[nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Sun Dec 8 22:00:07 UTC 2013

As always I think we need a balanced approach. It is correct that
people will often judge all blind people based  on their encounter
with one of us. However, worrying too much about the example you are
setting for all blind people can be unhealthy and counter-productive.
While I try to set a good example whenever I can, I also recognize
that I can't always control the example I am setting nor can I control
how others interpret it or what conclusions they draw from my
behavior. For example, I might insist on walking around the airport
independently, and some people may interpret that positively whereas
others may think I am trying too hard to prove my independence. As
human beings we often find ourselves with limited patience and
tolerance to respond to every question or comment that is thrown at
us. I try to set the best example possible while also trying not to
worry too much about how I am acting.

Arielle

On 12/8/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow I am totally blind, and have therefore never had to deal with this
> particular situation, I feel very similarly conflicted about my obligation
> to educate the public. On the one hand, as Katie said, it just comes with
> the territory of being blind/legally blind/whatever. I recognize that, no
> matter what, I am an ambassador for the whole blind community and someways
> because, As ridiculous as this is, many people will base their entire
> conception of blind people in general around me because I am the only blind
> person they have ever met, and of course this will completely shake the way
> these people treat other blind people in the future. Also, again going back
> to Katie, A lot of people just don't know any better at first but, given
> patients and a little bit of time, they start to understand that blindness
> isn't really even close to the life – defining disaster they originally
> assumed it was. However, I also have the right to live my life as I damn
> well see fit, and that means I don't always have the time or energy or
> desire to answer the same questions over and over again at nausium for
> people who will probably never get over there preconceived notions of my
> inferiority anyhow. There comes a point where you just want to live your
> life without being constantly interrupted and distracted from doing what you
> are trying to do… and of course The point at which this happens it's up to
> each individual person. It seems to be a very fine balancing act and I'll be
> totally honest and say I haven't quite gotten the hang of it yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Another thing I thought of when I read Suzanne's last response... I
>> mentioned this in my first email, but I think it deserves a little
>> more emphasis.
>>
>> The bottom line is that as blind people we are a minority.  I think
>> sometimes, especially if you're a person who hangs around with other
>> blind people and/or people who know you or another blind person a lot
>> then we forget how clueless others can be.  My roommates wouldn't
>> think of asking another blind person how they cook, clean, use a cane,
>> or read braille because they see me do it on a daily basis.  Our
>> parents and friends would most likely not either.  But for those who
>> do not know a single person who is blind they just don't know, and
>> sometimes in order to let them know we have to educate a little bit.
>>
>> Example: One of my roommates and I met because we took an intro to
>> philosophy class in our first semester.  Our professor was a total
>> jerk, and liked to say rude things about people in the class... the
>> Chinese students, a Muslum student, a random girl who didn't appear to
>> have a minority issue for him to pick on at all, and me.  What he
>> liked to do, it seemed, was ask questions to students and belittle
>> them, like asking the Islamic student if he had a similar concept of
>> God to Christians.  When the student said his religion was really
>> parallel to Christianity, and that his book was a lot like the bible
>> with some extra material and different phrasing, the professor laughed
>> in his face.  He asked me a stupid question about a mirror and did the
>> same kind of thing one day, and my then roommate stopped me after
>> class to tell me I should report the professor, since he was being
>> totally out of line.  We then went on to study together, and found we
>> had some other classes together and lived on the same floor of our
>> dorm.  Early on she did ask some questions about things like JAWS,
>> braille, etc, and had I not been willing to answer her questions and
>> educate her a little, I would have most likely pushed her away and not
>> gained one of my closest friends.  She was still a stranger to me in
>> the beginning, but sometimes you have to be open to answering
>> questions.
>>
>> My roommates have both asked questions, and both have come to the
>> understanding that I am just as capable in school and in life as they
>> are.  The only real difference is I do some things differently, and
>> now that they understand that it is no big deal.  Other minority
>> groups have the same issue; deaf people educate about sign language
>> and deaf culture, wheelchair users have to go to bat for ramps and
>> elivators to make buildings accessible, etc.  It's just part of the
>> territory, but things are a lot harder if we don't educate a
>> little---harder than they really need to be.  If someone is a creep or
>> is too abrasive then the choice to educate is up to you, but when the
>> question is harmless and the person is just curious a little
>> explanation isn't that hard to give.
>>
>>> On 12/8/13, Suzanne Germano <sgermano at asu.edu> wrote:
>>> Why are you assuming we haven't had these experiences just because of our
>>> answers? I said I usually don't mind answering so obviously I get these
>>> questions. My experience has been far worse then questions. I spent my
>>> entire childhood being teased or rude comments about my vision so frankly
>>> I
>>> would rather have someone ask me a question then have a bus driver kick
>>> me
>>> off the bus because he did not believe I was blind and thought my guide
>>> dog
>>> was fake because I help by hand up to my face to see my coins before I
>>> paid. Or all the shit I heard when I used a cane "You're not blind"
>>>
>>> No, I would much rather have someone ask about my vision.
>>>
>>> You say you don't want to educate people. Well, maybe if they were
>>> educated
>>> by someone then they wouldn't have asked you.
>>>
>>> When I get the comment "Maybe you should buy some glasses" or "Can/t you
>>> afford glasses" or "Are you on drugs" I have no problem saying I am
>>> legally
>>> blind and it cannot be corrected with glasses and maybe they won't be
>>> such
>>> an ass to the next person they see with a book right up against their
>>> face.
>>> I get the drug one because I squint.
>>>
>>> The more that people understand about the different levels of blindness
>>> and
>>> how we can all do things with our accommodations, the more likely they
>>> will
>>> be to hire us when we apply for jobs. So yes, unfortunately it falls upon
>>> us to educate people.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>> <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Steve and all,
>>>>
>>>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>>>> questions
>>>> more to this email list.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>>>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>>>> rather
>>>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions
>>>> and
>>>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>>>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>>>> street
>>>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>>>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>>>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>>>> eyesight to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has,
>>>> the
>>>> more likely a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one
>>>> was
>>>> not mentioned in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing
>>>> my
>>>> arm thinking I am in need of assistance when I am just going about the
>>>> normal business of my life. I just never really know what to say to
>>>> these
>>>> people in some two second interaction with them to be able to fully
>>>> answer
>>>> their curiosity, or to get them to leave me alone.
>>>>
>>>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>>>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>>>> based on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though
>>>> most people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions
>>>> in
>>>> their lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being
>>>> legally
>>>> blind and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I
>>>> could go about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like
>>>> some stupid fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not
>>>> know
>>>> what to say. I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to
>>>> pose my question.
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>>>
>>>> Elizabeth,
>>>>>
>>>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in
>>>>> the
>>>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>>>> completely
>>>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>>>> even know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more
>>>>> trouble
>>>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>>>> off
>>>>> one is.  What
>>>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>>>> than it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>>>> struggle with the
>>>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>>>> ways.
>>>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>>>> they
>>>>> meet
>>>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a
>>>>> little
>>>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>>>> we
>>>>> try to
>>>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>>>
>>>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>>>> determine.
>>>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>>>> some
>>>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>>>> the
>>>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>>>> determines
>>>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer
>>>>>>> myself?
>>>>>>> Why
>>>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted
>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>>>> give a
>>>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>>>> day,
>>>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
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>>
>> --
>> Kaiti
>>
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