.gmail.com>

The key with learning braille music is the same key for doing anything
in music; practice, practice, practice.  Repetition is the best way to
get it into your head so that you can pick up a page of music and just
read it, like you would with a page from a literary braille book.

On 12/24/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi to all.  I've taken a few music classes in college, but none of
> them required to use any kind of music notation.  I don't know how to
> read braille music.  When I play the guitar and learn a new song, I do
> everything by ear.  I first listen to the song I want to learn several
> times and just listen to it.  Then I get out my guitar and figure out
> what key the song is in.  Then once I've figured out all the chord
> changes and the melody, I next decide if I can sing the song in its
> original key, or if I have to transpose it.
>
> On 12/24/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am starting to read braille music as well.  I realize that it
>> is a d in my head, but know it is an 8th note c because I have a
>> page that has the basics of braille music.  I use this page to
>> figure out small songs and keep at it.
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <trising at sbcglobal.net
>> To: <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind
>> Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I
>> am a soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending
>> on
>> the time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I
>> would really like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300
>> words
>> per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading
>> speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
>> letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille
>> music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
>> says D
>> and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and
>> got high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
>> benefit.  Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off
>> recognizing Braille as Braille and get it to recognize Braille
>> music, since
>> the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than
>> mud!!
>>
>> Merry Christmas from
>> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 25 20:53:34 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:53:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A droit Tablet
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fam+4E2YBfTGRUEmBjxVd2-D-DDQkg3wcyB9eXu_nBG6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1A67E625-348A-4E18-9E19-42342282C84D@yahoo.com>
	<CAFja7Fam+4E2YBfTGRUEmBjxVd2-D-DDQkg3wcyB9eXu_nBG6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECE14285-543B-40E8-AABC-61D628851B8D@yahoo.com>

Thank you! I have the Nextbook. The built in features don't enlarge things enough for me. I heard their is a Magnification feature on the 4.2 software. My tablet has the 4.1.1. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 25, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bobbi,
> 
> Is it the Nexus 7?  I have that one and it works really well.  Here
> are a few things I would suggest doing.
> 
> Go into the settings, go to accessibility, and choose the options that
> work best for you.  Talkback, a screenreader similar to voiceover on
> the Apple products, is a pretty good program to use if you require
> spoken output.  You can adjust font size and other visual stuff too, I
> believe.
> 
> As far as apps that are good for school, I think dropbox is the best
> one because it gives you access to all your stuff no matter where you
> are.  The email app that comes on the device is pretty good for that
> stuff as well.  I don't have a free text editor/word processing app
> that I like yet, but I know someone who is coding one and it looks
> promising.  My guess is that you can get Microsoft Word from the
> Google Play store.  It comes with a calendar, which is really good for
> keeping track of a schedule because it is so accessible and gives you
> the ability to color code different events, The calendar also syncs
> with your Google account, so you can set up appointments on your
> tablet and get reminders through your email client.  There is also
> voice search which goes directly to Google, and a calculator.  You can
> download things like Blio and apps from other reading companies like
> BookShare and I believe Learning Ally too.  I'm going to experiment
> and see if a google docs app will work on my tablet; in theory, if
> it's a Google product that is built to support other Google products,
> it should work but we'll see.
> 
> I hope this gets you started.  If I think of more helpful apps I will
> send them on.  Enjoy your tablet and the rest of your Christmas!
> 
>> On 12/25/13, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hello and Happy Holidays!
>> 
>> My dad surprised me with an Android tablet. I know nothing about the
>> Androit. I'm low vision. What can I do as far as accessibility goes? And
>> what apps work well for school related things (word processing, etc)?
>> 
>> Thanks for your help!
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 26 11:24:33 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 03:24:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone play piano?
Message-ID: <52bc1218.a2ea440a.5b23.ffffa125@mx.google.com>


Does anyone play piano?

I got a really nice keyboard for Christmas.  61 keys and sounds 
great.  If anyone knows how to play piano, knows any easy songs, 
or just wants to here me play, tell me.


From Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org  Thu Dec 26 14:09:23 2013
From: Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org (Wasif, Zunaira)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 14:09:23 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FZ-+H5+7qDpzSog+qWSfzkF5fdbkavjGAXw7-owWfyJLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9sbpQP6pd52eWihpQCYLbiSmTPFPnr-A7E9eDq3334buQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ-+H5+7qDpzSog+qWSfzkF5fdbkavjGAXw7-owWfyJLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2012f7408085486b945892092f0fe247@BL2PR08MB162.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

I played piano for over ten years, but never learned braille music.  It's really important to have the music theory concepts, though, even if you are learning by ear. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 2:30 PM
To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

The key with learning braille music is the same key for doing anything in music; practice, practice, practice.  Repetition is the best way to get it into your head so that you can pick up a page of music and just read it, like you would with a page from a literary braille book.

On 12/24/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi to all.  I've taken a few music classes in college, but none of 
> them required to use any kind of music notation.  I don't know how to 
> read braille music.  When I play the guitar and learn a new song, I do 
> everything by ear.  I first listen to the song I want to learn several 
> times and just listen to it.  Then I get out my guitar and figure out 
> what key the song is in.  Then once I've figured out all the chord 
> changes and the melody, I next decide if I can sing the song in its 
> original key, or if I have to transpose it.
>
> On 12/24/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am starting to read braille music as well.  I realize that it is a 
>> d in my head, but know it is an 8th note c because I have a page that 
>> has the basics of braille music.  I use this page to figure out small 
>> songs and keep at it.
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <trising at sbcglobal.net
>> To: <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04 
>> -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am a 
>> soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the 
>> time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I would 
>> really like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300 words per 
>> minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds, 
>> but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the letter is 
>> supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music.  For 
>> instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D and not 
>> eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and got high 
>> grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit.  
>> Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as 
>> Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are 
>> the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!
>>
>> Merry Christmas from
>> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 26 19:17:17 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 14:17:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Nano
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS263DE77F21EC993E0EB4B3FF5C20@phx.gbl>



Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? Hope you have had a great time yesterday on Christmas Day with your family and friends. I just wanted to ask you, Do some of you have and know how to use an iPod Nano? I actually got an iPod Nano for Christmas, and I'm still getting use to it. Actually, my  iPod's screen gets dim and turns off so quickly!, and I really don't know how to make the screen not to go dim and turns off so quickly. Do you know how to do that? I'm not really so sure. It is actually very different from the iPhone, it doesn't have a out of lock or something like that! in order to stop the screen from diming so fast and turn itself off. I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me, and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks so much and God bless!! :)  Sent  from my iPhone

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 26 19:18:40 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 14:18:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <2012f7408085486b945892092f0fe247@BL2PR08MB162.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <52ba12d4.85a9420a.7af6.ffffc9dd@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9sbpQP6pd52eWihpQCYLbiSmTPFPnr-A7E9eDq3334buQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FZ-+H5+7qDpzSog+qWSfzkF5fdbkavjGAXw7-owWfyJLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<2012f7408085486b945892092f0fe247@BL2PR08MB162.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb8PjcTU0zFD=AF0H2Y39cz4i6-GtTF2_oPE-h-Bpyrgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I started learning by ear, and did that only for the first 4 years of
playing the clarinet.  I still did it most of the time in high school
because it was difficult for me to get print music to send to a
transcriber from my band director, and do it now in college along with
reading braille music.  What I've noticed is that by learning by ear I
picked up on a lot of the theoretical concepts through trial and
error.  I chunked things into scale and arpegio patterns.  I did not
know the name for a scale with a C major key signature but went from E
to E was called, but once I learned about modes it was just a matter
of matching the names to the different scale degrees.  I had a much
easier time in theory I in college than some of my sighted classmates
because I had these theoretical concepts under my belt.  I think what
happens with sighted musicians is that they get so robotic and just
play the notes they see on the page without actually thinking about
them.  That is one major advantage to using your ear and braille
music; you are forced to see music in harmonic chunks and to practice
these theoretical concepts whenever you play.

I do think learning by ear is important, because it does exercise
these skills, but braille music is important for accuracy too.

On 12/26/13, Wasif, Zunaira <Zunaira.Wasif at dbs.fldoe.org> wrote:
> I played piano for over ten years, but never learned braille music.  It's
> really important to have the music theory concepts, though, even if you are
> learning by ear.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2013 2:30 PM
> To: louvins at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> The key with learning braille music is the same key for doing anything in
> music; practice, practice, practice.  Repetition is the best way to get it
> into your head so that you can pick up a page of music and just read it,
> like you would with a page from a literary braille book.
>
> On 12/24/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi to all.  I've taken a few music classes in college, but none of
>> them required to use any kind of music notation.  I don't know how to
>> read braille music.  When I play the guitar and learn a new song, I do
>> everything by ear.  I first listen to the song I want to learn several
>> times and just listen to it.  Then I get out my guitar and figure out
>> what key the song is in.  Then once I've figured out all the chord
>> changes and the melody, I next decide if I can sing the song in its
>> original key, or if I have to transpose it.
>>
>> On 12/24/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am starting to read braille music as well.  I realize that it is a
>>> d in my head, but know it is an 8th note c because I have a page that
>>> has the basics of braille music.  I use this page to figure out small
>>> songs and keep at it.
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <trising at sbcglobal.net
>>> To: <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:22:04
>>> -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am a
>>> soprano as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the
>>> time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I would
>>> really like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300 words per
>>> minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds,
>>> but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the letter is
>>> supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music.  For
>>> instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D and not
>>> eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and got high
>>> grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit.
>>> Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as
>>> Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are
>>> the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!
>>>
>>> Merry Christmas from
>>> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
>>> ife7%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zunaira.wasif%40dbs.fldoe.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From audioaccess2013 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 26 21:08:38 2013
From: audioaccess2013 at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 16:08:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Your Last Chance To Be With Audio Access FM Before It Goes
	Away Forever
Message-ID: <E309B134F3EE41B8B008211BDCF339C1@AudioAccessFMPC>

Hi All!
A chapter in internet radio history is about to come to a close, as the last moments of Audio Access FM existing on internet radio are just hours away!
To learn more about why Audio Access FM is closing its doors, go here:
http://www.audioaccess.fm/aafm2013.mp3


Tune in to Audio Access FM starting at 4:05PM eastern for the airing of the described audio classic, The Sound Of Music, starring Christopher Plumber and Julie Andrews.

Then at 7 PM eastern, join me, David Dunphy, Audio Access FM's station manager, as I give you the last show AA will ever air! This is our traditional new years show, The Top 30 Songs of 2013, as reported by billboard magazine of the 30 most aired songs on radio this year.

Throughout this countdown special, you'll hear

Countdown extras

Find out what's at the top of the other charts

Maybe hear a #1 song from a year from the past

And of course, find out which song from this year made it to the top!

I'll also be making some comments on the closing down of Audio Access FM, and why fans of what was once this station have a future to be excited about!

I normally don't do this, but since this will be the last show ever to air on AA, I will allow for some on air commentary during the countdown from you the listener.

You're welcome to join me during the countdown show via skype at
audioaccess.fm
Via telephone at
516 324 2552
or via twitter at
audioaccessfm
or my personal twitter of
djdrocks

Again, calls will not be brought on the air that much tonight, but because this is it, there will be some chance for listeners to share any Christmas stories, favorite stories of the year, or just to say hi.

So help Audio Access FM close its doors with class and dignity, by first tuning in for The Sound Of Music, then for the year end countdown to close down the Audio Access FM lifespan.

Tuning in is easy. At any time between 4:05PM and 10:00PM eastern, go to
http://www.audioaccess.fm/listen
to hear the stream, or those wanting to use a player like Winamp can plug in the following:
http://199.180.72.17:8012

Regardless of how you tune in, I hope to see you tonight, as we ring down the curtain on Audio Access FM, and pave the way for a new and exciting radio future to come.

Enjoy!

From audioaccess2013 at gmail.com  Thu Dec 26 21:09:31 2013
From: audioaccess2013 at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 16:09:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Your Last Chance To Be With Audio Access FM Before It Goes
	Away Forever
Message-ID: <FBFA240EA6254C4387EC2C803876C64A@AudioAccessFMPC>

Hi All!
A chapter in internet radio history is about to come to a close, as the last moments of Audio Access FM existing on internet radio are just hours away!
To learn more about why Audio Access FM is closing its doors, go here:
http://www.audioaccess.fm/aafm2013.mp3


Tune in to Audio Access FM starting at 4:05PM eastern for the airing of the described audio classic, The Sound Of Music, starring Christopher Plumber and Julie Andrews.

Then at 7 PM eastern, join me, David Dunphy, Audio Access FM's station manager, as I give you the last show AA will ever air! This is our traditional new years show, The Top 30 Songs of 2013, as reported by billboard magazine of the 30 most aired songs on radio this year.

Throughout this countdown special, you'll hear

Countdown extras

Find out what's at the top of the other charts

Maybe hear a #1 song from a year from the past

And of course, find out which song from this year made it to the top!

I'll also be making some comments on the closing down of Audio Access FM, and why fans of what was once this station have a future to be excited about!

I normally don't do this, but since this will be the last show ever to air on AA, I will allow for some on air commentary during the countdown from you the listener.

You're welcome to join me during the countdown show via skype at
audioaccess.fm
Via telephone at
516 324 2552
or via twitter at
audioaccessfm
or my personal twitter of
djdrocks

Again, calls will not be brought on the air that much tonight, but because this is it, there will be some chance for listeners to share any Christmas stories, favorite stories of the year, or just to say hi.

So help Audio Access FM close its doors with class and dignity, by first tuning in for The Sound Of Music, then for the year end countdown to close down the Audio Access FM lifespan.

Tuning in is easy. At any time between 4:05PM and 10:00PM eastern, go to
http://www.audioaccess.fm/listen
to hear the stream, or those wanting to use a player like Winamp can plug in the following:
http://199.180.72.17:8012

Regardless of how you tune in, I hope to see you tonight, as we ring down the curtain on Audio Access FM, and pave the way for a new and exciting radio future to come.

Enjoy!

From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Fri Dec 27 03:04:48 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 22:04:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Downloading Os X Mavericks
Message-ID: <59272E90-817C-43F7-818D-49344B3422C0@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I hope all of you who celebrate had a very merry Christmas and that those of you who don't had a very merry…whatever you may celebrate.

So I have not yet downloaded OS X Mavericks.  I have just now started the download and I wanted to know if there is anyway to check the progress of the download.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I cannot find the download in the "Downloads" folder, nor can I see the progress in the app store.  Thanks and enjoy the rest of your holliday.

Ryan

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 27 22:29:58 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:29:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?

Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
and parents from around the state different employment options that
were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
thing, ended up following suit.

I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
friend.

About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
mean the end of the world.

The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
there was the characteristic mumbling.

My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
and usual stuff coming over the line.

I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
think I should do?

  --
Kaiti


From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 27 23:01:16 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 15:01:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>

Hi Katie.  My name is Dave.  I'm from California.  It actually sounds like
this girl may have a problem with depression.  I have bipolar and a long
while back I've done the same thing with people.  One of the things that
happens is when a person is going into a crisis with depression what happens
is they try to find a person who they totally feel comfortable with.  When
they find that person that usually is the only person that they'll talk to.
They won't talk to anyone else.  I've done that with people.  I try not to
but at times it just happens.  What to do about it?  That's a hard one.  I
don't think there is an easy answer.  Probably the best thing you can do is
to continue to be her friend.  I know how it is when you're depressed
believe me.  When my grandma died in January I was talking to this person
who I had met online and it sort of was the same thing but reversed in that
I was calling her a lot but the only difference was we were kind of involved
with eachother.  She eventually broke off the relationship.  It wasn't so
much me and what I was doing.  She knew I was going through a lot but she
had a mental illness as well so.  If you want you can mailm me off list and
we could talk about this more.  But.  Yea unfortunately there is not an easy
answer to this o		ne.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 2:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Hi all,

I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure how
to handle it.  Thoughts?

Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This Friday evening
to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students and parents from
around the state different employment options that were available, ranging
from vending and call center jobs to taking the college route to get a
degree in a two or four year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived
close to each other, were hanging out
early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, considering
that this was a very short period of time in which this all happened.  Less
than 24 hours after the students had met, my friend was so creeped out by
the almost constant and unwanted attention that he began to avoid this girl.
Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out
themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.

I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was very
much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more patient with her
throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with the guys than the girls
too, so I had a little more space than my friend.

About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the other parents
who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they could swap resources
if they so chose.  This girl got the list from her parents, and was using it
to call me and my friend, possibly other students as well although I am not
sure.  The calls started off being about once every so often, then
increased.  She was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about her
problems to me and my friend.
There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and negativity,
and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to her much sooner
than I did because I tried to get her to see that being visually impaired,
(she didn't like the word blind since she was a large print reader, and kind
of used that to elivate herself above other people), was not the worst thing
in the world.  She would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't
understand how bad things were, when her descriptions of things made it
sound like she was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior
year, a year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a
downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness
didn't mean the end of the world.

The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching band practices
to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl had kept calling,
sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few hours.  They didn't
want to answer the phone because whenever someone told her I wasn't home she
would instantly get teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very
weird, but they didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember one
night over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I
was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got angry
and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't
want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go,
and there was the characteristic mumbling.

My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been in
college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told her that I
live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved away and
have begun making up different things to tell her to try to discourage her
from calling.  She continues to call, and around Christmas it is always
terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my parents were asleep a little
after  11:00 at night, and has apparently called and left messages late at
night before.  My parents have to get up very early for work, so In order to
stop the ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I
had to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact
that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was
just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.

I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and that
hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at home and am
away at school among other things in frustration, but nothing seems to phase
her.  I know she still calls my friend's house as well, even though he does
not live at home any more either.  I don't quite know what to do about this.
I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried
to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we
should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was
in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a few
nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly creeped out
that even after my parents have told her I am not home for the past year and
a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?

  --
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 27 23:51:45 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:51:45 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kaiti,
The situation you are in sounds horrible for you. This girl clearly
isn't coping and needs emotional support but you can't be responsible
for her needs. It sounds as though she is using you as a helpline. No
one can or will tell you what to do but if I were in your position, I
would look up the numbers of some crisis helplines and give her the
numbers next time she calls. I would also ask her to look into talking
to a professional like a therapist. I know it's difficult but when she
starts to talk about her problems, try not to fan the flames of the
conversation by participating in the conversation. Instead, try and
suggest the same things, (helplines and therapy, emotionally
supportive websites and forums), every time she phones and say nothing
else. If it helps you, write yourself a script and stick to it every
single phone call. If this girl is calling your family, maybe give
them the same script. It may take time but she will stop.

I used to work for a charity that gave emotional support to 16-25 year
olds and you're more than welcome to email me off list if you'd like
specific resources.
Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Katie.  My name is Dave.  I'm from California.  It actually sounds like
> this girl may have a problem with depression.  I have bipolar and a long
> while back I've done the same thing with people.  One of the things that
> happens is when a person is going into a crisis with depression what
> happens
> is they try to find a person who they totally feel comfortable with.  When
> they find that person that usually is the only person that they'll talk to.
> They won't talk to anyone else.  I've done that with people.  I try not to
> but at times it just happens.  What to do about it?  That's a hard one.  I
> don't think there is an easy answer.  Probably the best thing you can do is
> to continue to be her friend.  I know how it is when you're depressed
> believe me.  When my grandma died in January I was talking to this person
> who I had met online and it sort of was the same thing but reversed in that
> I was calling her a lot but the only difference was we were kind of
> involved
> with eachother.  She eventually broke off the relationship.  It wasn't so
> much me and what I was doing.  She knew I was going through a lot but she
> had a mental illness as well so.  If you want you can mailm me off list and
> we could talk about this more.  But.  Yea unfortunately there is not an
> easy
> answer to this o		ne.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 2:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
> how
> to handle it.  Thoughts?
>
> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This Friday
> evening
> to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students and parents from
> around the state different employment options that were available, ranging
> from vending and call center jobs to taking the college route to get a
> degree in a two or four year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived
> close to each other, were hanging out
> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, considering
> that this was a very short period of time in which this all happened.  Less
> than 24 hours after the students had met, my friend was so creeped out by
> the almost constant and unwanted attention that he began to avoid this
> girl.
> Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out
> themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.
>
> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was very
> much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more patient with
> her
> throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with the guys than the
> girls
> too, so I had a little more space than my friend.
>
> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the other parents
> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they could swap resources
> if they so chose.  This girl got the list from her parents, and was using
> it
> to call me and my friend, possibly other students as well although I am not
> sure.  The calls started off being about once every so often, then
> increased.  She was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about
> her
> problems to me and my friend.
> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and negativity,
> and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to her much sooner
> than I did because I tried to get her to see that being visually impaired,
> (she didn't like the word blind since she was a large print reader, and
> kind
> of used that to elivate herself above other people), was not the worst
> thing
> in the world.  She would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't
> understand how bad things were, when her descriptions of things made it
> sound like she was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior
> year, a year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to
> a
> downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness
> didn't mean the end of the world.
>
> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
> and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching band practices
> to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl had kept calling,
> sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few hours.  They didn't
> want to answer the phone because whenever someone told her I wasn't home
> she
> would instantly get teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very
> weird, but they didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember one
> night over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I
> was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
> coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got angry
> and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't
> want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to
> go,
> and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>
> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been in
> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told her that I
> live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved away and
> have begun making up different things to tell her to try to discourage her
> from calling.  She continues to call, and around Christmas it is always
> terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my parents were asleep a little
> after  11:00 at night, and has apparently called and left messages late at
> night before.  My parents have to get up very early for work, so In order
> to
> stop the ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I
> had to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
> myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact
> that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was
> just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.
>
> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and that
> hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at home and am
> away at school among other things in frustration, but nothing seems to
> phase
> her.  I know she still calls my friend's house as well, even though he does
> not live at home any more either.  I don't quite know what to do about
> this.
> I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have
> tried
> to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we
> should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was
> in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a few
> nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly creeped out
> that even after my parents have told her I am not home for the past year
> and
> a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?
>
>   --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 00:29:26 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:29:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01cf0363$de2424b0$9a6c6e10$@gmail.com>

Kaiti,

I dealt with a similar situation. There is no easy way out, and in the end I
wound up changing my contact information and blocking them, because I
genuinely had no idea how to help the individual overcome their challenges.
I still feel like a failure for not having been a better friend, a better
resource, but the circumstances were more than I knew how to handle. Even
now, more than seven years later, I don't know what I could do to help the
person seek the professional assistance they could benefit from. Sometimes,
listening is not enough. Providing referrals to great services is
insufficient. The difficult reality is that we can't help everyone. We can't
make ourselves responsible for the stability of someone else, and when you
factor something like depression into the equation, the issue becomes that
much more complicated. I realize this will have been a whole lot of not
helpful, but it's just one guy's perspective. Sometimes, the only answer is
walking away.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 5:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Hi all,

I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure how
to handle it.  Thoughts?

Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This Friday evening
to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students and parents from
around the state different employment options that were available, ranging
from vending and call center jobs to taking the college route to get a
degree in a two or four year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived
close to each other, were hanging out
early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, considering
that this was a very short period of time in which this all happened.  Less
than 24 hours after the students had met, my friend was so creeped out by
the almost constant and unwanted attention that he began to avoid this girl.
Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out
themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.

I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was very
much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more patient with her
throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with the guys than the girls
too, so I had a little more space than my friend.

About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the other parents
who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they could swap resources
if they so chose.  This girl got the list from her parents, and was using it
to call me and my friend, possibly other students as well although I am not
sure.  The calls started off being about once every so often, then
increased.  She was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about her
problems to me and my friend.
There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and negativity,
and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to her much sooner
than I did because I tried to get her to see that being visually impaired,
(she didn't like the word blind since she was a large print reader, and kind
of used that to elivate herself above other people), was not the worst thing
in the world.  She would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't
understand how bad things were, when her descriptions of things made it
sound like she was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior
year, a year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a
downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness
didn't mean the end of the world.

The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching band practices
to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl had kept calling,
sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few hours.  They didn't
want to answer the phone because whenever someone told her I wasn't home she
would instantly get teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very
weird, but they didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember one
night over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I
was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got angry
and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't
want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go,
and there was the characteristic mumbling.

My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been in
college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told her that I
live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved away and
have begun making up different things to tell her to try to discourage her
from calling.  She continues to call, and around Christmas it is always
terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my parents were asleep a little
after  11:00 at night, and has apparently called and left messages late at
night before.  My parents have to get up very early for work, so In order to
stop the ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I
had to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact
that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was
just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.

I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and that
hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at home and am
away at school among other things in frustration, but nothing seems to phase
her.  I know she still calls my friend's house as well, even though he does
not live at home any more either.  I don't quite know what to do about this.
I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried
to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we
should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was
in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a few
nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly creeped out
that even after my parents have told her I am not home for the past year and
a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?

  --
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 28 00:29:55 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:29:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52BE1B83.8030804@comcast.net>

Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's 
something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often 
taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in 
this case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view 
of girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all 
of us: Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some 
occasions.  We have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of 
my problems.  Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the 
girl might have.  She could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to 
deal with the advancement of others. She could also be creeping your 
friend out because she didn't learn the proper way to deal with boys.  
As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.  Please 
email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what 
happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
Sincerely,
Beth Taurasi
NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
Denver, Colorado
Skype ID: denverqueen0920

On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> Hi all,
 >
 > I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
 > sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
 >
 > Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
 > students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
 > This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show
 > students and parents from around the state different employment
 > options that were available, ranging from vending and call center
 > jobs to taking the college route to get a degree in a two or four
 > year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
 > were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was
 > hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.  It
 > was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time
 > in which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
 > had met, my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and
 > unwanted attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,
 > seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to
 > the same thing, ended up following suit.
 >
 > I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl
 > was very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
 > patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse
 > with the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than
 > my friend.
 >
 > About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
 > calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of
 > the other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so
 > they could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list
 > from her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly
 > other students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off
 > being about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd
 > girl, and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my
 > friend. There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining
 > and negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking
 > to her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
 > being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she
 > was a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself
 > above other people), was not the worst thing in the world. She would
 > cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad
 > things were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she
 > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a
 > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a
 > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that
 > blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
 >
 > The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
 > activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from
 > marching band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because
 > the girl had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a
 > span of a few hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because
 > whenever someone told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary
 > and mumble things to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't
 > want her to continue calling either.  I remember one night over
 > Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I was
 > getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
 > coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got
 > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her
 > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started to get upset.
 > Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
 >
 > My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
 > been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
 > told her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple
 > times. My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've
 > moved away and have begun making up different things to tell her to
 > try to discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and
 > around Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called
 > when my parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has
 > apparently called and left messages late at night before.  My parents
 > have to get up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing
 > and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I had to
 > answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
 > myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The
 > fact that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase
 > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the
 > line.
 >
 > I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her
 > and that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live
 > at home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
 > nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's
 > house as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.
 > I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
 > barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with
 > no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just
 > block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in
 > high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly
 > forgot about her for the most part while I was at school last year
 > and last semester because I can't get calls from her there. After
 > the call a few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am
 > slightly creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am
 > not home for the past year and a half that the calls are still
 > coming.  What do you think I should do?
 >
 > -- Kaiti
 >
 > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
 > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe,
 > change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
 > 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcast.net
 >

From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 28 00:32:41 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:32:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>	<014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52BE1C29.10101@comcast.net>

I didn't think about that one.  I was in a crisis myself, and it was 
back in '06.  If anyone wants to write me off list, feel free and I can 
describe the crisis.
Beth

On 12/27/2013 4:51 PM, Sandra Gayer wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
> The situation you are in sounds horrible for you. This girl clearly
> isn't coping and needs emotional support but you can't be responsible
> for her needs. It sounds as though she is using you as a helpline. No
> one can or will tell you what to do but if I were in your position, I
> would look up the numbers of some crisis helplines and give her the
> numbers next time she calls. I would also ask her to look into talking
> to a professional like a therapist. I know it's difficult but when she
> starts to talk about her problems, try not to fan the flames of the
> conversation by participating in the conversation. Instead, try and
> suggest the same things, (helplines and therapy, emotionally
> supportive websites and forums), every time she phones and say nothing
> else. If it helps you, write yourself a script and stick to it every
> single phone call. If this girl is calling your family, maybe give
> them the same script. It may take time but she will stop.
>
> I used to work for a charity that gave emotional support to 16-25 year
> olds and you're more than welcome to email me off list if you'd like
> specific resources.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Katie.  My name is Dave.  I'm from California.  It actually sounds like
>> this girl may have a problem with depression.  I have bipolar and a long
>> while back I've done the same thing with people.  One of the things that
>> happens is when a person is going into a crisis with depression what
>> happens
>> is they try to find a person who they totally feel comfortable with.  When
>> they find that person that usually is the only person that they'll talk to.
>> They won't talk to anyone else.  I've done that with people.  I try not to
>> but at times it just happens.  What to do about it?  That's a hard one.  I
>> don't think there is an easy answer.  Probably the best thing you can do is
>> to continue to be her friend.  I know how it is when you're depressed
>> believe me.  When my grandma died in January I was talking to this person
>> who I had met online and it sort of was the same thing but reversed in that
>> I was calling her a lot but the only difference was we were kind of
>> involved
>> with eachother.  She eventually broke off the relationship.  It wasn't so
>> much me and what I was doing.  She knew I was going through a lot but she
>> had a mental illness as well so.  If you want you can mailm me off list and
>> we could talk about this more.  But.  Yea unfortunately there is not an
>> easy
>> answer to this o		ne.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 2:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
>> how
>> to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>
>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
>> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This Friday
>> evening
>> to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students and parents from
>> around the state different employment options that were available, ranging
>> from vending and call center jobs to taking the college route to get a
>> degree in a two or four year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived
>> close to each other, were hanging out
>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, considering
>> that this was a very short period of time in which this all happened.  Less
>> than 24 hours after the students had met, my friend was so creeped out by
>> the almost constant and unwanted attention that he began to avoid this
>> girl.
>> Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out
>> themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.
>>
>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was very
>> much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more patient with
>> her
>> throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with the guys than the
>> girls
>> too, so I had a little more space than my friend.
>>
>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
>> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the other parents
>> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they could swap resources
>> if they so chose.  This girl got the list from her parents, and was using
>> it
>> to call me and my friend, possibly other students as well although I am not
>> sure.  The calls started off being about once every so often, then
>> increased.  She was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about
>> her
>> problems to me and my friend.
>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and negativity,
>> and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to her much sooner
>> than I did because I tried to get her to see that being visually impaired,
>> (she didn't like the word blind since she was a large print reader, and
>> kind
>> of used that to elivate herself above other people), was not the worst
>> thing
>> in the world.  She would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't
>> understand how bad things were, when her descriptions of things made it
>> sound like she was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior
>> year, a year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to
>> a
>> downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness
>> didn't mean the end of the world.
>>
>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
>> and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching band practices
>> to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl had kept calling,
>> sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few hours.  They didn't
>> want to answer the phone because whenever someone told her I wasn't home
>> she
>> would instantly get teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very
>> weird, but they didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember one
>> night over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I
>> was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
>> coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got angry
>> and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't
>> want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to
>> go,
>> and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>
>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been in
>> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told her that I
>> live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved away and
>> have begun making up different things to tell her to try to discourage her
>> from calling.  She continues to call, and around Christmas it is always
>> terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my parents were asleep a little
>> after  11:00 at night, and has apparently called and left messages late at
>> night before.  My parents have to get up very early for work, so In order
>> to
>> stop the ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I
>> had to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
>> myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact
>> that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was
>> just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>
>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and that
>> hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at home and am
>> away at school among other things in frustration, but nothing seems to
>> phase
>> her.  I know she still calls my friend's house as well, even though he does
>> not live at home any more either.  I don't quite know what to do about
>> this.
>> I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have
>> tried
>> to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we
>> should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was
>> in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
>> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
>> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a few
>> nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly creeped out
>> that even after my parents have told her I am not home for the past year
>> and
>> a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?
>>
>>    --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>
>



From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 00:35:21 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <52BE1B83.8030804@comcast.net>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<52BE1B83.8030804@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <015501cf0364$b1a50a70$14ef1f50$@gmail.com>

Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high school and
stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I kind of knew
how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some weird stuff
going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you can email
me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the whole list
to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk more.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's
something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often
taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in this
case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view of
girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all of us:
Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some occasions.  We
have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my problems.
Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might have.  She
could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the advancement of
others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she didn't learn
the proper way to deal with boys.  
As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.  Please
email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what
happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
Sincerely,
Beth Taurasi
NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
Denver, Colorado
Skype ID: denverqueen0920

On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> Hi all,
 >
 > I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite  >
sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
 >
 > Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for  >
students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
 > This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show  >
students and parents from around the state different employment  > options
that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs to taking
the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year program.  A
friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
 > were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was
 > hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.  It  >
was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time  > in
which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students  > had met,
my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > unwanted
attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > seeing how
creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the same thing,
ended up following suit.
 >
 > I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl  > was
very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more  > patient
with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with the guys
than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my friend.
 >
 > About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started  >
calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the
other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could
swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her
parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other
students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off  > being
about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > girl, and
liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > friend. There
was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and negativity, and
mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much sooner than
I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually impaired,
(she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print reader, and
kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was not the
worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even tell me I
didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions of things
made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my
junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to
talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that
> blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
 >
 > The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with  >
activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching
band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the girl had
kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few hours.
They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone told her I
wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to herself,
and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue calling
either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that year, she
called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the house, which
I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the holidays
with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone
number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started to
get upset.
 > Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
 >
 > My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've  >
been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has  > told her
that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > times. My
younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > moved away and
have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to discourage
her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas it is
always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents were asleep
a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and left
messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very early for
work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message from
playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was exactly the
same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was asleep when
she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late hour
didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff
coming over the  > line.
 >
 > I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her  > and
that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live  > at home
and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > nothing
seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house as well,
even though he does not live at home any more either.
 > I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she  >
barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > no
success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just  > block her
calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high school
because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot about her
for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last semester
because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few nights
ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped out that
even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past year and a
half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I should do?
 >
 > -- Kaiti
 >
 > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list  >
nabs-l at nfbnet.org  > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
unsubscribe,  > change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
 >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen1107%40comcas
t.net
 >
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 00:39:54 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:39:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <52BE1C29.10101@comcast.net>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>	<014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<52BE1C29.10101@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <015701cf0365$541423e0$fc3c6ba0$@gmail.com>

Hi Beth.  You can email me off list if you want.  Thanks.---Original
Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:33 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I didn't think about that one.  I was in a crisis myself, and it was back in
'06.  If anyone wants to write me off list, feel free and I can describe the
crisis.
Beth

On 12/27/2013 4:51 PM, Sandra Gayer wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
> The situation you are in sounds horrible for you. This girl clearly 
> isn't coping and needs emotional support but you can't be responsible 
> for her needs. It sounds as though she is using you as a helpline. No 
> one can or will tell you what to do but if I were in your position, I 
> would look up the numbers of some crisis helplines and give her the 
> numbers next time she calls. I would also ask her to look into talking 
> to a professional like a therapist. I know it's difficult but when she 
> starts to talk about her problems, try not to fan the flames of the 
> conversation by participating in the conversation. Instead, try and 
> suggest the same things, (helplines and therapy, emotionally 
> supportive websites and forums), every time she phones and say nothing 
> else. If it helps you, write yourself a script and stick to it every 
> single phone call. If this girl is calling your family, maybe give 
> them the same script. It may take time but she will stop.
>
> I used to work for a charity that gave emotional support to 16-25 year 
> olds and you're more than welcome to email me off list if you'd like 
> specific resources.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Katie.  My name is Dave.  I'm from California.  It actually sounds 
>> like this girl may have a problem with depression.  I have bipolar 
>> and a long while back I've done the same thing with people.  One of 
>> the things that happens is when a person is going into a crisis with 
>> depression what happens is they try to find a person who they totally 
>> feel comfortable with.  When they find that person that usually is 
>> the only person that they'll talk to.
>> They won't talk to anyone else.  I've done that with people.  I try 
>> not to but at times it just happens.  What to do about it?  That's a 
>> hard one.  I don't think there is an easy answer.  Probably the best 
>> thing you can do is to continue to be her friend.  I know how it is 
>> when you're depressed believe me.  When my grandma died in January I 
>> was talking to this person who I had met online and it sort of was 
>> the same thing but reversed in that I was calling her a lot but the 
>> only difference was we were kind of involved with eachother.  She 
>> eventually broke off the relationship.  It wasn't so much me and what 
>> I was doing.  She knew I was going through a lot but she had a mental 
>> illness as well so.  If you want you can mailm me off list and we 
>> could talk about this more.  But.  Yea unfortunately there is not an 
>> easy
>> answer to this o		ne.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 2:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite 
>> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>
>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for 
>> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  
>> This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show 
>> students and parents from around the state different employment 
>> options that were available, ranging from vending and call center 
>> jobs to taking the college route to get a degree in a two or four 
>> year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, 
>> were hanging out
>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, 
>> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this 
>> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my 
>> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted 
>> attention that he began to avoid this girl.
>> Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out 
>> themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.
>>
>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl 
>> was very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more 
>> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with 
>> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my 
>> friend.
>>
>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started 
>> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of 
>> the other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so 
>> they could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list 
>> from her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly 
>> other students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off 
>> being about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd 
>> girl, and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my 
>> friend.
>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and 
>> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to 
>> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that 
>> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she 
>> was a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself 
>> above other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would 
>> cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things 
>> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very 
>> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after 
>> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and 
>> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't 
>> mean the end of the world.
>>
>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with 
>> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from 
>> marching band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because 
>> the girl had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a 
>> span of a few hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because 
>> whenever someone told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary 
>> and mumble things to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't 
>> want her to continue calling either.  I remember one night over 
>> Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I was 
>> getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone 
>> coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got 
>> angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her 
>> that I didn't want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  
>> Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>
>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've 
>> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told 
>> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved 
>> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to 
>> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around 
>> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my 
>> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has 
>> apparently called and left messages late at night before.  My parents 
>> have to get up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing 
>> and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I had to 
>> answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed 
>> myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The 
>> fact that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase 
>> her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>
>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her 
>> and that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live 
>> at home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but 
>> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house 
>> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I 
>> don't quite know what to do about this.
>> I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I 
>> have tried to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have 
>> said that we should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in 
>> doing this while I was in high school because I didn't want to be 
>> mean, and then I honestly forgot about her for the most part while I 
>> was at school last year and last semester because I can't get calls 
>> from her there.  After the call a few nights ago, I don't really know 
>> what to think.  I am slightly creeped out that even after my parents 
>> have told her I am not home for the past year and a half that the 
>> calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?
>>
>>    --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gm
>> ail.com
>>
>


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From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 28 00:52:38 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:52:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
Message-ID: <mailman.97.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school 
can be intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the 
upper hand job of taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom 
or date, I was always accused of sexual harassment.  See the 
contact info at the bottom of the page email.
Beth Taurasi
Denver Colorado
Skypename: denverqueen0920
Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high 
school and
stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I 
kind of knew
how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some 
weird stuff
going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you 
can email
me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the 
whole list
to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk 
more.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth 
Taurasi
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but 
there's
something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not 
often
taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, 
in this
case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic 
view of
girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for 
all of us:
Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some 
occasions.  We
have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my 
problems.
Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might 
have.  She
could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the 
advancement of
others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she 
didn't learn
the proper way to deal with boys.
As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.  
Please
email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself 
and what
happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
Sincerely,
Beth Taurasi
NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
Denver, Colorado
Skype ID: denverqueen0920

On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not 
quite
sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?

 Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar 
for
students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
 This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to 
show
students and parents from around the state different employment  
> options
that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs 
to taking
the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year 
program.  A
friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
 were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl 
was
 hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.  
It
was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of 
time  > in
which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students  
> had met,
my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > 
unwanted
attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > 
seeing how
creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the 
same thing,
ended up following suit.

 I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The 
girl  > was
very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more  
> patient
with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with 
the guys
than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my 
friend.

 About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list 
of  > the
other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > 
they could
swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from 
her
parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > 
other
students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off  
> being
about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > 
girl, and
liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > 
friend. There
was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and 
negativity, and
mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much 
sooner than
I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually 
impaired,
(she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print 
reader, and
kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was 
not the
worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even 
tell me I
didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions 
of things
made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at 
the end of my
junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I 
didn't want to
talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to 
convince her that
 blindness didn't mean the end of the world.

 The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > 
marching
band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > 
the girl had
kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a 
few hours.
They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone 
told her I
wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to 
herself,
and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue 
calling
either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that 
year, she
called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the 
house, which
I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the 
holidays
with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my 
cell phone
number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she 
started to
get upset.
 Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic 
mumbling.

 My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that 
I've
been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has  
> told her
that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > 
times. My
younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > 
moved away and
have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to 
discourage
her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas 
it is
always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents 
were asleep
a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and 
left
messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very 
early for
work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message 
from
playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was 
exactly the
same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was 
asleep when
she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late 
hour
didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and 
usual stuff
coming over the  > line.

 I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with 
her  > and
that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live  
> at home
and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > 
nothing
seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house 
as well,
even though he does not live at home any more either.
 I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and 
she
barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her 
with  > no
success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just  
> block her
calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high 
school
because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot 
about her
for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last 
semester
because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few 
nights
ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped 
out that
even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past 
year and a
half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I 
should do?

 -- Kaiti

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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 00:54:31 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:54:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<014701cf0357$8d10cbc0$a7326340$@gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH69rpCe=6TnmtQ67qR-h+_Sbu2w6DhzhbrC06KkEZa_u2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC0h=AiE3d3n6ed9VSQcqa6_9rR0Hitrwnur8MwJ-93Wg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti,

I have been in situations similar to what you are describing, so I
have a few ideas. First, I wonder if the issues she is complaining
about are blindness-related or are they more general family issues or
mental health issues? If you suspect she may be depressed or
experiencing some other mental health problem that's not being
addressed, it would be good to give her some crisis line numbers. The
crisis lines are staffed by trained volunteers or professionals who
are sitting there waiting for calls from people like her. It is much
better for her to call one of these trained folks than it is to be
calling you at your house while you are busy living your life. It is
also more compassionate because she will be talking with trained
therapists who are motivated to help her and have the experience to
know how to respond to her crises. Next time she calls, you could tell
her that you care about her but that you think the people at the
crisis line will be able to help her better than you can and that the
crisis line people can answer her call any time of day or night, but
that you are busy with school and often can't answer her calls. If she
keeps calling after that, remind her that you want her to call the
crisis lines instead of calling you, at least if it's not about
blindness. If it is about blindness, then do you think you have
anything else to offer her that you haven't already? If not, then you
can just be honest and tell her that you have already given her some
helpful suggestions and that you don't have any other ideas for her.
You can emphasize that you are busy and don't have a lot of time to
sit around and listen to her problems but that you do care about her
and are helping her get in touch with other people who can help her.
You can and should also set boundaries around the time of day that she
calls. Tell her that you don't want her to call after a certain time
when your parents go to bed because the call will wake them up and if
she calls anyway after hours, remind her that you don't want her
calling so late and that you will block her number if the late-night
calls continue. My experience has been that if you are kind but firm
with the boundaries, the unwanted calls do eventually stop.

Arielle

On 12/27/13, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
> The situation you are in sounds horrible for you. This girl clearly
> isn't coping and needs emotional support but you can't be responsible
> for her needs. It sounds as though she is using you as a helpline. No
> one can or will tell you what to do but if I were in your position, I
> would look up the numbers of some crisis helplines and give her the
> numbers next time she calls. I would also ask her to look into talking
> to a professional like a therapist. I know it's difficult but when she
> starts to talk about her problems, try not to fan the flames of the
> conversation by participating in the conversation. Instead, try and
> suggest the same things, (helplines and therapy, emotionally
> supportive websites and forums), every time she phones and say nothing
> else. If it helps you, write yourself a script and stick to it every
> single phone call. If this girl is calling your family, maybe give
> them the same script. It may take time but she will stop.
>
> I used to work for a charity that gave emotional support to 16-25 year
> olds and you're more than welcome to email me off list if you'd like
> specific resources.
> Very best wishes,
> Sandra.
>
> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Katie.  My name is Dave.  I'm from California.  It actually sounds
>> like
>> this girl may have a problem with depression.  I have bipolar and a long
>> while back I've done the same thing with people.  One of the things that
>> happens is when a person is going into a crisis with depression what
>> happens
>> is they try to find a person who they totally feel comfortable with.
>> When
>> they find that person that usually is the only person that they'll talk
>> to.
>> They won't talk to anyone else.  I've done that with people.  I try not
>> to
>> but at times it just happens.  What to do about it?  That's a hard one.
>> I
>> don't think there is an easy answer.  Probably the best thing you can do
>> is
>> to continue to be her friend.  I know how it is when you're depressed
>> believe me.  When my grandma died in January I was talking to this person
>> who I had met online and it sort of was the same thing but reversed in
>> that
>> I was calling her a lot but the only difference was we were kind of
>> involved
>> with eachother.  She eventually broke off the relationship.  It wasn't so
>> much me and what I was doing.  She knew I was going through a lot but she
>> had a mental illness as well so.  If you want you can mailm me off list
>> and
>> we could talk about this more.  But.  Yea unfortunately there is not an
>> easy
>> answer to this o		ne.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 2:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
>> how
>> to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>
>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
>> students
>> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This Friday
>> evening
>> to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students and parents from
>> around the state different employment options that were available,
>> ranging
>> from vending and call center jobs to taking the college route to get a
>> degree in a two or four year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived
>> close to each other, were hanging out
>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, considering
>> that this was a very short period of time in which this all happened.
>> Less
>> than 24 hours after the students had met, my friend was so creeped out by
>> the almost constant and unwanted attention that he began to avoid this
>> girl.
>> Other students, seeing how creeped out he was and some creeped out
>> themselves due to the same thing, ended up following suit.
>>
>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
>> very
>> much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more patient with
>> her
>> throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with the guys than the
>> girls
>> too, so I had a little more space than my friend.
>>
>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling
>> my
>> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the other parents
>> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they could swap
>> resources
>> if they so chose.  This girl got the list from her parents, and was using
>> it
>> to call me and my friend, possibly other students as well although I am
>> not
>> sure.  The calls started off being about once every so often, then
>> increased.  She was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about
>> her
>> problems to me and my friend.
>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
>> negativity,
>> and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to her much sooner
>> than I did because I tried to get her to see that being visually
>> impaired,
>> (she didn't like the word blind since she was a large print reader, and
>> kind
>> of used that to elivate herself above other people), was not the worst
>> thing
>> in the world.  She would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't
>> understand how bad things were, when her descriptions of things made it
>> sound like she was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior
>> year, a year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk
>> to
>> a
>> downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness
>> didn't mean the end of the world.
>>
>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
>> and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching band
>> practices
>> to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl had kept calling,
>> sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few hours.  They didn't
>> want to answer the phone because whenever someone told her I wasn't home
>> she
>> would instantly get teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very
>> weird, but they didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember
>> one
>> night over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I
>> was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up someone
>> coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, she got angry
>> and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't
>> want to give it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to
>> go,
>> and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>
>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been
>> in
>> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told her that I
>> live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved away
>> and
>> have begun making up different things to tell her to try to discourage
>> her
>> from calling.  She continues to call, and around Christmas it is always
>> terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my parents were asleep a
>> little
>> after  11:00 at night, and has apparently called and left messages late
>> at
>> night before.  My parents have to get up very early for work, so In order
>> to
>> stop the ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I
>> had to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed
>> myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact
>> that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there
>> was
>> just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>
>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
>> that
>> hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at home and
>> am
>> away at school among other things in frustration, but nothing seems to
>> phase
>> her.  I know she still calls my friend's house as well, even though he
>> does
>> not live at home any more either.  I don't quite know what to do about
>> this.
>> I barely know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have
>> tried
>> to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that we
>> should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I
>> was
>> in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly
>> forgot
>> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
>> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a few
>> nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly creeped out
>> that even after my parents have told her I am not home for the past year
>> and
>> a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?
>>
>>   --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
> Broadcast Presenter
>
> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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>


From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 01:29:50 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 17:29:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>

Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a tendency
to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean to
embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish which
I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists about it
but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want to
touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school can be
intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper hand job of
taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was always accused
of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the page email.
Beth Taurasi
Denver Colorado
Skypename: denverqueen0920
Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high school and
stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I kind of knew
how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some weird stuff
going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you can email
me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the whole list
to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk more.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's
something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often
taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in this
case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view of
girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all of us:
Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some occasions.  We
have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my problems.
Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might have.  She
could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the advancement of
others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she didn't learn
the proper way to deal with boys.
As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.  
Please
email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what
happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
Sincerely,
Beth Taurasi
NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
Denver, Colorado
Skype ID: denverqueen0920

On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
 Hi all,

 I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
how to handle it.  Thoughts?

 Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
 This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
and parents from around the state different employment  
> options
that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs to taking
the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year program.  A
friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
 were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl 
was
 hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.  
It
was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time  > in
which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students  
> had met,
my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > unwanted
attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > seeing how
creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the same thing,
ended up following suit.

 I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl  > was
very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more  
> patient
with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with the guys
than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my friend.

 About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the other parents
who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could swap
resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her parents, and
was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other students as well
although I am not sure.  The calls started off  
> being
about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > girl, and
liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > friend. There
was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and negativity, and
mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much sooner than
I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually impaired,
(she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print reader, and
kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was not the
worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even tell me I
didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions of things
made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my
junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to
talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that
blindness didn't mean the end of the world.

 The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching band
practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the girl had kept
calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few hours.
They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone told her I
wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to herself,
and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue calling
either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that year, she
called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the house, which
I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the holidays
with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone
number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started to
get upset.
 Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.

 My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been in
college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has  
> told her
that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > times. My
younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > moved away and
have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to discourage
her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas it is
always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents were asleep
a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and left
messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very early for
work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message from
playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was exactly the
same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was asleep when
she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late hour
didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff
coming over the  > line.

 I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her  > and
that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live  
> at home
and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > nothing
seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house as well,
even though he does not live at home any more either.
 I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she barely
knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > no success.
My parents and siblings have said that we should just  
> block her
calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high school
because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot about her
for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last semester
because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few nights
ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped out that
even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past year and a
half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I should do?

 -- Kaiti

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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 01:46:43 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:46:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.

A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
so I thought things would be going better.

If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.

I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.

On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
> tendency
> to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean to
> embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish which
> I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists about
> it
> but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want to
> touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>
> Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school can be
> intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper hand job
> of
> taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was always
> accused
> of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the page
> email.
> Beth Taurasi
> Denver Colorado
> Skypename: denverqueen0920
> Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
> Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high school and
> stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I kind of
> knew
> how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some weird stuff
> going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you can email
> me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the whole
> list
> to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk more.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
> Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's
> something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often
> taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in this
> case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view of
> girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all of us:
> Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some occasions.  We
> have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my problems.
> Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might have.
> She
> could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the advancement of
> others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she didn't learn
> the proper way to deal with boys.
> As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.
> Please
> email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what
> happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
> Sincerely,
> Beth Taurasi
> NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
> Denver, Colorado
> Skype ID: denverqueen0920
>
> On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
>  I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
> how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>
>  Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for students
> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
>  This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show
> students
> and parents from around the state different employment
>> options
> that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs to taking
> the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year program.  A
> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
>  were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl
> was
>  hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.
> It
> was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time  > in
> which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
>> had met,
> my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > unwanted
> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > seeing how
> creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the same
> thing,
> ended up following suit.
>
>  I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl  > was
> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
>> patient
> with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with the guys
> than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my friend.
>
>  About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling my
> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the other
> parents
> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could swap
> resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her parents,
> and
> was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other students as well
> although I am not sure.  The calls started off
>> being
> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > girl, and
> liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > friend. There
> was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and negativity, and
> mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much sooner
> than
> I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually impaired,
> (she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print reader, and
> kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was not the
> worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even tell me I
> didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions of things
> made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of
> my
> junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want
> to
> talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her
> that
> blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
>
>  The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
> and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching band
> practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the girl had kept
> calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few hours.
> They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone told her I
> wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to herself,
> and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue calling
> either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that year, she
> called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the house, which
> I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the holidays
> with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone
> number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started
> to
> get upset.
>  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>
>  My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been
> in
> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
>> told her
> that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > times. My
> younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > moved away and
> have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to discourage
> her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas it is
> always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents were
> asleep
> a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and left
> messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very early for
> work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message from
> playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was exactly the
> same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was asleep when
> she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late hour
> didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff
> coming over the  > line.
>
>  I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her  > and
> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live
>> at home
> and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > nothing
> seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house as well,
> even though he does not live at home any more either.
>  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
> barely
> knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > no success.
> My parents and siblings have said that we should just
>> block her
> calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high school
> because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot about her
> for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last semester
> because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few nights
> ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped out that
> even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past year and
> a
> half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I should do?
>
>  -- Kaiti
>
>  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org  > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To
> unsubscribe,  > change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> 07%40comcas
> t.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> for nabs-l:
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> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 01:57:25 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAEyKGs_MKO6C0bJk2G69KNzddx=S9s+8_0xMhJqxQ2Zw@mail.gmail.com>

That's too bad that she's so opposed to professional help. But whether
or not she takes your advice, you can still tell her frankly that you
don't know how to help her anymore than you already have. From what
you have been saying I suspect there may be cognitive disabilities
involved as well, which could affect how well she can communicate or
interpret what others are telling her. Cognitive disabilities are
often more challenging to deal with than blindness and there is no
easy solution. I feel for her but it's also clear that you can only do
the best you can.

Arielle

On 12/27/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
> upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>
> A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
> issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
> her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
> also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
> talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
> I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
> she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
> in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
> her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
> so I thought things would be going better.
>
> If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
> that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
> was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
>
> I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
> issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
> said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
>
> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
>> tendency
>> to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean
>> to
>> embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish
>> which
>> I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists about
>> it
>> but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want to
>> touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>> Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school can be
>> intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper hand job
>> of
>> taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was always
>> accused
>> of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the page
>> email.
>> Beth Taurasi
>> Denver Colorado
>> Skypename: denverqueen0920
>> Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> advice?
>>
>> Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high school
>> and
>> stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I kind of
>> knew
>> how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some weird
>> stuff
>> going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you can
>> email
>> me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the whole
>> list
>> to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk more.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> advice?
>>
>> Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's
>> something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often
>> taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in this
>> case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view of
>> girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all of
>> us:
>> Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some occasions.  We
>> have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my problems.
>> Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might have.
>> She
>> could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the advancement
>> of
>> others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she didn't
>> learn
>> the proper way to deal with boys.
>> As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.
>> Please
>> email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what
>> happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
>> Sincerely,
>> Beth Taurasi
>> NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
>> Denver, Colorado
>> Skype ID: denverqueen0920
>>
>> On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>
>>  I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
>> how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>
>>  Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
>> students
>> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
>>  This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show
>> students
>> and parents from around the state different employment
>>> options
>> that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs to
>> taking
>> the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year program.  A
>> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
>>  were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl
>> was
>>  hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.
>> It
>> was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time  > in
>> which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
>>> had met,
>> my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > unwanted
>> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > seeing
>> how
>> creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the same
>> thing,
>> ended up following suit.
>>
>>  I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl  >
>> was
>> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
>>> patient
>> with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with the guys
>> than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my friend.
>>
>>  About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling
>> my
>> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the other
>> parents
>> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could swap
>> resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her parents,
>> and
>> was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other students as well
>> although I am not sure.  The calls started off
>>> being
>> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > girl,
>> and
>> liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > friend.
>> There
>> was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and negativity,
>> and
>> mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much sooner
>> than
>> I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually impaired,
>> (she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print reader,
>> and
>> kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was not the
>> worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even tell me
>> I
>> didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions of things
>> made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of
>> my
>> junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want
>> to
>> talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her
>> that
>> blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
>>
>>  The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
>> activities
>> and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching band
>> practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the girl had
>> kept
>> calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few hours.
>> They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone told her
>> I
>> wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to
>> herself,
>> and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue calling
>> either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that year, she
>> called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the house,
>> which
>> I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the
>> holidays
>> with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone
>> number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started
>> to
>> get upset.
>>  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>
>>  My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been
>> in
>> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
>>> told her
>> that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > times. My
>> younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > moved away
>> and
>> have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to discourage
>> her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas it is
>> always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents were
>> asleep
>> a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and left
>> messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very early
>> for
>> work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message from
>> playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was exactly the
>> same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was asleep
>> when
>> she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late hour
>> didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff
>> coming over the  > line.
>>
>>  I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her  >
>> and
>> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live
>>> at home
>> and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > nothing
>> seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house as well,
>> even though he does not live at home any more either.
>>  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
>> barely
>> knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > no
>> success.
>> My parents and siblings have said that we should just
>>> block her
>> calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high school
>> because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot about her
>> for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last semester
>> because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few nights
>> ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped out
>> that
>> even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past year
>> and
>> a
>> half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I should do?
>>
>>  -- Kaiti
>>
>>  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org  > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To
>> unsubscribe,  > change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>> 07%40comcas
>> t.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>> 07%40comcast.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> nabs-l:
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>


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 02:09:50 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 21:09:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>

I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her parents or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but you may need to take such actions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
> upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> 
> A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
> issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
> her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
> also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
> talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
> I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
> she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
> in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
> her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
> so I thought things would be going better.
> 
> If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
> that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
> was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> 
> I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
> issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
> said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> 
>> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
>> tendency
>> to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean to
>> embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish which
>> I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists about
>> it
>> but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want to
>> touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list


From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 02:45:30 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:45:30 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>

I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I mean
it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her parents
or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but you
may need to take such actions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her 
> upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not 
> taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> 
> A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but 
> there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some 
> issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take 
> her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she 
> also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop 
> talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so 
> I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then 
> she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was 
> in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to 
> her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend, 
> so I thought things would be going better.
> 
> If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how 
> that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she 
> was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> 
> I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness 
> issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and 
> said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> 
>> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a 
>> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I 
>> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a 
>> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried 
>> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to 
>> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking 
>> about it.  So.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth 
>> Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com



From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 28 02:59:22 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:59:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
Message-ID: <mailman.98.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Unfortunately, all my social quirks are whauft they are.  
Unfortunately, I know a guy in England who has a weird quirk or 
two, but that doesn't mean he can't say a word to me about other 
stuff.  Blindness issues?  Whoa.  I had blindness issues too.  
Like my chorus teacher refused admittance to me as accompanist 
and did not allow me to sing in the small Camorata singers.  I 
wasn't even allowed to sing in the Madrigal ensemble which was a 
dream of mine to do.  The big problem was that the director, and 
I'm not afraid to say his name, Tom Davis, was not educated 
enough to see that blind people could and should accompany a 
chorus.  That's a whole other subject, but such issues made me 
cry harder than rainstorms.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:46:43 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Hi,

I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made 
her
upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.

A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had 
some
issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't 
take
her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and 
she
also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would 
stop
talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was 
crying, so
I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  
Then
she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This 
was
in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually 
talked to
her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a 
boyfriend,
so I thought things would be going better.

If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see 
how
that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since 
she
was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.

I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of 
blindness
issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've 
done and
said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.

On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I 
have a
 tendency
 to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I 
don't mean to
 embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange 
fettish which
 I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to 
therpists about
 it
 but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't 
want to
 touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Beth Taurasi
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work... advice?

 Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school 
can be
 intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper 
hand job
 of
 taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was 
always
 accused
 of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the 
page
 email.
 Beth Taurasi
 Denver Colorado
 Skypename: denverqueen0920
 Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work...
 advice?

 Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high 
school and
 stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I 
kind of
 knew
 how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some 
weird stuff
 going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want 
you can email
 me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want 
the whole
 list
 to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk 
more.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Beth Taurasi
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work...
 advice?

 Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but 
there's
 something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not 
often
 taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are 
girls, in this
 case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic 
view of
 girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for 
all of us:
 Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some 
occasions.  We
 have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my 
problems.
 Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl 
might have.
 She
 could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the 
advancement of
 others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she 
didn't learn
 the proper way to deal with boys.
 As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.
 Please
 email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself 
and what
 happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
 Sincerely,
 Beth Taurasi
 NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
 Denver, Colorado
 Skype ID: denverqueen0920

 On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
  Hi all,

  I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not 
quite sure
 how to handle it.  Thoughts?

  Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar 
for students
 in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
  This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to 
show
 students
 and parents from around the state different employment
 options
 that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > 
jobs to taking
 the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year 
program.  A
 friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
  were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl
 was
  hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.
 It
 was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of 
time  > in
 which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
 had met,
 my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > 
unwanted
 attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > 
seeing how
 creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the 
same
 thing,
 ended up following suit.

  I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The 
girl  > was
 very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
 patient
 with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with 
the guys
 than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my 
friend.

  About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started 
calling my
 house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the 
other
 parents
 who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could 
swap
 resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her 
parents,
 and
 was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other 
students as well
 although I am not sure.  The calls started off
 being
 about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  
> girl, and
 liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > 
friend. There
 was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and 
negativity, and
 mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much 
sooner
 than
 I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually 
impaired,
 (she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print 
reader, and
 kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was 
not the
 worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and 
even tell me I
 didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions 
of things
 made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at 
the end of
 my
 junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I 
didn't want
 to
 talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to 
convince her
 that
 blindness didn't mean the end of the world.

  The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with 
activities
 and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching 
band
 practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the 
girl had kept
 calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few 
hours.
 They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone 
told her I
 wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things 
to herself,
 and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue 
calling
 either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that 
year, she
 called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the 
house, which
 I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for 
the holidays
 with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my 
cell phone
 number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and 
she started
 to
 get upset.
  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic 
mumbling.

  My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that 
I've been
 in
 college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
 told her
 that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > 
times. My
 younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > 
moved away and
 have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to 
discourage
 her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around 
Christmas it is
 always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents 
were
 asleep
 a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and 
left
 messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up 
very early for
 work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a 
message from
 playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was 
exactly the
 same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was 
asleep when
 she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a 
late hour
 didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and 
usual stuff
 coming over the  > line.

  I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with 
her  > and
 that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer 
live
 at home
 and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > 
nothing
 seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house 
as well,
 even though he does not live at home any more either.
  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her 
and she
 barely
 knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > 
no success.
 My parents and siblings have said that we should just
 block her
 calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high 
school
 because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot 
about her
 for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last 
semester
 because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a 
few nights
 ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly 
creeped out that
 even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the 
past year and
 a
 half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I 
should do?

  -- Kaiti

  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing 
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--
Kaiti

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From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 28 02:59:24 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 19:59:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
Message-ID: <mailman.99.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Gee, Arielle, I didn't know that.  A cognitive disability can 
sometimes be a real turnoff for some people.  My mom thought I 
had a cognitive disability, but no.  I do not.  Mental health 
issues I later was diagnosed with were a result of not blindness 
or cognitive disability, but parental misconduct.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

That's too bad that she's so opposed to professional help. But 
whether
or not she takes your advice, you can still tell her frankly that 
you
don't know how to help her anymore than you already have. From 
what
you have been saying I suspect there may be cognitive 
disabilities
involved as well, which could affect how well she can communicate 
or
interpret what others are telling her. Cognitive disabilities are
often more challenging to deal with than blindness and there is 
no
easy solution. I feel for her but it's also clear that you can 
only do
the best you can.

Arielle

On 12/27/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,

 I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made 
her
 upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm 
not
 taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.

 A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, 
but
 there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had 
some
 issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't 
take
 her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and 
she
 also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made 
would stop
 talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was 
crying, so
 I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  
Then
 she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  
This was
 in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually 
talked to
 her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a 
boyfriend,
 so I thought things would be going better.

 If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see 
how
 that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since 
she
 was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the 
past.

 I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of 
blindness
 issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've 
done and
 said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she 
does.

 On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I 
have a
 tendency
 to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I 
don't mean
 to
 embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange 
fettish
 which
 I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to 
therpists about
 it
 but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't 
want to
 touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Beth Taurasi
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work... advice?

 Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school 
can be
 intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper 
hand job
 of
 taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was 
always
 accused
 of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the 
page
 email.
 Beth Taurasi
 Denver Colorado
 Skypename: denverqueen0920
 Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work...
 advice?

 Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high 
school
 and
 stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I 
kind of
 knew
 how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some 
weird
 stuff
 going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want 
you can
 email
 me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want 
the whole
 list
 to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk 
more.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Beth Taurasi
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to 
work...
 advice?

 Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but 
there's
 something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not 
often
 taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are 
girls, in this
 case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic 
view of
 girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for 
all of
 us:
 Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some 
occasions.  We
 have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my 
problems.
 Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl 
might have.
 She
 could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the 
advancement
 of
 others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she 
didn't
 learn
 the proper way to deal with boys.
 As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.
 Please
 email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself 
and what
 happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
 Sincerely,
 Beth Taurasi
 NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
 Denver, Colorado
 Skype ID: denverqueen0920

 On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
  Hi all,

  I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not 
quite sure
 how to handle it.  Thoughts?

  Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar 
for
 students
 in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
  This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to 
show
 students
 and parents from around the state different employment
 options
 that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > 
jobs to
 taking
 the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year 
program.  A
 friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
  were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl
 was
  hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.
 It
 was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of 
time  > in
 which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
 had met,
 my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > 
unwanted
 attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > 
seeing
 how
 creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the 
same
 thing,
 ended up following suit.

  I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The 
girl
 was
 very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
 patient
 with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with 
the guys
 than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my 
friend.

  About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started 
calling
 my
 house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the 
other
 parents
 who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could 
swap
 resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her 
parents,
 and
 was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other 
students as well
 although I am not sure.  The calls started off
 being
 about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  
> girl,
 and
 liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > 
friend.
 There
 was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and 
negativity,
 and
 mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much 
sooner
 than
 I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually 
impaired,
 (she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print 
reader,
 and
 kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was 
not the
 worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and 
even tell me
 I
 didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions 
of things
 made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at 
the end of
 my
 junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I 
didn't want
 to
 talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to 
convince her
 that
 blindness didn't mean the end of the world.

  The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
 activities
 and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching 
band
 practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the 
girl had
 kept
 calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few 
hours.
 They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone 
told her
 I
 wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things 
to
 herself,
 and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue 
calling
 either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that 
year, she
 called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the 
house,
 which
 I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for 
the
 holidays
 with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my 
cell phone
 number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and 
she started
 to
 get upset.
  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic 
mumbling.

  My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that 
I've been
 in
 college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
 told her
 that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > 
times. My
 younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > 
moved away
 and
 have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to 
discourage
 her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around 
Christmas it is
 always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents 
were
 asleep
 a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and 
left
 messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up 
very early
 for
 work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a 
message from
 playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was 
exactly the
 same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was 
asleep
 when
 she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a 
late hour
 didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and 
usual stuff
 coming over the  > line.

  I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with 
her
 and
 that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer 
live
 at home
 and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > 
nothing
 seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house 
as well,
 even though he does not live at home any more either.
  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her 
and she
 barely
 knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > 
no
 success.
 My parents and siblings have said that we should just
 block her
 calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high 
school
 because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot 
about her
 for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last 
semester
 because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a 
few nights
 ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly 
creeped out
 that
 even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the 
past year
 and
 a
 half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I 
should do?

  -- Kaiti

  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing 
list
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 --
 Kaiti

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From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 28 03:16:04 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:16:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D38D8C0A-B2E4-4F44-9BB4-2426E49DAE0E@yahoo.com>

I would suggest calling her house and speaking with her parents. Or having her phone number blocked. 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
> 
> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
> Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
> and parents from around the state different employment options that
> were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
> the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
> thing, ended up following suit.
> 
> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
> friend.
> 
> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
> other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
> could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
> her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
> students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
> and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
> a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
> other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
> and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
> mean the end of the world.
> 
> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
> band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
> had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
> hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
> told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
> to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
> continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
> that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
> the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
> town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
> give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
> it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
> there was the characteristic mumbling.
> 
> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
> called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
> up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
> a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
> was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
> I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
> such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
> and usual stuff coming over the line.
> 
> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
> home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
> don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
> barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
> success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
> her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
> school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
> few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
> creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
> the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
> think I should do?
> 
>  --
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com

From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 03:47:53 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:47:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009c01cf037f$96cd4a80$c467df80$@net>

Perhaps her parents know what she is doing, and perhaps they don't, or maybe
they do not know the extent. I'm  not sure if this girl is in danger of
hurting herself or anyone else, but reguardless I think someone else who is
more capable of handling the situation should be informed. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Webster
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:46 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I mean
it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her parents
or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but you
may need to take such actions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her 
> upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not 
> taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> 
> A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but 
> there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some 
> issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take 
> her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she 
> also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop 
> talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so 
> I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then 
> she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was 
> in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to 
> her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend, 
> so I thought things would be going better.
> 
> If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how 
> that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she 
> was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> 
> I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness 
> issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and 
> said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> 
>> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a 
>> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I 
>> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a 
>> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried 
>> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to 
>> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking 
>> about it.  So.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth 
>> Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list

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From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 03:52:20 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 22:52:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
Message-ID: <00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>

What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music that
sound would come to me automatically. 
Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which the
notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th notes
are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added. 
I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
learning Braille music. 
Hope this helps. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
trising at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn Braille
music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what
I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. Sandra,
how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get
it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox 


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net



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 04:00:48 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:00:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002301cf0381$64c52560$2e4f7020$@gmail.com>

Continuing to call someone who has expressed that you should not do so is
against the law; they could have her number blocked if they wanted. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dave Webster
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:46 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I mean
it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her parents
or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but you
may need to take such actions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her 
> upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not 
> taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> 
> A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but 
> there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some 
> issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take 
> her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she 
> also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop 
> talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so 
> I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then 
> she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was 
> in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to 
> her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend, 
> so I thought things would be going better.
> 
> If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how 
> that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she 
> was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> 
> I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness 
> issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and 
> said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> 
>> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a 
>> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I 
>> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a 
>> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried 
>> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to 
>> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking 
>> about it.  So.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth 
>> Taurasi
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 04:09:19 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:09:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to learn 
to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille Music! I 
actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just wanted to 
ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music while I'm 
learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention that you 
play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to play notes, but I'm 
struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can learn how to 
read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just wondering. 
Thanks so much and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music that
sound would come to me automatically.
Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which the
notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th notes
are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
learning Braille music.
Hope this helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
trising at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn Braille
music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what
I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. Sandra,
how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get
it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
net


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From tyler at tysdomain.com  Sat Dec 28 04:23:06 2013
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:23:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <D38D8C0A-B2E4-4F44-9BB4-2426E49DAE0E@yahoo.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D38D8C0A-B2E4-4F44-9BB4-2426E49DAE0E@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52BE522A.5060106@tysdomain.com>

Hello:
I don't know what good calling the house will do. I think at this point 
you should just call and get the number blocked and let that be that. 
It's not the best of solutions, but calling her parents might just make 
things worse.
HTH,
On 12/27/2013 10:16 PM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
> I would suggest calling her house and speaking with her parents. Or having her phone number blocked.
>
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>
>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
>> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>
>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
>> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
>> Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
>> and parents from around the state different employment options that
>> were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
>> the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
>> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
>> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
>> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
>> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
>> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
>> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
>> thing, ended up following suit.
>>
>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
>> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
>> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
>> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
>> friend.
>>
>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
>> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
>> other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
>> could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
>> her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
>> students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
>> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
>> and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
>> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
>> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
>> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
>> a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
>> other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
>> and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
>> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
>> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
>> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
>> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
>> mean the end of the world.
>>
>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
>> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
>> band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
>> had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
>> hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
>> told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
>> to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
>> continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
>> that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
>> the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
>> town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
>> give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
>> it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
>> there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>
>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
>> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
>> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
>> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
>> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
>> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
>> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
>> called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
>> up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
>> a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
>> was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
>> I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
>> such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
>> and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>
>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
>> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
>> home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
>> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
>> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
>> don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
>> barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
>> success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
>> her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
>> school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
>> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
>> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
>> few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
>> creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
>> the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
>> think I should do?
>>
>>   --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com


-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.
Sent from my Toaster (tm).



From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 04:27:29 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:27:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>
	<BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>

I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like string music in cords and such. I don't play guitar personally, but the book I mentioned earlier may have some suggestions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to learn to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention that you play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just wondering. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
> eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
> play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
> major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music that
> sound would come to me automatically.
> Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which the
> notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
> corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
> are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
> Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th notes
> are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
> I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
> learning Braille music.
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> trising at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> Hello:
> 
>    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
> also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn Braille
> music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
> improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what
> I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
> Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
> says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
> high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. Sandra,
> how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get
> it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
> question is clearer than mud!!
> 
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
> net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 04:33:48 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind
	Students List
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS70391146E859D86379586F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of them. Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of them. Thanks and God bless! 
-------------- next part --------------
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 04:37:35 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:37:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net><BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
	<7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS31A8A7C50E52803AB1593F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Lillie, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, where could I get the 
book that you mention earlier? Just wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like string music in 
cords and such. I don't play guitar personally, but the book I mentioned 
earlier may have some suggestions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to 
> learn to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille 
> Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just 
> wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille 
> music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you 
> mention that you play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to 
> play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know 
> where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille 
> Music? Just wondering. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
> eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
> play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
> major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music 
> that
> sound would come to me automatically.
> Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which 
> the
> notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
> corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
> are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
> Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th 
> notes
> are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
> I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
> learning Braille music.
> Hope this helps.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> trising at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> Hello:
>
>    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
> also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn 
> Braille
> music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
> improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, 
> what
> I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
> Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
> says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
> high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. 
> Sandra,
> how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and 
> get
> it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
> question is clearer than mud!!
>
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 04:41:24 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS31A8A7C50E52803AB1593F5CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net><BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl><7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
	<BLU172-DS31A8A7C50E52803AB1593F5CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS167F74CA17E809FD214085F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Lillie, this is Helga again. I forgot to ask you, is the book's name How 
to Read Braille Music? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hi Lillie, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, where could I get the
book that you mention earlier? Just wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like string music in
cords and such. I don't play guitar personally, but the book I mentioned
earlier may have some suggestions.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to 
> learn to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille 
> Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just 
> wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille 
> music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you 
> mention that you play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to 
> play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know 
> where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille 
> Music? Just wondering. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
> eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
> play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
> major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music 
> that
> sound would come to me automatically.
> Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which 
> the
> notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
> corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
> are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
> Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th 
> notes
> are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
> I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
> learning Braille music.
> Hope this helps.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> trising at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> Hello:
>
>    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
> also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn 
> Braille
> music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
> improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, 
> what
> I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
> Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
> says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
> high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. 
> Sandra,
> how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and 
> get
> it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
> question is clearer than mud!!
>
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From merlyn_hileman at aol.com  Sat Dec 28 05:01:53 2013
From: merlyn_hileman at aol.com (Merlyn Hileman)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:01:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind
 Students List
Message-ID: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Helga,
Are you referring to the BrailleNote Users list? I am on that list, and
the website that runs it is freelists.org. Go to that site and search 
for the BrailleNote Users list.

Merlyn Hileman


-----Original Message-----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 10:35 pm
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of
Blind Students List

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can
I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering,
since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of
them. Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I
will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of
them. Thanks and God
bless!_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com






From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 05:10:09 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:10:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind
	Students List
In-Reply-To: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS7B276229A9D0B70E879BBF5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Merlyn, this is Helga. Yeah, I'm referring to the BrailleNote Users list. 
I just go to this website that you told me and search for it right? Just 
curious! And that's great to know that you are in there. Thanks and God 
bless!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Merlyn Hileman
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 12:01 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind 
Students List

Hi Helga,
Are you referring to the BrailleNote Users list? I am on that list, and
the website that runs it is freelists.org. Go to that site and search
for the BrailleNote Users list.

Merlyn Hileman


-----Original Message-----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 10:35 pm
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of
Blind Students List

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can
I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering,
since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of
them. Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I
will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of
them. Thanks and God
bless!_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com





_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 05:34:56 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:34:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind
	Students List
In-Reply-To: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS1219770C05EEE0F6591AF3F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hi Merlyn, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I went to the 
website freelists.org right now, but I wasn't able to find the BrailleNote 
Users List, and just to let you know, I actually search for it for a long 
time, but I couldn't find it. I just wanted to ask you, would it be possible 
for you to send me the exact link of the BrailleNote Users List, in order to 
become a member, and be part of them? I will really appreciate it. Thanks so 
much and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Merlyn Hileman
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 12:01 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind 
Students List

Hi Helga,
Are you referring to the BrailleNote Users list? I am on that list, and
the website that runs it is freelists.org. Go to that site and search
for the BrailleNote Users list.

Merlyn Hileman


-----Original Message-----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 10:35 pm
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of
Blind Students List

Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can
I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering,
since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of
them. Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I
will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of
them. Thanks and God
bless!_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com





_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From jhud7789 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 07:30:35 2013
From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 01:30:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind
	Students List
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS1219770C05EEE0F6591AF3F5CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <8D0D1A10EF7579F-1E18-4BD47@webmail-d229.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU172-DS1219770C05EEE0F6591AF3F5CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0B182A7D-5AD5-46BC-A4EF-4D92373D9D3D@gmail.com>

Hello Helga, I will send the direct link to this list for the Brownlow users group. For you, and anybody else who might want it.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:34 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Merlyn, this is Helga. I just wanted to tell you that I went to the website freelists.org right now, but I wasn't able to find the BrailleNote Users List, and just to let you know, I actually search for it for a long time, but I couldn't find it. I just wanted to ask you, would it be possible for you to send me the exact link of the BrailleNote Users List, in order to become a member, and be part of them? I will really appreciate it. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Merlyn Hileman
> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 12:01 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of Blind Students List
> 
> Hi Helga,
> Are you referring to the BrailleNote Users list? I am on that list, and
> the website that runs it is freelists.org. Go to that site and search
> for the BrailleNote Users list.
> 
> Merlyn Hileman
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Fri, Dec 27, 2013 10:35 pm
> Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of
> Blind Students List
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can
> I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering,
> since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of
> them. Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I
> will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of
> them. Thanks and God
> bless!_______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 08:36:40 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:36:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <52BE522A.5060106@tysdomain.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D38D8C0A-B2E4-4F44-9BB4-2426E49DAE0E@yahoo.com>
	<52BE522A.5060106@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fab_BqGpDNn1q-XvgEFGppA+8FZK6V1YSzHq7-CF6Mpug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm honestly not sure if this is a cognitive disability at work or
not, though I have questioned that.  It's difficult for me to tell if
she just isn't understanding what I and others are saying to her but
is just getting tired of hearing multiple people tell her the same
thing over and over again, which she doesn't agree with; or if it is a
case of psychological issues at work.  Either way, I know her parents
are already aware of it because even at the program her mother would
do things like pull her aside every so often, mostly when she was
around and could notice that the girl was making someone else feel
uncomfortable.  The mom did not willingly give the list of names and
phone numbers to her daughter---she took it, and I'm guessing either
saved the numbers in the phone somehow or wrote them down.  It's very
possible that her parents do not even know she's doing this with
students from this weekend program a few years ago, but I have heard
her parents ask who she is talking to a few times and she's mumbled in
response.  I'm really not sure if this is cognitive or psychological,
since she seems to be pretty methodical.  As far as I can tell she
doesn't seem to pose a threat to anyone else or herself, and she never
mentioned anything like self-harm to me.

As before, I will take the suggestion to offer assistance through a
help line of some sort the next time she calls.  I do not know if I
will intercept the next call while I am on break; I have social plans
and other things going on so it's possible that she might not try to
call back for another few weeks when I will be back at school.
However, the next time I do get her I will give this a try.

I wish I could help her, and feel like I've tried to, but it's awkward
because I barely know her and the conversations we've had have been
very strange for the most part.  I am not a professional councelor,
but I recognize that she needs someone to talk to now that I've
thought about it and can look past the shock of, "She still calls me?"

On 12/27/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
> Hello:
> I don't know what good calling the house will do. I think at this point
> you should just call and get the number blocked and let that be that.
> It's not the best of solutions, but calling her parents might just make
> things worse.
> HTH,
> On 12/27/2013 10:16 PM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
>> I would suggest calling her house and speaking with her parents. Or having
>> her phone number blocked.
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>
>>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
>>> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
>>> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
>>> Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
>>> and parents from around the state different employment options that
>>> were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
>>> the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
>>> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
>>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
>>> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
>>> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
>>> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
>>> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
>>> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
>>> thing, ended up following suit.
>>>
>>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
>>> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
>>> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
>>> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
>>> friend.
>>>
>>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
>>> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
>>> other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
>>> could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
>>> her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
>>> students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
>>> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
>>> and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
>>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
>>> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
>>> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
>>> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
>>> a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
>>> other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
>>> and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
>>> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
>>> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
>>> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
>>> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
>>> mean the end of the world.
>>>
>>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
>>> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
>>> band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
>>> had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
>>> hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
>>> told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
>>> to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
>>> continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
>>> that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
>>> the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
>>> town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
>>> give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
>>> it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
>>> there was the characteristic mumbling.
>>>
>>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
>>> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
>>> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
>>> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
>>> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
>>> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
>>> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
>>> called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
>>> up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
>>> a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
>>> was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
>>> I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
>>> such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
>>> and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>>
>>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
>>> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
>>> home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
>>> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
>>> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
>>> don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
>>> barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
>>> success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
>>> her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
>>> school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
>>> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
>>> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
>>> few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
>>> creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
>>> the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
>>> think I should do?
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that
> dares not reason is a slave.
> Sent from my Toaster (tm).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 08:51:06 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:51:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of
	BlindStudents List
Message-ID: <52be9123.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d8@mx.google.com>


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a 
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association 
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you, 
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just 
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would 
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the 
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if 
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God 
bless!


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 08:51:04 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 00:51:04 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52be9121.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d6@mx.google.com>


Would you like a cheet sheet that someone gave me?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:09:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on 
how to learn
to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read Braille 
Music! I
actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the way, I just 
wanted to
ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music 
while I'm
learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention 
that you
play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually know how to play 
notes, but I'm
struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can 
learn how to
read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just 
wondering.
Thanks so much and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such 
as a c
eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum 
that note or
play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other 
notes in a
major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of 
music that
sound would come to me automatically.
Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations 
in which the
notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of 
their
corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and 
b, which
are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a 
dot 6 added.
Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes 
and 16th notes
are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a 
resource for
learning Braille music.
Hope this helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
trising at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind 
Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I 
am a soprano
as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of 
year.  I
also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to 
learn Braille
music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped 
people
improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille 
music, what
I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and 
not in
Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain 
instantly
says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear 
and got
high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of 
benefit.  Sandra,
how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as 
Braille and get
it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I 
hope this
question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
ton%40fuse.
net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 09:10:53 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:10:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
	of	BlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52be9123.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d8@mx.google.com>
References: <52be9123.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS317B239675822C249BA2815F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa!I just  wanted to ask you, are you part of them? :-) Thanks and God bless!!:-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2013, at 3:52 AM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a blank message to:
> braillenote-requests at freelists.org
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association of BlindStudents List
> 
> Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you, how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God bless!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 09:30:16 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:30:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <52be9121.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d6@mx.google.com>
References: <52be9121.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS25824694C9252172BE50419F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Yeah! I would love to have it! :-) Does it involve reading guitar chords and notes in Braille   music? :-) thanks and God bless! :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2013, at 3:52 AM, "marissa" <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Would you like a cheet sheet that someone gave me?
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:09:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to learn
> to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read Braille Music! I
> actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the way, I just wanted to
> ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music while I'm
> learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention that you
> play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually know how to play notes, but I'm
> struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can learn how to
> read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just wondering.
> Thanks so much and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
> eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum that note or
> play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
> major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music that
> sound would come to me automatically.
> Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which the
> notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
> corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
> are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
> Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes and 16th notes
> are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
> I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
> learning Braille music.
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> trising at sbcglobal.net
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
> To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> Hello:
> 
>    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year.  I
> also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to learn Braille
> music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
> improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what
> I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
> Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
> says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and got
> high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit.  Sandra,
> how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get
> it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
> question is clearer than mud!!
> 
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
> ton%40fuse.
> net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
> er%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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From i.c.bray at win.net  Sat Dec 28 11:30:09 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:30:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>

Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )

I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.

To everyone,

Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are 
definitely separate.
Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be genuine 
and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or 
relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.

If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should 
come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.

Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal & 
private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here 
with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are 
welcome to it.

My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and 
does tons of comunity outreach.
I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a 
progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed 
without shame, or embarrassment.

The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline personality 
trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates 
films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and
The Graduate and even Risky Business.

advice:
Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes 
that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you 
get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you 
should let your freak flag fly.
We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is based 
upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to do.
Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at a 
cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.

Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive 
subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!

Respectfully,
Ian  C. Bray
Louisville, KY.



From i.c.bray at win.net  Sat Dec 28 11:41:13 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:41:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com><CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <FE74EBBA601F4EE5A6AFE4E514DE8391@JAWS>

Lilly,
I completely agree!!  The description of behavior  scratches a tender spot, 
but worries me too.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?


:I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her 
parents or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option 
but you may need to take such actions.
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
: >
: > Hi,
: >
: > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
: > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
: > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
: >
: > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
: > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
: > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
: > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
: > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
: > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
: > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
: > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
: > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
: > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
: > so I thought things would be going better.
: >
: > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
: > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
: > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
: >
: > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
: > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
: > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
: >
: >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
: >> tendency
: >> to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean 
to
: >> embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish 
which
: >> I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists 
about
: >> it
: >> but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want 
to
: >> touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.
: >>
: >> -----Original Message-----
: >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth 
Taurasi
: >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
: >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 11:42:41 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:42:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
	Associationof	BlindStudents List
Message-ID: <52beb95b.87c5440a.6745.ffffeaf9@mx.google.com>


Yep, that's why I know the exact email.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:10:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote 
Associationof	BlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!I just  wanted to ask you, are you part of them? :-) 
Thanks and God bless!!:-)

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 28, 2013, at 3:52 AM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with 
a blank message to:
 braillenote-requests at freelists.org


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association 
of BlindStudents List

 Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you, 
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just 
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would 
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the 
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if 
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God 
bless!

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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ife7%40gmail.com


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 11:42:46 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:42:46 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52beb960.87c5440a.6745.ffffeafe@mx.google.com>


It's made for piano.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 04:30:16 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Yeah! I would love to have it! :-) Does it involve reading guitar 
chords and notes in Braille   music? :-) thanks and God bless! 
:-)

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 28, 2013, at 3:52 AM, "marissa" 
<pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:


 Would you like a cheet sheet that someone gave me?


 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:09:19 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

 Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on 
how to learn
 to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read Braille 
Music! I
 actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the way, I 
just wanted to
 ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille 
music while I'm
 learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you 
mention that you
 play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually know how to play 
notes, but I'm
 struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can 
learn how to
 read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just 
wondering.
 Thanks so much and God bless! :)

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Lillie Pennington
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

 What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such 
as a c
 eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum 
that note or
 play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other 
notes in a
 major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of 
music that
 sound would come to me automatically.
 Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations 
in which the
 notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of 
their
 corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a 
and b, which
 are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a 
dot 6 added.
 Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes 
and 16th notes
 are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
 I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a 
resource for
 learning Braille music.
 Hope this helps.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 trising at sbcglobal.net
 Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
 To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind 
Students mailing
 list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

 Hello:

    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am 
a soprano
 as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time 
of year.  I
 also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to 
learn Braille
 music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped 
people
 improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille 
music, what
 I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and 
not in
 Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain 
instantly
 says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by 
ear and got
 high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of 
benefit.  Sandra,
 how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as 
Braille and get
 it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I 
hope this
 question is clearer than mud!!

 Merry Christmas from
 Terri and Nick Wilcox


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 nabs-l:
 
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 ton%40fuse.
 net


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 ife7%40gmail.com

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From i.c.bray at win.net  Sat Dec 28 11:49:10 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 06:49:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com><CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com><E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>

Dave,
It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially dangerous 
for Kaiti .

Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed under a 
court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?

I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is beginning 
to feel in over her head.

Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be firm.

Ian


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?


:I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I 
mean
: it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
: won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
: Pennington
: Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
:
: I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her 
parents
: or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but 
you
: may need to take such actions.
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
: wrote:
: >
: > Hi,
: >
: > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
: > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
: > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
: >
: > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
: > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
: > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
: > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
: > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
: > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
: > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
: > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
: > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
: > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
: > so I thought things would be going better.
: >
: > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
: > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
: > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
: >
: > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
: > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
: > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
: >
: >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
: >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I
: >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
: >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried
: >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to
: >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
: >> about it.  So.
: >>
: >> -----Original Message-----
: >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
: >> Taurasi
: >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
: >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From merlyn_hileman at aol.com  Sat Dec 28 12:59:09 2013
From: merlyn_hileman at aol.com (Merlyn Hileman)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 07:59:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
References: <D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
Message-ID: <8D0D1E3BB7B7E35-1D80-2C708@webmail-d171.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Kaiti,

 From your description of how her parents interact with her, I don't 
think she has a cognitive disability (at least not one serious enough 
to have trouble telling right from wrong). It also sounds like you have 
done everything you can think of to help her. What I am going to 
suggest might sound harsh, but this girl needs to realize you don't 
want her calling you anymore.
The next time she calls your home, whoever picks up--you or a family 
member), should tell her that you have done all you can to help her, 
that you have suggested help lines she can call, and that you cannot 
think of anything else to do for her. Then tell her plainly that she 
must stop calling your home. Tell her that if she continues to call, 
you will not answer the phone (assuming you have a caller ID feature on 
your phone). If you cannot tell who is calling until you answer, tell 
her you will block her number or change yours if she continues to call. 
Remind her of the numbers to call for the help lines, and hang up the 
phone.
However you do it, you need to cut off communication with her. You have 
been patient for two years in high school, and your family has put up 
with her through almost two years of college. You need to move on with 
your life.

Merlyn Hileman


-----Original Message-----
From: I. C. Bray <i.c.bray at win.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2013 5:49 am
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?

Dave,
It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially 
dangerous
for Kaiti .

Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed 
under a
court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?

I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is 
beginning
to feel in over her head.

Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be 
firm.

Ian


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?


:I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  
I
mean
: it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  
Authorities
: won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
: Pennington
: Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... 
advice?
:
: I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her
parents
: or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option 
but
you
: may need to take such actions.
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
<crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
: wrote:
: >
: > Hi,
: >
: > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
: > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
: > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
: >
: > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
: > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
: > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't 
take
: > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
: > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would 
stop
: > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, 
so
: > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
: > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This 
was
: > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked 
to
: > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
: > so I thought things would be going better.
: >
: > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
: > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
: > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
: >
: > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of 
blindness
: > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done 
and
: > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
: >
: >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
: >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships. 
 I
: >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
: >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've 
tried
: >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them 
to
: >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
: >> about it.  So.
: >>
: >> -----Original Message-----
: >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
: >> Taurasi
: >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
: >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
:
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:
:
: _______________________________________________
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: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
: 
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From andrewjedg at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 13:22:17 2013
From: andrewjedg at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:22:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <8D0D1E3BB7B7E35-1D80-2C708@webmail-d171.sysops.aol.com>
References: <D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<8D0D1E3BB7B7E35-1D80-2C708@webmail-d171.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAM342zbjBJd9sqD9La0KExuQYs5btM_NhoZNQNLOOBgKR=2qOg@mail.gmail.com>

well I don't know the situation  to be able to say much but I feel
that  it sounds like to me anyway that she does not want to be helped
or except help  it becomes a things we it becomes the line where we
help those who help themselves. quite frankly you need to just go
ahead and block her number now and move on don't even put up with her
in 2014

On 12/28/13, Merlyn Hileman <merlyn_hileman at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
>
>  From your description of how her parents interact with her, I don't
> think she has a cognitive disability (at least not one serious enough
> to have trouble telling right from wrong). It also sounds like you have
> done everything you can think of to help her. What I am going to
> suggest might sound harsh, but this girl needs to realize you don't
> want her calling you anymore.
> The next time she calls your home, whoever picks up--you or a family
> member), should tell her that you have done all you can to help her,
> that you have suggested help lines she can call, and that you cannot
> think of anything else to do for her. Then tell her plainly that she
> must stop calling your home. Tell her that if she continues to call,
> you will not answer the phone (assuming you have a caller ID feature on
> your phone). If you cannot tell who is calling until you answer, tell
> her you will block her number or change yours if she continues to call.
> Remind her of the numbers to call for the help lines, and hang up the
> phone.
> However you do it, you need to cut off communication with her. You have
> been patient for two years in high school, and your family has put up
> with her through almost two years of college. You need to move on with
> your life.
>
> Merlyn Hileman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I. C. Bray <i.c.bray at win.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2013 5:49 am
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
> Dave,
> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
> dangerous
> for Kaiti .
>
> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed
> under a
> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>
> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
> beginning
> to feel in over her head.
>
> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be
> firm.
>
> Ian
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
>
> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.
> I
> mean
> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
> Authorities
> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
> : Pennington
> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
> :
> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her
> parents
> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option
> but
> you
> : may need to take such actions.
> :
> : Sent from my iPhone
> :
> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> : wrote:
> : >
> : > Hi,
> : >
> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> : >
> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't
> take
> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
> stop
> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying,
> so
> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This
> was
> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked
> to
> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
> : > so I thought things would be going better.
> : >
> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> : >
> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
> blindness
> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done
> and
> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> : >
> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.
>  I
> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've
> tried
> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them
> to
> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
> : >> about it.  So.
> : >>
> : >> -----Original Message-----
> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
> : >> Taurasi
> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merlyn_hileman%40aol.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/andrewjedg%40gmail.com
>


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 14:01:38 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:01:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS167F74CA17E809FD214085F5CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>
	<BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
	<7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
	<BLU172-DS31A8A7C50E52803AB1593F5CC0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU172-DS167F74CA17E809FD214085F5CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A198DB74-AA60-433E-BB8E-2B04734AAE48@fuse.net>

Yes, that is what the book is called. I am not sure who it is bye or where you. Can find it, but it's pretty commonly known.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:41 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga again. I forgot to ask you, is the book's name How to Read Braille Music? Just curious! Thanks and God bless!! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Helga Schreiber
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. I just wanted to ask you, where could I get the
> book that you mention earlier? Just wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
> 
> I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like string music in
> cords and such. I don't play guitar personally, but the book I mentioned
> earlier may have some suggestions.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to learn to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention that you play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just wondering. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 14:30:01 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:30:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
Message-ID: <003f01cf03d9$4b06b0f0$e11412d0$@gmail.com>

Hahaha, I hate pointless messages about as much as you do, but in my
relatively short return to the NABS list, the message below was the most
hilarious one so far. I'm really trying not to make this a waste of your
time to read, especially in light of the serious topic, but nothing I could
write could top the carefree writing below. It made a Republican grin, and
that's saying something. A bit bold, but there are nuggets of wisdom in
Ian's colorful contribution.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )

I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.

To everyone,

Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are
definitely separate.
Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be genuine
and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or
relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.

If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should
come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.

Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal &
private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here
with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are
welcome to it.

My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and
does tons of comunity outreach.
I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a 
progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed
without shame, or embarrassment.

The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline personality
trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates
films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and The Graduate and even Risky Business.

advice:
Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes
that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you
get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you
should let your freak flag fly.
We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is based
upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to do.
Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at a
cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.

Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive
subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!

Respectfully,
Ian  C. Bray
Louisville, KY.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 14:33:20 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:33:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <003f01cf03d9$4b06b0f0$e11412d0$@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
	<003f01cf03d9$4b06b0f0$e11412d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01cf03d9$c1f94880$45ebd980$@gmail.com>

I'm sensing another discussion group forming...  Grin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 9:30 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Hahaha, I hate pointless messages about as much as you do, but in my
relatively short return to the NABS list, the message below was the most
hilarious one so far. I'm really trying not to make this a waste of your
time to read, especially in light of the serious topic, but nothing I could
write could top the carefree writing below. It made a Republican grin, and
that's saying something. A bit bold, but there are nuggets of wisdom in
Ian's colorful contribution.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )

I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.

To everyone,

Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are
definitely separate.
Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be genuine
and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or
relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.

If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should
come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.

Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal &
private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here
with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are
welcome to it.

My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and
does tons of comunity outreach.
I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a 
progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed
without shame, or embarrassment.

The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline personality
trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates
films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and The Graduate and even Risky Business.

advice:
Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes
that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you
get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you
should let your freak flag fly.
We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is based
upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to do.
Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at a
cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.

Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive
subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!

Respectfully,
Ian  C. Bray
Louisville, KY.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From i.c.bray at win.net  Sat Dec 28 15:26:31 2013
From: i.c.bray at win.net (I. C. Bray)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:26:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS><003f01cf03d9$4b06b0f0$e11412d0$@gmail.com>
	<000a01cf03d9$c1f94880$45ebd980$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A50A6195E58749A1B80491971669038B@JAWS>

Justin, & Joe...


Am I sencing sarcasm here, or are you two genuinely expressing approval?

Justin, What discussion group would that be?
"Blind Sexuality" GRIN
or
"Blind Fettish" ROFL

Joe,
"COLORFUL"... is that "Republican Code" for something else?
SMILE.

Cheers!
Ian.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?


: I'm sensing another discussion group forming...  Grin.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
: Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 9:30 AM
: To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
:
: Hahaha, I hate pointless messages about as much as you do, but in my
: relatively short return to the NABS list, the message below was the most
: hilarious one so far. I'm really trying not to make this a waste of your
: time to read, especially in light of the serious topic, but nothing I 
could
: write could top the carefree writing below. It made a Republican grin, and
: that's saying something. A bit bold, but there are nuggets of wisdom in
: Ian's colorful contribution.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
: Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:30 AM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
:
: Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )
:
: I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.
:
: To everyone,
:
: Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are
: definitely separate.
: Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
: I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be 
genuine
: and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or
: relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.
:
: If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should
: come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.
:
: Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal &
: private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here
: with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are
: welcome to it.
:
: My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and
: does tons of comunity outreach.
: I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a
: progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed
: without shame, or embarrassment.
:
: The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline 
personality
: trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
: Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates
: films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and The Graduate and even Risky 
Business.
:
: advice:
: Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes
: that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
: I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
: For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you
: get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you
: should let your freak flag fly.
: We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is 
based
: upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to 
do.
: Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at 
a
: cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.
:
: Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive
: subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!
:
: Respectfully,
: Ian  C. Bray
: Louisville, KY.
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
: nabs-l:
: 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
: .com
:
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
: To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Dec 28 15:58:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:58:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net>
	<BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9079D638557F4FBD920DFCF0E33E465E@OwnerPC>

helga,
I think the distance ed school for the  blind, hadley, has a braille music 
class.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to learn
to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille Music! I
actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just wanted to
ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music while I'm
learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention that you
play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to play notes, but I'm
struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can learn how to
read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just wondering.
Thanks so much and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in a
major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music that
sound would come to me automatically.
Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which the
notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, which
are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 added.
Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th notes
are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
learning Braille music.
Hope this helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
trising at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn Braille
music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, what
I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. Sandra,
how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and get
it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope this
question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox


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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 16:25:19 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:25:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52befb98.4a14450a.3598.4926@mx.google.com>



Here's the chart.  Not sure what format you need so here



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:58:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

helga,
I think the distance ed school for the  blind, hadley, has a 
braille music
class.

-----Original Message-----
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:09 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on 
how to learn
to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read Braille 
Music! I
actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the way, I just 
wanted to
ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille music 
while I'm
learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you mention 
that you
play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually know how to play 
notes, but I'm
struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know where I can 
learn how to
read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille Music? Just 
wondering.
Thanks so much and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lillie Pennington
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such 
as a c
eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum 
that note or
play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other 
notes in a
major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of 
music that
sound would come to me automatically.
Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations 
in which the
notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of 
their
corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and 
b, which
are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a 
dot 6 added.
Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes 
and 16th notes
are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a 
resource for
learning Braille music.
Hope this helps.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
trising at sbcglobal.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind 
Students mailing
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I 
am a soprano
as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of 
year.  I
also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to 
learn Braille
music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped 
people
improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille 
music, what
I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and 
not in
Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain 
instantly
says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear 
and got
high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of 
benefit.  Sandra,
how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as 
Braille and get
it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I 
hope this
question is clearer than mud!!

Merry Christmas from
Terri and Nick Wilcox


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
ton%40fuse.
net


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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nabs-l:
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er%40hotmail.com


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nabs-l:
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0earthlink.net


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ife7%40gmail.com
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 16:33:56 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 09:33:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <A50A6195E58749A1B80491971669038B@JAWS>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
	<003f01cf03d9$4b06b0f0$e11412d0$@gmail.com>
	<000a01cf03d9$c1f94880$45ebd980$@gmail.com>
	<A50A6195E58749A1B80491971669038B@JAWS>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBpfA4s0UCpUzXVHdpu3sSB2r5L-fLZZ0WAM83n8WwWnw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti,
I think your plan is a good one. I am not in favor of blocking calls
from people or notifying a third party unless the situation is really
serious enough to cause significant harm. This girl's calls sound
obnoxious and difficult but don't constitute direct harm to you or
your family members. In my experience being straightforward with
people has always worked best, and is much better than doing things
behind someone's back. Decide what your boundaries are, communicate
them clearly to her and reiterate them if she attempts to cross them.
She may have no idea that her calls are unwanted and then feel
betrayed if she is suddenly blocked from calling you. Some people just
need to be told in very clear terms that they have crossed a line. You
can always decide to let her call go to voice mail if you are
genuinely too busy or otherwise unable to handle the strong emotional
content at the time she calls, then call her back later when you have
more time and energy to work with her. As for your parents and
siblings, perhaps it's reasonable for them to screen out any calls
that come in for you while you are away at school, including calls
from her. They can give you the messages and then you can decide if
you want to talk to her or just let the calls go.
Best,
Arielle

On 12/28/13, I. C. Bray <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> Justin, & Joe...
>
>
> Am I sencing sarcasm here, or are you two genuinely expressing approval?
>
> Justin, What discussion group would that be?
> "Blind Sexuality" GRIN
> or
> "Blind Fettish" ROFL
>
> Joe,
> "COLORFUL"... is that "Republican Code" for something else?
> SMILE.
>
> Cheers!
> Ian.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "justin williams" <justin.williams2 at gmail.com>
> To: <jsoro620 at gmail.com>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 9:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>
>
> : I'm sensing another discussion group forming...  Grin.
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> : Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 9:30 AM
> : To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
> :
> : Hahaha, I hate pointless messages about as much as you do, but in my
> : relatively short return to the NABS list, the message below was the most
> : hilarious one so far. I'm really trying not to make this a waste of your
> : time to read, especially in light of the serious topic, but nothing I
> could
> : write could top the carefree writing below. It made a Republican grin,
> and
> : that's saying something. A bit bold, but there are nuggets of wisdom in
> : Ian's colorful contribution.
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
> : Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:30 AM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
> :
> : Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )
> :
> : I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.
> :
> : To everyone,
> :
> : Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are
> : definitely separate.
> : Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
> : I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be
> genuine
> : and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or
> : relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.
> :
> : If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes
> should
> : come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.
> :
> : Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal &
> : private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here
> : with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are
> : welcome to it.
> :
> : My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and
> : does tons of comunity outreach.
> : I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a
> : progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed
> : without shame, or embarrassment.
> :
> : The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline
> personality
> : trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
> : Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates
> : films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and The Graduate and even Risky
> Business.
> :
> : advice:
> : Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the
> hopes
> : that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
> : I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
> : For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you
> : get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you
> : should let your freak flag fly.
> : We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is
> based
> : upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to
> do.
> : Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at
>
> a
> : cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.
> :
> : Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive
> : subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!
> :
> : Respectfully,
> : Ian  C. Bray
> : Louisville, KY.
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> :
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> : .com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From emilypennington at fuse.net  Sat Dec 28 16:51:54 2013
From: emilypennington at fuse.net (Emily Pennington)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:51:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><00a901cf0380$392a3b80$ab7eb280$@net><BLU172-DS1548BA333F586F4B8B6B21F5CC0@phx.gbl>
	<7D2B69CF-278F-44B9-8DF2-9EE2C39754F8@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <2B7CB6CAC7234770B3582A16252BD29F@EmilyDesktopPC>

Hi all,
Many years ago, when I was learning how to read Braille music, I read the 
book Lillie mentioned. Although it dealt mostly with the foundations and 
piano music, it had sections for other types of instruments -- even 
percussion. I distinctly recall that it had a section for string 
instruments.

Hope this helps,
Emily
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music


>I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like string music 
>in cords and such. I don't play guitar personally, but the book I mentioned 
>earlier may have some suggestions.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber" 
>> <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lillie, this is Helga. Thanks so much for the suggestions on how to 
>> learn to read Braille Music. I really don't know how to read Braille 
>> Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar. By the way, I just 
>> wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read Braille 
>> music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, since you 
>> mention that you play some notes on the piano. I'm actually know how to 
>> play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do you know 
>> where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in Braille 
>> Music? Just wondering. Thanks so much and God bless! :)
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>>
>> What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such as a c
>> eighth note, or just a c in general. I would either then hum that note or
>> play it on the piano. I did this often enough for all the other notes in 
>> a
>> major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of music 
>> that
>> sound would come to me automatically.
>> Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations in which 
>> the
>> notes are built upon. Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of their
>> corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a and b, 
>> which
>> are I and J. Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a dot 6 
>> added.
>> Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added. Hole notes and 16th 
>> notes
>> are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
>> I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a resource for
>> learning Braille music.
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> trising at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
>> To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>>    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
>> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time of year. I
>> also do as much solo work as possible. I would really like to learn 
>> Braille
>> music. I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped people
>> improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille music, 
>> what
>> I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in
>> Braille music. For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly
>> says D and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got
>> high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of benefit. 
>> Sandra,
>> how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as Braille and 
>> get
>> it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I hope 
>> this
>> question is clearer than mud!!
>>
>> Merry Christmas from
>> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.
>> net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 




From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 16:53:33 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 08:53:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52bf0237.0690420a.61ee.682c@mx.google.com>


Where can I get this for free?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Emily Pennington" <emilypennington at fuse.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Hi all,
Many years ago, when I was learning how to read Braille music, I 
read the
book Lillie mentioned.  Although it dealt mostly with the 
foundations and
piano music, it had sections for other types of instruments -- 
even
percussion.  I distinctly recall that it had a section for string
instruments.

Hope this helps,
Emily
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music


I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like 
string music
in cords and such.  I don't play guitar personally, but the book 
I mentioned
earlier may have some suggestions.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber"
 <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on 
how to
 learn to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read 
Braille
 Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the 
way, I just
 wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read 
Braille
 music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!, 
since you
 mention that you play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually 
know how to
 play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do 
you know
 where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in 
Braille
 Music? Just wondering.  Thanks so much and God bless! :)

 -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

 What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such 
as a c
 eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum 
that note or
 play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other 
notes in
 a
 major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of 
music
 that
 sound would come to me automatically.
 Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations 
in which
 the
 notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of 
their
 corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a 
and b,
 which
 are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a 
dot 6
 added.
 Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes 
and 16th
 notes
 are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
 I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a 
resource for
 learning Braille music.
 Hope this helps.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 trising at sbcglobal.net
 Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
 To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind 
Students
 mailing
 list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

 Hello:

    I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am 
a soprano
 as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time 
of year.  I
 also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to 
learn
 Braille
 music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped 
people
 improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille 
music,
 what
 I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and 
not in
 Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain 
instantly
 says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by 
ear and got
 high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of 
benefit.
 Sandra,
 how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as 
Braille and
 get
 it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I 
hope
 this
 question is clearer than mud!!

 Merry Christmas from
 Terri and Nick Wilcox


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
ton%40fuse.
 net


 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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er%40hotmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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ton%40fuse.net

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 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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ife7%40gmail.com


From kobycox at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 17:07:01 2013
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:07:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B94EFD6-09DF-4C08-8A29-0CFE3EFEB556@gmail.com>

Kauri,
Can you please email me off list? I would like to talk to you about marching band. My email address Is:
kobycox at gmail.com.
Thanks,
Koby
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
> 
> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
> Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
> and parents from around the state different employment options that
> were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
> the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
> thing, ended up following suit.
> 
> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
> friend.
> 
> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
> other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
> could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
> her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
> students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
> and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
> a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
> other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
> and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
> mean the end of the world.
> 
> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
> band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
> had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
> hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
> told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
> to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
> continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
> that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
> the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
> town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
> give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
> it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
> there was the characteristic mumbling.
> 
> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
> called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
> up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
> a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
> was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
> I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
> such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
> and usual stuff coming over the line.
> 
> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
> home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
> don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
> barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
> success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
> her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
> school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
> few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
> creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
> the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
> think I should do?
> 
>  --
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 20:41:47 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
	ofBlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52be9123.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d8@mx.google.com>
References: <52be9123.c18f440a.725a.fffff0d8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS6AAF92AD74829B80CD1E8F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this. In fact, 
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order to be part 
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users List. Thanks 
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association 
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 20:47:53 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:47:53 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
	AssociationofBlindStudents List
Message-ID: <52bf3923.a230440a.4c1a.4707@mx.google.com>

Really?
O wow.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote 
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.  
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order 
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users 
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote 
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 20:55:37 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
	BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52bf3923.a230440a.4c1a.4707@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf3923.a230440a.4c1a.4707@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS13CD672B750B0A7174CDCF5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to ask you, are you sure this is the 
right email adress in order to subscribe to the BrailleNote Users List? Just 
wondering. I actually wrote to this email right now, and put in the subjec 
the word "Subscribe" but with not quotes, but then an email came to my inbox 
saying that this email adress doesn't exist! I don't know why it said that! 
Do you know why? Maybe you should check it again? What do you think about 
that? I really want to be part of the BrailleNote Users List! Thanks and God 
bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the 
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 20:56:47 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:56:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of
	theBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
Message-ID: <52bf3b39.68f2440a.1c82.ffff8b89@mx.google.com>


Yep I'm sure.  Did it not work?


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of 
theBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to ask you, are you sure 
this is the
right email adress in order to subscribe to the BrailleNote Users 
List? Just
wondering.  I actually wrote to this email right now, and put in 
the subjec
the word "Subscribe" but with not quotes, but then an email came 
to my inbox
saying that this email adress doesn't exist! I don't know why it 
said that!
Do you know why? Maybe you should check it again? What do you 
think about
that? I really want to be part of the BrailleNote Users List! 
Thanks and God
bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:01:54 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:01:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part
	oftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52bf3b39.68f2440a.1c82.ffff8b89@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf3b39.68f2440a.1c82.ffff8b89@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS214F6446838643EF16C9B8F5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa! Yeah!, it didn't really work. Could yu check it again? Jus 
wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part 
oftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List


Yep I'm sure.  Did it not work?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of
theBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to ask you, are you sure
this is the
right email adress in order to subscribe to the BrailleNote Users
List? Just
wondering.  I actually wrote to this email right now, and put in
the subjec
the word "Subscribe" but with not quotes, but then an email came
to my inbox
saying that this email adress doesn't exist! I don't know why it
said that!
Do you know why? Maybe you should check it again? What do you
think about
that? I really want to be part of the BrailleNote Users List!
Thanks and God
bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:04:25 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:04:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone want to joine these?
Message-ID: <52bf3d03.e45a440a.58f1.6f21@mx.google.com>


Here are some lists I made.
To subscribe:
The music list: musicshare-request at freelists.org
this list is to share, write, and help  others with music.


Fanfictions fanfictions-request at freelists.org
This list is to share, write, and read stories by others.


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:09:17 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:09:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
	BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52bf3923.a230440a.4c1a.4707@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf3923.a230440a.4c1a.4707@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS56CDC2D6FA87835C5D36EF5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa! What's up? Just to let yu know, this is what the email that I 
told you before told me regarding the email adresss of the BrailleNote Users 
List, where it tells me that the email adress doesn't really exist! Thanks 
and God bless! :) Here it is
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

       braillenote-requests at freelists.org

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the 
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:11:43 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:11:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be
	partoftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
Message-ID: <52bf3eb9.23ee440a.78f0.6c67@mx.google.com>


Here you go
 braillenote-request at freelists.org.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:01:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be 
partoftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! Yeah!, it didn't really work.  Could yu check it 
again? Jus
wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part
oftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List


Yep I'm sure.  Did it not work?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of
theBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to ask you, are you sure
this is the
right email adress in order to subscribe to the BrailleNote Users
List? Just
wondering.  I actually wrote to this email right now, and put in
the subjec
the word "Subscribe" but with not quotes, but then an email came
to my inbox
saying that this email adress doesn't exist! I don't know why it
said that!
Do you know why? Maybe you should check it again? What do you
think about
that? I really want to be part of the BrailleNote Users List!
Thanks and God
bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:35:52 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:35:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to
	bepartoftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List
In-Reply-To: <52bf3eb9.23ee440a.78f0.6c67@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf3eb9.23ee440a.78f0.6c67@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS1202EF2429BAF09C74281BF5CC0@phx.gbl>

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to tell you that it work! Hope to 
talk to you there! Thanks and God bless! :)
P.S. I forgot to ask you, when you subscribe to the BrailleNote Users List, 
did you do an introduction? Just wondering! Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 4:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to 
bepartoftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List


Here you go
braillenote-request at freelists.org.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:01:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be
partoftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! Yeah!, it didn't really work.  Could yu check it
again? Jus
wondering! Thanks and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part
oftheBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List


Yep I'm sure.  Did it not work?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of
theBrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa! What's up? I just wanted to ask you, are you sure
this is the
right email adress in order to subscribe to the BrailleNote Users
List? Just
wondering.  I actually wrote to this email right now, and put in
the subjec
the word "Subscribe" but with not quotes, but then an email came
to my inbox
saying that this email adress doesn't exist! I don't know why it
said that!
Do you know why? Maybe you should check it again? What do you
think about
that? I really want to be part of the BrailleNote Users List!
Thanks and God
bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the
BrailleNoteAssociationofBlindStudents List

Really?
O wow.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:41:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
AssociationofBlindStudents List

Hey! Marissa!, this is Helga! Thanks so much for teling me this.
In fact,
someone told me the same thing that you told me just now in order
to be part
of the Music List! Hope to talk to you in the BrailleNote Users
List.  Thanks
and God bless! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: marissa
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote
Association
ofBlindStudents List


Send an email with "Subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject, with a
blank message to:
braillenote-requests at freelists.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 23:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to be part of the BrailleNote Association
of BlindStudents List

Hi guys, this is Helga.  How are you? I just wanted to ask you,
how can I become a memberor be part of the BrailleNote list? Just
wondering, since I have my own BrailleNote device, and I would
like to be part of them.  Are some of yu here part of the
BrailleNote list? Just curious! I will really appreciate it, if
you could tell me how could I be part of them.  Thanks and God
bless!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
er%40hotmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pianogirlforl
ife7%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:38:18 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 14:38:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <414253FAC191492098353DC156CB7E95@HP30910210001>

kaiti.
Arielle has given you some good advice.
As I have been reading your message, I get the idea that you aren't 
interested in having a friendship with this person.
Furthermore you sound like a very caring person who wants to help others and 
will do anything to acomplish this fact.
You need to set boundaries and continue to let her know you care and want 
her to get help.
She will get mad.
Just continue to reassure her and let her know that you care.
But stick to your boundaries.
While you are doing that, I would examine if you want this person in your 
life.
You care about this person, but you may not want to be friends with her or 
have her play a signifecant role in your life.

I was wondering how nfb philosophy fits into this situation.
Keep us posted.
I hope I helped a tiny bit.

Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kaiti Shelton" <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?


Hi,

I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.

A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
so I thought things would be going better.

If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.

I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.

On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
> tendency
> to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I don't mean to
> embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a strange fettish which
> I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried to tlak to therpists about
> it
> but I've noto been able to get them to help with it.  They don't want to
> touch it when it comes to talking about it.  So.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>
> Thanks for being honest, Dave.  Sexual advances in high school can be
> intimidating, and when I had to be the bold one and do the upper hand job
> of
> taking the initiative to attempt to go to prom or date, I was always
> accused
> of sexual harassment.  See the contact info at the bottom of the page
> email.
> Beth Taurasi
> Denver Colorado
> Skypename: denverqueen0920
> Email personal: thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:35:21 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
> Hi Beth.  One of the things that happened with me is during high school 
> and
> stuff I never dated.  I never went to the prom or anything so I kind of
> knew
> how to deal with firls but not totally.  I've got sort of some weird stuff
> going on when it comes to sexual stuff  and all.  If you want you can 
> email
> me off list because I don't want to post it  and I don't want the whole
> list
> to know.  Feel free to mail me or skype me if you want to talk more.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Taurasi
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> advice?
>
> Blocking is the only way to get a harasser off the phone, but there's
> something that blind people most often do not learn.  We are not often
> taught the proper way to deal with sexual advances nor are girls, in this
> case your case, taught to call boys.  My mother had an archaic view of
> girls, the sweet, quiet, shy kind.  Well, I've got bad news for all of us:
> Blake calls me online every day, but I call Blake on some occasions.  We
> have a balance of who calls whom, and Blake is aware of my problems.
> Perhaps the parents of the girl did not learn what the girl might have.
> She
> could be mentally unstable, mentally unable to deal with the advancement 
> of
> others. She could also be creeping your friend out because she didn't 
> learn
> the proper way to deal with boys.
> As for you, she's probably using you, Kaiti, to get to the boy.
> Please
> email me off list.  I have some tales to tell you about myself and what
> happened.  Do you have Skype?  I can give you that.
> Sincerely,
> Beth Taurasi
> NFB of Denver/Mile High Chapter,
> Denver, Colorado
> Skype ID: denverqueen0920
>
> On 12/27/2013 3:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
>  Hi all,
>
>  I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite sure
> how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>
>  Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for 
> students
> in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.
>  This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show
> students
> and parents from around the state different employment
>> options
> that were available, ranging from vending and call center  > jobs to 
> taking
> the college route to get a degree in a two or four  > year program.  A
> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
>  were hanging out early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl
> was
>  hanging all over him and would not give him his personal space.
> It
> was very odd, considering that this was a very short period of time  > in
> which this all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students
>> had met,
> my friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and  > unwanted
> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students,  > seeing how
> creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to  > the same
> thing,
> ended up following suit.
>
>  I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl  > was
> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
>> patient
> with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse  > with the guys
> than the girls too, so I had a little more space than  > my friend.
>
>  About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started calling 
> my
> house.  The parents at the program were given a list of  > the other
> parents
> who attended, along with their phone numbers, so  > they could swap
> resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list  > from her parents,
> and
> was using it to call me and my friend, possibly  > other students as well
> although I am not sure.  The calls started off
>> being
> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd  > girl, 
> and
> liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my  > friend. There
> was nothing social about the calls, just complaining  > and negativity, 
> and
> mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking  > to her much sooner
> than
> I did because I tried to get her to see that  > being visually impaired,
> (she didn't like the word blind since she  > was a large print reader, and
> kind of used that to elivate herself  > above other people), was not the
> worst thing in the world. She would  > cry and complain, and even tell me 
> I
> didn't understand how bad  > things were, when her descriptions of things
> made it sound like she  > was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of
> my
> junior year, a  > year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want
> to
> talk to a  > downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her
> that
> blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
>
>  The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with activities
> and preparing for college.  I would come home from  > marching band
> practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because  > the girl had 
> kept
> calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a  > span of a few hours.
> They didn't want to answer the phone because  > whenever someone told her 
> I
> wasn't home she would instantly get teary  > and mumble things to herself,
> and it was very weird, but they didn't  > want her to continue calling
> either.  I remember one night over  > Christmas break of that year, she
> called and when I told her I was  > getting ready to leave the house, 
> which
> I was to go pick up someone  > coming in from out of town for the holidays
> with my family, she got  > angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone
> number.  I told her  > that I didn't want to give it out, and she started
> to
> get upset.
>  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic mumbling.
>
>  My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've been
> in
> college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has
>> told her
> that I live at school and do not come home much multiple  > times. My
> younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've  > moved away 
> and
> have begun making up different things to tell her to  > try to discourage
> her from calling.  She continues to call, and  > around Christmas it is
> always terrible.  A few nights ago she called  > when my parents were
> asleep
> a little after  11:00 at night, and has  > apparently called and left
> messages late at night before.  My parents  > have to get up very early 
> for
> work, so In order to stop the ringing  > and to prevent a message from
> playing over the machine I had to  > answer.  Everything was exactly the
> same.  I was heading to bed  > myself, so I told her that I was asleep 
> when
> she asked for me.  The  > fact that she had called at such a late hour
> didn't seem to phase  > her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff
> coming over the  > line.
>
>  I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her  > and
> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live
>> at home
> and am away at school among other things in frustration, but  > nothing
> seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's  > house as well,
> even though he does not live at home any more either.
>  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
> barely
> knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with  > no 
> success.
> My parents and siblings have said that we should just
>> block her
> calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in  > high school
> because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly  > forgot about her
> for the most part while I was at school last year  > and last semester
> because I can't get calls from her there. After  > the call a few nights
> ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am  > slightly creeped out that
> even after my parents have told her I am  > not home for the past year and
> a
> half that the calls are still  > coming.  What do you think I should do?
>
>  -- Kaiti
>
>  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
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>
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-- 
Kaiti

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From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:48:06 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:48:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com><CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com><E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
Message-ID: <01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>

Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had people
calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact the
police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They won't
do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal with.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Dave,
It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially dangerous
for Kaiti .

Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed under a
court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?

I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is beginning
to feel in over her head.

Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be firm.

Ian


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?


:I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I 
mean
: it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
: won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
: Pennington
: Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
: To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
: Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
:
: I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her 
parents
: or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but 
you
: may need to take such actions.
:
: Sent from my iPhone
:
: > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
: wrote:
: >
: > Hi,
: >
: > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
: > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
: > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
: >
: > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
: > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
: > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
: > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
: > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
: > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
: > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
: > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
: > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
: > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
: > so I thought things would be going better.
: >
: > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
: > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
: > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
: >
: > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
: > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
: > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
: >
: >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
: >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I
: >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
: >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried
: >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to
: >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
: >> about it.  So.
: >>
: >> -----Original Message-----
: >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
: >> Taurasi
: >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
: >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
:
: _______________________________________________
: nabs-l mailing list
: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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:
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From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:53:34 2013
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:53:34 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fab_BqGpDNn1q-XvgEFGppA+8FZK6V1YSzHq7-CF6Mpug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D38D8C0A-B2E4-4F44-9BB4-2426E49DAE0E@yahoo.com>
	<52BE522A.5060106@tysdomain.com>
	<CAFja7Fab_BqGpDNn1q-XvgEFGppA+8FZK6V1YSzHq7-CF6Mpug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01cd01cf0417$428d0210$c7a70630$@gmail.com>

You know maybe you  could just buy her off.  Pay her a nice bundle of money
to quit calling your house.  Just kidding.  Well if her parents don't know
she's doing this and she just took the list then yea maybe calling and
talking to her parents would be the best thing.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 12:37 AM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?

Hi,

I'm honestly not sure if this is a cognitive disability at work or not,
though I have questioned that.  It's difficult for me to tell if she just
isn't understanding what I and others are saying to her but is just getting
tired of hearing multiple people tell her the same thing over and over
again, which she doesn't agree with; or if it is a case of psychological
issues at work.  Either way, I know her parents are already aware of it
because even at the program her mother would do things like pull her aside
every so often, mostly when she was around and could notice that the girl
was making someone else feel uncomfortable.  The mom did not willingly give
the list of names and phone numbers to her daughter---she took it, and I'm
guessing either saved the numbers in the phone somehow or wrote them down.
It's very possible that her parents do not even know she's doing this with
students from this weekend program a few years ago, but I have heard her
parents ask who she is talking to a few times and she's mumbled in response.
I'm really not sure if this is cognitive or psychological, since she seems
to be pretty methodical.  As far as I can tell she doesn't seem to pose a
threat to anyone else or herself, and she never mentioned anything like
self-harm to me.

As before, I will take the suggestion to offer assistance through a help
line of some sort the next time she calls.  I do not know if I will
intercept the next call while I am on break; I have social plans and other
things going on so it's possible that she might not try to call back for
another few weeks when I will be back at school.
However, the next time I do get her I will give this a try.

I wish I could help her, and feel like I've tried to, but it's awkward
because I barely know her and the conversations we've had have been very
strange for the most part.  I am not a professional councelor, but I
recognize that she needs someone to talk to now that I've thought about it
and can look past the shock of, "She still calls me?"

On 12/27/13, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler at tysdomain.com> wrote:
> Hello:
> I don't know what good calling the house will do. I think at this 
> point you should just call and get the number blocked and let that be
that.
> It's not the best of solutions, but calling her parents might just 
> make things worse.
> HTH,
> On 12/27/2013 10:16 PM, Bobbi Pompey wrote:
>> I would suggest calling her house and speaking with her parents. Or 
>> having her phone number blocked.
>>
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>
>>> On Dec 27, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite 
>>> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for 
>>> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  
>>> This Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show 
>>> students and parents from around the state different employment 
>>> options that were available, ranging from vending and call center 
>>> jobs to taking the college route to get a degree in a two or four 
>>> year program.  A friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other,
were hanging out
>>> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
>>> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd, 
>>> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this 
>>> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my 
>>> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted 
>>> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing 
>>> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the 
>>> same thing, ended up following suit.
>>>
>>> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl 
>>> was very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more 
>>> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse 
>>> with the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than 
>>> my friend.
>>>
>>> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started 
>>> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of 
>>> the other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so 
>>> they could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list 
>>> from her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, 
>>> possibly other students as well although I am not sure.  The calls 
>>> started off being about once every so often, then increased.  She 
>>> was a very odd girl, and liked to complain and cry about her problems to
me and my friend.
>>> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and 
>>> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to 
>>> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that 
>>> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she 
>>> was a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself 
>>> above other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She 
>>> would cry and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad 
>>> things were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she 
>>> was very overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a 
>>> year after the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a 
>>> downer, and that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that 
>>> blindness didn't mean the end of the world.
>>>
>>> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with 
>>> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from 
>>> marching band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because 
>>> the girl had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a 
>>> span of a few hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because 
>>> whenever someone told her I wasn't home she would instantly get 
>>> teary and mumble things to herself, and it was very weird, but they 
>>> didn't want her to continue calling either.  I remember one night 
>>> over Christmas break of that year, she called and when I told her I 
>>> was getting ready to leave the house, which I was to go pick up 
>>> someone coming in from out of town for the holidays with my family, 
>>> she got angry and wanted me to give her my cell phone number.  I 
>>> told her that I didn't want to give it out, and she started to get 
>>> upset.  Then I really had to go, and there was the characteristic
mumbling.
>>>
>>> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've 
>>> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has 
>>> told her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
>>> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved 
>>> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to 
>>> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around 
>>> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when 
>>> my parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has 
>>> apparently called and left messages late at night before.  My 
>>> parents have to get up very early for work, so In order to stop the 
>>> ringing and to prevent a message from playing over the machine I had 
>>> to answer.  Everything was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed 
>>> myself, so I told her that I was asleep when she asked for me.  The 
>>> fact that she had called at such a late hour didn't seem to phase 
>>> her, there was just the mumbling and usual stuff coming over the line.
>>>
>>> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her 
>>> and that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer 
>>> live at home and am away at school among other things in 
>>> frustration, but nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls 
>>> my friend's house as well, even though he does not live at home any 
>>> more either.  I don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely 
>>> know her and she barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried 
>>> to help her with no success.  My parents and siblings have said that 
>>> we should just block her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this 
>>> while I was in high school because I didn't want to be mean, and 
>>> then I honestly forgot about her for the most part while I was at 
>>> school last year and last semester because I can't get calls from 
>>> her there.  After the call a few nights ago, I don't really know 
>>> what to think.  I am slightly creeped out that even after my parents 
>>> have told her I am not home for the past year and a half that the 
>>> calls are still coming.  What do you think I should do?
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Kaiti
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pompey2010%40yah
>>> oo.com
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> .com
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Ty
> http://tds-solutions.net
> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; 
> he that dares not reason is a slave.
> Sent from my Toaster (tm).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti

_______________________________________________
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From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 22:19:30 2013
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel and Stockard)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:19:30 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com><015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com><CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com><E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>

You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your family, and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk to them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not to call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect already, and I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help in the form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a much better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round about way are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her life know what's happening so that she can get help.
jmo
Laurel
On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had people
> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact the
> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They won't
> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal with.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
> 
> Dave,
> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially dangerous
> for Kaiti .
> 
> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed under a
> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
> 
> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is beginning
> to feel in over her head.
> 
> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be firm.
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
> 
> 
> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I 
> mean
> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.  Authorities
> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
> :
> : -----Original Message-----
> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
> : Pennington
> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
> :
> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her 
> parents
> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but 
> you
> : may need to take such actions.
> :
> : Sent from my iPhone
> :
> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> : wrote:
> : >
> : > Hi,
> : >
> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> : >
> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would stop
> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying, so
> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
> : > so I thought things would be going better.
> : >
> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> : >
> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done and
> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> : >
> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.  I
> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried
> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to
> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
> : >> about it.  So.
> : >>
> : >> -----Original Message-----
> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
> : >> Taurasi
> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> : nabs-l:
> : 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> :
> :
> : _______________________________________________
> : nabs-l mailing list
> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From piano.girl0299 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 01:09:31 2013
From: piano.girl0299 at gmail.com (Kelsey Nicolay)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
Message-ID: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>

Hello,
This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like 
to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have 
been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone 
who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get 
manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether 
she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.  
I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.  
What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their 
own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it? 
Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in 
texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying 
makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed 
up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does 
it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own 
makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her 
own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going 
to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.  
Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails 
for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the 
clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it 
didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions 
on how to accomplish these tasks.
Thanks,


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 02:16:00 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:16:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJACPg+tmLfyVfPjJH9PvhhH6nT=q5ggiqk_6o8NYb9EQw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kelsey,

I have not applied my own nail polish, but I have a blind friend who
does and she said she puts the polish in the fridge so it feels cold
and she can tell where she is applying it. You could try this method
and then have a sighted person give you feedback on whether it is
even.
Most blind people I know do clip their own fingernails and a nail
clipper really cannot hurt you. If you try to cut too deep, you'll
feel discomfort and can pull your nail out so you aren't cutting as
deep before you actually cut. I really can't think of a way you could
harm yourself with a nail clipper, so it might be worth just
experimenting with one. You will be able to feel whether your nails
are even because if they are not, one side will feel longer than the
other. If your dad is unwilling to let you experiment with the
clippers he has, perhaps buy a small one at a general store or borrow
a friend's and try it yourself.
As for makeup, I have learned to do simple makeup by going to one of
the free makeover counters at a makeup store like Clinique and having
the lady there teach me. If I am trying a new makeup product or a new
technique, I will get sighted feedback the first few times on whether
it is visible or if there are spots I have missed. I am not the best
at it and don't wear makeup a lot but it is definitely something a
blind person can do and many do it.
In my experience I have found that, for whatever reason, parents
aren't the best for teaching many daily living skills. It is
unfortunate, but I think often our parents get so used to doing for us
and so fixated on possible ways we could mess up that they have
trouble teaching these skills in a way that maximizes experiential
learning. If you want to get a lesson in any of these skills I might
suggest somebody who is neutral, like a makeup counter representative,
or if not, then a friend or a rehab teacher. If you are a voc rehab
client you should be able to request a few visits with a daily living
skills instructor as part of your service plan. But even with formal
lessons, the best way to learn is by practicing on your own and trying
different techniques until you find the ones that work best.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/28/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
> to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
> been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
> who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
> manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
> she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
> I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
> What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
> own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
> Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
> texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
> makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
> up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
> it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
> makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
> own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
> to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
> Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
> for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
> clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
> didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
> on how to accomplish these tasks.
> Thanks,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From denverqueen1107 at comcast.net  Sun Dec 29 02:58:16 2013
From: denverqueen1107 at comcast.net (Beth Taurasi)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:58:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
Message-ID: <mailman.100.1772982275.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Hey Kelsey,
Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own 
nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own 
toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than 
fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the 
key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye 
candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that 
should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit 
with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but 
Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his 
fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that 
since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures 
monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his 
own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about 
that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
Beth
P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.  
Wow.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills

Hello,
This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
on how to accomplish these tasks.
Thanks,

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
07%40comcast.net


From louvins at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 04:09:21 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 22:09:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>

Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers to
far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so you'd
know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
kelsey.

On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hey Kelsey,
> Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
> nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
> toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
> fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
> key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
> candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
> should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
> with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
> Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
> fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
> since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
> monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
> own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
> that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
> Beth
> P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
> Wow.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
>
> Hello,
> This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
> to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
> been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
> who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
> manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
> she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
> I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
> What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
> own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
> Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
> texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
> makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
> up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
> it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
> makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
> own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
> to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
> Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
> for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
> clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
> didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
> on how to accomplish these tasks.
> Thanks,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> 07%40comcast.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 05:23:55 2013
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie P.)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 22:23:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

There is absolutely no reason why a blind person can't use a nail clipper.
They're hardly dangerous. My partner and I practice martial arts about
three nights a week and due to the rough physical nature of the activity,
we have to keep our finger and toe nails well trimmed without jagged edges
that could scratch other people. It would be impractical for us to have our
nails professionally done as often as we need to trim them. You can tell
when your nails need trimming just by feeling them, and likewise, your
sense of touch is all you need to trim them. Just slide the "teeth" of the
clipper over your nail and pinch the clipper closed very slowly. If you
feel discomfort at all, back the teeth of the clipper away from your
fingertip slightly and try closing it again. Pinch it all the way closed to
clip, and just move the teeth around your finger to clip the whole nail
evenly.

As for polishing, I know this is something that can be done, too. It just
takes practice. If you still live with or near your mom, why not make it a
"girl thing" and ask if you can do your nails together. Put the polish in
the fridge for a while to make it very cold. Have your mom hep you pick a
color and tell you what it's called so you can find it in a store on your
own. Paint your own nails and let your mom give you feedback. Then clean
the polish off and try again. Do it three times or so to get a good bit of
practice. Over time, you'll get the hang of it. It takes sighted girls a
few tries to lean how to do it, too.


On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com>wrote:

> Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
> I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers to
> far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
> couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
> player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
> just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
> have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
> couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so you'd
> know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
> get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
> kelsey.
>
> On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Hey Kelsey,
> > Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
> > nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
> > toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
> > fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
> > key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
> > candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
> > should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
> > with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
> > Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
> > fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
> > since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
> > monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
> > own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
> > that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
> > Beth
> > P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
> > Wow.
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
> > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
> >
> > Hello,
> > This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
> > to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
> > been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
> > who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
> > manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
> > she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
> > I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
> > What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
> > own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
> > Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
> > texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
> > makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
> > up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
> > it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
> > makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
> > own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
> > to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
> > Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
> > for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
> > clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
> > didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
> > on how to accomplish these tasks.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> > 07%40comcast.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 05:51:42 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:51:42 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH6_QC+xEkcmt4hUUDA-jXjab4UNGC6fFZH=hx2-53FqmdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kelsey,
I found scissors easier than clippers. I line them up using both hands
and cut as much or as little as I like, choosing where to start. Would
you be able to cut your nails down to the length you want and just use
an emery board to keep the length and shape after that?

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 12/29/13, Jamie P. <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> There is absolutely no reason why a blind person can't use a nail clipper.
> They're hardly dangerous. My partner and I practice martial arts about
> three nights a week and due to the rough physical nature of the activity,
> we have to keep our finger and toe nails well trimmed without jagged edges
> that could scratch other people. It would be impractical for us to have our
> nails professionally done as often as we need to trim them. You can tell
> when your nails need trimming just by feeling them, and likewise, your
> sense of touch is all you need to trim them. Just slide the "teeth" of the
> clipper over your nail and pinch the clipper closed very slowly. If you
> feel discomfort at all, back the teeth of the clipper away from your
> fingertip slightly and try closing it again. Pinch it all the way closed to
> clip, and just move the teeth around your finger to clip the whole nail
> evenly.
>
> As for polishing, I know this is something that can be done, too. It just
> takes practice. If you still live with or near your mom, why not make it a
> "girl thing" and ask if you can do your nails together. Put the polish in
> the fridge for a while to make it very cold. Have your mom hep you pick a
> color and tell you what it's called so you can find it in a store on your
> own. Paint your own nails and let your mom give you feedback. Then clean
> the polish off and try again. Do it three times or so to get a good bit of
> practice. Over time, you'll get the hang of it. It takes sighted girls a
> few tries to lean how to do it, too.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Joshua Hendrickson
> <louvins at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
>> I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers to
>> far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
>> couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
>> player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
>> just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
>> have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
>> couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so you'd
>> know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
>> get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
>> kelsey.
>>
>> On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > Hey Kelsey,
>> > Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
>> > nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
>> > toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
>> > fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
>> > key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
>> > candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
>> > should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
>> > with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
>> > Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
>> > fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
>> > since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
>> > monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
>> > own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
>> > that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
>> > Beth
>> > P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
>> > Wow.
>> >
>> >  ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
>> > to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
>> > been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
>> > who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
>> > manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
>> > she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
>> > I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
>> > What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
>> > own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
>> > Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
>> > texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
>> > makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
>> > up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
>> > it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
>> > makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
>> > own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
>> > to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
>> > Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
>> > for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
>> > clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
>> > didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
>> > on how to accomplish these tasks.
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> > for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>> > 07%40comcast.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 06:04:01 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 06:04:01 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <52bf0237.0690420a.61ee.682c@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf0237.0690420a.61ee.682c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH69bJrfot7waa3pEHVLaxPa4s1+EdAqJBeJVTMQ7YczdnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Terri started this conversation and I answered her off list so this is
for Helga.
I'm a Braille Music Teacher and I can tell you that if you find some
music written for strings, (with chords involved), that will be an
adequate substitute for guitar music. Sometimes guitar tablature is
used but that has words and letter names so you'll pick that up
immediately. If you have access to piano music, that will help you get
used to how chords are written but be aware that scores transcribed
nowadays will have the left hand's intervals reading upwards while the
right hand's intervals read downwards.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 12/28/13, marissa <pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Where can I get this for free?
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Emily Pennington" <emilypennington at fuse.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 11:51:54 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
> Hi all,
> Many years ago, when I was learning how to read Braille music, I
> read the
> book Lillie mentioned.  Although it dealt mostly with the
> foundations and
> piano music, it had sections for other types of instruments --
> even
> percussion.  I distinctly recall that it had a section for string
> instruments.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Emily
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lillie Pennington" <lilliepennington at fuse.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 11:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
>
> I may be wrong, but I think that guitar music should be like
> string music
> in cords and such.  I don't play guitar personally, but the book
> I mentioned
> earlier may have some suggestions.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On Dec 27, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "Helga Schreiber"
>  <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi Lillie, this is Helga.  Thanks so much for the suggestions on
> how to
>  learn to read Braille Music.  I really don't know how to read
> Braille
>  Music! I actually I'm learning how to play the guitar.  By the
> way, I just
>  wanted to ask you, is there a way on how to learn how to read
> Braille
>  music while I'm learning how to play the guitar? Just curious!,
> since you
>  mention that you play some notes on the piano.  I'm actually
> know how to
>  play notes, but I'm struggling a lot with the chords! Also,do
> you know
>  where I can learn how to read notes and chords for the guitar in
> Braille
>  Music? Just wondering.  Thanks so much and God bless! :)
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Lillie Pennington
>  Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:52 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
>  What I did when learning Braille music was to read a note, such
> as a c
>  eighth note, or just a c in general.  I would either then hum
> that note or
>  play it on the piano.  I did this often enough for all the other
> notes in
>  a
>  major scale so that when I would come to that note in a piece of
> music
>  that
>  sound would come to me automatically.
>  Another trick that I found helpful was learning the foundations
> in which
>  the
>  notes are built upon.  Eighth notes are just one letter ahead of
> their
>  corresponding letter in the alphabet, with the exception of a
> and b,
>  which
>  are I and J.  Quarter notes are those eighth notes, but with a
> dot 6
>  added.
>  Half notes are the eighth note with a dot 3 added.  Hole notes
> and 16th
>  notes
>  are the eighth notes with a dot 3 and 6 added.
>  I would recommend the book how to read Braille music as a
> resource for
>  learning Braille music.
>  Hope this helps.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>  trising at sbcglobal.net
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:22 PM
>  To: sandragayer7 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind
> Students
>  mailing
>  list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music
>
>  Hello:
>
>     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I am
> a soprano
>  as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on the time
> of year.  I
>  also do as much solo work as possible.  I would really like to
> learn
>  Braille
>  music.  I read Braille at 300 words per minute and I have helped
> people
>  improve their Braille reading speeds, but when I look at Braille
> music,
>  what
>  I feel is what the letter is supposed to be in real Braille and
> not in
>  Braille music.  For instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain
> instantly
>  says D and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by
> ear and got
>  high grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
> benefit.
>  Sandra,
>  how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille as
> Braille and
>  get
>  it to recognize Braille music, since the symbols are the same? I
> hope
>  this
>  question is clearer than mud!!
>
>  Merry Christmas from
>  Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
> ton%40fuse.
>  net
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
> er%40hotmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepenning
> ton%40fuse.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/emilypenningt
> on%40fuse.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> ife7%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 12:55:00 2013
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (Mariya Vasileva)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 07:55:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>
References: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <701D6BE8-76EC-4AF0-88EA-76B0CF8A9917@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2013, at 8:09 PM, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> This may

> seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.  I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.  What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it? Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.  Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions on how to accomplish these tasks.
> Thanks,
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com

Hello Kelsey.
I totally agree with th the nail clipper method. It's like Jamie said you center the teeth of the clippers on the nail, then clip that area by closing them, and then you repeat the same process all around the selected finger and to the other fingers. You may need to repeat the process a couple of times on your fingers until you feel afterwards the nails ar a bit behind the edge of your nail bed, however, don't go to far with it after the nail has reached that point because will feel discomfort, and that's what you don't want. The same process applies to toe nails as well. As far as nail polish goes, the fridge method may work, I'm going to try that for myself to see how it works.  For make-up, for foundation, as you apply it to your face using the brush, you will have to feel on your face if you have placed on every area evenly, I don't do make-up as often as I would like to, but learning from a blind make-up class from a youth leadership seminar three years ago, I would think of applying foundation like applying proactive solutions to the face by feel ing where you are alying, where you haven't applied, and afterwards if it covers your face evenly accept your eyes of course, for blush, you basically take it's application brush, and just all around your cheeks, nose bridge , and forehead, you just not dip it in like you would foundation, but rub the fluffy part of the brush in the powder and just gently rub it on those three areas side ways with the tips of it. For lip liner, gloss, and stick, just apply all around your lips in between them and the edges of them. As far as eye shadow, liner, and mascara are concerned, I would console a blimd person that has a couple of blindness techniques under their belt for applying these three things efficiently and independently with out mess or damage done. If you do get such methods, please e-mail them to me because I would like to know myself how to apply them. Good luck, and don't let those sighties steer you wrong... -:) 

From carlymih at comcast.net  Sun Dec 29 13:23:55 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:23:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH6_QC+xEkcmt4hUUDA-jXjab4UNGC6fFZH=hx2-53FqmdQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6_QC+xEkcmt4hUUDA-jXjab4UNGC6fFZH=hx2-53FqmdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131229051314.01dec4d8@comcast.net>



Good morning, Sandra,

         The idea of simply cutting the nail down using scissors 
along with then smoothing and shaping them with an emery board is 
definitely a good one and one i myself have used in a pinch, but it 
might be a worthwhile investment to have them professionally 
manicured. This is by far a good strategy for up keeping toenails, 
getting a pedicure.   My blind man and I, on a monthly basis get a 
manicure/pedicure. It is also beneficial, at least for us to get all 
the month's tention massaged out of our feet and legs on the basis of 
the monthly. We look at this as a matter of maintenance.
Packages of manicures and pedicures can be found at nail salons. Call 
first to inquire or do a simple GOOGLE search.
Good luck and keep us posted!
for today, Car

, choosing where to start. Would
>you be able to cut your nails down to the length you want and just use
>an emery board to keep the length and shape after that?
>
>Very best wishes,
>Sandra.
>
>On 12/29/13, Jamie P. <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > There is absolutely no reason why a blind person can't use a nail clipper.
> > They're hardly dangerous. My partner and I practice martial arts about
> > three nights a week and due to the rough physical nature of the activity,
> > we have to keep our finger and toe nails well trimmed without jagged edges
> > that could scratch other people. It would be impractical for us to have our
> > nails professionally done as often as we need to trim them. You can tell
> > when your nails need trimming just by feeling them, and likewise, your
> > sense of touch is all you need to trim them. Just slide the "teeth" of the
> > clipper over your nail and pinch the clipper closed very slowly. If you
> > feel discomfort at all, back the teeth of the clipper away from your
> > fingertip slightly and try closing it again. Pinch it all the way closed to
> > clip, and just move the teeth around your finger to clip the whole nail
> > evenly.
> >
> > As for polishing, I know this is something that can be done, too. It just
> > takes practice. If you still live with or near your mom, why not make it a
> > "girl thing" and ask if you can do your nails together. Put the polish in
> > the fridge for a while to make it very cold. Have your mom hep you pick a
> > color and tell you what it's called so you can find it in a store on your
> > own. Paint your own nails and let your mom give you feedback. Then clean
> > the polish off and try again. Do it three times or so to get a good bit of
> > practice. Over time, you'll get the hang of it. It takes sighted girls a
> > few tries to lean how to do it, too.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Joshua Hendrickson
> > <louvins at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
> >> I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers to
> >> far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
> >> couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
> >> player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
> >> just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
> >> have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
> >> couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so you'd
> >> know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
> >> get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
> >> kelsey.
> >>
> >> On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> > Hey Kelsey,
> >> > Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
> >> > nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
> >> > toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
> >> > fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
> >> > key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
> >> > candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
> >> > should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
> >> > with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
> >> > Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
> >> > fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
> >> > since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
> >> > monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
> >> > own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
> >> > that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
> >> > Beth
> >> > P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
> >> > Wow.
> >> >
> >> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> > This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
> >> > to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
> >> > been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
> >> > who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
> >> > manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
> >> > she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
> >> > I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
> >> > What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
> >> > own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
> >> > Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
> >> > texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
> >> > makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
> >> > up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
> >> > it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
> >> > makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
> >> > own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
> >> > to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
> >> > Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
> >> > for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
> >> > clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
> >> > didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
> >> > on how to accomplish these tasks.
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> > for nabs-l:
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
> >> > 07%40comcast.net
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> > nabs-l:
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
>Broadcast Presenter
>
>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 15:23:17 2013
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (Mariya Vasileva)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 10:23:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
Message-ID: <CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, my name is Mariya, and i am graduating in a few months from
high school, and i am wanting to major in Choral Direction. I know
that braille music is needed for this position, is their any way of
possible teaching me some techniques on how to read it and tell the
difference between regular braille and music braille? Also, what
techniques should I use to increase my braille speed from 79 words per
minute to 250 or 300 words per minute?
On 12/24/13, trising at sbcglobal.net <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello:
>
>      I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on
> the time of year. I also do as much solo work as possible. I would really
> like to learn Braille music. I read Braille at 300 words
> per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds,
> but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
> letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music. For
> instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D
> and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got high
> grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
> benefit. Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille
> as Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since
> the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!
>
> Merry Christmas from
> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 16:04:10 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
In-Reply-To: <CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECD31623-3CE0-4D41-9AA3-286AB0E77F21@gmail.com>

Mariya,

You might check out the services provided by Dancing Dots. They have some training material including books and software. Their Web site is www.dancingdots.com.

HTH,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways submit to him and he will make your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Mariya Vasileva <mkvnfb94 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, my name is Mariya, and i am graduating in a few months from
> high school, and i am wanting to major in Choral Direction. I know
> that braille music is needed for this position, is their any way of
> possible teaching me some techniques on how to read it and tell the
> difference between regular braille and music braille? Also, what
> techniques should I use to increase my braille speed from 79 words per
> minute to 250 or 300 words per minute?
>> On 12/24/13, trising at sbcglobal.net <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Hello:
>> 
>>     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice. I am a soprano
>> as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on
>> the time of year. I also do as much solo work as possible. I would really
>> like to learn Braille music. I read Braille at 300 words
>> per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille reading speeds,
>> but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
>> letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille music. For
>> instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D
>> and not eight note C. I did all of my college work by ear and got high
>> grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
>> benefit. Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off recognizing Braille
>> as Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since
>> the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than mud!!
>> 
>> Merry Christmas from
>> Terri and Nick Wilcox
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com


From dsykora29 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 16:25:40 2013
From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:25:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131229051314.01dec4d8@comcast.net>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6_QC+xEkcmt4hUUDA-jXjab4UNGC6fFZH=hx2-53FqmdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131229051314.01dec4d8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAAdv8fqA-B7kCwP6OA8vLH2_1XAmJ85KcDaSsin9ePsHM9qR0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

As others have said, there is no reason why a blind person would not
be able to clip his/her nails. If you don't feel comfortable using a
nail clipper though, filing your nails is a good option. As for nail
polish, putting it in the fridge first seems like a good idea. You
will be able to feel the change in temperature when you apply it to
your nails. You can ask for sighted assistance to make sure it has
been done correctly or you can wait for it to dry and assess your
nails on your own. If the entire nail feels smooth, you have evenly
spread the polish over your entire nail. It will probably take a few
tries before you reliably  get it right.

Hope that helped,
Danielle

On 12/29/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Good morning, Sandra,
>
>          The idea of simply cutting the nail down using scissors
> along with then smoothing and shaping them with an emery board is
> definitely a good one and one i myself have used in a pinch, but it
> might be a worthwhile investment to have them professionally
> manicured. This is by far a good strategy for up keeping toenails,
> getting a pedicure.   My blind man and I, on a monthly basis get a
> manicure/pedicure. It is also beneficial, at least for us to get all
> the month's tention massaged out of our feet and legs on the basis of
> the monthly. We look at this as a matter of maintenance.
> Packages of manicures and pedicures can be found at nail salons. Call
> first to inquire or do a simple GOOGLE search.
> Good luck and keep us posted!
> for today, Car
>
> , choosing where to start. Would
>>you be able to cut your nails down to the length you want and just use
>>an emery board to keep the length and shape after that?
>>
>>Very best wishes,
>>Sandra.
>>
>>On 12/29/13, Jamie P. <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > There is absolutely no reason why a blind person can't use a nail
>> > clipper.
>> > They're hardly dangerous. My partner and I practice martial arts about
>> > three nights a week and due to the rough physical nature of the
>> > activity,
>> > we have to keep our finger and toe nails well trimmed without jagged
>> > edges
>> > that could scratch other people. It would be impractical for us to have
>> > our
>> > nails professionally done as often as we need to trim them. You can
>> > tell
>> > when your nails need trimming just by feeling them, and likewise, your
>> > sense of touch is all you need to trim them. Just slide the "teeth" of
>> > the
>> > clipper over your nail and pinch the clipper closed very slowly. If you
>> > feel discomfort at all, back the teeth of the clipper away from your
>> > fingertip slightly and try closing it again. Pinch it all the way closed
>> > to
>> > clip, and just move the teeth around your finger to clip the whole nail
>> > evenly.
>> >
>> > As for polishing, I know this is something that can be done, too. It
>> > just
>> > takes practice. If you still live with or near your mom, why not make it
>> > a
>> > "girl thing" and ask if you can do your nails together. Put the polish
>> > in
>> > the fridge for a while to make it very cold. Have your mom hep you pick
>> > a
>> > color and tell you what it's called so you can find it in a store on
>> > your
>> > own. Paint your own nails and let your mom give you feedback. Then
>> > clean
>> > the polish off and try again. Do it three times or so to get a good bit
>> > of
>> > practice. Over time, you'll get the hang of it. It takes sighted girls
>> > a
>> > few tries to lean how to do it, too.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Joshua Hendrickson
>> > <louvins at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
>> >> I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers to
>> >> far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
>> >> couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
>> >> player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
>> >> just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
>> >> have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
>> >> couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so you'd
>> >> know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
>> >> get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
>> >> kelsey.
>> >>
>> >> On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> > Hey Kelsey,
>> >> > Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
>> >> > nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
>> >> > toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
>> >> > fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
>> >> > key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
>> >> > candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
>> >> > should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
>> >> > with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
>> >> > Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
>> >> > fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
>> >> > since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
>> >> > monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
>> >> > own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
>> >> > that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
>> >> > Beth
>> >> > P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
>> >> > Wow.
>> >> >
>> >> >  ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
>> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
>> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
>> >> > to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
>> >> > been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
>> >> > who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
>> >> > manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
>> >> > she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
>> >> > I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
>> >> > What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
>> >> > own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
>> >> > Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
>> >> > texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
>> >> > makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
>> >> > up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
>> >> > it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
>> >> > makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
>> >> > own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
>> >> > to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
>> >> > Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
>> >> > for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
>> >> > clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
>> >> > didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
>> >> > on how to accomplish these tasks.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> > for nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>> >> > 07%40comcast.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> > for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Soprano Singer
>>  www.sandragayer.com
>>
>>Broadcast Presenter
>>
>>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 20:40:00 2013
From: pianogirlforlife7 at gmail.com (marissa)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 12:40:00 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Music
Message-ID: <52c088cb.c619440a.4251.3395@mx.google.com>


Dancing dots have the book How To Read Braille Music, I think it 
is what it's called.


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Music

Mariya,

You might check out the services provided by Dancing Dots.  They 
have some training material including books and software.  Their 
Web site is www.dancingdots.com.

HTH,

Chris Nusbaum

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own 
understanding.  In all your ways submit to him and he will make 
your paths straight."
Proverbs 3:5-6

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Mariya Vasileva 
<mkvnfb94 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hello, my name is Mariya, and i am graduating in a few months 
from
 high school, and i am wanting to major in Choral Direction.  I 
know
 that braille music is needed for this position, is their any way 
of
 possible teaching me some techniques on how to read it and tell 
the
 difference between regular braille and music braille? Also, what
 techniques should I use to increase my braille speed from 79 
words per
 minute to 250 or 300 words per minute?
 On 12/24/13, trising at sbcglobal.net <trising at sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:
 Hello:

     I have a Master's Degree in Voice and also teach voice.  I 
am a soprano
 as well and sing in two or three choirs, depending on
 the time of year.  I also do as much solo work as possible.  I 
would really
 like to learn Braille music.  I read Braille at 300 words
 per minute and I have helped people improve their Braille 
reading speeds,
 but when I look at Braille music, what I feel is what the
 letter is supposed to be in real Braille and not in Braille 
music.  For
 instance, I feel dots 1, 4, 5, and my brain instantly says D
 and not eight note C.  I did all of my college work by ear and 
got high
 grades doing it, but I know Braille music would be of
 benefit.  Sandra, how do you get your brain to turn off 
recognizing Braille
 as Braille and get it to recognize Braille music, since
 the symbols are the same? I hope this question is clearer than 
mud!!

 Merry Christmas from
 Terri and Nick Wilcox


 _______________________________________________
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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ail.com

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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ife7%40gmail.com


From lizzym0827 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 20:59:05 2013
From: lizzym0827 at gmail.com (lizzy)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:59:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
Message-ID: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>

Hi Kelsey,
Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and 
often paint and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, 
I've never tried the method of using cold nail polish but really 
like the idea.  My biggest piece of advice to you is just go for 
it.  The first time I painted my nails it was a mess but honestly 
after that, it became much easier.
Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail 
you've already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I 
usually do two coats on each hand but that all depends on the 
color and how light or dark it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if 
its showing up okay.  When at the beauty salon, pay attention to 
what the person is doing while painting your nails (Ex: Doing the 
right hand, then the left, back to the right and ending with the 
left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail polish 
because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail 
making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have 
some nail polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted 
girls mess up a lot when they're learning as well so don't feel 
embarrassed if you get some paint on the skin around the nail or 
mess up the first few times, just have fun with it.
On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them 
using either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just 
clipping the tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  
Then as you feel more comfortable, you can clip shorter and 
shorter.
As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in 
applying? I usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times 
use foundation and blush, so if you let me know what exactly you 
would like to start off with I can give you specific tips.
Happy beautifying and good luck!
Lizzy


From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 21:04:25 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:04:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
References: <52bf7662.6115320a.355f.16a2@mx.google.com>
	<CALAYQJACPg+tmLfyVfPjJH9PvhhH6nT=q5ggiqk_6o8NYb9EQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B25825C074D443F8A432C3793C1FB7C8@HP30910210001>

I was going to suggest the nail polish being put in the fridge.
I haven't tried that yet.
But it was suggested to me by my rehab teacher.
I just have to figure out how to polish my lefthand as well as my right.
As for makeup, I went to the clenique counter at maysys.  With my rehab 
teacher and had a free lesson.  Then the rehab teacher took notes and then 
we had a lesson on makeup after the free one at the clenique counter.
I had a really good instructor at the counter.
She was very patient and she also helped me figure out ways to put it on my 
face.
I don't wear makeup a lot either.
But It is good to know how to do it.
I also learned how to use a curling iron.
That is something that my mom and sighted female friends and relatives 
couldn't really teach me.
Good luck.

Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills


Hi Kelsey,

I have not applied my own nail polish, but I have a blind friend who
does and she said she puts the polish in the fridge so it feels cold
and she can tell where she is applying it. You could try this method
and then have a sighted person give you feedback on whether it is
even.
Most blind people I know do clip their own fingernails and a nail
clipper really cannot hurt you. If you try to cut too deep, you'll
feel discomfort and can pull your nail out so you aren't cutting as
deep before you actually cut. I really can't think of a way you could
harm yourself with a nail clipper, so it might be worth just
experimenting with one. You will be able to feel whether your nails
are even because if they are not, one side will feel longer than the
other. If your dad is unwilling to let you experiment with the
clippers he has, perhaps buy a small one at a general store or borrow
a friend's and try it yourself.
As for makeup, I have learned to do simple makeup by going to one of
the free makeover counters at a makeup store like Clinique and having
the lady there teach me. If I am trying a new makeup product or a new
technique, I will get sighted feedback the first few times on whether
it is visible or if there are spots I have missed. I am not the best
at it and don't wear makeup a lot but it is definitely something a
blind person can do and many do it.
In my experience I have found that, for whatever reason, parents
aren't the best for teaching many daily living skills. It is
unfortunate, but I think often our parents get so used to doing for us
and so fixated on possible ways we could mess up that they have
trouble teaching these skills in a way that maximizes experiential
learning. If you want to get a lesson in any of these skills I might
suggest somebody who is neutral, like a makeup counter representative,
or if not, then a friend or a rehab teacher. If you are a voc rehab
client you should be able to request a few visits with a daily living
skills instructor as part of your service plan. But even with formal
lessons, the best way to learn is by practicing on your own and trying
different techniques until you find the ones that work best.

Best,
Arielle

On 12/28/13, Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
> to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
> been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
> who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
> manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
> she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
> I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
> What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
> own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
> Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
> texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
> makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
> up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
> it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
> makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
> own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
> to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
> Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
> for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
> clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
> didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
> on how to accomplish these tasks.
> Thanks,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 21:03:58 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 16:03:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <CAAdv8fqA-B7kCwP6OA8vLH2_1XAmJ85KcDaSsin9ePsHM9qR0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52bf9005.c13c310a.049d.ffffb743SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9t0OC+Gx3BS3A5sK0F_cakf6Z73MOOeLP0nT9dhLQ-B+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABmRQ=AQ-=yK_trwYz0+Uy-R6kBqQD2p7+13aRbHf-1FeBcHsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6_QC+xEkcmt4hUUDA-jXjab4UNGC6fFZH=hx2-53FqmdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131229051314.01dec4d8@comcast.net>
	<CAAdv8fqA-B7kCwP6OA8vLH2_1XAmJ85KcDaSsin9ePsHM9qR0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbaJ6kF2=bjAELaykf-J7QWzGdJ98JB44LwxbH-B0VgTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I agree that it is possible for a blind person to use nail clippers.
I do it myself on a regular basis, especially for my fingers since I
am a guitar player too and need to keep my nails short at all times
since guitar is a part of what I do in college on a daily basis.  If I
do miss part of the nail I am clipping I just file it off.  Nail files
cannot hurt you either.

I have not applied much makeup, but I was in a play in high school and
had one of my fellow cast members teach me.  We performed the show 4
times; she did my makeup for the opening night and described what she
was doing.  I could feel how she was using the different brushes too,
so it was easy to practice and repeat the feelings the next night.
Perhaps practicing a few days in a row was what really helped me.
Each time I applied the makeup I got a little better, and I didn't
need any help touching up my work for the last two performances.  The
one thing I do not have experience with is eye makeup, simply because
with how fast my eyes move I don't trust a mascara brush so close to
them.

As for nail painting, I have painted my own nails in the past.
Usually you can feel the polish on your nail even if it is not cold; I
feel a kind of stiffness.  Putting it in the fridge might help to
accentuate that feeling though.

Experience really is the best teacher.  I liked the suggestion about
going to a makeup counter and asking the stylist what she is doing or
what techniques she would recommend.  The makeup consultants are
usually very helpful and willing to teach others, and they have to
teach sighted people sometimes too.  I always make sure I remember or
write down beauty products that I want to continually use, so maybe
you could start a file that has the colors and/or brands of nail
products you like, instructions for applying different types of makeup
so you can refer back to them, different scents of perfume that you
would be interested in buying multiple times, etc.

HTH

On 12/29/13, Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As others have said, there is no reason why a blind person would not
> be able to clip his/her nails. If you don't feel comfortable using a
> nail clipper though, filing your nails is a good option. As for nail
> polish, putting it in the fridge first seems like a good idea. You
> will be able to feel the change in temperature when you apply it to
> your nails. You can ask for sighted assistance to make sure it has
> been done correctly or you can wait for it to dry and assess your
> nails on your own. If the entire nail feels smooth, you have evenly
> spread the polish over your entire nail. It will probably take a few
> tries before you reliably  get it right.
>
> Hope that helped,
> Danielle
>
> On 12/29/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good morning, Sandra,
>>
>>          The idea of simply cutting the nail down using scissors
>> along with then smoothing and shaping them with an emery board is
>> definitely a good one and one i myself have used in a pinch, but it
>> might be a worthwhile investment to have them professionally
>> manicured. This is by far a good strategy for up keeping toenails,
>> getting a pedicure.   My blind man and I, on a monthly basis get a
>> manicure/pedicure. It is also beneficial, at least for us to get all
>> the month's tention massaged out of our feet and legs on the basis of
>> the monthly. We look at this as a matter of maintenance.
>> Packages of manicures and pedicures can be found at nail salons. Call
>> first to inquire or do a simple GOOGLE search.
>> Good luck and keep us posted!
>> for today, Car
>>
>> , choosing where to start. Would
>>>you be able to cut your nails down to the length you want and just use
>>>an emery board to keep the length and shape after that?
>>>
>>>Very best wishes,
>>>Sandra.
>>>
>>>On 12/29/13, Jamie P. <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi there,
>>> >
>>> > There is absolutely no reason why a blind person can't use a nail
>>> > clipper.
>>> > They're hardly dangerous. My partner and I practice martial arts about
>>> > three nights a week and due to the rough physical nature of the
>>> > activity,
>>> > we have to keep our finger and toe nails well trimmed without jagged
>>> > edges
>>> > that could scratch other people. It would be impractical for us to
>>> > have
>>> > our
>>> > nails professionally done as often as we need to trim them. You can
>>> > tell
>>> > when your nails need trimming just by feeling them, and likewise, your
>>> > sense of touch is all you need to trim them. Just slide the "teeth" of
>>> > the
>>> > clipper over your nail and pinch the clipper closed very slowly. If
>>> > you
>>> > feel discomfort at all, back the teeth of the clipper away from your
>>> > fingertip slightly and try closing it again. Pinch it all the way
>>> > closed
>>> > to
>>> > clip, and just move the teeth around your finger to clip the whole
>>> > nail
>>> > evenly.
>>> >
>>> > As for polishing, I know this is something that can be done, too. It
>>> > just
>>> > takes practice. If you still live with or near your mom, why not make
>>> > it
>>> > a
>>> > "girl thing" and ask if you can do your nails together. Put the polish
>>> > in
>>> > the fridge for a while to make it very cold. Have your mom hep you
>>> > pick
>>> > a
>>> > color and tell you what it's called so you can find it in a store on
>>> > your
>>> > own. Paint your own nails and let your mom give you feedback. Then
>>> > clean
>>> > the polish off and try again. Do it three times or so to get a good
>>> > bit
>>> > of
>>> > practice. Over time, you'll get the hang of it. It takes sighted girls
>>> > a
>>> > few tries to lean how to do it, too.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Joshua Hendrickson
>>> > <louvins at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Doing your own fingernails is possible.  I am not the best at it, but
>>> >> I have done it a few times.  As long as you don't push the clippers
>>> >> to
>>> >> far in your nail, it should work fine.  I need to clip my nails every
>>> >> couple of weeks, because my nails grow extremely fast.  As a guitar
>>> >> player, I need to have very short nails.  I haven't tried toe nails
>>> >> just yet, but I'm sure it isn't much different.  Since I am a guy, I
>>> >> have no idea about nail polish or makeup, but if you do makeup,
>>> >> couldn't you just feel along your face when its being applied so
>>> >> you'd
>>> >> know exactly where you are.  I did this when I used to shave.  Now I
>>> >> get shaved at a barber along with getting my hair trimmed.  Good luck
>>> >> kelsey.
>>> >>
>>> >> On 12/28/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> >> > Hey Kelsey,
>>> >> > Oh, that reminds me, my boyffriend should learn to do his own
>>> >> > nails, fingers more so than toew.  I personally do my own
>>> >> > toenails sometimes, but they fall off more naturally than
>>> >> > fingers.  I wish I could do nail polish, but alas, color is the
>>> >> > key.  Nail polish to me is whuat my friend Jason calls "eye
>>> >> > candy."  If you want scented nail glitter, by all means, that
>>> >> > should be fun.  But as far as nail clippers, I have a nail kit
>>> >> > with nail clippers and guess whuat?  I apply them to nails, but
>>> >> > Blake, my boyfriend, is a bit insecure with that so he gets his
>>> >> > fingers and toes professionally done.  I'm not happy with that
>>> >> > since if we marry, the cost of his manicures and pedicures
>>> >> > monthly will add up in to the budget.  So I want him to do his
>>> >> > own fingernails, toenails too.  You just had me thinking about
>>> >> > that, Kelsey.  Thanks.
>>> >> > Beth
>>> >> > P.S. Makeup is great, but I've been told I look great without it.
>>> >> > Wow.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >  ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> > From: Kelsey Nicolay <piano.girl0299 at gmail.com
>>> >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 20:09:31 -0500
>>> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Hello,
>>> >> > This may seem a little off topic for this list, but I would like
>>> >> > to know your thoughts.  I like to wear nail polish, but I have
>>> >> > been told by my chosen beauty salon that there is no way someone
>>> >> > who is to otally blind can apply their own nail polish.  I get
>>> >> > manicures a lot, so I asked the person who does my nails whether
>>> >> > she thinks I could apply my own polish.  She pretty much said no.
>>> >> > I kind of think she's wrong, there has to be some way to do it.
>>> >> > What do you think? Can someone who is totally blind apply their
>>> >> > own nail polish and if so, how would you go about doing it?
>>> >> > Removing it can be done since you can feel the difference in
>>> >> > texture from the polish to the actual nail.  What about applying
>>> >> > makeup independently? I am in a choir that we have to get dressed
>>> >> > up for the concert which means wearing makeup.  My mom still does
>>> >> > it for me, but at some point, I'd like to be able to do my own
>>> >> > makeup.  I have a friend who is blind and she has been doing her
>>> >> > own makeup for years.  One of my friends from college was going
>>> >> > to give me a makeup lesson, but we never got around to it.
>>> >> > Finally, what about using nail cleappers? My dad cuts my nails
>>> >> > for me but he feels a little insecuoe about letting me handle the
>>> >> > clippers alone.  I know an nfb article covered this, but it
>>> >> > didn't really help.  I would be interested to hear your opinions
>>> >> > on how to accomplish these tasks.
>>> >> > Thanks,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> > for nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/denverqueen11
>>> >> > 07%40comcast.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> >> > for
>>> >> > nabs-l:
>>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Soprano Singer
>>>  www.sandragayer.com
>>>
>>>Broadcast Presenter
>>>
>>>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Sun Dec 29 21:10:02 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 16:10:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
References: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <DB42D946-DB11-4FB0-A307-5568D293CA99@fuse.net>

Maybe a general how to for the basics would be good. Also, for these counter things do  you call ahead or can you just show up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 3:59 PM, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kelsey,
> Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and often paint and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, I've never tried the method of using cold nail polish but really like the idea.  My biggest piece of advice to you is just go for it.  The first time I painted my nails it was a mess but honestly after that, it became much easier.
> Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail you've already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I usually do two coats on each hand but that all depends on the color and how light or dark it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if its showing up okay.  When at the beauty salon, pay attention to what the person is doing while painting your nails (Ex: Doing the right hand, then the left, back to the right and ending with the left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail polish because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have some nail polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted girls mess up a lot when they're learning as well so don't feel embarrassed if you get some paint on the skin around the nail or mess up the first few times, just have fun with it.
> On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them using either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just clipping the tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  Then as you feel more comfortable, you can clip shorter and shorter.
> As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in applying? I usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times use foundation and blush, so if you let me know what exactly you would like to start off with I can give you specific tips.
> Happy beautifying and good luck!
> Lizzy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 21:15:31 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 16:15:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
	<972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Melissa,

The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of these
issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being someone
with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
in the beginning.

The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended was
just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even put
her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has chosen
to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
half or so.

I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.  I
appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
very good to hear, even in logical situations.

On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your family,
> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk to
> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not to
> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect already, and
> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms
> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help in the
> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a much
> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round about way
> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her life
> know what's happening so that she can get help.
> jmo
> Laurel
> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had
>> people
>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact the
>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They
>> won't
>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal
>> with.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>> Dave,
>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
>> dangerous
>> for Kaiti .
>>
>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed under
>> a
>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>>
>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
>> beginning
>> to feel in over her head.
>>
>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be firm.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
>>
>>
>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I
>> mean
>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
>> Authorities
>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
>> :
>> : -----Original Message-----
>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
>> : Pennington
>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> advice?
>> :
>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her
>> parents
>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option but
>>
>> you
>> : may need to take such actions.
>> :
>> : Sent from my iPhone
>> :
>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> : wrote:
>> : >
>> : > Hi,
>> : >
>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>> : >
>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't take
>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
>> stop
>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying,
>> so
>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This was
>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked to
>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
>> : >
>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
>> : >
>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of blindness
>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done
>> and
>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
>> : >
>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.
>> I
>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've tried
>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them to
>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
>> : >> about it.  So.
>> : >>
>> : >> -----Original Message-----
>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
>> : >> Taurasi
>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> :
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> : nabs-l:
>> :
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>> :
>> :
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Sun Dec 29 22:22:52 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 22:22:52 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
	<972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH6-Bf==5_CaQG5gmdFwT-=h20oqshoX5jXTanzzRyboijQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Kaiti,
I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
calling you.

We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
to deal with what they encounter.

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Melissa,
>
> The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
> that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of these
> issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being someone
> with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
> in the beginning.
>
> The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended was
> just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even put
> her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
> difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has chosen
> to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
> half or so.
>
> I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
> are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
> them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
> more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.  I
> appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
> very good to hear, even in logical situations.
>
> On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
>> family,
>> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk to
>> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not to
>> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect already,
>> and
>> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms
>> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help in
>> the
>> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a much
>> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round about
>> way
>> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her
>> life
>> know what's happening so that she can get help.
>> jmo
>> Laurel
>> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had
>>> people
>>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact
>>> the
>>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They
>>> won't
>>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal
>>> with.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>>> advice?
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
>>> dangerous
>>> for Kaiti .
>>>
>>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed
>>> under
>>> a
>>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>>>
>>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
>>> beginning
>>> to feel in over her head.
>>>
>>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be
>>> firm.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>>> advice?
>>>
>>>
>>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I
>>> mean
>>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
>>> Authorities
>>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
>>> :
>>> : -----Original Message-----
>>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
>>> : Pennington
>>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
>>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>>> advice?
>>> :
>>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her
>>> parents
>>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option
>>> but
>>>
>>> you
>>> : may need to take such actions.
>>> :
>>> : Sent from my iPhone
>>> :
>>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
>>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> : wrote:
>>> : >
>>> : > Hi,
>>> : >
>>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
>>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
>>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>>> : >
>>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
>>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
>>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't
>>> take
>>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
>>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
>>> stop
>>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying,
>>> so
>>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
>>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This
>>> was
>>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked
>>> to
>>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
>>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
>>> : >
>>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
>>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
>>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
>>> : >
>>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
>>> blindness
>>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done
>>> and
>>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
>>> : >
>>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
>>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.
>>> I
>>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
>>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've
>>> tried
>>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them
>>> to
>>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
>>> : >> about it.  So.
>>> : >>
>>> : >> -----Original Message-----
>>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
>>> : >> Taurasi
>>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> :
>>> : _______________________________________________
>>> : nabs-l mailing list
>>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> : nabs-l:
>>> :
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>> :
>>> :
>>> : _______________________________________________
>>> : nabs-l mailing list
>>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Dec 29 22:46:20 2013
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 16:46:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7Fb6pHxaMqcfZJSuZdcrBhoOFkrT_O6RkHMbY0ySToiKWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20231CB3-EAAA-4E45-87D2-5A62940D232F@samobile.net>

That's not an NFB issue. Therefore, NFB philosophy cannot logically be applied here. It sounds like you're dealing with mental illness. I think it's important to have compassion for this woman's situation, but I also think it's important for you to set boundaries. However you want to do that is up to you. I suggest giving her some mental health resources and blocking  her phone calls.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2013, at 4:29 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have quite the puzzling situation on my hands, and I am not quite
> sure how to handle it.  Thoughts?
> 
> Almost four years ago my mom and I went to this 3 day seminar for
> students in the state voc rehab program with visual impairments.  This
> Friday evening to Sunday morning seminar was designed to show students
> and parents from around the state different employment options that
> were available, ranging from vending and call center jobs to taking
> the college route to get a degree in a two or four year program.  A
> friend of mine and I, who lived close to each other, were hanging out
> early on.   All of a sudden, this other girl was hanging all over him
> and would not give him his personal space.  It was very odd,
> considering that this was a very short period of time in which this
> all happened.  Less than 24 hours after the students had met, my
> friend was so creeped out by the almost constant and unwanted
> attention that he began to avoid this girl.  Other students, seeing
> how creeped out he was and some creeped out themselves due to the same
> thing, ended up following suit.
> 
> I was sixteen at the time, and could feel for my friend.  The girl was
> very much in my face a lot of the time too, but I was a bit more
> patient with her throughout the weekend.  She seemed to be worse with
> the guys than the girls too, so I had a little more space than my
> friend.
> 
> About 3 months after the program in the summertime, she started
> calling my house.  The parents at the program were given a list of the
> other parents who attended, along with their phone numbers, so they
> could swap resources if they so chose.  This girl got the list from
> her parents, and was using it to call me and my friend, possibly other
> students as well although I am not sure.  The calls started off being
> about once every so often, then increased.  She was a very odd girl,
> and liked to complain and cry about her problems to me and my friend.
> There was nothing social about the calls, just complaining and
> negativity, and mumbling which was really weird.  He quit talking to
> her much sooner than I did because I tried to get her to see that
> being visually impaired, (she didn't like the word blind since she was
> a large print reader, and kind of used that to elivate herself above
> other people), was not the worst thing in the world.  She would cry
> and complain, and even tell me I didn't understand how bad things
> were, when her descriptions of things made it sound like she was very
> overdramatic.  I decided at the end of my junior year, a year after
> the calls started coming, that I didn't want to talk to a downer, and
> that I wasn't going to be able to convince her that blindness didn't
> mean the end of the world.
> 
> The girl continued to call.  My senior year was very busy with
> activities and preparing for college.  I would come home from marching
> band practices to find my siblings quite frustrated because the girl
> had kept calling, sometimes as much as 5 or 6 times in a span of a few
> hours.  They didn't want to answer the phone because whenever someone
> told her I wasn't home she would instantly get teary and mumble things
> to herself, and it was very weird, but they didn't want her to
> continue calling either.  I remember one night over Christmas break of
> that year, she called and when I told her I was getting ready to leave
> the house, which I was to go pick up someone coming in from out of
> town for the holidays with my family, she got angry and wanted me to
> give her my cell phone number.  I told her that I didn't want to give
> it out, and she started to get upset.  Then I really had to go, and
> there was the characteristic mumbling.
> 
> My parents have told me that for the past year and a half that I've
> been in college that the girl has continued to call.  My mom has told
> her that I live at school and do not come home much multiple times.
> My younger siblings, in frustration, have told her that I've moved
> away and have begun making up different things to tell her to try to
> discourage her from calling.  She continues to call, and around
> Christmas it is always terrible.  A few nights ago she called when my
> parents were asleep a little after  11:00 at night, and has apparently
> called and left messages late at night before.  My parents have to get
> up very early for work, so In order to stop the ringing and to prevent
> a message from playing over the machine I had to answer.  Everything
> was exactly the same.  I was heading to bed myself, so I told her that
> I was asleep when she asked for me.  The fact that she had called at
> such a late hour didn't seem to phase her, there was just the mumbling
> and usual stuff coming over the line.
> 
> I don't quite know what to do.  I've tried to be positive with her and
> that hasn't worked.  My family has told her that I no longer live at
> home and am away at school among other things in frustration, but
> nothing seems to phase her.  I know she still calls my friend's house
> as well, even though he does not live at home any more either.  I
> don't quite know what to do about this.  I barely know her and she
> barely knows me, and in spite of this I have tried to help her with no
> success.  My parents and siblings have said that we should just block
> her calls, but I have hesitated in doing this while I was in high
> school because I didn't want to be mean, and then I honestly forgot
> about her for the most part while I was at school last year and last
> semester because I can't get calls from her there.  After the call a
> few nights ago, I don't really know what to think.  I am slightly
> creeped out that even after my parents have told her I am not home for
> the past year and a half that the calls are still coming.  What do you
> think I should do?
> 
>  --
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
> 


From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Dec 29 22:58:33 2013
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 16:58:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
Message-ID: <8394C8F1-38A1-40F8-979E-30021AAC999C@samobile.net>

Folks,

While  I am glad that you are willing to discuss your private lives with each other, I am not personally prepared to hear it. Will you please refrain from discussing this on the list? Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2013, at 5:30 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
> 
> Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )
> 
> I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.
> 
> To everyone,
> 
> Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are 
> definitely separate.
> Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
> I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be genuine 
> and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or 
> relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.
> 
> If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should 
> come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.
> 
> Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal & 
> private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here 
> with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are 
> welcome to it.
> 
> My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and 
> does tons of comunity outreach.
> I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a 
> progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed 
> without shame, or embarrassment.
> 
> The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline personality 
> trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
> Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates 
> films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and
> The Graduate and even Risky Business.
> 
> advice:
> Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes 
> that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
> I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
> For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you 
> get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you 
> should let your freak flag fly.
> We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is based 
> upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to do.
> Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at a 
> cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.
> 
> Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive 
> subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!
> 
> Respectfully,
> Ian  C. Bray
> Louisville, KY.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
> 


From pompey2010 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 29 23:41:37 2013
From: pompey2010 at yahoo.com (Bobbi Pompey)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:41:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
Message-ID: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>

Hello, 

Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a lecture, meeting, seminar, etc. 

Thanks! 

Bobbi A. L. Pompey
(336) 988-6375
pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey

From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 00:00:18 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <8394C8F1-38A1-40F8-979E-30021AAC999C@samobile.net>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<41C4B2FC000E4D64A80BE1E915C4660E@JAWS>
	<8394C8F1-38A1-40F8-979E-30021AAC999C@samobile.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYH2gVN8zNZPO5mxJUu-UekmtL0b3b_c9RiF1G_tZt0bg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I know now that'she is mentally ill in some way, but being sixteen and
only knowing her a little bit, I thought a lot of her issues were
self-esteem related to her blindness.  I also thought the personal
space issue was something her parents just didn't teach her, since I
have seen other blind people get way too close to others too.  The
funny thing was that I decided to stop trying to help her with the NFB
philosophy and positive thinking stuff after I took my AP Psychology
course and recognized some issues with her.

Sandra, you bring up an interesting point that before I didn't give a
lot of thought to.  I don't know how the various members of my family
aside from my mom have handled her calls, but my mom and I tend to do
it in a similar way.  We do not have a talking caller ID in my house,
so I don't know who is calling the house until I hear them say
something.  I'll answer very politely, then once I know it's her I
either let her talk and don't get to say much at all, or I pretend to
be my mom or sister in a way by telling her things like I'm sleeping
as I did a few nights ago.  I just talk to her like I would anyone
else calling for someone in the family who is unavailable.  It is
possible that she is seeing something in that that I am not.  That is
definitely some food for thought.

On 12/29/13, Jedi Moerke <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> While  I am glad that you are willing to discuss your private lives with
> each other, I am not personally prepared to hear it. Will you please refrain
> from discussing this on the list? Thank you.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 28, 2013, at 5:30 AM, "I. C. Bray" <i.c.bray at win.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dave, I'll tell you mine, if you tell me yours? ( smiley )
>>
>> I am, of course only being fun & trying to relax the conversation.
>>
>> To everyone,
>>
>> Regardless of whatever fetishes you have, sexuality and intimacy, are
>> definitely separate.
>> Personality is key to Chemistry between people.
>> I don't care how "HOT" or a person is, if you can't talk to them be
>> genuine
>> and share humor, then you aren't going to make it in the bedroom or
>> relationship... unless of course, the relationship is ONLY about sex.
>>
>> If SEX really  is the only basis of the relationship, then fetishes should
>>
>> come out early, otherwise, you have to sneak them in... slowly.
>>
>> Speaking from experience?  YES I AM.  I try not to make my personal &
>> private life this public, but it sounds like there is an open forum here
>> with people who want perspective... I have some to share... you all are
>> welcome to it.
>>
>> My best friend is a two-degreed Psycology Graduate who tought sex edd and
>>
>> does tons of comunity outreach.
>> I have other friends who are Psychiatric doctors.   This subject is a
>> progressive one and it often doesn't get the benefit of being discussed
>> without shame, or embarrassment.
>>
>> The thing that has my neck hair really raising is the borderline
>> personality
>> trait of not respecting boundaries, and the mumbling to one's self.
>> Sexuality, as we all know is key to some personal identity.  It creates
>> films like Psycho, and Blue Velvet and
>> The Graduate and even Risky Business.
>>
>> advice:
>> Someone professional should be notified regarding this person in the hopes
>>
>> that as a professional, they can investigate and prevent any escallation.
>> I think blocking the number is, at this point, not a bad idea.
>> For those of you who have fetishes, I think they are healthy and once you
>>
>> get over the initial uniqueness  and fear of shame or embarrassment, you
>> should let your freak flag fly.
>> We all have our turn-ons and offs.  I do too!  Find a website that is
>> based
>> upon your intrests & fetishes  and make friends is what I'll tell you to
>> do.
>> Diversity is the seasoning and spice of life.  Sometimes it will  come at
>> a
>> cost, but it is the only life you have-- you should live it.
>>
>> Gawd I love open and friendly conversations regarding progressive
>> subjects... I should have been a Hippie.  LOL!
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Ian  C. Bray
>> Louisville, KY.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 00:38:51 2013
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (Mariya Vasileva)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:38:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
References: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <74C9575A-38F2-4B74-B483-25E53560B07B@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 3:59 PM, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kelsey,
> Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and often paint and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, I've never tried the method of using cold nail polish but really like the idea.  My biggest piece of advice to you is just go for it.  The first time I painted my nails it was a mess but honestly after that, it became much easier.
> Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail you've already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I usually do two coats on each hand but that all depends on the color and how light or dark it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if its showing up okay.  When at the beauty salon, pay attention to what the person is doing while painting your nails (Ex: Doing the right hand, then the left, back to the right and ending with the left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail polish because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have some nail polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted girls mess up a lot when they're learning as well so don't feel embarrassed if you get some paint on the skin around the nail or mess up the first few times, just have fun with it.
> On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them using either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just clipping the tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  Then as you feel more comfortable, you can clip shorter and shorter.
> As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in applying? I usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times use foundation and blush, so if you let me know what exactly you would like to start off with I can give you specific tips.
> Happy beautifying and good luck!
> Lizzy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
Hi Lizy, since you do make-up a lot, what are your techniques to applying eye shadow, eye liner, and mascara? I know from a make-up in the dark class that with foundation and blush you feel as you apply and keep track of where you haven't or have applied and making sure that in the end it is even all over by touch, also with lip gloss, liner, and stick, you feel all around the edges and in between the lips as you apply them. Thanks.    

From louvins at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 01:05:09 2013
From: louvins at gmail.com (Joshua Hendrickson)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:05:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <74C9575A-38F2-4B74-B483-25E53560B07B@gmail.com>
References: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
	<74C9575A-38F2-4B74-B483-25E53560B07B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADUoy9v=m1NawN0cYdyyxmae3qrsCiKZj9febSWePE1RDMcYtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to all.  This is very interesting to me.  Even though I'm not a
girl, I have wondered how blind ladies deal with polish make up and
things like that.  I'd suggest calling ahead if you're going to a make
up counter because then, you would know that someone would be able to
help you.  If you just showed up maybe people might be very busy at
the time.  I used to call ahead, when I shopped for groceries at the
school for the blind.  Good luck.

On 12/29/13, Mariya Vasileva <mkvnfb94 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 3:59 PM, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kelsey,
>> Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and often paint
>> and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, I've never tried the
>> method of using cold nail polish but really like the idea.  My biggest
>> piece of advice to you is just go for it.  The first time I painted my
>> nails it was a mess but honestly after that, it became much easier.
>> Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail you've
>> already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I usually do two
>> coats on each hand but that all depends on the color and how light or dark
>> it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if its showing up okay.  When at the
>> beauty salon, pay attention to what the person is doing while painting
>> your nails (Ex: Doing the right hand, then the left, back to the right and
>> ending with the left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail
>> polish because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail
>> making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have some nail
>> polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted girls mess up a lot
>> when they're learning as well so don't feel embarrassed if you get some
>> paint on the skin around the nail or mess up the first few times, just
>> have fun with it.
>> On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them using
>> either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just clipping the
>> tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  Then as you feel more
>> comfortable, you can clip shorter and shorter.
>> As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in applying? I
>> usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times use foundation and
>> blush, so if you let me know what exactly you would like to start off with
>> I can give you specific tips.
>> Happy beautifying and good luck!
>> Lizzy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
> Hi Lizy, since you do make-up a lot, what are your techniques to applying
> eye shadow, eye liner, and mascara? I know from a make-up in the dark class
> that with foundation and blush you feel as you apply and keep track of where
> you haven't or have applied and making sure that in the end it is even all
> over by touch, also with lip gloss, liner, and stick, you feel all around
> the edges and in between the lips as you apply them. Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 02:56:07 2013
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:56:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <CADUoy9v=m1NawN0cYdyyxmae3qrsCiKZj9febSWePE1RDMcYtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com>
	<74C9575A-38F2-4B74-B483-25E53560B07B@gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9v=m1NawN0cYdyyxmae3qrsCiKZj9febSWePE1RDMcYtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBcc72kV-pDO9OmEC4Qv9st+k_HHfzERmXoe8mxCBR3AA@mail.gmail.com>

I've gone to makeup counters at least three times that I can remember,
always just showed up without calling ahead and somebody was always
right there to work with me.
Arielle

On 12/29/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi to all.  This is very interesting to me.  Even though I'm not a
> girl, I have wondered how blind ladies deal with polish make up and
> things like that.  I'd suggest calling ahead if you're going to a make
> up counter because then, you would know that someone would be able to
> help you.  If you just showed up maybe people might be very busy at
> the time.  I used to call ahead, when I shopped for groceries at the
> school for the blind.  Good luck.
>
> On 12/29/13, Mariya Vasileva <mkvnfb94 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 3:59 PM, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Kelsey,
>>> Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and often
>>> paint
>>> and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, I've never tried the
>>> method of using cold nail polish but really like the idea.  My biggest
>>> piece of advice to you is just go for it.  The first time I painted my
>>> nails it was a mess but honestly after that, it became much easier.
>>> Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail you've
>>> already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I usually do two
>>> coats on each hand but that all depends on the color and how light or
>>> dark
>>> it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if its showing up okay.  When at the
>>> beauty salon, pay attention to what the person is doing while painting
>>> your nails (Ex: Doing the right hand, then the left, back to the right
>>> and
>>> ending with the left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail
>>> polish because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail
>>> making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have some nail
>>> polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted girls mess up a
>>> lot
>>> when they're learning as well so don't feel embarrassed if you get some
>>> paint on the skin around the nail or mess up the first few times, just
>>> have fun with it.
>>> On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them using
>>> either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just clipping the
>>> tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  Then as you feel
>>> more
>>> comfortable, you can clip shorter and shorter.
>>> As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in applying? I
>>> usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times use foundation and
>>> blush, so if you let me know what exactly you would like to start off
>>> with
>>> I can give you specific tips.
>>> Happy beautifying and good luck!
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
>> Hi Lizy, since you do make-up a lot, what are your techniques to applying
>> eye shadow, eye liner, and mascara? I know from a make-up in the dark
>> class
>> that with foundation and blush you feel as you apply and keep track of
>> where
>> you haven't or have applied and making sure that in the end it is even
>> all
>> over by touch, also with lip gloss, liner, and stick, you feel all around
>> the edges and in between the lips as you apply them. Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From carlymih at comcast.net  Mon Dec 30 03:48:38 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:48:38 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...  advice?
In-Reply-To: <CAJcYH6-Bf==5_CaQG5gmdFwT-=h20oqshoX5jXTanzzRyboijQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
	<972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6-Bf==5_CaQG5gmdFwT-=h20oqshoX5jXTanzzRyboijQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131229194527.01dee740@comcast.net>



Good evening, Sandy,

Or, you could try projecting love and patience to this girl for, you 
hafta imagine a cold, non reaction is what she's used to receiving. 
Doesn't it continue to seem that this girl is reaching out, looking 
for a shoulder to cry on? Can't we be human once in a whiole?
for today, Car

2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>Hello Kaiti,
>I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
>this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
>speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
>voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
>act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
>reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
>it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
>calling you.
>
>We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
>support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
>clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
>yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
>open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
>support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
>to deal with what they encounter.
>
>Very best wishes,
>Sandra.
>
>On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Melissa,
> >
> > The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
> > that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of these
> > issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being someone
> > with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
> > in the beginning.
> >
> > The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended was
> > just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even put
> > her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
> > difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has chosen
> > to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
> > half or so.
> >
> > I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
> > are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
> > them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
> > more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.  I
> > appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
> > very good to hear, even in logical situations.
> >
> > On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
> >> family,
> >> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk to
> >> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not to
> >> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect already,
> >> and
> >> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms
> >> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help in
> >> the
> >> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a much
> >> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round about
> >> way
> >> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her
> >> life
> >> know what's happening so that she can get help.
> >> jmo
> >> Laurel
> >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had
> >>> people
> >>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact
> >>> the
> >>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They
> >>> won't
> >>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal
> >>> with.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >>> advice?
> >>>
> >>> Dave,
> >>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
> >>> dangerous
> >>> for Kaiti .
> >>>
> >>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed
> >>> under
> >>> a
> >>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
> >>>
> >>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
> >>> beginning
> >>> to feel in over her head.
> >>>
> >>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be
> >>> firm.
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >>> advice?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.  I
> >>> mean
> >>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
> >>> Authorities
> >>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
> >>> :
> >>> : -----Original Message-----
> >>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
> >>> : Pennington
> >>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
> >>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >>> advice?
> >>> :
> >>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with her
> >>> parents
> >>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option
> >>> but
> >>>
> >>> you
> >>> : may need to take such actions.
> >>> :
> >>> : Sent from my iPhone
> >>> :
> >>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
> >>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >>> : wrote:
> >>> : >
> >>> : > Hi,
> >>> : >
> >>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made her
> >>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> >>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> >>> : >
> >>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> >>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had some
> >>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't
> >>> take
> >>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and she
> >>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
> >>> stop
> >>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was crying,
> >>> so
> >>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.  Then
> >>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This
> >>> was
> >>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually talked
> >>> to
> >>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a boyfriend,
> >>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
> >>> : >
> >>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see how
> >>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since she
> >>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> >>> : >
> >>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
> >>> blindness
> >>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've done
> >>> and
> >>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> >>> : >
> >>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have a
> >>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to relationships.
> >>> I
> >>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of a
> >>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've
> >>> tried
> >>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get them
> >>> to
> >>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to talking
> >>> : >> about it.  So.
> >>> : >>
> >>> : >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth
> >>> : >> Taurasi
> >>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> >>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> :
> >>> : _______________________________________________
> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> : nabs-l:
> >>> :
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> >>> :
> >>> :
> >>> : _______________________________________________
> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kaiti
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
>Broadcast Presenter
>
>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
>_______________________________________________
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>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From lissa1531 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 04:07:28 2013
From: lissa1531 at gmail.com (melissa Green)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:07:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
References: <52c08d31.d097e00a.3ef2.ffffc420@mx.google.com><74C9575A-38F2-4B74-B483-25E53560B07B@gmail.com><CADUoy9v=m1NawN0cYdyyxmae3qrsCiKZj9febSWePE1RDMcYtQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJBcc72kV-pDO9OmEC4Qv9st+k_HHfzERmXoe8mxCBR3AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B6059D743E814B839D1438867D633338@HP30910210001>

when I did it, I made an appointment with the lady at the clenique counter.
But you can just go there too.
Good suggestion Arielle.

Best,
Melissa Green and Pj
I am where I am because I believe in all possibilities.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: <louvins at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills


I've gone to makeup counters at least three times that I can remember,
always just showed up without calling ahead and somebody was always
right there to work with me.
Arielle

On 12/29/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi to all.  This is very interesting to me.  Even though I'm not a
> girl, I have wondered how blind ladies deal with polish make up and
> things like that.  I'd suggest calling ahead if you're going to a make
> up counter because then, you would know that someone would be able to
> help you.  If you just showed up maybe people might be very busy at
> the time.  I used to call ahead, when I shopped for groceries at the
> school for the blind.  Good luck.
>
> On 12/29/13, Mariya Vasileva <mkvnfb94 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 3:59 PM, lizzy <lizzym0827 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Kelsey,
>>> Yes, all of these things are possible, I am totally blind and often
>>> paint
>>> and clip my nails as well as apply makeup.  First, I've never tried the
>>> method of using cold nail polish but really like the idea.  My biggest
>>> piece of advice to you is just go for it.  The first time I painted my
>>> nails it was a mess but honestly after that, it became much easier.
>>> Big tips for painting: Keep track of which parts of the nail you've
>>> already done and don't do too many coats of polish.  I usually do two
>>> coats on each hand but that all depends on the color and how light or
>>> dark
>>> it is, so I'd ask an honest friend if its showing up okay.  When at the
>>> beauty salon, pay attention to what the person is doing while painting
>>> your nails (Ex: Doing the right hand, then the left, back to the right
>>> and
>>> ending with the left).  I personally like the smaller containers of nail
>>> polish because they have shorter stems and my hand is closer to my nail
>>> making it easier for me to apply.  Always, always, always have some nail
>>> polish remover on hand.  As someone else said, sighted girls mess up a
>>> lot
>>> when they're learning as well so don't feel embarrassed if you get some
>>> paint on the skin around the nail or mess up the first few times, just
>>> have fun with it.
>>> On to clipping, I clip my nails with clippers then I shape them using
>>> either an emery board or metal file.  Start off small just clipping the
>>> tip of your nail and shaping it how ever you like.  Then as you feel
>>> more
>>> comfortable, you can clip shorter and shorter.
>>> As for makeup, exactly which products are you interested in applying? I
>>> usually use mascara and eye shadow, but I do at times use foundation and
>>> blush, so if you let me know what exactly you would like to start off
>>> with
>>> I can give you specific tips.
>>> Happy beautifying and good luck!
>>> Lizzy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
>> Hi Lizy, since you do make-up a lot, what are your techniques to applying
>> eye shadow, eye liner, and mascara? I know from a make-up in the dark
>> class
>> that with foundation and blush you feel as you apply and keep track of
>> where
>> you haven't or have applied and making sure that in the end it is even
>> all
>> over by touch, also with lip gloss, liner, and stick, you feel all around
>> the edges and in between the lips as you apply them. Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lissa1531%40gmail.com



From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 07:55:00 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 07:55:00 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131229194527.01dee740@comcast.net>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
	<016901cf0376$dffbd040$9ff370c0$@gmail.com>
	<D0A905D096D449A6A3E49B6A271DE3AF@JAWS>
	<01cb01cf0416$7ef01a90$7cd04fb0$@gmail.com>
	<972922F5-6E97-48BD-B95E-3082E59DF750@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6-Bf==5_CaQG5gmdFwT-=h20oqshoX5jXTanzzRyboijQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131229194527.01dee740@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH681gKoGCcqsMWT6RtfAXxzN5b=4TQVVjTQ9P87qLDgX+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Car,
I hope Sandy wasn't referring to me as my name is Sandra. I never
liked shortened forms much, hee hee!

You raise a good point by suggesting Kaiti's nuisance caller should be
given some love, care and attention. I think we can agree that if the
caller gets positive reinforcement, she will keep calling. If she
receives negative reinforcement, this will fan the flames and she will
keep calling. The best way is to keep tone of voice, words spoken as
well as vocal and physical mannerisms nutral while speaking to her.
Kaiti reached out to this list for help and advice to stop this
person's calls and, (if we want to do any good at all),  our primary
aim should be to help Kaiti achieve this. I agree that the caller
wants and needs lots of TLC but this is not Kaiti's responsibility.
Why should it fall to Kaiti and her friend to provide this girl with
the emotional support network she needs when she has a family and can
use the services designed for this? If she can pick up a phone, she
can use a crisis line instead of treating other vulnerable people as a
crisis line substitute.

Kaiti, I think your patience with this girl and your supportiveness
have been admirable. I'm glad what we're saying is giving you ideas to
think about and here are just a couple more to throw in: Pretending to
be someone else or lying about being asleep etc won't help you. She
will pick up on all this even if she can't interpret it well enough to
understand what you're doing. She will feel uncertain at the very
least. We have to ask ourselves what she does with this uncertainty.
She will either be upset by it, intrigued or excited. This will result
in her continuing to call as all these emotions will act as
distractions or fans to her flames. Try not to let her talk and talk
uninterrupted. Maybe she isn't getting the time and space to talk at
home or at school and she is using you and your friend to provide her
with the support she doesn't have at home. This is something else
helplines are designed for and are by no means your responsibility.
You seam like a lovely girl and this may go against your good manners
but when you and she start speaking, interrupt her with your prepared
script, (if you decide to use one). With or without a script,
interrupt her with something along the lines of the ideas already
given to you or with something you come up with yourself. Either way,
it's another component of the conversation no longer open to her which
will help close the channel between you, as it were.

Did you say in your last email that you're sixteen? I didn't realise
you're so young and that makes it even more important that your
emotional wellbeing doesn't suffer as the result of these calls.

Someone asked earlier if we could stop this thread because he or she
doesn't want to hear about private life matters. NB, this is not a
chat room, this is an email list with multiple threads which you can
choose to read or not and I suggest we keep this thread open until the
issue is resolved. Is that alright with everyone else?

It's count down to New Year and I hope everyone enjoys it!
Sandra.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Good evening, Sandy,
>
> Or, you could try projecting love and patience to this girl for, you
> hafta imagine a cold, non reaction is what she's used to receiving.
> Doesn't it continue to seem that this girl is reaching out, looking
> for a shoulder to cry on? Can't we be human once in a whiole?
> for today, Car
>
> 2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>>Hello Kaiti,
>>I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
>>this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
>>speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
>>voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
>>act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
>>reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
>>it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
>>calling you.
>>
>>We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
>>support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
>>clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
>>yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
>>open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
>>support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
>>to deal with what they encounter.
>>
>>Very best wishes,
>>Sandra.
>>
>>On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Melissa,
>> >
>> > The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
>> > that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of these
>> > issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being someone
>> > with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
>> > in the beginning.
>> >
>> > The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended was
>> > just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even put
>> > her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
>> > difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has chosen
>> > to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
>> > half or so.
>> >
>> > I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
>> > are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
>> > them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
>> > more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.  I
>> > appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
>> > very good to hear, even in logical situations.
>> >
>> > On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
>> >> family,
>> >> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk
>> >> to
>> >> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not
>> >> to
>> >> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect
>> >> already,
>> >> and
>> >> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms
>> >> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help
>> >> in
>> >> the
>> >> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a
>> >> much
>> >> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round
>> >> about
>> >> way
>> >> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her
>> >> life
>> >> know what's happening so that she can get help.
>> >> jmo
>> >> Laurel
>> >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had
>> >>> people
>> >>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact
>> >>> the
>> >>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They
>> >>> won't
>> >>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal
>> >>> with.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C.
>> >>> Bray
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >>> advice?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dave,
>> >>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
>> >>> dangerous
>> >>> for Kaiti .
>> >>>
>> >>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed
>> >>> under
>> >>> a
>> >>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>> >>>
>> >>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
>> >>> beginning
>> >>> to feel in over her head.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be
>> >>> firm.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ian
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >>> advice?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.
>> >>> I
>> >>> mean
>> >>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
>> >>> Authorities
>> >>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
>> >>> :
>> >>> : -----Original Message-----
>> >>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
>> >>> : Pennington
>> >>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
>> >>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >>> advice?
>> >>> :
>> >>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with
>> >>> her
>> >>> parents
>> >>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option
>> >>> but
>> >>>
>> >>> you
>> >>> : may need to take such actions.
>> >>> :
>> >>> : Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> :
>> >>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
>> >>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> >>> : wrote:
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : > Hi,
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made
>> >>> her
>> >>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
>> >>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
>> >>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had
>> >>> some
>> >>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't
>> >>> take
>> >>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and
>> >>> she
>> >>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
>> >>> stop
>> >>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was
>> >>> crying,
>> >>> so
>> >>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.
>> >>> Then
>> >>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This
>> >>> was
>> >>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually
>> >>> talked
>> >>> to
>> >>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a
>> >>> boyfriend,
>> >>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see
>> >>> how
>> >>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since
>> >>> she
>> >>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
>> >>> blindness
>> >>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've
>> >>> done
>> >>> and
>> >>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
>> >>> : >
>> >>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have
>> >>> a
>> >>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to
>> >>> relationships.
>> >>> I
>> >>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of
>> >>> a
>> >>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've
>> >>> tried
>> >>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get
>> >>> them
>> >>> to
>> >>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to
>> >>> talking
>> >>> : >> about it.  So.
>> >>> : >>
>> >>> : >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>> Beth
>> >>> : >> Taurasi
>> >>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> >>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> :
>> >>> : _______________________________________________
>> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> for
>> >>> : nabs-l:
>> >>> :
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>> >>> :
>> >>> :
>> >>> : _______________________________________________
>> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> :
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kaiti
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Soprano Singer
>>  www.sandragayer.com
>>
>>Broadcast Presenter
>>
>>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From carlymih at comcast.net  Mon Dec 30 10:41:26 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 02:41:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>
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	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>

Good evening, Jedi,

         Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
for today, Car

Jedi Moerke wrote:
>I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a 
>greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters 
>outside of the country.
>
>Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go 
>to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the 
>resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances. 
>Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I 
>took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness 
>skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable 
>improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we 
>don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in 
>the competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training 
>center for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make 
>someone successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many 
>people waste their time during training, including those I train in 
>the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that 
>training has something to offer anyone who fully engages in the 
>enterprise as my own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of 
>what resources you have and the resources you bring to blindness 
>that make a difference.
>
>As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one 
>could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world. 
>But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that 
>being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the 
>real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind 
>you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and 
>that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with 
>other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of 
>privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing 
>because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it. 
>Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences 
>of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither 
>experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is 
>superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she 
>or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>
>Respectfully,
>Jedi
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining about
> > having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I live here
> > and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you there are no
> > such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, ha ha ha,
> > "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a couple of
> > dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed down yet. In
> > this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide dog bashing. I
> > remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with her cane because
> > some people in her area found it funny to spit on her. I've never been
> > to America although I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB
> > does. If I had access to even half the things you are moaning about, I
> > would be extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side
> > of the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the
> > hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk about
> > how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and
> > live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
> >
> > Very best wishes,
> > Sandra.
> >
> >> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
> >> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be going
> >> to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center to learn
> >> some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend this center
> >> so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for college.
> >> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, but it
> >> is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for out of
> >> state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was mainstreamed
> >> through my Junior year of High School then attended the school for the
> >> blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like mainstreaming a lot better.  I
> >> feel the education I received in public school was better than what I
> >> received at ISVI.  I wish I had learned algebra while at ISVI because
> >> I would have gotten my associates degree a lot quicker and not have
> >> had to take so many remedial math classes.  Like others have already
> >> stated, it is up to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
> >> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
> >> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
> >> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to me
> >> kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
> >> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
> >> they may be worth.
> >>
> >>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Minh,
> >>>
> >>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised with
> >>> opportunities to build confidence.
> >>>
> >>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle brought
> >>> up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the right to an
> >>> informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training center, Al
> >>> Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success measure is whether a
> >>> graduate obtains employment or starts school within a year of
> >>> graduating from training. There are flaws to this. For example, I
> >>> think one year is a long time, and who says employment obtained is the
> >>> desired job. Plus, many people go blind as older adults, so one may
> >>> attend a training center for more daily living skills and decide later
> >>> that they don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable
> >>> measure. I think that the NFB training centers have success rates
> >>> according to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the
> >>> state training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
> >>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
> >>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, and
> >>> not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
> >>>
> >>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you from
> >>> society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to class takes
> >>> up time and working a job takes time, going to training during the day
> >>> does take time. And there are some field trips that were all day or
> >>> overnight, but school and work have these requirements as well. I made
> >>> friends outside the center, volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I
> >>> did not choose to work or do an internship during training, but I
> >>> realize that could have provided another great experience. Once I
> >>> wasn't in class, my time was mine. I happened to make friends with
> >>> center students just as you would make friends with neighbors and
> >>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because
> >>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted
> >>> people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool
> >>> people.
> >>>
> >>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For example,
> >>> your life outside of class does give you opportunities to practice
> >>> your skills and you are expected to use your nonvisual techniques at
> >>> home and in the community. However, I don't think that this
> >>> experiential part of training meant that my time outside of class
> >>> wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that I was not "removed" from
> >>> society.
> >>>
> >>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original topic,
> >>> but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several naysayers and
> >>> people make fun of me for going to training because they perceived it
> >>> as a time when I would be removing myself from society. But it was
> >>> just the opposite. It has allowed me to take more advantage of what
> >>> society has to offer. Someone who already possesses these skills and
> >>> confidence could then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized
> >>> that I needed the opportunity to be successful.
> >>>
> >>> Cindy
> >>>
> >>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Arielle,
> >>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
> >>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Min,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience is the
> >>>>> best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers do is to
> >>>>> provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us who were
> >>>>> sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things out, much less
> >>>>> learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For example, one thing I
> >>>>> did for the first time at LCB was light candles. I had never been
> >>>>> allowed to do anything with matches before I went to LCB. My teacher
> >>>>> at LCB taught me a few tricks but mostly it was just me being required
> >>>>> to swallow my fear and strike a match and put it to the candle.
> >>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle was lit
> >>>>> and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did have decent
> >>>>> skills before coming to the center and I think I probably could have
> >>>>> been reasonably successful without center training. But I had
> >>>>> specialized blindness training at the preschool and in-home
> >>>>> instruction in daily living skills because my parents didn't feel
> >>>>> confident enough to teach me a lot of things themselves at home. I do
> >>>>> think the center gave me a lot of confidence even if I did have skills
> >>>>> and even though I know how to learn things on my own.
> >>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, so I
> >>>>> don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two mornings a week
> >>>>> so it didn't interfere with classes, but it really helped my resume. I
> >>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I hadn't
> >>>>> gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I know some center
> >>>>> students have a brief volunteer stint or take a college class while
> >>>>> they are at the center as part of their training. So it isn't just
> >>>>> blindness training the whole time. In addition, I had a lot of amazing
> >>>>> social experiences while I was there that I probably won't have again
> >>>>> as a working, married woman.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most of the
> >>>>> evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana Tech did
> >>>>> recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center graduates have
> >>>>> higher employment rates and earn higher incomes than those who
> >>>>> attended traditional centers or no center at all. Actually, the rates
> >>>>> were lower among traditional center grads than among those who
> >>>>> attended no center, but the rates were highest among those who
> >>>>> attended NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I
> >>>>> think the research was conducted well and with as little bias as
> >>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center training
> >>>>> actually caused the increase in employment or if people who choose to
> >>>>> go to NFB centers have other attributes that make them more
> >>>>> employable. More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
> >>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
> >>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the unemployment
> >>>>> problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>> Arielle
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> Bridgit,
> >>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught your
> >>>>>> sisters.
> >>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. I had  a
> >>>>>> two
> >>>>>> parent middle class household. My older brothers learned a little bit
> >>>>>> by
> >>>>>> observation. We never did have to do chores because my parents would
> >>>>>> rather
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they did do
> >>>>>> chores
> >>>>>> ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had an ocasional party or
> >>>>>> guests
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers did help
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> chores.
> >>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and personal
> >>>>>> care.
> >>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
> >>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad describing
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride my bike
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> training wheels once I got that.
> >>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a napkin in
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> lap and chew with mouth  closed.
> >>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In fact,
> >>>>>> I've
> >>>>>> met
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their parents
> >>>>>> did
> >>>>>> not expect this of them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal skills, my
> >>>>>> parents
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and blue did
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
> >>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic stuff but
> >>>>>> other
> >>>>>> more advanced dressing skills were taught by my vision teacher.
> >>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster and less
> >>>>>> stressful.
> >>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ashley
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about Jonny who
> >>>>>> has
> >>>>>> autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in the label. The thread
> >>>>>> emphasizes this "we as blind people" thing and I know we have had this
> >>>>>> talk
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me I was
> >>>>>> born
> >>>>>> with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I actually don't
> >>>>>> remember
> >>>>>> much from when I had bits of vision and I'm not totally blind but
> >>>>>> pretty
> >>>>>> close.
> >>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they taught
> >>>>>> my
> >>>>>> sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. Did it take me
> >>>>>> longer?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
> >>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a school for
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> blind.
> >>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision was
> >>>>>> getting
> >>>>>> worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech skills. I also needed
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> learn to cook. As a college student I still fail lol.
> >>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high school.
> >>>>>> That
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but my
> >>>>>> public
> >>>>>> school gave up. I was classified as having a visual processing
> >>>>>> learning
> >>>>>> disability rather then being blind.
> >>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple disabled
> >>>>>> students
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to state
> >>>>>> standards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my public
> >>>>>> school
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never really
> >>>>>> really
> >>>>>> left.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
> >>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we send blind
> >>>>>>> people to "schools for the blind" We as blind people live in the real
> >>>>>>> world,Why do we do it? You don't see mom sending Johnny who has
> >>>>>>> autism
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> >>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> >>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cindy Bennett
> >>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
> >>>
> >>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Soprano Singer
> > www.sandragayer.com
> >
> > Broadcast Presenter
> >
> > www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > 
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> >
>
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>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From carlymih at comcast.net  Mon Dec 30 10:51:11 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 02:51:11 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...  advice?
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Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131230024947.020bb5f0@comcast.net>


Hi, Sandra,

         I'm in to keeping this thread open until it is no longer 
needed. PM 12/29/2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>Hello Car,
>I hope Sandy wasn't referring to me as my name is Sandra. I never
>liked shortened forms much, hee hee!
>
>You raise a good point by suggesting Kaiti's nuisance caller should be
>given some love, care and attention. I think we can agree that if the
>caller gets positive reinforcement, she will keep calling. If she
>receives negative reinforcement, this will fan the flames and she will
>keep calling. The best way is to keep tone of voice, words spoken as
>well as vocal and physical mannerisms nutral while speaking to her.
>Kaiti reached out to this list for help and advice to stop this
>person's calls and, (if we want to do any good at all),  our primary
>aim should be to help Kaiti achieve this. I agree that the caller
>wants and needs lots of TLC but this is not Kaiti's responsibility.
>Why should it fall to Kaiti and her friend to provide this girl with
>the emotional support network she needs when she has a family and can
>use the services designed for this? If she can pick up a phone, she
>can use a crisis line instead of treating other vulnerable people as a
>crisis line substitute.
>
>Kaiti, I think your patience with this girl and your supportiveness
>have been admirable. I'm glad what we're saying is giving you ideas to
>think about and here are just a couple more to throw in: Pretending to
>be someone else or lying about being asleep etc won't help you. She
>will pick up on all this even if she can't interpret it well enough to
>understand what you're doing. She will feel uncertain at the very
>least. We have to ask ourselves what she does with this uncertainty.
>She will either be upset by it, intrigued or excited. This will result
>in her continuing to call as all these emotions will act as
>distractions or fans to her flames. Try not to let her talk and talk
>uninterrupted. Maybe she isn't getting the time and space to talk at
>home or at school and she is using you and your friend to provide her
>with the support she doesn't have at home. This is something else
>helplines are designed for and are by no means your responsibility.
>You seam like a lovely girl and this may go against your good manners
>but when you and she start speaking, interrupt her with your prepared
>script, (if you decide to use one). With or without a script,
>interrupt her with something along the lines of the ideas already
>given to you or with something you come up with yourself. Either way,
>it's another component of the conversation no longer open to her which
>will help close the channel between you, as it were.
>
>Did you say in your last email that you're sixteen? I didn't realise
>you're so young and that makes it even more important that your
>emotional wellbeing doesn't suffer as the result of these calls.
>
>Someone asked earlier if we could stop this thread because he or she
>doesn't want to hear about private life matters. NB, this is not a
>chat room, this is an email list with multiple threads which you can
>choose to read or not and I suggest we keep this thread open until the
>issue is resolved. Is that alright with everyone else?
>
>It's count down to New Year and I hope everyone enjoys it!
>Sandra.
>
>On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Good evening, Sandy,
> >
> > Or, you could try projecting love and patience to this girl for, you
> > hafta imagine a cold, non reaction is what she's used to receiving.
> > Doesn't it continue to seem that this girl is reaching out, looking
> > for a shoulder to cry on? Can't we be human once in a whiole?
> > for today, Car
> >
> > 2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
> >>Hello Kaiti,
> >>I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
> >>this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
> >>speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
> >>voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
> >>act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
> >>reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
> >>it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
> >>calling you.
> >>
> >>We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
> >>support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
> >>clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
> >>yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
> >>open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
> >>support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
> >>to deal with what they encounter.
> >>
> >>Very best wishes,
> >>Sandra.
> >>
> >>On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi Melissa,
> >> >
> >> > The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
> >> > that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of these
> >> > issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being someone
> >> > with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
> >> > in the beginning.
> >> >
> >> > The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended was
> >> > just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even put
> >> > her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
> >> > difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has chosen
> >> > to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
> >> > half or so.
> >> >
> >> > I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
> >> > are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
> >> > them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
> >> > more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.  I
> >> > appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
> >> > very good to hear, even in logical situations.
> >> >
> >> > On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
> >> >> family,
> >> >> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and talk
> >> >> to
> >> >> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her not
> >> >> to
> >> >> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect
> >> >> already,
> >> >> and
> >> >> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain terms
> >> >> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some help
> >> >> in
> >> >> the
> >> >> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a
> >> >> much
> >> >> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round
> >> >> about
> >> >> way
> >> >> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in her
> >> >> life
> >> >> know what's happening so that she can get help.
> >> >> jmo
> >> >> Laurel
> >> >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I had
> >> >>> people
> >> >>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to contact
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.  They
> >> >>> won't
> >> >>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to deal
> >> >>> with.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C.
> >> >>> Bray
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >> >>> advice?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Dave,
> >> >>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
> >> >>> dangerous
> >> >>> for Kaiti .
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and placed
> >> >>> under
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
> >> >>> beginning
> >> >>> to feel in over her head.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to  be
> >> >>> firm.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Ian
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
> >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> >>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >> >>> advice?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's doing.
> >> >>> I
> >> >>> mean
> >> >>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
> >> >>> Authorities
> >> >>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lillie
> >> >>> : Pennington
> >> >>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
> >> >>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
> >> >>> advice?
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with
> >> >>> her
> >> >>> parents
> >> >>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme option
> >> >>> but
> >> >>>
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> : may need to take such actions.
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
> >> >>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >> >>> : wrote:
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : > Hi,
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it made
> >> >>> her
> >> >>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm not
> >> >>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff, but
> >> >>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She had
> >> >>> some
> >> >>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they didn't
> >> >>> take
> >> >>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and
> >> >>> she
> >> >>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made would
> >> >>> stop
> >> >>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was
> >> >>> crying,
> >> >>> so
> >> >>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.
> >> >>> Then
> >> >>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.  This
> >> >>> was
> >> >>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually
> >> >>> talked
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a
> >> >>> boyfriend,
> >> >>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see
> >> >>> how
> >> >>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice since
> >> >>> she
> >> >>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the past.
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
> >> >>> blindness
> >> >>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've
> >> >>> done
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she does.
> >> >>> : >
> >> >>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I have
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to
> >> >>> relationships.
> >> >>> I
> >> >>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit of
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.  I've
> >> >>> tried
> >> >>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get
> >> >>> them
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to
> >> >>> talking
> >> >>> : >> about it.  So.
> >> >>> : >>
> >> >>> : >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> >> >>> Beth
> >> >>> : >> Taurasi
> >> >>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
> >> >>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : _______________________________________________
> >> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> : nabs-l:
> >> >>> :
> >> >>>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> : _______________________________________________
> >> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>> :
> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Kaiti
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> > nabs-l:
> >> >
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Soprano Singer
> >>  www.sandragayer.com
> >>
> >>Broadcast Presenter
> >>
> >>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>nabs-l mailing list
> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Soprano Singer
>  www.sandragayer.com
>
>Broadcast Presenter
>
>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 17:47:29 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:47:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work... advice?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131230024947.020bb5f0@comcast.net>
References: <52be212a.e71b310a.5d71.fffff1fcSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<015b01cf036c$4e0d9ce0$ea28d6a0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYZMaTy4v41KP+yVth5iq5fmEtqMZfAg3vzdgGDJuriWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E268A87B-E354-4615-8C7A-5864FAC4B82A@fuse.net>
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	<CAFja7FaStrn7FGd=3xw7f8rHrCAYHD5fZutF-=7q-smTNS5i-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH6-Bf==5_CaQG5gmdFwT-=h20oqshoX5jXTanzzRyboijQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131229194527.01dee740@comcast.net>
	<CAJcYH681gKoGCcqsMWT6RtfAXxzN5b=4TQVVjTQ9P87qLDgX+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024947.020bb5f0@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FY4pa+k7QRoakJhJNb2k2XLEfNZXn4CTPGbY5YMo4wveg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thanks, Sandra.  I have started writing something down along the lines
of a script and like that idea.  I am 20 now, but I was 16 and 17 when
I met her and tried to help her think more positively.

I understand that some may not feel comfortable with some of the
secondary topics that have been raised on this thread, and I did not
know these would come up.  I wrote for advice on what I felt was a
pretty serious issue and didn't know that the topics would offshoot as
they had.  I think what Jedi was asking was that the personal stuff
move somewhere else rather than stop entirely.  It can be pretty
shocking to open an email asking for advice on how to handle a topic
like I have discussed and finding some personal information that is
not related to the topic at hand.  At the least, it would clear up
confusion by keeping the conversation on the thread relevant as we are
supposed to do on the list.  I'm all for open communication and think
people should be able to discuss what they want amongst themselves,
but that does not mean this topic and the others have to take place on
the same discussion thread for the sake of clarity and so people can
get what they expect when they click on an email with a particular
subject line.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sandra,
>
>          I'm in to keeping this thread open until it is no longer
> needed. PM 12/29/2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>>Hello Car,
>>I hope Sandy wasn't referring to me as my name is Sandra. I never
>>liked shortened forms much, hee hee!
>>
>>You raise a good point by suggesting Kaiti's nuisance caller should be
>>given some love, care and attention. I think we can agree that if the
>>caller gets positive reinforcement, she will keep calling. If she
>>receives negative reinforcement, this will fan the flames and she will
>>keep calling. The best way is to keep tone of voice, words spoken as
>>well as vocal and physical mannerisms nutral while speaking to her.
>>Kaiti reached out to this list for help and advice to stop this
>>person's calls and, (if we want to do any good at all),  our primary
>>aim should be to help Kaiti achieve this. I agree that the caller
>>wants and needs lots of TLC but this is not Kaiti's responsibility.
>>Why should it fall to Kaiti and her friend to provide this girl with
>>the emotional support network she needs when she has a family and can
>>use the services designed for this? If she can pick up a phone, she
>>can use a crisis line instead of treating other vulnerable people as a
>>crisis line substitute.
>>
>>Kaiti, I think your patience with this girl and your supportiveness
>>have been admirable. I'm glad what we're saying is giving you ideas to
>>think about and here are just a couple more to throw in: Pretending to
>>be someone else or lying about being asleep etc won't help you. She
>>will pick up on all this even if she can't interpret it well enough to
>>understand what you're doing. She will feel uncertain at the very
>>least. We have to ask ourselves what she does with this uncertainty.
>>She will either be upset by it, intrigued or excited. This will result
>>in her continuing to call as all these emotions will act as
>>distractions or fans to her flames. Try not to let her talk and talk
>>uninterrupted. Maybe she isn't getting the time and space to talk at
>>home or at school and she is using you and your friend to provide her
>>with the support she doesn't have at home. This is something else
>>helplines are designed for and are by no means your responsibility.
>>You seam like a lovely girl and this may go against your good manners
>>but when you and she start speaking, interrupt her with your prepared
>>script, (if you decide to use one). With or without a script,
>>interrupt her with something along the lines of the ideas already
>>given to you or with something you come up with yourself. Either way,
>>it's another component of the conversation no longer open to her which
>>will help close the channel between you, as it were.
>>
>>Did you say in your last email that you're sixteen? I didn't realise
>>you're so young and that makes it even more important that your
>>emotional wellbeing doesn't suffer as the result of these calls.
>>
>>Someone asked earlier if we could stop this thread because he or she
>>doesn't want to hear about private life matters. NB, this is not a
>>chat room, this is an email list with multiple threads which you can
>>choose to read or not and I suggest we keep this thread open until the
>>issue is resolved. Is that alright with everyone else?
>>
>>It's count down to New Year and I hope everyone enjoys it!
>>Sandra.
>>
>>On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Good evening, Sandy,
>> >
>> > Or, you could try projecting love and patience to this girl for, you
>> > hafta imagine a cold, non reaction is what she's used to receiving.
>> > Doesn't it continue to seem that this girl is reaching out, looking
>> > for a shoulder to cry on? Can't we be human once in a whiole?
>> > for today, Car
>> >
>> > 2013, Sandra Gayer wrote:
>> >>Hello Kaiti,
>> >>I'm glad you're thinking positively about the advice given through
>> >>this list. It's worth adding that, when you or members of your family
>> >>speak to her again, keep signs of distress or pleasure out of your
>> >>voices and mannerisms. If she hears signs of your good mood, it will
>> >>act as a distraction from her own fears, giving her an emotional
>> >>reason to keep calling you. If she hears stress and anxiety from you,
>> >>it will feed her own fears, giving her an emotional reason to keep
>> >>calling you.
>> >>
>> >>We have suggested you recommend crisis lines, web based emotional
>> >>support services  and therapy to this girl. However, all of this is
>> >>clearly taking its toll on you and if you need emotional support
>> >>yourself, don't hesitate to avail of any available service. They are
>> >>open to anyone who needs them at any time. You have as much right to
>> >>support as anyone else. Even helpline volunteers need regular support
>> >>to deal with what they encounter.
>> >>
>> >>Very best wishes,
>> >>Sandra.
>> >>
>> >>On 12/29/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Melissa,
>> >> >
>> >> > The NFB Philosophy part came from my attempts to try to help her see
>> >> > that being blind is not the end of the world.  I think a lot of
>> >> > these
>> >> > issues are related to very low self-esteem in regards to being
>> >> > someone
>> >> > with a visual impairment, so that was what I tried to do to help her
>> >> > in the beginning.
>> >> >
>> >> > The whole thing just seemed so odd... The program we both attended
>> >> > was
>> >> > just a weekend thing, so by meeting this girl once I wouldn't even
>> >> > put
>> >> > her into the category of being an acquaintance.  It has been really
>> >> > difficult for me and my other friend to figure out why she has
>> >> > chosen
>> >> > to continually call us because we only were with her for a day and a
>> >> > half or so.
>> >> >
>> >> > I always make an effort to help and reach out to other students who
>> >> > are having trouble with their acceptance of blindness when I meet
>> >> > them, but my attempts just didn't work with her and there is nothing
>> >> > more I can do, especially since I'm not even home most of the time.
>> >> > I
>> >> > appreciate the sound advice I've been given; sometimes that can be
>> >> > very good to hear, even in logical situations.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 12/28/13, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> You know, seriously, if she's calling your house and bothering your
>> >> >> family,
>> >> >> and her own parents might not be aware, then call her parents and
>> >> >> talk
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> them. Tell them what happens when she calls, and that you wish her
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> call any more. I believe somebody said something to this effect
>> >> >> already,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> I agree. This way you're doing 3 things, you're in no uncertain
>> >> >> terms
>> >> >> telling her to stop bothering you, you're also getting her some
>> >> >> help
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> form of letting her parents know what's going on, and they are in a
>> >> >> much
>> >> >> better position to actually make her get help, and you in a round
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> way
>> >> >> are showing that you care. You care enough to let somebody else in
>> >> >> her
>> >> >> life
>> >> >> know what's happening so that she can get help.
>> >> >> jmo
>> >> >> Laurel
>> >> >> On Dec 28, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Yea true.  I've had some problems like that in the past whare I
>> >> >>> had
>> >> >>> people
>> >> >>> calling me that I didn't want to talk to anymore.  I tried to
>> >> >>> contact
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> police and all of that and they just say just block her number.
>> >> >>> They
>> >> >>> won't
>> >> >>> do anything.  Especially since they have more serious issues to
>> >> >>> deal
>> >> >>> with.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C.
>> >> >>> Bray
>> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:49 AM
>> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Dave,
>> >> >>> It is not so much that it is illegal, but that it is potentially
>> >> >>> dangerous
>> >> >>> for Kaiti .
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Stalking isn't illegal-- except when you have been warned and
>> >> >>> placed
>> >> >>> under
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> court order, but we all agree it is somewhat unnerving.. NO?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I hear where you're coming from, but the point I think is Kaiti is
>> >> >>> beginning
>> >> >>> to feel in over her head.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Bless you for being sensitive, Kaiti, but sometimes you have to
>> >> >>> be
>> >> >>> firm.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Ian
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> From: "Dave Webster" <dwebster125 at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 9:45 PM
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> :I wouldn't go that far.  Per haps her parents know what she's
>> >> >>> doing.
>> >> >>> I
>> >> >>> mean
>> >> >>> : it was her parents that gave her the list of people anyhow.
>> >> >>> Authorities
>> >> >>> : won't do much sh'es not doing anything that's against the law.
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> : From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> >>> Lillie
>> >> >>> : Pennington
>> >> >>> : Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 6:10 PM
>> >> >>> : To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> : Subject: Re: [nabs-l] When NFB philosophy doesn't seem to
>> >> >>> work...
>> >> >>> advice?
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : I hate to suggest this, but have you tried getting in touch with
>> >> >>> her
>> >> >>> parents
>> >> >>> : or other authorities in her area? This is sort of an extreme
>> >> >>> option
>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> : may need to take such actions.
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : > On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:46 PM, Kaiti Shelton
>> >> >>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> : wrote:
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > Hi,
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > I tried mentioning the idea of getting help to her, and it
>> >> >>> made
>> >> >>> her
>> >> >>> : > upset.  She can get really mad at me when she thinks that I'm
>> >> >>> not
>> >> >>> : > taking her seriously or are avoiding talking to her.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > A lot of what she has told me about has been blindness stuff,
>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>> : > there are some odd social tendencies that she has too.  She
>> >> >>> had
>> >> >>> some
>> >> >>> : > issues with teachers in high school because she said they
>> >> >>> didn't
>> >> >>> take
>> >> >>> : > her seriously and weren't treating her like everyone else, and
>> >> >>> she
>> >> >>> : > also kept telling me that her "blind friends" that she made
>> >> >>> would
>> >> >>> stop
>> >> >>> : > talking to her.  Often she would tell me this while she was
>> >> >>> crying,
>> >> >>> so
>> >> >>> : > I couldn't understand what she was saying about the situation.
>> >> >>> Then
>> >> >>> : > she told me her parents were going to make her see someone.
>> >> >>> This
>> >> >>> was
>> >> >>> : > in my senior year of high school.  The last time I actually
>> >> >>> talked
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> : > her, things seemed pretty good.  She was saying she got a
>> >> >>> boyfriend,
>> >> >>> : > so I thought things would be going better.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > If she calls again I will offer her a help line number and see
>> >> >>> how
>> >> >>> : > that goes, but I'm wondering if she will take that advice
>> >> >>> since
>> >> >>> she
>> >> >>> : > was so opposed to therapy when I mentioned it to her in the
>> >> >>> past.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : > I do think a lot of her problems stem from a combination of
>> >> >>> blindness
>> >> >>> : > issues and some social quirks, but I feel in those areas I've
>> >> >>> done
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> : > said all I know to.  I will try this again and see what she
>> >> >>> does.
>> >> >>> : >
>> >> >>> : >> On 12/27/13, Dave Webster <dwebster125 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> : >> Yea.  I still at times don't know how to deal with girls.  I
>> >> >>> have
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> : >> tendency to move too fast at times when it comes to
>> >> >>> relationships.
>> >> >>> I
>> >> >>> : >> don't mean to embarrass you or anything but I also have a bit
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> : >> strange fettish which I've struggled with my whole life.
>> >> >>> I've
>> >> >>> tried
>> >> >>> : >> to tlak to therpists about it but I've noto been able to get
>> >> >>> them
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> : >> help with it.  They don't want to touch it when it comes to
>> >> >>> talking
>> >> >>> : >> about it.  So.
>> >> >>> : >>
>> >> >>> : >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> : >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> >>> Beth
>> >> >>> : >> Taurasi
>> >> >>> : >> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 4:53 PM
>> >> >>> : >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >> >>> info
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> : nabs-l:
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> : _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> : nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> : nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> : http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> : To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >> >>> info
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> :
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/i.c.bray%40win.net
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> >>> for
>> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Kaiti
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> > for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>Soprano Singer
>> >>  www.sandragayer.com
>> >>
>> >>Broadcast Presenter
>> >>
>> >>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>nabs-l mailing list
>> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Soprano Singer
>>  www.sandragayer.com
>>
>>Broadcast Presenter
>>
>>www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 17:58:44 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:58:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>
	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>
	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility
stuff so students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school
for the blind, they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the
public school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP
meetings a few times, but I got to college with experience in asking
for materials in advance, planning with teachers, and communicating
with teachers and my braillist to get the materials done.  I think
what happens to a lot of students who go to schools for the blind is
that they're so used to having their materials just handed to them
without accessibility issues, so when they get to college they think
they are entitled to those materials without asking for them.

I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues
when she got to college because she refused to do any work that was
not given to her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in
alternative formats these days, I'm sure most college students on here
can imagine how much work was missed.  Expecting everything to be in
braille once you leave a school for the blind is not realistic, and if
that is what schools for the blind are doing they're actually doing a
great disservice to their students.  I am all for them teaching
braille literacy, but submitting electronic assignments and using the
computer to get your work done is just part of the college experience
for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.

For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way
through my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from
my high school teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of
getting everything from them.  This involved checking in with each one
of them every week to see what we were doing in the next week.  Tests
needed even more preplanning.  I was responsible for delivering all
work that needed to be transcribed to my braillist on my lunch breaks
or before I left the building at the end of the day.  Most of the time
she gave me braille because that was what she was used to doing, (I
had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and braillist, and from
4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She was in a habit
of brailling everything because that was how we did it from 4th to
about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot though,
I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments electronically, and got
feedback on my work electronically as well.  Email, dropbox, and
flashdrives will be your best friends in college, and they'll be even
easier to work with if you get used to submitting assignments in that
way early on while in high school.  Develop those self-advocacy
skills; they will serve you well.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good evening, Jedi,
>
>          Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
> for today, Car
>
> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a
>>greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters
>>outside of the country.
>>
>>Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go
>>to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the
>>resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I
>>took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness
>>skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable
>>improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we
>>don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in
>>the competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training
>>center for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make
>>someone successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many
>>people waste their time during training, including those I train in
>>the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that
>>training has something to offer anyone who fully engages in the
>>enterprise as my own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of
>>what resources you have and the resources you bring to blindness
>>that make a difference.
>>
>>As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one
>>could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that
>>being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the
>>real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind
>>you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and
>>that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with
>>other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of
>>privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing
>>because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences
>>of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither
>>experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is
>>superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she
>>or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>Jedi
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining about
>> > having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I live here
>> > and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you there are no
>> > such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, ha ha ha,
>> > "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a couple of
>> > dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed down yet. In
>> > this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide dog bashing. I
>> > remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with her cane because
>> > some people in her area found it funny to spit on her. I've never been
>> > to America although I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB
>> > does. If I had access to even half the things you are moaning about, I
>> > would be extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side
>> > of the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the
>> > hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk about
>> > how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and
>> > live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>> >
>> > Very best wishes,
>> > Sandra.
>> >
>> >> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>> >> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be going
>> >> to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center to learn
>> >> some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend this center
>> >> so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for college.
>> >> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, but it
>> >> is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for out of
>> >> state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was mainstreamed
>> >> through my Junior year of High School then attended the school for the
>> >> blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like mainstreaming a lot better.  I
>> >> feel the education I received in public school was better than what I
>> >> received at ISVI.  I wish I had learned algebra while at ISVI because
>> >> I would have gotten my associates degree a lot quicker and not have
>> >> had to take so many remedial math classes.  Like others have already
>> >> stated, it is up to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>> >> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
>> >> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
>> >> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to me
>> >> kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
>> >> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
>> >> they may be worth.
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Minh,
>> >>>
>> >>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised with
>> >>> opportunities to build confidence.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle
>> >>> brought
>> >>> up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the right to an
>> >>> informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training center, Al
>> >>> Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success measure is whether
>> >>> a
>> >>> graduate obtains employment or starts school within a year of
>> >>> graduating from training. There are flaws to this. For example, I
>> >>> think one year is a long time, and who says employment obtained is
>> >>> the
>> >>> desired job. Plus, many people go blind as older adults, so one may
>> >>> attend a training center for more daily living skills and decide
>> >>> later
>> >>> that they don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable
>> >>> measure. I think that the NFB training centers have success rates
>> >>> according to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the
>> >>> state training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>> >>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>> >>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, and
>> >>> not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you from
>> >>> society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to class
>> >>> takes
>> >>> up time and working a job takes time, going to training during the
>> >>> day
>> >>> does take time. And there are some field trips that were all day or
>> >>> overnight, but school and work have these requirements as well. I
>> >>> made
>> >>> friends outside the center, volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I
>> >>> did not choose to work or do an internship during training, but I
>> >>> realize that could have provided another great experience. Once I
>> >>> wasn't in class, my time was mine. I happened to make friends with
>> >>> center students just as you would make friends with neighbors and
>> >>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because
>> >>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted
>> >>> people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool
>> >>> people.
>> >>>
>> >>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For example,
>> >>> your life outside of class does give you opportunities to practice
>> >>> your skills and you are expected to use your nonvisual techniques at
>> >>> home and in the community. However, I don't think that this
>> >>> experiential part of training meant that my time outside of class
>> >>> wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that I was not "removed" from
>> >>> society.
>> >>>
>> >>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original topic,
>> >>> but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several naysayers and
>> >>> people make fun of me for going to training because they perceived it
>> >>> as a time when I would be removing myself from society. But it was
>> >>> just the opposite. It has allowed me to take more advantage of what
>> >>> society has to offer. Someone who already possesses these skills and
>> >>> confidence could then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized
>> >>> that I needed the opportunity to be successful.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Arielle,
>> >>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
>> >>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Min,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience is
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers do is to
>> >>>>> provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us who were
>> >>>>> sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things out, much less
>> >>>>> learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For example, one thing I
>> >>>>> did for the first time at LCB was light candles. I had never been
>> >>>>> allowed to do anything with matches before I went to LCB. My
>> >>>>> teacher
>> >>>>> at LCB taught me a few tricks but mostly it was just me being
>> >>>>> required
>> >>>>> to swallow my fear and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>> >>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle was
>> >>>>> lit
>> >>>>> and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did have decent
>> >>>>> skills before coming to the center and I think I probably could
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> been reasonably successful without center training. But I had
>> >>>>> specialized blindness training at the preschool and in-home
>> >>>>> instruction in daily living skills because my parents didn't feel
>> >>>>> confident enough to teach me a lot of things themselves at home. I
>> >>>>> do
>> >>>>> think the center gave me a lot of confidence even if I did have
>> >>>>> skills
>> >>>>> and even though I know how to learn things on my own.
>> >>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, so
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two mornings a
>> >>>>> week
>> >>>>> so it didn't interfere with classes, but it really helped my resume.
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I hadn't
>> >>>>> gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I know some
>> >>>>> center
>> >>>>> students have a brief volunteer stint or take a college class while
>> >>>>> they are at the center as part of their training. So it isn't just
>> >>>>> blindness training the whole time. In addition, I had a lot of
>> >>>>> amazing
>> >>>>> social experiences while I was there that I probably won't have
>> >>>>> again
>> >>>>> as a working, married woman.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most of
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana Tech did
>> >>>>> recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center graduates
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> higher employment rates and earn higher incomes than those who
>> >>>>> attended traditional centers or no center at all. Actually, the
>> >>>>> rates
>> >>>>> were lower among traditional center grads than among those who
>> >>>>> attended no center, but the rates were highest among those who
>> >>>>> attended NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I
>> >>>>> think the research was conducted well and with as little bias as
>> >>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center training
>> >>>>> actually caused the increase in employment or if people who choose
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> go to NFB centers have other attributes that make them more
>> >>>>> employable. More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
>> >>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
>> >>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the unemployment
>> >>>>> problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best,
>> >>>>> Arielle
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Bridgit,
>> >>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught your
>> >>>>>> sisters.
>> >>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. I had
>> >>>>>>  a
>> >>>>>> two
>> >>>>>> parent middle class household. My older brothers learned a little
>> >>>>>> bit
>> >>>>>> by
>> >>>>>> observation. We never did have to do chores because my parents
>> >>>>>> would
>> >>>>>> rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they did
>> >>>>>> do
>> >>>>>> chores
>> >>>>>> ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had an ocasional party
>> >>>>>> or
>> >>>>>> guests
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers did
>> >>>>>> help
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>> chores.
>> >>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and personal
>> >>>>>> care.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad
>> >>>>>> describing
>> >>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride my
>> >>>>>> bike
>> >>>>>> with
>> >>>>>> training wheels once I got that.
>> >>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a napkin
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>> your
>> >>>>>> lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>> >>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In
>> >>>>>> fact,
>> >>>>>> I've
>> >>>>>> met
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their
>> >>>>>> parents
>> >>>>>> did
>> >>>>>> not expect this of them.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal skills,
>> >>>>>> my
>> >>>>>> parents
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and blue
>> >>>>>> did
>> >>>>>> not
>> >>>>>> go
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic stuff
>> >>>>>> but
>> >>>>>> other
>> >>>>>> more advanced dressing skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster and
>> >>>>>> less
>> >>>>>> stressful.
>> >>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ashley
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about Jonny
>> >>>>>> who
>> >>>>>> has
>> >>>>>> autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in the label. The
>> >>>>>> thread
>> >>>>>> emphasizes this "we as blind people" thing and I know we have had
>> >>>>>> this
>> >>>>>> talk
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me I
>> >>>>>> was
>> >>>>>> born
>> >>>>>> with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I actually don't
>> >>>>>> remember
>> >>>>>> much from when I had bits of vision and I'm not totally blind but
>> >>>>>> pretty
>> >>>>>> close.
>> >>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they
>> >>>>>> taught
>> >>>>>> my
>> >>>>>> sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. Did it take
>> >>>>>> me
>> >>>>>> longer?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
>> >>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a school
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> blind.
>> >>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision was
>> >>>>>> getting
>> >>>>>> worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech skills. I also
>> >>>>>> needed
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>> learn to cook. As a college student I still fail lol.
>> >>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high
>> >>>>>> school.
>> >>>>>> That
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but my
>> >>>>>> public
>> >>>>>> school gave up. I was classified as having a visual processing
>> >>>>>> learning
>> >>>>>> disability rather then being blind.
>> >>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple disabled
>> >>>>>> students
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to state
>> >>>>>> standards.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my public
>> >>>>>> school
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never really
>> >>>>>> really
>> >>>>>> left.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>> >>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we send
>> >>>>>>> blind
>> >>>>>>> people to "schools for the blind" We as blind people live in the
>> >>>>>>> real
>> >>>>>>> world,Why do we do it? You don't see mom sending Johnny who has
>> >>>>>>> autism
>> >>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>> >>>> dusty
>> >>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> >>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> >>>
>> >>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Soprano Singer
>> > www.sandragayer.com
>> >
>> > Broadcast Presenter
>> >
>> > www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
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>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Kaiti


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Mon Dec 30 18:22:23 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:22:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>
	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>
	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F6FD4EF-8E07-44E9-A346-237A07C06E71@fuse.net>

What I personally do is have my teachers email or drop box. Most assignments. Heck, one teacher gave me a flash drive with most of the assignments for the year. Of course this took meetings and discussions of what each teacher is comfortable with.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility
> stuff so students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school
> for the blind, they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
> I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the
> public school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP
> meetings a few times, but I got to college with experience in asking
> for materials in advance, planning with teachers, and communicating
> with teachers and my braillist to get the materials done.  I think
> what happens to a lot of students who go to schools for the blind is
> that they're so used to having their materials just handed to them
> without accessibility issues, so when they get to college they think
> they are entitled to those materials without asking for them.
> 
> I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues
> when she got to college because she refused to do any work that was
> not given to her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in
> alternative formats these days, I'm sure most college students on here
> can imagine how much work was missed.  Expecting everything to be in
> braille once you leave a school for the blind is not realistic, and if
> that is what schools for the blind are doing they're actually doing a
> great disservice to their students.  I am all for them teaching
> braille literacy, but submitting electronic assignments and using the
> computer to get your work done is just part of the college experience
> for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.
> 
> For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way
> through my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from
> my high school teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of
> getting everything from them.  This involved checking in with each one
> of them every week to see what we were doing in the next week.  Tests
> needed even more preplanning.  I was responsible for delivering all
> work that needed to be transcribed to my braillist on my lunch breaks
> or before I left the building at the end of the day.  Most of the time
> she gave me braille because that was what she was used to doing, (I
> had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and braillist, and from
> 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She was in a habit
> of brailling everything because that was how we did it from 4th to
> about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot though,
> I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments electronically, and got
> feedback on my work electronically as well.  Email, dropbox, and
> flashdrives will be your best friends in college, and they'll be even
> easier to work with if you get used to submitting assignments in that
> way early on while in high school.  Develop those self-advocacy
> skills; they will serve you well.
> 
>> On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Good evening, Jedi,
>> 
>>         Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
>> for today, Car
>> 
>> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>> I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a
>>> greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters
>>> outside of the country.
>>> 
>>> Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go
>>> to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the
>>> resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>> Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I
>>> took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness
>>> skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable
>>> improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we
>>> don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in
>>> the competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training
>>> center for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make
>>> someone successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many
>>> people waste their time during training, including those I train in
>>> the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that
>>> training has something to offer anyone who fully engages in the
>>> enterprise as my own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of
>>> what resources you have and the resources you bring to blindness
>>> that make a difference.
>>> 
>>> As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one
>>> could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>> But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that
>>> being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the
>>> real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind
>>> you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and
>>> that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with
>>> other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of
>>> privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing
>>> because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>> Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences
>>> of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither
>>> experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is
>>> superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she
>>> or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining about
>>>> having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I live here
>>>> and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you there are no
>>>> such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, ha ha ha,
>>>> "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a couple of
>>>> dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed down yet. In
>>>> this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide dog bashing. I
>>>> remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with her cane because
>>>> some people in her area found it funny to spit on her. I've never been
>>>> to America although I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB
>>>> does. If I had access to even half the things you are moaning about, I
>>>> would be extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side
>>>> of the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the
>>>> hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk about
>>>> how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and
>>>> live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>>>> 
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>>>>> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be going
>>>>> to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center to learn
>>>>> some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend this center
>>>>> so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for college.
>>>>> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, but it
>>>>> is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for out of
>>>>> state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was mainstreamed
>>>>> through my Junior year of High School then attended the school for the
>>>>> blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like mainstreaming a lot better.  I
>>>>> feel the education I received in public school was better than what I
>>>>> received at ISVI.  I wish I had learned algebra while at ISVI because
>>>>> I would have gotten my associates degree a lot quicker and not have
>>>>> had to take so many remedial math classes.  Like others have already
>>>>> stated, it is up to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>>>>> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
>>>>> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
>>>>> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to me
>>>>> kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
>>>>> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
>>>>> they may be worth.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Minh,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised with
>>>>>> opportunities to build confidence.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle
>>>>>> brought
>>>>>> up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the right to an
>>>>>> informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training center, Al
>>>>>> Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success measure is whether
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> graduate obtains employment or starts school within a year of
>>>>>> graduating from training. There are flaws to this. For example, I
>>>>>> think one year is a long time, and who says employment obtained is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> desired job. Plus, many people go blind as older adults, so one may
>>>>>> attend a training center for more daily living skills and decide
>>>>>> later
>>>>>> that they don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable
>>>>>> measure. I think that the NFB training centers have success rates
>>>>>> according to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the
>>>>>> state training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>>>>>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>>>>>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, and
>>>>>> not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you from
>>>>>> society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to class
>>>>>> takes
>>>>>> up time and working a job takes time, going to training during the
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> does take time. And there are some field trips that were all day or
>>>>>> overnight, but school and work have these requirements as well. I
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> friends outside the center, volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I
>>>>>> did not choose to work or do an internship during training, but I
>>>>>> realize that could have provided another great experience. Once I
>>>>>> wasn't in class, my time was mine. I happened to make friends with
>>>>>> center students just as you would make friends with neighbors and
>>>>>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because
>>>>>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted
>>>>>> people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For example,
>>>>>> your life outside of class does give you opportunities to practice
>>>>>> your skills and you are expected to use your nonvisual techniques at
>>>>>> home and in the community. However, I don't think that this
>>>>>> experiential part of training meant that my time outside of class
>>>>>> wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that I was not "removed" from
>>>>>> society.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original topic,
>>>>>> but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several naysayers and
>>>>>> people make fun of me for going to training because they perceived it
>>>>>> as a time when I would be removing myself from society. But it was
>>>>>> just the opposite. It has allowed me to take more advantage of what
>>>>>> society has to offer. Someone who already possesses these skills and
>>>>>> confidence could then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized
>>>>>> that I needed the opportunity to be successful.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
>>>>>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Min,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience is
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers do is to
>>>>>>>> provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us who were
>>>>>>>> sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things out, much less
>>>>>>>> learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For example, one thing I
>>>>>>>> did for the first time at LCB was light candles. I had never been
>>>>>>>> allowed to do anything with matches before I went to LCB. My
>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>> at LCB taught me a few tricks but mostly it was just me being
>>>>>>>> required
>>>>>>>> to swallow my fear and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>>>>>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle was
>>>>>>>> lit
>>>>>>>> and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did have decent
>>>>>>>> skills before coming to the center and I think I probably could
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> been reasonably successful without center training. But I had
>>>>>>>> specialized blindness training at the preschool and in-home
>>>>>>>> instruction in daily living skills because my parents didn't feel
>>>>>>>> confident enough to teach me a lot of things themselves at home. I
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> think the center gave me a lot of confidence even if I did have
>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>> and even though I know how to learn things on my own.
>>>>>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, so
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two mornings a
>>>>>>>> week
>>>>>>>> so it didn't interfere with classes, but it really helped my resume.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I hadn't
>>>>>>>> gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I know some
>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>> students have a brief volunteer stint or take a college class while
>>>>>>>> they are at the center as part of their training. So it isn't just
>>>>>>>> blindness training the whole time. In addition, I had a lot of
>>>>>>>> amazing
>>>>>>>> social experiences while I was there that I probably won't have
>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>> as a working, married woman.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana Tech did
>>>>>>>> recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center graduates
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> higher employment rates and earn higher incomes than those who
>>>>>>>> attended traditional centers or no center at all. Actually, the
>>>>>>>> rates
>>>>>>>> were lower among traditional center grads than among those who
>>>>>>>> attended no center, but the rates were highest among those who
>>>>>>>> attended NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I
>>>>>>>> think the research was conducted well and with as little bias as
>>>>>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center training
>>>>>>>> actually caused the increase in employment or if people who choose
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> go to NFB centers have other attributes that make them more
>>>>>>>> employable. More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
>>>>>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
>>>>>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the unemployment
>>>>>>>> problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Bridgit,
>>>>>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught your
>>>>>>>>> sisters.
>>>>>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. I had
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>> parent middle class household. My older brothers learned a little
>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> observation. We never did have to do chores because my parents
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they did
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> chores
>>>>>>>>> ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had an ocasional party
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> guests
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers did
>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> chores.
>>>>>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and personal
>>>>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad
>>>>>>>>> describing
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride my
>>>>>>>>> bike
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> training wheels once I got that.
>>>>>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a napkin
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>>>>>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In
>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their
>>>>>>>>> parents
>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>> not expect this of them.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal skills,
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> parents
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and blue
>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic stuff
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> more advanced dressing skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster and
>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>> stressful.
>>>>>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about Jonny
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in the label. The
>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>> emphasizes this "we as blind people" thing and I know we have had
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me I
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> born
>>>>>>>>> with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I actually don't
>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>> much from when I had bits of vision and I'm not totally blind but
>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>> close.
>>>>>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they
>>>>>>>>> taught
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. Did it take
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> longer?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
>>>>>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a school
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision was
>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>> worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech skills. I also
>>>>>>>>> needed
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> learn to cook. As a college student I still fail lol.
>>>>>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high
>>>>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but my
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> school gave up. I was classified as having a visual processing
>>>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>>>> disability rather then being blind.
>>>>>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple disabled
>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to state
>>>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my public
>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never really
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we send
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> people to "schools for the blind" We as blind people live in the
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>> world,Why do we do it? You don't see mom sending Johnny who has
>>>>>>>>>> autism
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>>>> dusty
>>>>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>> 
>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>> 
>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaiti
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 18:29:14 2013
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:29:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003d01cf058d$0b3eb3e0$21bc1ba0$@gmail.com>

I have never used drop box, but email is my best friends.  Also, in the
professional world, most of your work, correspondances and reports will be
done and submitted electronically.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 12:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility stuff so
students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school for the blind,
they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the public
school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP meetings a few
times, but I got to college with experience in asking for materials in
advance, planning with teachers, and communicating with teachers and my
braillist to get the materials done.  I think what happens to a lot of
students who go to schools for the blind is that they're so used to having
their materials just handed to them without accessibility issues, so when
they get to college they think they are entitled to those materials without
asking for them.

I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues when
she got to college because she refused to do any work that was not given to
her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in alternative formats
these days, I'm sure most college students on here can imagine how much work
was missed.  Expecting everything to be in braille once you leave a school
for the blind is not realistic, and if that is what schools for the blind
are doing they're actually doing a great disservice to their students.  I am
all for them teaching braille literacy, but submitting electronic
assignments and using the computer to get your work done is just part of the
college experience for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.

For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way through
my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from my high school
teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of getting everything from
them.  This involved checking in with each one of them every week to see
what we were doing in the next week.  Tests needed even more preplanning.  I
was responsible for delivering all work that needed to be transcribed to my
braillist on my lunch breaks or before I left the building at the end of the
day.  Most of the time she gave me braille because that was what she was
used to doing, (I had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and
braillist, and from 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She
was in a habit of brailling everything because that was how we did it from
4th to about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot
though, I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments electronically, and
got feedback on my work electronically as well.  Email, dropbox, and
flashdrives will be your best friends in college, and they'll be even easier
to work with if you get used to submitting assignments in that way early on
while in high school.  Develop those self-advocacy skills; they will serve
you well.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good evening, Jedi,
>
>          Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
> for today, Car
>
> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a 
>>greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters outside 
>>of the country.
>>
>>Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go to 
>>a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the 
>>resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I took 
>>a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness skills 
>>were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable 
>>improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we 
>>don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in the 
>>competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training center 
>>for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make someone 
>>successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many people waste 
>>their time during training, including those I train in the itinerant 
>>system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that training has 
>>something to offer anyone who fully engages in the enterprise as my 
>>own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of what resources you 
>>have and the resources you bring to blindness that make a difference.
>>
>>As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one 
>>could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that being 
>>in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the real 
>>world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind you that 
>>we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and that we all 
>>experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with other blind 
>>people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of privilege 
>>afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing because then we 
>>know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences of 
>>blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither 
>>experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is superior 
>>to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she or he is 
>>going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>Jedi
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining 
>> > about having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I 
>> > live here and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you 
>> > there are no such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, 
>> > ha ha ha, "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a 
>> > couple of dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed 
>> > down yet. In this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide 
>> > dog bashing. I remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with 
>> > her cane because some people in her area found it funny to spit on 
>> > her. I've never been to America although I have read about the 
>> > extraordinary work The NFB does. If I had access to even half the 
>> > things you are moaning about, I would be extatic! I could go on 
>> > about The NLS and how people this side of the world aren't 
>> > permitted access to web Braille, let alone the hard copy Braille 
>> > books available but I won't. I could also talk about how Braille 
>> > transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and live here
for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>> >
>> > Very best wishes,
>> > Sandra.
>> >
>> >> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>> >> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be 
>> >> going to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center 
>> >> to learn some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend 
>> >> this center so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for
college.
>> >> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, 
>> >> but it is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for 
>> >> out of state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was 
>> >> mainstreamed through my Junior year of High School then attended 
>> >> the school for the blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like 
>> >> mainstreaming a lot better.  I feel the education I received in 
>> >> public school was better than what I received at ISVI.  I wish I 
>> >> had learned algebra while at ISVI because I would have gotten my 
>> >> associates degree a lot quicker and not have had to take so many 
>> >> remedial math classes.  Like others have already stated, it is up to
the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>> >> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the 
>> >> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
>> >> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to 
>> >> me kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
>> >> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever 
>> >> they may be worth.
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Minh,
>> >>>
>> >>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised 
>> >>> with opportunities to build confidence.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle 
>> >>> brought up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the 
>> >>> right to an informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training 
>> >>> center, Al Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success 
>> >>> measure is whether a graduate obtains employment or starts school 
>> >>> within a year of graduating from training. There are flaws to 
>> >>> this. For example, I think one year is a long time, and who says 
>> >>> employment obtained is the desired job. Plus, many people go 
>> >>> blind as older adults, so one may attend a training center for 
>> >>> more daily living skills and decide later that they don't want to 
>> >>> work anymore. But it is a quantafiable measure. I think that the 
>> >>> NFB training centers have success rates according to these  
>> >>> measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the state training 
>> >>> enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>> >>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>> >>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, 
>> >>> and not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you 
>> >>> from society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to 
>> >>> class takes up time and working a job takes time, going to 
>> >>> training during the day does take time. And there are some field 
>> >>> trips that were all day or overnight, but school and work have 
>> >>> these requirements as well. I made friends outside the center, 
>> >>> volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I did not choose to work 
>> >>> or do an internship during training, but I realize that could 
>> >>> have provided another great experience. Once I wasn't in class, 
>> >>> my time was mine. I happened to make friends with center students 
>> >>> just as you would make friends with neighbors and classmates. I 
>> >>> didn't hang out because they were blind or because someone told 
>> >>> me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted people I 
>> >>> met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool people.
>> >>>
>> >>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For 
>> >>> example, your life outside of class does give you opportunities 
>> >>> to practice your skills and you are expected to use your 
>> >>> nonvisual techniques at home and in the community. However, I 
>> >>> don't think that this experiential part of training meant that my 
>> >>> time outside of class wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that 
>> >>> I was not "removed" from society.
>> >>>
>> >>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original 
>> >>> topic, but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several 
>> >>> naysayers and people make fun of me for going to training because 
>> >>> they perceived it as a time when I would be removing myself from 
>> >>> society. But it was just the opposite. It has allowed me to take 
>> >>> more advantage of what society has to offer. Someone who already 
>> >>> possesses these skills and confidence could then perceive this as 
>> >>> unnecessary, but I realized that I needed the opportunity to be
successful.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Arielle,
>> >>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for 
>> >>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Min,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience 
>> >>>>> is the best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers 
>> >>>>> do is to provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us 
>> >>>>> who were sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things 
>> >>>>> out, much less learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For 
>> >>>>> example, one thing I did for the first time at LCB was light 
>> >>>>> candles. I had never been allowed to do anything with matches 
>> >>>>> before I went to LCB. My teacher at LCB taught me a few tricks 
>> >>>>> but mostly it was just me being required to swallow my fear and 
>> >>>>> strike a match and put it to the candle.
>> >>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle 
>> >>>>> was lit and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did 
>> >>>>> have decent skills before coming to the center and I think I 
>> >>>>> probably could have been reasonably successful without center 
>> >>>>> training. But I had specialized blindness training at the 
>> >>>>> preschool and in-home instruction in daily living skills 
>> >>>>> because my parents didn't feel confident enough to teach me a 
>> >>>>> lot of things themselves at home. I do think the center gave me 
>> >>>>> a lot of confidence even if I did have skills and even though I 
>> >>>>> know how to learn things on my own.
>> >>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, 
>> >>>>> so I don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two 
>> >>>>> mornings a week so it didn't interfere with classes, but it 
>> >>>>> really helped my resume.
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I 
>> >>>>> hadn't gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I 
>> >>>>> know some center students have a brief volunteer stint or take 
>> >>>>> a college class while they are at the center as part of their 
>> >>>>> training. So it isn't just blindness training the whole time. 
>> >>>>> In addition, I had a lot of amazing social experiences while I 
>> >>>>> was there that I probably won't have again as a working, 
>> >>>>> married woman.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most 
>> >>>>> of the evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana 
>> >>>>> Tech did recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center 
>> >>>>> graduates have higher employment rates and earn higher incomes 
>> >>>>> than those who attended traditional centers or no center at 
>> >>>>> all. Actually, the rates were lower among traditional center 
>> >>>>> grads than among those who attended no center, but the rates 
>> >>>>> were highest among those who attended NFB centers. I have read 
>> >>>>> his paper and as a researcher I think the research was 
>> >>>>> conducted well and with as little bias as possible. However, it 
>> >>>>> is impossible to tell if the center training actually caused 
>> >>>>> the increase in employment or if people who choose to go to NFB 
>> >>>>> centers have other attributes that make them more employable. 
>> >>>>> More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore, 
>> >>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center 
>> >>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the 
>> >>>>> unemployment problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best,
>> >>>>> Arielle
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Bridgit,
>> >>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught 
>> >>>>>> your sisters.
>> >>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. 
>> >>>>>> I had  a two parent middle class household. My older brothers 
>> >>>>>> learned a little bit by observation. We never did have to do 
>> >>>>>> chores because my parents would rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they 
>> >>>>>> did do chores ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had 
>> >>>>>> an ocasional party or guests
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers 
>> >>>>>> did help in chores.
>> >>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and 
>> >>>>>> personal care.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad 
>> >>>>>> describing what
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride 
>> >>>>>> my bike with training wheels once I got that.
>> >>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a 
>> >>>>>> napkin in your lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>> >>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In 
>> >>>>>> fact, I've met
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their 
>> >>>>>> parents did not expect this of them.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal 
>> >>>>>> skills, my parents
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and 
>> >>>>>> blue did not go
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic 
>> >>>>>> stuff but other more advanced dressing skills were taught by 
>> >>>>>> my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster 
>> >>>>>> and less stressful.
>> >>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ashley
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about 
>> >>>>>> Jonny who has autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in 
>> >>>>>> the label. The thread emphasizes this "we as blind people" 
>> >>>>>> thing and I know we have had this talk
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me 
>> >>>>>> I was born with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I 
>> >>>>>> actually don't remember much from when I had bits of vision 
>> >>>>>> and I'm not totally blind but pretty close.
>> >>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they 
>> >>>>>> taught my sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. 
>> >>>>>> Did it take me longer?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
>> >>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a 
>> >>>>>> school for the blind.
>> >>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision 
>> >>>>>> was getting worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech 
>> >>>>>> skills. I also needed to learn to cook. As a college student I 
>> >>>>>> still fail lol.
>> >>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high 
>> >>>>>> school.
>> >>>>>> That
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but 
>> >>>>>> my public school gave up. I was classified as having a visual 
>> >>>>>> processing learning disability rather then being blind.
>> >>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple 
>> >>>>>> disabled students is
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to 
>> >>>>>> state standards.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my 
>> >>>>>> public school and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never 
>> >>>>>> really really left.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>> >>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we 
>> >>>>>>> send blind people to "schools for the blind" We as blind 
>> >>>>>>> people live in the real world,Why do we do it? You don't see 
>> >>>>>>> mom sending Johnny who has autism to
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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>> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%
>> 40aol.com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>>
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>> thlink.net
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>>>> nabs-l:
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>> .com
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>> nabs-l:
>> >>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmai
>> l.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the 
>> >>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it 
>> >>>> was vanity:
>> >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act 
>> >>>> on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. 
>> >>>> Lawrence
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gm
>> >>>> ail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> >>>
>> >>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> >>> for
>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gma
>> >>> il.com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> nabs-l:
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>> ail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Soprano Singer
>> > www.sandragayer.com
>> >
>> > Broadcast Presenter
>> >
>> > www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
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--
Kaiti

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From jhud7789 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 19:01:27 2013
From: jhud7789 at gmail.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:01:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>

Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages or the notes app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and if it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And you will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a lecture, meeting, seminar, etc. 
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 30 19:15:48 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <003d01cf058d$0b3eb3e0$21bc1ba0$@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <BLU172-DS99D7A5A3F5E585DB647A9F5CE0@phx.gbl>

Yeah, that is definitely true. But I think that even though we learn how to 
use computers or even other type of technology, whe should never forget how 
to read Braille. And I think if colleges or universities have the 
opportunity in providing Braille to an student, only if the student ask for 
it, they shouldn't denied it, and give excuses about it that they can't do 
it, specially if they have a Braille embosser. And giving excuses in saying 
that cost a lot of money to provide you with Braille!, I think it's not 
right at all. In fact, I actually learned Braille when I was 16 years old, 
due to the fact that I lost my sight at that age, during my high school 
years. And actually Braille was my first learning method, before even 
learning how to use a computer or technology. As a matter of fact, I just 
learn how to use the computer and other type of tecknology two years ago! 
Thanks so much for listening to me, and God bless!! :)
P.s. By the way, does anyone know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I 
actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app into 
my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they give me 
a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it be 
possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how could I 
start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on 
there? I will really appreciate it a lot. Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: justin williams
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 1:29 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

I have never used drop box, but email is my best friends.  Also, in the
professional world, most of your work, correspondances and reports will be
done and submitted electronically.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 12:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility stuff so
students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school for the blind,
they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the public
school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP meetings a few
times, but I got to college with experience in asking for materials in
advance, planning with teachers, and communicating with teachers and my
braillist to get the materials done.  I think what happens to a lot of
students who go to schools for the blind is that they're so used to having
their materials just handed to them without accessibility issues, so when
they get to college they think they are entitled to those materials without
asking for them.

I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues when
she got to college because she refused to do any work that was not given to
her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in alternative formats
these days, I'm sure most college students on here can imagine how much work
was missed.  Expecting everything to be in braille once you leave a school
for the blind is not realistic, and if that is what schools for the blind
are doing they're actually doing a great disservice to their students.  I am
all for them teaching braille literacy, but submitting electronic
assignments and using the computer to get your work done is just part of the
college experience for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.

For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way through
my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from my high school
teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of getting everything from
them.  This involved checking in with each one of them every week to see
what we were doing in the next week.  Tests needed even more preplanning.  I
was responsible for delivering all work that needed to be transcribed to my
braillist on my lunch breaks or before I left the building at the end of the
day.  Most of the time she gave me braille because that was what she was
used to doing, (I had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and
braillist, and from 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She
was in a habit of brailling everything because that was how we did it from
4th to about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot
though, I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments electronically, and
got feedback on my work electronically as well.  Email, dropbox, and
flashdrives will be your best friends in college, and they'll be even easier
to work with if you get used to submitting assignments in that way early on
while in high school.  Develop those self-advocacy skills; they will serve
you well.

On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good evening, Jedi,
>
>          Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
> for today, Car
>
> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a
>>greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters outside
>>of the country.
>>
>>Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go to
>>a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the
>>resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I took
>>a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness skills
>>were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable
>>improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we
>>don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in the
>>competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training center
>>for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make someone
>>successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many people waste
>>their time during training, including those I train in the itinerant
>>system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that training has
>>something to offer anyone who fully engages in the enterprise as my
>>own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of what resources you
>>have and the resources you bring to blindness that make a difference.
>>
>>As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one
>>could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that being
>>in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the real
>>world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind you that
>>we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and that we all
>>experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with other blind
>>people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of privilege
>>afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing because then we
>>know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences of
>>blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither
>>experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is superior
>>to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she or he is
>>going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>Jedi
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining
>> > about having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I
>> > live here and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you
>> > there are no such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or,
>> > ha ha ha, "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a
>> > couple of dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed
>> > down yet. In this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide
>> > dog bashing. I remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with
>> > her cane because some people in her area found it funny to spit on
>> > her. I've never been to America although I have read about the
>> > extraordinary work The NFB does. If I had access to even half the
>> > things you are moaning about, I would be extatic! I could go on
>> > about The NLS and how people this side of the world aren't
>> > permitted access to web Braille, let alone the hard copy Braille
>> > books available but I won't. I could also talk about how Braille
>> > transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and live here
for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>> >
>> > Very best wishes,
>> > Sandra.
>> >
>> >> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>> >> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be
>> >> going to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center
>> >> to learn some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend
>> >> this center so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for
college.
>> >> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center,
>> >> but it is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for
>> >> out of state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was
>> >> mainstreamed through my Junior year of High School then attended
>> >> the school for the blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like
>> >> mainstreaming a lot better.  I feel the education I received in
>> >> public school was better than what I received at ISVI.  I wish I
>> >> had learned algebra while at ISVI because I would have gotten my
>> >> associates degree a lot quicker and not have had to take so many
>> >> remedial math classes.  Like others have already stated, it is up to
the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>> >> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
>> >> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost them.
>> >> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to
>> >> me kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
>> >> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
>> >> they may be worth.
>> >>
>> >>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Minh,
>> >>>
>> >>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised
>> >>> with opportunities to build confidence.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle
>> >>> brought up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the
>> >>> right to an informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training
>> >>> center, Al Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success
>> >>> measure is whether a graduate obtains employment or starts school
>> >>> within a year of graduating from training. There are flaws to
>> >>> this. For example, I think one year is a long time, and who says
>> >>> employment obtained is the desired job. Plus, many people go
>> >>> blind as older adults, so one may attend a training center for
>> >>> more daily living skills and decide later that they don't want to
>> >>> work anymore. But it is a quantafiable measure. I think that the
>> >>> NFB training centers have success rates according to these
>> >>> measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the state training
>> >>> enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>> >>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>> >>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on,
>> >>> and not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you
>> >>> from society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to
>> >>> class takes up time and working a job takes time, going to
>> >>> training during the day does take time. And there are some field
>> >>> trips that were all day or overnight, but school and work have
>> >>> these requirements as well. I made friends outside the center,
>> >>> volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I did not choose to work
>> >>> or do an internship during training, but I realize that could
>> >>> have provided another great experience. Once I wasn't in class,
>> >>> my time was mine. I happened to make friends with center students
>> >>> just as you would make friends with neighbors and classmates. I
>> >>> didn't hang out because they were blind or because someone told
>> >>> me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other sighted people I
>> >>> met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool people.
>> >>>
>> >>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For
>> >>> example, your life outside of class does give you opportunities
>> >>> to practice your skills and you are expected to use your
>> >>> nonvisual techniques at home and in the community. However, I
>> >>> don't think that this experiential part of training meant that my
>> >>> time outside of class wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that
>> >>> I was not "removed" from society.
>> >>>
>> >>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original
>> >>> topic, but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several
>> >>> naysayers and people make fun of me for going to training because
>> >>> they perceived it as a time when I would be removing myself from
>> >>> society. But it was just the opposite. It has allowed me to take
>> >>> more advantage of what society has to offer. Someone who already
>> >>> possesses these skills and confidence could then perceive this as
>> >>> unnecessary, but I realized that I needed the opportunity to be
successful.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cindy
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Arielle,
>> >>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
>> >>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi Min,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience
>> >>>>> is the best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers
>> >>>>> do is to provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us
>> >>>>> who were sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things
>> >>>>> out, much less learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For
>> >>>>> example, one thing I did for the first time at LCB was light
>> >>>>> candles. I had never been allowed to do anything with matches
>> >>>>> before I went to LCB. My teacher at LCB taught me a few tricks
>> >>>>> but mostly it was just me being required to swallow my fear and
>> >>>>> strike a match and put it to the candle.
>> >>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle
>> >>>>> was lit and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did
>> >>>>> have decent skills before coming to the center and I think I
>> >>>>> probably could have been reasonably successful without center
>> >>>>> training. But I had specialized blindness training at the
>> >>>>> preschool and in-home instruction in daily living skills
>> >>>>> because my parents didn't feel confident enough to teach me a
>> >>>>> lot of things themselves at home. I do think the center gave me
>> >>>>> a lot of confidence even if I did have skills and even though I
>> >>>>> know how to learn things on my own.
>> >>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship,
>> >>>>> so I don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two
>> >>>>> mornings a week so it didn't interfere with classes, but it
>> >>>>> really helped my resume.
>> >>>>> I
>> >>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I
>> >>>>> hadn't gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I
>> >>>>> know some center students have a brief volunteer stint or take
>> >>>>> a college class while they are at the center as part of their
>> >>>>> training. So it isn't just blindness training the whole time.
>> >>>>> In addition, I had a lot of amazing social experiences while I
>> >>>>> was there that I probably won't have again as a working,
>> >>>>> married woman.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most
>> >>>>> of the evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana
>> >>>>> Tech did recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center
>> >>>>> graduates have higher employment rates and earn higher incomes
>> >>>>> than those who attended traditional centers or no center at
>> >>>>> all. Actually, the rates were lower among traditional center
>> >>>>> grads than among those who attended no center, but the rates
>> >>>>> were highest among those who attended NFB centers. I have read
>> >>>>> his paper and as a researcher I think the research was
>> >>>>> conducted well and with as little bias as possible. However, it
>> >>>>> is impossible to tell if the center training actually caused
>> >>>>> the increase in employment or if people who choose to go to NFB
>> >>>>> centers have other attributes that make them more employable.
>> >>>>> More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
>> >>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
>> >>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the
>> >>>>> unemployment problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best,
>> >>>>> Arielle
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Bridgit,
>> >>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught
>> >>>>>> your sisters.
>> >>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite.
>> >>>>>> I had  a two parent middle class household. My older brothers
>> >>>>>> learned a little bit by observation. We never did have to do
>> >>>>>> chores because my parents would rather
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they
>> >>>>>> did do chores ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had
>> >>>>>> an ocasional party or guests
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers
>> >>>>>> did help in chores.
>> >>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and
>> >>>>>> personal care.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>> >>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad
>> >>>>>> describing what
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride
>> >>>>>> my bike with training wheels once I got that.
>> >>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a
>> >>>>>> napkin in your lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>> >>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In
>> >>>>>> fact, I've met
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their
>> >>>>>> parents did not expect this of them.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal
>> >>>>>> skills, my parents
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and
>> >>>>>> blue did not go
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic
>> >>>>>> stuff but other more advanced dressing skills were taught by
>> >>>>>> my vision teacher.
>> >>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster
>> >>>>>> and less stressful.
>> >>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Ashley
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about
>> >>>>>> Jonny who has autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in
>> >>>>>> the label. The thread emphasizes this "we as blind people"
>> >>>>>> thing and I know we have had this talk
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me
>> >>>>>> I was born with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I
>> >>>>>> actually don't remember much from when I had bits of vision
>> >>>>>> and I'm not totally blind but pretty close.
>> >>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they
>> >>>>>> taught my sisters who are sighted and I understood everything.
>> >>>>>> Did it take me longer?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything different.
>> >>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a
>> >>>>>> school for the blind.
>> >>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision
>> >>>>>> was getting worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech
>> >>>>>> skills. I also needed to learn to cook. As a college student I
>> >>>>>> still fail lol.
>> >>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high
>> >>>>>> school.
>> >>>>>> That
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but
>> >>>>>> my public school gave up. I was classified as having a visual
>> >>>>>> processing learning disability rather then being blind.
>> >>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple
>> >>>>>> disabled students is
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to
>> >>>>>> state standards.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my
>> >>>>>> public school and
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never
>> >>>>>> really really left.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>> >>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we
>> >>>>>>> send blind people to "schools for the blind" We as blind
>> >>>>>>> people live in the real world,Why do we do it? You don't see
>> >>>>>>> mom sending Johnny who has autism to
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>> >>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it
>> >>>> was vanity:
>> >>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act
>> >>>> on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E.
>> >>>> Lawrence
>> >>>>
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Cindy Bennett
>> >>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>> >>>
>> >>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> >>>
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From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 19:19:23 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:19:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <2F6FD4EF-8E07-44E9-A346-237A07C06E71@fuse.net>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>
	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>
	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2F6FD4EF-8E07-44E9-A346-237A07C06E71@fuse.net>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nQq0T-3t1Nbnth7c1LWQjNZwJ-Y3JCp5QjUdCVF+WM7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

When I was in high school, I held a meeting with all of my teachers,
my TVI and braillist (who happened to be identical twins, but that's
beside the point) during which I made all of the teachers aware of the
accomidations I would need.  I had devised, in writing, an
accomidations agreement (for lack of a better term; I cannot for the
life of me recollect what I actually called it).  In it, I outlined my
responsibilities, those of my teachers and those of my TVI and
braillist.  Also outlined in the document were the expectations each
party had of the other.  For example, if the teacher turned in an
assignment to either me or my braillist a minimum of three days prior
to the time the assignment would be presented in class, then I was
expected to have the assignment turned in on time with everyone else.
However, if the teacher was delinquent in giving the matterial to me
or the braillist to be prepared and it was not ready on time for
class, then I would get an extension.  Each teacher, my braillist, my
TVI and I had a copy of this document and all of us signed it.  It was
a contract that we would each hold our ends of the bargain, if you
will.I had had far too many problems in middle school with matterials
not being prepared in a timely fashion and this document was my
solution.  There also was a lovely little Powerpoint that went with
the document which I showed during the pre-schoolyear meeting.

Regarding the discussion about schools for the blind, I agree with
Kaiti that they are not the "real" world.  They are much like training
centers.  Everything is handed to the student on a silver platter and,
though they make an effort to teach independence and self-advocacy
skills, it is in a sheltered and controled environment where those
skills are not necessarily applicable.  Once the blind school grads
get out into the "real" world of jobs or college, like Kaiti said, it
becomes a rather cultural shock for them when they discover they
actually have to work to get what they need.  Personally, I feel that,
if the training centers and schools for the blind are trying to teach
these self-advocacy and independence skills, they should do their very
best to immitate the real world so that their students are truly
prepared when they come out.

The other issue is that, for a lot of these blind schools and training
centers (moreso the schools), their cliontele often are people with
other disabilities in addition to their blindness (e.g. severe autism
or other severe cognative disabilities), so preparing them for the
"real" world becomes a bit more difficult.  When the get a student who
is, as they would describe it "high functioning", that person tends to
be treated similarly to those who are not as high functioning.  Thus,
the student leaves the school less prepared to deal with the
challenges presented by the "real" world than they would be if they
were either main-streamed or allowed to reach their full potential.
That is a somewhat harsh assessment, I know, but I feel that it is
something that needs to be said.  The methods I mentioned above which
I used in high school were a great preparational tool for me when I
got to college and I believe that the schools for the blind should
teach strategies like that with their students as well as employ them
so that their students are better prepared.

Ryan

On 12/30/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> What I personally do is have my teachers email or drop box. Most
> assignments. Heck, one teacher gave me a flash drive with most of the
> assignments for the year. Of course this took meetings and discussions of
> what each teacher is comfortable with.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility
>> stuff so students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school
>> for the blind, they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
>> I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the
>> public school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP
>> meetings a few times, but I got to college with experience in asking
>> for materials in advance, planning with teachers, and communicating
>> with teachers and my braillist to get the materials done.  I think
>> what happens to a lot of students who go to schools for the blind is
>> that they're so used to having their materials just handed to them
>> without accessibility issues, so when they get to college they think
>> they are entitled to those materials without asking for them.
>>
>> I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues
>> when she got to college because she refused to do any work that was
>> not given to her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in
>> alternative formats these days, I'm sure most college students on here
>> can imagine how much work was missed.  Expecting everything to be in
>> braille once you leave a school for the blind is not realistic, and if
>> that is what schools for the blind are doing they're actually doing a
>> great disservice to their students.  I am all for them teaching
>> braille literacy, but submitting electronic assignments and using the
>> computer to get your work done is just part of the college experience
>> for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.
>>
>> For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way
>> through my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from
>> my high school teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of
>> getting everything from them.  This involved checking in with each one
>> of them every week to see what we were doing in the next week.  Tests
>> needed even more preplanning.  I was responsible for delivering all
>> work that needed to be transcribed to my braillist on my lunch breaks
>> or before I left the building at the end of the day.  Most of the time
>> she gave me braille because that was what she was used to doing, (I
>> had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and braillist, and from
>> 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She was in a habit
>> of brailling everything because that was how we did it from 4th to
>> about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot though,
>> I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments electronically, and got
>> feedback on my work electronically as well.  Email, dropbox, and
>> flashdrives will be your best friends in college, and they'll be even
>> easier to work with if you get used to submitting assignments in that
>> way early on while in high school.  Develop those self-advocacy
>> skills; they will serve you well.
>>
>>> On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Good evening, Jedi,
>>>
>>>         Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
>>> for today, Car
>>>
>>> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>>> I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a
>>>> greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters
>>>> outside of the country.
>>>>
>>>> Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go
>>>> to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the
>>>> resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>>> Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I
>>>> took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness
>>>> skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made considerable
>>>> improvement while there. The problem is that we don't know what we
>>>> don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a blind person in
>>>> the competitive market. I give credit to myself and the training
>>>> center for my success. A training center by itself doesn't make
>>>> someone successful in the areas of daily living. I have seen many
>>>> people waste their time during training, including those I train in
>>>> the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is foolish.  I know that
>>>> training has something to offer anyone who fully engages in the
>>>> enterprise as my own story shows. So I really think it's a matter of
>>>> what resources you have and the resources you bring to blindness
>>>> that make a difference.
>>>>
>>>> As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one
>>>> could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>>> But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that
>>>> being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the
>>>> real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind
>>>> you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and
>>>> that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with
>>>> other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of
>>>> privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing
>>>> because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>>> Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences
>>>> of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither
>>>> experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is
>>>> superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if she
>>>> or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining about
>>>>> having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I live here
>>>>> and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise you there are no
>>>>> such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind Preschool" or, ha ha ha,
>>>>> "Training Centres" for the blind, unless you count a couple of
>>>>> dedicated schools for the blind which haven't been closed down yet. In
>>>>> this country, there are gangs who specialise in guide dog bashing. I
>>>>> remember a girl who wouldn't leave the house with her cane because
>>>>> some people in her area found it funny to spit on her. I've never been
>>>>> to America although I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB
>>>>> does. If I had access to even half the things you are moaning about, I
>>>>> would be extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side
>>>>> of the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the
>>>>> hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk about
>>>>> how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page. Come and
>>>>> live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>>>>>> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be going
>>>>>> to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center to learn
>>>>>> some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to attend this center
>>>>>> so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for college.
>>>>>> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, but
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for out of
>>>>>> state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was mainstreamed
>>>>>> through my Junior year of High School then attended the school for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like mainstreaming a lot better.  I
>>>>>> feel the education I received in public school was better than what I
>>>>>> received at ISVI.  I wish I had learned algebra while at ISVI because
>>>>>> I would have gotten my associates degree a lot quicker and not have
>>>>>> had to take so many remedial math classes.  Like others have already
>>>>>> stated, it is up to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>>>>>> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for the
>>>>>> blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I lost
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which to me
>>>>>> kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to cook.
>>>>>> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for whatever
>>>>>> they may be worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Minh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> opportunities to build confidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle
>>>>>>> brought
>>>>>>> up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the right to an
>>>>>>> informed choice and to go to an out-of-state training center, Al
>>>>>>> Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one success measure is whether
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> graduate obtains employment or starts school within a year of
>>>>>>> graduating from training. There are flaws to this. For example, I
>>>>>>> think one year is a long time, and who says employment obtained is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> desired job. Plus, many people go blind as older adults, so one may
>>>>>>> attend a training center for more daily living skills and decide
>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>> that they don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable
>>>>>>> measure. I think that the NFB training centers have success rates
>>>>>>> according to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the
>>>>>>> state training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>>>>>>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, and
>>>>>>> not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you from
>>>>>>> society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to class
>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>> up time and working a job takes time, going to training during the
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> does take time. And there are some field trips that were all day or
>>>>>>> overnight, but school and work have these requirements as well. I
>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>> friends outside the center, volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I
>>>>>>> did not choose to work or do an internship during training, but I
>>>>>>> realize that could have provided another great experience. Once I
>>>>>>> wasn't in class, my time was mine. I happened to make friends with
>>>>>>> center students just as you would make friends with neighbors and
>>>>>>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because
>>>>>>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>> people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they were cool
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For example,
>>>>>>> your life outside of class does give you opportunities to practice
>>>>>>> your skills and you are expected to use your nonvisual techniques at
>>>>>>> home and in the community. However, I don't think that this
>>>>>>> experiential part of training meant that my time outside of class
>>>>>>> wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel that I was not "removed" from
>>>>>>> society.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original
>>>>>>> topic,
>>>>>>> but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several naysayers
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> people make fun of me for going to training because they perceived
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> as a time when I would be removing myself from society. But it was
>>>>>>> just the opposite. It has allowed me to take more advantage of what
>>>>>>> society has to offer. Someone who already possesses these skills and
>>>>>>> confidence could then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized
>>>>>>> that I needed the opportunity to be successful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for
>>>>>>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Min,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience is
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers do is to
>>>>>>>>> provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us who were
>>>>>>>>> sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things out, much less
>>>>>>>>> learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For example, one thing
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> did for the first time at LCB was light candles. I had never been
>>>>>>>>> allowed to do anything with matches before I went to LCB. My
>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>> at LCB taught me a few tricks but mostly it was just me being
>>>>>>>>> required
>>>>>>>>> to swallow my fear and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>>>>>>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle was
>>>>>>>>> lit
>>>>>>>>> and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did have decent
>>>>>>>>> skills before coming to the center and I think I probably could
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> been reasonably successful without center training. But I had
>>>>>>>>> specialized blindness training at the preschool and in-home
>>>>>>>>> instruction in daily living skills because my parents didn't feel
>>>>>>>>> confident enough to teach me a lot of things themselves at home. I
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> think the center gave me a lot of confidence even if I did have
>>>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>>>> and even though I know how to learn things on my own.
>>>>>>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research internship, so
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was just two mornings a
>>>>>>>>> week
>>>>>>>>> so it didn't interfere with classes, but it really helped my
>>>>>>>>> resume.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I hadn't
>>>>>>>>> gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I know some
>>>>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>>> students have a brief volunteer stint or take a college class
>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>> they are at the center as part of their training. So it isn't just
>>>>>>>>> blindness training the whole time. In addition, I had a lot of
>>>>>>>>> amazing
>>>>>>>>> social experiences while I was there that I probably won't have
>>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>>> as a working, married woman.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think most of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at Louisiana Tech did
>>>>>>>>> recently conduct a study which showed that NFB center graduates
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> higher employment rates and earn higher incomes than those who
>>>>>>>>> attended traditional centers or no center at all. Actually, the
>>>>>>>>> rates
>>>>>>>>> were lower among traditional center grads than among those who
>>>>>>>>> attended no center, but the rates were highest among those who
>>>>>>>>> attended NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I
>>>>>>>>> think the research was conducted well and with as little bias as
>>>>>>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center training
>>>>>>>>> actually caused the increase in employment or if people who choose
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> go to NFB centers have other attributes that make them more
>>>>>>>>> employable. More rigorous research has to be done. Furthermore,
>>>>>>>>> unemployment was still pretty high even among the NFB center
>>>>>>>>> graduates, so NFB training doesn't completely fix the unemployment
>>>>>>>>> problem. But it's a step in the right direction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bridgit,
>>>>>>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught your
>>>>>>>>>> sisters.
>>>>>>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. I
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>> parent middle class household. My older brothers learned a little
>>>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> observation. We never did have to do chores because my parents
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they did
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> chores
>>>>>>>>>> ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had an ocasional party
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> guests
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers did
>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> chores.
>>>>>>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and personal
>>>>>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad
>>>>>>>>>> describing
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride my
>>>>>>>>>> bike
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> training wheels once I got that.
>>>>>>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a napkin
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>>>>>>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In
>>>>>>>>>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their
>>>>>>>>>> parents
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> not expect this of them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal skills,
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> parents
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and blue
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic stuff
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> more advanced dressing skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster and
>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>>> stressful.
>>>>>>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about Jonny
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference in the label. The
>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>> emphasizes this "we as blind people" thing and I know we have had
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just me I
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> born
>>>>>>>>>> with sight  but lost it very early on in life. I actually don't
>>>>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>>>>> much from when I had bits of vision and I'm not totally blind but
>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>>> close.
>>>>>>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they
>>>>>>>>>> taught
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> sisters who are sighted and I understood everything. Did it take
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> longer?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything
>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a school
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision was
>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>> worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech skills. I also
>>>>>>>>>> needed
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> learn to cook. As a college student I still fail lol.
>>>>>>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of high
>>>>>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  but my
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> school gave up. I was classified as having a visual processing
>>>>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>>>>> disability rather then being blind.
>>>>>>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple disabled
>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to state
>>>>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my public
>>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>>>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we send
>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people to "schools for the blind" We as blind people live in the
>>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>>> world,Why do we do it? You don't see mom sending Johnny who has
>>>>>>>>>>> autism
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker13%40aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>>>>>> dusty
>>>>>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>>>>>>>> vanity:
>>>>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>>>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From mikgephart at icloud.com  Mon Dec 30 19:22:22 2013
From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:22:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D419764-31CB-4AF3-A92C-464FA91DFF20@icloud.com>

Voice Memos is great.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages or the notes app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and if it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And you will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
> 
> Joseph Hudson
> Email
> jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a lecture, meeting, seminar, etc. 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 19:46:03 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 13:46:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <2D419764-31CB-4AF3-A92C-464FA91DFF20@icloud.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
	<2D419764-31CB-4AF3-A92C-464FA91DFF20@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nsuacJy9_L1rJcNzRz7vSkbOJfLO-_J7QwR5LobMhTHQ@mail.gmail.com>

What is it you are wanting to dictate?  If you want to take notes on a
lesson and would rather not type, voice memos will do just fine.  You
can listen later on and jot down notes as you see fit.  The only thing
with voice memos, as with any other recording app or separate
recording device is that you will need to get the teacher's consent
(better written than verbal, just to be on the safe side), as it is
illegal to record others without their express permission.  Using the
dictate feature on an IOS device to transcribe speech into written
text for that sort of thing would be utterly rediculous because, as
was pointed out before, Dictation will often mistype what is said,
especially if the speaker is far away and if there is any background
noise.  You'll end up getting some of the craziest notes you've ever
seen in your life.  Plus, Dictation will time out on you and you'll
have to restart it every 30 to 45 seconds, as has also been pointed
out.

If you're wanting to just dictate a quick note (a grocery list or a
note to yourself), then I would use the notes app and dictate your
quick note there.  Hope this helps.

Ryan

On 12/30/13, Mikayla Gephart <mikgephart at icloud.com> wrote:
> Voice Memos is great.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 30, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Joseph Hudson <jhud7789 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages or the
>> notes app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away
>> and if it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing.
>> And you will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
>>
>> Joseph Hudson
>> Email
>> jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would
>>> like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
>>> lecture, meeting, seminar, etc.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> (336) 988-6375
>>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From theweird1 at mediacombb.net  Mon Dec 30 20:02:59 2013
From: theweird1 at mediacombb.net (Loren Wakefield)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:02:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1nQq0T-3t1Nbnth7c1LWQjNZwJ-Y3JCp5QjUdCVF+WM7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>	<CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>	<2F6FD4EF-8E07-44E9-A346-237A07C06E71@fuse.net>
	<CAMJRi1nQq0T-3t1Nbnth7c1LWQjNZwJ-Y3JCp5QjUdCVF+WM7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f901cf059a$240ce100$6c26a300$@mediacombb.net>

 Have not seen to many differences between those who are "mainstreamed" and
those who attend schools for the blind.  They may have some different
issues.  However, when you get down to it, they seem to be no more or less
prepared to face the "real world"than any other.  Ryan, the average high
schooler is not coming up with that type of document on his or her own.  I'm
glad it worked for you.  

Loren 

 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Hi all,

When I was in high school, I held a meeting with all of my teachers, my TVI
and braillist (who happened to be identical twins, but that's beside the
point) during which I made all of the teachers aware of the accomidations I
would need.  I had devised, in writing, an accomidations agreement (for lack
of a better term; I cannot for the life of me recollect what I actually
called it).  In it, I outlined my responsibilities, those of my teachers and
those of my TVI and braillist.  Also outlined in the document were the
expectations each party had of the other.  For example, if the teacher
turned in an assignment to either me or my braillist a minimum of three days
prior to the time the assignment would be presented in class, then I was
expected to have the assignment turned in on time with everyone else.
However, if the teacher was delinquent in giving the matterial to me or the
braillist to be prepared and it was not ready on time for class, then I
would get an extension.  Each teacher, my braillist, my TVI and I had a copy
of this document and all of us signed it.  It was a contract that we would
each hold our ends of the bargain, if you will.I had had far too many
problems in middle school with matterials not being prepared in a timely
fashion and this document was my solution.  There also was a lovely little
Powerpoint that went with the document which I showed during the
pre-schoolyear meeting.

Regarding the discussion about schools for the blind, I agree with Kaiti
that they are not the "real" world.  They are much like training centers.
Everything is handed to the student on a silver platter and, though they
make an effort to teach independence and self-advocacy skills, it is in a
sheltered and controled environment where those skills are not necessarily
applicable.  Once the blind school grads get out into the "real" world of
jobs or college, like Kaiti said, it becomes a rather cultural shock for
them when they discover they actually have to work to get what they need.
Personally, I feel that, if the training centers and schools for the blind
are trying to teach these self-advocacy and independence skills, they should
do their very best to immitate the real world so that their students are
truly prepared when they come out.

The other issue is that, for a lot of these blind schools and training
centers (moreso the schools), their cliontele often are people with other
disabilities in addition to their blindness (e.g. severe autism or other
severe cognative disabilities), so preparing them for the "real" world
becomes a bit more difficult.  When the get a student who is, as they would
describe it "high functioning", that person tends to be treated similarly to
those who are not as high functioning.  Thus, the student leaves the school
less prepared to deal with the challenges presented by the "real" world than
they would be if they were either main-streamed or allowed to reach their
full potential.
That is a somewhat harsh assessment, I know, but I feel that it is something
that needs to be said.  The methods I mentioned above which I used in high
school were a great preparational tool for me when I got to college and I
believe that the schools for the blind should teach strategies like that
with their students as well as employ them so that their students are better
prepared.

Ryan

On 12/30/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> What I personally do is have my teachers email or drop box. Most 
> assignments. Heck, one teacher gave me a flash drive with most of the 
> assignments for the year. Of course this took meetings and discussions 
> of what each teacher is comfortable with.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility 
>> stuff so students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school 
>> for the blind, they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
>> I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the 
>> public school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP 
>> meetings a few times, but I got to college with experience in asking 
>> for materials in advance, planning with teachers, and communicating 
>> with teachers and my braillist to get the materials done.  I think 
>> what happens to a lot of students who go to schools for the blind is 
>> that they're so used to having their materials just handed to them 
>> without accessibility issues, so when they get to college they think 
>> they are entitled to those materials without asking for them.
>>
>> I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues 
>> when she got to college because she refused to do any work that was 
>> not given to her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in 
>> alternative formats these days, I'm sure most college students on 
>> here can imagine how much work was missed.  Expecting everything to 
>> be in braille once you leave a school for the blind is not realistic, 
>> and if that is what schools for the blind are doing they're actually 
>> doing a great disservice to their students.  I am all for them 
>> teaching braille literacy, but submitting electronic assignments and 
>> using the computer to get your work done is just part of the college 
>> experience for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.
>>
>> For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way 
>> through my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from 
>> my high school teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of 
>> getting everything from them.  This involved checking in with each 
>> one of them every week to see what we were doing in the next week.  
>> Tests needed even more preplanning.  I was responsible for delivering 
>> all work that needed to be transcribed to my braillist on my lunch 
>> breaks or before I left the building at the end of the day.  Most of 
>> the time she gave me braille because that was what she was used to 
>> doing, (I had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and braillist, 
>> and from 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She was in 
>> a habit of brailling everything because that was how we did it from 
>> 4th to about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot 
>> though, I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments 
>> electronically, and got feedback on my work electronically as well.  
>> Email, dropbox, and flashdrives will be your best friends in college, 
>> and they'll be even easier to work with if you get used to submitting 
>> assignments in that way early on while in high school.  Develop those 
>> self-advocacy skills; they will serve you well.
>>
>>> On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Good evening, Jedi,
>>>
>>>         Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
>>> for today, Car
>>>
>>> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>>> I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a 
>>>> greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters 
>>>> outside of the country.
>>>>
>>>> Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go 
>>>> to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the 
>>>> resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>>> Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I 
>>>> took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness 
>>>> skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made 
>>>> considerable improvement while there. The problem is that we don't 
>>>> know what we don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a 
>>>> blind person in the competitive market. I give credit to myself and 
>>>> the training center for my success. A training center by itself 
>>>> doesn't make someone successful in the areas of daily living. I 
>>>> have seen many people waste their time during training, including 
>>>> those I train in the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is 
>>>> foolish.  I know that training has something to offer anyone who 
>>>> fully engages in the enterprise as my own story shows. So I really 
>>>> think it's a matter of what resources you have and the resources 
>>>> you bring to blindness that make a difference.
>>>>
>>>> As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one 
>>>> could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>>> But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that 
>>>> being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the 
>>>> real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind 
>>>> you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and 
>>>> that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with 
>>>> other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of 
>>>> privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing 
>>>> because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>>> Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences 
>>>> of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither 
>>>> experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is 
>>>> superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if 
>>>> she or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining 
>>>>> about having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I 
>>>>> live here and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise 
>>>>> you there are no such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind 
>>>>> Preschool" or, ha ha ha, "Training Centres" for the blind, unless 
>>>>> you count a couple of dedicated schools for the blind which 
>>>>> haven't been closed down yet. In this country, there are gangs who 
>>>>> specialise in guide dog bashing. I remember a girl who wouldn't 
>>>>> leave the house with her cane because some people in her area 
>>>>> found it funny to spit on her. I've never been to America although 
>>>>> I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB does. If I had 
>>>>> access to even half the things you are moaning about, I would be 
>>>>> extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side of 
>>>>> the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the 
>>>>> hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk 
>>>>> about how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page.
Come and live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>>>>>> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be 
>>>>>> going to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center 
>>>>>> to learn some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to 
>>>>>> attend this center so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for
college.
>>>>>> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, 
>>>>>> but it is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for 
>>>>>> out of state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was 
>>>>>> mainstreamed through my Junior year of High School then attended 
>>>>>> the school for the blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like 
>>>>>> mainstreaming a lot better.  I feel the education I received in 
>>>>>> public school was better than what I received at ISVI.  I wish I 
>>>>>> had learned algebra while at ISVI because I would have gotten my 
>>>>>> associates degree a lot quicker and not have had to take so many 
>>>>>> remedial math classes.  Like others have already stated, it is up 
>>>>>> to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>>>>>> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for 
>>>>>> the blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I 
>>>>>> lost them.
>>>>>> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which 
>>>>>> to me kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to
cook.
>>>>>> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for 
>>>>>> whatever they may be worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Minh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised 
>>>>>>> with opportunities to build confidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle 
>>>>>>> brought up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the 
>>>>>>> right to an informed choice and to go to an out-of-state 
>>>>>>> training center, Al Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one 
>>>>>>> success measure is whether a graduate obtains employment or 
>>>>>>> starts school within a year of graduating from training. There 
>>>>>>> are flaws to this. For example, I think one year is a long time, 
>>>>>>> and who says employment obtained is the desired job. Plus, many 
>>>>>>> people go blind as older adults, so one may attend a training 
>>>>>>> center for more daily living skills and decide later that they 
>>>>>>> don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable measure. I 
>>>>>>> think that the NFB training centers have success rates according 
>>>>>>> to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the state 
>>>>>>> training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>>>>>>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, 
>>>>>>> and not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you 
>>>>>>> from society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to 
>>>>>>> class takes up time and working a job takes time, going to 
>>>>>>> training during the day does take time. And there are some field 
>>>>>>> trips that were all day or overnight, but school and work have 
>>>>>>> these requirements as well. I made friends outside the center, 
>>>>>>> volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I did not choose to work 
>>>>>>> or do an internship during training, but I realize that could 
>>>>>>> have provided another great experience. Once I wasn't in class, 
>>>>>>> my time was mine. I happened to make friends with center 
>>>>>>> students just as you would make friends with neighbors and 
>>>>>>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because 
>>>>>>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other 
>>>>>>> sighted people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they 
>>>>>>> were cool people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For 
>>>>>>> example, your life outside of class does give you opportunities 
>>>>>>> to practice your skills and you are expected to use your 
>>>>>>> nonvisual techniques at home and in the community. However, I 
>>>>>>> don't think that this experiential part of training meant that 
>>>>>>> my time outside of class wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel 
>>>>>>> that I was not "removed" from society.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original 
>>>>>>> topic, but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several 
>>>>>>> naysayers and people make fun of me for going to training 
>>>>>>> because they perceived it as a time when I would be removing 
>>>>>>> myself from society. But it was just the opposite. It has 
>>>>>>> allowed me to take more advantage of what society has to offer. 
>>>>>>> Someone who already possesses these skills and confidence could 
>>>>>>> then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized that I needed 
>>>>>>> the opportunity to be successful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for 
>>>>>>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Min,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience 
>>>>>>>>> is the best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers 
>>>>>>>>> do is to provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us 
>>>>>>>>> who were sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things 
>>>>>>>>> out, much less learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For 
>>>>>>>>> example, one thing I did for the first time at LCB was light 
>>>>>>>>> candles. I had never been allowed to do anything with matches 
>>>>>>>>> before I went to LCB. My teacher at LCB taught me a few tricks 
>>>>>>>>> but mostly it was just me being required to swallow my fear 
>>>>>>>>> and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>>>>>>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle 
>>>>>>>>> was lit and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did 
>>>>>>>>> have decent skills before coming to the center and I think I 
>>>>>>>>> probably could have been reasonably successful without center 
>>>>>>>>> training. But I had specialized blindness training at the 
>>>>>>>>> preschool and in-home instruction in daily living skills 
>>>>>>>>> because my parents didn't feel confident enough to teach me a 
>>>>>>>>> lot of things themselves at home. I do think the center gave 
>>>>>>>>> me a lot of confidence even if I did have skills and even 
>>>>>>>>> though I know how to learn things on my own.
>>>>>>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research 
>>>>>>>>> internship, so I don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was 
>>>>>>>>> just two mornings a week so it didn't interfere with classes, 
>>>>>>>>> but it really helped my resume.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I 
>>>>>>>>> hadn't gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I 
>>>>>>>>> know some center students have a brief volunteer stint or take 
>>>>>>>>> a college class while they are at the center as part of their 
>>>>>>>>> training. So it isn't just blindness training the whole time. 
>>>>>>>>> In addition, I had a lot of amazing social experiences while I 
>>>>>>>>> was there that I probably won't have again as a working, 
>>>>>>>>> married woman.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think 
>>>>>>>>> most of the evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at 
>>>>>>>>> Louisiana Tech did recently conduct a study which showed that 
>>>>>>>>> NFB center graduates have higher employment rates and earn 
>>>>>>>>> higher incomes than those who attended traditional centers or 
>>>>>>>>> no center at all. Actually, the rates were lower among 
>>>>>>>>> traditional center grads than among those who attended no 
>>>>>>>>> center, but the rates were highest among those who attended 
>>>>>>>>> NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I think 
>>>>>>>>> the research was conducted well and with as little bias as 
>>>>>>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center 
>>>>>>>>> training actually caused the increase in employment or if 
>>>>>>>>> people who choose to go to NFB centers have other attributes 
>>>>>>>>> that make them more employable. More rigorous research has to 
>>>>>>>>> be done. Furthermore, unemployment was still pretty high even 
>>>>>>>>> among the NFB center graduates, so NFB training doesn't 
>>>>>>>>> completely fix the unemployment problem. But it's a step in 
>>>>>>>>> the right direction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bridgit,
>>>>>>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught 
>>>>>>>>>> your sisters.
>>>>>>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. 
>>>>>>>>>> I had a two parent middle class household. My older brothers 
>>>>>>>>>> learned a little bit by observation. We never did have to do 
>>>>>>>>>> chores because my parents would rather
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they 
>>>>>>>>>> did do chores ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had 
>>>>>>>>>> an ocasional party or guests
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers 
>>>>>>>>>> did help in chores.
>>>>>>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and 
>>>>>>>>>> personal care.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad 
>>>>>>>>>> describing what
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride 
>>>>>>>>>> my bike with training wheels once I got that.
>>>>>>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a 
>>>>>>>>>> napkin in your lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>>>>>>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In 
>>>>>>>>>> fact, I've met
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their 
>>>>>>>>>> parents did not expect this of them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal 
>>>>>>>>>> skills, my parents
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and 
>>>>>>>>>> blue did not go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic 
>>>>>>>>>> stuff but other more advanced dressing skills were taught by 
>>>>>>>>>> my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster 
>>>>>>>>>> and less stressful.
>>>>>>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about 
>>>>>>>>>> Jonny who has autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference 
>>>>>>>>>> in the label. The thread emphasizes this "we as blind people" 
>>>>>>>>>> thing and I know we have had this talk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just 
>>>>>>>>>> me I was born with sight  but lost it very early on in life. 
>>>>>>>>>> I actually don't remember much from when I had bits of vision 
>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not totally blind but pretty close.
>>>>>>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they 
>>>>>>>>>> taught my sisters who are sighted and I understood 
>>>>>>>>>> everything. Did it take me longer?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything 
>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a 
>>>>>>>>>> school for the blind.
>>>>>>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision 
>>>>>>>>>> was getting worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech 
>>>>>>>>>> skills. I also needed to learn to cook. As a college student 
>>>>>>>>>> I still fail lol.
>>>>>>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of 
>>>>>>>>>> high school.
>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  
>>>>>>>>>> but my public school gave up. I was classified as having a 
>>>>>>>>>> visual processing learning disability rather then being 
>>>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple 
>>>>>>>>>> disabled students is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to 
>>>>>>>>>> state standards.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my 
>>>>>>>>>> public school and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never 
>>>>>>>>>> really really left.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>>>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we 
>>>>>>>>>>> send blind people to "schools for the blind" We as blind 
>>>>>>>>>>> people live in the real world,Why do we do it? You don't see 
>>>>>>>>>>> mom sending Johnny who has autism to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker1
>>>> 3%40aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e
>>>> arthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in 
>>>>>>>> the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that 
>>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>>> vanity:
>>>>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act 
>>>>>>>> on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. 
>>>>>>>> Lawrence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gm
>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%4
>>>> 0samobile.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc
>>>> ast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%
>> 40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40
> gmail.com
>


--
Ryan L. Silveira

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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et



From trising at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec 30 21:15:09 2013
From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:15:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>

Dear Maria:

     I cannot help with Braille music, but I can help with your question about increasing Braille reading speed. If you practice 
these tips, your speed will increase.
1. Read Silently! Do not move your lips as you read. Hear the words in your head, but do not mouth them. Fast readers do not move 
their lips.
2. Use six fingers of both hands! Use all fingers except pinkies and thumbs. Index fingers give details, but tall fingers and ring 
fingers give the shape of the words. Fast print readers do not read one letter at a time and neither do fast Braille readers. If one 
hand is not as sensitive, that is all right, but keep it on the page. It will help out  more as you keep it involved.
3. Keep palms up off the paper! It should feel like you have a soft ball under your palms. Flat hands with dragging palms will slow 
you down. Keep elbows and arms slightly off the desk or page. dragging these will also slow you down. Braille is primarily read with 
the tips of the fingers, slightly back from the nail, but closer to the nail than to the pad of the finger.
4. Keep in contact with the Braille, but do not brush or rub back and forth or up and down. Light touch is better. Read with both 
hands working together until the last couple words of each line. When you approach the end of the line, your hands separate 
temporarily. The right hand reads the last word or two while the left hand tracks back on the same line and moves down. This way, 
you do not lose time by losing contact with the Braille.

I hope this helps. Please contact me with questions.

Sincerely,
Terri Wilcox
Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
 



From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 21:49:38 2013
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 16:49:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
	<38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
Message-ID: <3F10AB12-CBAF-4E3C-979E-4B627B5B3CAA@gmail.com>

Thank you for these helpful tips. Are there any additional tips you would add for reading with a Braille display? I tend to read books on my BrailleNote since I am able to access the electronic books quicker than a Braille volume.


-Anjelina
Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 4:15 PM, <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Maria:
> 
>     I cannot help with Braille music, but I can help with your question about increasing Braille reading speed. If you practice 
> these tips, your speed will increase.
> 1. Read Silently! Do not move your lips as you read. Hear the words in your head, but do not mouth them. Fast readers do not move 
> their lips.
> 2. Use six fingers of both hands! Use all fingers except pinkies and thumbs. Index fingers give details, but tall fingers and ring 
> fingers give the shape of the words. Fast print readers do not read one letter at a time and neither do fast Braille readers. If one 
> hand is not as sensitive, that is all right, but keep it on the page. It will help out  more as you keep it involved.
> 3. Keep palms up off the paper! It should feel like you have a soft ball under your palms. Flat hands with dragging palms will slow 
> you down. Keep elbows and arms slightly off the desk or page. dragging these will also slow you down. Braille is primarily read with 
> the tips of the fingers, slightly back from the nail, but closer to the nail than to the pad of the finger.
> 4. Keep in contact with the Braille, but do not brush or rub back and forth or up and down. Light touch is better. Read with both 
> hands working together until the last couple words of each line. When you approach the end of the line, your hands separate 
> temporarily. The right hand reads the last word or two while the left hand tracks back on the same line and moves down. This way, 
> you do not lose time by losing contact with the Braille.
> 
> I hope this helps. Please contact me with questions.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Terri Wilcox
> Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com


From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Mon Dec 30 22:07:37 2013
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:07:37 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <3F10AB12-CBAF-4E3C-979E-4B627B5B3CAA@gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
	<38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
	<3F10AB12-CBAF-4E3C-979E-4B627B5B3CAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH69JxQaH3-3opj8dW-oEQch2UGj_gLGVr9RGL+SGTCU03A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
If using a Braille display, use your thumbs to advance the line but
maintain the two sets of four fingers on the line, assuming you have
at least 32-40 cells.  For a shorter line, (18-20 cells), one hand is
fine if as many fingers are used as possible.

Very best wishes and enjoy New Year!
Sandra.

On 12/30/13, Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for these helpful tips. Are there any additional tips you would
> add for reading with a Braille display? I tend to read books on my
> BrailleNote since I am able to access the electronic books quicker than a
> Braille volume.
>
>
> -Anjelina
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 4:15 PM, <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Maria:
>>
>>     I cannot help with Braille music, but I can help with your question
>> about increasing Braille reading speed. If you practice
>> these tips, your speed will increase.
>> 1. Read Silently! Do not move your lips as you read. Hear the words in
>> your head, but do not mouth them. Fast readers do not move
>> their lips.
>> 2. Use six fingers of both hands! Use all fingers except pinkies and
>> thumbs. Index fingers give details, but tall fingers and ring
>> fingers give the shape of the words. Fast print readers do not read one
>> letter at a time and neither do fast Braille readers. If one
>> hand is not as sensitive, that is all right, but keep it on the page. It
>> will help out  more as you keep it involved.
>> 3. Keep palms up off the paper! It should feel like you have a soft ball
>> under your palms. Flat hands with dragging palms will slow
>> you down. Keep elbows and arms slightly off the desk or page. dragging
>> these will also slow you down. Braille is primarily read with
>> the tips of the fingers, slightly back from the nail, but closer to the
>> nail than to the pad of the finger.
>> 4. Keep in contact with the Braille, but do not brush or rub back and
>> forth or up and down. Light touch is better. Read with both
>> hands working together until the last couple words of each line. When you
>> approach the end of the line, your hands separate
>> temporarily. The right hand reads the last word or two while the left hand
>> tracks back on the same line and moves down. This way,
>> you do not lose time by losing contact with the Braille.
>>
>> I hope this helps. Please contact me with questions.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Terri Wilcox
>> Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html


From trising at sbcglobal.net  Mon Dec 30 22:19:03 2013
From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:19:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <3F10AB12-CBAF-4E3C-979E-4B627B5B3CAA@gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com><38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
	<3F10AB12-CBAF-4E3C-979E-4B627B5B3CAA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43045A4E7185429F9623AA17BE3C5DE8@nickPC>

Try to learn to use your scrolling so that you do not have to keep taking your hands off the Braille. This will slow you down if you 
have to keep losing contact with the Braille as you advance the display.

Terri Wilcox 



From lizzym0827 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 00:55:51 2013
From: lizzym0827 at gmail.com (lizzy)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:55:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
Message-ID: <52c21631.020de00a.17a1.7a9e@mx.google.com>

Hi all,
Here are the basics for eye makeup.  Just as a side note, these 
are all things that I came up with through personal 
experimentation and questions, I'm sure there are many other ways 
to accomplish these tasks.
Eye shadow: I just use my pointer finger because I found that I 
applied too much when using the wand.  Get some eye shadow on the 
tip of your pointer finger, I usually swirl my finger around the 
top two or three times.  Now find the bridge of your nose with 
your middle finger.  From there you can gently touch the corner 
of your eye nearest your nose (with the pointer), but make sure 
you only get makeup on the lid.  Now swipe your finger outward 
toward the other corner of your eye.  Be sure to stay right above 
your eye lashes.  Now repeat with one more swipe, (the number of 
swipes will depend on the color).
Mascara: Okay for beginners I would recommend using either an old 
mascara wand that has been cleaned off or one of those little 
eyebrow brushes that has a comb on the back for practice.  The 
trick with mascara is finding your eye lashes without touching 
any other part of your face.  Be sure to relax so that your hands 
are steady.
Here's how to do the right eye: Hold the mascara wand in your 
right hand.  Close your eyes, put the wand where you think your 
lashes are.  Now blink.  If you don't feel anything touch your 
lashes, close your eye again and move the wand closer to your 
eye.  Repeat this step until you feel the wand brushing your 
lashes.  Once you feel something, continue blinking until you 
feel you have applied enough to this section.  The more you blink 
the more volume you get and the longer your lashes appear (2 or 3 
blinks is usually good though).  Pay attention to which section 
you have already done, I usually start on the outer part of my 
eye and move inward.  When moving to a new part of the lashes, 
close your eye, and slowly move the wand.  When your ready to see 
which part you're at hold your hand still and blink.  Tip: I've 
found that resting my hand on the side of my face (where my jaw 
is) helped me maintain orientation and relax a bit.  After it 
dries you can gently touch it and make notes for next time.  If 
you touch the wrong part of your skin with makeup, wait until 
your done applying to worry about it.  Just use a warm face cloth 
and scrub it off.
I don't use eye liner, I'm more of a mascara girl.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation,

Lizzy


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 02:23:50 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:23:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1nQq0T-3t1Nbnth7c1LWQjNZwJ-Y3JCp5QjUdCVF+WM7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <008f01cede88$83784960$0902a8c0@S0032244625>	<E8B3A5B5-FB0A-4785-A1B9-F63D05DE6B3A@aol.com>	<B9A8F4D513F24D0A87F08F0F100E50F3@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJATUYm_u+Wz0Vaaou0zYTacc=TFdF=22e=QncuBhRf3gQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAJqG9jwWc0De9emu9SrxAaZU+exxC9yrroPnjtvA7hHTFZcNg@mail.gmail.com>	<CACUFQdyLEGHMRkX5uTxuL3pH=-FAJC-HbZChpejBF2X2wWE3UA@mail.gmail.com>	<CADUoy9t2XuCLTE4kkprkiTkmoqUArDToFXCeKP-AXvrudM4S2A@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJcYH68ybprO0T0zL_ePR5KsfhEZiegdo1JPaf+h1TuaNXrtBQ@mail.gmail.com>	<75056F76-DFD3-4C9E-B39D-9F7962CB5270@samobile.net>	<7.0.1.0.2.20131230024037.020c2a38@comcast.net>	<CAFja7FYewoXMOcWYmJK8Y9ZiLjFofZkPJBueHRcEtg_NejLFgQ@mail.gmail.com>	<2F6FD4EF-8E07-44E9-A346-237A07C06E71@fuse.net>
	<CAMJRi1nQq0T-3t1Nbnth7c1LWQjNZwJ-Y3JCp5QjUdCVF+WM7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011001cf05cf$58385650$08a902f0$@gmail.com>

Yeah, a bit harsh. I can't defend schools for the blind too vehemently. I
went to our state's school during some of my summers growing up, enjoyed the
experiences, but summer programs were designed more for recreation and some
academics, not a whole lot in the way of independent living.

But, here's the thing. If we recognize that students coming out of schools
for the blind and some training centers out there aren't doing as well as
they could be doing, it's up to us to lend a hand. It's easy to criticize
what our peers did not get in the way of preparation when it doesn't involve
lifting a finger to do something about it. During my college years I
returned to the school and did small things to try to set some sort of an
example to the up and coming generation, not because I was an independent
badass with all the answers, but because examples are what partially helped
me develop a good attitude about my own blindness. I worked through our
state student division to connect with teachers around the state and managed
to get our students invited to seminars and workshops to talk to the kids
about things only fellow blind peers could fully convey.

So, any ideas on how to connect with these schools while the kids can still
be reached?

Joe

--
Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

Visit my blog:
http://joeorozco.com/blog


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Silveira
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world

Hi all,

When I was in high school, I held a meeting with all of my teachers, my TVI
and braillist (who happened to be identical twins, but that's beside the
point) during which I made all of the teachers aware of the accomidations I
would need.  I had devised, in writing, an accomidations agreement (for lack
of a better term; I cannot for the life of me recollect what I actually
called it).  In it, I outlined my responsibilities, those of my teachers and
those of my TVI and braillist.  Also outlined in the document were the
expectations each party had of the other.  For example, if the teacher
turned in an assignment to either me or my braillist a minimum of three days
prior to the time the assignment would be presented in class, then I was
expected to have the assignment turned in on time with everyone else.
However, if the teacher was delinquent in giving the matterial to me or the
braillist to be prepared and it was not ready on time for class, then I
would get an extension.  Each teacher, my braillist, my TVI and I had a copy
of this document and all of us signed it.  It was a contract that we would
each hold our ends of the bargain, if you will.I had had far too many
problems in middle school with matterials not being prepared in a timely
fashion and this document was my solution.  There also was a lovely little
Powerpoint that went with the document which I showed during the
pre-schoolyear meeting.

Regarding the discussion about schools for the blind, I agree with Kaiti
that they are not the "real" world.  They are much like training centers.
Everything is handed to the student on a silver platter and, though they
make an effort to teach independence and self-advocacy skills, it is in a
sheltered and controled environment where those skills are not necessarily
applicable.  Once the blind school grads get out into the "real" world of
jobs or college, like Kaiti said, it becomes a rather cultural shock for
them when they discover they actually have to work to get what they need.
Personally, I feel that, if the training centers and schools for the blind
are trying to teach these self-advocacy and independence skills, they should
do their very best to immitate the real world so that their students are
truly prepared when they come out.

The other issue is that, for a lot of these blind schools and training
centers (moreso the schools), their cliontele often are people with other
disabilities in addition to their blindness (e.g. severe autism or other
severe cognative disabilities), so preparing them for the "real" world
becomes a bit more difficult.  When the get a student who is, as they would
describe it "high functioning", that person tends to be treated similarly to
those who are not as high functioning.  Thus, the student leaves the school
less prepared to deal with the challenges presented by the "real" world than
they would be if they were either main-streamed or allowed to reach their
full potential.
That is a somewhat harsh assessment, I know, but I feel that it is something
that needs to be said.  The methods I mentioned above which I used in high
school were a great preparational tool for me when I got to college and I
believe that the schools for the blind should teach strategies like that
with their students as well as employ them so that their students are better
prepared.

Ryan

On 12/30/13, Lillie Pennington <lilliepennington at fuse.net> wrote:
> What I personally do is have my teachers email or drop box. Most 
> assignments. Heck, one teacher gave me a flash drive with most of the 
> assignments for the year. Of course this took meetings and discussions 
> of what each teacher is comfortable with.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 30, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Kaiti Shelton 
>> <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, to add to what Miso said, by dumbing down the accessibility 
>> stuff so students do not have to advocate for their needs in a school 
>> for the blind, they are less prepared to do so in a college setting.
>> I credit my self-advocay skills as they are today to my time in the 
>> public school system.  It wasn't perfect, and we had some hairy IEP 
>> meetings a few times, but I got to college with experience in asking 
>> for materials in advance, planning with teachers, and communicating 
>> with teachers and my braillist to get the materials done.  I think 
>> what happens to a lot of students who go to schools for the blind is 
>> that they're so used to having their materials just handed to them 
>> without accessibility issues, so when they get to college they think 
>> they are entitled to those materials without asking for them.
>>
>> I also know a girl who went to a school for the blind and had issues 
>> when she got to college because she refused to do any work that was 
>> not given to her in braille format.  With all the electronics used in 
>> alternative formats these days, I'm sure most college students on 
>> here can imagine how much work was missed.  Expecting everything to 
>> be in braille once you leave a school for the blind is not realistic, 
>> and if that is what schools for the blind are doing they're actually 
>> doing a great disservice to their students.  I am all for them 
>> teaching braille literacy, but submitting electronic assignments and 
>> using the computer to get your work done is just part of the college 
>> experience for most of us, and it needs to be taught before college.
>>
>> For those in high school, here is some food for thought.  Half way 
>> through my junior year I started asking for most of my materials from 
>> my high school teachers, and in my senior year I was in charge of 
>> getting everything from them.  This involved checking in with each 
>> one of them every week to see what we were doing in the next week.  
>> Tests needed even more preplanning.  I was responsible for delivering 
>> all work that needed to be transcribed to my braillist on my lunch 
>> breaks or before I left the building at the end of the day.  Most of 
>> the time she gave me braille because that was what she was used to 
>> doing, (I had her from the 1st to 4th grades as an aid and braillist, 
>> and from 4th grade through high school she only brailled.  She was in 
>> a habit of brailling everything because that was how we did it from 
>> 4th to about 7th grade, so it stuck).  Even though she brailled a lot 
>> though, I primarily wrote and submitted my assignments 
>> electronically, and got feedback on my work electronically as well.  
>> Email, dropbox, and flashdrives will be your best friends in college, 
>> and they'll be even easier to work with if you get used to submitting 
>> assignments in that way early on while in high school.  Develop those 
>> self-advocacy skills; they will serve you well.
>>
>>> On 12/30/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Good evening, Jedi,
>>>
>>>         Well said my blind sister! Thank you for this...
>>> for today, Car
>>>
>>> Jedi Moerke wrote:
>>>> I want to start by saying amen to Sandra. As US citizens, we have a 
>>>> greater degree of choice than most of our brothers and sisters 
>>>> outside of the country.
>>>>
>>>> Second, the choice to attend a school for the blind, mainstream, go 
>>>> to a training center, or just do it alone greatly depends on the 
>>>> resources afforded to an individual in their own life circumstances.
>>>> Could I have survived without training at LCB? Yes. Am I sorry I 
>>>> took a year out of school to attend? No. As good as my blindness 
>>>> skills were at the time, I can honestly say that I made 
>>>> considerable improvement while there. The problem is that we don't 
>>>> know what we don't know and that's dangerous, especially for a 
>>>> blind person in the competitive market. I give credit to myself and 
>>>> the training center for my success. A training center by itself 
>>>> doesn't make someone successful in the areas of daily living. I 
>>>> have seen many people waste their time during training, including 
>>>> those I train in the itinerant system, to believe otherwise is 
>>>> foolish.  I know that training has something to offer anyone who 
>>>> fully engages in the enterprise as my own story shows. So I really 
>>>> think it's a matter of what resources you have and the resources 
>>>> you bring to blindness that make a difference.
>>>>
>>>> As to the idea that the training center isn't the real world, one 
>>>> could argue that any educational institution isn't the real world.
>>>> But that's not really what's being said here. Its the idea that 
>>>> being in the so-called blind world  isn't the same as being in the 
>>>> real world, otherwise known as the sighted world. I should remind 
>>>> you that we all, the blind and sighted, live in the same world and 
>>>> that we all experience it as reality. When you're hanging out with 
>>>> other blind people, you're suddenly exposed to the same level of 
>>>> privilege afforded to the sighted. I think that's a good thing 
>>>> because then we know what equal feels like and can fight for it.
>>>> Likewise, we do need to know how to work around the inconveniences 
>>>> of blindness because, like it or not, we are a minority. Neither 
>>>> experience is more real than the other. Neither experience is 
>>>> superior to the other. A well rounded blind person needs both if 
>>>> she or he is going to be truly well adjusted in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:56 AM, Sandra Gayer <sandragayer7 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I have had to read this thread, listening to people complaining 
>>>>> about having resources which are simply non-existent in England. I 
>>>>> live here and if you'd like to live here as well, I can promise 
>>>>> you there are no such things as "Light Houses" or "Blind 
>>>>> Preschool" or, ha ha ha, "Training Centres" for the blind, unless 
>>>>> you count a couple of dedicated schools for the blind which 
>>>>> haven't been closed down yet. In this country, there are gangs who 
>>>>> specialise in guide dog bashing. I remember a girl who wouldn't 
>>>>> leave the house with her cane because some people in her area 
>>>>> found it funny to spit on her. I've never been to America although 
>>>>> I have read about the extraordinary work The NFB does. If I had 
>>>>> access to even half the things you are moaning about, I would be 
>>>>> extatic! I could go on about The NLS and how people this side of 
>>>>> the world aren't permitted access to web Braille, let alone the 
>>>>> hard copy Braille books available but I won't. I could also talk 
>>>>> about how Braille transcription is billed by the hour not the page.
Come and live here for a month and you'll be greatful for what you have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>>> Sandra.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Joshua Hendrickson <louvins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi to all.  I have been reading this thread with great interest.
>>>>>> After I get my associates of Arts degree in January, I will be 
>>>>>> going to Icrewood in Chicago which is an in state training center 
>>>>>> to learn some indipendent living skills.  For me, I need to 
>>>>>> attend this center so I can get the skills I'll need when I leave for
college.
>>>>>> Personally I would have liked to attend an NFB training center, 
>>>>>> but it is very difficult in Illinois to get VOC. rehab to pay for 
>>>>>> out of state services.  As for schools for the blind, I was 
>>>>>> mainstreamed through my Junior year of High School then attended 
>>>>>> the school for the blind for 3 years.  Personally, I like 
>>>>>> mainstreaming a lot better.  I feel the education I received in 
>>>>>> public school was better than what I received at ISVI.  I wish I 
>>>>>> had learned algebra while at ISVI because I would have gotten my 
>>>>>> associates degree a lot quicker and not have had to take so many 
>>>>>> remedial math classes.  Like others have already stated, it is up 
>>>>>> to the individual whether to go to a center or not.
>>>>>> I did receive some daily living skills while at the school for 
>>>>>> the blind, but since I didn't use them when I came back home, I 
>>>>>> lost them.
>>>>>> We were never allowed to use the stove or oven unattended which 
>>>>>> to me kind of defeated the purpose of them trying to teach us to
cook.
>>>>>> Anyway have a grat day all, and there are my thoughts for 
>>>>>> whatever they may be worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Minh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you have a lot of great points. I wish I had been raised 
>>>>>>> with opportunities to build confidence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the research, I am excited about the paper that Arielle 
>>>>>>> brought up. When I was justifying to my state that I had the 
>>>>>>> right to an informed choice and to go to an out-of-state 
>>>>>>> training center, Al Spooner at BLIND, Inc. taught me that one 
>>>>>>> success measure is whether a graduate obtains employment or 
>>>>>>> starts school within a year of graduating from training. There 
>>>>>>> are flaws to this. For example, I think one year is a long time, 
>>>>>>> and who says employment obtained is the desired job. Plus, many 
>>>>>>> people go blind as older adults, so one may attend a training 
>>>>>>> center for more daily living skills and decide later that they 
>>>>>>> don't want to work anymore. But it is a quantafiable measure. I 
>>>>>>> think that the NFB training centers have success rates according 
>>>>>>> to these  measures in the 90 percentile or higher and the state 
>>>>>>> training enter in NC had a 16% rate according to that measure.
>>>>>>> But the paper will probably provide more insight on this.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately there is not a lot of research like this going on, 
>>>>>>> and not a lot of good blindness-related journals to publish in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would say that going to a training center does not remove you 
>>>>>>> from society. I think that is a misconception. Just as going to 
>>>>>>> class takes up time and working a job takes time, going to 
>>>>>>> training during the day does take time. And there are some field 
>>>>>>> trips that were all day or overnight, but school and work have 
>>>>>>> these requirements as well. I made friends outside the center, 
>>>>>>> volunteered, and explored Minneapolis. I did not choose to work 
>>>>>>> or do an internship during training, but I realize that could 
>>>>>>> have provided another great experience. Once I wasn't in class, 
>>>>>>> my time was mine. I happened to make friends with center 
>>>>>>> students just as you would make friends with neighbors and 
>>>>>>> classmates. I didn't hang out because they were blind or because 
>>>>>>> someone told me I had to. I hung out with them, and the other 
>>>>>>> sighted people I met in Minneapolis because I met them and they 
>>>>>>> were cool people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The NFB training center philosophy is all encompassing. For 
>>>>>>> example, your life outside of class does give you opportunities 
>>>>>>> to practice your skills and you are expected to use your 
>>>>>>> nonvisual techniques at home and in the community. However, I 
>>>>>>> don't think that this experiential part of training meant that 
>>>>>>> my time outside of class wasn't mine, and so therefore, I feel 
>>>>>>> that I was not "removed" from society.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize that statement was kind of a segue from the original 
>>>>>>> topic, but it is one that I am passionate about. I had several 
>>>>>>> naysayers and people make fun of me for going to training 
>>>>>>> because they perceived it as a time when I would be removing 
>>>>>>> myself from society. But it was just the opposite. It has 
>>>>>>> allowed me to take more advantage of what society has to offer. 
>>>>>>> Someone who already possesses these skills and confidence could 
>>>>>>> then perceive this as unnecessary, but I realized that I needed 
>>>>>>> the opportunity to be successful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Arielle,
>>>>>>>> I'm really interested in this topic. Is the paper available for 
>>>>>>>> viewing online? I would love to read it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/11/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Min,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you make some good points and I agree that experience 
>>>>>>>>> is the best teacher. However, I think part of what the centers 
>>>>>>>>> do is to provide opportunities for that experience. Many of us 
>>>>>>>>> who were sheltered didn't even get the chance to try things 
>>>>>>>>> out, much less learn the proper nonvisual way to do them. For 
>>>>>>>>> example, one thing I did for the first time at LCB was light 
>>>>>>>>> candles. I had never been allowed to do anything with matches 
>>>>>>>>> before I went to LCB. My teacher at LCB taught me a few tricks 
>>>>>>>>> but mostly it was just me being required to swallow my fear 
>>>>>>>>> and strike a match and put it to the candle.
>>>>>>>>> Through that experience I learned how to tell when the candle 
>>>>>>>>> was lit and how to put the match out safely. That said, I did 
>>>>>>>>> have decent skills before coming to the center and I think I 
>>>>>>>>> probably could have been reasonably successful without center 
>>>>>>>>> training. But I had specialized blindness training at the 
>>>>>>>>> preschool and in-home instruction in daily living skills 
>>>>>>>>> because my parents didn't feel confident enough to teach me a 
>>>>>>>>> lot of things themselves at home. I do think the center gave 
>>>>>>>>> me a lot of confidence even if I did have skills and even 
>>>>>>>>> though I know how to learn things on my own.
>>>>>>>>> Also, I combined my center training with a research 
>>>>>>>>> internship, so I don't feel like I put my life on hold. It was 
>>>>>>>>> just two mornings a week so it didn't interfere with classes, 
>>>>>>>>> but it really helped my resume.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> probably would not have gotten the research internship if I 
>>>>>>>>> hadn't gone to the center since it was at Louisiana Tech. I 
>>>>>>>>> know some center students have a brief volunteer stint or take 
>>>>>>>>> a college class while they are at the center as part of their 
>>>>>>>>> training. So it isn't just blindness training the whole time. 
>>>>>>>>> In addition, I had a lot of amazing social experiences while I 
>>>>>>>>> was there that I probably won't have again as a working, 
>>>>>>>>> married woman.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You also ask how success is measured. Regrettably, I think 
>>>>>>>>> most of the evidence is anecdotal. However, Dr. Bell at 
>>>>>>>>> Louisiana Tech did recently conduct a study which showed that 
>>>>>>>>> NFB center graduates have higher employment rates and earn 
>>>>>>>>> higher incomes than those who attended traditional centers or 
>>>>>>>>> no center at all. Actually, the rates were lower among 
>>>>>>>>> traditional center grads than among those who attended no 
>>>>>>>>> center, but the rates were highest among those who attended 
>>>>>>>>> NFB centers. I have read his paper and as a researcher I think 
>>>>>>>>> the research was conducted well and with as little bias as 
>>>>>>>>> possible. However, it is impossible to tell if the center 
>>>>>>>>> training actually caused the increase in employment or if 
>>>>>>>>> people who choose to go to NFB centers have other attributes 
>>>>>>>>> that make them more employable. More rigorous research has to 
>>>>>>>>> be done. Furthermore, unemployment was still pretty high even 
>>>>>>>>> among the NFB center graduates, so NFB training doesn't 
>>>>>>>>> completely fix the unemployment problem. But it's a step in 
>>>>>>>>> the right direction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/13, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Bridgit,
>>>>>>>>>> You were lucky your parents taught you just as they taught 
>>>>>>>>>> your sisters.
>>>>>>>>>> That is how it should be. But my experience was the opposite. 
>>>>>>>>>> I had a two parent middle class household. My older brothers 
>>>>>>>>>> learned a little bit by observation. We never did have to do 
>>>>>>>>>> chores because my parents would rather
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> do that. But when my brothers were teens, I recall that they 
>>>>>>>>>> did do chores ocasionally. When holidays came or when we had 
>>>>>>>>>> an ocasional party or guests
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> come such as that time my aunt and cousins came, my brothers 
>>>>>>>>>> did help in chores.
>>>>>>>>>> However, my parents taught me little about housework and 
>>>>>>>>>> personal care.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me about manners and behavior? Yes.
>>>>>>>>>> Did they teach me basic play skills? Yes. I remember my dad 
>>>>>>>>>> describing what
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> a tricycle was and how to ride it and then telling me to ride 
>>>>>>>>>> my bike with training wheels once I got that.
>>>>>>>>>> They also told me about dinner etiquette such as placing a 
>>>>>>>>>> napkin in your lap and chew with mouth  closed.
>>>>>>>>>> In this regard, I learned about behavior with my brothers. In 
>>>>>>>>>> fact, I've met
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> blind youth who lack this knowledge and its sad to know their 
>>>>>>>>>> parents did not expect this of them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But when it comes to home management skills and personal 
>>>>>>>>>> skills, my parents
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> did not do anything. Only thing is my mom did say black and 
>>>>>>>>>> blue did not go
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> together. Personal skills were taught by my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> Okay, mom did help me learn to dress myself and very basic 
>>>>>>>>>> stuff but other more advanced dressing skills were taught by 
>>>>>>>>>> my vision teacher.
>>>>>>>>>> She taught me how to zip a coat and how to button clothes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many parents just do for their blind kids because its faster 
>>>>>>>>>> and less stressful.
>>>>>>>>>> So you were quite fortunate your parents taught you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Bridget Walker
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:57 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here is my take and I warn you it is strong. You talk about 
>>>>>>>>>> Jonny who has autism. Did anyone catch on to the difference 
>>>>>>>>>> in the label. The thread emphasizes this "we as blind people" 
>>>>>>>>>> thing and I know we have had this talk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> are we really going to put a disability first? This is just 
>>>>>>>>>> me I was born with sight  but lost it very early on in life. 
>>>>>>>>>> I actually don't remember much from when I had bits of vision 
>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not totally blind but pretty close.
>>>>>>>>>> So how do I know what I do? My parents taught me just as they 
>>>>>>>>>> taught my sisters who are sighted and I understood 
>>>>>>>>>> everything. Did it take me longer?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes yes but, for me I did not have to do anything 
>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>> That's not to say I did not go to a training center or a 
>>>>>>>>>> school for the blind.
>>>>>>>>>> I went to a center for two five week programs when my vision 
>>>>>>>>>> was getting worse in my youth. I needed to gain ONM and tech 
>>>>>>>>>> skills. I also needed to learn to cook. As a college student 
>>>>>>>>>> I still fail lol.
>>>>>>>>>> Finally I went to a school for the blind for two years of 
>>>>>>>>>> high school.
>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> had nothing to do with my inability to reach expectations  
>>>>>>>>>> but my public school gave up. I was classified as having a 
>>>>>>>>>> visual processing learning disability rather then being 
>>>>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>>>> That bit about schools for the blind being for multiple 
>>>>>>>>>> disabled students is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> not true. I was in a setting where students were working to 
>>>>>>>>>> state standards.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I spent two years there and was able to do work back at my 
>>>>>>>>>> public school and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> graduate with the mainstream students. Lets face it I never 
>>>>>>>>>> really really left.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:48 PM, "RJ Sandefur"
>>>>>>>>>> <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do we send blind people to training centers? Why do we 
>>>>>>>>>>> send blind people to "schools for the blind" We as blind 
>>>>>>>>>>> people live in the real world,Why do we do it? You don't see 
>>>>>>>>>>> mom sending Johnny who has autism to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> aschool for autistic kids!
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bridgetawalker1
>>>> 3%40aol.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40e
>>>> arthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in 
>>>>>>>> the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that 
>>>>>>>> it was
>>>>>>>> vanity:
>>>>>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act 
>>>>>>>> on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. 
>>>>>>>> Lawrence
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>>>>> Secretary: National Association of Blind Students
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/louvins%40gm
>>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Broadcast Presenter
>>>>>
>>>>> www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%4
>>>> 0samobile.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comc
>>>> ast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
>>> 4%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilliepennington%
>> 40fuse.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40
> gmail.com
>


--
Ryan L. Silveira

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From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 02:26:00 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:26:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>

You could also use an Olympus recorder to capture a clear recording.
Smartphones are great but not necessarily equipped with the best
microphones. Then I think, though you'd have to check me on this, you could
use something like Dragon to convert the audio to text. It's an expensive
suggestion, but I don't think you'll find an app to do exactly what you're
looking for. If there is such a thing, by all means let us in on it.

Joe

--
Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

Visit my blog:
http://joeorozco.com/blog


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note taking

Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages or the notes
app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and if
it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And you
will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.

Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would
like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
lecture, meeting, seminar, etc. 
> 
> Thanks! 
> 
> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> (336) 988-6375
> pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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From mikgephart at icloud.com  Tue Dec 31 02:28:03 2013
From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:28:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
	<011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E26DB3AE-FBBF-47B8-8413-4FC12E1C932B@icloud.com>

I also like the Victor Reader Stream, but that is not an IPhone app.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You could also use an Olympus recorder to capture a clear recording.
> Smartphones are great but not necessarily equipped with the best
> microphones. Then I think, though you'd have to check me on this, you could
> use something like Dragon to convert the audio to text. It's an expensive
> suggestion, but I don't think you'll find an app to do exactly what you're
> looking for. If there is such a thing, by all means let us in on it.
> 
> Joe
> 
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> 
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note taking
> 
> Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages or the notes
> app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and if
> it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And you
> will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
> 
> Joseph Hudson
> Email
> jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> 
>> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would
> like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
> lecture, meeting, seminar, etc. 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> 
>> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> (336) 988-6375
>> pompey2010 at yahoo.com 
>> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com


From lilliepennington at fuse.net  Tue Dec 31 03:28:53 2013
From: lilliepennington at fuse.net (Lillie Pennington)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:28:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills
In-Reply-To: <52c21631.020de00a.17a1.7a9e@mx.google.com>
References: <52c21631.020de00a.17a1.7a9e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001b01cf05d8$6ec17240$4c4456c0$@net>

This explanation is really good. Thanks for this.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of lizzy
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 7:56 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ideas on how to accomplish daily living skills

Hi all,
Here are the basics for eye makeup.  Just as a side note, these are all
things that I came up with through personal experimentation and questions,
I'm sure there are many other ways to accomplish these tasks.
Eye shadow: I just use my pointer finger because I found that I applied too
much when using the wand.  Get some eye shadow on the tip of your pointer
finger, I usually swirl my finger around the top two or three times.  Now
find the bridge of your nose with your middle finger.  From there you can
gently touch the corner of your eye nearest your nose (with the pointer),
but make sure you only get makeup on the lid.  Now swipe your finger outward
toward the other corner of your eye.  Be sure to stay right above your eye
lashes.  Now repeat with one more swipe, (the number of swipes will depend
on the color).
Mascara: Okay for beginners I would recommend using either an old mascara
wand that has been cleaned off or one of those little eyebrow brushes that
has a comb on the back for practice.  The trick with mascara is finding your
eye lashes without touching any other part of your face.  Be sure to relax
so that your hands are steady.
Here's how to do the right eye: Hold the mascara wand in your right hand.
Close your eyes, put the wand where you think your lashes are.  Now blink.
If you don't feel anything touch your lashes, close your eye again and move
the wand closer to your eye.  Repeat this step until you feel the wand
brushing your lashes.  Once you feel something, continue blinking until you
feel you have applied enough to this section.  The more you blink the more
volume you get and the longer your lashes appear (2 or 3 blinks is usually
good though).  Pay attention to which section you have already done, I
usually start on the outer part of my eye and move inward.  When moving to a
new part of the lashes, close your eye, and slowly move the wand.  When your
ready to see which part you're at hold your hand still and blink.  Tip: I've
found that resting my hand on the side of my face (where my jaw
is) helped me maintain orientation and relax a bit.  After it dries you can
gently touch it and make notes for next time.  If you touch the wrong part
of your skin with makeup, wait until your done applying to worry about it.
Just use a warm face cloth and scrub it off.
I don't use eye liner, I'm more of a mascara girl.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation,

Lizzy

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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net



From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 03:52:12 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:52:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>

Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does anyone here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I 
actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app into 
my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they give me 
a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it be 
possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how could I 
start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on 
there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!  
-------------- next part --------------
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 03:57:35 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 22:57:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:  How to use Dropbox
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does anyone here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I 
> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app into 
> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they give me 
> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it be 
> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how could I 
> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on 
> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!  
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com

From carlymih at comcast.net  Tue Dec 31 14:49:51 2013
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 06:49:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <E26DB3AE-FBBF-47B8-8413-4FC12E1C932B@icloud.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
	<011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>
	<E26DB3AE-FBBF-47B8-8413-4FC12E1C932B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20131231064805.01e83df8@comcast.net>

Good jorning, Don't forget mr. Victor Stream whose Mic is quite 
good.. if looking for a relitavely low-tech way.
for today, Car

/2013, Mikayla Gephart wrote:
>I also like the Victor Reader Stream, but that is not an IPhone app.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You could also use an Olympus recorder to capture a clear recording.
> > Smartphones are great but not necessarily equipped with the best
> > microphones. Then I think, though you'd have to check me on this, you could
> > use something like Dragon to convert the audio to text. It's an expensive
> > suggestion, but I don't think you'll find an app to do exactly what you're
> > looking for. If there is such a thing, by all means let us in on it.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --
> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> >
> > Visit my blog:
> > http://joeorozco.com/blog
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Hudson
> > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:01 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note taking
> >
> > Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages 
> or the notes
> > app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and if
> > it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And you
> > will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
> >
> > Joseph Hudson
> > Email
> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I would
> > like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
> > lecture, meeting, seminar, etc.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
> >> (336) 988-6375
> >> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
> >> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net



From filerime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 16:45:12 2013
From: filerime at gmail.com (Elif Emir)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:45:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,
When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you’ll see
it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
is a kind of personal storage area.
Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
dropbox link” and press enter
Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
this link and get the item.
The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
You should find “share this folder” and press enter. This time you’ll
go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
not a link but opens with enter like a link. You’ll find here the
sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
e-mail address there. Finally you need to press “send invites”
Button. However, I couldn’t manage to do that with jaws and internet
explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It’s an
accessibility issue or my problem.
Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it’s very
nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
would disappear from everybody’s folders. To be able to share a folder
like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you’ll get extra space on
your dropbox account.
If you have any more questions, please ask me.
And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with me.
Happy new year for everybody.
Elif


2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does anyone
>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app into
>>
>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they give
>> me
>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it be
>>
>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how could
>> I
>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on
>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give me
>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 17:59:21 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 11:59:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>

Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
year.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Helga,
> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you’ll see
> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
> is a kind of personal storage area.
> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
> dropbox link” and press enter
> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
> this link and get the item.
> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
> You should find “share this folder” and press enter. This time you’ll
> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You’ll find here the
> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press “send invites”
> Button. However, I couldn’t manage to do that with jaws and internet
> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It’s an
> accessibility issue or my problem.
> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it’s very
> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
> would disappear from everybody’s folders. To be able to share a folder
> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you’ll get extra space on
> your dropbox account.
> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with me.
> Happy new year for everybody.
> Elif
>
>
> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>
>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>> anyone
>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>> into
>>>
>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they give
>>> me
>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it
>>> be
>>>
>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>> could
>>> I
>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on
>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give
>>> me
>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 18:01:19 2013
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (Mariya Vasileva)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:01:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com>
	<CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl>
	<9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC>
	<BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC>
	<BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl>
	<CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC>
	<CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com>
	<38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
Message-ID: <7EA6C965-E289-469F-B831-0D2839DA287B@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2013, at 4:15 PM, <trising at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Maria:
> 
>     I cannot help with Braille music, but I can help with your question about increasing Braille reading speed. If you practice 
> these tips, your speed will increase.
> 1. Read Silently! Do not move your lips as you read. Hear the words in your head, but do not mouth them. Fast readers do not move 
> their lips.
> 2. Use six fingers of both hands! Use all fingers except pinkies and thumbs. Index fingers give details, but tall fingers and ring 
> fingers give the shape of the words. Fast print readers do not read one letter at a time and neither do fast Braille readers. If one 
> hand is not as sensitive, that is all right, but keep it on the page. It will help out  more as you keep it involved.
> 3. Keep palms up off the paper! It should feel like you have a soft ball under your palms. Flat hands with dragging palms will slow 
> you down. Keep elbows and arms slightly off the desk or page. dragging these will also slow you down. Braille is primarily read with 
> the tips of the fingers, slightly back from the nail, but closer to the nail than to the pad of the finger.
> 4. Keep in contact with the Braille, but do not brush or rub back and forth or up and down. Light touch is better. Read with both 
> hands working together until the last couple words of each line. When you approach the end of the line, your hands separate 
> temporarily. The right hand reads the last word or two while the left hand tracks back on the same line and moves down. This way, 
> you do not lose time by losing contact with the Braille.
> 
> I hope this helps. Please contact me with questions.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Terri Wilcox
> Secretary, National Federation of the Blind of Michigan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com

Dear Terri:
I wanted to thank you for the tips,  I will take them int heavy consideration as I greatly do need to improve. I do have three other questions for you, have you been to a training center for an adult program?, if you have, how would best describe the techniques on sewing on buttons and sewing holes shut? Also, what is the seam method of ironing shirts best described? I already know it for pants from a summer training program. How would I apply for VR services in a state with a better financial status than Georgia which is where I reside currently, and for me to go to LCB for adult training, while I'm they are not going to pay me.  

From trising at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec 31 18:38:50 2013
From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:38:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Reading Speed
In-Reply-To: <7EA6C965-E289-469F-B831-0D2839DA287B@gmail.com>
References: <52b5e8e0.0a72e00a.7736.ffffa292@mx.google.com><CADUoy9tLVLp3j46feUP49xhpeWo0k3GqpqEKjv1T3qdWp5CvYg@mail.gmail.com><BLU406-EAS1251B2778F73682E7BE6EFFF5C60@phx.gbl><9F5314ABF463447BBF6984923C72B740@OwnerPC><BLU172-DS6AA6B6CF5CE511B70AF61F5C10@phx.gbl><5CFE180310DA4FF393A635E70DDA80FD@MistyBradleyPC><BLU406-EAS41DD49D95E5B741F454EC4F5C10@phx.gbl><C86F7373B1594859A02349CE9F8C9A5C@MistyBradleyPC><BLU172-DS5953A433C5E20F686E768F5C10@phx.gbl><CAJcYH69kJGp1nh3qQx0Q4Ci7Phzn3QTFhuTRDy-m+jqbtL2wrQ@mail.gmail.com><31649451F2EE416C899C7CF8D72194C2@nickPC><CA+D3vORX=T-zxFa3YLOAJC95VfaVnXzgCF0Y_X4oe6bOJmuWug@mail.gmail.com><38C357C5447C4B2EAB0B588AFCFBF92C@nickPC>
	<7EA6C965-E289-469F-B831-0D2839DA287B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E48CE288FF794F27859A870493D9D1FE@nickPC>

Dear Maria:

     I do not know how to sew, but some of the others on the list who are experts in that area will hopefully chime in. I hope you 
can go to Louisiana Center for the Blind. Contact the State President of the National Federation of the Blind in your home state of 
Georgia, and the Louisiana Center and they will help you advocate for yourself and walk you through the process so that you can go 
to the center of your choice. Under Federal Law, you should be able to go to the center of your choice. It will be a matter of 
writing a letter to your rehabilitation agency and stating that you want training in specific things that the Louisiana Center has, 
but your state training does not provide.

Sincerely,
Terri Wilcox 



From filerime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 19:15:26 2013
From: filerime at gmail.com (Elif Emir)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:15:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
I don't do any rar
I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
need to rar anything.


2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
> year.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Helga,
>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>> dropbox link" and press enter
>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>> this link and get the item.
>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>> your dropbox account.
>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>> me.
>> Happy new year for everybody.
>> Elif
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>> anyone
>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>> into
>>>>
>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>> give
>>>> me
>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would it
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>> could
>>>> I
>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers on
>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and give
>>>> me
>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 19:35:15 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 13:35:15 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.

On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
> I don't do any rar
> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
> need to rar anything.
>
>
> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>> year.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Helga,
>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>> this link and get the item.
>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>> your dropbox account.
>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>> me.
>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>> Elif
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>> into
>>>>>
>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>> give
>>>>> me
>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>> it
>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>> could
>>>>> I
>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>> on
>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>> give
>>>>> me
>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From filerime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:01:05 2013
From: filerime at gmail.com (Elif Emir)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:01:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9ciLt=ZWAR=3qoKh_TL=tgOwfmpQwPtBhStYi5TWzsn1A@mail.gmail.com>

I have just trıed and it worked.
firstly You need to open the document whether it's a word document or
a picture or a folder. Then the share button on the tup gets
activated.
you can share via e-mail twitter facebook or text
I used e-mail and it worked
Thanks I'll put the folder on my PC and share it on my Iphone
I liked this idea
Thanks again for sharing


2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:03:31 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:03:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>

Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a new 
document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word on 
the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just 
wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious! I 
actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I 
downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in order 
to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word 
document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how do 
I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the Dropbox 
folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just 
curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate it 
a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions. 
Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.

On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
> I don't do any rar
> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
> need to rar anything.
>
>
> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>> year.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Helga,
>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>> this link and get the item.
>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>> your dropbox account.
>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>> me.
>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>> Elif
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>> into
>>>>>
>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>> give
>>>>> me
>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>> it
>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>> could
>>>>> I
>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>> on
>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>> give
>>>>> me
>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:11:43 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:11:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9ciLt=ZWAR=3qoKh_TL=tgOwfmpQwPtBhStYi5TWzsn1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9ciLt=ZWAR=3qoKh_TL=tgOwfmpQwPtBhStYi5TWzsn1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS19E179DF55E417216FC3BBF5C90@phx.gbl>

Hi Elif, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, Do yu think is easier to 
share folders, documents, and links from the iPhone, rather than from the 
computer? If it is, could you tell me how to do it? Thanks and God bless!! 
:)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Elif Emir
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

I have just trıed and it worked.
firstly You need to open the document whether it's a word document or
a picture or a folder. Then the share button on the tup gets
activated.
you can share via e-mail twitter facebook or text
I used e-mail and it worked
Thanks I'll put the folder on my PC and share it on my Iphone
I liked this idea
Thanks again for sharing


2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:14:16 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:14:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
give more detailed instructions.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a new
> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word on
> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious! I
> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in order
> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how do
> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the Dropbox
> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate it
> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:17:24 2013
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:17:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c501cf0665$52a01480$f7e03d80$@gmail.com>

Hi, there's no more Public folder in newer versions of Dropbox. You share
the folder or document from the context menu anywhere in the Dropbox folder.
As for creating a document, you launch Word and save to Dropbox the same as
you would any other file to My Documents. All Dropbox is doing is providing
an additional folder in your system whose contents are synchronized with the
cloud service.

Joe

--
Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

Visit my blog:
http://joeorozco.com/blog




From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:31:46 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:31:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <00c501cf0665$52a01480$f7e03d80$@gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c501cf0665$52a01480$f7e03d80$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1nNEZzPVf1M9xOM0qUWC_J_Rox2Ymn5j5+0mLQDU3hszQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Joe.  I couldn't remember if the public folder was there or
not.  I wanted to go with my gut and say it was not, but then I
second-guessed myself and figured I might as well say it was there
just in case I was crazy.  Just goes to show: I should have gone with
my gut instinct.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, there's no more Public folder in newer versions of Dropbox. You share
> the folder or document from the context menu anywhere in the Dropbox
> folder.
> As for creating a document, you launch Word and save to Dropbox the same as
> you would any other file to My Documents. All Dropbox is doing is providing
> an additional folder in your system whose contents are synchronized with
> the
> cloud service.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> Visit my blog:
> http://joeorozco.com/blog
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:33:22 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:33:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>

Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word 
into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to save 
the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it. Thanks 
and God bless!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Helga,

You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
give more detailed instructions.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a new
> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word 
> on
> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious! 
> I
> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in 
> order
> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how 
> do
> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the Dropbox
> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate 
> it
> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com 



From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:42:57 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:42:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Helga,

What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
instructions are clear enough.

1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
2. Name your file.
3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
and press enter.
5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
dropbox.

Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.

Ryan


On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to save
> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it. Thanks
> and God bless!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Hi Helga,
>
> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
> give more detailed instructions.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a new
>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word
>> on
>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious!
>> I
>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>> order
>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how
>> do
>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the Dropbox
>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate
>> it
>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>
>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>> I don't do any rar
>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>> need to rar anything.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>>> me.
>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>> Elif
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From filerime at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:52:33 2013
From: filerime at gmail.com (Elif Emir)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:52:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9dj9fB8imr+gT-x5xM5kvZts73Wct64xabEY0Mas7=i+w@mail.gmail.com>

for sharing folders Iphone is good but for sharing links maybe PC is
better for me because I don't lıke typing on Iphone and don't know how
to paste the lınk ın an e-mail.
You can try and find yor own way.

2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Hi Helga,
>
> What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
> it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
> using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
> let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
> used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
> instructions are clear enough.
>
> 1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
> 2. Name your file.
> 3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
> 4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
> the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
> and press enter.
> 5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
> dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
> 6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
> items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
> dropbox.
>
> Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
> more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
>> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to
>> save
>> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it.
>> Thanks
>> and God bless!!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>
>> Hi Helga,
>>
>> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
>> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
>> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
>> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
>> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
>> give more detailed instructions.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a
>>> new
>>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word
>>> on
>>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
>>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious!
>>> I
>>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>>> order
>>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how
>>> do
>>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the
>>> Dropbox
>>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
>>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate
>>> it
>>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>
>>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>>> I don't do any rar
>>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>>> need to rar anything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>>> year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>>> Elif
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox
>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>


From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 20:57:41 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:57:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS96D35383E5EC294F947E8F5C90@phx.gbl>

Hey! Ryan, I press control S after writing the document right? Or do I press 
f12 in order to save it? Do yu think would it be easier pressing f12 in 
order to save it in Documents, then open documents and then find the file 
you have save, and then copy it and then paste it to Dropbox? Just curious!, 
since I always do that whenever I save a document and want to copy it into a 
Drive. I will really appreciate it alot , if yu could give me some 
suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Helga,

What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
instructions are clear enough.

1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
2. Name your file.
3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
and press enter.
5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
dropbox.

Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.

Ryan


On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to 
> save
> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it. 
> Thanks
> and God bless!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Hi Helga,
>
> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
> give more detailed instructions.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a 
>> new
>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word
>> on
>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious!
>> I
>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>> order
>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how
>> do
>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the 
>> Dropbox
>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate
>> it
>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>
>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>> I don't do any rar
>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>> need to rar anything.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>>> me.
>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>> Elif
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox 
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

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From helga.schreiber at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 31 21:01:20 2013
From: helga.schreiber at hotmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:01:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9dj9fB8imr+gT-x5xM5kvZts73Wct64xabEY0Mas7=i+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9dj9fB8imr+gT-x5xM5kvZts73Wct64xabEY0Mas7=i+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-DS8509FE39AB3416E04D375F5C90@phx.gbl>

Hey! Elif, this is Helga. How do yu share a folder with the iPhone? Just 
curious! Could yu tell me how to do that? Just curius! I'm not really so 
sure! Thanks and God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Elif Emir
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

for sharing folders Iphone is good but for sharing links maybe PC is
better for me because I don't lıke typing on Iphone and don't know how
to paste the lınk ın an e-mail.
You can try and find yor own way.

2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Hi Helga,
>
> What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
> it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
> using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
> let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
> used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
> instructions are clear enough.
>
> 1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
> 2. Name your file.
> 3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
> 4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
> the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
> and press enter.
> 5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
> dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
> 6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
> items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
> dropbox.
>
> Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
> more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
>> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to
>> save
>> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it.
>> Thanks
>> and God bless!!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>
>> Hi Helga,
>>
>> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
>> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
>> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
>> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
>> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
>> give more detailed instructions.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a
>>> new
>>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word
>>> on
>>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
>>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just 
>>> curious!
>>> I
>>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>>> order
>>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, 
>>> how
>>> do
>>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the
>>> Dropbox
>>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
>>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really 
>>> appreciate
>>> it
>>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>
>>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>>> I don't do any rar
>>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>>> need to rar anything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>>> year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new 
>>>>>> folders
>>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a 
>>>>>> folder
>>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>>> Elif
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox
>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, 
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in 
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting 
>>>>>>>> papers
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

_______________________________________________
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 21:02:51 2013
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:02:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20131231064805.01e83df8@comcast.net>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
	<011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>
	<E26DB3AE-FBBF-47B8-8413-4FC12E1C932B@icloud.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131231064805.01e83df8@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAFja7Fb-jxy945uT0rpZAcX0bsxwyxUeUFR7i3OcMFqvUWjeYw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Last I checked there was a Dragon Dictate app for the IPhone in the
app store.  It did a slightly better job than the IOS dictation, but
it wasn't considerable enough for me to really say it was great for a
long note.  It worked fine for writing quick emails and the like.

If you're just looking to get stuff written down faster than you could
using the on-screen keyboard, how about looking into an external case
for your phone with a qwerty keyboard?  I had one that connected via
bluetooth and it can save a lot of time.  AT Guys usually has them for
a pretty good price if you're interested.

On 12/31/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
> Good jorning, Don't forget mr. Victor Stream whose Mic is quite
> good.. if looking for a relitavely low-tech way.
> for today, Car
>
> /2013, Mikayla Gephart wrote:
>>I also like the Victor Reader Stream, but that is not an IPhone app.
>>
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > You could also use an Olympus recorder to capture a clear recording.
>> > Smartphones are great but not necessarily equipped with the best
>> > microphones. Then I think, though you'd have to check me on this, you
>> > could
>> > use something like Dragon to convert the audio to text. It's an
>> > expensive
>> > suggestion, but I don't think you'll find an app to do exactly what
>> > you're
>> > looking for. If there is such a thing, by all means let us in on it.
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> > --
>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>> >
>> > Visit my blog:
>> > http://joeorozco.com/blog
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
>> > Hudson
>> > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:01 PM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note taking
>> >
>> > Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages
>> or the notes
>> > app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away and
>> > if
>> > it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And
>> > you
>> > will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
>> >
>> > Joseph Hudson
>> > Email
>> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I
>> >> would
>> > like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
>> > lecture, meeting, seminar, etc.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>> >> (336) 988-6375
>> >> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>> >> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 21:09:47 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS8509FE39AB3416E04D375F5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMtP_9dj9fB8imr+gT-x5xM5kvZts73Wct64xabEY0Mas7=i+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS8509FE39AB3416E04D375F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1mGUhVZaH7NSXBmqt3Msfq1Kke+PLcVPamp5BY7jTDFig@mail.gmail.com>

Either one will work.  Control S is usually the easiest as it
generally puts you right in My Documents and you don't have to worry
about the possibility of maybe being in some other directory, but if
you know how to do it using F12, go for it.  Since Dropbox is not a
drive or separate route directory, but rather is located within
Documents, either way would be fine.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey! Elif, this is Helga. How do yu share a folder with the iPhone? Just
> curious! Could yu tell me how to do that? Just curius! I'm not really so
> sure! Thanks and God bless!! :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elif Emir
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> for sharing folders Iphone is good but for sharing links maybe PC is
> better for me because I don't lıke typing on Iphone and don't know how
> to paste the lınk ın an e-mail.
> You can try and find yor own way.
>
> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>> Hi Helga,
>>
>> What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
>> it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
>> using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
>> let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
>> used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
>> instructions are clear enough.
>>
>> 1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
>> 2. Name your file.
>> 3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
>> 4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
>> the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
>> and press enter.
>> 5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
>> dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
>> 6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
>> items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
>> dropbox.
>>
>> Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
>> more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in
>>> Word
>>> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to
>>> save
>>> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it.
>>> Thanks
>>> and God bless!!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>
>>> Hi Helga,
>>>
>>> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
>>> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
>>> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
>>> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
>>> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
>>> give more detailed instructions.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a
>>>> new
>>>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft
>>>> word
>>>> on
>>>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder?
>>>> Just
>>>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just
>>>> curious!
>>>> I
>>>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>>>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>>>> order
>>>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>>>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you,
>>>> how
>>>> do
>>>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the
>>>> Dropbox
>>>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home?
>>>> Just
>>>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really
>>>> appreciate
>>>> it
>>>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>>>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>>>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>>>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>>>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>>>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>>>> I don't do any rar
>>>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>>>> need to rar anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I
>>>>>> can't
>>>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>>>> year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new
>>>>>>> folders
>>>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa.
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time
>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a
>>>>>>> folder
>>>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>>>> Elif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox
>>>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could,
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting
>>>>>>>>> papers
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 21:15:33 2013
From: ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com (Ryan Silveira)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:15:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Note taking
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7Fb-jxy945uT0rpZAcX0bsxwyxUeUFR7i3OcMFqvUWjeYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2486190A-B5DB-41E8-9C21-9398E9EFA91B@yahoo.com>
	<122302A2-B975-419F-B24B-9B3E7B138DFA@gmail.com>
	<011101cf05cf$a5975040$f0c5f0c0$@gmail.com>
	<E26DB3AE-FBBF-47B8-8413-4FC12E1C932B@icloud.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20131231064805.01e83df8@comcast.net>
	<CAFja7Fb-jxy945uT0rpZAcX0bsxwyxUeUFR7i3OcMFqvUWjeYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJRi1=tN8v9n8Ws5b4KNCnCFMKBkRxugyN1prCbEnEYh=FMyA@mail.gmail.com>

If you have a BrailleNote APex or a Braille Sence U2, you can also
connect it to the iPad or iPhone using bluetooth and use it as a
bluetooth keyboard and braille display.  That way, you can even mute
Voiceover and read what your phone is saying on the display.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Last I checked there was a Dragon Dictate app for the IPhone in the
> app store.  It did a slightly better job than the IOS dictation, but
> it wasn't considerable enough for me to really say it was great for a
> long note.  It worked fine for writing quick emails and the like.
>
> If you're just looking to get stuff written down faster than you could
> using the on-screen keyboard, how about looking into an external case
> for your phone with a qwerty keyboard?  I had one that connected via
> bluetooth and it can save a lot of time.  AT Guys usually has them for
> a pretty good price if you're interested.
>
> On 12/31/13, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Good jorning, Don't forget mr. Victor Stream whose Mic is quite
>> good.. if looking for a relitavely low-tech way.
>> for today, Car
>>
>> /2013, Mikayla Gephart wrote:
>>>I also like the Victor Reader Stream, but that is not an IPhone app.
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Joe <jsoro620 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > You could also use an Olympus recorder to capture a clear recording.
>>> > Smartphones are great but not necessarily equipped with the best
>>> > microphones. Then I think, though you'd have to check me on this, you
>>> > could
>>> > use something like Dragon to convert the audio to text. It's an
>>> > expensive
>>> > suggestion, but I don't think you'll find an app to do exactly what
>>> > you're
>>> > looking for. If there is such a thing, by all means let us in on it.
>>> >
>>> > Joe
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>> >
>>> > Visit my blog:
>>> > http://joeorozco.com/blog
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
>>> > Hudson
>>> > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 2:01 PM
>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Note taking
>>> >
>>> > Hello Bobby, you can do that would just about any app, my pages
>>> or the notes
>>> > app on the iPhone but it won't pick up voices that are very far away
>>> > and
>>> > if
>>> > it does it's definitely going to probably typed the wrong thing. And
>>> > you
>>> > will have to restart dictation, about every minute to 30 seconds.
>>> >
>>> > Joseph Hudson
>>> > Email
>>> > jhud7789 at yahoo.com Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> >> On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Bobbi Pompey <pompey2010 at yahoo.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hello,
>>> >>
>>> >> Does anyone know of any good iPhone or iPad apps for dictating? I
>>> >> would
>>> > like to try an app that could possibly write everything said during a
>>> > lecture, meeting, seminar, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks!
>>> >>
>>> >> Bobbi A. L. Pompey
>>> >> (336) 988-6375
>>> >> pompey2010 at yahoo.com
>>> >> http://pompey2050.wix.com/bobbi-pompey
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 21:28:15 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:28:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <CAMJRi1mGUhVZaH7NSXBmqt3Msfq1Kke+PLcVPamp5BY7jTDFig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl>	<BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl>	<CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl>	<CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>	<CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAMtP_9dj9fB8imr+gT-x5xM5kvZts73Wct64xabEY0Mas7=i+w@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU172-DS8509FE39AB3416E04D375F5C90@phx.gbl>
	<CAMJRi1mGUhVZaH7NSXBmqt3Msfq1Kke+PLcVPamp5BY7jTDFig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000801cf066f$37a17b60$a6e47220$@gmail.com>

Ryan,

What is your Skype name? If you wouldn't mind, I would like to keep in touch with you regarding Dropbox.

Thanks,

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 4:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Either one will work.  Control S is usually the easiest as it generally puts you right in My Documents and you don't have to worry about the possibility of maybe being in some other directory, but if you know how to do it using F12, go for it.  Since Dropbox is not a drive or separate route directory, but rather is located within Documents, either way would be fine.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey! Elif, this is Helga. How do yu share a folder with the iPhone? 
> Just curious! Could yu tell me how to do that? Just curius! I'm not 
> really so sure! Thanks and God bless!! :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elif Emir
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> for sharing folders Iphone is good but for sharing links maybe PC is 
> better for me because I don't lıke typing on Iphone and don't know how 
> to paste the lınk ın an e-mail.
> You can try and find yor own way.
>
> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>> Hi Helga,
>>
>> What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If 
>> it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still 
>> using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but 
>> let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I 
>> used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these 
>> instructions are clear enough.
>>
>> 1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
>> 2. Name your file.
>> 3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
>> 4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing 
>> the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
>> and press enter.
>> 5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within 
>> dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
>> 6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0 
>> items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in 
>> dropbox.
>>
>> Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need 
>> more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in 
>>> Word into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would 
>>> like to save the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know 
>>> how todo it.
>>> Thanks
>>> and God bless!!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>
>>> Hi Helga,
>>>
>>> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the 
>>> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, 
>>> type your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox 
>>> folder and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it 
>>> saved.  If you need more help with saving to folders, I would be 
>>> more than happy to give more detailed instructions.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to 
>>>> create a new document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just 
>>>> start Microsoft word on the computer and then I copy and paste it 
>>>> into the Dropbox foldder?
>>>> Just
>>>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just 
>>>> curious!
>>>> I
>>>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that 
>>>> I downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use 
>>>> it in order to write my papers for school. I actually know how to 
>>>> save it as a word document, and then send it to my email. But I 
>>>> just wanted to ask you, how do I save a document that I started 
>>>> writing on the pages app into the Dropbox folder app on my iPhone 
>>>> in order to continue working on it at home?
>>>> Just
>>>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really 
>>>> appreciate it a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions 
>>>> regarding this questions.
>>>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>>>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ryan Silveira
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari 
>>>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it 
>>>> may not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the 
>>>> iPhone and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing I don't do any rar I 
>>>>> fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so 
>>>>> no need to rar anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is 
>>>>>> a little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with 
>>>>>> Voiceover, but of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  
>>>>>> Otherwise, it really is not accessible.  Helga, if you would like 
>>>>>> furhter, one-on-one help with setting up your dropbox and 
>>>>>> figuring it out, feel free to e-mail me off-list.  I would be 
>>>>>> happy to help you and, if necessary, we can do a little skype 
>>>>>> session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't remember if 
>>>>>> this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a folder 
>>>>>> by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to 
>>>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share 
>>>>>> the link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder 
>>>>>> into a ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  
>>>>>> It can be extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  
>>>>>> Happy new year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder 
>>>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new 
>>>>>>> folders or documents in it and also copy or cut something and 
>>>>>>> paste there.
>>>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, 
>>>>>>> you'll see it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and 
>>>>>>> vice versa.
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would 
>>>>>>> like to share with somebody. Press application button and find  
>>>>>>> :share dropbox link" and press enter Now the link has been 
>>>>>>> copied on your clipboard and ready to paste anywhere you want. 
>>>>>>> You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it everyone 
>>>>>>> regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open this 
>>>>>>> link and get the item.
>>>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time 
>>>>>>> you'll go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder 
>>>>>>> options. This is not a link but opens with enter like a link. 
>>>>>>> You'll find here the sharing info here and invite more people. 
>>>>>>> Click here and write the e-mail address there. Finally you need 
>>>>>>> to press "send invites"
>>>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and 
>>>>>>> internet explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. 
>>>>>>> It's an accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an 
>>>>>>> item in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project 
>>>>>>> it's very nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on 
>>>>>>> the document and others instantly would see. Be careful, if you 
>>>>>>> delete an item, it would disappear from everybody's folders. To 
>>>>>>> be able to share a folder like this, others should have a 
>>>>>>> dropbox account. They can open it when you send a sharing  
>>>>>>> invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on your dropbox 
>>>>>>> account.
>>>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please 
>>>>>>> share with me.
>>>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>>>> Elif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, 
>>>>>>>>> does anyone here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? 
>>>>>>>>> I actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the 
>>>>>>>>> Dropbox app into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though 
>>>>>>>>> they give me a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but 
>>>>>>>>> if yu could, would it be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps 
>>>>>>>>> in how could I start using it for colege assignments and 
>>>>>>>>> keeping and putting papers on there? I will really appreciate 
>>>>>>>>> it a lot, if you could help me and give me some suggestions 
>>>>>>>>> regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schr
>>>>>>>>> eiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40
>>>>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> ira%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveir
>>>>> a%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber
>>>> %40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> 40hotmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>> nabs-l:
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>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Ryan L. Silveira

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 31 22:25:17 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:25:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS19E179DF55E417216FC3BBF5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9ciLt=ZWAR=3qoKh_TL=tgOwfmpQwPtBhStYi5TWzsn1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS19E179DF55E417216FC3BBF5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4119E091D2024E5A9B01C2FFEFF0F6CF@OwnerPC>

can you use drop box with a windows pc?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Elif, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, Do yu think is easier to
share folders, documents, and links from the iPhone, rather than from the
computer? If it is, could you tell me how to do it? Thanks and God bless!!
:)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Elif Emir
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

I have just trıed and it worked.
firstly You need to open the document whether it's a word document or
a picture or a folder. Then the share button on the tup gets
activated.
you can share via e-mail twitter facebook or text
I used e-mail and it worked
Thanks I'll put the folder on my PC and share it on my Iphone
I liked this idea
Thanks again for sharing


2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 31 22:35:32 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:35:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <16744DE02AAC44B99F3DE4FD1AA16257@OwnerPC>

Helga,
I would think you would save the file into that folder like any other file 
you save on the pc.
Just shift tab til you get to the areawhere it has the location of your 
saved files; to change it, press down arrow, then enter.

If this is wrong, well it won't work. it seems to me though that based on 
what others said, you simply put files in the folder as you would another 
file.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to save
the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it. Thanks
and God bless!!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Helga,

You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
give more detailed instructions.

Ryan

On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a new
> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word 
> on
> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious! 
> I
> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in 
> order
> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how 
> do
> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the Dropbox
> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate 
> it
> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>> I don't do any rar
>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>> need to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>> me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox app
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Dec 31 22:36:01 2013
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:36:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <4119E091D2024E5A9B01C2FFEFF0F6CF@OwnerPC>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9ciLt=ZWAR=3qoKh_TL=tgOwfmpQwPtBhStYi5TWzsn1A@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU172-DS19E179DF55E417216FC3BBF5C90@phx.gbl>
	<4119E091D2024E5A9B01C2FFEFF0F6CF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <001801cf0678$aee61470$0cb23d50$@gmail.com>

Ashley,

Yes you can. You can find the program download file at www.dropbox.com.

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

can you use drop box with a windows pc?

-----Original Message-----
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Elif, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, Do yu think is easier to
share folders, documents, and links from the iPhone, rather than from the
computer? If it is, could you tell me how to do it? Thanks and God bless!!
:)

-----Original Message-----
From: Elif Emir
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

I have just trıed and it worked.
firstly You need to open the document whether it's a word document or a
picture or a folder. Then the share button on the tup gets activated.
you can share via e-mail twitter facebook or text I used e-mail and it
worked Thanks I'll put the folder on my PC and share it on my Iphone I liked
this idea Thanks again for sharing


2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari 
> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may 
> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone 
> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>
> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing I don't do any rar I fırst 
>> share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no need 
>> to rar anything.
>>
>>
>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a 
>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, 
>>> but of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it 
>>> really is not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, 
>>> one-on-one help with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, 
>>> feel free to e-mail me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, 
>>> if necessary, we can do a little skype session so I can talk you 
>>> through it.  Also, I can't remember if this is changed, but when you 
>>> are sharing a file within a folder by clicking that "share dropbox 
>>> link" option, the file needs to be in the "Public" folder of your 
>>> dropbox.  If you want to share the link to a whole folder, you will 
>>> need to compress that folder into a ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) 
>>> archive so that it's one file.  It can be extracted by the other 
>>> person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new year.
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder 
>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new 
>>>> folders or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste
there.
>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll 
>>>> see it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice 
>>>> versa. This is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would 
>>>> like to share with somebody. Press application button and find  
>>>> :share dropbox link" and press enter Now the link has been copied 
>>>> on your clipboard and ready to paste anywhere you want. You can 
>>>> simply paste it in an e-mail and share it everyone regardless of 
>>>> their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open this link and get the 
>>>> item.
>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time 
>>>> you'll go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. 
>>>> This is not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find 
>>>> here the sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and 
>>>> write the e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send
invites"
>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and 
>>>> internet explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's 
>>>> an accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an 
>>>> item in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's 
>>>> very nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the 
>>>> document and others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete 
>>>> an item, it would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to 
>>>> share a folder like this, others should have a dropbox account. 
>>>> They can open it when you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so 
>>>> you'll get extra space on your dropbox account.
>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share 
>>>> with me.
>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>> Elif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, 
>>>>>> does anyone here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I 
>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox 
>>>>>> app into
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though 
>>>>>> they give me a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if 
>>>>>> yu could, would it be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in 
>>>>>> how could I start using it for colege assignments and keeping and 
>>>>>> putting papers on there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if 
>>>>>> you could help me and give me some suggestions regarding this. 
>>>>>> Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreib
>>>>>> er%40hotmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ryan.l.silveira%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.c
> om
>

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om



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 31 22:41:13 2013
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:41:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-DS96D35383E5EC294F947E8F5C90@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU172-DS1398F2473B80F1A26E0652F5C90@phx.gbl><BLU403-EAS14E8B753E81DA0A58BB2FEF5C90@phx.gbl><CAMtP_9e+LXSTCnCfsvQue5ho9NyEBXX9cpvUdQTD3wO7=E59_w@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1nXE5RYwr2xM6hYobQ1DOg+mGC-or07Trrg5Q9PWunx7g@mail.gmail.com><CAMtP_9c0wkF+fqyg8dvOfsb8Ty6QL_L8F+x5iyktRf5xOx3=OQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJRi1ms_peqvcwGHbVxRh7gF-VmdT3K3B6bLsRuDBte196xcA@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS9E7B25D0DDA8551FB7696F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1m3jPxpSBB_mn8O1XOduq_HiU1iw8H=kZiTLRvOUAdAWQ@mail.gmail.com><BLU172-DS14DE594BB0009CC23CF620F5C90@phx.gbl><CAMJRi1kD65FED+da6TO=52eqUUtEwVzAiW-P30EwBfqcGXE7RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU172-DS96D35383E5EC294F947E8F5C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <89E2C76F508246FFBF39072D45098477@OwnerPC>

Helga,
The command control s works fine; f 12 is the save as command which saves 
your file as another file than your original document if you changed names.
I think you should just save it in your drop box folder rather than copying 
and pasting.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Helga Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hey! Ryan, I press control S after writing the document right? Or do I press
f12 in order to save it? Do yu think would it be easier pressing f12 in
order to save it in Documents, then open documents and then find the file
you have save, and then copy it and then paste it to Dropbox? Just curious!,
since I always do that whenever I save a document and want to copy it into a
Drive. I will really appreciate it alot , if yu could give me some
suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!! :)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Silveira
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox

Hi Helga,

What version of Microsoft Office (Microsoft Word) are you using?  If
it's 2007 or higher, these instructions will work.  If you're still
using 2003, let me know and I will give you those instructions, but
let's assume you're using 2007 or higher.  I'll tell you the way I
used to teach it when I taught assistive technology.  Hopefully these
instructions are clear enough.

1. press Control + S to open the "Save" dialogue.
2. Name your file.
3. Shift tab twice until you hear JAWS say "List View."
4. Navigate using the arrow keys or first-letter navigation (typing
the first letter of the folder name) to the folder called "Dropbox"
and press enter.
5. Navigate the same way to whichever folder you have created within
dropbox wherein you want your file to be saved and press enter.
6. Once in that folder (if it's empty, JAWS will say, "List view, 0
items", press alt S.  That will save the document in that folder in
dropbox.

Again, I'd be happy to get with you on skype or something if you need
more in-depth assistance.  Hope this helps.

Ryan


On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ryan, this is Helga. How do I save a document after writing it in Word
> into the Dropbox ffolder, or other types of foldrs that I would like to 
> save
> the document on the Dropbox folder? I really don't know how todo it. 
> Thanks
> and God bless!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Silveira
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 3:14 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>
> Hi Helga,
>
> You do not need to copy and paste the document from Word into the
> folder.  In order to put a document in dropbox, just start Word, type
> your document and save it.  When saving, save it in the dropbox folder
> and then in whichever folder within dropbox you want it saved.  If you
> need more help with saving to folders, I would be more than happy to
> give more detailed instructions.
>
> Ryan
>
> On 12/31/13, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi guys, this is Helga! I just wanted to ask you, in order to create a 
>> new
>> document in order to put it into Dropbox, do I just start Microsoft word
>> on
>> the computer and then I copy and paste it into the Dropbox foldder? Just
>> wondering. Also, how do yu create a folder inside a folder? Just curious!
>> I
>> actually forgot how to do it! Also, I just wanted to tell you that I
>> downloaded the pages app into my iPhone, and I will like to use it in
>> order
>> to write my papers for school. I actually know how to save it as a word
>> document, and then send it to my email. But I just wanted to ask you, how
>> do
>> I save a document that I started writing on the pages app into the 
>> Dropbox
>> folder app on my iPhone in order to continue working on it at home? Just
>> curious! Do you think is there a way to do that? I will really appreciate
>> it
>> a lot!, if yu could give me some suggestions regarding this questions.
>> Thanks so much and God bbless!! :)
>> P.S. Sorry for asking you all these questions! Thanks again! ;)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ryan Silveira
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:35 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: How to use Dropbox
>>
>> Not sure if you can share on an iPhone.  I was referring to Safari
>> while on a desktop or laptop using voiceover, so unfortunately it may
>> not work for you, since you don't have a mac.  Try it with the iPhone
>> and see what happens though.  I'm curious to see if it will work.
>>
>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks I wil try on I phone while sharing
>>> I don't do any rar
>>> I fırst share an empty folder then start puttıng ıtems ın ıt and so no
>>> need to rar anything.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/12/31, Ryan Silveira <ryan.l.silveira at gmail.com>:
>>>> Those are great instructions, Elif.  That dropbox share button is a
>>>> little tricky.  It seems to work well using Safari with Voiceover, but
>>>> of course, you would need a Mac to use that.  Otherwise, it really is
>>>> not accessible.  Helga, if you would like furhter, one-on-one help
>>>> with setting up your dropbox and figuring it out, feel free to e-mail
>>>> me off-list.  I would be happy to help you and, if necessary, we can
>>>> do a little skype session so I can talk you through it.  Also, I can't
>>>> remember if this is changed, but when you are sharing a file within a
>>>> folder by clicking that "share dropbox link" option, the file needs to
>>>> be in the "Public" folder of your dropbox.  If you want to share the
>>>> link to a whole folder, you will need to compress that folder into a
>>>> ZIP or RAR (preferably ZIP) archive so that it's one file.  It can be
>>>> extracted by the other person later.  Hope this helps.  Happy new
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>> On 12/31/13, Elif Emir <filerime at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Helga,
>>>>> When you install dropbox in your devices you should see a folder
>>>>> called dropbox on your desktop and I phone.
>>>>> You can think this is a regular folder that you can create new folders
>>>>> or documents in it and also copy or cut something and paste there.
>>>>> When you put a new item in your dropbox folder in your PC, you'll see
>>>>> it on your I phone dropbox folder automatically, and vice versa. This
>>>>> is a kind of personal storage area.
>>>>> Then go to your dropbox folder and select an item that you would like
>>>>> to share with somebody. Press application button and find  :share
>>>>> dropbox link" and press enter
>>>>> Now the link has been copied on your clipboard and ready to paste
>>>>> anywhere you want. You can simply paste it in an e-mail and share it
>>>>> everyone regardless of their dropbox memberships. Everyone can open
>>>>> this link and get the item.
>>>>> The second sharing option is again starting with application button.
>>>>> You should find "share this folder" and press enter. This time you'll
>>>>> go to internet page of dropbox. Find shared folder options. This is
>>>>> not a link but opens with enter like a link. You'll find here the
>>>>> sharing info here and invite more people. Click here and write the
>>>>> e-mail address there. Finally you need to press "send invites"
>>>>> Button. However, I couldn't manage to do that with jaws and internet
>>>>> explorer. I ask someone sighted to press the button. It's an
>>>>> accessibility issue or my problem.
>>>>> Anyway if you have a shared folder with others, when you put an item
>>>>> in it, everyone will see it. While doing a group project it's very
>>>>> nice to use this way. Everybody can make changes on the document and
>>>>> others instantly would see. Be careful, if you delete an item, it
>>>>> would disappear from everybody's folders. To be able to share a folder
>>>>> like this, others should have a dropbox account. They can open it when
>>>>> you send a sharing  invitation. By doing so you'll get extra space on
>>>>> your dropbox account.
>>>>> If you have any more questions, please ask me.
>>>>> And if anybody can press the send invitation button, please share with
>>>>> me.
>>>>> Happy new year for everybody.
>>>>> Elif
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/30, Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Helga Schreiber" <helga.schreiber at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: December 30, 2013 at 10:52:12 PM EST
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to use Dropbox
>>>>>>> Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all, this is Helga! How are you? I just wanted to ask you, does
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>> here know how to use Dropbox very well for school? I
>>>>>>> actually install Dropbox in my computer, and download the Dropbox 
>>>>>>> app
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my iPhone 5, but I really don't know how to use it even though they
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> a started guide. And I don't know if you can, but if yu could, would
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> possible for you to give me a lesson or telling me some steps in how
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> start using it for colege assignments and keeping and putting papers
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> there? I will really appreciate it a lot, if you could help me and
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> some suggestions regarding this. Thanks and God bless!!
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Ryan L. Silveira
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Ryan L. Silveira
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Ryan L. Silveira

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